I have not been to Minnesota in probably 20 years. Branky. Yes. These guys survived the David Con era of Tiberuels basketball and live to tell about it's flagrant house.
Welcome in to flagren house, my Tiberuels lifestyle podcast. I am Phil Mackie. He is the sports dad, Judd Zulgad. You will hear in the coming days from our friends Kyle Teige from Jim Peterson and Michael Grady.
Now that's one of the two best series or seasons in Tiberuels history has come to an end. It's a time for reflection. It's a time for thinking about sort of how things came to an end and looking ahead to the offseason. And there's no better person than the sports dad to bring some perspective here with his five post mortem thoughts on this episode of flagren house.
How did you land on five by the way? Why not four or eight or one for every playoff game that they won? Well, that'd be a lot. The 11, right?
Yeah. Yeah. I can sell consolidated this down to five important things, many of which are important to the entire franchise, the business as well. I feel it's best to leave the basketball exes and all those for the experts Kyle, Jim P.
Grady for sure. Right. And so, you know, some kind of got done with this press conference on Friday, a day after the wolves lost. And I was just sort of going through his quotes and going through things.
And I mean, he said all of not surprisingly the right things. But I think there is now now that it's done. And I personally tried to avoid the controversy and the potential hot points because the platform was so much fun, right? Like, you don't want to be talking about some of the some of the very important things when your team is in a playoff run.
There's no sports. Well, it didn't stop. Didn't stop. Blend Taylor a few different times from putting out dumb press really during the same run.
But it was not going to rain on the parade of a conference finals run. Like that is, I mean, heck, forget the wolves just in this town. For our men's teams, that's awesome. But now that it's done, I've got five thoughts and and this also comes.
It's takes as well. It's the liberation. I would did some thinking, sat back on the couch over the past few days on the weekend, drank my coffee, just black drink, drink some other things. No, you know what?
No, no, no, as a blade, I've been very good. I drink a couple things this weekend. No, no, no, you know what? I just decompressed and I want to come out of the gate with something that I've given a lot of thought to because we've talked about it a ton.
But I don't know that I've been declarative yet and I feel it's time to be very declarative here. First thought, it's time for Glenn Taylor to step aside. Yeah, it's just time like we can go back and forth between, well, is Glenn going to pay? Is he going to pay the second apron tax?
And I'll get to that. All right. But he's 83. Doogie, who is close to Glenn has gone into chapter and verse about the fact that Glenn doesn't feel great these days.
He's not in great health. I mean, he's 83. You know, that's allowed. Um, but it's just time.
And here's among the reasons why I say that is this one because I think it's incredibly important. Now that the season is done, you're starting to see off the record quotes internally from people within the organization talking about we got to pick sides. It's a difficult situation. You see, Johnny Kay officially reported on the awkward hug attempt with a rod which confirmed as reported and heard here first on Flagren Howls, you and he made it.
Yeah. Well, I told doogie about it. But I, but I had heard from someone, I didn't see it happen, but I heard that this happened and I love that it's now making like the athletic. It's officially like a report from an unnamed source to your point in the athletic, but it's also like I saw coming here, bring it in.
Alex. It's good to see my old friend. Do what you're talking about. You're suing me.
Um, but I'm also seeing quotes, you know, from internal wolves executives about basically, I can't be on the record because we're not supposed to talk about things. This is very, this is a very unnecessary hardship. Um, and I believe that one way to derail what is right now, probably as good of a position as the wolves have ever been in is to have this type of strife, to have people trying to pick the right side, but not knowing which side they should pick. Um, and, and look, if, if Laurie and Arod indeed are telling the truth and they can afford the team and there's not going to be a problem there, it should be their team.
If they can't, Glenn needs to move on. Like no matter what, this is, it's run its course and Glenn, you know what? When you do step aside, you're going to be credited with the guy that saved the franchise. And I believe it was 94 because he did because he deserves way more people give him way more credit for the NBA wants a team in the top 15 market, but it does not deserve a statue for no, but at that point in time, it was very contentious and they were and they couldn't find a person to buy and he did good for him.
That was awesome, but it's now 2024. It's 30 years after the fact. And the fact now is it's time to move on. It's time to whatever your end game here is Glenn, you know what?
