The Joe Rogan experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day What's a microphone if I use this what are you saying some people think the stuff about the roads there online was like You know it's not real. It's a hundred percent real my friend was there no no I so I'm even like words are tough to I have to use your words very carefully. Well, here's the thing will it be available in the general public right? Probably not know how could you use it?
How could you make that legal where you have a car that can fly over other cars if there's a traffic stop? Like I'm trying to I guess what some people are saying it's like you know the I'm on a test model car like it this will not this is the version of your concept car Yeah, well there first of all it probably won't be released anywhere near when they say it's gonna be released just based on what he's done The past I mean the Roadster there's a lot of people that paid two hundred fifty thousand dollars for the Roadster in 2017 I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, I know okay, and like imagine you did that back then and you were expecting that car You got a completely different design. Yeah, I mean a completely different looking car now It has the fucking Lamborghini doors and it flies What this guy's nuts?
I would Mind he's got too much money. He just does whatever the fuck wants. I'm not with you a car It's fake with wires and stuff some people said that there was wires on cranes and I don't know that I'm not buying that No, well there is already a car that does that trick where it can go upside down There's this there's this race car Oh, God, I forget the name of it But it actually has a fan underneath the bottom of the car that acts as a suction and this car does insane lap times Because it's absolutely glued to the ground perfectly handling. Yeah, perfect handling and it's only a one-seater car That's yeah, yeah Watch this thing put it see if you can find it's a it's a hyper yeah, so that's it it goes upside down this thing is literally crazy It it blows away all of the lap times on every single racetrack because first of all It's really light really tiny has insane power because it's all electric and it has so much suction at the bottom that it can go Upside down so they were the first ones to at least demo this type of tech and they did it on this car like this car literally has so much Suction give me some volumes you can hear this so this is a literal suction cup underneath the engine that's allowing this thing to hold This entire body weight, which it's got to be like I would imagine at least close to two thousand pounds Yes, but whatever's one of carbon fiber bodies With the engines and the batteries so if it was a Combustion engine car maybe it could be under two thousand pounds like there's a few porsches like they make some really old like Restomod porsches from like the 1960s and early 1970s that can get under two thousand pounds.
They like there's this guy that worked for God I think he worked for Bugatti or something like that one of those crazy high-tech car companies and he built a car that was completely the opposite He built a car we stripped everything out of it He made like a 1969 Porsche stripped everything out of it made all of the panels fiberglass and he got it to like 1,800 pounds Wow and the idea is like that is like the most visceral driving experience the most connected you are to a car the lighter they are they have you're there They can get really crazy with performance like yeah, my teso is probably four thousand pounds But it just it's like a time machine isn't this I would like seven or eight or something That's even bigger right I have the model s but the cyber truck is all it's all cold stamp steel I think that's the the type of steel the but it's incredibly heavy I ordered one of those when I ended up pulling out I don't regret it. I don't know I just I wanted one I loved I just like the idea of it very seldom that I would look at a car and just smile every time I look at a car And every time I look at that cyber truck I just smiled so I was like I kind of want one of those and then I put the money down My wife was like what are you doing? I want one like I've always been a four guy so I've got like a four tremor which I love that truck and Start putting the money down and then I started hearing like other guys got them and they're like other some issues and bugs being worked Out says a coward and I pulled out I shouldn't have done it, but I did well you can get one now Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they make them better now. I'm sure they figured out over the Kings were any other thing yeah the first generation It's gonna have Kings and happy work out Yeah, there's some issues where people like pulling the panels off and some of the panels were like literally glued on but they fixed all that stuff now So this is the thing in the air honestly though I completely honestly I like the look of the original model better.
I do too. That's I think it look cooler original Roadster It looked more like a modern supercar and that looks more like a Lamborghini It looks like a Lamborghini had a baby with a cyber truck right yeah And they're not even like a new Lamborghini like a Lamborghini from the 90s. Yeah, which are cool like a kuntosh Yeah, it's just like it's like that one is that's like that's that thing sick. That looks amazing That's the I mean, maybe they could redo that I don't know I don't crazy world.
It's these things are weird. It's weird that you can get a car that goes zero to 60 That is gonna be real. It's gonna go zero to sixteen under second. That's fuck.
Well that test that was point eight point nine seconds Yeah, that's crazy. That's like you're gonna liquefy your inside to go you fast. Well, it's half the speed of sound Right. I mean it's a full top speed rather its top speed is half the speed of sound which is just insane I think it's like top speed is over 300 miles an hour What is half the speed of sound was like three 80 or something three sixty that's insane.
That's fucking insane I mean I like going fast, but I don't know if I want to go that far. I like I like going fast, but what I really like is the feeling of a car That's what unless you're a race car driver all the how fast you go is all horseshit They're all fast every car's fast. You know, you know, you want to like the bargain This is like the absolute best cool car bargain. Get up Ford Mustang GT my favorite car of all time And I've been saying this for years and I've never bought one but my sister and her husband used to race Mustangs and he had a 71 Ford Mach one Big back end and he eventually turned it into like what they call a super-com funny car So I became alcohol fuel the only thing that was original was like the back end but everything else got replaced over time It was a funny car essentially, but I've been in love with that car since I was like eight years old Like I just look at that and I think to myself that is like that is muscle car par excellence like it's the perfect Yeah, and those cars aren't the best to drive no hell no that good No, but it's the feeling that you get when you driving them.
It's like you're driving a ride like when my kids were little They still have this one ride at Disneyland. God. What is it called? It's based on the movie cars It's like you get in a car and you're kind of steering and you're going out It's like you're on tracks and you're going like the lightning McQueen car.
Yeah, I forget there's two car rides There's one car ride where you're not steering. You're just in a car It's like a roller coaster and there's a car next to you supposedly racing this one's different this one you get in these little cars You actually do kind of steer them huh and they're they're fun It's not fast like but it's like loud and you feel the steering in the engine like that's what I like I like cars that engage you like they there's a visceral connection There's like there's some sort of a mechanical connection you feel it this episode is brought to you by Squarespace if you're thinking about building a website You should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right Joe Rogan dot com is powered by Squarespace It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI enhanced website builder SEO optimization tools and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links Head to squarespace dot com slash Rogan for a free trial And when you are ready to launch use the offer code Rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain This episode is brought to you by uber eats hockey seasons here and uber eats is delivering game-day deals on favorites like wings Pizza fries and snacks and you can order more than food like gear to rep your team or fresh batteries for the remote When your watch party gets hungry or you just need anything Order in and keep everyone's attention on the ice score great deals on uber eats all season long because hockey is for the hungry Terms apply product availability varies by region see app for details.
That's what I like. Yeah, I did driving courses Well as in military we had like what you would call I guess it was called at the time like a high risk officer pipeline So the I guess like the expectation would be at some point you might be caught or captured So there's all these different courses that they send you through I'm in order to you know Sure, it's like seer school on steroids, but one of the courses was For like a week and a half all you do is learn how to drive like they have Rally car drive instructors come and teach you how to drive and like how to do trail turns and how to You know navigate course and then you do on-road off-road and like they put you in all kinds of crazy scenarios Like at one point they drive you up to a checkpoint and you've got a bag over your head and they put you at the checkpoint And they say all right we're gonna take this bag off when we take the bag off of your head React to the situation like it's an operational scenario that you can employ whatever you need to do like they basically just want to see Under pressure, but it's part of the car course So you're at this checkpoint and you know for me It was you know the guards started freaking out and then they're shooting blanks and stuff and basically they just want to see Because I teach you exactly how to do it like you plant your left foot or you plant your left foot You stand up you get behind yourself and then steer backwards and like how can you navigate a serpentine? In reverse in a car while under fire and get out of a situation There's a lot of fun the courses were a ton of fun and you learn like from the best drivers in the world and Like everything in life you think you have a conception of how these things will be before you get into them It's like golf like I really I got in a golf years ago Cuz I was told I'd suck at it and because I was a rugby player at the time And it was my you know father and I said you're not a golfer You're you're a large blunt instrument like go keep playing rugby and so I was like fuck this guy I'm gonna be as good as golf as I can so you know at first I was trying to lift the ball or I was trying to Overcorrect and prevent a slice by really strengthening my grip It was actually no you got to hit from the inside to the out You got to transfer your weight here You actually if you want the ball to go high you need to hit down on it And it was the same thing with cars If you want to drive fast keep your tires in contact with the road as much as possible use the brake to front load the weight because we're driving Interceptor and Paul is in the course So it's like most of the weights in the front so you want to apply brakes through the corners people think fast and furious It's like the fastest way to drive a car, you know I should say the public consciousness obviously anyone who's ever been around race car driver watches race cars And those you need the wheels in contact with the road as much as possible You you try to draw a straight line through the course and navigate that straight line So if you're cutting corners and stuff like that to keep the cars as straight aligns possible steer as little as possible Don't oversteer like you always see in the movies like people are oversteering like the car It's like no like the guy of the course was like never oversteer If you have to put one hand over the other you're failing feed one hand feed the wheel from one hand to the other and Take a trail turn and if you oversteer you're gonna lose contact with the ground and you're gonna be slower So it was all these opposites. I guess the point is it's a perception.
Yeah, you have a perception going into that This is like a fast like when I get really good at this course I'm gonna be you know What do they call it like in fast in the furious when they're you know taking a really tight corner and their back end swings out and The car is squealing. Yeah, remember the slow drifting drifting drifting like you think like you think You know 25 30 year old me at the time is like this is what I'm gonna be doing by the end of the course like No apply the brake and take the turn correct turn it correctly keep the wheels on the ground Yeah, that's the key is doing the limitations of the car and being able to avoid doing that Yeah, but it's been my kid. It's been the case for me in life anytime. I learned something at a very high level like even with archery like the slower you can pull the trigger on the release and My instinct would be like snap slap it and some people slap it and do fine But for me, it's the same with long distance shooting like when I take a long distance shooting course pull that trigger So you almost can't even anticipate where the where the Where it's gonna fire at what point it's gonna fire like manipulate the play and pull the trigger as low as possible And that will be the most accurate shot you're gonna take if the shot surprises you nine times out of ten It's gonna be more accurate than a shot that you've anticipated right because you're anticipating recoil Yeah, there's there's a caveat to that The caveat to that is there's some very high level archers that win a lot of big tournaments that do what they call command trigger for sure And I think what's going on there is those guys learned how to shoot a surprise shot first And those guys almost all those guys those target guys they use a hinge Yeah, and or at least sometimes these hinge a lot of them use thumb buttons now But they use a thumb button like a hedge and just load it up with back pressure until it goes off Yeah, it's a prize shot But there's there's guys like James Lutz and there's a few of these Kyle Douglas and Tim Gillingham These guys win giant tournaments and they command shoot.
Yeah, so they shoot what they do is they put the pin over there And they know how to stay stable Yeah, and they've done it for so long and they have tremendous back pressure on the trigger or on the bow They're pulling and then they hit the trigger when they want it to go Yeah, they can keep their shit together And I think it's a mental thing the real problem with people and target panic is two things one if you're in a tournament Like I mean you're shooting if you're getting target like those guys are shooting if people have never seen a Vegas round So what a Vegas round is you have three targets and you're shooting at 20 meters and you're shooting you're trying to hit a dime at 20 meters 30 times and so that's how you get a 300 score. Yep, this guy Lutz just shot 719 so he out of 720 720 is possible so at a 72 arrows this motherfucker only got a nine once and he's command shooting Yeah, this is the thing. It's like so it's not it's not a steadfast rule Yeah, but to overcome the pressure of that anticipation and flinching That's when people turn to a surprise shot. I think the pressure is the problem It's not the technique of releasing because if you show someone how to shoot a bow and they put the target They put the pin over the target they hit the trigger For a while they're good at right so what happens what what makes them not be good anymore?
Well, it's clearly their mind. Yeah, it's clearly the pressure Yeah, and so I think maybe you can be just as accurate if not more accurate using a command shot But you need to understand how your mind is working and you need to understand how to mitigate pressure And how to stay calm. Yeah, and I think there's only a few ways to do that There's strategies that you can use you can learn techniques But the reality is when a moment a big moment hits you you're gonna freak out So I think the strategy might be just have a bunch of big moments have more big moments in your life more Instances in your life where you have to deal with pressure and that kind of tracks with everything else in life The people that have dealt with pressure that understand pressure and know how to perform They can kind of do anything you can kind of go from that and be involved in all sorts of other things that involve pressure But if you don't know pressure at all and then all of a sudden There's a screaming bull elk in front of you at 40 yards and all you've been shooting at is a target Yeah, you're gonna panic. Yes, especially if you're not a pressure person Yes, now if you are a pressure person you're probably still gonna freak out the first couple of times But eventually you'll figure it out.
Yeah, you're really figuring out be a lot quicker Yeah, if you've dealt with pressure in the past, that's what I think I Spartan Forge we have a guy on the on the Passeters I guess you'd call him. I don't like any of the terms He's a guy that we trust to consult for us on features in the app and then he'll talk about the habits He's a name is Levi Morgan. Oh, he's a fantastic archer And just spending time around those guys they definitely have a way of because we had an archery competition a couple of years ago Everyone in the company and he was part of it What's funny is this now if we're gonna do this nine times out of ten this guy wouldn't win But one of my engineers is this killer named Evan Freed and he and Levi were in the final like 20 guys started this archery competition It was the two of them at the very end and Evan beat them. Oh my god.
I couldn't believe it weaponized autism He's one of them. He's one of them I mean he absolutely was a stone cold killer and then we did it with these other guys at a tack event like a total archery challenge We went how much did he beat Levi Morgan by? I mean he won I don't remember exactly what the Delta was but he won That's crazy and nobody could believe it like everyone looked at him like John freakin wick for the last Week and like who is this guy that just went and shot at the king and didn't miss and Levi's the best of the world Like I said if they had done that nine times more right Levi would have won the next nine But for one moment maybe for one moment he was Prometheus I don't know that see there's that we're going back to the mind again if you can do it once Why can't you keep doing it? Yeah, maybe I mean there you go Evan?
Maybe you should quit as an engineer for me and go and be a professional archer There's a lot of these rules that people have for things and I'm like well who invents these rules other people and a lot of times people invent rules to sort of To kind of rationalize or deal with their own struggles Right so the event rules of like what you can and can't do what you can and can't get away with what works and what doesn't work You don't even know what works if you try it and it works Yeah, I think draft Kings isn't available in your state think again the cages set and draft Kings keeps a full card at your fingertips in one Sports app live in all 50 states once the cage door closes Everybody has a pick draft Kings keeps you close to the pay-per-view cards from the first walkout to the final horn make your calls as the card Unfold's download the draft Kings sports app and use the code Rogan new customers can spend five and get 200 in bonuses within 21 days That's code Rogan spend five get 200 in bonuses in partnership with draft Kings the crown is yours gambling problem call 1 800 gambler 1 800 my reset Connecticut called 888-789-7777 or visit cck.org on behalf of boot Hill Cassino in Kansas That tax passed they may apply in Illinois 21 and over void in Canada event contract trading with draft Kings predictions involves risk of loss Availability varies predictions offer avoid in New York bet to get bonus bets that expire in seven days trading get predictions dollars that expire in one year $50 and rewards issued every seven days via click-a-claim for 21 days one non-with-rawboard reward redeemable terms at dkmg.co slash offer limited time offer nationwide based on Sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability varies by state here It's a that's a heuristic which is something I talk about all the time is people come up with a good enough way to do something that works for them Yeah, and it might not work for everyone well another example of this would be Ken Haines He doesn't he really slapped the whenever he follows he kind of pulls it slowly back But he does it's a definitely a command shot. Yeah, but then again look at first of all his ability to deal with pressure Yeah, right? He runs 300 mile races to all this crazy shit on top of that He's been a hunter for 30 years plus. Yeah, probably more probably 40 now, right?
