31: University

Hi, welcome to classical stuff. My name is AJ Heverberg. I'm here with the illustrious of the world without ground balance and say hi, grab. No.

And the side grab is Thomas Magby. Thomas Magby, he's married. He's famous. He is the Dean of Student Life.

Say hi, Thomas. I'm just so sad. We're starting out. We are classical teachers with classical looks and classical looks, everybody.

It's like, so, kiss 99. I'm like, you're right. We're trying to get some candidates. What's happening right now?

So everyone perk up your ears for a day full of learning, discussion, and fun. Hey, I have a hundred people this morning. I hear it. It's a breezy one.

Or a study one. We're having a list of folks. All of his dissatisfaction with our poor intro is we're down in the pond on our rebellious head. This is my rebellion against the pun intro.

It's because the audience doesn't get them if they have it already to be episode 8. It's an inside joke. And our audience is not inside. It's for the three of us.

So we can get a little bit of it. Is that enough? Like if all good inside jokes, it increases their desire to be inside. Wow.

And so they want to listen to get it. Right in the toilet. It increases their desire in a bad way. Right?

They listen to fun. Hey, I'll be talking about we will talk about. We will talk about it. I'm talking about education broadly.

Folks, most of us are on university or higher education. So you said around you. Yeah, I'm trying to snip directly in the microphone. So I like to talk directly to the microphone.

So I'm trying to say the audience. I'm trying to snip season in the office. I think you can kind of break it up. And the trees are having spirits against humanity.

So you can have conspiracy. It's like that movie. You guys are watching the movie that happened. I do not.

I might shovel on it. Everyone starts to die. I don't know why. And it's vaguely blamed on trees getting back at us for global warming.

And eventually they just stop it. I'm not kidding. They're killing people. And they're done.

That's the movie. It's not good to me. I'm not sure how many time it's going to be. You know, they have one hit in the much of us.

OK. This is like a game. He's not advertising that it's his name. I hear those reasons.

I'm pretty good. What's the list? It's like, kid napper that has a couple of personalities. I really need to be folded into the Unbreakable Universe.

I'm pretty good with the Bruce Willis who's super strong. Samuel Jackson was like, it's glass. Anyway. Yeah, those movies were.

There's some big misses though. The village was. I liked the village. The ending, even though I'm sorry.

I like it. I thought it was effective. So anyway. One of the requirements was about surprise ending is that the surprise is reached fairly.

And it was not reached fairly because, you know, if he didn't say what Europe was at the beginning of the film. And then the big reveal was that it was modern day. I'm sorry if you had any spoilers. It is definitely a spoiler.

It's okay. But he climes over fences and sees in modern England or whatever. One of the reasons why he's not in the village of the village. But the thing is at the beginning, he has one of those video things that says like 16-18 or something.

So he tells you at a different time. He's realized that the audience is a fun memory. And then later it shows a lot of fun learning. This is neither here.

This is not. This is not. This is not a 14 year old movie. It's a different communication.

And how movies are taken over. It's not true. So if you have to go, Ram referenced. I'll give you a little bit of a reference in book.

And so I already got a book. It's a shorter. My name is William Dertwitz. It's called the Neeler Arts.

You can find it online on Harper's. So if I go college sold to markets, you can probably tell what direction is going in. So this article will be kind of a launching place in the world. So the first thing we'll just take conversation where it goes.

Is that why I'm not wearing anything? So the game is our goal. He has these two definitions statements from the same institution. Same institution.

Two statements are going about 90 years. And there will be these two statements. He does not say so. It says it's a jiggle.

It says it's a little bit more college than it's not named after that. And then he has some fun parts later on where he talks about interviews with the little words like presents and they're very funny. Anyway, here are the two sentences. I would just like your hot take on what's different about them.

So the first one is nothing is more classical than hot takes. The paramount obligation of college is to develop in its students the ability to think clearly and independently. And the ability to live confidently, creatively and hopefully. And as the older one, the older one.

The paramount obligation of college is to develop in its students the ability to think clearly and independently. And the ability to live confidently, creatively and hopefully the second one. Leadership, service, integrity, creativity. What do you say that?

The second one doesn't have a thesis. The second one doesn't have a stand that's taking. It's just, I'll be taking it. The second one is assuming that you are knowing what they're talking about.

And the first one has a statement as to a statement around what they think the school should be. The second one is more an assumption. You're assuming, or it's making nothing you can fill in with whatever you want. The second one is a sentence I would force my students to rewrite.

