This show is sponsored by Headlather, Mr. and me I'm supporting for burning my gas I'm in the mood Ah, for love Come on, Boogie, sing along with me Simply because you're near me Pre-show banter doesn't really work when there's only one person there I mean, granted there's a lot of people in my head But it's kinda just me So I think we'll just kick into the show and handle some stuff The following show is for mature audiences only Listen or discretion is advised And if you don't like it, please go fuck yourself One, two, three, four Do you feel your sex life is quite lame? Scared that your desires might be strange Come and join the kinky world of play Perverted podcast Woooo! Hello and welcome to Perverted Podcast The show where we explore the adventures of the kinky lifestyle Sex and the human mind Recording live Well right now in storage While I handle the business we have to handle I am Cal Boogie And this is gonna be a special show And I say special That could either be good or bad for some of you But it's really important that we have this moment together Because it does involve somebody who has been with this show Since the first episode And that of course would be Cathy Cathy has recorded as we requested She was really good about giving us some time And recording a message for us To you, the Perverted Podcast listeners, because she loves ya And I'm just gonna go ahead and play it And then we're gonna talk about it If you're brand new to Perverted Podcast And you have no clue what this is or what we're doing Go ahead, jump a few steps ahead Sunny's coming in a little bit And we're gonna have a great talk on Central King Play And then who the hell's afterwards?
Oh yeah, Jen Jen's coming in later on in the show And we're gonna talk about some of her experiences But for this next 10-15 minutes We're gonna talk about Cathy And we're gonna talk about Perverted Podcast And I think it's real important to get us together as a team And on the same track So first, let us hear from Cathy Hi everyone, it's Cathy I just wanted to let everybody know how much I miss you And how much I miss recording with Boogie My weekly recordings with him over the last six and a half years Have become in my life such an expected and predictable occurrence That it's strange to suddenly feel like they belong to another life Or another time I'm sitting in my room with a door closed talking into a mic But in my mind's eye, I picture you all in your homes In your cars, during walks or at work Listening to me ramble on As you do the dishes or clean the house or take a shower It's truly a strange time we live in Where I can feel so amazingly close to people I don't even know Where we can connect despite never having met I know it's my imagination to consider you all friends But it alters me nonetheless This show has altered me and all of you have as well It's difficult to explain what's happening in my life Without going into more detail But I'm gonna try briefly so that you can all understand where I am In a strange way, I kind of feel like I owe it to you guys My sister and I, as you all know, are very close And we have been on similar trajectories in our lives But only recently realized just how much so When we both hit the same wall in our respective lives Both instances were traumatic Both were life-changing And both have necessitated huge changes Some physical and some psychological While they also differ in many ways In both respects, these instances were unexpected We were thus unprepared And were at the hands of others The ensuing chaos has resulted in an absolute maelstrom of emotions Shock tremendous self-doubt Sleepless nights, days and days of crying And thankfully, therapy The end result, although it is far from over Is that we both had to step back from our lives In order to see to our own physical safety As well as to reassess our lives How the fuck we allowed ourselves to get to this truly destructive place What our own personal responsibility was And where we want to go from here It's required a tremendous amount of work and attention Which is why I've had to pull back from so much My calendar looks so empty compared to how it used to look And still, I'm struggling on a daily basis to get everything done That I need to get done In order to get us to a sane and balanced place I'm sorry I can't give you more information But if you knew the details You'd understand why I cannot at this time Set aside my grief, my shock, my anger and my fear In order to pretend everything's okay While I record a podcast I'm simply not that good an actor It's at times like these when I'm so grateful To have family with me As small as it is And more importantly to have my sister by my side It hasn't always been that way But we're both at a time where we realize that You know, maybe living out the rest of our days As spinster sisters living together Having tea on Sundays and gabbing like obitis Isn't such a bad thing And actually sounds like a pretty good life I have no doubt that she and I will get through this together Although our lives will never be the same It's also at times like these when you realize Who you can rely on and who you can trust It's no surprise to me that boogie Despite all of our differences in our characters and goals Is one of those true friends I can count on one hand that people I currently feel safe around And I consider that a really great number It's more than a lot of people have I don't really know what the future will hold for me I only know that for the first time in my life I have to consciously and determinately make myself The priority in my life Where that will take me is anyone's guess I love you guys so much I miss you and I hope you can understand Please take good care of yourselves Thank you very much, Kathy Thank you very, very much, Kathy I'm not exactly sure how to proceed Of course you guys know me, that know me I have 10 pages of notes And so I can try to be coherent It's very difficult for me to talk by myself Because there's so much stuff that's just Always swirling in my mind And part of doing a show with people Helps ground me because I can focus on listening to them And you know, then I have my notes And that's how it kind of works for me So if this gets a little weird and rambly Then just, you know, well, fuck it This is who I am and let's go So 330 episodes plus Kathy has been here since the first episode And we've evolved together As communicators We were both fairly good When we started the show I think both of us are much better communicators now Because every week we have to We have to really invest ourselves in these topics And you can't not learn You can't not learn things You read hundreds and hundreds of articles And we've done like, I don't know, like 1,500 fucking segments You know, you have to grow And so we grew together And we evolved as shows Just as people who are able to talk And to kind of sense what listeners You know, are looking for And what things inspire them and entertain And yeah, half of it sucks But in general, you know, a lot of you are still with us So we've done that together I believe Kathy's work On perverted podcast Absolutely speaks for herself Her actions prove to me And I'm sure to many of you Without a doubt that she was invested in you She was loyal to you Her and I had some fucking knock-down Scratching cat fucking dust all in the air fights We still got on the show And still put our time into you So the fact that she was willing to do that Even though we've had our problems That we've dealt with and talked through And communicated with you about And found ways to navigate that She has been so loyal to you And it's been super amazing to be next to somebody