#311 The Nazi & The Psychiatrist | Jack El-Hai

Dr. Adam Dorsay introduces SuperPsyched and interviews author Jack El-Hai about his book The Nazi and the Psychiatrist, adapted into the film Nuremberg starring Rami Malek and Russell Crowe. El-Hai explains how he discovered psychiatrist Dr. Douglas Kelley through earlier research, then located Kelley’s son Doug, who shared 15 banker boxes of Nuremberg materials, including defendant records and artifacts such as a vial labeled “Herman Göring’s Paracodeine.” El-Hai describes Kelley’s doctor-patient, transactional relationship with Göring, his role as a military psychiatrist working without precedent, and the ethical conflicts involved. He discusses Kelley’s conclusion that the Nazi leaders were “normal” and that this shook his faith in psychiatry, plus parallels between Göring’s cyanide suicide and Kelley’s later death the same way. El-Hai says his key insight is rejecting “monsters” as categories while still supporting justice.00:00 Welcome to SuperPsyched00:28 Nazi Minds at Nuremberg03:34 Why Jack Wrote It04:19 Unearthing Kelly's Archives10:41 Shaping the Story14:01 Evil Without Madness18:45 Doug Kelly the Survivor20:05 Göring and Kelly Dynamic27:57 Ethics in Uncharted Territory30:21 Leon Goldensohn Connection32:30 From Book to Film38:22 Living With Dark Stories48:38 No Monsters Just People51:57 Closing and SubscribeHelpful Links:Jack El-HaiThe Nazi and the Psychiatrist BookThe Nuremberg Interviews Book