Because you could turn, you could turn, you could declare it. It's a declaration. It's a noun. And I could do the same thing.

And as an audience, you can fill in with whatever. I could say pants, cootters, eyeglasses, integrity. And you would have no idea. I could be a department store talking about things in my department.

I could be naming things that I like. I could be doing whatever. Or I could go the other way and be like, okay, heroin, marijuana, South America. And what exactly am I saying?

Am I saying that these things are problem there that they come from there that these are fun things? We have no idea. And it is just non-specific. And the burden of the right specificity.

Yeah. You're making all the same points. The first one is like natural sentence. A single human saying that sentence.

No. In fact, it is attributed to the founder of that university. That's a great question. It comes from this, it's a bureaucracy.

It's a group of people who get the other and say, you know, what is that? What is that? We value a institution and come up with these four words. And they're plastic roll over campus.

But nothing is actually, you know, it's not about, no one comes from it just only for one day. So, if it's not like this. So, the title is arguably the neoliberal arts. So he's contracting liberal arts with neoliberal arts.

So this is not the show. I never grabbed a number of them because I'm so sorry. What are liberal arts when we say that we can know how to do it? What's not a good show?

But there's no, no, no. I don't do it, but it's something. Let me- Do it, do it. Let me do it, let me do it, let me do it.

You can do it, like you did it. Your grammar logic, rhetoric, arithmetic, geometry, astronomy. Music, it's an input. I think it's an input, okay?

You're good. So sometimes in a little art there's a certain, the way they call the rewards. That's what it was just saying. Practice Course, you said four feet on, the grade of print, so what are these little arts in contrast to if you're not a little art, you're correct.

Right. Prior to the next way, I think it's my boy. The servile art, the more fun way to do that. It's the, the other three things you do to get it.

Let me survive as such a negative context, but it is the thing that is going to take something down for the sake of something else. It's certainly used to accomplish a different thing. You do the servile arts in order that you may practice liberal arts, is that more accurate? That's what we're not going to say.

We work that we might have in the future. So in the real world, you can be an example of a servile art and kind of craft and country art. It's not going to be an example of a servile art. But it's not going to be an example of a sort of making.

But what you can also say in the hearing or growing bananas, people who like to have a lot of work. It's a lot of art. I mean, it's a skill that you're learning for the focus of law and that's a real thing. I think it was a thing.

But this is my end. I thought it was going to come in this topic in a real clear argument that I always do liberal arts, but I'm not sure that way. I went into this. So we'll get there.

Track with me. So we're going to talk about neoliberal arts. He's kind of talking back to the servile art concept. He says that neoliberalism tells you this is going to be the worst person as a wealth person.

The neoliberalism tells you that you are valuable exclusively in terms of your activity in the marketplace. And the worst words were you're getting and spending. Like, reason in the environment. So I think this most really comes out when we think the whole reaction is when someone's going to say I'm going to go off to one.

But can you rephrase that last sentence in normal people English? The value of the thing is the money you get from it. The worst word of being a North African is not that much money is being transferred. I know that they're going to be all the values to money values.

But if you find people that neoliberalism. So your worth and society is tied to the value of the market value that you can derive from your ultimate goal. And so we all are, if we all work at the school of our thoughts, would you say that the things that we're teaching them are to secure for them place in the marketplace? It's definitely the tension between the old style of liberal art, freeing the soul to be able to be a human being, and setting them up for some kind of way to survive in a sort of modern marketplace that we have.

And that's a tension. And I would say that because I keep writing in the scale, I am trying to arm my students with the ability to bring what is in their head out into the world, which is the scale of a human being that wants to live effectively and completely. And the servile arts I would consider a byproduct of the liberal arts. Having a school to participate in the market is a secondary accidental outcome of the other things I'm teaching them.

But I'm not focused on that. But it is one of the things that happens when you practice the liberal arts, at least in my class. I'm not sure I could say the same thing about, say, learning chemistry. There's probably a joy to that.

But I think that is probably more focused on functioning in the marketplace. Yes, explicitly it's a word functioning marketplace. So you do want people to leave your thoughts, have some kind of ability to work and make money and have success. But humans say they don't.

And there is a joy in finding a place and being able to make money on something that you're good at and standing around two feet. And I mean, that is a tremendously satisfying thing in life, I think. It's the ultimate thing. But I think what the problem comes in is that being successful in the world comes as a byproduct from doing education well.

Living really. Yeah, so when you sort of focus on the material things that a human being can have, you focus on those things. You say, well, it's a lot of matter. The freedom doesn't matter.