That invests in a listener Like she's invested in you Right now, as you just heard And some of you have been with us for a while So you know, all the shit with Creative Explorer And everything that's been going on In her life without getting into Too many details, this new situation Has made her have to say that she has to focus on herself She's invested in you for 330-something weeks And now it's gotten to that point To where she really needs to advocate And invest into herself and her family And I'm sad I'm sad and it hurts and it's disappointing But I mean the first thing that kind of slapped me in the face I mean, I know what's going on So, and I've been a little closer We don't talk much during the week But when there's an emergency We always have each other's back That's one thing about Kathy and I love or hate whatever When there's some shit that goes down We can get on the phone with each other or meet And give each other love and support Because we just have that level with each other But from what you know We have a show that is dedicated to encouraging people To advocate for themselves This is going to be sloppy, sorry I'm kind of squirrely But we have a show that's dedicated I wrote this down, I'll just fucking read it to you We have a show that is dedicated to encouraging And inspiring people to advocate for themselves And make those hard decisions Even if it disappoints someone That's what we've done From day one To tell you that you should be able to stand up for yourself Even if it disappoints someone Even if you're a bottom And you're afraid you're going to disappoint the top Or the top to feel whatever it is You deserve to advocate for yourself And to find the best solution for yourself So, because of the six years of saying that And preaching that message I can't do anything other than be supportive of Kathy I have to It doesn't fucking matter what I feel Or think or you know getting scared Oh don't leave a bit of it Because it would be hypocritical It would be really hypocritical To not do anything other than teller I love you, I support you We got your back Even if you don't use us We're here And that's it That's the only thing that is right to say So I don't like this I say I'm excited for new adventures But I'm not always fucking excited for new adventures I'm fucking old man I'm tired of shit changing Because of me Most of the time But sometimes it's external Sometimes it's pandemics and this and that You know all the stuff that went down It's shit hole You know I had a part in that I made choices That made changes in my life happen And I have to accept that But man sometimes you're like Can we just fucking cruise for a while? But no That's not what an adventure is An adventure is change An adventure is shit happening And situation is going different And then the hero of the adventure Has to adapt to it Hopefully in a way that makes it better So both Kathy and I And you are perverted podcast listeners Are in this moment Right now together And we all have to deal with the present right now The future hey fucking Let's see what happens that's great But the last few weeks that we've been doing this You've seen We're still doing a show And it's still a very similar show Just without Kathy We have guest hosts We have some that are like path girl Lady Solaris You know You know Of course we have Unger And Enigma and now You know Sunny is going to be on a little bit later My Michelle you know We're bringing people in The show works We're still able To put out perverted podcast And put a show that I think And I hope Is still engaging and interesting for you Now then that being said That some of you really really liked Kathy And some of you Really really really maybe don't like me that much Because of my personality And that I'm very offensive And I'm very obnoxious And that may rub you the wrong way At that point some of you are going to leave And that's a go and piece man Find the show That works for you If you were hanging on Because you want to hear what Kathy has to say Then she's not here So uh Needs me with you man I don't want to be Fucking around this guy either But I got to live with him Because I'm kind of We're all stuck together Here in this you know In the skin thing So that's a lot of ramble Sorry But to Kathy If she's muscled through this segment Because she probably isn't eager She's like I wonder what they said about me That's not really how she talks She'll be like Why did you say about me? Which I no longer have to edit Bitch Uh Anyway Kathy I love you Perverted podcast I love you and I'm dedicated to you And uh Change happens And you just keep rolling with it You adapt And that's the adventure So without further ado Let's get onto the show Suck them on man MIMPOLS You're gonna get an EMO Coast topics better than SONOMA MIMPOLS Well hell yes, Sonny I need a giant paddle That says sensual play But are you gonna bend over for it? Uh I tend to be on the swinging end See that's what I'm saying This is bullshit This is some bullshit here Cause we're top bros now We need a victim That's where the level out used to be cool, Sonny Cause you and I could be total top bros But there would always be some victim That we could play with That sounds like a good time Yeah It was How are you doing, Sonny?
I'm doing okay Yeah It's fun to be doing midweek Any, it's a nice uh It's breaking up the monotony of the week By getting into perversion It's always a good thing to do Yeah, do something a little fun to mix it up Mix up Have you had any uh Playtime since we last talked? Uh yes I have Anything good and sexy and fun Yeah, um I actually had some time with my daddy recently We got about half the week together So that's pretty nice Details details, come on details Details, come on man Um our play is a lot of CNC Essential, consensual, non-consent Yeah and we're both primal So um You know we like to get into the Little bit of like wrestling stuff That we just talked about that last week With ungrateful I know, I enjoyed that episode That was really fun You're like getting me in there So do you, when you wrestle with your daddy Is it pretty much you guys are just like Competing for whoever gets on top Gets to do the next thing Or is it Oh I'm gonna let you win eventually I usually go pretty full out But he does tend to win He's a lot bigger and stronger than I am And I'm quicker and I'm more flexible So that helps You know, so usually we'll We'll do like a tap system or Or something like that But I mean there have been times Where I've like locked my legs around his head And tried to choke him out So he just like stands up in my body Hanging from his neck And that could be like a real thing That someone might win Is if they were watching us See like a sunny necklace Yeah, I mean you know I try to get control of his head Sometimes he cheats and tries to get some ropes involved Oh my god This is this is very much like Unger and Accu It's just where that size is See then you just got to play dirty You got to go for ribs You got to go You got to go for them You know, flick the kneecap a little bit Not too much Because you don't want to dislocate his knee But you want to let him know You know what? If you want to play that way I can use my advantages as well Yeah, and you know, ultimately You know, I end up in And you enjoy that We know how it's gonna end But if I can give him a run around And it lasts for a while You know, the longer I can sort of hold him On the more pride I have in the situation Ah, that's good though But it is fun And it ends up de- So do you guys after you get all girds You get real sexual or You know, do you just take a shower And get a cupcake? Or you know, like where does this go?
