#30 CHASE-ing Kind Leadership with Joanna Povall

Send us Fan MailIn this episode, we sit down with Joanna Povall, author of the newly published book Kind Leadership, to explore what it truly means to lead with empathy, honesty, and impact. Far from being a sign of weakness, Joanna makes a compelling case that kind leadership is in fact the most human — and most effective — way to lead within any organisation.Joanna opens by sharing the core questions she found herself returning to again and again in her work with leaders: How do we communicate with compassion under pressure? How do we lead with empathy while still upholding high standards? And how do we hold people accountable without damaging their self-esteem? These questions became the foundation for her approach to kind leadership.At the heart of the conversation is the CHASE framework — a practical guide that keeps leaders honest with themselves and others. Joanna breaks it down: Communication with kindness forms the foundation, Honesty provides the structure, and Accountability is the glue that holds it all together. Self-esteem is the fourth pillar, and Joanna speaks powerfully about why nurturing it in schools is so important — arguing that when self-esteem is strengthened, cultures are created where emotional honesty feels safe and joy can flourish. She speaks candidly about the damage that shame can cause to growth and development, and urges us to eliminate it from our schools entirely.The final element of the CHASE framework is Ego. Joanna shares her own honest experiences of managing her ego in leadership, describing it as an ongoing practice — one she believes all leaders should be actively and continuously working on.Joanna also offers a helpful overview of key research in the field before turning to what she is most passionate about: the practical application of kind leadership within schools, which forms the heart of her book.This is a conversation that is honest, grounded, and deeply practical. Whether you are a school leader, a teacher, or anyone who leads people, Joanna offers real and actionable ways to bring kindness into every interaction, decision, and moment of presence.