Their ability to do English stuff or history stuff doesn't matter as long as we can get the proper outputs. But it's like saying the soil doesn't matter. The water doesn't matter. All that matters is that we can make apples.

Well, you can't get apples from a tree if you don't have the tree's nature is that it needs good soil, it needs water, it needs all of these things working together. And then it will produce fruit as a byproduct. You can't just say we're going to ignore all the processes and just really focus on the fruit. In fact, if we could just have the fruit without the tree, we'd do it.

But I don't have an analogy for the modern education. But I don't think we should. The survival comes with a negative conversation. That doesn't mean that in our pursuit of the liberal arts, we discount entirely the survival.

We want someone that can function fully as human being in part of that function is a little bit of a good job. So we're just going to talk about these three purposes of higher education. This is a proposal for it. And we can talk about history of universities.

We want to do four of these purposes. But the three purposes of university are commercial. For parents of career, cognitive, which is learning self or better learning how to think in the moral. Yeah.

And moral purpose of training in virtue. Those are the three things that he poses as a purpose of university. Wait, do you think so? What would the moral?

The moral? The moral? The moral is just learning facts. Learning things?

Yeah. What is that for better? What do you think? So both those are the four of the five of the five of the five.

Do those three sound like good purposes? First of all, I would think the moral by the time you're in, like if we say, ah, the moral education that will come at college or that will come at university. In our modern world, that means we're saying that's going to come at your 18. That doesn't seem to drive well.

You think that moral education and training, that colleges can to finalizing or finishing school as opposed to when life starts. Which is how a lot of people sort of think about college. Your life actually begins in your 18. Everything else you didn't until then is is pushing paper until you just so you could get into college.

Yes. But I think this list is saying college is the only type of these things. It's just things that have been done. Yeah.

It's a continuation of the education you should have been doing for years. Yeah. There should have been cognitive development and quality of college for a more than a little bit. Do you want to be careful about it?

That might be the question there. I mean, I think so. We give the kids some commercial sales of our extracurriculars and commercial focus to bring these to network on cars. We need some high-fought pottery class and we need to bring them back to the body.

We're not assuming those things. You're playing a class of something at home. A generation pottery. I've read from Sequinas.

Oh man, we've got to make that spreadsheet that we can send out to people who have a big open card. If you're looking for pun intro, oh, you didn't get that's where this time is going. You know, he blakes. I mean, who was that guy?

I was going to try to do that. So what does Dershow? I mean, Dershow, it sounds like he's kind of grumpy at the state of modern education. That's a nice way for him.

Or he's despairing that, he's despairing that Yale has turned into just a rubber stamp for a life of power. And that most students are our making cogs. Well, they're doing the classes to get the rubber stamp, but they're all hustling on the sidelines to get the internships and to get in at the right banks and to get in with the repulsions. But I know that's what he is concerned about.

He feels like there's some sort of purity of the intellectual life that has been lost. He talks about a speaker who wonders why he finds the other dressing half in few lecture halls. And I can tell him why, because his students don't much care about the things he's trying to teach them. That's what he's talking about.

So yeah, so people are, Dershow's argument is that many people are going college with purpose of getting that job and that career on the other side, and not for the learning itself. But I guess the reason I brought this education generally is I'm not sure that you meet to the university. I don't think. I don't know.

I'm curious what your experience in classroom with this. So I remember bringing my classes. And I'm going to take hearing people to say because I want to ask myself the last questions. But why does this matter?

Right. That's one of the questions I'm wondering something only for the sake of learning it. It's not actually useful. Why do you realize about why?

What is the question you all hearing to? Oh, all the time. Part of this is a mystery thing. When you are five, you don't know why you're doing these things.

You just have to go because you're parents to send you. And that's why I spend the first day and I'm great talking about the value of education. That's sometimes it's six. And when I realize the value, many times it doesn't.

And I hate to say this. But I think part of the reason we don't value education like we used to is this. You bet it is. Everybody has it.

You get everyone to pocketful diamonds and diamonds don't mean anything. And because everybody goes to college, everybody goes to high school, everybody has this. It's not something that you value. And you don't have the perspective when you're young to realize the things that you're getting are valuable.

And so the privatization of education might bring back that. And I'm not advocating that education should only be available to a wealthy. I'm just too desire it. To those who desire it, I'm just pointing out that when it is everywhere and what you are selected to do when you are young, you don't realize that it is a privilege.

