344: Stop Being a Crumbudgeon and Start Playing at Work with Kelsey Kates

It was such a treat to sit down with my friend Kelsey Kates and really geek out over a topic that we often leave at the playground: play.  I've felt that slow boil in my own career—trading my personality for steel-toed boots and a suit just to fit the corporate mold until I didn't even recognize myself in the mirror. Kelsey is here to remind us that we don't have to lose our joy to be high-performers. She brings this incredible blend of Google leadership experience and MIT neuroscience to show us that playfulness isn't about being childish; it's about a state of being that lowers our defenses and actually makes us better at our jobs. Key Themes from the Conversation The Difference Between Childish and Childlike: Kelsey clarifies that professional playfulness isn't about lacking impulse control, but about maintaining the neuro-flexibility to pivot and experiment in low-stakes environments. "We're not asking you to be childish... but inviting you to be childlike. That ability to shift and modify behaviors in that moment—that neuro-flexibility actually allows me to extrapolate that into other contexts." Play as a Signal for Psychological Safety: Incorporating humor or lightheartedness as a leader signals to your team that the environment is safe, reducing the biological stress response that serious corporate communication often triggers. "If I can signal with playfulness... I am reducing the power dynamic to say we are equals, we are in this together. I'm building rapport and wanting others to feel seen." The Neuroscience of Engagement: Play triggers dopamine, which isn't just a feel-good chemical; it actually aids in memory retention, focus, and deeper engagement with the subject matter. "In your memory, play is engendering deeper levels of focus and engagement and retention. There is neurochemistry that is happening." Authenticity and Leadership Credibility: Contrary to the fear that playing makes a leader look weak, research shows that leaders who embrace playfulness are actually viewed as more authentic and trustworthy by their teams. "When a leader shows up playfully, they are seen as more authentic, more trustworthy, because they are choosing to do it in a place where it's not necessarily looked at as a positive performance trait." Actionable Takeaway Start your meetings with a Purposeful Primer. Before diving into the agenda, spend the first three minutes on a low-stakes, high-connection prompt—like sharing a song from a personal pump-up playlist or discussing something you tend to over-analyze. Getting everyone's voice in the room within the first three minutes significantly increases their likelihood of staying engaged and collaborative for the rest of the meeting. Check out the extra resources Kelsey kindly shared to add play to your leadership tool kit. Play: How it Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination, and Invigorates the Soul by Stuart Brown: This is essentially the "Play Bible." It's a beautiful look at why we are biologically wired to play at every age. Brown, S. L., & Vaughan, C. C. (2009). Play: How it shapes the brain, opens the imagination, and invigorates the soul. Avery. Humor, Seriously by Jennifer Aaker and Naomi Bagdonas: One of my absolute favourites.  Aaker, J., & Bagdonas, N. (2021). Humor, seriously: Why humour is a secret weapon in business and life (and how anyone can harness it. Trust us). Currency. Huberman Lab: The Science & Power of Play: I know you already listened to this, so more for the show notes.  Huberman, A. (Host). (2022, February 14). Using play to rewire & improve your brain [Audio podcast episode]. In the Huberman Lab. Scicomm Media.  Understanding the social benefits for playful employees in the workplace - building trust and authenticity Li Guo, Wenqi Liu, René T. Proyer, Suosuo Jia & Ying Wang September 2025.