I see this show sponsored by Henley, Henley, this show sponsored by Henley. This is it, Cathy. This is the big moment. Oh, OK.
A very big moment for me. This is just another show. Oh, just another show. Are you are you beating me, Cathy?
I forgot. There is no such thing. It's just another show. Every show is an incredible island of magic.
I thought you were going to say island of madness. That too. The following show is for mature audiences only. Listener discretion is advised.
And if you don't like it, please go fuck yourself. One, two, three, four. Do you feel your sex life is quite lame? Scared that your desires might be strange.
Come and join the kinky world of play. Yay. Hello and welcome to the Birdie Podcast. The show where we explore the adventures of the kinky lifestyle sex and the human mind and fetuses.
Oh my god, recording is usual for my desk, whereas Boogie is recording from a Starbucks parking. I'm probably going to be arrested any time soon for yelling out. Penises and and pussies. I'm Cathy.
I am cow boogie and it's OK, Cathy, because I'm protected. I am burning my mosquito candle. So not only am I protected from mosquitoes, but all criminal persecution and litigation. Oh, citronella candles keep you out of jail.
Do they? They do. That's a powerful scent. I'm all turned on that you know the bug ingredient of a mosquito candle.
Oh my. So those of you know what? My sister totally came to my rescue the other day. We were sitting in somebody's patio and she goes, don't move in.
And I know that she knows when she says something like that. I'm not going to freak out, but it's a tremendous amount of trust. Because somebody else telling you don't move. You fucking move because you think there's a fucking tarantula about to come down on you.
Exactly. But instead she goes, bam, she waxed my leg and there was the most giant mosquito I've ever seen just about to chomp on me. I just fucking hate those things so much. That is also the excitement of the temperature going down because we are just about another month and the bugs will start going away.
I literally am sitting here in my car. I have a mosquito candle burning so the windows can be open and I have bug spray on my arms and legs. I mean, it's a thing. You you will be eaten alive.
I know it's bad. It's really bad. Can't do it. Not when it's time to talk about penises and vaginas.
Oh my God. All right. We get it. You are a man who's thinking of penises and vaginas.
It's all that is in your little brain. We get it. No, I'm just excited that I'm not in the library. Really?
Because I listen to the shows when I edit and even though we're able to have good conversations and get the job done, I do notice that I have to kind of curtail like I'm like, instead of being like anal hook pull, I have to be like, anal hook pull. So what you're saying is in your mind, a show in a show, unless you can yell out in full voice, kind of hook pull. Kind of that's that's you have now evolved into the next level of show philosophy. And I'm proud of you for it.
I think what you would call that is de-evolving into boogie dumb. Whatever I get to I don't have to hide who I am. I think that's the thing because like I said, in that other kind of situation that I'm in, I'm very uncomfortable with the whole hiding who I am thing. And the library was kind of just another, you know, recording the show in the library and going, Oh, they'll kick me out of here if they know what we're talking about.
And then of course, some of the things we've talked about in other shows recently, I guess it's just kind of like I'm experiencing that freedom because it is important to be able to be yourself and a lot of people can't do it. I get it. But you know what we can do, Kathy? Clever segue.
Thank you very much. Was that a clever segue? It was not a clever segue, but it's a good segue because Fox slave emailed us last week. I don't know if you saw this wonderful kid Fox slave.
It is it what? What do you get to read there? What's going on? No, but there is a guy that goes to the gym where I park and he has Tourette's and you hear him in the parking lot because at first I thought he was just an angry homeless person screaming at someone.
But then he has all these ticks and stuff like that. And you know, I'm not going to go up and be like, Hey, Tourette's, I watch videos and documentaries. You just, you know, you just, you know, it sucks. He's got to deal with that.
But yeah, all the fucking fucking that fucking kind of trippy. It's kind of trippy. Very very bizarre, man. It is very bizarre.
It's just a neurological fucking anomaly that just can be so debilitating. It's I mean, it's funny to make fun of because it's fucking someone getting away with screaming obscenities, but it's actually just a fucked up way of life because it's it can get so debilitating. So I don't know how we got off onto that topic. But can't foxlave.
Faster. Fucker is a is part of a one day virtual conference for service oriented people. Okay. I didn't say that well.
No, it is a it's called service oriented conference. Yes. They are doing a service oriented card. It's a one day virtual conference.
October 16th, you can go to service conference.org to see about registration and tickets. So it's online. So everyone in the world can go and then you'll find out what time zone it's in because I didn't find out that because obviously whatever their time zone is it's going to be. But it's all about teaching about service for which kind of goes along with our topic or pet life topic today, which is a service for both dominance and submissives.
So it should be a really good conference. They asked us to give that a little plug service conference.org to find out about that one day virtual conference on service. It is pretty good. I went on I went on the website.
What I love about it is that they're doing it for both dominance and submissives because you would think from the title service oriented conference that is for submissives, but it really isn't. It's being presented by a bunch of people that really discuss service from both sides, how to accept service and how to give service. And it's oh my God, I thought I was going to log on there and find a little bit of stuff going on. It's 6am to 9pm.
Chock full of people talking, giving speeches, giving lectures and the thing that I love the most, they're only charging you on a sliding scale. So you can, you can basically donate anything from $5 to 10 the whole day all the way to 20 bucks. So that's really cool. I like that.
So I think if Kit Fox life is involved in that, we should absolutely plug it and that's a great thing. Well, very, very fine. Any, any shenanigans going on with you this week? Didn't you say you're going to another party?
I was going to go to another party and then it fell through because the people was going to go with, couldn't go. And it, I just don't feel like going alone. Yeah. I'm not ready to go alone.
It's definitely not to that club. And plus I'm a gold lady. I just, I don't like admitting that. But you know what?
The last time I was there when we talked about it, I was like 11 o'clock. I'm falling asleep. I want to go. I mean, in all fairness, yes, it might have something to do with the fact that you're across the old person, but it also might have to.
But it also might have to just do with the fact that we were in a pattern. When we worked there, that was every week, multiple, times a week staying up till two, three, four in the morning, mostly like two or three. But I usually had victims after the parties. So our shenanigans would go till three, four in the morning, no problem.
And then sleep for like three hours and get up and clean the dungeon the next day. So, you know, we had, we had dungeon muscles. I'm not touching. We had dungeon muscles and now we're kind of a dungeon flabby.
That's true. We are dungeon flabby. And I don't want to go back to dungeon muscles because I got to tell you, I'm sticking firm to my resolve and I don't have to really do a lot of effort to stick firm to that resolve. It's, I'm finding it tremendously easy to never ever, ever volunteer again for a kink establishment of any kind.
Never say never, Catherine. I can almost guarantee that's never going to happen. You know what? And that's totally fine.
But we can still build our muscles by going back and we're going, what? And like another week or so. Is it another week? Yeah, I guess I think it's almost a couple of weeks, well, maybe two weeks.
And then we'll go back again and hopefully have some more, some more tales to tell. We'll make it a monthly thing where we go to that particular party and have something to talk about. Celebrate your badge because it rocks, put a needle in your con-con fat life. Boy, your piece of mind, please know that the author of every post we talk about is specifically granted as permission to do so.
And today's poster has the most awesome name. I want this name. If I could, I would steal it from her. It is virtuous bitch.
Yeah. Oh, virtuous man. Why would you want that name, Kathy, of all the names? Because I'm a bitch and I, you know, I can be virtuous when I want to be.
Don't what do you still, I'm insinuating. You should put denial either in the front or back of that name, you know, because she already has virtuous bitch. So you could be denial virtuous bitch or virtuous bitch denial. Oh my God, you're ruining this moment for me.
You know that it. You're like, yeah, that's why I said it, bitch virtuous bitch. She wrote a great post and as you said, it ties in nicely to Kit Foxy Lave's little plug we did. It's a post called what is service?
She says, service is, in my opinion, the provision of pleasure, the gift of obedience, precise observance of agreed upon rules, work that enhances fulfillment, work that makes the dominance life more comfortable. When negotiating a dynamic, service should be defined by the very two people in the relationship. To me, a submail saying, I want to serve you by washing all your shoes with my tongue is not a service as no sacrifice has been made. I'll actually have to scrub them later with bleach.
So they've actually created more work for me. When I think of service, I think of real life dedication to tasks that enhance and improve our daily lives. These tasks reflect that you are part of a shared world with your dominant. For me, when you enter my house, you are part of it and must take care of it.
In the end, let service be defined by the two people who share the fruits of the service provided, but let it also be something that is discussed on a continuum so that no one is left unfulfilled. Ah, Kathy, this topic. Yes. This wonderful talk is this wonderful taco.
Sorry, I'm hungry. This is wonderful. I am for tacos always. This topic is so fun because it really, it shouldn't be that hard, but it really is if you're not a good communicator because so many people come into the lifestyle and they have like their fantasy version of what dominance and submission is and they just assume that that is across the board.
That's what everyone thinks it is. And you find out very, very quickly and the poster put a funny email that she read from someone about their like, hey, clean my house and they're like, what the fuck? I ain't cleaning your mouth. I was going to punch it.
And we've seen that so many times because there is a difference from play erotic submission and dynamic service submission. And they have totally different effects, totally different needs being met and totally different head spaces, but they are very, very different. And that's where I, you know, I wrote a billion notes, of course. And the first thing I always start with is that when you come into the kinky lifestyle, there's some things you have to know right off the bat.
We play with terms that are not the real definition of those terms. Slavery was abolished many, many years ago. There is not real slavery. So when we talk about slavery in the lifestyle, it's a dynamic.
It is a description of a type of commitment and dynamic that is very, very submission is the same thing. The real term of submission is basically you are giving up something you don't want to give up when you get pulled over by a cop. You don't want to be pulled over. You don't want to pull over, but you know, if you don't submit, then you're going to have problems when you're in a competitive fight, MMA, martial arts, that type of thing, submitting is not something you want to do freely.
There is a sacrifice that occurs that you submit. Now, the what you get in return of this can very greatly depending on what your headspace is, but there's a whole different world that isn't just play. Yes, very true. But this is the very reason the things you talk about are the very reason why I like this post because she does do things.
She talks about what submission, what service is to her, what it means to her as a dominant, but she goes on to say a very, very wise thing. Service should be defined by the very two people in the relationship. That is the most important thing. And I think that anytime you and I discuss service on the show, it always boils down to that.
