You were listening to a mash those buttons podcast visit mashthosebuttons.com for full podcast Hey, it's Nick two things I want to mention here real quickly before we get started first this episode was recorded last week before the release of the Alaria and Torrellion audio drama, so we speculate a little bit about Without knowing that it's coming and obviously don't talk about the contents of it because we haven't listened to it when this is recorded So bear that mind. We will be addressing that in an upcoming episode possibly soon in an upcoming episode But for now when we talk about alaria and Torrellion, we are not talking about the audio drama because we have no existed at the time This was recorded also our good buddy Kavo from Patchy who's been on the show before released a new song parody Sargeras went down to Argus Parry of Charlie Daniels band double went down to Georgia. I recommend everybody check it out We'll have a link to that in the show notes. So with all that in mind enjoy the show Hello, and welcome to the tour in the Goblin the national is podcast about the Warcraft story and lore My name is Nick's on temperature and I'm Greg's art horn hunter on Skywall U.S And this is the tour in the Goblin number 27 today is September 19th 2017 We're recording a day earlier than we normally would because life and last time we were gonna record a day later than we normally would and then Everything kind of fell apart.
So better be early in this case and it's good Give me talking to you again cuz it's been a while. Yeah, it's gonna be back So how have how's your friend doing cuz uh, you were housing your one friend who was affected by her game? Yeah, my friend was actually on say Martin's so she went through a lot of different stuff And this is a friend I was talking about my friend, but it's a really big forsaken fan And so she finally got a few nice things. She's okay everything is going on for her But we've been getting out in game for a while, you know, that was huge And we're like, oh, you know, let's get to play while again And it's kind of funny cuz I've been helping her get through a lot of this Just reconnecting to the community of friends that she has in Warcraft and the it's pretty amazing I always tell people how amazing community games are like work And it's kind of cool to actually be able to point to a real life example for me and you know, she is my best friend And everyone's helping her through this.
So pretty cool. But yeah, so we've been busy hanging out and I've actually been doing the Pallying Rolle as well, which has been really fun. Many kinds of people. Just before, but not to cut you off before you go.
I do just want to remind everybody again that the Shadow is the cherry pet that is still available on the Blizzard Store Through the end of the year and the proceeds we're going to go to Red Cross to help the Hurricane victims So again, if you want to help out with that, that's still there. I just want to mention that before moving to the actual fun stuff Of the games, whatnot. So the Pallying Rolle. I'm just going to go back to Shadow for just a second because yes, please, you know, if you haven't already, Shadow is great.
I actually gave one to my friend, but yeah, Pallying Rolle. So the Pallying Rolle is a lot of fun right now. I'm playing it on my blood elf Pally, who's kind of my baby. I have a lot of babies because I'm a goblin.
I'm a candy paladin. So he's my blood elf. That's been really interesting so far. And it's been a lot of its kind of similar to the other Rolle's.
But at the same time, you know, getting to go through me all these paladins and that's kind of cool. You're like, oh, I feel really right just right now. And I feel very shiny. And I have some of the new gear on him from Argus.
I took an Argus before I finished his Rolle and I'm a veteran. But I'm like, oh, shiny. I am. And all this light stuff.
And woo, look at me. So I've been having a good time dropping around and getting all the paladin gear on Argus and being a light bulb. Not much. I still haven't gotten very far in Argus.
I did struggle last week with the 20 world quests to get your 5,000 order resources. And I struggled to get that done on my characters. But I did it. So hopefully this will actually make progress on Argus and have that out of the way.
I still haven't had a chance to start to lose the nightmare. I'm looking forward to that. I think you said the same thing that you weren't in the secret discord. You haven't done any of it.
I'm a little surprised by that. I know. So one of the things that my friend kind of promised me to do it together. So I was waiting for her to get back from St.
Martin's. You know, my best friend do a lot of stuff together. So I was like, oh, yeah, we'll do it together. But we haven't actually been able to have time to sit down and do it.
And so I'm really excited to do it. And I know all the pieces for it. But I'm prepared for every step of the way, but I haven't actually committed to sit down and do it yet. The endless halls.
I am so looking forward to that because I just love mazes and that kind of stuff. And I'm curious to see how they implement that in World of Warcraft. And yeah, I've done, there was a lot to go to have mazes online. I've done that.
I go into doing corn mazes. I'm doing the hedge mazes that they have at the colonial houses and stuff like that. So the fact that I get to do that in World of Warcraft. I mean, I actually do Argus this week then.
Nothing on Argus has me excited. And it's weird to say that because the Lord is all really interesting to me and that has me excited. But it's like I've got the Lord to get through. Spoilers and YouTube cinematics and all that stuff.
I'm actually playing through the game. Like that's sort of the actual drudgery of doing it. But, you know, like actually having to go and do it. It's purely mechanical at this point.
But the endless halls. That is an activity I think will be fun. I'm looking forward to doing that. I don't even care about getting it now.
I just want to do that mazes. I'm going to do it again and again and again if I can. Well, I actually heard an interesting tip which I have yet to verify. But if you finish the entire nightmare mazes and everything like that, you have access to the Chris of Carreson.
Really? Yes, that's what I heard. I haven't confirmed yet. But as someone that may love to break the rules and go into the Chris of Carreson whenever I can.
We are able to get a whirlock under there and whirlock portal summon everyone in. It was amazing. We had a great party down there. When you throw a whirlock, you have the sources down there.
