Hi, welcome to classical stuff. You should know a podcast about the classical world old books ideas, which is what Thomas says every now And then do you make fun of me? I'm not just saying like no idea the rest of the podcast. Yeah, yeah Is everything about ideas?
I mean yeah, I mean about ideas. Yeah like philosophy. What is but I mean? I'm gonna talk about a thing from about a hundred years ago.
Okay, and so we talk about old books ideas All things and some time. Oh, my name is Role with my name is I am I am not talking about ideas every time we me and we me and I'm wondering if we should I'm Regulately joined by with by AJ Hanabur. He's mailing his intro. It's a much hostile issue.
What's happening? And I was talking about it Like what's going on and sometimes our episodes are combative. Yeah, and we talk about the Mongol hordes. Yes riding off and Taking camps like literally combative literally combative and taking and stealing people and you know another time to you Where the combat development is that on the fair and wife named board?
Yeah, and then sometimes we do episodes about like legions of small adorable creatures Who also are pillaging your vegetable garden? Yes, this is true and so Thomas it looks like you've got a Beatrix Potter book in front of us I'm often wondering maybe you can elucidate me on this. Okay, was that a typo on her birth certificate or is that her name actually Beatrix? I always thought I was supposed to be like Beatrix.
Yeah, I was a mistake. I know it's a cool name. It's a cool name. It's rich.
It sounds like a witch It sounds hard like it sounds like it sounds like it's true I'm not just gonna grow up to be a witch. Yeah, if you gave your kid Beatrix Yeah, she's like me like a like a finished metal band or witch or witch or or a yoga instructor. Oh, that's rough Yeah, or apparently a children's book author. Well and the other things she also was in a finished death metal band Yeah, we'll get to that part.
I thought your series for a second. I don't know There's that one finished up metal band where's dead fish. Yeah, they go hard sometimes never The fans love their death is a finish or was that an order? I'll get the bottom.
Yeah, Thomas. Take away. Cool. Thanks on that charming note Yeah, this is quite again for you listener.
This will be separate weeks But for us, we've literally just finished the gingus con up is pudding now. We're going straight into a little bit for us But yeah, I you know, I I mentioned that you know, we just had our third son and you know, he's two months old and you know I think I've maybe done a couple episodes in that time But it's mostly been Graham and AJ working on their episodes in these last two months So, you know, I did I did use a little bit of AI to help in preparing for today's episode And I think it'll be it'll be seamless like I don't think you are gonna notice that some of the kind of written sections are I related but I just want to like kind of warn the audience that you might just so you know, just like for integrity of the art I just want everyone to know that there's gonna be a little bit of AI kind of Included three I just want to be out front of us emails you sent us what so if you can open your first email, you know Not saying this is a I'm just saying there's a script. We're gonna read this kind of intro to be a tricks Potter And again, you won't notice where that kind of AI portions come up. You know, it's it's in there So everyone see see what we're reading and everyone know that they're hosts.
I'm home. Okay now make sure you just remember your host number Okay, okay, great. So this is our kind of intro on the Beatrix Potter side Welcome dear listeners to another episode of classical stuff. You should know I'm your host Michael joined by my fellow co-hosts Graham and Thomas Today we're diving into the whimsical world of a woman whose imagination knew no bounds Beatrix Potter Ah Beatrix Potter now.
There's a name that conjures up images of mischievous rabbits and charming illustrations But it wasn't a woman behind the beloved tales of Peter Abbott and friends well Thomas Beatrix Potter was born on July 28 1866 in London, England during the Victorian era she spent much of her childhood exploring the countryside and developed a keen interest in nature and animals indeed Michael Potter's fascination with the natural world that her become a skilled artist and illustrator But it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows for her society at the time had its own rigid expectations for women and Beatrix's artistic aspirations We're exactly met with open arms. That's right Graham Despite Despite Persevered artistic talents eventually caught the eye of the publishing world in 1902 She self published a little book titled the tale of Peter Rabbit featuring her own illustrations And well you could say the rest is history the tale of Peter Rabbit was an instant success captivating both children and out alike Beatrix Potter went on to write an illustrator a series of charming and imaginative books Introducing readers to memorable characters like Jemima puddle duck squirrel nutkin and Mrs. Tiggiwinkle But there's more to Beatrix than just her whimsical stories Did you know she was a trailblazer in conservation efforts later in life part of became a dedicated farmer and land preservationist acquiring largest States in the Lake District a true Renaissance woman She was but her father's love for nature wasn't confined wasn't confined to the pages of her books She actively worked to preserve the beauty of the English countryside her legacy extends beyond literature leaving an indelible mark on the world of conservation So there you have it folks Artist storyteller and conservation list who divide defy the conventions of her time her timeless tales continue to enchant generations reminding us that the power of imagination knows no I Michael Turned into Graham indeed Michael So I don't know why people are worried that like hey, I'm gonna take over the world Such a missed opportunity like showing that though that you could have said so the last line was reminding us that the power of imagination knows no bounds But you could have said something like what's the name of the farmer? It's a farmer Brown no not Brown.
