295: Wilderness Isn't the Problem

What do decades of practice in wilderness therapy reveal about ethics, transport, and change? In this episode, Will talks with Paula Leslie—former Aspen Achievement Academy field guide, therapist, accreditation reviewer, and longtime educational consultant—for a rare and reflective conversation about the evolution of the field. First introduced to many readers through Gary Ferguson's book Shouting at the Sky, Paula looks back on her formative years, the core lessons that still endure, and the ethical blind spots that only became clear with time. From learning to "do hard things" to understanding autonomy, nervous systems, and family dynamics, she offers an insider's perspective on what wilderness therapy was—and what it has become. The conversation goes deep into the most complex and controversial issues facing wilderness therapy today, including transporting young people to treatment, trauma-informed decision-making, accreditation and safety standards, and the growing recognition of neurodiversity and family systems work. Paula speaks candidly about when wilderness therapy can be transformative—and when it can cause harm if misused. For parents, professionals, and former students alike, this episode doesn't offer easy answers—but it does offer hard-earned wisdom, grounded in decades of lived experience and a commitment to doing better. To connect with Paula Leslie please email her at [email protected] This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.