Why would you do that to me, Nick? Right on the fields. Right here. Right on that space where my heart should be.
I would do that. Because I have it, so I just assume everybody has it. I might not talk to the rest of my guests. Well, that's going to be an interesting show then.
It's the next 45 minutes I'm talking to yourself. So, was there any else you wanted to talk about or do you want to get into the topic at this point? Sure. I mean, I didn't really have much more to say.
I was able to get to 350 mounds. I was able to get to 350 mounds. I was bummed at the mouth and rolled around in my chair and probably got back to 30 mounds. But that was pretty cool.
I was glad I was able to do it. I know a lot of people are like, you know, you don't break about it. I'm like, yes, so many mounds. So now we get to the Cloud Serpent, the Celestial Cloud Serpent, the beautiful Azure one.
Actually, it's missing a texture in its mouth, so it opens its mouth. It's black in part of it. And so now I'm all that hard for it. No, it's missing a texture.
It's going to bother me forever. When they first put in the new updated cord mounts. I think they put in the updated cord in the updated lines. I think they put in the updated lines.
It's missing a texture on its upper mouth. It wasn't black. You just saw it through it. So you basically were flying from the ring.
We were staring at your character's crotch. I can do an entire list of weird things. I've noted with mounds. There was a point in I think it was either late Pandaria or early January where the raptors had to layer initis.
So you do their mouth special. They can always be like, I'm sorry. So I sent a couple of tickets about it. And I fixed it eventually.
I was like, yay. No, raptors are one of my favorite mounds in the beginning of the game. So I was like, what the raptors? You have to fix them.
You found a bug on the catfish now, didn't you? Yeah. So if you mount the catfish now, I don't know when it happened. I think it's probably a 7-3 bug or maybe it's just a patch of smaller patch.
But the whiskers are actually displaced from the face of the face of the whiskers. It's actually held around here. And so when you swing, they go all crazy off to the side. It's pretty humorous actually.
I guess he doesn't have whiskers right now. They're just over there. So, yeah. There's a lot of mounds I find all the time.
Because I tried all of my mounds all the time. It's been a lot of time. It's looking at my mounds. So I was like, okay.
So out of the 350 mounds one, which one was the mount that put you over the top? You get number 350. And then two. Which is your favorite is now or what are your top two or three most favorite mounds if you can narrow it down that much?
Okay. Well, as an avid mount collector, the mount that put me over was actually this guy. I found a very inexpensive wastelands calculator that hadn't been scratched. And I debated scratching it for like, come on.
Where did you find that? I've been looking for this mount for virtually ever. And at one point, they were really cheap. And I was able to pick one up.
And that was the mount that put me over. So I found a very inexpensive wastelands calculator that hadn't been scratched. And I debated scratching it for like, come on. Where did you find that?
I was able to pick one up. And that was the mount that put me over. So they sat there like, I need one more mount. I was staring at the card.
It was actually like, do I dare scratch this card? Like, I feel like the heavens are giving me a signal to scratch this card now. And I'm like, okay, I can do it now. And so I just scratched the card.
I know a lot of people are like, why would you scratch the card? And I'm like, I don't know. That's what I do. I agree with people.
I'm scratching these cards. So I will not, if I ever get a spectral tiger card, which I don't ever intend to do, but I'm not going to scratch it. That's too far above and beyond what I'd be willing to do. I'm just really glad that mounts no longer take back space.
When I came back, because I originally played in Vanilla for a little bit, and then I left and came back middle of Burning Crusade-ish. And I remember like, playing through Vanilla and like, seeing how difficult it was to get mounts and pets and that they actually took up space in the bag. And I'm like, this is crazy. Maybe.
Actually, maybe it wasn't Burning Crusade. I actually don't remember when the middle is changed. I remember when I was playing Burning Crusade and I came back for capitalism. But I remember like, hearing some of the changes to the game that had gone on while I was away and how much more widely available made all these pets left and right.
I'm like, how do people have back space for all this? I don't understand. And I was like, oh, you just click on it and you just know it. I think that's much more convenient.
Yes. Yeah, I think it was in Raph somewhere. Because I remember I came in at the tail end of BC and I farmed that well, the Crimson well, I farmed that for like 10 levels of leveling up. I mean, BC, that was still impressive.
So I killed that many poor little Crimson wellplings just to get that pet. And then it was sat in my bag forever because I had that and then I had my night saver, which was my first mount. And I was like, oh, a mount. And that's what got me started.
The night saver. That's just a regular night off mount. Yeah, it was the level 30 night saver. Okay.
I remember I got a recruiter for end mount, but I had to level up to you. So that was my first, like, epic mount was the recruiter frenzy for mount, because I couldn't use it at level 30. Oh, it's 30. 40 back in the day.
So I think they didn't, yeah, they didn't lower the mount up until I think around. I want to say like 40 to 30. And then 60 to 40, 60. And it was 30, 60.
I think. And I was like 20. Yeah. I should know.
It's 20, 40. Yeah. It's 20, 40. Yeah.
20, 40, 70. Yes. 60. No, I think it's 60 for fun because you can find the world.
Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I just remember when I first got my, or I saw the, the original old school orc wolf mount.
I was like, oh, I want that on my torrent. But at the time I think the mounts were race, racially locked. She just only get your races mount. I was like, I'm never gonna get that wolf on my torrent.
I'm just gonna have to ride the stupid looking kodo. And then at some point they opened that up. And I was like, yes, now I just have to farm orc rep. And how the hell am I gonna do that?