It's Why am I not gonna remember this right off the bat McGregor McGregor So you instead of saying that reminding us that the power of imagination knows no boundaries You could say you know farmer McGregor farmer McGregor's fence can't keep out imagination or something like that Or even there like is the power that knows no boundaries or just imagination It's like reminds us of the power of imagination or that imagination knows no boundaries I don't know it seems like it's you know mixing metaphors It does seem like it's the one thing that worries me is that the prompts What would you tell Chachi to do right a background of Beatrix Potter in the style of the podcast classical You should know what I'm worried is that it like is looking at what we talk like and puts that out So like we talk in we do not talk like okay, okay, okay, but very funny joke Who is Michael Michael I don't know where that came from but if you Separate thread I ask it what are the who are the hosts of the podcast classical stuff you should know and they Knows Thomas Graham and AJ but it always misspells Graham's name So does g r a h a m instead of g r a e me so just strange because they must be listening to it as opposed to reading it Or people are writing about it. It could be that we your name doesn't misspelled a decent amount when people write about us So people write about us like reviews and stuff what yeah, like a review spell people say I guess Graham misspelled and I can write bios For some anyway Chachi to be knows that we exist so It's not Do you guys know You Yes, we're gonna talk a little bit about Beatrix Potter, you know, we've already kind of covered all the Incredible I know that was a little true you said the first is there no email like this room doing like this? Sorry, no, I should have done more but yeah, anyway, I did the first one was like this is bold I'm not gonna touch it so be a true water, you know, Peter Rabbit probably the most famous story But obviously many many others do you all have any kind of background with Beatrix Potter Peter Rabbit any of her any of her stories? Yep, my mom read them to me when I was a kid yeah Like you feel you remember them very well I feel like I also got them all confused with a bunch of different kid stories Yeah, I so for example like mr.
McGregor is Peter Rabbit where he like wants to steal carrots and mr. McGregor is really mad at him For the farm makes the fence when he gets Peter Rabbit gets past the fence It's eating a bunch of food sees mr. McGregor gets chased for an extended period of time and then gets away at the end eventually I of course remember being a child being upset with former mr. McGregor for not allowing the rabbit to eat the delicious food Yeah, and now I like I get it.
You're on completely It's like recently I re-watch the movie Ferris Bueller's Day off and now is somebody that works in the school There's a scene where where mr. Rooney is like Grace if we let people like Ferris get away with stuff We'll lose the integrity of like we'll lose the respect of all the students and everyone will be crazy And she's like oh mr. Oh, and but I remember the time you're supposed to hate mr. Rooney because he's trying to like rain on the chill of Ferris and I rewatch up moving I was like mr.
Rooney makes some pretty good points like Ferris makes some bad decisions that day and mr. Rooney is kind of great now mr. Rushing I've gone to Ferris's house, but there's some like mr. Rooney's got some like his some of his his rationale as to why he can't let Ferris get away with this one thing I mean I get it now and when you were young is this the one you live long enough to see yourself become a villain?
Yes, I think you live long enough to become the person you don't want to be a I become mr. Rooney Ed Rooney as I feel Not great Let's have these more these real But looking back they wreck that classic car that's a nice car the bro the windows out like how many thousands of dollars and damages that is Yeah, it's kind of related here. Well, oh Jay I want another hour of Graham doing that over and over again. What's beautiful Sorry to stop ever you know, I think related we may be where magical cocaine fuel time That you know, we may or may not get to actually reading some of Beatrix Potter stories But I do wonder like who is to take your Peter Rabbit example I don't think he's the good guy of that story like I don't think he's meant heroic to be a hero in that story It is a little kid.
I think well say more what do you I just you think you're a little kid is like you the little animals are the people that you like And then the mean farmers and the ones you know, I thought Mr. Gregor was evil. Yeah. I mean he's again chasing after Who chases a rabbit Graham does yeah, I do I would now I'm ready does not my dog off the rabbits I'm just growing on a reaper's on the floor actually.
Yeah, can you grow them inside? We're going on the one that I've got two on the plane right now. Can you try one? No, okay?
I'm terrified for those I put one into a batch chilly the other day. That was barely edible. It was so hot man. Yeah, so hot That's yeah, I got two it's all about right now.
That's pretty nice. You know, you drive the oil Yeah, you don't really notice it right away and then there's a little burn afterwards a little burn Yeah, it's not too bad. I think if I leave in there too long It worse, but right now it's like pretty good. I want to get the point where it can actually spice your food a little bit So the olive oil itself.
Yeah, okay. So yeah, the Beatrice Potter Hey, do you have any history or like a connection to a little bit? I'm a real few of the stories But it's not a deep connection. I think I'm resting bears and for more my speed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah I know that just in thinking about what episodes I'm actually likely to finish over the next few months Like you know what little reading I do at this point is gonna be books that I'm reading with my kids But like my oldest is getting into I'm sure I've talked about this before but he recently made it through Pilgrim progress Which I was surprised at how much he really enjoyed that book. He just started an arneo So he just finished a line which in the wardrobe and really liked that But yeah Beatrice Potter and all these Peter Rabbit stories are ones that have he's been reading for a while now and now my middle child I'm gonna be reading them out loud. Yeah, I just finished reading Voyager the Dawn Shutter out loud to Amanda Yeah, and how was that? She was fast asleep so I liked it It's a little weird at the end of the dawn shutter like walking at the edge of the world and then they've seen the lamb And he turns into Azlan he's like you guys gotta go home Yeah, and I forgot how like woo woo woo Lewis gets when he starts talking about the sort of the Azlan's country and sort of the cosmic edges and all this Didn't we be cheap?