Do everybody a favor, take your vows, accept your applause and realize that you are what, you know, basically Glenn is a, for lack of a better term, he's a maw and paw old school owner type. He loves to sit courtside. He's not, he's a businessman of great success in the twin cities because he fit the model of, you know, professional sports, owners circa 2024. So thought number one, it's time to step aside.
It's time to quit with the lawsuit. It's time to quit with the should I or shouldn't I? It's been a good run. Move on.
There, I feel like there's times in life in sports where fear of the unknown is a valid fear and you should just take the known commodity behind door number one, where I let's say judge at a restaurant and it's kind of a dive bar, kind of a divey place, you know, we're all macadact with order oysters, perhaps, and other people would fight him on that ripped. And it's like, you walk into this place, you're like, oh, this place looks a little dirty and, you know, they've got burgers on the menu. You order a cheeseburger and fries and just play it safe. I don't need to know what's behind door number two.
I'll just stick with, I'll just, I'm not going to, I'm not going to test out the oysters, right? Yep. In this case, with the Timmerworlds ownership situation, I don't want the known commodity anymore. Glenn Taylor is the known commodity.
We know what that looks and feels like for 30 years. Thank you for, I guess, the team not moving to wherever they were moving in 1995. To New Orleans, appreciate you. There was like news reports that there was actually a clip going around from inside the NBA from that exact time period where Ernie Johnson with the pull head of hair is reporting on the Timmerworlds imminent move to New Orleans before Glenn Taylor said that so like thank you for that.
But it's been one series of follies and embarrassments and incompetent hires. Oh, I'm about to use a different F word. If you put another quarter in me, he's one of the worst owners in the history of the NBA, like in the modern history, the last 30 or 35 years, right? You got your Donald Sterling level of owners that was like a creep behind the scenes.
Glenn is not that. But like even just the stuff, if you believe it, which I do, where Alex and Mark came punching back after Glenn sent out the press release saying the team was no longer for sale and they start going on their media tour and they go on Dane's podcast with Kyle and they told the story about how they were going to go after Tim Conley and Glenn Taylor who barely knew who Tim Conley was if at all said, why would a guy like that after they explain who Tim Conley is? Why would a guy like that ever want to come to a place like this? That's small time thinking that has absolutely covered this organization going back 30 years, one mistake after another.
I know what that commodity is and I'm with you. I don't, I don't want it anymore. So even if there is some degree of risk with Alex and Mark taking over the franchise, maybe there's risk that in arena situation could go wrong and now they threaten to move the team. Maybe there's risk that they aren't going to be able to pay the second apron of luxury tax.
I don't know. I'm willing to take those risks because I don't, right, like I don't want Glenn to be the owner of this team anymore. I don't. So I'm willing to take on some risk behind door number two.
And what gets me is Glenn for like 10 years now was talking about a succession plan. Like he has gone down this path. Like he understands what he should do. So just do it.
Yeah. Like no one in your family wants this team. You're 83. You, your idea that you should find a succession plan is spot on.
See it through, dude. Just see it through. It's time. It's just time.
Yeah. So, OK, we agree on. Yeah. Well, I just thought I mean, I've been going back and forth on because yes, the unknown does exist.
But the more I think about it, it's just time that leads to thought to which the public might not like, but it's just plain and simply going to have to happen. And it's probably going to have to to happen in some way, shape or form with our health. It's time for a new building. The steam will not move if you build them a building.
The threat of a move is if you don't. And as much as I think I can definitively say it's time for Glenn to step aside, it's time for target center to be replaced. There is Alex and Mark Laurie, billionaire X. No one's going to move the team if they get a building.
And I'm not saying that there won't be private funds. But if you expect it to be completely privately funded, you're probably nuts. But at this point in time, after what we saw and to me, the commitment that it appears this team has to actually pursuing success and Phil, we said, in that building, it was electric. It was fun.
But for all of those playoff games, it's one of the worst buildings left. It's just time. So like, like, yes, Glenn move aside, but public here this, we're going to have to help. And I know that you can say, well, I don't want to help.
I don't want to help. Well, then you might lose this team. And at some point in time, Glenn is going to sell or God forbid he's going to pass. And at that point in time, whoever gets the team, if you don't agree to help them out and it could be downtown, Eagan, I don't know where, but if you don't agree to help them, this team will look to move.
And I can definitively say, just as the Metro Dome was a dump, target center is a modern day dump right now. It needs to be replaced. And you know what? Like, again, maybe Glenn is shielding the tap, maybe glens the hero, shielding taxpayers from having to pay for another structure.
But this might be way too inside baseball, but you know the area when you walk through the tunnel behind the basket and it's the area where players can, players actually kind of go in through the diagonal side, but like that area leads to the same hallway in the back. Yeah. And if you're in the Lexus club, you can kind of get around that way to the right, but then it curves around to the left and there's a roped off area where media and family and ownership and players and stuff can go right before that. There's a public restroom.
And I have a new stuff. Yes. So there's yeah. And other like other people.
I run into there too. You know, and he'll small talk. It's kind of funny. It's like anybody else, you know, there's a big thing out.
I like, but my point is that bathroom is a disaster. Like it is, I mean, literally like there's like yellow. And it's remote. It's a big building.
You can't fix the building. It's disgusting. And it's like acceptable that these, the high rollers who sit courtside and the ownership groups and stuff like that's kind of their bathroom. Just little things like that where what are we doing here?
This is a 35 year old outdated structure. It's it's tightly cramped just in terms of places for fans to hang out to. There's not space for anybody. Yeah.
So if yeah, if this franchise looks to take itself seriously and become a place, a destination for winning and now who's going to pay for it is the big question. And I have heard going back 12, 15 months. Yeah, part of the plan, Alex and Mark was to put together a group to buy the team, which they have apparently and also a group maybe separately to finance privately, a new arena and a development structure in and around Target Center. Are they going to be able to put together that entire group to finance it?
100% I mean, Minnesota United put together a 100% public privately finance stadium, all on field. So, but yeah, it's I agree. A new arena needs to happen at some point. I don't know that you're going to get the public support to pay a half billion dollars like you did for the Vikings 10 years ago, but it's got to happen.
But I think it's right to say this. If you want the team to say the reality is you have to be prepared to at least calling out part of the bill for land for like there's just a lot of things, but nobody it could be Glenn. It could be Mark and Alex. It could be anybody.
No one is going to stay long term in a building that you can't fix. They've tried. They shouldn't have tried the last one. I think they redid it again and more in the concourses in 2017.
It was a waste of time. They shouldn't have done it. It looks nicer on the outside, right? Like it's like glass and it does, but you're going to have to blow it up and build it.
Yeah. All right. Point number three, Tim Conley needs a raise. And now you might say, hold on there, sports bad.
I remember Tim Conley five year contract, eight million per season. That's very generous. And yes, it is. But Tim Conley has the proverbial hammer right now.
He's got an opt out two years in. He got the ability probably partially because of all of the moving parts that we're seeing now because Tim's not a dumb guy. He probably said, what happens if Glenda sides? He's not going to sell the team and he was told, OK, we'll create an opt out.
But the reality is it sounds like and this is him in a press conference, but he said all the right things about staying. But that being said, you can't tell me that he's not going to have somebody else or another team at least sniff around. Eight million is probably going to become need to become eight to 12 or I'm sorry, 10 to 12. Yeah.
Well, he phrased it interestingly though, because he said, did he say something like I hope or the plan is? Yeah. I hope to return. Yeah.
Yeah. And yeah, his stock man of all the Pobo's in the NBA, his stock is probably risen the most because he's the one that architected the majority of that nuggets championship team. Of course, he left before he got the ring and then he architects the team that beats the nuggets and gets to the Western Conference files. And this team is maybe one more move away or a tweak away from taking the next step.
So yeah, life is life is good if you're if you're Tim, now he did some of the concern has been does his family like in Minnesota, you know, you're moving to a place that's sort of foreign to you and your wife, your family. And he did say again in the postseason recap press conference that he feels like his family is starting to plant roots in Minnesota. Yeah, but you know, they've only been here for like two years. So a little more money would help those roots be integrated more into the ground.
Yeah, but this is also where Glenn needs to go because if he gets a raise, but it's still like Glenn, like trying to own the team and then you don't know he's going to want to opt out again and I don't blame him one bit. I'm sorry. It feels like Tim Conley is attached to Mark and Alex. Right.
Well, I mean, Phil, if you were asked to run a corporation, a sports team and Glenn and Glenn might be your boss, I don't think you're buying in long term there. Like it doesn't make any sense. It's again, where you need this team needs to be allowed to progress. Yeah.