Because I think at the time that's when you have to turn in the cloth. Yup. That was a little bit of boost. You're at that one point.
And that was, I never got that far. I remember I was looking all over the world trying to get every question. And finally, I think just in general, I think eventually there were enough quests in the game that you played long enough. You don't even have to do that.
It all worked out. Now, now my torrent only rides wolves. Nice. Yeah.
I totally remember when they lifted the wait restriction because there were a bunch of night elves that could find the right mechanics writers. So that just went ahead and moved over to the horror game. And so everyone's like, oh, no, I don't see the right mechanics writers. Like, this is great.
And there were a bunch of comics. I'm like, Thorian writing the, um, uh, Anatol Striders. The Swift Striders. Or whatever else.
Yeah. There's a couple of good comics about that. Yeah. I remember before the taverns that they released that you can use the dungeons.
But I don't think that's the most important thing that I had. So I did that as a movement, I ground every single alliance reputation. I had a problem. I did it all like, it was hard.
I did the winter's Simulation, but they were hard when they were hard when it was still they were always like, actually, I did that on purpose. Like I knew they were changing it. Oh, I knew the bragging rights to go and do it. And I suffered through it and I did it.
They changed that in cataclysm, right? Yeah. I was. Okay, okay, so I did it.
This is the easy with them. I mean, I shouldn't say the easy way cause it takes a long time. So yeah, I forgot about it. Like the venom high rafter, yeah, I forgot about it.
They started in. I wanted the Venom High Raptor on my main, and I wound up, it just worked out that my undead rogue was level 50 something right at the time that they made that change, and so he's ready to go, he's naturally doing the quests there, and I'm like, oh my god, I'll do these quests that I'm not the Venom High Raptor here, and then I did that for a month, and now he had the Raptor, and I'm like, oh I can't get it on my main though, and it wasn't till missed when they made the change, was they made the change so that the mounts worked out, I think that was missed, right? Yeah. And like that, I mean that was a huge quality of life change, that just changed everything.
Yeah, that was, like I know one of the most recent updates they did, which fell out, the tournament mounts account for both, so if you have like them kind of straight around one, then it counts for the tournament, but that was a bad example. I think it's the trolls. Yeah, I don't understand how they match up races, because if you think we're like the ports and humans, that makes sense. And it's torn and dwarves, that I don't get, I feel like torn, I understand like, I understand to agree, like they set up these pairings at stages, like originally only on the original four races, so they kind of have to match them at that point, so maybe torn and dwarves make sense out of the original four, but like, now you're torn, I feel like drain on them much better with torn, because they're both big and hooved, and have tails, and they're both- There's something like torn and elves would have made sense out of the game.
No, because knight elves make sense against the trolls, because they're like related. Yeah, and then you have gnomes and gnomes and goblins, gnomes and goblins, because they're no tiny engineers, they're very similar. And then, who else? And then you have the forsaken and the worgen, because they're always fighting, so they make sense out of the game.
Because they're always fighting, you know. They are. And then you have what? They're the blood elves, and who am I forgetting the alliance?
Yeah, we're getting someone for sure. No, they would go with the boards, I guess, because I didn't hear the dwarves about anybody. Yeah, okay. I think so.
I don't think I'm darn, darn darn darn darn darn darn darn darn darn darn darn darn Well, yeah, yeah, I think we'll do so that's a matter. Yeah, so. Also, okay. I probably shouldn't even bring this up yet, but.
Okay. I shouldn't say this because we should bring it up for a police con one, but of the new races you expect to show up, because if you look at like how every expansion releases, I believe they're releasing a class or a new race, so I'm wondering what the new races are going to be. At least if they don't release a new race, let's be the first time they did. Well, here's the thing.
I don't want them to release a new race, because it won't be our color. Yes. And no. I don't know.
I think given the potentially voidy nature of the next expansion, I think if the reels are a popular race to anticipate. I could see. I've only been wanting to have Ogres for the Horde for a long time, so I can see that being on the Horde, but I'm trying to think of what they would have on the Alliance. Yeah.
Well, see, that can be something like Ethereum's Ogres or something like that. I'm not too excited about Ogres on the Horde. Like I'm sure it'll be cool. I guess it's almost like in a way they're kind of goblins where it's like they should have been part of it all along.
Yeah. Well, I think they are technically the Tonka are, I mean, how many times have we gone around and how many times have we gone around and actually ministered the Horde oath to people? I don't know. Like, how many, like if we count stuff from, you know, races from other planets, like they're like, sign here, buddy.
Okay. But that red uniform, like, please take it off and watch it. I'm not like that one guy from the J for us. I never watched his board uniform.
I'm trying to remember what his name is. I'm trying to remember what his name is. He gets turned to Jade. But like, one thing's going to be click on him.
Oh, no, it's um. I'm trying to remember his name. He was talking to Nazgrim. I was like, yeah, I really appreciate this guy's enthusiasm for the Horde, but he's never taken off the red shirt.
And it really stinks. It's all I think I was like, here, please. I'm like, hey, yeah. Sign the contract.
And you can join. Oh, I'd please watch his stuff. Yeah. So anyway, what were we?
Yeah. So our topic for tonight, which was supposed to be our topic like two or three episodes ago and then I got pushed around and then we're going to talk about it last time and we didn't record last time. And so our topic for tonight is the Maggie scenario. Yeah.