So he's been hunting his most of his life and he said so much experience pulling the trigger on animals Yeah, yeah, and that reps it's all about reps. It's all about reps with everything in life and it's all about it's not just reps It's recent reps, you know It's like having the amount of repetitions like recently to the point where it's a normal natural part of your psychology Well, the way your mind works I'll do that with white-tail hunting is I always make sure I try to kill two or three dough before I really start zeroing in I'm going for a buck because of a buck's the first thing I'm looking at it's been nine months since I've hunted or six months or Whatever since I've hunted I'll still get it. I've been hunting for 25 years and I'll still freak out fever or get the adrenaline drop Words I don't usually get the I've never really gotten the adrenaline drop when it's happening But as soon as that era is loose then I'm like I'm just like freaking out like I don't even know what happened well at least you can keep it together before the arrows loose Because that's where most people fall apart I mean I've seen professional, you know I don't want to call him professional hunters But people that make their living as hunting influencers and they have these videos and you can watch them on YouTube And they're shaking like a leaf when they're on back their bow and they're like wow this guy's been hunting for 40 years Yeah, and he still gets jazzed up. Yeah, there's something about that I think it's why we all want to keep hunting right because it's probably why I do why it's hard to do for sure But it's wired into our you know Whatever however we evolve however we establish over time one thing is true is that we were able to stick around and have success because we had These groups of hunters that would go out and hunt for the tribe.
Yeah, so there's wiring in us 100% that that that hunting might be the only way Or one of the few ways to tap into that in a way that your body immediately understands fishing is to yeah fishing is too Yeah, I always bring well I have these comparisons that do is one of the reasons why I never go to protests because protests are like fishing This is why like fishing is a part of your DNA like you get a little kid when my daughter was five It was like the first time I took her fishing when she caught a fish was like oh, oh, it's in you It's in you you know that catching this thing means your your body's rewarding you know without these good feelings and good orphans because now you're gonna Be able to feed your family to survive when you're protesting and everyone's walking down the street chanting and cheering That's too much like war. Yeah that excites the part of the brain that thinks we're supposed to smash Starbucks to crush the patriarchy Yeah, whatever the fucking one of your bad things on fire when you see people behaving with you know air quotes mob mentality What is that I'll tell you what that is that's war that's your body's ability to recognize that it's you with a bunch of other people They're supposed to be on your side You're in a life-or-death situation and you're against another team and you're marching and chanting and screaming and everybody's hyped up And next thing you know violence breaks off and everybody gives into that feeling giving into the kind of behavior that would be almost impossible to imagine If you were by yourself Yeah, smashing someone's car window where you buy yourself walking up to Starbucks with a fucking traffic cone and breaking the window and Diving in and throwing things off the shelves. You would never do that. Why yourself?
Why are you doing it with this giant group of people? Yeah, it's the war thing. It's just like the fishing thing Yeah, you know like it's in you. It's not circuit.
Let's go you start black lives matter. Whatever it is. Whatever it is You know, no Kings. Yeah, yeah, you start marching down street free Palestine You know these fucking buildings are keeping us for free in Palestine.
You want to light them on fire And that's what people do It's it's a normal part of us that allowed us to survive Yeah, 2026 with tribal warfare. Yeah, we needed that circuitry and that feeling that you get from catching a fish Multiply that times a thousand for archery elk hunting. Yeah, it's it's off the charts the highs and the lows there was a Dear I was chasing I'm more of a white-tail hunter. I've only been elk hunting twice I want to do it more I just haven't had the time I live on the eastern seaboard most my career as in the military So the option of going west and elk hunting wasn't in the cards for me So I mostly white-tail hunted a couple years ago.
I was hunting a public land buck in the Allegheny that was 12 years old Where's the Allegheny? Well, it was actually wasn't actually an Allegheny was east of there But it's north north central Pennsylvania would have been the better way to say it But I just say Allegheny because that's near there it's farther. It's farther east of there It's actually a couple hours east of there But anyway, I was hunting up there and there's buck everyone had knew about and he was old and huge and at one point He was like 170 inches and it's pretty big for a public land white-tailed buck chute and everyone knew about it And I was going up into this area to hunt where there he had been historically during the rut Thermals were wrong in the area thermal draw was pulling and was rising still and it should have been pulling at this point So I was like this is a bad spot like where he's at he's gonna smell me coming in So I'm just gonna walk to a different part So I walked to the front of the mountain and just went up there where I knew the thermals would be better And he was on a doe and I was still on the ground I hadn't even got climbing a tree I was on the ground and he was pushing a doe into like a ditch and then he popped out And when I saw him I was like, oh crap, that's him like that's the monarch Everyone called him the monarch and I was like I'm still like freaking out Anyway, I pulled back and put it right in like double lunged him at like 35 yards and I had like an adrenaline drop for like 25 minutes afterwards I couldn't even call my buddy to come and help me drag him because I was so I was freaking out so bad And it was it was a consequence of like three years of knowing this buck existed or that he was in the area And then you put all this time in like way more time than you should to chase this animal And you have this goal and then all of a sudden it's in front of you And you're like I can't believe this is happening This is happening and then I always say the same thing I used to say in the military when I was shooting which was to kind of get into my Zoning out mode I had this acronym I learned in the military which was stab steady position trigger squeeze aiming and breathing So every time I'm at full draw I say to myself very silently I'm just in any position slow trigger squeeze aim breathe And then I always breathe at the paragee of my breath So I'll take a big breath in I'll breathe all the way out So there's no air in my body and then slow pull and I when I say that when I remember to say that to myself And it's kind of like any panic or anything kind of fall away and I'm just focused on the task of study position trigger Squeezing what happened like 25 minutes afterwards. Have you studied any of your Turner stuff?
Huh? I know who he is. We've talked on Instagram a couple of times I mean I've watched some videos but to say I've studied him or I know the whole story I would that'd be accurate well his strategy is essentially what you just outlined just with different words But the same the same thing he he says you should talk to yourself through the entire shot So that you make this a closed loop thing Yeah, instead of an open loop thing and so what that means is an open loop thing is like swinging a baseball bat once you start to swing it You're swinging it Yeah, it's going and a closed loop thing is something you could stop at any moment like writing when you're writing something down You could just stop that pan at any moment It's not like it's away from you right so the thing about an archery shot is you can kind of get away from you And that's when you flinch and that's when you're six inches off the mark Yeah, at 20 yards and you don't understand what happened and that's that's what he teaches people to avoid and he was a SWAT team member And he would teach people proper techniques in order to only he learned psychology and he learned like what's going on in the mind In order to be able to execute in those situations that are extremely high stress hostage situations Again, I shoot somebody that was holding someone hostage, right? He's been in those things and he realizes that that's a life-or-death situation that can be mitigated by a certain amount of understanding of what's happening in the mind and what causes open loop or closed loop thinking and so what you're doing is Instigating closed loop thinking by talking to yourself the entire time So by having every moment controlled and every moment calm and you have a system and you're actually saying that system through your head That's what keeps you in the present in the moment instead of just panicking like a lot of people do We've all seen it people just freak out Yes, and some people don't understand what is happening in their mind So they just repeat these things over and over again and they have good days and bad days and they don't understand where the bad days are coming from And what is it what it is is your mind got away from you and sometimes the mind can just run amok Yeah, it can just take it like that's why people have anxiety attacks I mean, maybe some of the reasons why people I don't want to say but I don't know why people have anxiety attacks But some people have anxiety attacks because they start thinking about something and dreading it and then it builds up in their mind And then all of a sudden it's just a runaway train It's either brain and they haven't developed personal methods for stopping that and mitigating that kind of stress and and recognizing what's happening While it's happening and then talking yourself down off the ledge and just peace of mind getting getting yourself to a peaceful place Some people don't have those strategies.
So the moment something goes sideways, especially if they're not used to pressure The moment something goes sideways. It just runs away from them. Yeah, so lots of people say lots of things about me I remember Andy on your talking smack about me being cat the America vautism And he's the best I mean I talked to Andy almost every day He's become one of my closest like I shouldn't say closest friends I should say someone I regularly talk to and he's good for me because he's kind of the opposite of me in ways like he Like like my wife and I are good for each other in the way that she worries about everything. She's worried right now She's sitting outside worried out of her mind right now about something probably something she hasn't talked to me about I almost worry about nothing until it becomes something that's important to me like if someone asks me to do some work or something That's particularly important Then I care about like okay this work represent me.
I got to do it as diligently as I can My representation reflects on my family so then things I start caring about things But if I do have a superpower I would say it was imposed on me in a weird way by my mother my mother was a alcoholic and would go to a meetings and drag me along Like when I was really young and she they would say the Serenity prayer at the beginning of every Alcoholics anonymous meeting which was God grant me the certainty to accept the things I cannot change courage Change the things I can with the difference So I'd be standing here and watching these people tell you insane stories like I went on a seven-day bender From Missouri. I woke up in Las Vegas and I just like what am I doing here like nine years old like what is what is happening? but that did stick with me and I would say that's one of my superpowers is if I can't affect something I don't worry about it like if There's nothing I can do about it Like I just had a conversation with my daughter about this last night who's worried about teenagers things I was like look you know I told you the Serenity prayer your uma my mother used to tell you tell me like try to just live by that and that kind of goes To the things we're talking about with shooting is let's just focus on the things we control And let's develop a heuristic or a way to get through this closed loop system that you're talking about and for me It was a heuristic because it was just something the military taught me that worked particularly well I didn't know all the psychology or stuff that you're talking about it there But I would say if I had one superpower, it's my ability to just not care when I can't affect the outcome That's very wise. I wouldn't say it's my wisdom It's something I adopted from someone else But it served me particularly well in life because whether it was in Iraq or Afghanistan or the Philippines or Africa or anywhere else I was in like a shady situation is like okay.
This is going horribly. What can I focus on I can get on the radio I can do this I can do that like let's do those things and let's get out of here And so it's it's served me really well So well, I think that's the proper strategy for navigating life correctly I think the opposite like just freaking out about everything every time it happens. That just doesn't it doesn't serve you I think what we're talking about earlier is issue to like think about all the things you just said all the different places You were where things went sideways like most people don't have those experiences And that's one of the reasons why most people are not resilient I think you'd need a certain amount of very high pressure situations in your life in order to kind of Galvanize your character. Yeah, you know, they're not who you are we down you don't know who you are like we've all seen these guys They're getting fist fights online and these videos online and they don't know how to fight and yet They talk themselves into this fight like it's almost like they want to believe and they want to convince this other person They are fighting and then they think they're gonna be able to do it and everyone's watch I'm just gonna hit this guy and it doesn't work out Yeah, and they wind up a highlight reel and everyone makes fun of them And then their life is literally ruined now when I was a kid if you got your ass kicked No one knew but you and the guys kicked your ass.
Yeah, and it happened all the time for me It was like every two or three weeks somebody we get in a fight Yeah, fighting was so common for me growing up in like a farm town in the middle of North Dakota Oh, I'm sure the highlight of our month Nothing like if the school bully and someone else threw down or whatever and that guy won or like it It's just like this is awesome But everybody got over it after a while and you forgot about the fight because there'd been ten other fights since then and life moved on Yeah Now if you get your ass fucked up in a if you go to talk some shit some dude in convenience store in front of his girlfriend He calves you with a can of something like I someone's got the thing in your face like oh shit Yeah, I'm not gonna fuck out the Internet remembers they remember forever and all your friends remember all the people that hate you remember You become a meme. Yeah, it's way more difficult time to fuck up than ever in the past It's one of those things to where I said this well I just did Annie's podcast like three weeks ago But it's like essentially we can chew if you don't force you said talk about resilience, but if you don't force The harshness of nature upon you like if you don't adopt it and try to put yourself in situations where things will get hard So you can find out who you are you can do this in a multitude of ways right? You can do it with you jiu jitsu you can go to jiu jitsu gym and get your ass handed to you time after time and just Understand like okay. I'm not the badass I thought I was and there's a whole wealth of things I can learn for the next 50 years And so you're adopting something or like hunting my friends that I do we do fasted hunts together We were gonna do this one this year, but Spartan forage kept me fasted fasted So what we do is we take a cooler we pack it with drinks and food and a kucharmon like salads and stuff like that And then we get a yeti and we lock it and then one of the wives has the code for the yeti And she doesn't give us the code for the yeti until we kill something so we have to send her a picture of a dough or send A picture of a buck or something like that And so we'll just have salt water and we'll fast for two or three days And then you know somebody kills a dough finally like there's in the past when we do it There'd be five or six of us so someone's gonna kill in the first few couple of days The shortest time was ever like 36 hours along this time I think we went four days and you're just hunting fasted and it's the best feeling in the world when someone Texan says like Go down.
It's like we're three days into like I'm a heavy guy So I can go a long time without food like I usually do a quarterly fast where I'll go the shortest is usually two or three days And the longest I'll do is seven days, but isn't that different when you're out hunting like you're burning off Yeah, so like by day three you're hurting and so we we have always killed within was except for one time We've always killed within three days But the sense of community and we talked about the wiring that taps into like when you're sitting around a fire with like five six people And nobody's eaten and now you're texting the photo and you're opening the cooler and you want to you want to cry almost You're like, oh man, you're the best I just can't believe you did this is the best they ever oh my god Like you're just you're feeling like you're on top of the world and it's you just killed a dough I know but that's what we're wired for and we're missing that I mean this is one of the reasons why people are so attracted to like these videos of people who survive or videos of subsistence cultures All that stuff there's a reason why we're attached attached to those things I think it's because that those human reward systems are the strongest purveyors of happiness that we have currently available to it Yeah, cuz we're not really wired to get happy from an Instagram video. It happens like we get a little little but it's different It's not the same happiness. It's a very temporary. It's not a body happiness Like you shoot at elk at 60 yards and double lung it and watch it tip over that kind of happiness is there's nothing like that Yeah, it's nothing like that.
That's a different thing. That's a survival thing. It's built into your DNA But the point I was making was if you don't choose something Like choose to eat well choose to train choose to hunt or choose to choose you to or choose just to get a degree and something really difficult If you don't adopt those things then like nature reality will judge you and you're gonna get fat and old or have no meeting You're also gonna get anxiety anything. Yeah, almost anything about everything the people that I know that freak out the most about things Don't do anything difficult, right?
And then the ones that are freaked out all the time about things and I'm like, oh, let's walk it off You're gonna be fine One of the things that works really well for my wife is I'll tell her to do something creative when she's feeling exactly She'll like paint or draw or build something or do something and that's great to be a good way to get like the creative Jesus flowing and just like complete something because I think one of the other problems is that we work both of us work in the tech industry and The jobs never done like when you're building software you're building things like it almost never gets finished It's always like we're done with this thing It's on to the next thing so you don't get that sense of like you know I would go back to North Dakota every year and just farm and drive beat trucks for like two weeks I take vacation to go and farm and drive beat trucks like do harvest because I just liked it being done and most times I donated the money to my church So I just go home and drive trucks for two days 12 hours a day beat trucks where I'm following a loader Putting beats in the back of the truck and driving it there just because I was like I did three fields this week I feel awesome. Yeah, you worked. Yeah, I worked I did physical labor and it's finished That's the best part about is the work's done well There's something about that stuff that's very appealing to people that's why Yellowstone's appealing right these people they have to run these cows Or they're gonna not survive. I mean, that's why we like, you know, these people that live as trappers and they live in the fucking Siberian mountains Yeah, there's something about that stuff.