You receiving intelligent things from intelligent people and learning how to conduct yourself and tell it to me are things that are incredibly valuable. And when you see that everyone has them and that you're forced to receive them, it just reduces the value in your head. And maybe you don't have the perspective when you're young to realize what you're getting. And then only when you're 40 and realize, oh man, I'm lacking writing skills.

I don't have speaking skills. I have no idea what history is all about. I'm disconnected from the world and our origins. And I don't know anything from only then to realize the value, but it's too late to go back.

I mean, sorry, the theory is not very secret. But one of the realities of education is that it is offered. So we offer a class of education at Veritas. Not everybody receives it.

And because it is a willpower on the student. And that's hard sort of reality. But it is, yeah, these things are offered freely. But I was thinking about this when I went through school up until college.

Learning and the love of it and design it to read and wanting to understand hit me midway through first year of undergraduate university in University of Toronto. I think back to high school. And I realized you were offering education. It was a Canadian public school education, which we can have conversations with or not how robust it was.

But there were teachers who were great. And these things are offered. But the 16 year old Donaldson Hart, I don't think received it. In the future of which it was given.

I don't think I realized the value of what I was getting until after college. I just sort of got through. I thought I was something I had to do. I had to do it to get a job.

I got excited about certain things. And I always love learning. But I never realized the value of education was offered me until far later. And I think part of that is that I didn't pay any price for it.

I had only only after college. And I have to pay my student loans and realize the true cost of what I was getting. And our freshman, they don't have any student in the game. They're parents who pay for their education here.

But they are not required to pay for it. I think if the parents of our school, if you're listening parents, this might be an idea. If you made your kid earn some of the money that went towards their education, they'd have some stake in the game. They would demand more from their teachers which is kind of scary for me.

But they would also demand more from themselves and realize that this is an expensive education. They are really getting some more. The game is a great sort of thought. Just in terms of education is a great thing.

I don't think school is really think about it. I don't think we keep on getting for free education. But what that means is that it's valueless to the student. Yeah.

That having something to be at stake. I think school wants to have things at stake. A lot of the despair that comes in those years is you feel like you have on one hand. You have the adult mind or you're growing into an adult mind, but you don't have any of the adult responsibilities and consequences.

You don't get the fruit of your labors. You don't get the agony of defeats. Things are kind of... What I do doesn't matter.

Or the ultimate sort of teenage thing. Would anybody know if that was gone. That's the sole despair. So having some kind of skin in the game is I think a really interesting thing.

I think what Dershow is talking about is he is seeing that, if you want to call like a rest development. If you want to call that rest development of someone becoming an adult, moving into the college years, which I think is definitely a modern phenomenon that we have. That is the kids are not valuing the education that they're getting. But I do realize that makes it sound like cranky old people are fortunate.

We're just going to change the age. We're like, they don't know what they're getting. Everything I give is gold and they don't care. And all the kids are saying, yeah, but you're giving this boring doesn't matter to modern society.

Like, for tonight. But this is what I'm going to talk about. You had these dreams of learning to love education. And so maybe that would kick off evaluating.

The spirit is all having to be enacted. Yes. Okay. Let's follow that.

Can we teach that? Can we awaken that? Can we bring that out in the students? What I do is I show them the old, I mean, I can only speak to this as it relates to English, because that's what I experience.

I show them old books and then I connect it to their daily life. As much as I can, or at least I try. I make, if I can, I make the books I'm exciting. If I have time to talk about it in that way and we don't have to do other things.

And then I try to say this relates to you in this way. And here's an example of it affecting the modern world. Here's how it is affected stories in past and here's how it affected art. And I try to show the repercussions of said book and how it reaches their daily life.

If I can't show their things to learn, I challenge them on decisions they've made. And one of the important things I try to do is show them the value of being able to defend themselves with language. And this requires me to be quick and clever and thoughtful if I can. It requires me to be careful with the way I write emails and it requires me to show.

And I identify the vague ways in which they speak and get themselves into trouble, which means call them and stuff. When they say something vague, I give them a vague answer. I was going to say just that. It gets a little bit easier as they get older when they have more sort of life experience.

So the next part is about time of romanticism. But when we talk about romanticism, the kids who have had some kind of transcendental experience of beauty. When we start talking about this in a poem, and we talk about this, kids who experience that engage a lot more in the lesson. Because we're talking about something that they have experienced in their lives.

And so as you can see, we have these experiences of all the education matters when we were older and it meant something. It's sort of a scene in the game or there was a teacher or somebody who made this, gave what we were learning concurrency in our lives. But life, life, life, life, life. Now you can do that.