What's it called? It's got something like a fearful world or something. I think it's like the spurs of a fearful world or something like that. Something like that.
You're the one that played it tonight. I didn't have the chance. I know. I just did it.
So I was like, oh, I just did it again. But that was a really cool scenario. And I feel like it's tough because like, you know, when you're from now, we'll look back for it right now. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Free again. Yeah. Right. From what I understand is that they are separate.
They didn't, like, it's the scenario. They didn't really go over a whole lot of what exactly the neighbors are to Azeroth. They just were like, oh, she's having a nightmare and something. Like, you know, only shadowy forms start appearing in this chamber that you're in and they're, you There, you know, I first they're old gods.
I'm like, oh god, hi. Oh, this is going to totally, but then you also start seeing like demons and other things pop up. And you're like, oh, that's interesting. So it's not just old gods.
So it's not like old gods are attacking her per se, which doesn't mean they're not, but it's just interesting that they chose to show both gods and demons, probably because she's being attacked by both right now. Well, that's good. But if that's, I mean, that seems a little bit on the nose to be like, oh, what kind of nightmares is the planet having? It's having nightmares about stuff that's legitimately threatening it right now.
Like, I would think like, you know, like, why not have some like existential nightmares? Well, it kind of does, though, because at the end, so what, like, it's cool because you can do this heartbeat as you go into the chamber and it starts to pulse faster and faster as you're trying to get rid of all these nightmares. And there's these keepers that are, you know, like the security wardens right then they're just on their knees and they're, you know, they've been deactivated by nightmare to go around and reactivate a couple of them. And once they're reactivated, Azeroth calms down and she's kind of able to start to communicate and then this giant shadowy form comes out and it looks like a demon, but it starts speaking in different voices.
So it has like a demon voice, has an old god voice and then what really struck me as a kind of garage voice and it said different things and you're just like, well, wait, like, you were saying all these different, like, you will be destroyed, but there's so many different voices and some of them are from the past and some of them are from the future. And that kind of really struck me because I was like, why am I here garage? Like, oh, like, you know, he was in the old gods and we're hearing like demon voices, like, clearly demonic voices. And so part of me is like, are these, like, there's like scars that Azeroth has where she's trying to, you know, deal with all the things that have happened to her on her, you know, that we've kind of been through together and what does this mean going forward?
And then at the end, all the agony has to say is, it's like, oh, I've got that sorted out. Like, Azeroth kind of channels through him. It's like rivers of fire and blood and this guy's are on fire and you're just like, oh, this sounds really bad. But then at the end, all the matter, our fate is an argus.
No, we got to go with the autogus. We got to go with the autogus. We got to go with the point of what's happening. And you're like, oh, okay.
Like, that was a lot to take in. But I feel like there was so much more there that was kind of just like hidden under the surface than, oh, time to go to argus. Like, as I said, I feel like you're going to look back. It's like, I was like, like, for at the honest right, but we need to leave it was coming.
Then you know what I'm saying is it your destiny is not our guess. That's how we're going to save Azeroth. And I'm like, how does Azeroth know that? And then, you know, we go to Argus and talk to Maggie there and I guess what is this also?
Well, isn't that part of the thing that ties into the key of diamonds is a pawn. Oh yeah. If you buy into that, and that was one of the... whispering out is that that Alta says that when you're holding off around it, forget.
I know it's the Knights that says it, right? The Knights whispers when you're firingilde off and the Knights being a shadow priest artifact. And which is made from part of the old God once upon a time. And so that is what the King of diamonds is a pawn.
he's a pawn, so presumably he's actually a pawn of the old gods, not... Or he's a pawn of somebody who's with the old gods, but no, I mean, he could be a pawn of the light from the old gods perspective. But it doesn't seem that way, that it would seem... The implication is that we shouldn't trust Knight, and the man who doesn't know that he's been turned, basically.
Yes, and I think I'll make for a compelling story in a lot of ways, but, like, I guess that's part of the speculation, like, who is he a pawn? Oh, like, I doubt it's our garys, but, you know... Well, it's not just speculation of who is he a pawn, but speculation of what you can even trust the knife, because the question there is, you know, I personally like it when you have villains who are straight up honest and tell you things and, like, you know, like, give you clues and prophecies and all that kind of stuff that wind up being true, like, there's no fun in a villain that comes down lies, like, any villain can lie, that's what villains do. You know, like, to me it's always the villains who tell the truth that are the most disastrous, because they're always the ones that are, you know, because they don't just fight you, they're villains that, like, break up relationships, and then, kind of, like, in the Civil War.
Uh, Captain Captain America would be, like, Baron Zemo was an effective villain, not because, you know, he didn't really fight the Avengers, but he got, you know, he was able to drive that wedge between Captain America and Tony Stark, and he just had to split them just a little bit, and then they fell on it, and that's, that's the kind of villain that's the way I see the old gods working, like, they see what little cracks are in our society, what cracks are in our relationships, you know, it's very easy for them, I mean, the alliance and the horde, their relationship is always tenuous, you know, it's best that it's easy for them to come in and do some stuff to affect that. And, you know, so if you've got a villain, like, I want to believe that the knife is being honest and manipulative, you know, maybe I'm getting some facts, but when the knife says, like, Maggie's a pawn, we're supposed to believe that Maggie's a pawn is the old gods, like, I kind of want to believe, I kind of want to believe that I can trust the knife. Yeah, and I mean, like, this is kind of more compelling, like, it's fun that, first of all, that they split up a lot of these potential hits, so they're already messing with our minds, which is great, like, you know, they're starting, like, they're throwing dark hits to warlocks and priests and, you know, but the light, everything is like, good, and you even see the classals kind of fracturing a little bit with the death knights trying to fight the paladins, you know, you're like, what are you doing? You know, so I kind of love what they're doing, because on the surface, we're all working together, but we start to see all these little fractures forming of, you know, people starting to manipulate it and planting seeds of doubt, and it just screams old God, and I absolutely love it.
