405 The Enduring Power of Positioning with Laura Ries (Part 1)

On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we sit down with marketing royalty Laura Ries, the daughter of Al Ries and Chairwoman of RIES, to unpack what makes for truly powerful brand building. The discussion, sparked by American Eagle’s controversial Sydney Sweeney campaign, offers a masterclass in cutting through the noise and making brands that dominate for decades, not just news cycles. In a world obsessed with fleeting attention spans, viral TikToks, and celebrity partnerships, the rules for building a lasting brand have never been more confusing, or more misunderstood. When “attention” has become the trending currency, too many marketers forget the fundamental principles that separate overnight sensations from category-defining legends. You’re listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let’s go. Chasing Attention Versus Owning a Strategic Position Laura Ries doesn’t mince words. Right from the start, she asks, “Are we just going out for attention’s sake?” In the American Eagle campaign, the retailer had Sydney Sweeney, a star adored by a young demographic. front and center with the tagline “Sydney Sweeney has great jeans.” The resulting hullabaloo proved attention-grabbing, but Laura and Christopher quickly zero in on the flaw: it was a win for Sweeney’s personal brand, maybe the category of jeans, but not for American Eagle. Compare this to the iconic Brooke Shields for Calvin Klein moment, seared into pop culture by its taboo-breaking line: “Nothing comes between me and my Calvins.” Everyone still remembers it. And Shields herself, now in her 50s and 60s, gets asked about it to this day. Why did it stick when so many celebrity-driven campaigns fade fast? Laura argues the difference is clear: Calvin Klein tied a provocative moment to a real, ownable positioning idea. It wasn’t just attention; it was differentiation, and it transformed the brand. The Leader, the Challenger, and the Power of Contrasts Christopher then adds, “The category king of jeans is Levi Strauss”. If you’re not the leader, you can’t just market the category; you must establish a well-defined, opposite position. Calvin Klein’s campaign worked because it created a contrast in the market: there’s an implied competitor, a reason to choose Calvin’s over everything else. American Eagle, on the other hand, failed to anchor its campaign in any clear difference or strategic enemy. Christopher asks, “If you’re American Eagle, what the fuck are you doing?” To this, they both agree: at the very least, American Eagle, given its patriotic name, should have leaned into American-made authenticity rather than a generic celebrity endorsement disconnected from any unique brand promise. Category Design: The True Differentiator Brands like Dude Wipes and Liquid Death exemplify the playbook for building new categories, and thus, legendary brands. Dude Wipes didn’t invent wipes, just as Liquid Death didn’t invent water. But they staked out a radically different, memorable position: “Dude” wipes for men, and canned water that resembles a beer or energy drink and brands itself as death to plastics. This isn’t attention for attention’s sake; it’s strategic, memorable, and deeply anchored to a big idea: a core enemy, a new experience, a bold promise. To hear more from Laura Ries and her thoughts on why virality isn’t enough to build a legendary brand, download and listen to this episode. Bio Laura Ries is a leading marketing strategist, best-selling author, and global keynote speaker. She is the co-author of several influential books on branding, including The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding and The Fall of Advertising & the Rise of PR written with her late father and legendary positioning pioneer, Al Ries. Her new book The Strategic Enemy: How to Build & Position a Brand Worth Fighting For will be published in September 2025 by Wiley. As chairwoman of RIES, the consulting firm she founded with Al, Laura has advised Fortune 500 companies and startups alike on building powerful, enduring brands. Her expertise lies in positioning, brand focus, and creating category dominance in competitive markets. Links Connect with Laura Ries! Website | LinkedIn | X (Formerly Twitter) We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!