And so if I'm Conley, if there is a resolution here, like if Glenn just said, you know what, I'm tired. Okay, guys, pay me a little bit more, but it's yours. I think Tim Conley probably signed the contract without opt outs consistently. The opt outs to me create an unnecessary question because I don't know the players care, but in fairness, it puts everyone else who is in the front office on pins and needles on a yearly basis.
And again, those I feel bad for those folks right now because they don't even know which side to buy into. And if you think back to Glenn's history as the owner of this franchise, any sort of wolves era that doesn't involve flip Saunders hand on the wheel and there was two different eras or Tim Conley's hand on the wheel has been mostly a train rack, right? Whenever they haven't had a flip Saunders hand on the wheel or a Tim Conley hand on the wheel. Now, now Gerson came in for a minute.
Gerson selected Anthony Edwards. Yeah. He made the D-Lo trade, which the D-Lo trade helped the wolves go from 20 something wins to 40 whatever. So Gerson made some nice tweaks, but ultimately behind the scenes, it was not working for him.
He was alienating people. The culture was going sideways. What do you mean? He did a good job?
What? What are you getting Anthony? I was the basketball stuff. Yeah.
Um, yes. Michael 1.0 with flip 1.0 went well and that was about it. So yeah, but what I mean, I don't want to see life after Tim Conley and Alex and Mark also not have if this, if dude is greatest things feel right now, the worst thing that could happen is if Mark, Alex and Tim Conley decide we're taking our hands off the wheel to go elsewhere or we're being frozen out of the organization. And now it's up to Glenn 83 year old Glenn and whoever he would look to replace Tim Conley, that's how this thing can go 180 degrees in the wrong direction.
Glenn stepping aside, building a new building and Tim Conley saying is stability. Everything else is instability and that's the wolves. Like if you want the wolves, if you want one word to describe this franchise's existence in a nutshell, it's instability. Yep.
No, those are three. Yeah, those are three like major, major pillars before we get to the final two thoughts here from the sports dad, Judd Zulgad. You want to talk about stability? Okay.
Eco fun is your stable force for summertime fun. It's your summertime fun headquarters scooters, I love cars. I love cars. I love the golf cart.
We should get you a golf cart and put some like spinner wheels on it. You can drive around St. Louis part, drive it to work. Be awesome.
What's the while pull up in the Hubbard parking lot? Toss the keys to someone to park this thing Bob. My name is not Bob and I don't. Okay, whatever.
But yeah, you can stop into Forest Lake or Burnsville to Metro locations. Ecofun motorsports.com ecofun motorsports.com. Okay. Number four.
Number four is this. The second apron cannot be an obstacle. Like we're going to talk about this a lot. Glenn's, uh, Glenn's threat basically was, well, Mark and Alex can't pay that and I can, which by the way, we've not seen Glenn.
I think Glenn has gone into the tax once or twice and but it's always the short term. We'll do it for now, but there's going to be, but we can't do it for long term. It's time to play with the big boys, Phil Mackie. It's time to get in the deep end of the dam pool.
And you know what? It's time to swim there. The second apron is $190 million and it's expensive. And you know what?
Again, if you're doing the first three things and the fourth thing has to follow, it's time to play with the guys that basically are the big players in this league, which is why a new arena is going to become incredibly important. Target center, if nothing else does not have the revenue streams. It just does not. But like we're talking about it again, like, well, if they go into the, could, could they do this for a year?
I'm sick of this. Okay. Do it for five years. I win a championship, quit threatening me with, well, we'll try it for one more year, but if it doesn't work, then we're going to have to, then we're going to have to clean house a little bit because we can't afford this.
And Edward's the marvelous player and he deserves a supporting cast. That is, that can help prop him up, not to playoff earths. The playoff run was fun. Okay.
But you know what, what happens? expectations rise and eventually playoff runs unfulfilled become frustrating and they should for sports fans. Yeah. Uh, I don't want to hear it.
Go into it, pay the freight. Everyone do your job, including the public helping out by being willing to invest in, in arena. Let's make this a world class franchise of the wills, like to say. Yeah.
I think I would say definitely pay the second apron luxury tax. If you think it is the right strategic move for the roster, if Tim kindly gets in a room with other smart people in the wolves organization and they decide, Hey, listen for us to get from here to here, we have to trade this person. Carl, let's say, and as part of that trade, we might not take on quite as much salary and by the nature of that move, we're going to be below. But it should be based in strategy for how to get to the next level, not cheapness, right?