And I love a villain, I love all the villains and all the gods are some of the best, because they make your skin crawl, they mess with you, how you think about things. And they're like, you know, what can we do to get the community going and kind of start little mini wars between different factions and different order halls, and so I'm very much hoping that the knife is in some ways is right. Like, if you said, you know, I'm obviously like, no, Maggie, how tragic, but I was like, yes, evil, like, it's more fun and more stories. It'd also be a bit, like, I understand, like, yeah, the old guys are supposed to fall into dissent by lying, like, they get that part of it.
But at the same time, like, for Blizzard to have these, you know, have these comments made, and for them to be false. For them to be patently false, they were supposed to look at them and take them as false upon their face, and then move on, and never question again, what do they mean, why was it put there? Like, I mean, you know, we were talking a little bit about the Lucid Nightmare before. That is one of those things where, like, you give the community a bone and they will chew on it.
They will chew on it until the marrows are dry, and then they'll just eat whatever's left of the bone. And, you know, like, in the Lucid Nightmare, that feeds into that, but that's at least very game specific. That's something, like, the knife making these comments, that's a lot more, I mean, that's our domain, that's our purview. That's the whole point of the show is talking about the story lore, like, it's exactly right around the alley.
And so, we're going to go, and we're going to set the marrow to that. And then for Blizzard to come back later and say, oh, yeah, there was no marrow there. Like, you know, like, in a way, they would just be saying, oh, you guys just wasted your time. Yeah, and I think they've actually gotten really good about it.
At least recently, and this is just kind of how I feel like, they did an okay job in previous expansions, but I feel like in each of them, they really kind of started to, I don't know, involve the community more, right? So, like, we've started putting these hints in there that started driving a lot of discussion. Like, before it was a little bit, you know, but like, especially with the addition of the two mounts, the Lucid Nightmare and the Minecraft, you know, it's like, oh, they're paying attention to us. They're starting to put in things that are making us think about stuff.
And so now that they've started to add comments like that with the knife and like the skull, you know, it, to me, it started to slide more credence. Like, I should listen more, it's not just like, oh, this isn't even like what I'm talking to dumpster. Like, this was made out of an old god. Is it telling me something?
Like, should I not listen to this? But it's also an old god, so it's probably going to trick me and tell me half truths, but I don't know. I've been very impressed with the storytelling, so I'm totally getting sucked into all these things and like trying to figure out what I believe is going to happen and not happen. So, I don't know.
I think those have been doing a great job with that and I absolutely love it. And I'm hoping, you know, with the old gods, the next expansion storytelling is going to be even better. And they're going to have more like, just broken, weird stuff. So, I don't know.
And more crazy mounts for us to find. Well, I think we're in a good position, though, because even if, I mean, everybody's all hyped up for the old gods, but if you remember coming out of mists, everybody was all like, yeah, it's going to be a legion because Raphion was all the legions coming, and then we're like, we got something completely different. So, there's still, and I mean, I know like, you know, there's a lot of reasons to believe certain points of speculation and whatnot, but even if, you know, there's still a chance that the next expansion could have nothing to do with the old gods. Like, I think it'd be perfectly fine if they focus the next expansion on whatever, and you know, even if it is something like Goldgrass or something like that, that doesn't necessarily mean it's old god related.
That's right. And they let that all sit on the back burner because you know that at the very least they're going to still be peppering those little hints about the old gods all throughout it. Because even Warlords, as much as it led directly to the legion invasion that Raphion was promising. So, you know, exactly, even though it didn't seem like we were going to be getting that legion immediately, Raph showed up, Raph was front and center in that cinematic that we got to set off Warlords.
And so, even if the old gods aren't quite the next focus of the next expansion, even if we're going to go on some kind of detour, be like Pangaria 2.0 or something like that, where we're off doing something else. The old gods are still going to be in the background. We're still going to get stuff, not necessarily the knife talking about stuff like that. We're going to find evidence of the old gods.
We're going to cure whispers. We're going to see things we shouldn't be seeing. And that will lead up to possibly the next expansion, possibly the expansion after that. We know that they have it set up for us at some point and they will let it percolate as long as they need to let it percolate.
So, whatever they do, the next expansion isn't explicitly old gods. It's still going to be fun to see how they affect us there. Well, I agree. One of the things that I actually don't really have a problem with it, but we're knocking out both the legion and then potentially the old gods, which, you know, those are two major villains.
I'm not sure if we'll actually ever defeat the burning legion. We'll see how this expansion ends, but there's no more when the raid actually opens. But they could still do a lot. There's still many avenues for them to take here, which is fascinating.
I'm like, oh, who knows? But I'd still like to find out a whole bunch more about the army of the light. So, I would actually be okay if they didn't continue right away with old gods. I'm super psyched with old gods, but I don't think I'm not.