We can talk about this type of service or that type of service or that this dynamic versus that dynamic. But in the end, as you say, there's so many different ways of doing it. And two people are more than two people in a relationship will always have needed to find for themselves how to do it. I also think that it's very telling how great of a communicator and dominant she is and that she really understands what service means and what the power exchange dynamic means when she says that the service is a dedication to tasks that enhance and improve our lives.
She doesn't say my life. And people who don't understand power exchange dynamics are, I, are, I think, missing that very key element. It is about both people in the dynamic. It is an exchange of power.
If you are a submissive and you all you do is give and you're not getting anything in return, that's abuse. That's not a power exchange dynamic in the least. So when I read stuff like this, all that says to me is this person understands they're not one of these people who's pretending in order to get what they want. Well, now here's a, here's an example not to go too far in a debate with you.
What I would say if it has been negotiated because there are DS relationships where the dominant flat out says upfront, you get nothing from me and other than what you take for yourself and I want this service and I'm not going to give you A, B and C in response. Once again, if it's been negotiated, then that wouldn't be abuse because both parties have agreed to the terms. And I know, I know that it from looking at it from the outside, you could think to yourself, I know I've known people who are in dynamics like that. And it's easy to look at it and say the submissive is not getting anything out of it, but you'd be wrong.
They're of course, right. You could be looking at someone who you think is getting something out of it. And in fact, they've got some emotional instability and they're allowing themselves to be abused because that's what, you know, they've experienced all their lives and they don't know any different. It could absolutely be an unhealthy relationship.
Sure. Really, if you're, if you're going into it because that's what you, you need out of it, then you're getting something out of it. You're absolutely getting your share of what's needed in that power exchange. It may not appear that way to someone looking at it.
Like for instance me, when I look at things like that, I want to scream because that is absolutely not something that I would put up with, not, not in any way, shape or form. I can be a very giving person, but if I, I become very quickly bitter and angry, if I detect that I'm not getting anything in return, that I'm just being used, that, that person isn't thinking about me at all or giving me anything in exchange for what I give them, but that is determined by the two people in it. And I agree. And once again, we can go farther into that dynamic where service is its own reward and you're there to give service because there are bottoms and submissives that their service is about specifically the service and whether or not they're acknowledged by the dominant or validated or getting any special treats or anything, especially when you're talking about in like a club setting where they're like the service submission, like the kitchen submissive or, you know, things that we've seen at Threshold and other clubs, you know, that for them, it is about the service and they don't need that reaction from the dominant.
But absolutely, I agree. If you're in a 24 seven dynamic with someone and you've been programmed to not ever receiving anything, of course, that can be abusive and bad. I totally agree with you on that. But once again, there's so many different aspects and something I wanted us to get into was the discussion of what different types of service can maybe give you mentally.
Because of course, we understand that our genitals tingle when we talk about sexual service and it's like, you know, crawling on your knees to the dominant and then serving them sexually or being available for them to use you sexually. That type of service is a lot of fun. But just like the poster said, there's no real sacrifice in that. The headspace that you're getting is you're getting off.
Whether you get off then or you get off later thinking about it or that tingle, that is one type of service, but it doesn't give you the same thing as doing a task that doesn't generate a sexual arousal. Does that make sense? It does. I get it.
I don't like I'm not saying that you're doing this, but I have heard other people on almost denigrate as sexual the sexual arousal you might feel doing during that kind of a play. That's just a straight up exchange. I don't know that that's it's not service which talk about it can be if if if your dominant say says tonight, you're just going to service me and that you will get no gratification. Sure.
I wouldn't like that. I wouldn't like that aspect of it because I don't know I would have a hard time with that, but I could be pushed into that. I could there are absolutely circumstances in which I could go for that and I could definitely get something out of it if I didn't feel like I was being used. Right.
And so that's why it depends on the on the relationship that you have with that person. If it's just somebody that I've just met and they're making me do that, they're going to fly with me because I don't understand you. I don't know you enough. I don't respect you enough.
I don't I can't really you're not in my inner circle. I'm not in yours. I don't know what type of person you are. The more respect I can be engendered between the two of us, the more that dynamic it transforms into something else.
And it reminds me of what she says at the end of the post, which is let it be something that is discussed on a continuum so that no one is left unfulfilled. If you don't understand that relationships evolve, that they change, that needs change, that you can that there's absolutely other avenues that you can explore, that can that you never thought could bring you something in order so that both of you are fulfilled, then you're you're missing out on a huge part of what service and what the power of exchange in general is here here. Now moving into some of the actual types of service that are not sexual that maybe some people miss out on because they have some pre existing programming that says that's not what they're supposed to do because it's supposed to be whatever they think this is in this and I'll take huh? Like what?
Like tea. Yes, like tea, like doing things. Now I'm going to go into some things that sound very domesticy and they're not sexual. They don't necessarily sound fun, but these are legitimate services that meet the needs of not only the dominant, but the bigger picture of that dynamic, which you talk about and we've we've talked on the show before of master classes that I've attended where the teacher talks about kind of the circular energy of service, where it's like you're putting your energy into helping the dominant or master live their life and have free time to think about the other things that they think about or to just relax from their stress, therefore freeing up that energy to be able to put back into the submissive or slave.