Yeah, he's going. Yes. You've seen the eternal and reep cheap gets a sale into the eternal land I wonder if he's like Elijah. I think yeah, maybe sales live into heaven man.
I love reep cheap. What a glorious mouse So good. He does a pride problem a little bit but Form in the end he's a he just I read the whole series about a year ago and just openly wept so beautiful I'm surprised when y'all haven't done Narnia yet for a series. Yeah, I wish you plant Narnia You've read have you read that?
Oh, yeah someone emailed us about that I think it's gone on because that's connecting each of the books to one of the planets from like the classical conception of the planets That's the whole thing. I'll do it. Yeah, I don't know anything about that anyway, just to talk a little bit about the topic of the episode So he should fodder Born 1866 And you know born and born into a wealthy family raised and kind of a comfortable upbringing Did she defy the expectations of time or whatever they said in there kind of right? So there's some stuff early on so Peter rabbits not published until 19 oh depending on which version you're looking at 1901 or 1902 I believe self-published.
I think self-published is 1901. It is very successful. I think it's picked up in 1902 So you got like 34 years there of like Beatrice Potter's life prior to that So she is selling her own illustrations prior to Peter rabbit becoming a thing before her putting that book together So around 1890 she sells some like rabbit pictures that become Christmas cards. So she has like making an income there which is good.
There's also this whole background of She was very good illustrator. Like that's kind of what she learned early on in life And so she has these really you should look them up like these really neat illustrations of of mushrooms of like Vungus and like they're very detailed very colorful bright. They're like these great Drawings and I haven't looked a lot into this But essentially she wanted those drawings to be incorporated into not just her but like people who worked with her to be incorporated into scientific papers And that was she was not able to present her own scientific findings essentially she had to have there was a man who had to present that For her instead because she wasn't able to present to whatever whatever group it was that would hear the kind of scientific proceedings There's I mean there is that for sure, but I forget which of her mushroom drawings But some are still like used to this day like the level of detail the the the artistry of them is still compelling to this day So, you know, there's a lot that happens prior to the the stories I'll get into but obviously the main thing she's known for is children's literature which comes into play again around the 1900s So I think Graham you were making reference to this So the store the children stories that she writes come from her writing these stories essentially four kids that she knew so growing up Beatrice Potter had a tutor a governess I think is the term for it but like someone who essentially would teach her like lived in the house was like cared for Right, she came from a fancy family Fancy family growing up and then this governess as you know time goes on has a kid and Beatrice Potter starts writing to this kid and that's no Elmore and She she writes the story and I think 1893 is when she writes the story to Noel That's like that is the Peter Rabbit story What will become the Peter Rabbit story, but she just writes it for fun essentially to entertain this kid It kind of goes on her way and then you know seven years later Six seven years later is like hey, can I borrow those those letters? I wrote you can I get those back for a little bit and the kid had kept them gave them back to her and she put a book together of That became the tale of Peter Rabbit She originally didn't I mean if you know anything about about Potter that you know that illustrations are very important to these books and again She did she did those illustrations as well, but she did not do them at first So the first version of Peter Rabbit She it was just the story essentially or that plus black and white drawings But she was encouraged to add these color pictures to them and she finally relented on that and then ends up selling Couple pieces to it first she wants to sell the story with just these black and white drawings no publishers are interested She self publishes herself 500 copies or something like that sells out of those pretty quickly gets the interest of some publishers She adds in these color pictures and then ends up selling 50,000 copies of the book by the end of the year after by the end of 1903 So 1901 self publishes 1902 gets picked up by a bigger publisher 1903 or off to the races.
She's getting the stuff published and Couple ways to take the story from here one is that this kind of launches something for her that We have this one story off the bat which then kind of goes from there into the sequels that come out of Peter Rabbit I guess do you all are there any other stories of hers that you have a fondness for or remember outside of just that? No, I remember as a kid I was confused with frog and toad and that's a very good stories. Yeah So she follows up Peter Rabbit with the tale of Benjamin Bunny so in Peter Rabbit It's the story about Peter Rabbit going into Mr. McGregor's farm stealing some of his fruits and vegetables and then like barely escaping with his life But he loses his clothes in the process his clothes Peter rabbits clothes get put up as a scarecrow and Mr.
McGregor's To warn off future invaders from coming into the into the farm well that the sequel is Benjamin Bunny the cousin of Peter Rabbit breaking back into McGregor's garden to steal back the clothes that he had lost before And so again it's kind of a sequel in the same vein of what Peter Rabbit was in the first place and then following our sequel in sequel in sequel of It's like a vengeance story kind of yes, but much less murder than the con episodes, but the same Same heart about the same heart is the Mongols But oh no not a rabbit I mean you might you might have it's our mean man rabbits are I feel like rabbits are the jerks of the animal kingdom you can't Have the possum mmm. Well the possums just scream at you. I feel like rabbits plot. Yeah.