Not for the youth, not, yeah. So next year, what's interesting is that, so according to Hoops type, the wolves already going into next year as constructed have the second most expensive roster in the entire league behind Phoenix and Phoenix is in a weird spot because they just got their asses swept out of the playoffs with one of the most expensive teams in the league, second apron luxury tax without a lot of moves. Like the amount of first round picks they gave up for Kevin Durant. It's not like they have a lot of moves that can, uh, you know, help them get another superstar player in the mix.
So it goes Phoenix. And again, they've been like championship contenders. They were in the flater to lead in the finals a few years ago, and they've been trying to just push the envelope. New ownership came in and then you got the Timmer wolves.
Then you have Boston is the third most expensive. They've been knocking on the door, pounding on the door, NBA finals, right? Keep the man together, bringing him, causing his then Denver who won a championship. So you're, you're getting this windfall of, I'm sure revenue coming in from a championship team.
Um, and then Golden State is also right in that mix and we've seen them coming off the tail end of a dynasty Lakers or in the mix. So it's like the wolves are now in terms of how much they're paying for their team. They're punching with some of the biggest markets, the most successful teams and or the teams that have been pounding on the door to win a championship for the last handful of years. What do they decide strategically?
Is it run it back? Is it? Hey, let's just take the experience that we gained, have a 22 year old turn 23 coming off in Olympic run in the summertime. Expect that Carl can be the number two to Anthony Edwards and there's a bunch of conversations we'll have about that, but I'm, I'm with you completely, though.
It needs to be based on strategy and it needs to be connellies. It can't be this. I always feel like these conversations with Glenn have been held over our head. Well, I'll do it this year, but then it's done because I can't, this is going to be a championship franchise.
Like you've got a championship player and I don't want you here. Like the world just need to become big time. Part of the reason why this whole thing has been in the last 20 years or so. So frustrating is how often it's disintegrated to a mom posh shop.
And I mean, at one point in time, Glenn did, did pay. I believe it was the 99 lockout occurred because of the Garnet contract. So we've been there before as well, but those are the type of investments that you have to make it can't nobody can walk in as far as I'm concerned or should walk into Conley's office with a piece of paper and lines drawn through salaries and names. And Conley did.
Yeah. He was, you know, part of his press conference was being told, Hey, you know, sometimes we're kind of at the mercy of what ownership will allow us to do. He also said that he does think Carl can be the second best player on a championship team. I don't know what he's supposed to say.
If he feels that way, then they're probably going to run it back, right? Cause why wouldn't you? You got the pieces in place? Yes.
If you don't feel that way, you're not going to cheapen his trade value by saying, you know, I don't actually think he can be the second best player on a championship team. Yeah. I think what I think what he said is very akin to back in the day, Spielman saying that Harvard and digs will not be traded. But Tim Conley didn't call Carl the linchpin like crazy did with Jefferson, right?
Well, like I think there's, I think there's code words of, Oh, hey, if you call me, I'll pick up or I'm not going to pick up. I think the way that Conley talked about Carl was, Hey, this guy, we still consider him to be a very valuable member of this franchise. But if you call me, I'll definitely pick up the book. Yeah.
And that brings us to number five. Number five, number five is a basketball one. And it is very, very simple. You need to add another score for Ant.
You've got to add in. Look, I saw a Jason Redrick in the prime press, a really good piece about the wolves offense and the transformation and where it needs to go importantly. And within that, he had a graph that read Chris Finch, wants to improve on his quote, move and face offense, which Finch basically was saying at his end of the season press or on Friday, he thinks can still work. And that might be entirely true.
But the reality is this, I think what we've seen is this team 100% lacks another guy who can take some of the scoring load off of Ant. Now, Carl can at times for sure, but I'm talking about a shooter. I'm talking about a guy. I'm talking about the type of guy that we were discussing at the trade deadline that the wolves should get and ultimately couldn't.
Yeah. So just as a basketball observation. And I don't know again, if you keep Carl, this is going to be a luxury text conversation or a or a second paper in conversation. I almost don't care about that.