Most of my play is usually sexual So, you know, if we're gonna do a pinning Seeing it, it's ending in sexy time Good job Good, good Boogie approves Mmm, yes I'm such a pig I am such a pig I just lived through you this week Ah, Sonny Well, that's good I'm very glad that you had some fun And that you got some crazy time in So today's topic that we're gonna talk about We've both been very excited about this And this is something that you Have a lot of experience I think in general There's no way to really get This whole topic out In one episode So of course, just like with anything else It may be something that we have to break apart Into other things Like maybe this episode We'll talk about the what and why And then get into more examples In another segment But we are, of course, talking About sensual play And or slash Sensual B-E-S-N I don't want to take out the romantic term You and I had a discussion about that And you're like Yes, we did What the fuck are you talking about? So on Twitter Just for our listeners The listeners that know no But to our newer listeners One of the things we're trying to kind Of not necessarily get completely away from But offer people other options In how they describe kink A lot of people for years and years and years It was just called BDSM And it's a kind of a sexy romantic term But it's also kind of archaic In that it doesn't apply The bondage discipline Sadomasic is in dominant submission Doesn't necessarily apply To a lot of types of play That people are into now Like role plays and age plays And I mean it does and it doesn't Plus, there's also some negative connotations To BDSM When new people hear the term BDSM Which I have experienced personally Speaking in the colleges and doing panels People hear BDSM I'm not into any of that weird BDSM stuff But then it's true But then if you ask them So have you ever done some scratching Or biting in your play with your Well yeah, I do that It's just kinky stuff So you're like aha There's a possibility that this term May also have some negative connotations For people because it's always been In the media described It's kind of like a freak show And it's always the Dominique tricks making the man sniffer shoe And shit like that So we try to mix it up And allow for that term Because it is a very romantic term But we also try to keep it Towards describing things as kinky Kink play The kink lifestyle And then BDSM kind of in it Does that make sense? It does make sense I think I strive towards authenticity For myself And that is actually something that I engage in Often, you know, those things Are still part of my play on a regular basis But I can see how it Does not apply to a broader audience sometimes Well now that we've given this big I've given this giant fucking annoying dissertation Let's go ahead It's okay if you refer to it as Sensual BDSM Because that's what a lot of people Refer to it for years So we'll just call it Sensual Play or Sensual BDSM But it's both pretty much The same thing When we talk about this I'd like to start with the what You know, what's the difference Between sensual play BDSM And non-sensual BDSM Is one more with flogging and touching And building and sweetness And feathers Or is the non-sensual More disciplined, authoritarian, more oriented Power-exchanging kind of thing What are your differences? What is Sensual BDSM to use, honey?
So for me, it's not so much about The type of play Because I tend to bring Sensual Kink Sensual Play To all of my play Regardless of whether it is Like a really sadistic scene Or a really sweet one For me, that's not what defines it For me, it's more about It's a sensual scene If you take into account All of your five senses Your partner senses And take control of those things Both with giving sensation And through deprivation And having a balance there And so it's sort of mastering All of the senses That makes it sensual BDSM more Sensual Kink See, I have a little note for myself Remind myself to show you Right yourself, that's okay We'll get through We'll find the balance You know what I'm saying, okay So no, this is really good So in your instance There's not really a separation of the two For me, I always considered Pretty much exactly as you said Where the sensual was about That interaction, controlling the senses Sometimes depriving of the senses In order to build things But it was always kind of Even though there was pain And say, no masochism In sensuality When I thought of non-sensual play It was more role play Like discipline areas School, teacher, students You know, more DS Where there was less contact And more about the dynamic And protocol For me, but you kind of include All of that together for yourself Yeah, you know, I think because I have a lot of different types of Play that I like to do And I can see How there could be a difference No matter what type of play is on the table Like you could do a really hard capture scene And like some knife play And it could still Even though it's a really hard scene Be, you know, a really dark or edgy scene It could still be really sensual You know, if my partner runs a blade down my back And I can feel cold metal And they're taking advantage It might not be cutting or scratching But you know, they're taking advantage Of me noticing that sensation So that I realize what's in their hand And, you know, that is that sensual Yes I approve, sonny Do you need a minute over there? Well, that's like one of my jams I talk about all the time Like one of my favorite ways to fluck Is my partner's doggy style While I'm dragging my blade down their back And that's like, so when you're liking, I'm like Ah, blade On the back, yes, definitely a sensation And once again, that goes into Many levels, you know, the sensations Can be very strong sensations Or they can absolutely be that fluffy sensual Feather with a blindfold And, you know, you know, dragging the chocolate dipped You know, like the mainstream view The 50 Shades of Grey type of cake That can still, that is still a level of intensity And I want to talk about some of those things But there is no right and wrong Other than, of course, consent negotiation And, you know, being a part of the other person's, you know, betterment In a scene But there are a lot of differences In what you can do sensually So I wanted to get in, because you're real big on the five senses So we have touch sight hearing smell taste So let's go one by one through these So when we talk about touch Obviously, temperature, pressure, tickle, pain, interpretation, inspiration All these things associate with touch So now, when you're using touch in your sensual play How does that work for you? Yeah, and you know, as we go through each of these You know, keep in mind that it's not always giving Sometimes taking away is really what's powerful And if you remove one sense or several senses What you're doing is you're heightening the ones that are remaining You know, so for touch, you know, a lot of people are kind of focused on You know, like the business Oh, they're going to say it What's going to give me a right now? I just want you to know, you can use any language you want here It's, you know, like any language I want, except for BDS I'm not really going to say it Oh dear, god, really, god I had to tease you a little bit That's okay But, you know, seriously I think about the whole body People have so many erogenous zones Places where they like to be touched or feel sensation And also places where it might be uncomfortable And depending on what kind of play you're engaging in Both of those are important You know, you think about things like temperature About texture Even pain, you know, pain is not one thing It's a spectrum When you think about pain, you have stinging, you have study You have, you know, pain that aches, pain that lasts, pain that burns Pain that's acute, it's like a shock and then goes away It's a whole spectrum and for me, you know, when I do essential kinky play You know, it's pain is just another sensation that you can experiment with And, you know, when that's not your only focus When you're not just thinking about touch Because I think that's the first thing people think of When you move away from that and you start to incorporate The other sense is that's when you really get into more sensual VSM territory Very good, well then let's move into some of those So let's take sight for the next And so sight, of course, can be allowing it, taking it away It can be different visual effects If you are somebody that is fortunate enough to see First off, we'll say that there are people that are visually impaired That they have different ways of approaching this But if you have eyes, you know, different colors that you introduce The environment that you create for your partner Different, how would I want to put this?