Oh, that's right. Coon Man, but it's not like these traits are singular like Plot every route I've known I feel like it has some against me. Yeah, yeah This one yeah, but this is probably in between topic right all the rabbits you ever hated But again a couple ways that the story a couple ways of talking through the Beatrice Potter story one is the expansion of this universe of characters again going from Peter to Benjamin to kind of the surrounding families she will eventually move into a town called sorry SAW re why and It's just interesting to read her stories They and she'll say this that these early stories don't have a specific place to them They're kind of an amalgamation of lots of different villages She's seen or people she's known the names of the animals themselves will come from previous pats of hers So there is an actual Peter Rabbit that she had when she was younger But it's more kind of general in these early stories whereas the later ones are actually set in sorry Like she'll be describing the actual town where she lives She has one story the tale of Samuel whiskers that set in hilltop that set in the this house that she buys eventually And so it's just interesting to watch as she develops this kind of more pronounced sense of place as the stories go on I always like it when houses of names. Yeah, it's the you have a name for the land Lopodosa, but I mean that's more of a like I don't know if it's kind of not arrogant But maybe you'll make makas for it But it's more based on the fact that I like the fact that like if you're gonna have a house and you're gonna live there like name it Like hilltop like that's not a big no one spent a lot of time thinking about that's why the top of the hill But it's better than saying like, you know 79 mercantile way or whatever.
Yeah Name our houses name your houses listeners. Yeah, do you name a condo? Yeah, you name a condo, but are they you need something unique about it? You name it Hanenburg Poopy pool over there.
No, no, no You have your grown peppers. You could call it like a pepper view or Or like the peppers are on your balcony, right and your balcony is like a overlook This is what you gotta think this through. Yeah, maybe you've got some beautiful trees in your backyard. We do and so my husband So do all of our neighbors like there's less unique.
That's what's tough is that when you live in like the suburbs and yeah? Everyone's house count is on the same catalog. Let me let me follow this All right, just know just the way you're bringing up there again a couple different directions But just to kind of follow this one thread of the story early on in life She had been to sorry and kind of was impressed by it wanted to move there finally makes that dream happen as she has this financial success That comes out of Peter Rabbit the kind of extended books that she writes as a part of that She'll eventually like I mentioned she buys this house and then we'll live there She kind of she has 10 or 12 years where she's very active in publishing books That's where most of the 23 I think books that she writes like most of them are written in this 10 or 12 year period and then after that She's mostly focused on farming for kind of literary output decreases She got becomes much more interested in kind of the life in this village and then lives there and then passes away in the 1940s I think 43 if I'm remembering right Yeah, so I list to the age of 77 then dies and there's a near sorry and a far sorry There's these two 10s that are right next to each other anyway, I'm in Canada I know it's when ours is like when you've offended somebody really close to us and you're sorry And then when you've offended somebody but they're further away from it. That's a far sorry Yeah, and you're like it's a near sorry.
I'm sorry, but when you've offended somebody far away I was very curious if we're all Canadians come from that was my other I'm sorry. Yeah, because it's even say we're why like even like the inflections. How sorry sounds you know and then at the end of her life She will donate her house in addition to all the land that she has Kind of gathered during her life to the National Trust Just this kind of historical preservation society in England that owns like it's hundreds of thousands of acres in England Do you know much about them reading the Beatrice Potter story the National Trust? It's called the National Trust.
Yeah, so that yeah the National Trust is like the you know the society that that sort of maintains wild English countryside and And they're sort of part and parcel with the National Horticultural Society like they have the NHS that there's like a big It's a big thing in England to try to preserve wilderness throughout England Yeah, I was trying to they own something like 1% of all land in England. Yes, absurd amount And you can become part of the NHS the National Horticultural Society and the National Trust You can become a master at cultivating a certain kind of English plant Yeah, and if you have a certain number of varieties and you have a certain number of them growing at a certain time You can get a national trust. Oh basically like metal like a like certification right and you are keeping the Periwinkle British periwinkle alive or whatever. It's this whole thing.
We don't any I was gonna say we don't have anything like it in the United States I'm sure we have some kind of like American National Horticultural Society, but nothing nearly on the scale of what English have It's really quite cool. It's the more I read this the more I was like this feels like the Graham Donaldson story I'm like, you know, she's doing all this work So that essentially she can go work on a farm and like and focus on kind of again Horticulture and just raising these plants and all that and then I made reference I'm done in children's books. That's it. Well, you know, there's you still got time, right?
I just cook enough of children's book. Are you okay? It's how far long is this about a lighthouse? Yeah, you know, I mean I can tell the plot I mean hopefully no one jacks it I say it's copyrighted right or at least it's not idea.
I don't know can someone else just make a book about a lighthouse whatever If you want to I mean, I'm still I'm still working on it right now It's about a lighthouse who has a crisis and doesn't want to be a lighthouse anymore So he tries a bunch of other things he's gonna try being a stoplight at a intersection He's gonna try being a spotlight in a theater But all the actors are like running across the stage to stay in the spotlight and Getting out of breath and helping their lines and blocking doesn't make any sense It doesn't do that very long. Yeah, at one point He is going to go and lay in a field depressed and everyone thinks it's a music show because of the lights in the sky So a bunch of millennials are gonna come out and sort of like wonder what's happening and lay down next to him and Glastonbury I need to figure out a way to incorporate some kids I think a kid is gonna stumble on the lighthouse and then the feelings of the lighthouse are all gonna be told through the crazy lighthouse keeper Who is old he's lost his wife and his kids his name is what was it? Periods and he has one red woolen sock that he switches foot to foot every day like a benevolent god telling his other foot that it must suffer for The day that's how we grow and the one that gets comfort is like sometimes God brings comfort and then I got so far Oh, good, so a lighthouse that's gonna I'm gonna illustrate it too. I don't know.