That's just built into us I think we're probably more evolved for that than we are 100% what is going on today So it's satisfying the same circuitry we talked about before yeah, which is really what we're made for which is interesting because like you recognize this yet You're in tech and you have an awesome application for phones. Yes, but the goal of it is to get people out That's true every time your tech is actually yeah Very good for people that are outside and actually helps you and because people have less time They can scout at home or like when they really want to get out into the woods or you know September 13th and they fly in two days It's like or I can go scout this mountain digitally find out places I want to go and look at and then mark them and then get on the app But I always tell people when we're developing the app to like there's a bandwidth between the brain the thumbs and a phone and The amount of I'm trying to maximize that bandwidth So the less time that I have to interact with an app in order to get more information I've increased bandwidth right so less buttons less time just let's just get them the information They need to get them focused on the woods because if I hadn't my way about it They wouldn't pick the phone up once they're in the woods It goes in their chest pocket or their rig or whatever and then they're hunting That this is my the apps that I'm building like we're just about to implement an awesome thermals feature that we've been building for a long Time and we can act now accurately map thermals So when you're elk hunting and you see like a you know I'm waiting for these thermals to switch because where these elk are where these elk are at the Sun is hitting the side of this mountain Thermals are rising from the bottom and the wind is coming from the top So there's no way to get to these elk so I need to wait for the thermal switch So with this update we're gonna put out first on the web you can pick a day time of the year You can go historical on the historical weather so you can say these elk were in this area I dropped this pin now I'm gonna place this marker here and I want to see how the thermals are acting in the area This is what kills most hunters is not understanding how thermals work. Mm-hmm Especially white tails and elk hunters. They don't know how the thermals work or they don't understand it or they've never gone in the off Season what we're talking about with people that don't know what the fuck we're talking about when the morning is happening when it's cold and early in the Morning all the wind is going down the mountain when it gets hot Then all of a sudden the ground heats up and then the wind starts going up the mountain Yeah, so when these animals are below you as you're coming down the mountain They're gonna smell you immediately because all the smell is coming down So you have to approach them from the bottom Yeah, and then when they're above you if it starts getting hot out you got to get above them and you got to get above them quick Or they'll blow out.
Yep. They'll blow out of there. They can smell you from forever away. I've seen animals smell me from a hundred yards away Yeah, I've seen I've seen good data on studies and a buddy of mine He used to take a friend of mine he died in 2017, but he's a prolific white tail photo He took photos of white tails He had a deer pen and there was a mountain that was a three quarter mile away from his property in New York And when those does came into heat all of the bucks would gather at the base of this fence to smell the wind coming off of this mountain of These does that were three quarter mile Like how well they can smell and so yeah, we're putting this thermal feature out But the thermal feature the reason I bring that up is because it's designed to be used at home So you can map the thermal front area you can put in the temperature you can put in the wind speed and this engine beautifully maps Exactly how the scent is going to move around this mountainside Can I ask you this?
Does it vary depending on east or west slope because of its east slope the thermals arise quicker, right? Yes, and yes because the Sun and the incidence of the Sun because what we had to build into this was an extremely high resolution top A graphic layer we had to have this engine, but then we also had to put a canopy cover into this Oh, wow So it modulates differently based on the type of canopy that it's in whether it's elk on the side of a hill or it's in the open air Or it's elk inside of a bunch of hemlocks or not hemlocks But I think it's gonna change how those thermals work and I've been using it just the other day I've got these spots with white tail It's a little different because the bucks know where these thermals are as bucks get older and we'll get off the white tail Dear, I apologize, but you got me hyped up on a dog. I love white Number one most hunted big game. I know I've been hunting writ large people I doubt most people want to hear me talk about here I think people like hearing people talk about things that are very fascinating to them And I think people that don't understand hunting especially people that think it's easy.
You really don't understand what it is They really don't understand how complicated it is particularly bow hunting but even rifle hunting is easy good fucking luck I'm fine. It's not easy. It's not there's so much territory. You have no idea how big the mountains are when you get out there It is insanely hard.
Yeah, it's all hard. Yeah, it's a little easier than archery in that you can be 300 yards away and accurately shoot Okay, still not easy. Yeah, that's like saying that boxing is slightly easier than MMA But it's not easy. It's not different it's their hard things to do and especially to do them well and to understand all these Like when I first started hunting when Stephen Ella took me this up I got right there that's awesome.
That's my first start hunting Immediately I was like oh my god. This is so much more difficult There's so much more to learn than I ever understood this layer upon late. It's so complex especially be good at it I'm not back at it I mean I'm successful at it But it's also a lot of it because I use really good guides and people help me and I can handle pressure so and I'm in shape So there's those things yeah, but I'm learning things all the time I'd say like if I was a hunter if it was like a jujitsu belt I'd be like a high level purple belt maybe a round belt Yeah, but I'm not a black belt. Yeah, I know the difference.
There's like when I hunt with Cam Haines. I'm like, oh, okay Yeah, I don't know anything. He's a six degree black belt. He shows me things all every time I've known that guy for 12 fucking years and every time we hunt together He shows me something new and I learned something new some new approach some new way to handle a situation This is what's going on.
They're gonna do this. This is why they're gonna do this You got to know that we got to get ahead of them Yeah, like there's things he knows that I don't know and I you only learn with time and with studying and when it becomes the primary focus of your life And for me it takes over my life around June around June. It just takes over my mind. Yes I do other things, but I'm thinking about September same thing I was when I was driving yesterday I saw my family like I'm watching the leaves change like I can think about it I want to be in those trees right now.
It's there's something about well anyway to finish the point on the thermals I mark some of using this model. I mark some of my best white tail hunting spots in the mountains And then I will I mapped the thermals and looked at the thermals and it was it became apparent why I did were using these routes because An old wise white tail buck knows he's getting thermals from like 320 degrees are funneling into this one spot based on the predominant Wind for the area all these things that the app can tell you and it's like oh that's why he's always been in the spot because He knows the whole mountain before I ever steps a flop. He knows he knows if there's a hot though on that mountain He knows if there's hunters on that mountain he knows if there's anything on that mountain Smell it and it really is open my eyes like I can't wait to get this feature out so people can see it But the goal is to put a bow on this is to get people out and experiencing it because I think it's a great mechanism for like coming of age for young kids like hey, you know You're 14 or 15 or whatever I'm gonna treat like a man from today We're gonna go out and kill an animal eat it together and get a bunch of guys together for men I think we want for women as well But I'm saying particularly for young men we've kind of lost coming of age Rights or we've kind of like you know Native American tribes you study or Viking or all these other they had a time in place Which like now you're a man I'm gonna treat you like a man no more excuses right and we've kind of put that off And we kind of spoke about this last time But it's something that I think we desperately need for young men because and for adults even who haven't really chosen to start acting like men And I can say I act like a child all the time so I'm not a perfect dude But the military was that for me so mine got kind of outsourced But it's I think it leads to a lot of problems that we have in society today Like things my grandpa used to pitch at me about when I was a kid like 100% There's a lot of people who are never truly tested and they live their life with this just cloud of uncertainty Constantly hanging over them and this not this lack of understanding of their capabilities and how they can expand those capabilities That's the thing about being tested is that you realize like oh I fell short I'm I suck at this. This is not my thing I got to learn how to do it and then you learn and you realize oh I can expand my potential in all things I learned it from martial arts That's what that's what happened with me when I was young I got in martial arts when I was 15 Like really heavily and then it became my whole focus and it changed my whole the whole way I approached life I realized like that pressure and big moments and things that are difficult are good for you They're blessings and you learn about yourself from those things Yeah, I think I talked about this with Andy But I think it was Plato was not only known for his great thinking but known for his excessively good wrestling ability really Plato means broad or Brad shoulders that's what his name meant And he said it's one of the worst things in life to go through life and not understand the full potential of the human body Like to not push yourself physically to a place where a you understand the actual capability of your body to make it through a situation And then B to understand what type of person you regress to when the chips are down Which was another thing the military gave me it wasn't like something I had this profundity and I went out and searched for it It's like I'm in a seer course where I'm being pursued by you know operators and because there's there's a regular Seer courses in the military and then there's graduate level seer courses and that was kind of a seer course I just survived you've made resist escape So in the initial one which is kind of more for pilots and aircraft crew members They teach you how to survive in the wild how to evade capture like if you're being pursued And then if you're caught how to resist torture enhanced irrigation methods that type of thing and then how to escape So you get kind of like a watered down version that a lot of people go to but then this high risk officer pipeline or if you're in J-SOC and other organizations they put you through like a real deal holyfield one The one I went to was like three weeks and they teach you picking handcuffs How to escape from a trunk how to escape from a house how to improvise like make firearms shotguns how to you know dress a squirrel And eat it but they put you through like like a week I think it was actually six weeks maybe not four weeks But you two weeks of training where it's like you just sit in a place and you're picking handcuffs You sit in a place and you're learning how to get out of a trunk You sit in a place you learn how to conduct polish on what you're wearing So if you're spotted by policemen and you need to change how you look how you polish yourself so you change your appearance So if they've got an APB out for a guy in a gray shirt and a black pants How do you change that quickly?
Then after they teach you all that stuff they throw you into an operational scenario where you're just being pursued by a bunch of people who do this for a living And you know my evasion was like I think like 12 or 13 miles to the Appalachian Mountains And you're sleeping on the ground at night and I actually had a crazy It's the only thing that ever happened to me so I was an invasion people are gonna make fun of me for this story but it's fine I was in the Appalachians and I Was like on day two or three or maybe four or something like that and I'd eaten very little Before I left the town that I was in to get up on the teach you like how not to just walk a trail You basically serpentine snake a trailer So you know where the trail is you can still aren't yourself But you're not following the trail because that's gonna make you easily caught So you're running and then when they started the the operational scenario You're putting a trunk of a car with a painting outfit on your hand cuffed and your zip tied So you have to first defeat all of those restraints So you're learning you learned how to pick the cuffs you learned how to get out of duct tape or or these other things And then you learn how to pop the trunk from the inside whenever it's not built to be pop from the inside now They have all those latches that you can pull just jump out But they'll put you in like an older vehicle and then you have to evade So now you're running from people who are chasing you and the local authorities know that you're part of this course And they're also if they see you they'll also Pursue you so you quickly learn how to change what you're wearing whether that's going to like a Walmart donation point and reaching in and grabbing clothes Or you know one point the course I just put my whole bottom half in a mud puddle so my white outfit now look like I had black jeans on in the dark So you learn all these like you know little things to do and then you do the evasion part Well during like day three the evasion report and I still don't know if this is a dream or this happened pretty sure it happened I'm 80% sure it happened, but I hadn't eaten for a few days and I thought I ran into hikers on the Appalachian Trail So I came to an area and they're these people sitting on a log and again. I don't know if there's a dream I don't know if this is because I hadn't eaten for days or because I was being tracked or I was under a lot of pressure But I had like a quick conversation with them and they're like well We're gonna go to sleep and I was like okay like and they had along the trail They had these like little open face cabins right and so I saw them go into this open face cabin and and go to sleep and then I started a fire and Slapped on the ground next to the fire and I just told them Oh, I'm just you know, they give you a cover so you can just tell people what your cover is while you're in there when you're when you interact with people and So I did all that I started a fire. I'm sleeping by this campfire. I wake up in the morning and it was a big dirt area So I wake up in the morning I looked over there like three hours later This was like 2 a.m.
When I got there and it's like five or five thirty now and I look up and I'm like oh they're gone already That's weird. So like I start the fire again quickly warm myself up to keep evading and then I looked at the ground There were no footprints anywhere. So I was like wait Did I see people here last night or not like did this happen or not? And I'm like freaking out I'm not seeing like there should have been dirt like I thought they were sitting on a log Here so when I was debriefing after the course I told you do a debrief with like a like with a doctor Who's monitoring everyone because at one point you're being slapped around or you're locked in these cages or you're locked in like at one point The government detention part unlocked in a cement block like you're in a cement room where you can't stand up You can't sit down It's too thin for you to like get on the ground and they're playing this horrible freaking music at the top behind your head It's like violins that make no sense you're in there for like eight hours And so you really start getting like if you ever done like a dunk tank or like a tank where it's dark Yeah, so this is what this is it's centred depravational.
You can't lay down you can't stand up you can't get comfortable Because it's only like five and a half feet tall. It's too thin for you to lay on the ground They're playing this music on the back of your head and this is after you've been evading so you've been captured So you're dehydrated you haven't eaten and I was like seeing worms everywhere And I was like kept telling myself you're hallucinating like I've seen like all these snakes inside of there Like all this awful shit is happening to you And so I talked to the doc afterwards is like oh no I've heard this story like 15 times Hear the story of people meeting people meeting people meeting people that weren't there having any experience or being in a place Because they do have you with a GPS sensor and like a in a fanny pack so that if you get lost or you get turned up or hit by a car or something Like that they know where you are but they don't use that to chase you or they're not supposed to And so he's like yeah I did brief guys who thought they were in like different parts of the city or they were thought they were in a different area altogether Or they get lost and turned around they're dehydrated It's like when you're not eating for a while you've got the stress of being chased by people who do this for a living You haven't had any water and over liable meals you're stressed out You've been running for three or four days like your mind starts doing things to you So I still to the state don't know if A that was a dream B. I hallucinated those people or C they were there and just like the dirt was gone in the morning Guys, you know I'm in a ketones and I rock with ketone IQ But here's something that blew my mind throughout history You see all these civilizations talked about fasting and how good it can be for your body and brain I honestly feel sharper when I do it. That's because when you fast your body starts making its backup fuel ketones They burn clean last long feel amazing and they help you with focus and mental clarity But fasting is really hard so when I need to stay sharp I take ketone IQ It delivers the same super fuel your body naturally makes when fasting right to your brain They help me drop into laser like focus when I want to stay locked in and think clearly and that's the beauty of it You get the benefits of ketones without having to fast finally you can pick it up at CVS nationwide and your first shot of ketone IQ is always free So head to your local CVS and try one for yourself or go to ketone comms rogan for 30% off your subscription order But I mean the interdimensional travel maybe they're interdimensional it's possible if you're an interdimensional traveler Why do you have to look like an alien?
You know, you've got the ability to come here from another dimension I think you probably have the ability to look like Elon Musk I think it's highly likely that Elon Musk is an interdimensional traveler but something along those lines. He's something Yeah, there's but that's my thought about aliens in general Like I think if they were amongst us, there's no way we would ever know if they have the technology to do the things that we think that They're doing right we are woefully inept to try to comprehend or understand what it is They're doing or what they're doing right and why wouldn't they be able to imitate us? We're simple and there's also so many different models of us to choose from so many different versions of us that you could draw from and create a Compilation and you know make an artificial person or an image of a person or just affect someone's visual cortex to the point where they Don't see you for what you really look like. Yeah for sure That seems like simple compared to traveling inter-dimensionally or traveling interstellar Yeah, if they really do have these gravity drives that can instantaneously transport you from one galaxy to another I think they could probably pretend they're a person We can screw with our own perception all the time and then people explain it to you and you're like holy crap I didn't even realize that yeah the two faces looking together with the vase Oh, yeah, there's a there's one the line where it's like it's a block with like a black bar in the middle.
Uh-huh. Yeah We did that the other day on oh, okay. Well, I won't we tell the story. We've done it twice.
