#43 | Rand Fishkin | Designing a Business (and content) for Meaningful Engagement

This week, John is joined by Rand Fishkin––one of the true OGs when it comes to B2B content marketing. Rand is the founder and former CEO of Moz and the current founder and CEO of SparkToro. He's also the author of Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World. Discussed in this episode: SparkToro's three-year retrospective The evolution of Rand's marketing approach involved a shift from less strategic and more experimental tactics to a focus on scalability.Balancing scalability and personalization is a key consideration in marketing, with scalable tactics often prioritized for growth.The flywheel mentality in marketing involves investing in tactics that improve over time and deliver better results with each iteration.Working through the challenges of anonymity is crucial for content creators, and success often comes from persistence and stomach for low initial engagement.Standing out in crowded platforms requires finding channels where competition is low and investing in tactics that resonate with the target audience.Designing a business for meaningful engagement involves focusing on a smaller, engaged audience rather than striving for massive numbers.Traditional marketing attribution can be a boondoggle, and focusing on vanity metrics can lead to building a marketing flywheel devoid of competition. Emotionally engaging content leads to business growth.Zero-click content is valuable and can provide benefits without requiring a click.Creating shareable content involves promoting insights and interesting takeaways rather than focusing on clicks.Chapters:(00:00) - Introduction (01:28) - SparkToro's Three-Year Retrospective (06:43) - The Trade-Off Between Scalability and Personalization (08:36) - The Importance of Scalability in Marketing (09:05) - The Flywheel Mentality in Marketing (10:29) - Working Through the Challenges of Anonymity (11:24) - The Stomach to Work Through Anonymity (12:20) - Standing Out in Crowded Platforms (13:48) - Designing a Business for Meaningful Engagement (15:14) - The Chill Work Approach (20:56) - Traditional Marketing Attribution as a Boondoggle (26:09) - The Relationship Between Content and Business Growth (27:36) - Starting Point for Creating Content (29:02) - Criteria for Creating Content (30:28) - The Importance of Enjoying the Work (31:49) - The Concept of Zero-Click Content (33:44) - Creating Shareable Content (36:34) - The Impact of Zero-Click Searches (39:46) - The Future of Marketing: Zero-Click Content (44:03) - Favorite Mediums for Creating Content (45:51) - Approach to Researching for Content (47:14) - Rand's New Game Studio: Snackbar Studio ***This episode of Louder Than Words is brought to you by Riverside, my preferred tool for recording and editing podcasts. Right now, Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount.***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode, the promotional clips, and handling the overall production of Louder Than Words. Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount.