244 – Energy Transition (feat. Jean-Baptiste Fressoz)

In honor of cookie week, your co-hosts tackle an age-old question: are brownies cookies are not? Then we process the fact that next month will be the 10th anniversary of Cultures of Energy (wow!) Thereafter (11:51) we welcome the terrific Jean-Baptiste Fressoz to the podcast to discuss his provocative and fascinating new book More and More and More: An All-Consuming History of Energy (Penguin, 2025) and its core argument that "energy transition" is a fiction. We begin with JB's unease with the dominant historiography of energy and its tendency to focus on change rather than accumulation and move from there to his idea to write a history of energy that forefronted the symbiosis of energy and materials. We turn from there to the idea of energy amputation, how to avoid stage-ist thinking, why escaping carbon will be harder than escaping capitalism, and how the technocratic movement of the early 20th century and atomic science paved the way toward dominant narratives of energy transition and energy futures today. JB explains why he doubts—even as someone who sides with the climate movement—that we're going to escape fossil fuels any time soon. PS If you would like to send in a memory or reflection for our 10th anniversary podcast next month, please email or Wetransfer a 3-5 minute audio file to [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you!!