I've got some I got some folks that I have in mind for illustrations So it might be illustrated it's it's cooking up to be a little bit longer I think than I had originally thought which is gonna be fun Yeah, so I think all of the feelings of the lighthouse and even the travel of the lighthouse is gonna be like the kids gonna Ask how they get from place to place and the lighthouse. Give me like come on man You know this lighthouse is spin and that's it. Yeah, I'm excited. I'll buy a copy See I guess yeah, I believe but just to kind of put the Wrap up that that side on the conservation piece of it again referenced in our not at all AI generated introduction is that so at the end of her life Beatrix Potter well like yeah when her life ends she she gives four thousand acres of land and countryside to the national trust as well as 14 farms She also gave I believe it's the original illustrations for her what became her books So like the the notes that she wrote or the first versions of the pictures like the original illustrations She also gave those to the national trust whereas the rights for the book went to her publisher which then got acquired this part is not interesting but eventually was acquired by penguin and Actually just a few years ago actually entered the public domain So we just passed a few years ago passed 70 years after Beatrix Potter's death and that's when her books were put into the public domain And this is why you can go on Project Gutenberg and you can look up anyone if you can look up her books There were some that were published posthumously that I think might still be under copyright But like the big ones are up on Project Gutenberg.
You can see the text you can see the images. It's all it's all up there right now So that's the kind of conservation side of things again donated to the national trust if she has any sort of writings about her Like her thoughts on conservation or why she wanted to do it or was she like sort of concerned about the depleting countryside or like Or she's really like farming like does she have? Sort of things that she circulated about conservation that Or was it's more of a like private Concerned of hers like was she sort of in the conservation movement or was she sort of doing this on her own then towards in Her life she donated it's a couple things So the national trust is founded by three people and one of them is a friend of hers who growing up essentially got her the start in publishing So that's Hardwick Ronzley friend of the Potter family He himself was a published author as well. He wrote moral poetry I've tried looking some of it up and maybe I just didn't give it a chance but I chose not to read it for the podcast, but he was the first person who tried to connect her with publishers So she had that connection with him.
He then goes on to found the national trust And so there's that side of it There's like a personal connection and then the other so most of the writing again I'm aware of like right now as we talk is the children's books and then she wrote a ton of letters So her letters get collected and that's where a lot of her kind of thoughts on say conservation would come from so just to read a few quotes For the end of her life Beatrix Potter wrote if I've done anything even a little help small children on the road to enjoy and appreciate honest simple pleasures I've done a bit of good I already mentioned when she died Beatrix Potter I'm reading from Beatrix Potter treasury, which is a great book when she died Beatrix Potter left 4,000 acres of land to the nation She dearly loved the countryside and in her 70s wrote as I lie in bed I can walk step by step on the fells and rough lands seeing every stone and flower where my old legs will never take me again So at least we appreciated the beauty of the man. I'm so soft and she wanted to give that to you 70 Yeah, feels early she died at 77 so not too far before I don't know the I don't know details on exercise important. It is very important But yeah, so I don't know the like the advocacy tribe it but what What she did is she like took her personal wealth put it in she achieved what she wanted to in life She bought the farm she lived in the town she wanted to be in and then gave that away So others could benefit from that and there is now at hilltop. I believe that's where the Beatrix Potter Museum is So a bunch of original illustrations.
Yeah, you can go and see the place where she lived and where many of the stories were set That kind of dovetails with another piece of the story which I think is interesting and I don't know how much we'll actually go into it But Peter Rabbit is like I don't know what's the non-jerk way of saying like big intellectual property or significant intellectual property An interesting fact is that so original Peter Rabbit stories published in Publish broadly in 1902 well Beatrix Potter sees that there's success here and she licenses the first She licenses a Peter Rabbit toy she makes like a stuffed Peter Rabbit toy registers it with the patent office in London And this means that Peter Rabbit is the oldest licensed fictional character So she's like whoo and so we have the Nickelodeon or something she keeps it herself wasn't like a Dracula bobblehead doll before this apparently not or at least not one that is Given to Brahms soaker or whatever like he did not get benefit from it. I think it's what this is getting at If I can find it there was also a if you register the doll the doll was followed the next year by wallpaper And then a Peter Rabbit board game devised by Beatrix Potter herself So there's also something here where like she is capitalizing on it where like she has this great idea She has a hit against sells 50,000 copies and two years out of from nothing right self-publishes to 50,000 Then also expands it into these other products these other kind of toys games things that they can play with that kids can play with and You know Maybe it's because we know where her life ends up that she acquires this wealth and then gives it away for the benefit of people But like there's something really I don't know Satisfying about an artist who benefits from what they create and then they own that product for the duration of their life The picture of the first ever Peter Rabbit doll is terrible. Yeah, so it doesn't look good. Can you see it right here AJ?
Yeah That's gonna freak kids out. That's that's the seven-numbers right there and I think she made them herself. Yeah, soon after those go for a Gajillion dollars for sale just for a thousand British pounds. That's it for an original Peter Rabbit That's made a ton well, this is a circa 1909.