It's hard when you deal with light Because it's like, you know what you see And then, you know, it's just like, yeah, like mood lighting Well, what are some of the things that you think about When you think of sight and visual inspiration? Things that you interpret based on sight Like you show objects and things that cause you to have a trigger feeling Whether good or bad or something you're challenged with You know, the stuff on the surface that everybody does without thinking You know, you think about you see your partner And you think, you know, wow, they're hot, they're attractive But then you start to influence that You start to maybe you choose sexy lingerie Or some fetish gear that has a specific meaning You are immediately, as soon as your partner sees you Starting to set the scene You know, it's not just about what you're wearing When you have like a lineup of toys So if I show my partner a lineup of impact toys And they know they're in for thrashing Right You know, it builds anticipation Or if I take their sight away and they know they're in a room full of toys But they can't tell which one is in my hand They're gonna have to use their other senses to figure it out You know, so by giving or taking away By showing somebody something deliberately Or deliberately not allowing them to see what's coming You can make a really big impact Absolutely, wonderful, let's go to hearing Hearing obviously vibration, low to high Chords, which are two sounds that have either a good, bad or dissonant Quality when they are put together Which of course goes to the same thing as sight Where there's associations And some of those associations Audibly may be different from depending on the environment you're in Like screams in an apartment mean Call the police, you know, screams in a dungeon mean that's fucking hot You know, so there's a lot in that spectrum And of course when we talk about music in a play scene Or we talk about the sound of a voice Or how you use your voice To create a sound of authority Or a sound of submission or a sound of service There are so many things that that vibration that goes into your head Can create that obviously sound is a big part for a lot of people Right, I mean the sound of your partner's voice You can tell what mood they're in Sometimes just by the tone of someone's voice You sort of get a sense of what you're in for Sort of thing, you know, and if you imagine that maybe Maybe you're blindfolded and you can't see What's coming but you hear the sound of an impact Implement against your partner's palm or against the floor And you know what's coming because you can hear it Or you hear footsteps approaching And all of these things tend to build anticipation Maybe you use really loud music to drown out Your footsteps so that the person can't tell where you're coming from And add to the element of surprise Or you choose music that conveys a certain mood Maybe you always play the same kind of music when you're feeling sadistic And something different when you're feeling sweet I love that because that is so true Because I mean these are all the little tells And once again as we're building this I just keep hearing that this is a building of a relationship I mean it's great when you throw all these things on in pick-up play And it's something that's new and exciting And really there's a lot more anticipation in pick-up play Sometimes because you have no idea what this other person is capable of Or what the bottom is going to give you Or where they're going to be afraid or respond or whatever But when you have something that you're building with somebody And you become lovers or you enter into a relationship All of these plays and all of these tells Just start to add to this giant level of understanding The other person as well as how you're going to respond to it And so the engaging of all these different senses This is that stuff that's so juicy and so primal Because it's the unspoken things It's the things that don't necessarily have to do with Black and white on paper Right, you know with time you can start to build associations in somebody's mind You were joking you were teasing about Pavlov and Right the other day You know but a lot of and I'm going to use the word BDSM Because that's what I'm talking about We already talked about it But you know when there's there's classical like training for example Involved you know that's a type of creating association You know if you do X this is the Y response You know and you think about things it could be anything it could be a flavor You know maybe when you open a certain kind of line Or you're wearing a certain perfume or essential oil They start to associate that with your mood And you can start to create anticipation expectation that sort of thing And I think that step one at a beginner sort of level is just to Acknowledge all of the senses start to notice these things And then as you get more advanced to take control of them You know for sort of scene development And then you know eventually you get to total mind-fucking Which is really awesome because essential BDSM is a mind-body spirit Experience Absolutely, so I mean you already started touching on smells Which are very influenced because we have so many things that we associate With smell you know from holidays to certain vacation spots that we go to You know moods family, you know different things like we're you know Obviously smells are very important to the human animal because you know we decide this smells good So maybe it won't kill me and this doesn't smell good So maybe you know maybe I should stay away from that And I love how you just clicked on and we'll get into this and some of the why that you can part of sensual play Is that you can fuck with that ideology that that idea that somebody has in their head You can now take it and break that and and that becomes fun too We'll talk about that in the middle. So I guess the last one would be taste Which of course can be both good or bad most of the times When I incorporate flavors into my sensual play It's a lot of reward base like when you're trying to change a behavior Help someone deprogram a negative with a positive Not watching anybody's mouth out with so well, I'm not saying that doesn't happen That's a different kind of scene though, but what in general happens with my because I've had that is I remember my mom used I remember my mom was a little abusive and she washed my mouth out with a fucking steel wool SOS pad and I spit blood for a few hours, so I'm a little there's some things that I'm like, yeah, maybe Am I gonna do that? Because those things can be a little crazy, but on the nicer end I like using like special treats That uh that kind of reward for different behaviors And and then it's like a little celebration because I mean we understand a lot of that Um some of us from child rearing, you know The parent wants you to ask good look just fucking don't fuck with me and I'll buy you your dumb ice cream cone You know and so that was like so the taste of that ice cream is kind of like a little victory for you You know, you're like I did good, you know, this is this this flavor means I fucking owned it I didn't you know, I owned it or I'm manipulated for it either way, you know, it depends on depends on where you're coming from with that Yeah, or you can create associations, you know, like maybe you get a lollipop along with Spanx Yes, and then every time you want to eat one of those until the end of time you think about grasping fresh Um with hypno play um taste is is often um incorporated and it can be really fun Um, I happen to have orgasms when I eat chocolate frosting or chocolate donuts Um because that association was was formed during hypno play and even when I'm not in a state of trance You know, I might not have an orgasm like if I'm having you know a donut at an office party But like that little like impulse that twinge is there that reminder Like maybe I better have the jelly one Quick this one out of the desk just kind of close my eyes and say I just like donuts all right, let me alone Okay, maybe that's not appropriate.
I'm sorry. Everything in my world is about that scene in the matrix where the mira vingian creates the perfect Uh bite uh for that dessert and then the hot woman eats it and then it shows her body reacting to it and it goes straight to her pussy And her clit and she explodes in an orgasm from eating the bite of thing that to me is Oh, one of the first mainstream sensual plays that I thought you guys get it you guys get it Sorry if you haven't seen the matrix and you live under a rock. I'm old. What do you want?
It's funny to think I'm old for seeing the matrix, but uh, but goddamn it. That was a good scene. Sorry. What were we talking about sensual play?