Can you do that for all 30 students in a modern classroom in one year? No. You do that for 16 kids like we have a fair toss in a modern classroom in one year. Probably not.

But is each and every single one of those students at some point going to have realization, oh, I like learning stuff. Yes. For some, unfortunately, make it the one they're 40 because they've gone through experience of hard learning, learning that hard way. For some, the bug, not that when they were in a great Henry English class or 10 great dogs, things.

Or sometimes when they were guys in your chemistry class. So there's just, like, there's a reason why it's called the humanities is because it's teaching them to be a human. And so at some point, you've chiseled through the shell that the modern world sort of places all of us. Or it's not like great sand and it means something for them.

I think a lot of despair, a lot of the things that they're talking about is, a lot of students who never really had that. And so what they're all there in all of their energies is being put into crafting lives of ambition, money, and Johnson. He's at a high functioning institution where people who are going there. We have no apologies at it.

I don't think he's not a business or you know, but he's talking about you. So students there all have visual expectations that they can be in the halls of power in their lives. Whether that's a science or politics or those sorts of things. Like I think, you know, the air in the water in those sorts of institutions are victims of their own success.

Everyone having a college degree, only about the last and third of adults, people who are age 25 in the US have a college degree. So even when we're talking about this social problem, it's a social problem, I think. It's the first to blow up because we've been in education. Yeah.

Like all the white know college degrees and probably the similar personality traits that are just getting at. So I agree with that. You got to check our privilege at the door. Yes, ma'am.

Okay, so that's being a big deal. With that, is that the challenge? No, I don't know. Okay, so I guess if it's been a little too much, we'll call me the dev moral.

Are those good? So sorry, I come back to it. I'm going to say in her essay on the training, I'm going to talk about people getting this kind of modification up until 16. Making that choice between I'm kind of following the end of the track or I'm following the practical track.

And it's okay to make one choice or the other. Not a moral degree or one the other. That's ridiculous, like good, uses good education. Or something more, something less.

So I just get the moral education one seems harder to do when you are. I don't know. Well, I think that's all adults are talking. You learned some of your greatest principles about life ecology.

I did. The only thing that's less is about who I wanted to be and how I wanted to do is in the world. How many colleges are there? And it's because that's the point at which we are in control of that.

Our parents in the learning control, we do. They don't have eyes on this every moment of the day. We don't face their consequences when we get home based on consequences. And so at that point, you have to take ownership for how you live in the world.

And that's when you learn your lessons. I think moral education happens. Ideally, we have some sort of firm foundation that we received in high school before. But when we actually, you know, it actually matters and we're making those choices that affect the rest of our lives.

It's college. You all have a specific moment where, like, I'm going to use a phrase for what I was. I'm going to experience. You'll remember that moment where it's always all weekend.

I do. I am sorry. You have a moment that you can point to. Maybe.

I can definitely remember. And it's, I mentioned before in the podcast. It was, I was in a first year philosophy class. And it was talking about Plato.

And it was a philosophy class. You come in and you have a big lecture. And you have your small tutorial with 10 or 15 other people. And in that tutorial, as the students were talking, they were using words that I had never used before, heard before ontology and metaphysics and just to talk about Plato.

And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I went to college. He was like, he did like, how do you know what I'm talking about? And I just remember those lectures, the teacher talking about the book and the things that he was describing. We're so fascinating, so interesting, what is justice?

That I wanted to, as though the teacher himself was a little bit of a pop-up boob. And so I didn't really want to take everything that he said as true. So I wanted to go to sourcing and understand for myself. And I saw I was re-played and I did not understand it.

And I was in tutorials of people who ought to be understanding or made a great showing of they did understand. And I felt incredibly inadequate. And I never had never feeling inadequate in public school, or if I felt anything that I didn't care. But at this point, I felt bad at something that I wanted to be good at.

So I remember sitting for four straight hours in the Victoria College library with Play-Doh and the dictionary and just willing myself to understand what was being said, reading paragraphs over and over and over and over, writing out the arguments and syllogisms, doing everything I could understand the thing. And by the end of the trimester of a semester whatever, I could sit and I could replay one in a bit sense. And to me, that was the willpower taking over. The cognitive ability is always there, but you just needed to do it, but and see can actually do it.

And that sort of experience, I sort of even credit as like the ship leaving the harbor for the first time. I'm kind of thing. I'm still unclear as to what you mean by waking up as a period of soul. I think if we're talking about the point at which we wanted to actively pursue education, that's at one point.