And so it's kind of like a circular energy that goes out to where you're talking now about the dominant or master's higher calling to where it's like you are doing domestic things like folding their laundry or going to their PO box and picking up packages for them or balancing their checkbook or any number of people, even if checkbooks anymore, I know that's stupid. You know, or any of those those things that don't seem important, but it then gives the dominant the ability to work on things that are their higher calling that are their greater service. Like with us, in this example, if I was to take on a submissive, they would have to understand that my mission is this show. And so if you're helping me do the tasks that I need to do in my life throughout the week, you are thus supporting me being able to spend more time on the higher calling that is perverted podcast.
And thus we are now circulating that energy. So you are not just doing my laundry. You are now being a service to the hundreds of people that you and I serve every week. Does that make sense?
It makes sense. You just you're you're you're hitting on one dynamic that I have a tremendous difficulty with. Yes, I know. Unless I am 100% on board with that thing.
And we see eye to eye. I have a really hard time giving up my my voice and my rights and my independence and what I want to see out of life because that's just the way I'm wired. It took me a long time to realize when I heard people in the in the community talk about how they their lives, they felt fulfilled when their lives folded into someone else's when they took on their cause for themselves, that it meant something to them. And I found I found that almost impossible to understand.
And it took me a long time to come to terms with it and really find a way to see pass my bias against it because I naturally don't feel that way. Yes. And so it's it's a very that's a very difficult one for me because it's and I think it's the same issue that any submissive is going to have who also happens to have a very strong independent personality. It's a it's a it's a line that you're always going to be struggling with.
And that's I should say that you are going to that's a line that I'm always struggling with that. I think is important because once again, there's so many different mindsets around submission around things that are going to benefit you. But we we do these things on a regular basis in areas that we don't get triggered by like how many people go to school and submit to that entire process. I don't know many college students that are like every day.
Oh my God, I love getting up early in the morning and fighting, parking and traffic to get a parking spot at school and then go in and take these 12, 14 units of classes and then go home and study and kill myself. You know, it's a process because they know there's a bigger picture at the end. They know there's going to be a benefit. They're going to be a better, smarter person, possibly set up for career, blah, blah, blah.
People go through trainings for different jobs, for physical trainings, learning languages, you know, there's all of these things that people do that challenge and push them and they submit to those processes. Yeah. I don't know that I see it the same way. I don't know that I would consider that submission at all.
Equiescence to an established protocol or an established process within society is not the same thing as submission. Well, I mean, that I give you. I don't, I don't agree. You know, but you're more specific about words than I am.
But what I'm, what I'm definitely getting at is there are so many things that are fulfilling about doing things for other people without an expectation of something in return. I think in the bigger picture of the relationship that I need to be validated in my relationships, of course, I'm the top or dominant, but I still need to know that the person wants to be there. But there is also something about simple service in a relationship. Al is a perfect example.
Al loves to just lose herself in domestic cleaning. Like literally if you put her, put a collar on her and let her crawl around your floor and clean, I had her clean gum off the floor at threshold for an hour. Of course I was, you know, there was play kind of in between. So it was, yeah, correct me if I'm hard, but every story I've ever heard about Al, whether it was you or someone else, she absolutely.
received something in exchange. Yeah. But in most times it was a tangible thing. Well, yeah, when she was doing stuff for Dell, then she was, she would get toys and things at the end.
But that's not really what the jam, it wasn't about the getting the thing at the end. When she talked about it very thoroughly with me, it was that space of just losing herself in that service to accomplish that task that she then didn't have to think about other things and that she would say to lose herself. And at the end of that, there was a service and it helped somebody get done what they needed to get done. And I know, I know you fight against this, but it's literally an entire genre of people that we can't ignore.
They like being of service. They like to say something. All right. I you can be absorbed in the process of what you're doing.
I have done that many times, but you have all people, because I've heard you talk about what fuck this, we're not going to do this for that person. If we don't get something in return, you have all people should understand that. What happens to a submissive when they don't realize that they're being valued? It takes the very active service that they are performing the very next time they do it, they find themselves doubting whether this is what I want.
If you put a submissive in a huge room and say, clean this and I'm going to go have dinner and when I get back, I want it all done and you come back and you don't say anything about what you expect the exact same thing that happened next day and the day after that and that kind of dynamic happens. Who said that was what it always is? Hold on. Hold on.
It's cold there. You know, you're always you're saying that there are people who lose themselves within that task and that's all they need. And I'm saying that when you look at that isolated event, they can absolutely lose themselves and that I myself have lost the eye. You think I haven't cleaned houses for people.
I cleaned creative explorers entire apartment. But if he didn't acknowledge me after it was done, I would never fucking do that again. If I did not receive what and I'm saying that what I want in exchange is not the same thing as what somebody else would want in exchange. But I don't think that there is a submissive out there who would continue to do things without being acknowledged or in some way being appreciated or praised.
And that is the return that that person gets. That is the exchange. But I'm saying that. I don't think I ever said this was all about no.
I mean, in certain situations, like if you're going to set up chairs somewhere or you're in a tea event or you're doing something in the kitchen where no one's there to pat you on the head, that's one thing you're at a place scene. I don't think I ever said in a relationship that it wouldn't be validation. It's just not the validation that you obsess over. Okay.
