35. How One Decision Changed Travel Safety For Every Family With Steve Okun

The Unchecked Leader: Why High-Quality Decisions Require Checks, Balances, and Empathy (w/ Steven “Steve” Okun)When stakes are high, one brain isn’t enough. In this episode of Decisions That Count, neuroscientist Dr. Shawn Watson and Biotech CMO Michelle O’Brien sit down with Steven “Steve” Okun—ranked #2 on LinkedIn for Geopolitics & International Relations in Singapore (Favikon, July 2025)—to unpack why the best leaders design decision systems: collaboration, diverse input, and real accountability. We dig into decision fatigue, the 8 p.m. mistake window, hyper-partisanship, and how geopolitics and poly-crisis realities collide with business strategy and responsible investing.What you’ll learn (fast)Unchecked leaders are disadvantaged: Why “who’s around the table” predicts decision quality.Decision fatigue in the wild: Why ~“80% of mistakes happen after 8 p.m.” and how to build cognitive guardrails.Science + Soul in practice: Balancing risk, safety, economics, and empathy to avoid brittle choices.From policy to P&L: Turning geopolitics into bottom-line strategy (revenue up, risk down).Operating in a poly-crisis: Second- and third-order effects leaders miss—and how to see around corners.Chapters00:00 Introduction03:03 The Weight of Regulatory Decisions05:59 Balancing Safety and Economic Factors09:03 Decision-Making in Government11:59 Differences in Administration Decision-Making14:47 The Impact of Political Appointments17:59 Decision Fatigue in Politics21:07 The Erosion of Bipartisanship22:05 Hyper-Partisanship and Its Consequences24:07 Decision-Making in Politics and Business26:24 Civil Unrest: A Historical Perspective29:05 Economic Factors and Civil Unrest30:20 The Power of Decision-Making32:32 Checks and Balances in Governance33:51 Geopolitical Implications of Trade Wars36:35 Navigating the Polycrisis39:10 Optimism Amidst ChallengesGuest — Steven “Steve” OkunSenior Advisor (BSR, Global Private Capital Association, Kroll). Former Clinton Administration official; veteran of multiple presidential campaigns. Regular global media analyst on US politics, responsible investing, and geopolitics in the Trump 2.0 era.LinkedIn: https://sg.linkedin.com/in/stevenokunKey takeaways for leaders & operatorsMake “we” decisions: Curate the right mix of expertise in the room before you pick a path.Time your calls: Defer complex calls past the fatigue line; build “sleep-on-it” defaults.Price the trade-offs: Pair scientific reasoning with human impact—that’s resilience.Tie it to money: Translate geopolitical risk into revenue protection and cost mitigation.See the system: Map second/third-order effects—that’s where surprises hide.About the showDecisions That Count—where The Science & The Soul meet. Dr. Shawn breaks down the neuroscience of decision-making, cognitive overload, and brain optimization; Michelle brings the real-world lens—leadership, athletics, parenting, and performance—so you can act with clarity and conviction.Listen & followYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DecisionsThatCountApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decisions-that-count/id1796794128Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0ORNyRJW3k2RNSp41sNUD0Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/DecisionsThatCountTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@decisionsthatcountLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/decisions-that-count-podcast/🎧 Listen & Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📱 Follow us on Social Media:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