The point at which I realized that I'm a human person in the place in this world, the questions and methods really matter that was far earlier. So I think if we're talking about my awakening to my socialism, my existential angst happened really early. When I was a young child, I used to think about, I always knew Christian, and I used to think about what he was actually like. And I would think about eternity.

I would think about writing a bicycle in a circle and having it never end. And I would sit and I would think about eternity until I just straight up freaked myself out. And I would feel the weight of this eternity weighing upon me like it is a big idea. And if we realize that as Christians, we are claiming we will never die.

You can play piano for 3,000 years and that hasn't affected any percentage of how long you'll actually be alive. It is not only minutes, you will, it is nothing. You will never stop living. That's a big idea.

And I had those existential moments when I was seven. And I would come crying into my mom and talk and talk about eternity. And so that's when I realized I was alive. I had various dandelion lines.

So you talked about what being alive is and how magical it is to just be alive. And as you sit and you strip away all your worries and all your vanities and think about what it means to be a person with blood pumping through your veins sitting at a table and sort of a waken to what's going on. And I have that experience, again, again, all the time I still have that experience. But I'm like sitting at all these worries that I have.

And then all of them fall in importance to what it means to just be a living person. And a lot of offers about that. So that experience I had young, that life is a complete miracle. Eternity is completely mind blowing.

That we are each one experience are the stakes of the game. And it is a intense game. The point at which I fell in love with education and wanted to actually pursue all the integrity was when I started working here and I had to be the Iodity. And then I realized like, whoa, these books connect to everything.

And I started seeing references all over the place. And then I finally read it into the Shakespeare. And I was like, wow, this guy's cowboy. Like he doesn't play anybody's rules.

It's a word. He wasn't some stodgy thing. He was making everything and sort of shooting from the hip and he invented half our language and all that stuff. And I started finding the value in all of these books and seeing old ideas that have shaped the way I function.

I just didn't know it. And I could reshape the way that I viewed my soul in the world. And my place within it. And all of those things happened farlier.

Probably only about that I could go. But the examples as I was saying, they're saying they're coming in these multiple moments. I remember the first time I came across a more at a very time of year book. And that was, I think I just started business with it.

And this is around the time when I tried to do a class education we talked about before. But there's something and I was like, there are things that humans should know to be human. I think you're getting out there. It's like, I just want to wonder what to do with these things.

I want everyone to care about these questions, engage in conversations, to see why people have forced us to say, and I just want everyone. I remember there was that in the first time across there's all the mechanics and seeing all these questions that we're still asking some of these years later haven't answered. And then I was very multiple ways. And so, but they're like legitimate answers over thousands of years.

It's not all of a sudden we discovered all these problems in 2018. There's a common humanity that crosses all of these questions to writing and is a time to get at these true answers. So sorry, the reason I'm asking this is that all of our answers occurred in Grandma years a little less. But they were self-study.

Like it was you came across that and wanted to learn it. It wasn't someone in hand to you and say, learn to love these things. But I didn't pick up any line on my own. So I took it out of school.

And I was saying with Elia, because you were here because I had a job. It was cool. These things were put in front of me. And I realized because they were materialized.

I adjusted the grade. Yeah. And I wasn't ashamed to learn to play. Because I didn't understand about myself.

Because I was a group of people who seem to understand it more. And I wanted to be part of it. And then when I got it, when I understood it, I sort of feel like I never really even, like, maybe my motivation was I want to be comfortable with everybody else. But then it easily transcended that.

I don't care if I'm comfortable with the table. Now I found something that's really interesting on its own. And I want to learn it before it's something. I like the reason I'm better.

My quantum with this whole article is, I think it is putting all of the agency on the university. It's only the university's fault that students care about commercial cognitive or purposes of university. But over time, moral has fallen off in the cases. Cognitive is falling off.

I have a Master's business administration. And they just dropped that in casually. I might find it. They used to require a thesis to graduate with an MBA and no longer do.

So it's literally what you can read all you want to about. The high grades, I think squared is a great idea. You can read this on yourself. It'd be really really great.

So whatever. The cognitive side is falling off. It's not about learning. It's not about being challenged.

It's about getting an A in a piece of paper. So then the commercial purpose is what remains. It's a total of arguments. And that's what we're talking about for these young students.

But I don't think it's fair. Because the students still, the person who's making a choice of what to follow and go after. versus the influence of that. Maybe there's what it's like.