It's incredible So what does that call the game? Yeah, yeah, so you could your perception can be messed with and if you think that one's nuts Yeah, if you think you're in control of your faculties you'll rest on a limbic system in a central nervous system That's been around for a long time and it's very patterned the way that it metabolizes reality and our ability to mess with that is Wonder what evolutionary advantage if any there is in being able to hallucinate when you're tired I think there's probably something to do with well I don't mind an expert on this But I know that dreaming is particularly important when it comes to that stage of sleep cycle is where you store memories So one of the things that happens are not sleeping for a long time is your memories of one of the first things to go Because you need those stages of sleep in order to remember things no that makes sense because one of sleep to problem memory sucks Yeah, I mean I think dreams have a tremendous amount of function I myself in my huge believe it's probably one of the things I believe in most is dreams and this is gonna sound crazy coming from somebody who makes us living doing engineering But I do think that the collective subconscious and the individual unconscious We're resting on millions of years of learned lessons that we can't possibly be born with And so they pop up out of this collective subconscious like you see a person you just get the ick You're like, I don't know what I like this guy I don't like this guy right that lessons probably happen to your ancestors 10 million times and Something is popping out of that substrate that you don't have full access to it is telling you that because it's a heuristic That has been adopted over a million years of evolution or 300,000 years or whatever you think humans have been around for that story He's been told a million times and I think dreams it doesn't make sense to me again I'm not the expert on this but it's stuff that I think about all the time actually I was Back in the day I was trying to impress my wife and she's a mathematician and she you know went to Johns Hopkins super smart like just outside of the Normal distribution of people especially, you know a woman who's really into mathematics is just not normal or it's not you know Far more many men. I'm gonna get shit on for this. I mean way more men mathematicians than I do with women I'm sorry.
I don't control the fabric of reality, but it seems to be the case. I'm just observing things observing patterns anyway She's a pack math machine you covering all your bases. Yeah Doing your podcast the first time so much hate yeah, you got to stay at the comments. I don't know I don't go to that.
I didn't read your comments. Oh, we'll stay out of the DM. Yeah, well, I will close those off anyway Yeah, but uh, oh, yes, so dreams I will have a problem in my life and so the reason I was talking about pressing my wife She was in the chaos theory and she's reading all these books on chaos theory and so I went on YouTube to watch some videos about chaos theory And I actually this is an origin story for me of types of a type I actually saw a Jordan Pearson video, but it was not about chaos theory is about chaos in order like it was like No, it was one of those I didn't know so I clicked the video and this is before he blew up This was like, you know when he was just posting stuff on YouTube So I watched this video and my goal of watching the video was to get into understanding chaos theory But what I ended up doing was getting into Carl Jung because I watched one of these first videos So I have a very addictive personality So I read it started reading every Carl Jung book I could like the cool everything about the collective unconscious the red books everything that he wrote And and and really got into to dreams and this might be a self-fulfilling prophecy It doesn't matter because it's particularly useful to me But I'll have dreams where now used to you know Have a psychologist that I talked to you when I was in a kind of a depressive state years ago And he was I would make sure to hire one who was a union so I would document my dreams and say here's what I had a dream about and It just became astonishing to me that my dreams were trying to tell me things and from an evolutionary standpoint It made sense to me that your body wouldn't just present you fuzz like a TV screen that dreams would have an evolutionary function Where you're able to draw in the lessons of the past and you could call that the collective unconscious You could call that the Holy Spirit of God you could call that transcendent reality It doesn't matter, but there seems to be something to dreams I'm convinced of it because I still document my dreams to this day and when things are happening in my life The dream will be telling me like here's where you're at This is what you need to do and then we watch these dreams manifested in reality through a particularly good book or a particularly good movie And it's tte it's tugging on that same string where we're watching something and people have done this better than me But you're watching something and you're not understanding what you're watching But you know that you love it and you want to keep watching it It's because your unconscious is telling you there's a lesson here for you And I'm gonna make you keep watching this until you understand what the lesson is and the example I always give people is let me tell you a story and the story is about a guy who's innocent but he's sentenced to death and He had a collection of disciples that follow him around and he taught them beautiful things about the world and the fabric of reality He gave them appreciation for life. He would he died and was reborn or raised from the dead But also passed through to this world Throw a woman's womb and he's a fisher of men So I'll tell people that story and I'll be like what story am I telling you like when you're telling me the story of Christ I was like no telling you the shashin credemption.
It's the greatest movie of all time per you know IMDB per rotten tomatoes It's a perfect movie I'm not saying Stephen King wrote that book to retell the Christ story what I'm saying is that stories a very base story a story of The complete perfect man who's innocent of a crime who's tried and killed for that crime but reborn And that's because in the collective unconscious and in our lives We need to undergo those things like I talked about before you have to force nature and reality onto you and adapt to them and suffer a little death Like even an ego death like you had a system the system failed now It's time for you to recalibrate that system and then be reborn into the world And so I think all of those things are tightly coupled when it comes to dreams when it comes to media that we consume stories that With us we don't understand why and great art is art that's made in the and the artist doesn't even know the story that he's telling He just is just has a compulsion to tell the story and so they write it down and we don't know like Stephen King's great author I love consuming his stuff But he's more of a vessel to the unconscious then he is somebody who just thinks that great stories Well, he wrote a lot of his stuff basically unconscious. Yeah, you know some of his great work. Well, he doesn't even remember writing koojo Great movie. Yeah, great great great book.
I didn't read the books fantastic. Well, he was heavily drinking and doing drugs Yeah back in those days Yeah, and he would just get blocked out and write these books. Yeah, and I think it was Carrie too, right? I'm not sure what he's got a bunch of his books where You know some of the best ones where he was just obliterated when he wrote that was away into yeah He's having to get away from himself Get out of his own way and tap into that thing because it's one of the things that created people we talk about Yeah, is getting out of your own way.
Yeah, and you know finding that that zone Coqué to do stays. Yeah, I'm using the movie maximum overdrive. No memory of writing the book at all. Yeah, I did Okay, but King wrote it between 81 and 85 well deeply depend on alcohol and cocaine one of the best books He also wrote books like the shining pet cemetery in the top Tommy knockers during that era while regular consuming alcohol cocaine Valium Xanax marijuana and even mouthwash he's openly shared his memory on writing.
Yeah, it's in the book He often has stuffed cotton swabs in his nose stop cocaine and juice nose bleeds from tripping onto his typewriter. Fuck. Yeah Jesus me my eyes best stuff diving into unconsciousness and then like a hero coming back with something a story Have you ever the hypnagogic state? No, yes, I have but I don't remember what that term is I have it perplexing describing the solid or dollars use of it because I found many people that did it But I was getting really in a dreams to and was having some weird sleep deprived visions And I found that this is a thing that smart people I guess tapped into Half being half awake and sleep deprived.
What was you about the news radio writers? I've told you that yeah, yeah, and so the writers on news radio They didn't do drugs, but they would stay awake So they'd stay awake till like three o'clock in the morning and then start writing the scripts Wow, yeah, and everybody was just like delirious and they would write to like six seven in the morning We would show up to do the table read and these guys were still awake from the night before so they've written in and Hilarious shit because they were just like it's like they were high but they weren't high and they would write these ridiculous absurd scenarios and really hilarious lines And they were doing they were purposely doing it under sleep deprivation to induce that state Yeah, and that I think is a you know, it's gonna sound paradoxical to say it But that's a heroic action right like going into going into the unconscious a place where you're either depriving yourself hurting yourself But you're you're you're diving into the mud the the water yeah, and you're pulling out something great Like it goes to what you said about fishing like Christ said I'll make you fishers of men and that means I'm gonna dive into the water To the abyss I'm gonna pull out something of value and everyone gets to eat and be happy and that's the that's the hero story par excellence is People going into unsavory conditions making sense of an unknowable environment Recalibrating themselves and then returning that's always the story in the book right the hero gets defeated in the beginning He has to go through some type of transformational period which often like star wars He's in the swamp or Thor Ragnarok. He goes this upside-down world where he has to fight the whole kuzus friend or any of these movies they have that and then there's the return of the king where he sets order and makes everything right and Dreams I just it's one of the most valuable things to me And one of the things that kind of sucks about it is is and Jung talks about this is once you start to really learn and live Like you try to become a better version of yourself. You'll actually end up dreaming less But when you do dream the dream will be more dense and but the layers of the dream get more The dream is never just to solve one problem.
It's usually it's many problems stacked on top of themselves So sitting in when you learn more about yourself when you start listening to the dreams and you start living like you dream less Well, not not necessarily The better lesson is if you start listening to your dreams and you start orienting yourself based on the feedback that you're getting from the collective unconscious Or the word of God or the voice of God and you start setting your life in order and you start acting like a better person The need for dreams is not as profound. How does he make this determination? Does he do is he running a study? Are you looking at is he dealing with his own personal experiences?
So I read this and I think it's called With export development Canada Canadian businesses are competing leading and winning in more international markets like how agrifood businesses are strengthening global food supply And critical minerals are powering industries of the future their ambition can't be continued and with EDC behind them neither Can their growth export development Canada is the financial partner for Canadian businesses going global visit EDC.ca for more I Think this was in the red book, but I'm not sure or it might be I can't remember which might be man in his symbols It doesn't matter But what what he's basically saying is the dreams are there to provide you input and corrective measures and to let you know the The archetype that you're acting out and then once you start setting yourself in order A good marker is you're no longer dreaming in other words You're doing the right thing now so your dreams don't have to keep giving you this feedback Huh Jamie can press your test me because I might be wrong I don't want to say something wrong on this podcast of all It's also like the statement all this is taken from something he said it's almost like that but dreams balanced conscious mind If you're waking mind is overly rigid hyper rational or arrogant the dream will supply emotional vulnerable or contradictory Imagery to restore equilibrium interesting self-retrial of the psyche young saw that a dream was a spontaneous self-retrial in symbolic form and of the actual situation in the unconscious They show you where you truly stand psychologically without the egos filters Yeah dreams to drive towards wholeness and self-realization So what I got from you was the more you start to become more of a whole person and you engage in the self-realization But yet less utility the dreams will have and therefore you'll have less of them So in other words if you're doing well by yourself, I understand this But I don't understand how you'd be able to study this unless it's all completely anecdotal from an individual Yeah, you're one person and your thought process especially as a psychologist and a psycho analyst is gonna be very different than most people So to say that it's gotta be people that always drink like there's people that have very vivid lucid dreams Yeah, they're able to cultivate those yeah And I would also say well Jung falls out of the distribution of today what most people engage in is cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT It's not what Jung was doing like Jung was far more radical and I wouldn't say the most pretty reviewed guy in the world So it just it and it could be like anything else in life a heuristic that doesn't necessarily the right way And the reason I say that is because he risk is something that's not the right way to do something What it works for you is the right way to do things for you And it just might be a useful heuristic to me But it certainly I can think of just you know a dream even I had last week where I wrote it down and went back to it The next because I woke up at like four in the morning I wrote it all down woke up the next day and look at it It was like smack at me in the face like what the dream was telling me Is it personal I mean I can talk at it at a high general level, but it is personal um Problems with legal with some legal stuff and You know, I'm almost through it But it's taken a toll on me for about a couple of years And we got some resolution that was some of what I wanted to see and some of what I didn't want to see And that night I went to bed pretty angry and then I had a dream where I was on a train And there were these people that were like rendezvous people all over the train And they were like, you know, biker looking guys kind of rough and they were making fun of me or they were telling me I wasn't shit And then some of them would challenge me to things And then in the dream I met a woman and I was like, hey, I really don't know what's going on in this dream Like or I'm not in this dream in this place like can you help me out? And she was like, well, you kind of have to learn what's going on here on your own Like and so at one point a bunch of gunshots came from the outside of the train And I grabbed her like as the guns were shooting and I put myself in between her and the gunshots where they were coming from And then she said when we got up and like the gun stopped firing She's like, okay, I can help you out some here And she started telling me things about this this this train world that I was in And then a guy came and challenged me whose name was also Bill But he looked like old like an old bearded guy like an old like biker beard guy And we started fighting and I put him in an Americana And which you know anybody who knows how fight shouldn't succumb to an Americana What are you talking about? Well, I'm saying like, you know, I'm fighting like a blue belt and I try to hit him with a you know, a basic jiu-jitsu move He's gonna fuck my world up. Oh, I don't know about that.
Well, Andy would guys Maybe a high level black belt. Well, I don't know. It just seems like you get caught in americans all the time Maybe I don't do more than this than I do But I put him in an Americana and I ended up not that this is possible But I ended up compound fracturing his elbow. That was all the time And um, he didn't quit And the woman told me as I was fighting she's like not only does he have to say uncle You have to accept that he just submitted before it's over And so he's like I'm not done and I was like oh my god So we keep rolling and I he tackles me and I get into a guard and I and I put him in an arm bar And I break his arm with an arm bar his other arm And then he's like, okay, I submit and then she's like now tell him you accept his submission And so I like accept your submission and then and then later in the dream like I get off this train This is crazy fucking yeah, and I wrote it all down I can show you down my phone when we get out of here because I woke up at 4am and wrote it all down And then I got out of the dream and I ran into my wife my wife said um I'm going to get on the train as well And I feel like I need to um go and test myself or get into the world and I was like, baby Don't like don't do that don't get on the train like it's not a good place to be It's horrible.
Don't do it She's like oh, I feel like I need to do it and then I woke up So the dream like I immediately knew just from like the self-study and reading these things The train was a framework for the legal system in other words There are these there are these people that speak terms you don't understand It's got a it's got its own direction and inertia and gravity and you don't control where the train train goes Just like you don't control where a courtroom or a judge or the justice system goes You are subject to everything that's happening on that train and they're going to say and do things um that um That makes sense to you and that you're going to need someone else and like it's set up there a compensatory Function for men is usually an anima character and anima relation is you know, I've heard you talk about this and what you're describing is anima integration But essentially men need to first become men and once men become men then they can start integrating anima And what what easy way to say this is a grandfather or a man needs to grow up and become hard he needs to be disagreeable He's a fight he needs to learn how to push himself and test himself and instill his masculine features into him Once he's done that then he can be the old grandfather that's got like a granddaughter on his lap Um or or he's emotional with a grandchild or he's starting to learn really more about his wife But he first needs to learn himself so he has to harden his masculine His his um his masculine features before he integrates anima features but anima features in movies Um or in books or in all these things. It's usually a character like if you watch the movie Wolverine Or not Wolverine if you watch the Logan movie He's got a young version of himself who's a woman who has no ability to speak so she flax logos She lacks um an ability to express herself in the world And as she starts to integrate and get closer to logan Who's this masculine character? She finally adopts logos and starts to speak towards the end of the movie and even starts speaking english And so and because they're the same person she's a clone of him You you would say that's the anima part of logan that he needs to integrate before he can defeat the bad guy in the end of the movie So this anima character on this train who is is you know a particularly good lawyer or someone who? Understands this world that I don't understand um and I need to show them something Like protecting her from the gun fire before she starts telling me about this world and how it works in other words I have to I have to use that compensatory relating function in order to understand this train that I'm on that I've got really no control over and that the stakes of this fight were far bigger than I ever thought they were And that the person that I'm fighting which is not the person I'm fighting in court or not the person I'm fighting in life Was actually me and there's a part of me that I was experiencing that dream who's not willing to give the fight up He will fight until his he's gotten a american until he's got a broken arm until he's got ankle lock and he can't walk anymore If my dream was warning me about taking this to the end and if you take this to the end it could be bad or it could be good We don't know look could assume your life it could consume your life more important Yes and consume millions of dollars and consume anything else And so my dream was readying me and saying look you're at a threshold where you have to where you have to open yourself up The parts and really learn the justice system and really learn these things Um or you're not going to be ready for the fight and the fight's not against the other guy the fight's actually about your against yourself Um and and so that that that's the sense that's the nexus of the dream the dream is not telling me about the future It's telling me where I am at this point in time.