Okay Cupcakes Chocolate frosting no, but I mean, you know whether it's a scent um, you know in your animal brain You are gonna have triggers that are associated with scent. It's very nostalgic It's gonna trigger memories Um and when you start to use scent and use taste in the other senses to create memories and to create associations Um, that's when you start to have control Um and that kind of leads into the why a little bit, you know, um, you want to have more control You want to have a deeper connection Um, you want to have hotter scenes where you're you tuning out the rest of the world and you're 100% focused on what's happening in the playspace You know, if something is making an obnoxious noise in the background, um, it's gonna be distracting Right or if it's the distract once again when we talk about Retraining like somebody like me and and you hear this a lot in like comedy training when they tell you to learn to overcome these sounds in a lot of meditation Um to ignore because there's always going to be distractions in the world there's always going to be loud cars and loud this and you know chirping fucking bird this and Part of your training can also be to learn how to push those sounds out And to just let them be kind of just a part of the working universe So that it doesn't actually get to the point to where to noise you Um, but you can just accept that those noises are there and I've done a lot of this practice in the dungeon When people are like, I hate this music or or this, you know, these people are annoying or I know this is going on or somebody's making weird noises in the Dun you know, because it happens or noises. It doesn't mean we have to fucking like all of them We had snarfs snarfs in there that sounded like some cat was being raped and it was just it was like literally Literally cleared the whole room like on more than they had to finally talk to this person and say look We love you, but these the sounds you're screaming at the top of your lungs And it's there's other people playing which is all dungeon etiquette segment that we haven't dealt with in a while Right, but it is part of the process and when you get into the wise Of this sensual BDSM like a lot of the things you say sometimes it is You know just for that sensation and that connection with your partner, but sometimes Dealing with those five senses is a really great tool to deprogram negative things that have happened to you And I think it's really important that we understand that those tools are there and once again, you know, we talk about it all the time We're not this isn't trained therapy, you know, we give Ideas for people to try things of course if you're really fucked up in the head, you know try to find a quality quality therapist I'm not a therapist. I'm not a god, but I'm just not a professional god So so get therapy if you need it, but um, but it is possible to reprogram some of these negative experiences You've had in your life with these sensations like just like the Pavlov's dog thing you were talking about Right and um, you know, I am a person with PTSD and um I do some work on the same very general terms with other people who have PTSD Um, and one of the things that we talk about is when you're having this sort of out-of-body experience you're dissociating you're floating Um instead of going down that sort of negative rabbit hole You can ground yourself and reconnect to your body and reconnect to what's going on around you by holding on to something really cold Like a piece of ice or a textured object and focus on that sensation Um, so you know regardless of where you're coming from Central BDSM can be a really great way to sort of reconnect with your body to stay present in the moment to connect to your partner Um, and I really think it's something that is for everybody Absolutely and and just on the fact that there are certain needs that we have that we've been maybe programmed because of our external circumstances and pandemics and jobs and not being in relationships and moving away That there are still certain things that you need and touch Happens to be on that list, you know We need to be touched like this last couple years for me has been wildly Odd and distant to where things have changed in me mentally because I've had so little touch like literally I had one place seen at the dungeon Uh a month ago and before that it was uh july That I actually had um something and then I don't touch people.
I don't shake hands. I don't hug people I'm very very distant So there you start to get a little weird after a while and you think you're going on I know you got the kids and the job and and all of these things but these are things that that are built in To our humanness. That's even a word is human. That's a word Humanity.
Oh humanity. I don't know. I think humanist is cuter Whatever so humanity people stuff. It's people see that I even like even better.
That's the winner. God. Damn it, sonny But it is these are things That are communication tools that you can work with your partners that just can have so many lovely Empowering memories that you can build with somebody and I just oh man There's so much to talk about the next time we the next time we talk about this We'll get into maybe some practical placings like setting up a place essential BDSM king placing and and get people But I think there's so much that we talked about that surely Our listeners can reevaluate the types of play that they do with their partners to focus on those senses Because maybe you've got away from it you get into a pattern and then you're just like especially if you've been married for a while or in a long-term Relationship and then you kind of just go for what works or you only have 10 minutes So let me just stick it in and we'll you know both nut and move on with our life But there is such an amount Of power that you can get from that central play and that touch and that connection and all of those sensations and exploring those senses That it's kind of like an investment into a better life Yeah, and I think you can take it to other things, you know for me drinking a glass of wine is a central experience taking a bubble bath It's not always about kinky play. I think that central awareness just leads to Really a you know a richer and more fulfilling life in general Taking notice of these things.
It's a lot more pleasant when you have control over them I agree Sunny once again an amazing time talking with you. I love so much of your brain I would like to explore more of your brain with our listeners if you're okay with that Yes, I'm happy to I would clap but that would probably make weird noises on my profile You can clap just you know clap, you know, I will say that works I'll throw a cheering effect in we do that at the end of the show because there's nobody to actually Okay, that's all right, sunny if people want to go and check out your literature once again You are an erotic author where would people go to find your literature? Yes, you can find the books on Amazon or you can check out my website sannyleymain.com I often send out for erotica if you're on the email list And I post updates about stuff that i've got going on like the i'm publishing some short stories in kinkley right now And all that information will be on my website fantastic. Well, we'll talk to you on the next time sunny.
Okay. I can't wait Old horse Ginger Come around and you say Ververty podcast listener segue. Oh, yeah Yeah, gen put put the mic closer to your mouth. Oh, yeah, that's good.
Now. Now say hi everybody Oh, that's so so true My bogey impersonation Better than I could ever do Oh my goodness, jan, how are you? I'm good life is busy. It is good and apparently your your neighbors Are having some sort of fiesta animal sacrifice thing.
I can't hear them, but you say that Is it happy conversations are just annoying? We don't know how to pick up a phone and talk to the other part of the oh no It's yelling and cursing conversation. Oh, that's wonderful. Well, you know, maybe some people are, you know, they're just passionate about their sports or something Oh, no, no, it's mother to daughter and it's very angry Hence we're looking to move teenage angst.
I love it. Oh, no, no, no, no, it's like grandma and adult daughter with her own kids kind of thing Yeah, let me just keep on correcting like Yeah, it's worse and worse. It's midlife crisis yelling. Oh, it's it's bad Which is one reason why we're moving I haven't talked to you and so much so I think this is the first time you've ever been on pervert podcast This would be correct.