There's what it's worth it. You know what they're told. You do often get a good job. They're just something like the person has a choice of, I don't know.

I went to university practice. There's an English requirement as part of that class. We've made the same books that Adri and your class. Like if you just put in front of us, and maybe the teacher didn't teach us well as you do in your library class, but that's still kind of a way can something else I just did.

Well, I think maybe part of the literature is taught now. And in university, I'm not indicting everyone. I'm just saying that when we approach a book academically, the way that we approach it now is we take these grant theories and apply it to make and shove the book into these theories. Like the famous theory and the gender theory, we have all kinds of things.

So colonial theory, we have guys. We try to shove it into all these paradigms. And we dissect it and we talk about what the characters are doing and how they're doing. But it's, you know, we murder two, I guess.

It's a sociology masking as an literature. Well, we have a lot of masking as literally analysis. It's a, like, an infraig, it's a sociological anthropology being superimposed over a book and using the book to tell us something about our, that can sort of help shore up this hermetic. Actually, it's like taking a tiger and putting it on the side by second table.

And looking at muscles and looking at it's for looking at it, evolutionary origins and its different species and thinking about, we know everything about tigers, but we've never seen one run. We've never seen a tiger. We know what they even while, but we've never seen it. You know the difference?

We're not going to know anything about a tiger, but I've never actually experienced a tiger. You know, I feel like that's the best I know. Our kids here dissect the cat and biology class, and if you dissect the cat, but no kid would leave the dissection having learned about all the liver and lungs and brain and all sorts of things about the cat. Nobody would leave here and say, I know everything about the cat.

In the same way that they have a cat at home that's their cat that they feed that sits on their chest. And there's a number of them. They hate the middle of the cat. Well, it's the two different kinds of learning.

It's the rat show and it's like, and it's exactly like that. That's the way we approach a lot of topics. Harold Bloom has a good way of talking about it. Do you remember that?

No, no. Harold Bloom, do you remember that? He was a good way of talking about these harmonics of intermingling literature that I just talked about all these different sort of schools of thought. Post-colonial theory, fantasy theory, these, he calls them harmonics of contempt because they are coming in to literature wanting to sort of blame all the ways of thinking for modern societal ills.

And there's some truth to that. But that's all that there is that we can't read under chance Shakespeare apart from his place in human history. Is a taken as a given. Is not necessarily a given.

In the classical world, they're one of the given's literature in the classical education is that the world is fundamentally understandable. And that the human heart of 16th century has been in Russia is the same human heart as 2018 suburban kids in Austin. It is the same heart as Shakespeare and is the same heart as South America in the United like it. So even if you are an evolutionist, if you don't believe that we're created a certain way, or there's a God, you have to know that we've only been the way we've been for 2,000 years.

And that is non-of-time to evolve in any direction. So even if you don't believe in a God, you still have to say that we are the same exact kind of people with the same exact instincts that we have always been. And even if you think we may learn progress, well, we have more slavery today than we ever had. So we can't even necessarily say that.

So if we go back and say that, oh, Shakespeare's only a man who is a product of his times. And his time was all done. And so we don't need them. Then this doesn't have anything to say to us.

Dang, do we have a lot to say to it? Now that tends to be a lot of what modern, a new way of interviewing literature is, I was lucky that I happened to dodge that in my undergraduate education. I had great teachers. Look at you, I had great teachers.

They were awesome. But that's definitely a growing problem in the United States States. And one of the main classes in one of the colleges definitely in seminary courses in modern seminaries. I'll start moving from this conversation.

I totally didn't turn it off, which is awesome. We were going to talk more about his speaking universities, but I don't think that's helpful. I don't know. I've made a list of great books class for parents and teachers at Veritas in one of our conversations during great expectations was what a beauty can be taught.

I don't know. These reflections on experiences with beauty and how that attracted our hard sword education and things really helpful too. Something like that. But what is worth this interesting relationship, the university is a creation of the villages.

I think we would call it a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a. I would not call that. Like the growth of universities is high too. The reason why we have the Greeks and the work of Chinese works in Latin.

So I think it's really interesting that like, they also felt that's a wonder. And that's what spread people who were joining with universities. It's a very different system than what we have today. Okay.

But there's, I want to go back to you have the original Michigan, that, that, or that there's what's had about the institution. Because that sparked a thought in my mind. So, um, can we really, a paramount obligation of college is to develop in its students the ability to think clearly independently and the ability to live confidently, creatively and hopefully. So there, I, I worry that the modern relationship that we have with education is a fragile one because of how homogenous it is.

So, um, people say you need to have a college degree as if all those things are sort of equivalence. Um, depends, you know, regardless of what you've taken. But if, if everybody is doing the same kind of path, um, that puts a society in very fragile place. Like if everybody's doing the same thing, if there's one unknown that can, um, that, that can be deadly to that trajectory, then it can, it can, it can, what, everything.

It's like, if you plant one plant, if you plant one potato plant in your field, it may be very efficient and you may be able to maximize the yield, but only in a perfect condition because as soon as you have one blight that starts up, you can lose everything. Whereas if you had a, um, a farm that is inefficient, but you had tons and tons and tons of different paths that you could grow down or different paths, you walked down different potatoes, different crops. You have one blight and it ruins just a little bit, but you have all this other, all this other yield. But maybe you're not getting like X amount of food tons as you would in the first one, but you are more resistant to this.

And, um, so there's something that makes me nervous that when we have one model for human success and that model is, and it's what, yeah, make a requirement for being an active participant in modern world. And that is like 12 years of school. And then like a four year, uh, college degree. And then after that, um, maybe some sort of master degree.

If that is the only sort of, that is the ticket to survival in modern world, my fear is that there's a blight that could affect everybody. It's like, when there's an inherent flaw in the college system, it affects everyone that ends up ruling, running businesses and ruling the congress. It's not saying that people haven't been to college, can't you? No, but we tend to people who have been to college in positions of power.

And if they all think the same way and have had the same experience, we homogenize society in such a way that any flaw can be solved. And it makes it efficient. It makes hiring somebody easy because you can say that when college, that tells me something about this person. And that's right.

That's supposed to the difficult thing of having to get to know somebody, to see if they're good for a job. Are you calling all those potatoes? What's my opinion? I'm saying that like, we want to make this, we want to make things efficient.

And so college is a sort of stamp of approval that society has said, if you have done this, you are a ready worker for the workplace. But if that is the only path that we have, if there is something that comes in, and is a blight on that, then we sort of actually create kind of a more fragile society. Then if the path to success was a multifaceted one that actually required the genius of the person to figure it out for themselves as opposed to, can you conform to the path that we've said is the only way to do it? Are you promoting a guild system?

Kind of. Yes. No, I'm just promoting a healthy system. The health system.

The health system. Yes. I live a contrary idea or that that it is within everybody's best interest to realize that sooner rather than later they need to have gotten themselves out of something that's potentially fragile system. That's all I'm saying.

And this is something that applies to, you know, all sorts of things. There are lots of really interesting articles written about this when it came to mortgages during the mortgage crisis in 2008. Where once a lot of this is a run-off system like, and everybody was playing this game, all right, you take a mortgage, you take this 30-year loan at $500,000 and everyone's doing it, so if everyone's doing it, it's got to be this sort of safe thing. But then all these long-term packages and so long-term sales and it sort of was this blight that affected the entire thing.

And it's taking people 10 years to get out from under it. There's a fragility to that. And that can affect the human life. And it's the same kind of fragility where it's like, all right, well, it's 1970s and graduate high school, and everybody's going to take a job of factory.

Well, that was a fragile system because when the factory has changed, whole towns disappeared. So anyway, this is not, but you're talking about racism. No, sorry, you weren't talking about racism that was a prison analyst because it has a fun thing where he's like, you should bring to start in and build a bridge and you have lots of skills as a way, as an opposition to that really. I think practically in the person's life you should have multiple refugees, I think you should be able to have, and what class of education is hoping to do is make people generalists who have lots of different interest and things.

You're a big old cat. Where's the modern world is wanting more specialists? I can get you to be the perfect version of this. Then I can take your perfect specialization and fit you into the corporate structure with this person who has this perfect specialization so we can be the most efficient juggernaut of a business or whatever.

But again, that's a fragile thing because once one part doesn't work. So can we land this plane? Can we summarize what your initial goals were for being over- Sorry, we had to bring a card of the green references and nothing delay by the other. If you successfully done it, we can get it.

We can land it, but this is just something I want to throw out. So that's included. It's a few years ago, it was a much smaller major. Is this a good job?

Agriculture. Or maybe not in the capital? I was going to stand here in education. And then this is as of 2011.12 results.

What was my calendar? Education. Is that there? It's not.

I don't know. I wouldn't call it this major specialist. Yeah, that's for a point. Whenever I hear you say I have an MBA, I just keep thinking about it and I keep thinking of a pants and song.