So I mean I'll later yeah Well, maybe so soon after the tale of Peter Rabbit was published you began to make a Peter Rabbit doll quote I am cutting out Calico patterns of Peter I have not got it right yet, but the expression is going to be lovely especially the whiskers pulled out of a brush in quote And then I read the part she registered it in 1903. So I don't really know what to make of it It's something does that rub you the wrong way is I know I think it's awesome like I I think it's a point that you two have probably brought up a dozen times But the picture of the artist as this like miserable life as awful person is at odds with Beatrice Potter who you know wrote her first book in her early 30s So not like it wasn't like she was like young and then got to profit off of it and then lived the life she wanted to Yeah, at the end of her life like she seemed really happy. It's like Mendelssohn It was the same thing you just like round the air when all the composers were like having mental breakdowns and were miserable He's like I love my sister and my family and I'm popular and then I lived a happy life. Yeah It's the Canterbury Tales guy Like he was a wealthy man and a lot's of money.
Yeah, that's a free wine from the king. Yeah, she's here Is that pretty wealthy? Live at this house? It's like Spielberg.
Yeah, I guess like Disney and they can wear their own with it. Yeah, he's trying to like mount a crap I'm not what happened. Yeah, I'm sure you keep probably you can't hear him talk with his like mountain of money I thought I heard that he said when he saw the new three new ones He was like I thought I made these movies before The first one is the same Jedi in the desert finds a droid with plans like are you kidding me? Yeah, it's the same movie Hacles you feel you feel the heckles raisin?
Oh, we left our word. What are you talking about? I don't know the new star words They broke so many rules. This is somehow.
Oh my gosh my word emperor came back. Oh, yeah, everyone's ever really gone Is that actually what I was in the trailer? That was the chair. No one's really gone Yeah, because you can't bring him back for a franchise.
Well, the one that made me just so hacked We can talk about this in between between I'm pushing my hackles down. Okay cool Yeah Is it the back of your neck? Yeah, yeah, the hairs on the back of a dog or other animals neck that rise when it is angry or alarmed Oh, or any does that one sees a snake? Yeah, I'm used to okay So we talked about Beatrix Potter I guess the other part is like the stories are just fun to read we I'm sure if you read a what's popular today or like a just pick up your One random kid's book Nickelodeon's Peter rabbit.
Yeah, well actually that he sassy. I didn't think about that So there's a version of Peter rabbit. He might be a vampire There's like a PBS Peter or a Beatrix Potter series, which is like awesome It's essentially retelling of the stories. It's hand-drawn animation like it's great And then I have not gone much down the path But there are then Peter rabbit versions that are newer kind of computer graphics and it's like totally new stories essentially So, you know, they have to like make it more exciting for I don't know because these days One of us now does Peter rabbit does do the Beatrix Potter stories have some kind of moral attached to the stories or is it just more?
That it's happy. It's like people living simple country lives and it's just charming in that way I will give you all two choices. We to answer that question We can either read a short Beatrix Potter story or we can repeat a rabbit and talk about it We have time for either one you'll have a preference one. I'm gonna send you I actually already sent you one email That says Beatrix Potter to helpfully you're going to ignore that one and go straight to Beatrix Potter 3 So when you click on this one, you will hopefully get to a project Gutenberg website and it'll say the story of a fierce bad rabbit Who did you send this to?
Both of you? I don't think I got two. I got two just now. Oh, that's bad.
Just now. Okay So that's all I'll just search it up. It's on goomburg. Yeah, what is it the story of a fierce bad rabbit?
I think this was also the most riveting part of the Greek comedy podcast was trying to get the links figured. I tried to refresh minutes and there we go Was it finally coming through cute? Yeah, okay, this one's shorter and again by us reading it on the podcast You're missing out on all the pictures. There are some relevant ones toward the end that we might describe I was in Graham.
I think you should read this one. Sure. It's a you know modern morality tale. I suppose so Let's go.
We have AJ describe the photo. Yes, okay I do you up for this on the cover of a book is a plump rabbit sitting on a bench He has a carrot in his mouth and he looks a little overweight and he is sitting there staring straight ahead with someone that looks like they have a gun in the background Yes, okay down to where the book begins This is a fierce bad rabbit look at his savage whiskers and his claws and his turned up tail The picture of his rabbit is of a rabbit that looks not at all savage. He looks like he's running and having an okay time But he looks very alert if this is a nice gentle rabbit his mother has given him a carrot The rabbits it's not a bitch eating a carrot in the background in the background. There's another rabbit The bad rabbit would like some carrot the bad rabbit is now standing on the bench lording over the smaller rabbit Who's clutching his carrot like a child and he seems to be poking the bad rabbit is poking with his claws at the younger rabbit He doesn't say please he takes it Slapping the younger rabbit away who's now on his rump sort of lying on the bench and the bad rabbit is taking a big old Chop out of the carrot and he scratches the good rabbit very badly now They're both off the bench and he seems to be biting and scratching at the other rabbits rump Yes, the good rabbit creeps away and hides in a hole.
It feels sad the rabbit is hiding in a hole feeling sad Look at the background. Oh, there's a oh, there's a bad This is a man with a gun in the foreground is a man with a gun He sees something sitting on a bench. He thinks it is a very funny bird The man with the gun who by the way looks like he's got a sort of a picnic satchel strung across his back There's a little beard nice little hat and some hunting goaches. He sees in the distance a an outline of a rabbit on a bench He comes creeping up behind the trees It's the same picture that's on the front of that plump rabbit eating the carrot looking spaced and a guy in the back of the gun And then he shoots bang the man is shooting his gun looking down the sights.