First of all, I don't obsess over them and didn't I just say a short while ago that I don't need the exact same thing that everyone else needs, but you do need something. So you and I don't see eye to eye on this, but there's no need to say things like that about me. Like I'm obsessing or that I don't understand this or that we're always arguing about the same thing. You're isolating what that person doesn't telling me that there are absolutely people out there who feel just the joy in that one thing.
And I'm not arguing with you at all. I'm just saying that we don't live in a little bubble of having performed that work when that work is done and you are in a relationship of any kind. When I used to make all the meals for threshold, I didn't have to be patted on the head. I didn't have to have someone standing over my shoulder constantly saying good girl, but I enjoyed poking my head in to the kitchen and seeing the smiles on people's faces and they didn't know that I was the one that made the food and I would just sit there listening to people enjoy themselves.
That was my exchange. That was my payment for all of that work that I was making them happy. Do you think that if I had there's actually no way that if I'd made this food and I was constantly hearing people complain about it and denigrate it and saying, oh, this thing sucks. My payoff is gone and I will never fucking make food again for this group or whatever.
It absolutely taints everything that you do. If as she says in the end of that post, it's not something if one of those people in the dynamic is left unfulfilled, not arguing with you. And I haven't argued with you, but I don't I don't feel that way about all my things I do. There are things I come from a place that has a very strong sense that every now and again, you need to do something and not be thanked for it because it's about me.
It's about me doing it. It's about me supporting something without having to get returned. It comes from the old Bible thing, you know, don't just, you know, wave your arms and say, look at all these things that I've done. Now, give me my praise and rewards that somehow sometimes you do something where you don't get that reward because that service is about me.
It's about me being of service to something helping an institution, creating something. Can I do it every time? No, absolutely. I totally agree with you on that.
But there are some instances where I think it's very healthy to not constantly be seeking, what am I getting out of this? Because those services are things that make me stronger as a person and I'm not even submissive. And I acknowledge that those services. So I think maybe we're just always kind of getting off that.
I don't know. We are. I think that you and I just don't see eye on that. I think that the times in my life where I've been willing to give that service without any, any payoff at all, any exchange in any way, even if just just an acknowledgement or making someone else happy have been so few and far between.
And I absolutely did not gain any, I did not gain a tremendous amount of self satisfaction from doing it. I can, I can pinpoint certain isolated times in my life where that did indeed happen, but we're talking about instances that were, you know, a handful in a lifetime of many events or things that I tried to do where I absolutely demanded that there was an exchange of some sort. So I don't, I don't seek it and I don't find the satisfaction in it that you do. But, you know, that's just one of the things you chalk up to what you and I don't, you know, I mean, that's why you negotiate with your partners.
We would never, never be in a relationship with each other. That's why I'm even a brofinger one. No, no, you lost brofinger privileges. You totally lost.
I'm not going to ask. No, you're going to ask. I'll still offer it. I'll still offer it because I'm a giver.
I'm a total giver. Yeah, that's right. I'm a predator. I love how everyone's like, I hate it when mom and dad fight.
What are they? Father's was all about service and and and being good and fine. Stop your whining. If mom and dad want to fight, you get in the corner and you just shut your trap.
There. That's mom saying quit your cripen and your whining. All right, pumpkin. Don't gaslight the children.
I shall gaslight the children. All right. Sometimes mommy and daddy need to let off some steam and yell at each other. And that's just the way life is.
And the same you learn that the better off you'll be. This is why I'm not a parent because I would be the worst parent in the world. Hey, perverted podcast. You guys, you guys want to go out and get some ice cream?
Here's my bucks. Go get some ice cream. I'll take you. Just let mom calm down and it's OK.
And we'll do this. Bring me some chocolate when you come back. Here's another five bucks. Bring your mom some chocolate when when you when you come back.
Don't do you like star chocolate? Don't don't bring your milk chocolate. What are you crying? Now we're going to get another fight because I don't know you.
You don't know that I love milk. Why are we together? Jesus Christ. This is like my childhood.
Yes. People are like, I'm so confused. Do they was this an act? No.
No, we fight all the time. You know, perverted podcast getting a divorce. Not anymore than every other week. Every week we get a divorce every week.
Well, you know, the funny thing is, is tenacious D with Jack Black and Kyle Gas. They had a part of their show in the early days where Kyle quit the band at the somewhere in the middle of every show and just walked off stage. And Jack Black would have to be like, Kyle, come on, come back. People people need us.
So this is our breakup. I think that I think that virtuous bitch is going to be thinking, why the fuck did I give these two idiots permission to do anything? Well, I think what's good about it and maybe we can wrap on this. I'll give you the last thought, but my last thought is this is part of the dynamics that service is a big deal.
Specifics are a big deal to a lot of people. And, and if you don't negotiate, I think this is a perfect example of what can happen in a relationship if you don't really at least try, because if you're new, you don't know, you don't know what your service is. You don't know what you like. You don't know what you've been burned by.
You don't know all of these things. So that's why you at least start by saying, we're going to try this. And if it doesn't work, we come back to the table and talk about it. Find yourself a partner you trust and go experiment.
You never know that I've talked to people who've been surprised by what it is that they're that they find fulfillment in when it comes to service. I agree. Now, Kathy, what? Be a good bitch and go clean up my storage.