But as someone who has been dying to find out what happened to Olyria and Trilion, you know, at least as far as I know we still haven't gotten the Sylvanas dialogue yet. Sylvanas again are still not tied up, and there's so much left of legion that still has unfinished, and I'm not sure it'll be tied up in the next expansion. It might be, but it feels like we haven't gotten the cover yet. So, which we usually don't, but I don't know.
Let me ask you now. Did you cover Olyria and 7.3? I'm decently far. I got to Mikari and I've unlocked a couple of zones with that.
I haven't done the new stuff from last week. Okay, well, you're further than I am. But as far as you've gotten, the fact that you're now hanging out with Olyria and Trilion and Olyria. How do you feel about that?
How do you feel about the story so far and 7.3 that you've seen? Okay, so there are a couple of pieces. First of all, I love it. It's great, and I'm really excited that we're there with them again.
And like, having Trilion there, because he's kind of like Kankar, 2.0. He'll never please Kankar, of course. But some of the interesting things that they haven't addressed, I mean, my friend had noticed, is Trilion and Olyria just accept you as your word. They're like, oh yeah, it's a word.
But when you hear Olyria's dialogue about Sylvanas leading the Horde, Olyria is very upset about it. Well, there's more I gotta tell you, but we should probably have this conversation in private. I'm like, no! Which I'm sure we'll get, I would imagine we'd either have to hear it or they'll book on it or something, you know?
But the other thing that bothers me a little bit that I don't quite understand is when, like, we don't really have any filler for what happened to... As far as I know, we don't have any filler for Trilion and Olyria after they left Outland. Like, how did they get picked up by the Olyria? Like, where are all the alliance forces that were with them, Outland?
Because there were supposed to be a bunch of them. And it's like, Olyria and Trilion and Trilion. You know, that worries me, because war crimes was great. War crimes was an amazing bridge between mists and warlords.
And then coming out of warlords, we didn't get a bridge from Warlords to Legion. Well, technically we did, if you count the... No, the Ellen book was not a bridge from Warlords, the Ellen book was... That was all just what Ellen did.
That was the other side of Burning Crusade. Right. Well, I guess I could have thought of that as a bridge, but... But it didn't, but that didn't, for a bridge we need to come from a place to go another.
That didn't come from anything in Warlords, that came from its own spot. And really, the bridge that we got between Warlords and Legion was the Tomb of Sargeras, Audio drama, which was amazing. And so, I'm actually gonna cut myself off here because I forgot about the Tomb of Sargeras, Audio drama. Because my concern is that, like, we're gonna get that novel that's gonna, you know, suppose to bridge us from Legion to whatever comes next.
And instead of getting an novel that actually does that, that progresses from the storyline, I mean, that was the one thing about Warlords, it was so great. It was a nice day in the month for a lot of the characters from mists. Like, I really feel like this pandaria started with the Jaina novel with Tides of War, and it ended with War crimes. And, you know, obviously, the expansion was in the middle of that, but like, that is, like, if you want to be full, this pandaria experience, you start by reading Tides of War, you play through Pandaria, you do all the raids and everything, and then you read War crimes, so it's a wrap it all up.
And I don't feel like we've had, you know, something similar with, like, the Cataclysm have a shattering, it was a major part of setting up the Cataclysm and everything you saw in game there, that I don't, I want to see a novel that does this thing that actually takes a lot of characters that we've seen, you know, the characters that we're not gonna see again. It gives them a send-off, you know, it reminds other stories as best I can. I'm thinking mostly of the Nightfallen who probably won't see in the next expansion, but I want to get that novel that kind of carries everything through, and that's a novel where you would see, possibly Ileria and Sylvanas, or Ileria and Vereesa talking about Sylvanas, something like that. My concern is that we're gonna get another Illidan-style novel that will pick up a thread that was abandoned years ago and then use that to lead into the next expansion.
And I say this before, I think to make it to Jane about this, because her thread was abandoned in early legion. So if we get the, well this is what Jane is doing during legion, we were all fighting the Legion, I'd be okay with that, because when the guys have the other two happened. But if we get something like Tellurianna, I can't say that to Relianna and Illaryia, if we get a book about them, don't get Chet about that, because I'm very curious to see what happens, but I want them to focus more on this story directly on Azra. I don't need to hear what Tellurianna and Illaryia, this is off saying their names as best as Colander or something, Team Shee, the light one and The Voidy one.
Which is not concerning at all. But, look at that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want to hear your story, but I don't want that in place of the other story.
Like, I want all the stories. I mean, I want all the stories. I want to know what's going on in Azeroth Post Legion. I want to know what Jane was doing during Legion.
I want to know what the two that I was just talking about, William Lighty, what they've been doing for the duration of the thousand years that they've been fighting for Legion. I know that you don't need to tell the entire thing, especially if the Legion is ostensibly defeated at the end of this expansion. You know, but I mean, just as far as whatever character development, I know we're getting some of that, you know, we're getting some of that in the expansion. So, I mean, maybe that's something where, you know, it's weird to say like a short story of the one that I was talking about in the last couple of years, but if they give us some sort of presentation about what they've been doing, what happened when they first found themselves, you know, going through the portals, leaving Outland as it was getting shredded, you know, stuff like that.
That would be cool to see. Yeah, and I agree. Like, I think they even released two novels which they might not, because we know that Christine Gold, at least we hope that she's working on an awful way, but guess she probably is, to the next expansion coming out next year. What if they have her just writing old god reels?