This is what happens It looks like two ears a tail a carrot and some hairs with no floating in the air But this is all he finds on the bench when he rushes up with his gun It's a little plump tail fluff and a carrot and nothing else the good rabbit peeps out of its hole It's around peeping out of a hole and the man with the gun is running past and it sees the bad rabbit tearing past without any tail or whiskers And there goes the bad rabbit looking frightened with no tail whiskers. This is like a horrifying story I thought the right was completely obliterated. It's supposed to look like the undershoots and then just the absolute So you'll be shocked when I read this to you that this book was intended for very young children She's really a but the rabbit is alive at the end But he's got like red bleary. I've been crying my eyes out eyes as the bad rabbit runs away and the so the bad rabbit has lost his tail and whiskers So he's not really hurt right.
I don't what is very scared clearly, but I survived it So grand your question was do these stories have a morality to them? This one might be a little more straightforward and on the nose, but what's the story here? What's the um an adult is gonna shoot you? No, you should have a bully you get shot.
Um Yeah, don't steal other people's things and be cruel or it's like a karma tail But that wasn't why he got shot like if the good rabbit had just been sitting there longer he'd have no whiskers Okay, there's gonna be a connection with the deed and the punishment because it's only hiding the good rabbits hiding from the bad rabbit But not to get away from the so bully people in the same life. Yeah, that's good. Yep. Yep.
Um, no It's the great karmic justice that if you are bad then that's happened to you. I think that's what it's getting at Yeah, so is there a moral to the story? I think what what is help? What is good is that it's not it does not wrap up with and therefore you should not Put punch your brother and steal his carrot or whatever.
Yeah, it doesn't wrap up that way. It doesn't smell out the moral Yes, that's just telling the story. I just tell the story. It's a funny little story No one's actually hurt in the end even though it my first time reading again As I'm reading through the Beatrice Potter treasury, we're just going through each story We get to this one and I'm like mortified that I've just like told my four-year-old that like a rabbit got shot But you know it all works out in the end And I'd say most of the stories are along that line of it's an entertaining story There is a moral to it.
I'd say like if you're there's clearly a message to get from it But you can also read it at the level of I just like the story Again, we're not gonna read it at this point, but like the Peter Rabbit story It's entertaining on its own that there's kind of a scary adventure Peter Rabbit almost gets caught by mr McGregor But he escapes but he is like exhausted at the end of his day His mother scolds him he had to go to bed cold because he has no clothes anymore Like there is a message in there. There is a morality to the story even if there's not a clear one line at the end Therefore don't be like Peter Rabbit. They don't like turn to the camera and say this is our PSA right now This one specifically came from a maybe maybe this contradicts what I just said We'll see what you all think so I already told you the book was meant for small children It was very specifically written for an editor of Beatrice Potter's daughter So this editor's daughter Louie who had told Beatrice that Peter was too good a rabbit and she wanted a story about a really naughty one So I don't you know this character is intended by Potter to be even worse than Peter Rabbit This is the bully rabbit the one we just got to tell you what I think like Peter Rabbit's a jerk Yeah, I mean AJ did a wonderful job describing it But there's no horror of that picture of him slapping the little guy grilling and gorging himself on that character I know it was a pause. It's very very bad And this is more this is just fun fact this story as you imagine since it was so short The original version it was published in was kind of like a like a wallet essentially where you pull the pictures out in a row but Book like booksellers hated this because the the pictures would like peel off the page as they got folded back and forth and back and forth Um, yeah, the shops This is Beatrice Potter writing the shops since we refused to stalk them these books with the wallet with the pictures unfolding because they got unrolled And we're so bad to roll up again And so then eventually gets reprinted actually as a book But um, there's your fun fact of Beatrice Potter trying lots of different things to see what it actually worked Oh, but uh, there you go like I don't know what else there is for it like just it's my I know my children's lit episode was like a year and a half ago But like the takeaway is always like all these books are up online there You can find every one of them on project Gutenberg which is a resource we talked about before But most any classic we talk about is in the public domain because it's old enough that no one can claim in life for property for it Or claim ownership of it.
Um, so if you're ever looking for a classic project Gutenberg is a great place to look They have all of these Beatrice Potter books and all the illustrations are up on there too And I know in your episode maybe that we did a while ago about children's literature We sort of talked about that question about do children's story writers have an obligation to have Not a happy ending but at least some sort of sense of like um something moral or some sort of sense of um Um, well if they are if these are gonna be stories for impressionable young minds is the is the fact What kind of impression you're going to make even more important or do you just sort of like tell your tell whatever story that you want? Yeah, I'm only talking about another episode of any now that you sort of like So then we're talking about these stories do any further thoughts on on that? Gatedly I don't remember what I said a year and a half ago So I if I repeat all of it our listeners probably either so, uh, yeah I think the story has to be good on its own as well And I think that's something that pottery gets right that whether there's a even like saying that the message of peter rabbit is ambiguous Which I think is fair In the again the sequel to the story the mischievous peter rabbit gets his clothes back like it all works out for him in the end It's like what's he really punished for it or was he like condemned for breaking into someone's Farm and stealing their vegetables and all that stuff. So even if the message is ambiguous there It's a good story and for the Message to matter to a kid in at all it needs to be something entertaining So you need both and this is the not to over-vaunt this but this is like the what what you get with this Union of good true and beautiful like this idea of like you might think of those as three separate ideas But there's actually a unity to all three of those and so if a thing is going to be It is going to have a true message or a good message.