All clean up your storage. I'll hire somebody to just wipe that whole thing out and now you won't have anything that you need to worry about. Oh my God. Uh huh.
Her birdie podcast. Listen, her segue. I'm going to get down this apartment. Dad, what are you waiting for?
I mean, here, come on. Give me. Kill me. Come on.
This is what we could do. I could just literally do bad Arnold impersonations for a half hour. And the listeners, two of them would like it and the rest. It would be like an Andy Kaufman show where like two people are left in the theater at the end clapping and the other 190 people had said, fuck you and left.
Can we sing mighty mouths? Yeah. Come on. You're safe.
Here I come to say the day. I don't know. That was that was wonderful. And just click, click, click, click, click.
We're going to go listen to Joe Rogan podcast. Just right there. A hundred people just went to Joe Rogan and then the other hundred people are going to off the cuffs. Hunger.
It is good to hear from you. You jovial young lads, you jovial young lad. What kind of I mean, let's just cut through the chase. You've been OK.
Yeah. Yeah. You're hanging in there like the rest of us. OK, very good.
So now the real stuff. What kind of kinky stuff have you been up to? When I first came out here, the situation allowed for it to be almost daily. But that's changed things change, obviously.
So what kind of stuff have you been up to? King wise, I know you said you weren't doing a lot as much of the hook pull and a lot of needle stuff, but you were getting into some other stuff. What are you up to? Well, I'll circle back on the whole thing.
Because it's funny you mentioned that, but we a couple of things we've been doing. A lot of shrink wrap suspension. We're not suspension of bondage. Nice.
Quite a bit of that because it's it's easy. It's easy to get out of and you get a lot more sensory deprivation just by doing it as opposed to rope rope. You get more sensory from ropes touching on stuff. This is what provides an amount of sensory deprivation, especially when you put it over the face over the whole body.
So you're doing like where you cover everything, except just leave some of the mouth open or you have like a tube or something like that. Wow. Just just the mouth left open. Sometimes it's just the arms.
Sometimes it's just the arms and the eyes, but that's enough in a short sense. Right. Now then are you doing any sexy stuff with it? Because I used to do shrink wrap where I would like shrink wrap a Hitachi in there and then but have it on a switch to where you can just turn it on and tease them.
And then they can't go anywhere because you're totally just like teasing them. Just turn it on and leave it. Let it go. Well, that is another type of torture.
That is definitely there's one that's denial and then there's one that's overstimulation. Yes. Yeah, I tend to go with the overstimulation forest. Nice.
That's the choice. And so yeah, that happens. I'd mentioned when I first came out here, we were doing a lot of stuff and it was easy to do. So I had gone from.
I was laughing because people will see me do something that I haven't done for a long time and be shocked. So people ask me, wait, you do rope. I was like, yes, I've been doing rope for a very long time, but I just don't do it often. One of the things I started doing was actually more shabari type stuff and actual pretty time as opposed to my normal, I'm going to take you down and make sure you don't get away.
Right. I don't care how sloppy it looks. Now I used to do more of the villain because a lot of the stuff I learned from Pro villain. Pro villain.
Absolutely. You've been in that we've been in that class like 17 times. Yeah. But yeah, every year what he did, he does it like twice a year.
It was a great class. It was a great workshop class and really got you started on villain roping. Yeah. Yeah.
Now, and even before he was doing it, I was occasionally take classes from people. He learned it from him and they were big on cosplay into a lot of the, I mean, the guy that did it before would actually dress up in the top hat and cape and do the tying to the railroad tracks. That's tough. This is what I learned.
It's great, but it's not the pretty road as much as you see now. So that's what we did. So I started learning some of that. I've kind of dropped off of that because life things change, etc, etc.
But yeah, it's so we've been doing that. We've been one of the newer things, randomly one night I'm asked. Do you do degradation? Oh, like sexual degradation or just like humiliation degradation or both.
A little bit of both. Both. Yeah. And so that's been incorporated more and more here and there, but not so much that it's the thing and you're doing it a lot.
It's just sprinkled in here and there. It's some spice that you add to your to your dish to make it not so much. I agree. And it's a wonderful thing to add.
But of course, and we had talked about this before you and I, not just on the show, but in private many times about, you know, how sometimes some words that you use on your partner turns them on one day and then another day they're like, no, this is not cool. Yeah, very much so. And headspace is something that really, I really need to keep into account when doing that. So, you know, with that, a lot of knowing what's happened through the day, knowing the headspace has been just from conversations.
So if it does drop into something, I know, okay, this is okay tonight or it's okay to at least tap and see if it's okay or no, not tonight. No, good call, good call. That's a that because that can go bad. And then you just stand there like a dumb guy and you're like, what?
But I thought you liked me and called a fat dumb pig. Yeah. No. Why, why did this vase just break over my head?
I don't understand. Yeah. You got it. You got to check in on that stuff.
Yeah. And usually she's already in if I'm going there, she's already in another headspace where doing it just makes it so much worse. So just be careful with it. But that sounds like fun.
And it's good to hear that you're doing a lot of a lot of playing and experimenting with new things because yeah, it is true. You know, you can even though something's like your thing, you know, you've got to change that point of view every now and again, because if not, you can just, I've seen people thing themselves right out of being kinky because the thing, and they just kind of run into a wall where they're like, oh, well, this is lame. And it's like, and they, and you kind of get so hyper focused on it that you lose track of the fact that, wait a minute, there's an entire shelf of ingredients that you are ignoring. Yep.