Oh my goodness. I have known you for quite a million years a billion Years we've gone back in time. We've jumped timelines in alternate universes. We've had no that's Rick and Morty.
I'm sorry You and I was thinking legends, but okay, let's wow. Okay. See you went up a notch You went up a notch for me. So for our perverted podcast listeners, could you maybe tell a little bit about yourself?
Because you got a lot of stuff that you does. Well, do you want me to list everything or just not just the general? I mean, yes, by all means give us your war and peace fucking biography Yes, the general so I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and since about I'd say for the last eight nine years Um, I have taken that license into private practice within the scene specializing in kink power exchange non monogamy Etc, so etc, and if people want to because it says right here says plug Jen right here Well, I don't know if I said that plug. Well, that's what it says on my paper, Jen.
Of course it does I'm all plug Jen. So if people want to plug no, I want to plug. Oh, there has always been a sort of girl At least on my half. I don't know But I've always been hot for your plug and Jen.
I don't know if it's how I plug myself. Okay. Yeah, go ahead Um, so my website is a kink strength calm. That's one place where if you sign it for my newsletter That's a really easy like all in one place where you get one email a month that gives you all the things well fantastic Now that we have plugged you you were nice enough to fill out the questionnaire that we put out to the The second time because I screwed it up the first well the first time was great But first because the questionnaire for those of you that don't know in perverted podcast line The questionnaire is a thing that makes it easier for people to come on the show because it taught you talk about your experiences So it has all the little questions and we talk about it all the time on the show and we have people on and so Jen Because she's so efficient I'm gonna see honestly honestly I send her the questionnaire and it's like it's like a you know Have you ever had a scene that was hot and fun and and cool and you know, whatever and whatever and she literally just puts down?
Yes I'm like, okay It's a lot of information for me to work with and actually goes down to have you ever had an outing situation where you've been outed or you know Whatever and then she puts yes I'm okay. This is gonna be a good interview I'm much better talking than typing. I just have to say but honestly as soon as I hit said, I was like, you know It occurs to me that uh, maybe even though the boxes were small. It was an expectation to fill out some more information Well, the good news is is uh, all of our listeners can email us at pervert podcast at gmail.com And now know that you can put more than just uh, yes or no, it's never happened before so I think it's good to address Oh good.
Oh good. I'm the first one to screw that up. That's awesome. You're a pioneer Jen I am you're a trendsetter and a trailblazer and that's why I want to plug you So here we go.
So let's start with the because this is funny because it's dynamically a different angle on outing Somebody so why don't you go ahead and tell us that story first? Oh the outing bit. Um, okay, so I started teaching a BDSM 101 class series every monday night and I did that for about eight and a half years I just recently stopped with the idea of filming the classes and getting them up online because I needed more time to do a couple of other projects that have expanded um, and so eight and a half years ago or so I started the series and I was Getting ready to do my very first class ever And looking back it was pretty funny because you know eight years later I show up in regular like Clothes that I would normally wear for like a therapy session, right? Um, looking back I was like, okay, I'm gonna teach the speediest on one-on-one class.
I'm gonna like curl my hair and wear a corset Like all the thing. I think I went to a couple of those and I was like, oh fuck this like this too much work Oh, so there I am very first class. So of course, you know, I'm nervous. I'm you know getting ready for this thing at the time I think I was teaching from the stage, which is ridiculous to me now um, and so I'm standing in front of the stage just kind of waiting for people to come in my very first class and In walks this man.
I'm not gonna use any real names, but in walks this man and I'm like God, he looks familiar. He really looks familiar and it finally because my Dory brain, right? My memory is is for shit So I'm sitting there and I'm figuring it out and it dawns on me But this man is the older brother of one of my Close friends from high school who I'd lost touch with over the years Okay And I knew him in high school because like when all of us friends went we would go to his house And so the brother would be there they like we all did prom together and the brother was like served us like to make our experience fun Right that kind of stuff, right? So it was almost like, you know, a family friend.
I felt like I was um So she finally dawned on me and I was like, oh shit No clue that and you know that he was anything into this kind of stuff I just I walked up to him and I think it was after the class was over maybe or maybe before I don't remember that piece But I just walked up to him and and I said, do you buy any chance have a brother named? And he was like, uh, yeah Totally shocked. I was like, oh, I'm Jen which he would know me as Jenny. Nobody else is allowed to call me that by the way Just there are there are certain people grandfathered into that who I knew in high school Anyway, so I said, yeah, because I realized that how I looked at that time Versus how I looked in high school.
I dyed my hair red, which is still the same color to this day Sure my hair was curly which naturally it's the straightest thing about me sure and He probably wearing a corset right like the whole nine yards. So I tell him who I am. He's like, oh my god You could have got away with it even oh But I was like I was so shocked and I was like I was happy to see him too because I had a lot like I mentioned I had lost contact with his brother who had been my friend. It was a misunderstanding kind of thing Um, and uh, so yeah, we were both just kind of like well, okay, then, you know, we're both obviously.
I'm a fucking teacher, right? Yeah, that's the angle like there's no escape from that There's no both you can't like be like, well, you know, I just graduated mary tanser and uh, I have clients Yeah, I'm here with my friend who dragged me. I am here. I have to do research hook.
God. Can you believe where you wind up as a therapist? There's no mother you're the teacher Is no escape for Jen exactly exactly so we kind of chuckled and uh, you know exchanged bet handles and Uh, you know, he he was surprised I'd lost touch with his brother and so he said hey like I think he'd like if you know He reached out and so I did and we're now back like no time has has left uh, no time was, you know missed Um, and yeah, it's I still see him to the state now that I'm reconnected with his brother Um, you know, I'll occasionally see, you know him and his wife and stuff at family That is fantastic now that this is a wonderful happy ha ha ha You know it all worked out for the best ending and that's wonderful because you are you know pretty much out And you are in the community and you are a known teacher of of these things So that's wonderful that you can meet that and have the ha ha moment But obviously for some people that would be a potentially devastating experience And oh absolutely and so if like how would you prepare somebody if you were going to talk to a new person because this is the angle I wanted to go is being prepared for that kind of Situation because it does happen and it happens pretty frequently actually If you've been in the lifestyle for more than a second then you know you have probably bumped into somebody you knew at some point Because you know 11 percent of people are kinky or curious or you know, whatever the statistic is it's definitely more than one or two And the rest of them just haven't figured out yet. That's exactly it.