I care about the fact that I think you need another guy that can, as your future likes to say, Patrick Brey's hates score the basketball. I agree. And it's so tough because regular season, Carl on paper is one of the top, what 15 to 20 scorers means and averages, even the last couple of years when his role has kind of changed, he's a 21, 22 points per game scorer in his career. He's at 23.
The problem is in the playoffs when teams are trying harder and defenses are locking down more and Scott and reports are focused specifically for two weeks on stopping your team. We're not just flying through different cities and it's game 41 on a back to back. Yeah, we look at some tape and let's roll the ball out against the hawks and see what happens. Right.
And this is like everyone in your organization is looking for ways to stop the opposing team night after night in the playoffs. And when the clamps are put on in that way, Carl's offense takes a dip in the playoffs and then the Edwards offense elevates in the playoffs in the three years he's been there. So my biggest concern with Carl and by the way, like if you can find a way to keep Carl on the team as an electric three point shooter, aside from this Dallas series, and as like a third scoring option, that's awesome. I don't know if mathematically and capwise and chipswise, you can make that happen.
But my biggest concern with Carl is in the regular season, he averages 23 points. In the playoffs, he averages 18 and a half. In the regular season, he shoots 52 and a half percent from the field. In the postseason, it's 46 percent.
And from three, he's a 40 percent career regular season three point shooter. In the playoffs, it's 35 percent. Every single offensive metric efficiency, counting numbers, dips for Carl in the playoffs. And I don't think we're talking about just like a small sample size, it'll adjust itself.
I think there are reasons why he is not able to get his offense when the screws tighten in the playoffs. You have to consider that moving. You can't just be like, well, let's just hope and cross our fingers that Carl becomes a better he's a worse offensive player in the playoffs. And I think there's a reason for that.
Yeah. Also, question, what do you make of the fact that when Carl was out from March 11th to April 11th with a torn meniscus that the world's offense actually spiked up to 8th best in the entire league? Because we talked about this at the time, spacing issues. I just, I think it's interesting.
And I admire, you know, Finch is known, despite the fact that the world's calling card was defense, Finch is known as a really good offensive coach. And I do think that he has confidence that he can maximize this thing. I just don't know that you have all of the right chips to do so. And you obviously have to build that around ants.
I mean, he's a one guy to build around. Yeah, I think, I mean, just to zoom out even like to 30,000 feet, if you decide the path to getting better to going from Western Conference Finals to championship includes a Carl Anthony talent's trade of some kind. I think you have to be cognizant of the things that you are giving up. Because I've been as hard on Carl as anyone, but like some people act like it would be addition by subtraction in some way.
And that's not the case, especially against Denver. They don't win that Denver series in seven games, if not for Carl's contributions as a huge body against Yogich. And Phoenix as a score. Phoenix.
Yep. Question. You know, he bodied up Kevin Durant, you know, time after time. So you're losing a massive body, a rebounder, a guy that can provide, he's not the best defender on the team, but he can provide resistance with his size against some of the key players in the Western Conference that you don't get from other players on your team, including Nas Reed.
And you're losing even at a, like, even with his reduced playoff field goal percentages, you're still losing one of the best shooters in the NBA and a guy that can get hot and hit a handful of threes. So if you decide to trade him, I don't think Nas steps in one for one, like Nas is a six man. He's a good player. We haven't seen 36 minutes night after night for a full season of Nas.
That's projection. But if you could wind up getting some size back, a backup point guard, or maybe like a ball handler and waiting to take over for Mike Conley, like there are some paths where maybe a trade would make you better, but you, but first and foremost, you'd have to be getting a bona fide secondary scorer that's better than Carl that can slot next to Anthony Edwards. Yes. Period.
Like you at minimum, that is the reason why you be trading Carl. Now, can you get that and not give up too much in rebounding and on defense and depth and all these other things? That's a question for $8 million, soon to be $12 million. Exactly.
In your building. Yep. So that's all I got. So great stuff from the sports dad, his perspective, his wisdom, helping us enter this off season.
It's been a fun year, man. Flagren howls just kind of took off and was at one point charting in the top seven among national basketball podcasts on Apple. A huge thanks to Kyle Taggy, our guys, Michael Gradian, Jim Peterson for being awesome contributors. And consider today's conversation the start of many fun speculative off season discussions here on flagren howls for Judd.
I'm Phil. This is a Timmerwolves lifestyle podcast.