But I had another thing I wanted to ask you about because I was really excited to hear you. We've talked about this a lot on the show. And that is when you are in a community that basically has no kink community when you live somewhere and there's not really access to a kink community or your in an area that maybe has a community, but you don't like that community. It's run by people that maybe you don't jive with and or assholes, you know, that have like, you know, too strict of rules or, you know, they're trying to control everything.
There's a million reasons why you don't vibe with people. And we're talking about in a negative way, you're trying to be positive. You're not just trying to skirt the rules and harm people, but it's just, you don't jive with these people for whatever reason. And we always talk about, well, you know, all you need is a resentment and a coffee pot and you can start your own group.
And that's kind of what you done did. That is what we done did. Um, but eight of us, a lot of them in the TNG community, um, which stands for everyone, uh, the next generation, uh, and you'll hear a lot of that. That's kind of nationwide, at least in the US and nationwide.
You'll have groups that are 35 and under 30 under whatever age limit they set up. Right. Um, but you and I have seen people in their 60s and 70s come in for the first time at TNG groups. Yeah.
Well, not at TNG groups, but to a dungeon. Okay, right. They're not going to be allowed to come into a TNG group generally. Oh, yeah.
And that's, and TNG is frequently about teaching new people, but there aren't a lot of groups open to teach no matter what age you are. Right. They're just not. Well, I mean, it was different, like a threshold.
The TNG was a suggested party. So it was listed as a TNG party, but there was people in their 70s at that party. Yeah. So it's not, it depends on where you are.
We've talked on the show a lot about this where, you know, okay, you can have whatever group you want, but you, you, there are other people that need to be serviced. And that's what you're talking about. Yeah. And here they're really, they're really kind of strict on the 35 under, um, especially like access to, they've got their own Discord server and things like that.
They're, they're strict on that. I mean, the parties they allow people to come in if they're with someone who's under 35, I believe is the ruling. Right. I'm getting a head nod.
Um, but still you can't just be 65 and walk in. They're not going to allow that. Right. So that being the case, there not being a lot of other accessible new person learning things.
And I can never talk about this. We actually went to the local dungeon Friday. Um, this is a new thing. We actually did talks.
Believe it or not. Like I, like we're saying, yeah, we just did talks. Very good. Uh, and I can, there's a whole story about that.
But anyway, um, the dungeon is privately owned. So it's run for business. Um, so if it's not going to be making business, making money, they're also not going to be wanting to allow groups in smaller groups of people learning. So we don't really have that as an option.
So we just decided we're going to make it all much. Um, so we started a group. We've got a Fed Life page, a Fed Life group group page. Uh, we're starting a Discord server and we've had our first bunch already and we have our first class coming up.
That's good. Now then you said you had a core group of eight, but how many people showed up to your much? I believe the count was what? Sixteen.
Sixteen people, just, and some of these people you didn't know. Most of them we didn't know outside, outside the, so only four of the people that started this group showed up. So we didn't even have all eight of us. Right.
Oh, we actually had 21 people show up to the, to the much. That's fantastic. So only four of us were starting. One of them I had met on a virtual munch, um, that came out and there's, and then there were, you know, people who a couple of were friends of the people that were going.
But there were some people who, this is my first event. I don't know what I'm doing here. That's fantastic. So that was real good.
Now, so when you put this together, so you decided you were going to start a munch. You said you did a Fed Life group announcing the munch. Did you have some kind of basic rules in your post? You know, hey, don't talk of, you know, this is, we're going in public.
If you're new, don't, don't dress kink. Don't say, you know, things about kink unless we're in a private group, you know, where it's safe. Yeah, very much. So when the Fed Life event that we made, we know today, this is a vanilla event there.
Could be kids at this location, um, down in the, in the munch, though, I think I said amongst the gravel actually at one point when I'm talking about it, just because we were up above and it was fun. Anyway, um, sort of like this is just a place to come out and meet and hang out. Don't talk kink, but you know, out in the public, but when we're upstairs in a way, yeah, we'll talk. I'm not going to go to an indefinite things.
Um, and everyone followed the rules. The people we were a little, we were a little strict in how we let people in because we actually said, okay, if you're, if you've marked, yes, great. Come on in, uh, we're, because we were limited to the number of people we could have in the upstairs area. Right.
Um, so that was our one downside. And so we were like, you have to say you're going and we're going to take a list and check you off as you come in. That was just more for the, our limit than anything else. Um, but even with that, everyone was really happy and, uh, had a good time.
Everyone said that a good time. So we're going to continue forward with the group and our next thing is going to be a virtual class. That is absolutely fantastic. Getting a little bit back to the munch.
If the thing that's exciting about making your own much, well, first off, if you can make your own much, there are some people who would not go to a munch, uh, because they're worried about, uh, being seen, being outed, those types of things, because those are real risks when you do anything public, even if there's lots of rules and restrictions. We've talked about that on the show, uh, quite a lot, but if you can at least go out in a structured situation and a munch and you have that ability to make a post and going into a public place, like a little restaurant or meeting at a coffee house or a park, if the weather is good or any number of places is really not that difficult to do. I mean, obviously starting a munch at your house is probably a very bad idea in the beginning until you know people, but that's the whole idea of starting a munch is that you can go somewhere public, you can, you can chance meeting people. They don't know where you live.
