Progressives over the past like 10 or 20 years have done an absolutely amazing job at reaching out to minority groups and disinfected groups and making them feel like they have a voice. They've done an equally horrible job at kind of on the prior dominant group, which is usually like white straight men. I think they've left them feeling like very disaffected. How effective do you think cancellation is at silencing people?
I saw that Sneko just got another strike on his YouTube channel, lost his TikTok account, lost his Twitter. And he seems to not really see it as a concern. Andrew Tate says that he's got even bigger since he left and then Steve will do it. Was it the NASDAQ announcement thing for Rumble as well?
Do you think that it's coped to say you get bigger when you're canceled or is it legit? It's huge, coke. I think canceling is really good at getting rid of people. It's not very good at getting rid of ideas though.
So you can get rid of the man, but you're probably not going to get rid of the underlying current of thought that elevated that to the position they were in before. And that's going to still be their wedding for another person to kind of like take the reins on it. So they set a type of rhetoric that creates an echo that other people can then fall into. Kind of, yeah.
Or like, have you ever heard of a concert called the Overton window? Yes. A lot of people don't know this. They don't understand this.
The Overton window is discovered. It's not created. Politicians are trying to find where people are and they can move them a little bit. But it's not like politicians say this is the Overton window.
This is how far right in love they are. It's really a big struggle for politicians trying to figure out like where are people and then where can I kind of like slide in myself so I'm popular there? So like for instance, Donald Trump didn't necessarily significantly move the Overton window in some direction. What three dimensions are doing, whatever.
But more he identified whether coincidentally or not that's a whole other conversation. He identified as a whole group of voters that felt a certain way about something and he was able to tap into that. When you've got people like Andrew Tate or Snake, they're getting really big. It's because there's a hunger for that type of thought.
It's not like these guys are creating like nobody had known about this until take him. It's that there are certain people that are hungry for that type of thought. So if you ban him, the banning is bad for that person. People will cope and say, oh, you can't cancel.
They got even bigger. Well, then why didn't they just delete all their socials before? Like there's a reason why people want to be on these platforms. But there's still going to be that underlying kind of thought and somebody's going to come by that's another red pillar or make tower or whatever and take the ransom.
I think you're right. I think based on what I've seen when you remove people from that ecosystem, the audience at best, the absolute best that you can hope for is it stays as big as it is now. But the discovery medium is these platforms that have millions and billions of users. Right?
If you're on YouTube, there is no more discoverability for you. If you're off Instagram and TikTok, how are people going to find you? You saw this with Alex Jones. Alex Jones has a country sized audience.
He got removed from social media, but you know that unless he creates an incredibly smart referral scheme, how many people going to discover his message? I mean, yeah, you're exactly right. Like it's such an annoying thing to argue with people because it's such a mess of couple of ways and betrays everything we know about how these platforms work. Like if I'm the platform and I'm buying talent, the reason I'm buying talent is kind of my platform is because I'm trying to bring their fan base over.
You know, I want to be on a platform where people are there, not because destiny is there, but because they're watching other people. If people are coming to a platform only for me, that means that platform doesn't have anything else left for me to grow from, you know? Like so, Rumble is definitely growing a ton off of Andrew Tate, but I don't think Andrew Tate is going to grow a ton off of Rumble. Yes, very interesting.
Well, there has to be a critical mass where Rumble could acquire so much talent that it might actually start to move the needle. For instance, Spotify's acquisition of Call of Daddy and Rogan changed what people listened on. Maybe there's an argument to be made that people are going to watch some video content and there may be a little bit more platform agnostic, but I would argue that the reason Spotify worked is most people already had it. Spotify was coming in with a huge amount of existing brand equity, and it's actually a genuinely better experience for listening to podcasts too.
So it's a superior product that already had equity coming in as opposed to Rumble who are kind of holding onto the coatt sales of these big creators that they bring over. So people doing snee-coatt type. Yeah, the books are still probably being written on how to do this effectively. Like nobody really knows 100% like how do I grow an alternative platform?
There's a reason why, I don't know this time I'm willing to bet that Twitter or Facebook, these platforms are probably 15 years old at this point, right? I know Facebook is at least that old Twitter is probably, I feel like I've seen tweets from 2008. So like these are old platforms and people have tried to start new platforms by a bunch of talent and it's still kind of false through. So yeah, it's very difficult to grow a new platform completely organically, unless you're literally offering like the whole package.