That would be amazing. I totally told you not to do that. She's one of my favorite Warcraft authors, because she's written most of the last couple novels with the exception of the Illidan one. But yeah, I mean, I agree, because I want to know what's happening on Azeroth, and I love the bridge.
Actually, I think Warcraft is one of my top Warcraft books of all time. Like it was amazingly written, gave us a lot of depth and perspective on characters that were really relevant at the time. Like, you know, on the wind and garage, it was super cool to see them talk to each other and we got more context in the book even. Ah, that was such a good book.
So if you haven't read Warcraft, go read Warcraft is amazing. Now that we've been like, oh, Warcraft is so great, but it really is. We need to episode on Warcraft on the schedule. Yeah, we'll start doing out the books if you haven't.
I have all of them. Yes. Yeah, I think it's tough because I would like to see them do more short stories because for a long time they were releasing short stories and recently they stopped. And I wouldn't be okay with the short story about what happened to Trelion and Illyria.
I think the big thing is inquiring minds need to know what happened. Like, they went through the portal and suddenly they're here. Like, you know, there's this huge gap of time. Like, apparently they've been fighting for thousands of years.
What does that mean? Where did their forces go? How did they meet up with these drawn eyes? Like, how did they get to the ship?
What does the army of the light? Where did they come from? How did you find all these people where they just floating out there in space? Like, how did you meet up with them right now?
Like, there's something. You go and talk to Trelion for one of the first times. He says, oh, I haven't seen insert race in a long time. Which, you know, it's like, oh, I haven't seen a dwarf in a long time.
I haven't seen, I don't know what he says here human. He doesn't say anything because, you're not sure. That's a good question. I don't know what he says here human.
But, you know, he says, oh, I haven't seen a dwarf in a long time. I haven't seen it pouring in a long time. Right. I haven't seen a pandaren in a long time.
I'm forcing in, you know. Yeah, first thing that didn't even exist left out. So, I'm assuming that's just one of those little like default dialogue things that kind of got overlooked under various circumstances. Well, if they can find a way to somehow run that.
So, that makes sense. Like, you know, click close to them then. Well, that's one of those things. Like, going up, it's kind of going to be standing in the back.
You're like, okay, now that Luria and Trelion are here, I have a lot of questions for you. You know, like, it is weird because I didn't, like, even because of something weird, like, in Draenor. Right. There was only one person that ever acknowledged he'd never seen this before.
And that was a laughing scholar as you go into Gorgon. He's like, ah, pale stranger. You look weird. Like, that's all it took.
Like, it's Luria. I got me doing it. Luria. What are you doing?
Then you go back to Luria and then you drop. Come on, guys. That's it. Everyone just might drop.
We're just counting. We're just counting. That's our official stance toward the goblin. But yeah, I think it's really good overall.
I've been really impressed with our guess. I just, some of the little story pieces I've been waiting for for so long felt a little rushed. And I think that's disappointing because I wanted, I wanted so much more and I'm hoping there will still be so much more. But at this point, I'm not feeling as hopeful as it was.
Like, I don't know. I'm super excited to see Luria and Trelion again. Like, I totally, I love them. I love the dynamic that's going on.
There's a lot of questions we have for them. Especially on that's, I mean, that's what, three or four. We don't count down at this point. That's true.
The one that he face exploded. But, you know, it's like, there's a lot that's happened and I feel like we haven't done the best job, like, actually finding it. Like, most of it is just like, okay, like, it's good to see you. Go do these things and you come back.
You're like, great, go unlock this zone. And you're like, okay, great. Now that you're back and go over here. And you're like, but, like, can we not talk about what's happening here first?
Like, I need to know. Well, but the thing is though, we've waited 12 plus years. Wait a minute. Yeah, because it was the end of Warcraft two that they went away.
So, 20 some odd years, we've waited for them to come back. And they're not going to just come back and immediately just be like, answer dump. That's what I want. That's the thing.
It's like, they're going to, I mean, presumably, you don't bring these characters back to have them show up, like, give them up and move on to the next thing. If you're bringing them back, they're going to stick around for a while. They're going to be players and we have time to get to that. Like, you were talking about, like, Larry and Sylvanas.
And I know everybody wants to see that now. But they're not going anywhere. I don't, like, maybe it'll happen in the book over, you know, between the expansions. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen until next expansion.
It may not happen for a while, just because of the logistics. On the one hand, I suppose, like, if, when Sylvanas find out that Larry is back, she's going to want to go see her. But on the other hand, like, I mean, one of them is what Sylvanas is up to. I mean, she might be busy doing court stuff or fighting for Valki or something on those lines that, I mean, as far as when it happens, we don't know when that's going to be.
And I think, I mean, they have time, they have time to play with it. And then they also get the other problem where they're, the other problem is that, like, the in-game story, it comes so sporadically that you get the starting expansion. You get this massive amount of story. Every zone is a story.
You get new characters left and right. You're seeing old characters. You get a huge story dump. And then after that, you get, like, a little bit of story.
If you're lucky, you get something like Suramar, where every week you get a little bit drilled out of the course of 11 weeks. But at that point now, it's just one story that you're focused on, you get little tiny bits. And everything else is kind of not ignored, but it's just not focused on. And then maybe if you're looking a little bit more, you know, the next patch, they'll kind of direct the story where they need to direct it to.
And that's sort of the problem that they have, is that they've got all this story that they've got to tell. They have a huge backlog of story. It's like a dam. Holding back this big wave of story.