You don't give your real names and it's such a great starting point and for people that don't have anything in their community, it may be the only way to find people in your community or town or whatever. Yeah, it can be or the people that you, if you aren't finding what you're wanting to find right in your community by setting it by setting some guidelines. Hey, this is a group about education for new people. Right.
That tells you right off. You're not going to be going there for advanced, abrasive elbow worship place from the past abrasive elbow worship shit advanced to play. It's a man there for that. You're going there for beginning classes.
So that type of thing, the concept there is if you're not finding what you want because you don't have that niche group, that's another time to make your own niche group. Sure. And also understanding that if you're going to start a munch or a group and it is something that's more niche and not as many people are into it like abrasive elbow play, then don't be surprised if only one other person shows up or no people show up. That's why it's good if you start a munch to just start with kind of a general.
We're just trying to meet kinky people that are interested in these types of things and then kind of expand out from there. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, this is because I came out with like a patient, a lot of the other people that are part of our core group like education are like welcoming.
We have one person. He enjoys welcoming new people into the scene. That's what he enjoys. Right.
Just because he's a really, really nice guy and he likes it. So his whole thing is when they get here, you come up and say hello and welcome. Because that's your thing. Right.
You know, we'll plan, but you do it. And he did. It was fantastic. Well, that's another thing that I think that's important to point out is if you're doing this with a group of people, make sure everyone knows what their job is, what their strong points are.
You've talked about this beforehand. You're going to be the greeter. You're going to be the enforcer of rules. You're the person that handles the administrative and the posting of the things and checking off people.
And that way everyone knows what they're doing so you can have an efficient running munch and then just get back to the good new conversations. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not the person you need to send in for that.
Yes, I will break it. You're all I am the one that picks them up by the neck and shakes them a little and says, you shouldn't do that here. Yeah. Well, that's that's exciting.
And once again, congratulations on making that decision. And of course, having your first one be really successful and hopefully you're going to build some great new relationships and help some people navigate their new explorations of kink. That's awesome. You had another thing with one more thing before we go.
You did. And I added it on the show. So now you're committed to doing something for it. You and I had talked about you had a real strong desire to maybe start a group or podcast that was dedicated pretty much solely to the idea of people that can't be out about their kink, either to their family or to their work and an entire thing that's dedicated to those experiences.
And then tips for navigating that and kind of that comradity of not feeling alone. Yeah. Yeah. So I was recently on another podcast.
We had talked about talking about kink and if you might have if I plug them real quick, no, sure. Go ahead. OK. I was on the podcast.
My single friends was one of the hosts is a friend of mine from Act Throwing. It's dating in your forties, basically, and the trials and tribulations of that. And that kind of got my going one. I enjoyed being on their podcast and I miss being on the part of podcast a lot.
It reminded me of that. But that whole trials and tribulations of doing something also kind of resonated with me. And I was like, I can do a podcast about being in weird groups and how to deal with that when you're in like a white collar profession. Like I am sure.
Why plan? OK, go ahead. Sorry. So my plan is to once our class is done next Monday to kind of dive first into that process.
So yours is going to be a general of people that have like your audience, your core audience that you're hoping for are people that have experiences where they can't be outed and they have to navigate being kinky and navigate their interpersonal and professional relationships kind of thing. Well, I'm kind of thinking, taking it a step beyond kinky and going into some of the other like just weird groups I've been involved in. Like the golf scene. There's a fine lines that people if they get too much into it are not going to be white collar professional sometimes.
Many are, but many aren't even more so. Well, industrial scene, you get more people who are right. The waistlancy, the post apocalyptic stuff. A lot of people who are professionals go to that, but it's it's, you know, I talked to people at my office about it.
Some of them thought it was crazy and we're like, I don't think this is how we want the business represented by you going to this. Who's going to know? Right. Well, so when so follow you on Facebook, I was like, no, not not the account that I'll be using for this.
So you're talking about all these different groups and just like if somebody still goes to the midnight showing of Rocky Horror Picture Show. Exactly. Yeah, you know, they can't really come out the fact that they're they dress up in Tights as Dr. Frankenfurter, you know, every weekend.
So it's anything that might be dangerous to your family or career, not just kink. Yeah, just something you don't want to be outed about. That sounds like a great show. That might be that might be a name out and about might be a good out and about.
Maybe I'm still I don't have a title, but I think I'm about some pretty cool. Good job, banger. I don't know how that happened, but that's how names are born. God damn it.
Yeah, the out and about podcast with hunger, hunger. And I'm actually considering using my ruling for it, not have it decided definitely one way or another, but right to kind of out myself more and take out to kind of take a risk on that. I'm going to, you know, leave that entirely up to you. I have no suggestion.
I we've talked about it, but yeah, you can go either way and yeah, I can go either way. But I mean, it's it's an honorable thing to take that risk as somebody who has lost a lot because of being who I am. I'm very sensitive when people are like, yeah, I think I'm going to just go ahead and fucking go out and be out. And I'm like, you know, yay, yay integrity.