So it's it's very useful to me these things And we see them reflected in media like I said um in that logan movie I talked about he actually fights himself and that himself that he fights the clone of you see in the movie He's gotten a logos he can't speak and he and this daughter or this clone of him has no logos and he cannot speak and they're moving from South of the border Which is this like chaotic desert wasteland up into north the coda actually in the movie Which is this like garden of Eden type of place and it's there It's just like buddy travel story across this place where he has to integrate these parts of himself in order to finally defeat his shadow self Which is a union thing which is this other wolverine with no ability to speak who's this animalistic version of himself And only then in the end of the movie He's you know, it's really the story of moses But in the end of the movie he's literally hung on a tree and killed by his own shadow self And then only then can this new version of him this animate integrated perversion of him Um go north into canada and live freely So it's it's one of the highest grossing marvel movies of all time I think it made over a billion dollars But it's telling a very old story in that old story that it's telling is an incentive amount in like moses to go up and get the new law But it's also an ascent of the mountain to that will ultimately lead to your crucifixion But it will save everyone else that you love it's like, you know, the the jews and the wasteland Um, it's this death and rebirth story that um it speaks to a very deep level in people and even as engineering minded as I am and as scientifically minded as I am I can't dispense with something when it's as useful as it is Um, there's just something there that keeps scratching at me and I can't let it go And it's part of my addictive personality like I said i've consumed so like eric noi-man and carl-yung and Freud and adler and all of these great authors who wrote about all of this the perseverance of the human soul Under extraordinary circumstances, um, you can't dispatch with these things because it got these people to where we are today And there seems to be some truth there. So well, it's undefinable and it's very strange whatever the dream state is It's there's something going on there. That's very odd very very odd and um, I don't dismiss it I don't understand it. I don't dismiss it But I'm very wary of people who are clearly defining it like mapping the territory Yeah, I don't I don't know if you have the ability to do that and I don't you know I think people want to define things that are undefinable because it gives them comfort for sure But there's a structure to things that you know, they can they can say oh, I get it now I don't know if you're ever gonna get it I think it's the same thing that you get when you hear from people when I was 16 Is the only time I've ever done drugs in my whole entire life and I can now say this that I'm out of the military That's outrageous.
I've never done anything but when I was a child um You know what you're doing? Right nicotine when I was a child um some friends some friends gave me mushrooms when I was like 16 and it was a crazy experience um and uh It also I won't tell the story because we've already done this once but it also led me to an updating of my system and understanding of who I am How can we never do it again? I was a military and how can we don't do a security clearance? Um, I don't know I just I'm not saying I wouldn't all I'm saying is I'm so hyper focused on what I'm doing now that I don't I don't there'll be a time in the utility for it There'll be a time in place for it and I do think I've talked to lots of veterans um other guys um who have done like the uh um What do they go to South America and they do I've again I've again Yeah, um and you know I talked to one guy um who said you know he had a ton of antidepressants and medication and stuff And he went down there and did that when he got back he threw it all away and he was better afterwards Um, so there's definitely value there but again, that's that That that's that pattern of diving into unconsciousness and diving into these this world that will judge you Um and some people come back better.
Some people come back broken. Some people overcook the goose. I'm not sure I think I would probably do it. I one day.
Um, I'm just so busy building I would worry I also worry about my mind like I also know I would never do like a cocaine Or I would never do like some of these other drugs because I'm really already highly strong Never really hyper focused on things. Yeah, that's why I believe that at all even though it's very interesting to me I would never be able to get near I mean I do not want to try it once I do nicotine because it helps me think it's the only thing that can make me focus like when I I don't do too many a day, but when I do them It's usually when I'm trying to think about a problem or like zero in on something Whereas other people that like makes them feel like giddy or high or whatever I get no feeling from this other than Like it just yeah, it's a definite neutral but makes the world focus in um And I had it when I was in Iraq on my second tour to Iraq I started doing like mint skull because we'd convoy like a long ways And there wasn't anything to do it's not like we had a turtle box or a bluetooth speaker in the punvy You just had six hours of driving in front of you So I'm gonna throw a skull in just like dip mint skull and then I started brushing my gums away So I quit and then when this stuff came out I was like oh I get to get the nicotine without the foot brushing my gums away sign me up right yeah It's very addictive to people it's interesting. It's uh it's this stuff these pouches have come out of nowhere I get off of them every once in a while like I'll switch to um There's this one that I use um that's got no nicotine in it. Ultra's?
Yeah, so I'll just do like that for like two or three weeks Um, yeah, those are great and then that's just me tropics Yeah, and so I'm not you know wired up like the first day is always like this kind of sucks Like I want one I don't have like the come down that most people have where I'm like, I'm gonna kill someone if I don't need one right now Yeah, it's just you get I do get um disagreeable. I don't I think it's biological man. I can just stop taking them. I took them Like uh when I was on vacation, I took off 10 days and no problem at all and I do that all the time take three four days off Doesn't irritate me, but I think that's biological I think some people have that weird thing and some people don't and some people they it gets in their system to the point where they need it all the time And some people don't I've heard horror stories of people I've also heard horror stories of people with other stuff that I find really troubling like cradam cradam's a big one Where is that?
I'm sorry. That's that weird fucking it's kind of an opiate and it's everywhere It's in those live free drinks and those there's a lot of different like they banned the synthetic version of it from gas stations now People are buying the stuff and convenience stores and weird sketch stories. Do you see it? Yeah, man.
You can buy that grocery store You can get it from a leaf right? It's from a plant called the cradam cradam leaf I don't know what the plan is but this stuff has become very popular and I've heard horror stories of people going to like, you know A quote-unquote health foods door like a juice shop and they have these little live free drinks and they go Oh, this must be healthy It's in this place and you drink it and you're fucking vomiting and it's like you feel like you're on opiates Wow, I've not even ever heard of this. Yeah, it's interesting because there was a guy that He had some real problems with opiates and then he started telling me that we got off opiates got clean And then he was telling me about cradam he takes cradam and I say what is this stuff? And I said well at low doses it acts almost like a stimulant like caffeine and then at higher doses It's it's it's more relaxes you and I'm like, okay, like how much do you take?
So he told me well, you know if you want to take a couple of them like before a podcast or something try it and I did I was like, hmm, this is kind of interesting to a couple pills I was like it is it's kind of like a little stimulant. No big deal And then I said how much do you take and he said well before I wake out and work out I take 10 So I said what I go you take 10 I go what does that feel like? Yes? I don't have a problem at all.
So I took 10 and I called him up and I said hey man, I go you're high. I go you're getting high This is you're not sober. Like this is not a sober thing I'm high as fuck right now It was a weird high because it was a high that didn't seem to affect my motor skills So uh, it was at the studio. I did it.
So I worked out have no problem working out It didn't affect my cardio. It didn't affect my ability to lift weights. It didn't affect anything and then I was playing pool It didn't affect my ability to play pool either. It didn't like fuck with my motor skills like alcohol will What do you feel like when you're on it like what?
Oh, it's weird. It's a weird high But whatever it is, it's a high I was like dude your high as fuck if you're taking 10 of these like you're not sober And you know, I think there's a bunch of people that have had problems with opiates that don't recognize That this takes them down that same road and then I know a lot of people that are heavily addicted to create them and can't get off of it Wow like friends. I've one good friend who takes it every day. He's taking He drinks bottles of these things.
He's drinking like six a day. I was like fuck dude. That's crazy I'm so afraid of drugs. Um, just kind of come from my family Not to smite my own.
I love my family, but just drug addicts and alcoholics many people do I mean, it's it's not nothing to be ashamed of. It's normal I think I'm the only one who's not been to jail or rehab. That's crazy And then you know, I've got two sisters that died from overdoses and her brother that killed myself. Oh my god Um, I just fuck yeah, two years ago or three years ago.
My sister Jenny died Maybe even longer four years ago than my sister Heather Who was most like me in the family? In other words, like we both wanted to get out of North Dakota And um, she married into a great family like one of the best families I've ever seen and then got an antidepressants And then I believe when she got off the anti-depressants It was really rough like a really rough time for her and she got addicted to meth and phenamines And then ended up leaving her family and going up to like Fort McMurray, Alberta And she was up there for like seven years and wouldn't talk to any of us and her and I were very close growing up We were the most alike and that we just wanted to leave North Dakota and see the world and do things and And so while she was up there, she was at like a rehab facility and in this wacky fucking Canadian america's top hat place Um, they would give them meth once a week. What at the facility? Yeah And so she either stored up her meth like didn't do it one week and kept it And faked it or got some from someone else but did like a critical amount of meth and killed herself at the facility And and um, they would give you meth They were giving it.
I mean, why were they giving Jamie? You can look this up, but there's a term for it I don't remember what it was because I asked the same question because her brother or my brother x brother-in-law Her husband rick told me and I was like, why are they giving it to people? He's like well They wanted them doing it like in a clean safe environment instead of like out on the streets And i'm like, how about we just get them off of that shit like can we all agree that's bad? It was a strange strategy Um, this is the strategy that they employ in a lot of these cities right where they give people access to drugs that are safe And they also give them clean needles and crack pipes.
This is something that you see particularly on the west coast It's a very common thing in the pacific northwest. There's a bunch of these places that will give people they give them money They'll give you drugs and they'll give you needles and the idea is that you're providing them with safe access Well, it killed my sister while she killed herself, but i'm saying, you know, my family's just the story Not the story of it. There's good people in my family very good people that I love very much I'm not trying to smite my own but we have a problem with addiction A lot of people have a problem with addiction whether they believe it or not You know, I think addiction is a normal part of human behavior And I think there's probably an evolutionary aspect to that. I think Addiction is what allows people to get very focused on certain things like like to become a good hunter What do you have to do?
We have to be very addicted to the idea of hunting You know, and I think that same sort of pathway can be very destructive and it can be very destructive Like you can get addicted to gambling Which I've seen a lot of people get addicted to gambling or you can get addicted to drugs and alcohol You know, there's this guy that I knew that was a world-class pool player like one of the best in the world And he heard his back on a car accident and then become addicted to pills And my friend Tommy said this best he said the same thing that made him great at pool made him addicted to those fucking pills Like he couldn't put him down. He was just invested in those pills He wanted to take them all the time and he died of drug overdose young and this was a guy that never drank never smoked Was clean sober and was just his number one focus was just being the best pool player in the world and I think that thing that we all have especially some people have In in space I have it is I become very addicted to things. Yeah, me too. It's very focused on things where it consumes me Golf did that to me.
I don't call for anymore, but I got to where I was like a six handicap, which is a fairly good golfer What do you Jimmy? 14 15 so I just shot a I had played for the first time in a few months the other day and just shot like 12 over Which is like a good golfer, but I was a point when I live in Hawaii that I was like, you know I shot a couple of par rounds like one or two over and I did this solely because somebody told me I was too much of a fucking girl And I'd never be good at it. That was the sole reason every time I was practicing my other locker show him I'm gonna beat it and I like devoted my whole life to it and then when I got really good and I was better than most people Are I into I lost all interest I hardly ever do it now really hardly ever do it It's how am I that's it's really weird It's happened to me a couple of times in life where I would go down a road of addiction It just fortunately the addictions weren't like positive kind of you know positive control loops Where I would get into something hard and then once I felt like I had a certain level of mastery I'd move on to something else Well, that's probably the part of you that wants to learn something from scratch again to go through that same process Yeah, which is that's the most important part I think the most difficult part is the beginning becoming a beginner at things I think it's very beneficial to you. Yeah, it's very beneficial to you to learn that there's something that oh my god I know nothing about this.
I'm terrible at this. I have so much room to grow Yeah, whereas something that you've been doing for a long long time It you know it becomes more of like fine-tuning Yeah, it's the slow incremental improvements rather than understanding this like enormous sea of information that you're not you don't have access to yet Yeah, with golf it was like I'm hitting the ball straight We'll be gone. That's nuts. Uh like next thing Bo hunting is though something I haven't exhausted obviously technology is something I have an exhaust Well, I think bo hunting is so variable too.
There's so many different things If every shot was 20 yards and every animal stood still it would be boring. You'd get bored of it Well, yeah, I don't think you did bored of it, but it wouldn't have the same appeal that it has where It's completely chaotic One of you doesn't even know the game you're playing as the animal, you know, it's it's playing a different game It's game of survival. It's looking for predators and you are a predator But it doesn't understand how you're doing it and your your your thing is like to get to a position where you can execute execute shot And do it right and then the amount of time that you have to put into it I think it's the real thing for me. It's like the understanding that Look if I take a few days off of archery and I go and shoot my first few shots are a little shaky A lot of times I'll still, you know, hit the 10 ring at 60 yards with, you know, a few days off But it feels a little odd.
It feels it doesn't feel 100% locked in and then I have to do it again to un-locked in And if I had to shoot an animal like that Like if I had a shoot if I had a very difficult shot on an elk at like 70 yards and I hadn't shot a bow in two months I would not take it I wouldn't be able to right which is nuts right I've shot Thousands of arrows at 70 yards effectively in a lethal zone Yeah, and yet I wouldn't be confident that I could do it where there's a lot of other things that I would be very confident that I could do If I hadn't done in months, right? It's weird. It is weird and I think because of that because it's such an Ingrossing and involving process the process of archery in particular and then bow hunting at the extreme level of it I think there's two different extreme levels of archery. There's target archery which I think is extreme mentally, but it's still a stable static shot Static target versus bow hunting which is non-static moving enormous animals and all their senses and all the different things that are involved Wind all the factors elevation changes.
There's a lot of stuff going on. They're moving There's a lot of things happening that you never can master it. There's no mastery You can get more effective than you used to be. Yeah, there's different ways to do it Like I've got like I'm a very analyically mind bow hunter I like breaking everything down understanding the thermals rise and fall of the sun first light last light What are these thermals gonna do on this hill?
Where's this buck coming from? Where's the dough bedding? Where's the scrapes outside of that dough bedding? How do I get downwind of them?
How do I avoid the parking lots? How do I avoid these things? I've got this other buddy His name is Johnny Stewart who is just a deer like I'll go scouting with him This guy kills two or three big bucks every year and you would think this guy must have like a system And he's just like this feels like a place where they're deer Like well, John, what are you talking about right now? It's like I don't know bill, but like just the way this place looks to me What's pattern recognition?
Yeah, but yeah, but he's pulling it from a place where he can't cite to you What's going on? Whereas when I walk into a spot, I'm like well, I've got three intersecting trails that come here There's you know, no bedding over here. I've got two scrapes here The thermals come at 30 So I want to wait for the thermal switch before I get into my stand Otherwise my scent is gonna paint this side of the mountain and he's just like this looks good It's interesting that there's there's people that are system oriented and then there's other people that are instinctive Yeah, that that's a big factor in striking So in striking one of the things I find interesting is some people who are great strikers and by strikers I'm talking about martial arts. Yeah, some people have a system and they're really good at like Showing their system and teaching their system and other people can't quite tell you what they're doing Right.
They just know how to do it. They know how to they know how to like do something at varying speeds in order to fuck with someone's Perceptions their timing and reads and they just do it instinctively and it's just they've done it They've done it so many times. They just know what they're doing, but they can't teach it. Yeah, yeah, it's so strange Especially when you talk to people who are at that very high level like I think you know But I've become pretty good friends with George St.
Pierre Mm-hmm And when you him and I bear hounded last year together and I spent basically a week with them and I didn't do jiu-jitsu I did it mixed martial arts in the military or I did combat as we called it in the military for like seven eight years So it's a little different like you would learn the basics But then it would get into right now that you've got him in the position you can stab him hurt Now that you're in this position you can break contact or like so there was a combat nexus to it Right that wasn't strictly jiu-jitsu there was more to it and um But like talking to him and then just like messing around or seeing like how he applies pressure or what he's doing or how he's a great wrestler and how he Integrates these other things. It's just when you deal with these people or like with Gordon It's like you're at a level that's just I couldn't ever get there Even if I hope to and even if you could explain to me what's like in other words Gordon could pin me in a position and say here's what you got to do I still can't do it you know saying like to him to him And so they're just at such a level that even if they are able to articulate it to you're still not getting there because you don't have Everything that it takes to bridge the gap from here to there Well Gordon's very Systematic you know and it comes from his teaching under Donner like Donna her John Donner I think the great mastermind of jiu-jitsu He has a very specific systems and he breaks things down like they're very technique oriented And then there's there's things that you just learn from over the course of training There's the flow of it all yeah that you learn from it But Gordon is like a great example someone who's an amazing teacher as well as an amazing jiu-jitsu competitor because like his Big part of his income comes from his instructional selling instructional because they're so good Yeah, I mean that thing that's interesting to me about Donner is like he's almost like a first principal jiu-jitsu guy Like when you hear him talk like he breaks things down like very elemental levels where it's like what is the point of jiu-jitsu? What are you doing with jiu-jitsu? What are you trying to establish?