And at best, we're getting little leaks in the dam. You know, we're full on our copies. Best we can with the water that's coming out of this dam. And maybe when there's expansion, it's a little bit of crack.
You get a little more of a flow. You take a shower in the water. Something like that. But, you know, that's why they need to play more stories.
They need more short stories. They need more novels. They need more comics. They need all this.
Not just to set up. You know, it's great when they get the comics. They set up, like, to hang out in the nightfall and that kind of stuff. But they need comics just to tie up the loose ends.
They need, hopefully, we'll get some extra patch content between now and whatever the next expansion is that they can use that to just put some story in so we can run around. I think that's the one. There's plenty of lessons they should take from what words of Draenor. There's one lesson that I, well, if there's one lesson that I'm going to take along with several lessons, I don't know what I'm going to do.
But if there's one, like, look at Vol'jin. We completely missed Vol'jin as Warchief. His time as Warchief was wasted from our perspective because we don't know what he did. He could have been a great Warchief.
He could have been in policy. He's left and right. Like, he proved the word dramatically. We always saw him as Warchief as he reached out to Jaina in war crimes.
And then he shows up in your darison and, like, cats you on the back and says, go build a navy. And other than that, he's dead. It's too late for them to go back. I mean, if they have plans for Vol'jin and this story's not over, that's great.
But at this point, there's no point in going back. I mean, like, well, let's fill in the body of Vol'jin's Warchief, them look like. I don't know, it's too late for that. But I want them.
I would hope we get more about how Sylvanas is Warchief. I would hope we get more about Anduin's ascendancy and the inter-politics between him and Genn. And Vellin and all the other, you know, everything that's going on in Stormwind. I would hope we get more about those stories.
And if they can't fit that into the game, I don't think they can. Then they need to fit that into, you know, they need to get that out in other media. And I hope that they've at least learned enough in that lesson that they'll do that going forward. And I think they will because the response to the videos, to the comics, to the short stories, to the novels has been immense.
And now that it was directly related to Chris Metzen, but now that Metzen has left, I'm starting to see a lot more of that. And I'm not sure if that's just because people have moved on from Blizzard, or I'm not sure. But whatever it is, like, there's a different mark. Like, Penn Area had a lot of short stories come out.
That was great. And then Draenor really did. Like, it had a couple. We saw the videos, which, oh my gosh, the videos.
And, you know, they'll be like, like, I did one and I'll tag ours. And we had the audio dramas. I'd actually like to see them start doing a couple of those in the expansion as well. So, like, if there are pieces that they can't fully, you know, just like little backstories.
They're like, what's going on doing is sitting around and making magical levels. Like, what does he do when you're out saving the world? Is he looking out at the important films? Has he gone back to Charizon?
Like, not that those are super important, but the ways to expand the world, while still giving us, like, lore content would be phenomenal. And I am very much looking forward to the expansion. And I think some of the reason they haven't released a lot of content is because they're waiting for that. And I think, I mean, we don't know what the next expansion is coming out as of yet, so maybe they're holding back some of the story right now until after it was gone.
And then they can start developing more of it. So that's the point as well. But I'm glad you said about Charizon. You all got to say it.
You know, we have a fellow for the episode now. Oh, we're really on. But I'm glad that you kind of mentioned that they're probably not going to wait. I hope not because, you know, that would be just plain straight up cruel.
You're like, you're there again. And we'll kill off. That would be, that would be some epic trolling to be like, wait, you know, 20 plus years and then bring them back and just kill them. I mean, there are a lot of characters that don't have tied up endings.
Like, I think the biggest one that comes to mind is Thral, because they're all they just tied up in the corner. Like, oh, he's kind of done now. You're not wrong, but there is more to Thral's story. But at the same time, Thral has been such a consistent presence throughout World of Warcraft.
He hasn't really lately, though. Like, he was in the first part of Draenor and then he just kind of... What was the last expansion where he didn't show up? I mean, he's showing up at every expansion, but I guess my point is that...
How many other characters? It's like, what was the last expansion? What was the last expansion where Chagard didn't show up? Actually, I don't think he was in Pandaria or...
I mean, like, okay. He's been in the last two. But he's been a major character that they had. He was the first person on the top of my head.
But I mean, like, my point is that Thral has been such a presence. Like, if they leave him in an unresolved state, he's how many other characters have been left in an unresolved state. Just kind of hanging out there, you know, not sort of not sure what they're doing. They're just out there.
And I think Thral's the point where they can leave him out there. Let's focus on some more people. We can come back to him at some point. I guess my thing is...
That's the promise. Like, if they choose one to come back to people, it's like two years. It's like, oh, this expansion is not focused on them. It's another two years.
They were pumping out expansions every six months. If they were pumping out expansions every six months, it would not have been a 20-year wait for us to find out what was going on with Thralion and Valeria. And so... And so it's like the same thing.
Like, unfortunately, like, oh, forget to put Thralion back burner for six months. That's four years. That's four years. It seems like a long time.
And it's just... The promise, like, the narrative occurs at such a different rate that the expansion takes place that this story wants to be dragging on. And we feel like nothing's happening. It's the difference.
It's like when you watch a show. Like, when you watch a serialize show and you're watching every week and you get that one hour. And if that one hour doesn't answer your questions, it doesn't address the problem. You get that one hour.
It's a slow hour. It doesn't happen. You are upset for the next week. You are just like, oh, they can talk about that.