Just changed That's why I hit the term BDSM because it's like if you take that term out of it and you just say everyone's like, oh, yeah Well, of course a little airplane is scratching who doesn't like that? You're all kinky. So if somebody was new And they were terrified of this. How would you tell them to prepare?
I mean the first thing I say is look the other person's there too, right? So, you know to keep that in mind It's not like you've been put in a spotlight and they're you know at home watching the show and they realize that you're like they're there too You know, yeah, like you're both in the same so I would say you know on the one hand like I've seen situations where Most of the time people depending on what the relationship is out in the main you know mainstream worlds I've seen situations where it's kind of like oh my god This is fantastic and they like you know just go full throttle and introduce to their friends and it's this great, you know thing Worst case I'd say is you know saying okay, so like I've seen you you've seen me. Let's just not talk about this outside this room That'd be great. Thanks.
Bye, you know, um, you know, there's there's such a huge expectation I guess within the community to not out people and when people do start outing someone Like not if there's been some illegal activity, but like just to be a shitty person Or you know to be you know vindictive or whatever that is hugely frowned upon and that person who's done the outing is likely to You know get the pitch work so to speak And so you know I just try to kind of put that perspective for people that you know I really don't see that worst case very often. It's usually the opposite and honestly It's because both of you are in the same place. So what are they gonna say right? There is the the situation where and once again, I like playing devil's advocate and going to worst case scenario because I think people should Have that conversation with themselves to be risk to be more risk aware.
Well, yes. Yeah, I mean their own your own risk profile is important Right, um, you know if your job is dependent, you know or could be In crossfire because of this, uh, you know or family or whatever I am very lucky in that I can be out. Um, you know the only People in my life, um who I'm not 100 percent out to of course are my children. Um, but there's even a little bit of oops outing there, but we'll get to that Next segment But um But I know that I'm lucky in that my parents everybody that you know everybody kind of knows all the things Um, but you know for other people if job or family or things like that or are you know on the wire You do have to decide like what do you need to do what you need to put into place to feel safe, you know, absolutely I mean people can wear a mask.
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean now everyone wears a mask, um because But in a sense a lot of people I think feel comfortable that are worried about being outed They're like, well, I'm just trying to be safe, you know, covid So but I remember on a number of occasions There were certain people that came into the dungeon that they wore like an opera mask kind of thing And and that is absolutely acceptable if you're going to go in public and you know that you have something to lose There is no shame in protecting yourself. Oh for sure There is absolutely no shame and even if it comes to the point and I've had people that came in and And all of a sudden saw someone they knew and they said i'm gonna lose my fucking job and they were gone And they kept it They went back to online where they have a fake avatar and no one can see who they are So they were still able to get the education from online and be in the groups and have some sort of a community But they just didn't want to risk being outed in public because like you said most of the time it's actually pretty like well You're here. I'm here. Okay.
Let's just shut up about it But there are those times where you can feel like now that person has one up on me Because I have more to lose than they do and that's right That's not a fun way to explore your sexuality So I think it's so I think it's a great story And a good time to touch on that that whatever just like you said whatever your limit meter is that is okay for you You have to protect yourself. Absolutely. Yeah So now let's go on to some stuff here that you want to talk about I got my notes here. Oh, no, I don't so okay.
Well, that's good You had talked about a play scene with somebody that I also know fairly well who is a kind of a Big educator long-term legendary player person I said I wasn't gonna name any names. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I didn't know if you had got permit I mean they're they're they're a public speaker, but still once again if we don't ask it's better to just just say you know, Fred They're all friends.
You and Fred with tits tits Fred That's the new and the next time you talk to that person go hey We talked about you on the podcast, but don't worry. We just referred to you as tits Fred That's a great one because that's I'm sure they'll they will take that name onto themselves. Okay. Never thought hey It's all about transitions, but anyway, this was you were actually a pro switch for a while.
Yes Okay. Now. Can you explain a little bit about that? Yeah, so a couple years after being sort of in the scene going to classes learning dating blah blah blah It's actually a funny story to tell you about this because I forgot I had a friend who said hey I want to go and apply to be a pro will you come with me because I'm nervous like sure because I'm a nice friend And so we both went in And I was like, you know, all right, you know, I'll just I'll just apply whatever I went into the room with her at the same time And we both applied essentially And we were both offered to come back and start so I went in for my first day I was like, okay, you know, fuck I guess this was meant to be so and this was actually starting as a pro sub I wouldn't switch yet.
So I went in and She never fucking showed up So yeah, so that happened so I stumbled into being a pro for about a year and a half Started like I said as a pro sub and then was like, you know, I have more opportunity to Get more clients if I'm a pro switch. Um So let's do that and fortunately from day one I had gone to classes even though I identified as an s type learning the top side So I actually went into this already having a bunch of topping skills And so it was easy for me to sort of transition to being a pro switch And it was about a year and a half and then once I decided to Reopen my private practice and teaching then I transitioned over and stopped doing the pro work That is a that is wonderful and we've talked about pro doming and and on the show before and and how The benefit obviously of that for the client is if they're not either have the time to commit to Cultivating a relationship with somebody, you know, be or they're in school or whatever their life is so busy They don't you know, they just want the experience and they want somebody who actually knows what they're doing And then they don't so there's a lot of benefits to that Um, now that of course I just to go back to the to the stuff this wasn't this I don't know if it was or not I'm assuming because I know the place that they don't allow sexual contact pretty much Yeah, no, yeah, so this was this was just when when you were performing these things It was it was a you know a lot of impact play and different role plays and things like that Exactly. Okay. Yeah, very good.
And once again, I'm a big supporter of that Of course your career lasted a lot longer than my pro career And I'm just saying that because you you're a little bit, uh, I mean just a titch hotter than me I mean my boobs are better. So not not for long. Not I've improved. I have definitely Oh, okay You know with age with age and a little breast pumping I think a couple more years and I'm gonna catch up to you And then we're just gonna whack them together.
That is an awful awful visual that is literally Sometimes you just gotta go Just uh, do you have a waste paper basket next to you or something? You can just there's a box Just hurl and let's get back to it. Yeah, I have no idea what I was talking about my pro-tomics experience So you were doing a double scene where you and another pro were uh, were you co-botoming or was one of you topping in the other bottoming or Where was the client in all this or did they just watch? Yeah, there was a client.