It's like I'm not even thinking about these things but he's like because I think his background is in philosophy right or something like that Yeah Columbia yeah, he was he was a professor. That's crazy to that transition to or at least it was he a professor was he was definitely was a PhD I believe and then started doing jiu-jitsu because he was a bouncer and Wanted to learn how to fight like I probably should learn how to fight because he was a power lifter at one point in time and rugby player Also, and then became obsessed and you know became the greatest coach of all time and he's like a character from a film Yeah, really doesn't it doesn't exist in real life because he's a guy where's a rash guard everywhere he goes He's a real eccentric. It's not like he's trying to be eccentric. It's like he's either this or he's a bad guy in a Bond movie Okay, so it's six to be black belt Arava United States 91 study at Columbia University's philosophy PhD program after arriving in New York Donner was introduced to Brazilian jiu-jitsu Continue training at the academy became teaching classes as well while Gracie Hanzo Gracie was traveling for competition.
So did he finish his education and did he start teaching? Yeah, master's degree in philosophy was pursuing PhD Okay, and so that's when he became obsessed and so while he was attending the university He worked as a bouncer in various Manhattan nightclubs. I've elevated his education, but a little bit That's not he was teaching but he when he started teaching jiu-jitsu. He was like sleeping on the mats like he's he was there all day long every day I know they're addicted personality not just that but a man who is obsessed with the you know the Japanese term kaizen I've heard you talk about yeah kaizen is you continue to improve on one thing constantly where it's this never ending cycle of improvement And this is philosophy that you plasti-jitsu.
This is continual cycle of improvement You know there's a there's certain applications that people seen like the the application of kaizen in engineering for example Like a good example is like they take a specific platform and continue to work out like a good example is the Nissan GTR You wear the Nissan GTR? Yeah, okay So Nissan GTR is one of the best examples of that where it is essentially the same car for 20 plus years And they they don't change the body shape. They don't change the geometry They don't change the way it's all-wheel drive sports car But what they do is continue to refine it to the point where it was just fucking dialed We can just constantly improving it and just dialing it and dialing it further further And if you get like a 2025 I think it was 2025 or 2026 was the last year they made the GTR and you compare it to like a one that was released in the 19 What was the first GTR was it 2000s was it I think it was like in the 90s. I thought but maybe early 2000s I think it's in the 2000s, but it almost looks the same But there's so much better and that's that's the same with everything I mean kyzen as applied to mix martial arts as a whole like if you look at mix martial arts as a whole All of these individuals that are competing in it and all these individuals that are pursuing it and teaching it and studying it They're essentially doing that they're taking this thing that used to be this chaotic thing where you know There was certain strategies that people had you know one guy was a brawler The other guy was a grappler get you down the ground punching the face a bunch of times And then they're expanding the possibilities to this like insane level where you're seeing people now that are like on the Dana white Contender series that would be absolute world champions in 1994 right and these guys haven't even entered the UFC Right, you know because the level of the game so far this constant pursuit of excellence and then this competition this boiling pot of competition Where you have I mean how many MMA athletes are there worldwide now?
I got who knows it's got to be in the hundreds of thousands of elite MMA athletes world I mean if I say elite I mean like guys who could fight professionally I would I would say this problem I mean they might not all be fighting professionally yet But they're at that level when you introduce amateurs and you think about how many Thousands and thousands and thousands of gyms there are and out of those gyms how many people have like people that are at a very high level Fuck it's crazy. So this is a new thing like I say this all the time But it really is accurate martial arts have evolved more in the last 33 years than they have in the last 33,000 years And that is true because from the time the UFC came about in 1993 I mean the Brazilians were way ahead the Brazilians were way the Gracie family in particular way ahead curve They were pursuing this and looking into this in the 1940s and 50s like Elio Gracie was having mixed martial arts competitions in the 1940s You know they were having what they called it Valley to do was anything goes and they were having fights in the ring in front of large groups of people Long before the UFC was ever around, you know Hicks and Gracie famously had them when he was 18 years old when he became the champion of the family I mean he was he was defeating much larger people when he was 18 Yeah, I remember watching that back in the day to like peak UFC not peak It's big now. I still go to it now, but watching like GSP in his heyday back and stuff like that It's just we get well that was peak emergence peak emergence. Yeah, it's like 2005 on so 2005 was the ultimate fighter and It's very rare when one moment really sort of defines the growth of a sport But you can find that in MMA and in that one moment was the Stefan Bonner for a scriffin fight in the finals of the ultimate fighter on Spike TV got millions and millions of people watching it like more than anything anybody never watched on Spike TV Yeah, and it was just because it was so good It was so crazy and you see the rise of people watching it They could they could track the ratings in real time so people were calling their friends going dude You gotta fucking watch this turn on Spike TV This is crazy and they were watching it and it changed the entire course of martial arts forever.
Yeah that one fight I mean for me the one my watershed moment was like GSP bisping like watching When GSP went up a weight class and what year was that? 2017 or somewhere around there. Yeah went up to middleweight Yeah, but for me it was just like okay now I'm obsessed because this guy's just done So I thought I love GSP. I know him, but I didn't think I didn't know at the time I just thought I don't know this is gonna be tough And just to watch somebody go up another weight class and go and win in this like I just it was amazing It was a big GSP is not even a big welterweight You know GSP when you look at welterweight today GSP is the size of a large middleweight or excuse me a large lightweight today A large 155 pounder today walks around like 160 right now or something that's light I think he's heavier than that is in the 80s.
It's maybe in the maybe even 90s Well, it's time to go on how much he's weightlifting and what he's doing. I thought he was less bad He's definitely heavier than that but in his prime. He would hover around the high 190s and then cut down to 170 Yeah, he was beast in that fight to be like there's guys now like do you you fall closely like top contenders? Not closely not like I should know not as closely as I should I mean I'll watch the big events or like you know, there's this cat Michael Morales is one of the scariest guys in the hundred seventy pound division He's a fucking monster like a really really dangerous guy and he's enormous He gets well over 220 well over 220 and gets down to 170 and cuts at the last minute No, he cuts it slowly over time But then he rehydrates and reinflates and when you see inside the octagon You're like how the fuck and I don't know how many times he can do that so that is a body very brutal on the kidneys it is essentially a Death door event you're getting to death door you're getting to death door 24 hours before you have to fight in a cage And then you're rehydrating yourself and replenishing yourself not to 100% by the way.
No, you can't you're not Yeah, there's no way. So this is how big Morales is he's fucking enormous dude And he's so powerful. He's absolutely huge for the weight class when you see him He looks like a light heavyweight he really does because he is I mean He's basically like 220 pounds down He looks like a big middleweight when he's in there But yet somehow or another he makes it to 170 and he's undefeated and not just undefeated in the UFC He's starching people and he's a wrestler who very rarely wrestles and he has a judo background very rarely uses that It's kind of like a getcha Okay, just a getcha Yeah, he does away But this guy is much bigger and just a real seek and destroy welterweight and one of the absolute top contenders terrifying human Yeah, I just meant that getcha was a really good wrestling and you hardly ever seen wrestling right right well It takes a lot of energy to wrestle people that's part of the problem in order to grapple and constantly shoot and take people down It's one of the most energy intensive aspects of MMA like shooting on someone you're exploding a lot energy and then you're wrestling with them So you're you're grappling with all their strength using technique and leverage And then you have to hoist their body up in the air and slam them to the ground get that take them And you can only do that so many times Which is one of the reasons why my Rob is so fucking extraordinary is the fact that that guy can do that full blast for five rounds It's insane his cardio should be studied in a fucking laboratory because he's a real freak Yeah, he's a real freak But very few people have that he breaks world-class fighters like you know Umar and Nomer come in off like when he fought him like he almost like couldn't believe this guy was still doing this Like deep into the fifth round like it was just so crazy his his work output and most people don't have that So most people when they're really good grapplers they develop a style It's like a mix of grappling and striking because there's time even could be like one of the rounds with Conor McGregor He never shot for takedown. Yeah, it's the round the corner one And it's because he just chose to stand because he had to like realize like okay I burned so much energy in the first couple rounds going after this guy taking him down smashing them I can't keep this up.
I have to take around where I don't burn off as much energy and let my body recover a bit Yeah, the White House fight I watched that from my cabin out North Dakota The event at the West I was alone I've shown you pictures cabin out in the middle of nowhere with my father's cabin That I bought back in the family like four years ago We built it from the ground up and I was like I'm in the perfect place to watch this fight I was so hyped up like watching the whole thing like my son was coming downstairs Not now much the fight like me alone watch the fight. Oh, it's cheering. I was crazy I just remember watching Iliad talk and he was on your podcast wasn't he saying he was just gonna decimate gay chick Yeah, and that it was gonna be easy and I said man I don't know how you could think a lot of people were saying to me like when I was saying Justin has a huge chance And they were going all you're hyping this fight up. I know what you do like Irish if you're accused me of that I was like oh, I know what you're doing the guy was gonna lose your your saying has a chance I go no he has a real fucking chance.
He's insanely durable is extremely experienced in very high-level competition against world-class fighters And he's been in the deep trenches where you're in hell like if you're in a war Like the wars that he had like with Justin Poire had a war here that war with Max Holloway He's been in those trench wars where it's four and five rounds you've been beaten up fucking three rounds your body's broken Yeah, you're exhausted and yet you have to persevere and press on he's a freakin nature. He's amazing So Tyler from our tree country is good friend of mine. We were in Vegas for the patty fight with Geisha Mm-hmm that you were gracious enough to invite me to and um we I don't gamble and but we were leaving a casino We were there for some reason and I think I had like a hundred bucks in my pocket So Tyler and I were like we're gonna go back or go to the fight I think actually we're going to the fight so I sat down like a three-card poker table And I was like it's easy game. Let's just play like I got a hundred bucks Let's just do this so I ended up getting up to like a thousand dollars at the three-card poker table with Tyler So I was like dude like let's just leave like we've got the money like let's just get out of here So we're walking out of the casino and he says hey Why don't we put money on the gauge of fight tonight against Pimblet and I was like okay So I'd like download an app and we went to the thing and like place the bet at the place and we both were like we've got But on Justin like it's gotta go this way is like you know cuz and he was the underdog he was he under dog for sure because I got paid I put down five hundred or something like that.
Wow that's crazy certified that but I'm 99% sure because I got a big payday on it I made like I think I got two thousand bucks Or maybe fifteen hundred or something like that not know why he'd be the young yeah Yeah, there's a pimble is a favorite Justin Gage is under Wow. Yeah, so we put minus two thirty eight That's crazy So we we put that five hundred apiece that we won playing three card But I won playing three card poker on Justin Wow, and then we got paid and it was in like my draft Kings Account or whatever whatever the money got deposited I didn't even know how to get to the money I just had fifteen hundred bucks there so at the White House fight I called Tyler that night that day of and I said dude I'm just gonna put all of this money back on Justin again And he's like I already took my money out I should have done that and I was like I mean it was a hundred bucks And now it's fifteen hundred bucks So I put it all on the one and he was the underdog again for the iliified yeah So it ended up being like 6k Wow I turned from a hundred dollars into like 6k and then I took it out and use it to rebuild my house So Justin I owe Justin my my upstairs. I paid for all the flooring upstairs from Justin's fists. That's a good way to gamble Yeah, that's good.
That's good healthy gamble never do it again, but it was awesome I mean I had one run yeah, I'm very conflicted about gambling because I've met a lot of gambling addicts I know a lot again because I come from the pool world, you know and the pool world was filled with gambling I was my first real exposure the people that are addicted they would go to off track betting before they ever got to the pool Hall then they show up at the pool hall during the day they'd have stories the fucking horse I bet on this whole house he didn't come in they were all addicts and then they were all be looking for action either They played gin there's guys that played gin or they played poker There was like a whole like elevated level where it's like seating and stuff where it was like above the pool tables What guys would hang out and have card games and then they would gamble on pool games and everybody was just in action It was in everyone was in action and part of me is like oh, you know gambling can be destructive right? But it wasn't for me. So why is that so isn't it like isn't it a Personal control thing like isn't it like recognizing what's detrimental to you and what's positive isn't that a bunch of aspects of life? Like I'm pro alcohol too, but I recognize that people could become alcoholics Right, but isn't that also like a personal control thing?
Yeah Like should you shouldn't you know what you can do and what you can't do and isn't the real thing learning how to control yourself? I mean, so I don't have any problems gambling at all and I know wait too many people who enjoy it to ever like come out against gambling But yet I have friends that are staunchly anti gambling and they think that these gambling apps are terrible and think these casinos are terrible And then we should outlaw all of it. I'm like man. They're just chev it underground Yeah, let's also people have enjoyed that since the beginning of time and then also coming from the world that I come from Coming from the pool world gambling is a huge part of how you get good at pool One of the things about pool is stakes like you know the term pool it comes from pooling money together to gamble now I did not know that's not called pool.
It's called pocket billiards So there is the original billiards game well There's a game that is also still played in a lot of Latin American countries south Korea They're really big on it and it's called three cushion billiards and three cushion billiards is a game that you play on a table That doesn't have any pockets and what it is is you have three balls and the key is understanding Geometry and force and spin and how it affects the rails so the rails are all these rubber rails and in three cushion billiards You contact one ball and then you have to go three cushions Contact the second ball and then the the original ball So you're contacting these these three balls, but also hitting three cushions, huh? Yeah or two two balls But also hitting hitting three cushions so you can't just hit one ball into another ball There's a there's an old billiard game where they did that but it's a very boring game But this three cushion game is a much more dynamic form of it So that's billiards and then there's pocket billiards So pocket billiards is what people think of as pool is where you're shooting ball into a hole Huh? There's six holes on the table so pool comes from the term of pooling money together to gamble on pocket billiards Yeah, so when you go to a pool hall that's a gambling hall That's what they were and so in New York City at the turn of the century the turn of the 20th century I think there was some insane number of pool halls just in New York City. I think it was over a thousand Wow, yep And it was a lot of these guys especially in the 1940s and the guys coming home from the war they didn't have families and it was a bachelor culture And these guys they didn't want to be a part of society anymore They just wanted to you know unplug unplug and be a part of this world of men where men got together and they gambled and they smoked And they talked shit and they and that's one engaged in a lot of vice You know there's and that was also when I was exposed to drugs like a lot of drugs How old are you at this time 23?
Yeah about 23 maybe 24 when I really started playing a lot and a lot of these guys There's the first time I ever saw anybody do heroin. Yeah, it was a guy who was a world-class pool player He had two nicknames one of them was Buffalo bill and the other one was water dog and this guy He was a world-class pool player who's also heroin addict and what he would do is he would go into the bathroom And everybody knew what was going on you go to the bathroom lock the door shoot up And they would come out and he would sit on one of those billiards chairs So he'd sit on like it's like a big bar stool with like arms on it. He'd sit there like this I just passed out. No just just zone down for like 20 minutes Just high as fucking heroin and then come back And then when he's back he was ready to play and his eyes as fucking pupils were huge Just remember it was like he had durable eyes like shark eyes and he couldn't miss I mean it was insane watching a play he were playing there's a table in executive billiards in White Plains, New York Where I used to play table one had these tiny little pockets because it was the gambling table So the table the pockets were just just shy of four inches So you couldn't fit two balls in them and they were very gaffy meaning like the way the angles were cut like it was like The way it was made was kind of half-hazard the way they wedge these things in there to make the pockets tighter It wasn't perfect.