It should also be a beautiful Story in its own right which I think is what pottery gets at that. Um, it is To read it to look at the art it is a piece of it is a work of beauty and then also you pair that with Messages that are good and true but not smallizing. So I think that's what I think that's part of what makes it lasting for 120 years Whatever we're at and I also remember from that episode also mentioning that Violence in a children's story is I wouldn't it's not important, but there is you in the older stories you get the sense that like Shining away from violence like the hunter actually like shooting the bird I can imagine a moderate shooting the rabbit I can imagine a modern story had the hunter like Realizing that hunting was wrong. He put his gun down and realized that once he stopped being a hunter He made more friends in the animal kingdom and everyone was a friend both rabbits Yeah, and you know and then whereas like that's I don't know there's there's something about the Allowing a small amount of scariest and a little bit of amount of violence in the story is a like important part of children stories Let me this is the first page of peter rabbit And I'll just to your point here just like the casualness with which these dark elements are brought in All the characters are introduced and then the mother is saying to the four or four kids Now my dear's settled mrs.
Rabbit one morning you may go into the fields or down the lane But don't go into mr. McGregor's garden your father had an accident there He was put in a pie by mrs. McGregor. Now run along and don't get into mischief.
Like it's very casually like your father was killed by this That was me and turned to a pie. Yeah accident. Yeah, I mean, but they show it's a thing you say to a child Yeah, but they show the picture of the father was baked into that's like in the third picture in this thing It's just like there. It's just like very casually.
Yeah, so yeah, I think that's uh I don't know what the term for that is but like uh, it's like a respect to your audience kind of thing of not trying to hide something and Sarah's reading the secret garden right now. Yeah, and the mom's sick, right? Yeah, I mean the whole is this a spoiler I'm sorry if I'm gonna spoil the secret garden. It's just the most recent part of it The family gets cholera and all dies But the main character is like knocked out like she accidentally gets drunk and like passes out while her family all dies and she wakes up and like is surrounded by death That's like a children's book, right?
So yeah, but that's that's uh, one of those um part of it is maybe people were more They saw death more than they do now and so maybe it was more common part of life Or in this setting if she's writing for people who farm like they see animals die like that's a normal thing And maybe it's not as Traumatizing scary or whatever as it might be today. Um, so I don't know how much of it is People were just accustomed to different things versus you should make sure kids know that that's that death is a real thing I think that's the second one matters too. I was so delicious I mean and this is not that we're living on a farm But we're on the country and I've seen more dead animals in the past two and a half years than I did in the past 15 20 years living in the city Right, so it's the thing. Yeah, so crazy easy cockroaches, but not much else Yeah, you saw scorpions for a long time too, right?
Uh, yeah, no, I'm not anymore. Not downtown I have I've seen there's one cockroach. I think it's living in my closet gross. You should take a bar one get rid of it Yeah, there's no food in there.
No, he's gonna die eventually. Yes, gross. Well, uh, that's been. Yeah, that's the future funner So check it out there.
We read some kids books. Awesome. Well, this has been in classical stuff You should know with Graham Thomas and Michael Michael. Um, you can email us at the guys like clackles classical classical stuff that you can Have to be right as the outro you work on it.
Yeah, um, I got it. Um, so in the meantime I'm doing this if anybody is watching on YouTube, which we probably not because I don't think we've had some people that email is asking us Before we saw a comment or a comment it wouldn't be a problem. Yeah, we're only here behind So if anybody is watching this in YouTube in the future that is not a beer bottle sitting in front of me in a Christian education school It is Virgil's vanilla cream soda. Just wondering.
So I know I'm trying to thank you and I feel gross Yeah, absolutely gross because I have 84% of my like daily recommended amount of sugar Which is probably already like 300% more than that you should have You don't have a lot of sugar to begin with. I do not I definitely don't this is like the first soda I've had in like 15 years and I feel disgusting was it delicious. It was delicious. Okay.
Are there parts with three of us I'm just gonna reply to Beatrix Potter one. Okay. Okay. Let me look for a beer to slaughter Response.
Okay. I want one. Okay. Keep your host numbers.
Well, yeah, I got to wait for it to wait. I'm sure everybody has like stopped I know that's a classical start to the guys that I stuff. Oh, no, well for rule How much I need to log into like I don't have that on my phone. So you guys have to do it.
Oh, I can afford to do it I know your personal is fine. I just want you to announce it everybody. Um, for appreciate it. So uh All right, I'm there.
I'm ready. So which host am I I think your host? Let's see. Uh, you were host two two and then grand host three Okay, just uh, I'm direct refresh.
There we go. All right boys. Okay, let's do this And that concludes our exploration of classical knowledge on today's episode We hope you found the journey through history philosophy of literature as fascinating as we did Remember to hit that subscribe button rate us and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform Your support means the world to us If you enjoy what you hear and want to help us continue bringing you engaging content Consider becoming a patron on our patreon page your contributions enable us to delve into more captivating topics each week Connect with us on social media to stay in the loop follow us on twitter facebook and instagram for additional insights Behind the scene moments and updates about upcoming episodes your feedback and interactions are always appreciated as we wrap up We encourage you to keep exploring classical knowledge whether you're revisiting the classics or venturing into new territories The pursuit of wisdom is a lifelong journey Until next time keep seeking keep learning and keep appreciating the timeless wisdom of the classics Thank you for joining us on classical stuff. You should know It's good