Yeah, no, um I'll set the scene. So this was a client. So, uh the other the pro-dom was Hired as a pro-dom and I was hired as a pro switch. Okay And the funny thing about this session was that pretty much we both ended up switching because of the role play involved Um the client that we had their main fetish their main kink was role play So the sessions because we did multiple of these with the same client throughout our time working together and they would last usually Five six hours.
Wow. Yeah. Yeah, there were breaks involved. You know Um This but it was very much about the role play aspect.
Um And the scenario for this session in particular was that all three of us were bank robbers working together But after the robbery one at a time we all three turned on each other to get the money. Yes This is like real shit. This is real. This is good.
Go. Go. Okay. I'll add on backwards.
No. No. Yeah. Yeah, it's good.
Yeah, stories with Jen So I there was a lot to this session obviously, uh, which I don't even remember like the entire Five six hours, but there was one particular part of the session that is forever in my brain Um because at the time, you know, I again pro switch only in the scene. Let's say by then Four years maybe the pro dom is somebody like you mentioned who very well known very well respected like I was like bow down to you Right and at one point during the session Myself and the client it was our turn to turn on her right and so this part of it was meant for him To saran wrap her to the bench that she'd fallen asleep on I got I love this shit. That's great Now the funny part about this is that I knew that you would need to wrap the saran wrap a lot to actually use it to Bind yes, right. She was also at least a couple layers.
She's not a woman. She yeah, she's strong as fucker. You kidding me like I knew I was like no, we got to wrap that shit tight Um, but he he didn't listen and he wrapped not enough. Uh, let's just say that Um, and so as she's and you have to remember it was scripted to a point Right, so we knew the basics, but a lot of it was just kind of going with it and and freeform So, uh, she starts getting out of this rounder, which I knew would happen.
Um, so I jump on top of her Over down which keep in mind. Okay, think about like, I don't know how to describe the nerves Going through me having to really just stay in the role because on the inside i'm going oh my fucking god I am pinning so and so this is insane Right, I only know i'm safe because it's part of the session Right, so I jump on top of her and trying to hold her down So she's you know acting like she's struggling because she's clearly stronger than I am Exactly like she's struggling and all of a sudden spits directly up into my face And I was like dirty I literally I actually had to pause for a second because two things happened simultaneously in my brain On the one hand my brain went holy shit somebody just spit in my face. This is not something i'm into okay On the other hand this particular person who I like fucking worshiped to spit in my fucking face I literally had a you had another liquid that spit back at her, but it wasn't from your mouth No, no, no, but I did pause for a second and have to gain my composure for a minute Um, and then I pretty much made sure that she quote unquote, you know wrestled me off and got away Um Oh my god. I think right after that was actually a scheduled time for us to take a break Um, so we had a really good laugh about it.
Um, and you know she was telling the client like yeah, you should have listened to her You should have wrapped The same a first serenn ramping. Oh man. Yeah, so you know I have a lot of stories from working with her Particularly with this with this specific client, but that was one that will always stand out for her And the thing is is we both know the person we're talking about and i'm like, yeah Yeah, there's nothing nothing's like yeah dirty pool. She was she will make work what needs to make work Yep, yeah, and then of course it being hot and you're like, you know, so we're taking this break Uh, you know Fred tits and I just could you help me in the other room?
Maybe just oh no just a thing. I would not be professional Just a professional Break Well, it's like we would take like literally five minute breaks to drink some water and just check in if we had to but that was it It wasn't long breaks. Whatever. So we go five six hours plug Jen Jen Sorry.
Yeah, that is a magnificent story And so much fun and and jan it was absolutely fun to talk to you and and i'm surely hoping you had a good time in that you'd be willing To come back and maybe we could get into some other topics that you talk about in your classes and stuff Once again, if anyone wants to get a hold of you, where do they go? A kink shrink.com is my website and you can sign it for my not everything is on my website But if you sign up for the newsletter, you will get everything And including the link to our youtube channel, which is myself and my cinise of eden, which is case for kinky jt Fantastic. Jan always it's been a long time. It really has been and uh, it'd be great to hang out with you At sometime in the future when all this crazy crazy gets a little stabilized, but we love you I get out of this apartment.
Jesus You never loved me while you never gave me a reason to you weren't good enough You're like, I am a marriage and family crisis counselor and if you guys want to throw down a fat hunty All no, I want nothing to do with that. So you can't get Come on, Jen fat hunty, you know, I would charge extra You're all because I got to put in ear plugs for this shit. Oh god. Yeah, she's great talking to you too.
Can't wait to talk to you again. Love you What am I gonna call you? I don't know. We're not related.
That was weird. I'm all love you. Don't call me Fred tits. Okay, like I'm not No, no, no, you're different.
You're gintets. You are your gintets Oh, I'm sorry. We should end the second now. Bye.
All right. Bye Me ending the show again by myself because I'm an idiot. I forgot to do it with sunny That is the end of show 336. I am glad we made it through this show together Was a hard show, but we made it through some good stuff great conversations Thank you so much to sunny and gen and of course Thank you so much to kathy for speaking to us and letting us know where you are at We love you so very much If you would like to be a sponsor of perverted podcast and join the magical upper epsilon Of patreon supporters, please go to patreon.com slash perverted podcast.
Give us five bucks if you give a fuck We're just gonna keep moving forward and doing shows get ourselves reorganized here and try to give you the best show we can possibly do We love you and hope to see you next week on show 337 I am so over you It only took half the time that I expected to do you are done You're no longer mine I was in love with you Everyone said that my head wasn't properly screwed. No, you're done I would cry naked for hours holding your picture your picture your picture Wondering if there was ever a time that you love me or were you just faking I thought my ship had come I climbed aboard in the storm who'd have guessed this ship would get some you are done You're no longer mine My worst friend I let it choose it shows you and now i'm Longer than I like I would prefer just to die with your your picture your picture Myself and my soul and my nose you left and at the heart you were breaking I am so over you you'll be forgotten soon. No more distress. I confess my dear I doubt you'll be missed you are done You're no longer mine Remember we're done Remember we're done You are done