I'll give you hit the point a little bit with bottle out It wasn't it was very difficult to be accurate on this table and this fucking guy couldn't miss he was playing for ten thousand dollars Oh, I was watching this guy I was watching this guy play for ten thousand dollars And he the other guy the guy was playing this guy George the Greek who was a famous gambler and George would be yelling on this motherfucker He can't play without his shit. He's got to take that fucking shit So he's trying to distract him while he's playing and this guy just just couldn't miss just moving around the table Seeing all the angles it's like to him the game was simple And it was just when he was on heroin and he had to do heroin and I ran into him years later So I knew him in New York and then I moved to California and this was like 95 96 I was playing in this tournament in Bellflower, California This is legendary pool hall that used to exist there There's still one is Sacramento, but there's one in Bellflower that was called hard times and hard times was the mecca when I was playing pool In New York everybody's talking about hard times hard times was all the gambling was and all the great players the Filipino players would go there And they had this big Sunday tournament and so I would go and play in the Sunday tournament because anybody could play I just get killed every week, but I'd go anyway just to be able to play like world-class players and to watch and just have fun and Water dogs there and I go hey man. What are you doing out here? And he's like yeah, I took a trip I took a trip to California You know just try to get in some action because I want to get in the tournament, but I don't have any money I go all put you in so it's only like I don't remember was 25 bucks get the tournament Oh, and so I said I put you in he goes.
I gotta go get my shit and I was like what I go get your shit He goes I need a ride. I'm not driving you and he goes come on. He goes you gotta give me a ride It's fine. Don't worry, but I had a nice car at the time my first nice car at a Toyota super turbo nice I loved it.
Yeah, I was like I can't drive those confiscate my car. I'm trying to say highline You can you can get in real trouble and he wouldn't he wouldn't play like or he wouldn't accept that I wouldn't take him there So I put him in anyway, he played so over he played terrible He was angry like wasn't playing good like rotten like he tells a mess and he's just I could have won the tournament He was that good I grew up in Canada for a few years my trick three years and I remember reading I don't know who this is and I hope Jamie can look it up for me Jamie if you don't mind But there was a story of a goaltender that would play on drugs and I want to say it was something crazy Maybe it was something simple like cocaine But he would take the drugs before a hockey match because it made the world look slower And it made him a better goaltender and he said it was like the ball The puck became like catching a beach ball or something like that grant fewer that's him Edmonton Oilers and hockey hall of fame goaltender So he publicly admitted abusing cocaine for about seven years or using it correctly. Why is they abusing? Yeah, he used it correctly rumors and reports circulated about cocaine use involving several members of the powerhouse Edmonton Oilers dynasty Including a well-known 1986 sports illustrator report though Fure was the most high-profile player to face official league discipline regarding well probably because he admitted it right I mean I remember hearing him say like yeah 1990 admitted it publicly Yeah, and I was a child then so I'd have been eight at that time But I was living in Canada where everything was hockey like you were not it was hockey night in Canada It was most of the bat blue and the whole like I when I moved there as in second grade and I only knew football and Coaches like yeah, we only play hockey here.
I'm like I've never played hockey. It's like well you do now And I was like well, I'm mom were poor. We don't have any money. This is like an exercise.
Well, there's like cocaine look at that Haha cocky news Wow Shit, but all I did was watch hockey They made you and I told them I was like we can't afford hockey gear all of the kids on the team donated a hockey bag full of gear That coach brought it to my house This is like a little town called Plum Cooley Manitoba like East of Winkler small town 300 people and they're like you play hockey now And I started learning to skate and did that for like three years and it was just all everything was hockey There was no choice in it. It was it's crazy. It's religion up there. It was total religion Yeah, and it was I remember hearing that story about that guy and it made me think of that when you were saying that and that's strange That's so strange that people get better when they're in these altered states well Ariel Helwani posted something on Twitter today that someone sent me because it was pretty interesting and it was about this guy who's a Goley, so you can find it.
We talk about how interesting and introspective this guy isn't a fascinating thinker and this guy's very intelligent I don't know his name I don't follow hockey unfortunately, but he was talking about how he has to be in an unconscious state to play Goley and that as when he's in his conscious state like he's joking around and talking to people and laughing and having fun with his teammates Then he's conscious and he's thinking he's thinking too much So he has to achieve this unconscious state in order to just react as to be a better goalie But it was a feeling find it like a flow state almost Yeah, and the way he described it was really interesting because I get that I understand what he's saying because you get that with everything I cannot talk and play pool if I talk and play pool I'll play like shit Like I'm talking to my buddies and having fun I get frustrated like I got to stop talking because if I'm talking I can't like listen Yeah, this is the guy listen to this about 34 saves in your night just how you felt and what you saw as you looked up from your crease yes I felt nothing the the problem with me is that I have a lot of fun playing but when I start having too much fun It makes me into from an unconscious goalie to a conscious goalie and my conscious brain is really bad at playing goalie So I have to like let my unconscious brain do the work because it reacts a lot quicker Well, I'm having too much fun and I'm smiling I'm talking to everybody and I'm hanging out What happens is that's just me in a more conscious brain goalie and then I can't react in time and then I'm slow I'm behind the play and then I give up seven goals, you know But today was just unconscious like don't think about anything, you know if you ask me how I made it say I have no idea just my unconscious brain does it and that's what you work and practice for you know Well, you felt nothing during the game But I wonder what you felt like after when you're doing the three stars and you hear the crowd and when the buzzer went That's like okay now you can let it all go so you get a huge rush of like dopamine and serotonin and adrenaline It's just like goosebumps. It's the best feeling in the world It's like the biggest reason why I love to play and yeah, then you can just let it all out now I can smile and enjoy myself, but yeah like TV time out to between period I'm like don't smile don't talk anyone just focus on your game. Let your unconscious brain do it and it was great Yeah, what is this guy's name Jamie? Does it say and Ariel's?
Okay, I don't follow cocky anymore But it's the same as you were talking about with Archie when you're shooting a deer, right? Yeah, like you're going through this process. You're thinking you're going through it But it's like you just trying to stay focused and afterwards over you like oh yeah now you can be conscious and aware of this moment like wow Yeah, it's a flow state and coolie Devon Cooley amazing the only other place that I ever experienced that was in the military Like we would plan for six months for an operation and do all this intelligence gathering going into an operation where blood and treasures on the line I'm one of the operational blood and treasure. I like how you put that Well, that's the always the state when I was collecting intelligence Those are always the stakes that I kept foremost in my mind is that collect this like blood and treasures online like our country's Money and the taxpayer that has to labor every day to pay these fucking taxes and the blood of the people your brothers that you love Are the ones that are going into this because I was like I said before I'm not the long tabber I'm not the cool guy I was the nerd for the cool guys so I treated it like it was like the like the outcome of the entire operation depended on me Is always what went to my brain?
That was the only way that I went into this and if I wasn't totally locked in but when the one I would be on a hill Or in a helicopter or in a Humvee watching an operation go down based off of my intelligence work I would get into that same flow state I get with bow hunting bow hunting when I was retiring from the military I was so stressed out so I had no idea what I was gonna do that was gonna replicate replicate this experience I was like where am I gonna get this flow state from and it dawned on me while I was in the military that helping hunters in the same way Self-targeting problems is helping you know, J. Sock guys or Rangers or or green army guys That sense of completion that I would get at the end like when bad guys were dead or arrested or you know a terrorist operation was sunk Based off of all that work was just like the most addictive feeling in the world It's a very addictive feeling and that flow state that would get into when I was doing work that was particularly meaningful is such a hard thing to replicate It's like a place you have to find yourself and it's not a place you can put yourself in mm-hmm You have to get there like start doing the work start putting things together start thinking here is what do we got here? I mean a friend of mine taught me this a long time ago. I don't think you probably learned it in college some work Oh, I've seen this.
Yes. Yes unconscious incompetence conscious incompetence unconscious competence and conscious completion Unconscious the last one. Okay, so the idea is that you start from ignorance and we're all aware of a lack of knowledge of skill exists And then you go into conscious incompetence We're aware that a lack of knowledge and a skill exists We're unaware initially and then you go to we are able to use the new skill with effort So that's conscious competence and then mastery we're able to use the skill easily without effort Yeah, it gets integrated into and then starts over again when you learn something new Yeah, and that's why people are addicted to learning things now. Yeah from the beginning beginner stage is very important Very good for the mind and becoming a beginner at new things.
I think is one of the best things person can do Especially a new difficult thing like bow hunting or like jujitsu or like golf or like any yoga anything that's hard to do Like learning it in the beginning. It's very exciting and very good for the mind And I think one of the things that happens to people they stop doing that and then their brain Atrophies, yeah, they're brain atrophies the same way your muscles atrophy when you no longer use it And that skill or the the experience rather of learning a new skill learning learning a new world a new universe that you are now engrossed in Very very beneficial. So good for your ego, too Yeah, just I don't think as I get better at anything whether it's building apps military operations My limited time in doing things like jujitsu like I just rejoined or was trying attempting to rejoin a gym But I'm gonna find a different one Just knowing there's a thing in life like when I when you get really good at something you actually start to learn how much you don't know Right, it's like you've just uncovered a new world of like holy shit I really don't know anything I thought I was getting towards the top and this was a false mountain and now the big I won't look at a mountain I started the climb I got to the top and I'm like oh shit This is even the mountain I was looking at that's over there Dennis McKenna had a great expression about this he said I'm gonna fuck this up But it's essentially I'm paraphrasing it that as you expand the bonfire of Knowledge it highlights the surface area of ignorance That's pretty good Yeah And that the more you learn and the more it expands this this understanding that you have of the world you live in the more it highlights How much you don't know and that's why people that pretend they know it all are so fucking dangerous as the bonfire of knowledge grows brighter The more the darkness is revealed to our startled eyes. That's Terrence I think his brother was the original I think that's someone's paraphrasing that I think they're attributing that to Terrence when Dennis I think because I'm pretty I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Terrence is quoting Dennis Either way both brilliant guys.
Yeah, it's like the it's like the yin yang thing like have one foot in the competence of what you learned and then another foot in the unconscious in Competence of what you don't know or what you know you don't know and it's like one of those things too is like as you begin to learn These things you realize I almost become ashamed When I see how great I can be in certain like how good one of the things my grandmother taught me all these pearls of wisdom That I come back to now because there's a significant amount of time where I've been raised by my grandparents My grandmother used to say be good for goodness sakes. Hmm and as a kid I was like whatever grandma Isn't that like Santa Claus? I don't know it'd be good good. I think it's from that song I think that's right But you'd always say like when I was fucking up she'd like be good for goodness sakes like just be good Right I threw that away, but she like put a seed I think Annie said I put that can of food on the on the in the pantry of my mind and come back to it later because now in my adulthood It's like I'm always trying to You know be good, but also for no reward in itself Like one of the things that's funny story I always tell is when my wife and kids when I go to poison my children at McDonald's every once in a while I always pay for the vehicle behind me So we'll go through and you know we have this thing and my kids are always like looking at the vehicle behind because I always tell the Person that McDonald's like I'm paying for the person behind me I do this in other places in my life much more meaningfully But this is a good example and it's one time the ladies like are you sure you want to pay for the people behind you and like my wife looks at me And she's like you know, what's the problem?
She's like it's gonna be like 170 bucks or something and I was like well I don't do it right now So I'm gonna pay for them and then as we're pulling away Just like big group of like, you know a bunch of kids just going nuts that their food is paid for But I would often engage in those types of things because it made me feel good and that's probably the wrong reason to be gracious And as I've gotten older, why is it bad to feel good though? You're doing a good thing and you feel good doing good things self-centric about it I say that all the time that there's something selfish about being generous Yeah And so now I try to do it with no expectation that the person will ever know who did it and My hope is that they'll walk around saying they're angels in the world or good people in the world that do like I'll never know who this person is So now I try to do big meaningful with things in that way, but that was the pearl that my grandmother dropped me with be good for goodness sakes Like I'm just being good for goodness sakes not doing it because it's gonna inflate my ego I'm not doing it because I'm gonna go tell people what I've done Like I'll never tell people these things I'll use them McDonald's analogy because it's easy one That's not like I'm not this benevolent guy, but trying to do it in that way It's just you know these old ways of doing things and these old things that people have start to come full circle Then you realize there's a ton of frickin profundity in these things that we can leverage and try to make ourselves better people by doing it It's interesting that idea that there's Knowledge that's in us that we don't know and that we've been given whether I guess is through genetics or lack of better term Or through whatever soul transmission, but you know if you wear that there's a young Chinese kid who did an experiment with Moths and he ran this experiment with moths in the caterpillar stage And he found out that through the transformation from a moth to a caterpillar You know they essentially become like mush and then re-emerge as a caterpillar once they go into the cocoon like this is like very intense Metabolic transformation where their body's like broken down to this mush and then becomes a butterfly That or a moth that this Knowledge is transmitted through that process and not just that but it's also transmitted to their offspring somehow or another I've been proven this happy genetics. Yeah, but this kid proved this like physically with these animals with these insects See me find a video saying it and then I'll link on that it is something to do with lavender They use a scent and the scent when they encounter the scent they develop this like they They had something where there was like a vibration and when they encounter the scent there's an uncomfortable vibration the experience So they avoided that scent and he could prove that the moths had trans that it had gone from the caterpillar stage and the moths still Retain that memory and then also it had been transmitted to their offspring I believe we have skinner also did this with rats right with mazes right yeah, yeah and with the smell of cats right Something along those lines so the rat things really interesting too because this puts it right the skinner right this also puts it into the Principle of morphic resonance, you know like the idea is that your So this is one of the things they've shown is that if you teach rats on the east coast how to navigate a maze rats on the west coast Can navigate that maze quicker. Yeah, yeah, this is you Rupert Sheldrick's work Yeah, strange very weird stuff because I think we're very We have this narrow-minded perception of what knowledge is and what information is and where it is and where it's coming from It's like that thing that you see somebody you get the ick yeah like well I don't know what you're getting like maybe you're getting there's maybe it's powdered recognition Maybe it's not maybe there's like a there's a sense that we have that's undefined Yeah, that you can't put a ruler to or you can't put on a scale But there's something there that we're not totally aware of that allows us to stay safe and has been inside of us forever I think it's like a framing problem because like the Greeks would say the spirit of war and That I don't think they meant like a flying demon or something or like, you know They didn't mean that there's this God of war and he's a physical entity I think they mean this is a persistent thing across all classes of humans that no matter who they are this is inside of them And so it's like a god to us.
It's a god because it rules us We don't it doesn't have we don't have it. It has us. What's that spirit that comes out? What I was talking about with protests.
