#5: Justice as the opposite of exclusion, with Daniëlle Hirsch

What is it like to work on environmental and human rights issues from both ends, so from both the Global South (or majority world) and the Global North? And not to work *for* but *with* global organisations that are seeking justice, pointing out that those in power have to be more inclusive? For these next two episodes we are switching to English, as Wouter Mulders is joined by DRIFT colleague Neha Mungekar. First, we are sitting down with Daniëlle Hirsch. She is the director of Both ENDS, a Netherlands-based environmental and human rights organization devoted to funding, knowledge-sharing and policy work within a large global network of civil society actors.If Dutch pension funds invest in a Ugandan oil pipeline that spells tragedy for local communities and a liveable planet, Both ENDS connects Ugandan experiences with Dutch conversations. And Daniëlle also speaks of campaigning with indigenous leader and environmental activist Berta Cáceres against Dutch development bank FMO’s activities in Honduras. Sadly, Berta was killed.And though it may not be what researchers like to hear, Daniëlle doesn’t define justice as such in her work. Instead, she is fiercely devoted to the process. Do we organize processes to share power? Are enough ‘powerless’ voices included to ensure suffering stops? And why does the Netherlands have such a specific ‘do-gooder’ self-image on the global stage?Handy links:Both ENDS website: https://www.bothends.org/en/Guardian photo journalism on Uganda’s East Africa Oil Pipeline: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/gallery/2023/feb/24/counting-the-cost-of-ugandas-east-africa-oil-pipeline Slain Honduran activist’s daughter seeks criminal probe (Al Jazeera): https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/7/18/slain-honduran-activists-daughter-seeks-criminal-probeFor more transition know-how and how-to, please go to https://drift.eur.nl    Thanks to: Audrey Wientjes for voice-over, Marius Kooij for editing, Igno Notermans for producing, Walvisnest for music, Lieven Heeremans for all sorts of advice and all our DRIFT colleagues for support and inspiration.