Yes, exactly. Yeah, there's a mob mentality Yeah, this thing that happens to us. Yeah, and so that's why I say I don't make a lot of distinction between God the collective unconscious or transcendent reality It's this abyss of unknowing that we are fortunate to tap into every once in a while right and pull something out of it and Like it was interesting I watched your interview with JD Vance and you guys were talking about the difference between like what he conceptualizes a demon and what you conceptualize as an alien And I just think that was a mismatch impedance I think you guys could be talking about the same thing, but you're using a regionally accepted formal lexicon to describe it But you're but you could be saying the same thing so perhaps what I had a purpose to why I was questioning him on that Yeah, my purpose is that my my perception was that he was signaling to a certain group of very religious voters Yes, I know you know I mean yeah, no, I know that's why I was so I don't know if I messaged you about this or not I believe I did but it blew my mind that people were talking shit that you had him on It's like why wouldn't you want the vice president like there are a bunch of comments like oh so-and-so's here big freaking deal Look we're in a hot war and there's a lot of shit going on in the world And even if Joe's been told he can't ask about certain things like you talk about with Kamala I still want the guy talking for three hours I didn't know any requests from him Well, I'm just saying even if that happened I still want those people talking for three hours because you can't sit for three hours and talk and not reveal yourself Right like I mean, thanks Doth protest too much Like you will talk about the things that are going on even if you don't want to just get the person talking And that's what I think is a beauty of this podcast for a myriad reasons One of them is everyone can come on here and just talk and people will reveal themselves in those three hours You will get to the nexus of who someone is Over that three hours And that's why I want Bernie on here or I want JD on here I want Trump on here Kamala and when someone won't come on to the biggest podcast in the world who's running for high office Then we should a spat with that person and it doesn't matter if it is this podcast or another one the biggest if you can't sit there and talk about your principles And you're organizing criteria of how you that way you metabolize the world And why you think you're the one who's fit to change it if you can't talk Extemporaneously about that I don't want you in high office because you're not revealing yourself Right, you're not revealing yourself. You're probably a construct.
Yes, you probably you probably have this thing that you're promoting This this image that you're pursuing and that you're trying to get the general public to accept. That's not totally real Yeah, this isn't Fox News for 15 minutes where you get the talking points, right? That's that's the issue with those things This is just not enough of an understanding of who that person is and in a long form podcast you do get that understanding I get why people have that sense you shouldn't platform people I think that instinct is incorrect if I didn't like someone I want them platform No, but not only that that you already know them like they're already out there They're not gonna make them more popular. They are who they are right but like there's certain times like the Trump interview Was a good one where you've never got a chance to see that guy talk that way in and in a really a non-combative situation It's almost all media that he did is either kiss in his ass like on Fox News or trying to take everything he said out of context It was binary.
Yeah, and you know and you get a chance to see someone communicate for a long period of time I got so much shit about Trump after the podcast with you when I gave him like a C plus or something Mm-hmm. That was a majority of my messages where they matter. You don't understand Trump in what he's doing There's 40 chess here and you're not getting it. Oh 40 chess one's great And I was like, okay, please elucidate me on what's going on right now because I'm not getting it But because I was for him in the beginning and then when everything started going tip He pops you turn me and I wasn't able to you know rationally predict what the next step was gonna be now I'm the bad guy.
It's like look I just wanted like these five things and I'm not getting them I'm getting one of them. Yeah, can we have a discussion about the other four and so I just It's like you said people aren't gonna get changed There's no one's gonna listen to your podcast with Kamala and say you know what I was a right-wing guy You know before this podcast right now But the thing is there are a bunch of people that she could have reached that are in the middle for sure Yes, absolutely where I think there was a missed opportunity and I think a lot of people agree to that or who want to know more about her Like the one thing I'll say a good thing about Trump. I've met him a few times I was on stage with him in North Carolina He's really good at like summing one up and someone up summing someone up quickly like when I first met him I'm like sugar sand he's like see like the AI guy you the AI guy you AI Know I was like well, yeah, I mean I was a soldier in the military. I kind of learned it Well, I was there and he's like soldier.
I could see you being central casting AI. I don't think so and that was our conversation And I was like this guy's like he just summed the other like a second like cuz I you know I'm more soldier than I am that and he said some other things But that was about it and I just stood behind him on stage for a couple of hours But um, you know, it's he's got a ability. He's got this comedic timing, which I think is like unheard of Pretty good, but there's other things I just disagree with and that's it's a free world. I disagree.
It's very clear that You don't have ultimate power as president. No, you can't just do things. Thank God for it. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, I mean, that's what the whole process is supposed to be about.
That's that's the reason why we have Congress and Senate. It's the reason why all that stuff exists. What do you think? What do you think we're looking at Gavin Newsom and I don't think so or someone like that?
I don't think he's too much for liability. I don't think they're gonna There's just too much going on with them. Well, just I mean unless they were severely desperate I think it's probably gonna be someone who's not tainted in the public eye Someone you know because we buy narrative so quickly we we hated or I don't say we a lot of people hated Kamala Harris As a vice president and then also she was our savior. Yeah, and they did that quickly Yeah, you know, there's there's a way that they can promote things especially now through bots and social media and social media is infested with nonsense.
It's infested with bots is infested with completely fake stories There's so many stories that I read like national news stories that are absolutely fake on X and that people just put up there And I think they're trying to discourage that somehow I think you know like you you don't get as much money from do because there's things like you get money from posting on X I don't but some people do like you sign up and it's people that make their living. I knew they had that I mean age book. Oh, yeah, I have an ex. Yeah, okay people make their living with engagement But the bots are a real thing I can speak personally to that like I pulled the string on the bot stuff looking at how they get funded Where they ran out of the people that are behind them why they do them how they do them?
And it's such a real thing to a degree that people just don't understand how they're being manipulated by these things It's enormous It's an enormous market billions and it's it's funded in ways that I think would surprise people And thank God for things like data links leaks and things like it where we can get to this information Or just the fact that there's campaign finance laws and that money has to be routed and accounted for and these types of things So that people can pull the string on and understand how things are being manipulated. It should be illegal It really should be I am all four people being able to express their opinions But it should be an individual's opinions or the opinions of an individual that represents an organization if you're a spokesperson for an organization You want to tweet something? Okay, no problem with that But I think that organized campaigns where you know, let's say in particular like there's some sort of big social issue some some some thing that's going on in the world or some thing that involves our civil society our culture and then you have either a Foreign country or you have an intelligence agency or you have a corporation that's funding This propaganda narrative this fake viewpoint and making it look like people are in lockstep with this And then you've got a lot of people that if that whatever that narrative is attached to the ideology they identify with whether it's left Wing or right wing then those people will start parroting those points And you'll see it you see this like sheep like behavior with people and it has a tremendous effect on how we view things as a culture And I think it should be illegal I think you should have to be a person post for yourself Yeah, even if you post even if you're not named you should have to authenticate some way if you're going to enter the zeitgeist of public any of these types of things because I mean the other thing about Facebook and social media these are things that people don't realize is They can feed you the narrative and put it on the vector that helps you metabolize it in the best way in other words If a public person is running for office and you might only agree with 10% of what this public person thinks there are ways to manipulate the algorithm So you only fed that 10% right so you only understand It's that you're only getting what you agree with with this particular politician and there might be 10 other things You don't agree with that you're not going to see unless you pull the thread yourself and unfortunately Just a lot of people don't pull the thread themselves because they're busy They have to make money they have families and so they're only getting one side of the story and then it's being monetized Which is also really gross. It's just super dangerous.
It's super dangerous. It's so super dangerous super dangerous. It's super dangerous. It's super dangerous.
It's super easy to manipulate us It's like there's never been a better time to use propaganda on the society than today Yeah, and I watch the ways I've been in the past how it's happened to me So it's like not immune to this even though I understand a lot of it how it's happening none of us are You're certainly not immune to your algorithm your algorithm in the echo chamber that you exist in they just constantly bombard you with one sided opinions Yeah, it's a weird time in terms of truth and you know and everyone has to figure out what's the best way for them to engage with that Mind the way that I do it. I only look at things that people send me someone has to send me something interesting I'm not seeking anything out anymore. It's just too much. It's too negative Yeah, you'll drown in it you'll drown in it and it also takes away from your time It's it's such a time suck and such an attention suck and it will wasted it's wasted energy And I always try to explain it to people in terms of I try to look at my attention and my energy of the day as units Yes I have a hundred units and if I spend 30 those units concentrating on nonsense and horseshit I've wasted 30 units very precious units It's only a certain amount of days in a year and a certain amount of years in your life I was gonna say that about gambling the reason I don't like gambling is because if I throw down a hundred dollars That's an hour of my time And it makes me worried like I only have so much time like I'm throwing an hour away Yeah, I just threw an hour to this casino I think I would gamble on fights if I wasn't involved in UFC I think I would do that because I think I'm pretty good at it.
It's even to the fight. Yeah, if you got money on gachin He starts to knock down elia to pull your like oh shit. I was doing cartwheels in my living room Yeah, but I just think about things this time and so when I had that three grand I'm like well This is what's would take me I think of my personal time I build it about a hundred bucks an hour is about how I look at my personal time So that's that's the time I can't get back or I've just gained a bunch of time by getting that 3,000 bucks I get nervous when I think about getting rid of it like I don't like to spend like that I want to be able to pull the thread and you said it is units I would say money units it doesn't matter because time ultimately in the final analysis the only thing we can't make more of right And I think to live a better life use your time wisely and that is an old age old expression I know that one of those pearls of wisdom is your time wisely only so much of it. Yeah, it's so finite Yeah, I mean it's so funny when I have days where I do nothing on purpose where I just I'm burnt out I've done too much and I just like to vegetate I just like to hang out from the TV and watch cool shit I just want to be entertained Yeah, but I'm amazed how much time flies by it was like sometimes I'll be watching just YouTube documentaries And it's five hours later.
I'm like fuck yeah, COVID feels like yesterday right it does it does it does it does it really does it's nuts It's nuts. We live in a very unique moment in history And I think about to become even more unique in which ways with AI. Yeah, I think the way AI is gonna transform society is going to be Unlike anything that's ever happened before. How do you think it's gonna transform society?
Well, I think jobs are gonna be eliminated That's a big one eliminated eliminated. I think there's gonna be no use for people for a lot of things to be able to do right now What time scalar we talking 10 years maximum maximum? Yeah maximum in 10 years the world is gonna be unrecognizable That's what I think So, how do you feel if you think this will happen? Do you think we're on that course already?
Yes, and that it That all jobs will be subsumed. No, not all jobs I think creative endeavors are always gonna exist. It's always gonna be human beings or is gonna have the need for human connection We're always gonna want to see live sports or always gonna see want to see live music live comedy is always gonna exist I think going to the movies is a great sort of a community experience I used to love going to comedy movies comedy movies when they used to make them Oh, yeah, fucking garbage Woke killed comedy movies. Yeah, we used to be able to go and you're laughing really hard with a whole group of people You don't know just like going to a comedy club It's very similar in a lot of ways I was telling my wife about your comedy club And I said it's the closest thing to 1996 that I can get to and she's like well what are you talking about?
I'm like well you lock your phone away you go in there There's no worry about someone recording something people get to go on stage and talk shit And you're just you just feel like you're back in a plate like no one's sitting there So I hate watching like people like dinner and both of them are scrolling their phones and you don't see any of that It is just shit talking and fun and you're with your buddies and you're laughing and it's just a great experience And so I have a theory about AI with when it comes to what you just talked about So I think we're in agreement in at least one thing and I think what's gonna I think what's gonna happen is if you look at like the number one movie in 2020 or 2019 was like Avengers endgame or Avengers infinity We're those two movies highly digitized times of CGI Everything's getting done in front of a green screen And it made you know two billion dollars or over a billion I don't remember exactly what the number was and then you look at this last year and the biggest movie per dollar spent was Obsession which was made by a YouTube creator who was doing stuff out of his basement a few years earlier So I think your to your point about people wanting genuine human interaction My theory is it pertains AI is AI will become ubiquitous in certain ways. It will run it will eventually unfortunately or unfortunately run Massive parts of the economy. It will run a lot of things But what what will happen with people will get sick and a few years your daughters are gonna be able to send you an Avengers movie Where it's you are a Shane right now Well, I'm saying like with a prompt They'll make a two-hour movie and it'll just be the Avengers movie and it will look Uninstingetrable from another movie and you'll get sick of that quick and then people I think things like regional theater houses My wife and I's favorite thing to do is go to the Nutcracker at Christmas time and DC at the National Theater Those things will start springing up and they'll be easier to spring up because to start a business to start an LLC If you have a novel idea you're looking at thirty to a hundred thousand dollars of negotiating red tape in government In order to start a business AI is gonna make that super easy and I think in a few years we're gonna see theaters I think we're gonna see I agree with Elon and that prices are gonna get way cheaper to make something production scale wise Amazon's gonna be you'll be able to buy a coffee table for a dollar two dollars three dollars I think there will be a large deflationary effect where products are gonna get cheaper and the quality of life will go up because more people Will be able to buy cheaper things and if you're living on ten thousand dollars a year You're gonna be able to live really well in the coming years because of AI But because people will be able to set up businesses easier like craft tables handmade things people setting up businesses It will allow a rejuvenation of creative endeavors and people with money or people who are making money in the middle income And above middle-class income and above well yearn for handmade things and because it's so easy to start these businesses We're gonna it's the same thing with people who have money now all my friends You have money now have classic cars a lot of them have lots of classic cars They have handmade things had me in furniture all these things They're I think the market is gonna get flooded because people are gonna be so sick of highly stylized AI making everything look awesome I think it's much more likely than in ten years if you and your wife and myself and my wife are gonna go out We're gonna go to a regional theater house watch Hamlet or some play or something like that Yes, that will start with people with more money But as more theater houses pop up and more creative endeavors I think people are gonna be able to get creatively back into things and AI in my estimation will exist as like a utility in your house They're trying to not do that in ways that we've talked about but a good output for AI is it becomes a water heater in your house You have your own personal GPU that you do your own training or your own things on or it does your bills for you? It takes care of the dildrums of life and it can do all of these things for you It's ran locally.
It's not something that you go to open AI for or you go to Large company name your large AI company a good output for AI would would be we have these open-weighted systems that are available to everyone You buy your GPUs it goes in your basement your data never leaves your home You're not out training some other companies AI it all gets done regionally and it handles your bills for you It does your bank account does all of these very rose colored glasses it is it is But I see where there the human thing like human created stuff is gonna be more valuable Yeah, that's the best possible best case area people will be able to afford things if you're not making a lot of money And you don't have a lot of economic output you're gonna be able to live very well I think see if we don't kill by the robots if we don't kill by the robots I mean I just I don't see a path to sentience with AI in its current form today. I guess it's my big That's another conversation that we're gonna have to have more time. Okay, that's a long one. I didn't think there'd be a second time So now I believe in a second time I really appreciate you having you it's always great to talk to you.
You're a fascinating guy if I can do the obligatory So Spartan forage my company. We've released to hunt plus updates tons of UI updates UX tons of features We're about to release that thermal thing that I just talked about before we've got car play We've done a lot of things We've grown a ton and there's some too many features for me to go into there But there's we just produced a film on YouTube about a engineer in our company Who's also a gunsmith called old soul We're doing a third one about my cabin that I purchased back and having my family out there and we're gonna have some veterans out there and This is my Martin forage YouTube channel. Yeah on the Spartan for YouTube channel And so we're gonna do one about my dad's cabin coming up here and we've got some great companies Hoyt sponsoring it VPA archery which I've you shot VPA before sure if you have it. Yeah, yeah best broad.
I love those broad heads They still are they make their country broad. Yes. Oh my god I've been aiming for shoulder blades with those things on those right and books because you can just double shoulder blade now It's a great broad. It's a great broad head.
So VPA Azio camo is another one about buddy Joe is runs asio camo these companies are sponsoring us to produce these films Then we do a coffee table book with it But we're trying to get into reminding people why we hunt and why we're out here doing these crazy things It's not about bloodlust or killing It's about the joy of having a backstrap with your kids at the table like you know up until we run out of deer meat Most of my kids has died is deer meat and it's about that coming of age and getting back to our roots and engaging that circuitry that we talked About before and as paradoxical as it sounds I'm hoping to help people do that through an application But yeah, we're producing a lot of stuff and it's also just reminding hunters why we hunt it's not just about the big racks and the bloodlust It's about food and tribe and beautiful shared heritage. So thank you again. You my pleasure brother. Thank you.
Good to see you You