Like you said, it's got to be a product that's going on its own that is like, why would I use this over something else? It's got to have unique talent there that you can't find in other places. It's got to have some kind of discoverability or hook in areas on other parts of the internet that people are using. There's a lot that has to go right.
And man, the barrier to entry for stuff like that is probably getting higher and higher and higher every day, like pharmaceutical levels in terms of how much money you have to spend to get people over on these platforms. Yeah, well I mean TikTok, perfect example, right? I thought we'd reached saturation for the number of different channels that people would have. Because this other stuff, I know you hear about people that use Gabb or Yik Yak.
You remember Yik Yak? Do you ever see that? I don't think I did know. So it was location based announcement, kind of like Twitter, but it was all anonymous.
So you couldn't see who did it. And it was all location based. So you could basically spread rumors about people that it was a gossop goal, but on a thread and it was completely location based. So you would only see the stuff that was around you.
Oh, I'm not going to, I'm not going to remember this, but I know what you're talking about. There was another app called like Whisper or something. It wasn't called that, but it was similar. Like basically when you open the app, it's like 20 things, but it's all said by people like, Erin, you don't know who it is, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My point being that when I saw those, I was like, oh yeah, well, this will be a cool thing for maybe a subculture or maybe it'll try to get off the ground but probably fail. TikTok actually managed to get into the market and hold on to it because it had a superior product to everything else that was online without that. And I'm not convinced that Rumble quite has that yet.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's going to be companies that I'm sure people are going to be doing case studies on how they mess something up because we're on Skype right now, right? Yes.
What a letdown that somehow Zoom was able to come out of nowhere and become a massive company. Whoever was the product manager at Sky Drop the one that almost ended up in the company in history. Or what if you were the person that ran Vine and you're like, okay, well, obviously, short form content like this doesn't work on the internet mobile app. So it's time to leave.
And now like 10 years later, you've got like TikTok and it's like, oh my god, this is like a guy, the proverbial like 10,000 Bitcoin holder on an old hard drive. They got through somewhere. It's like, mine was, you mess it up somehow. It's like, yeah.
So, you know, I'm sure that like, I bet the ultimate answer to how I was gone and I could come down and figure out everything. I bet that there's like 40% is like all of this, like you got to have the right talent, the right allocation of resources, the right product, blah, blah, blah. And I'm willing to bet like 50, 60% can just be like right place, right time. Like a lot of it might just be down to luck.
Like a certain deal getting signed, a certain thing going viral on the internet that slowly starts to propagate more uses to your platform, etc. Like there's so many variables when it comes to internet stuff. I think you're right. And yeah, it'll be interesting, man.
It'll be interesting to see. Because like I said, there has to be a critical mass. Let's say that every YouTuber with over 300k subs moved to rumble exclusively. People would start watching that now.
Yes, YouTube would other creators would come through and fill up some of that watch time. But the question about how much do you need in order to tip the balance? We've seen this with some of the guys who moved from Twitch to YouTube gaming. That's a big sort of competition that's going on at the moment.
Twitch keeps on seeming to shoot itself in the foot and the face and the knee and everything else at the moment. Yeah, I agree. The, I mean, take everything I see the green and salt. But the one business model that I want to see try that hasn't been done yet.
I feel like people are really keen to buy talent and then they just do that. They don't engage with the talent well. Like I feel like if I ran another platform, I would want to buy talent that still associates with a lot of people on the other platform. One, that's important.
And the second thing is I want to do something with them that's unique that they didn't do before. So that people would be motivated to go and watch. Right? Like if somebody was going to buy me his talent for a platform, you could stick me somewhere else on the stream.
But like, are people going to watch it? Like instead of YouTube videos, like are they really care that much? But if you were to buy me his talent and then put me on your platform and you did like a boxing series, I don't think I would ever do this. But if you did something crazy like that, well, now it's like, okay, cool.
Yeah, he's on a new platform, which is kind of a no- But he's doing a new, cool thing. Live events with a panel of audience. Yeah, it's not enough in this day and age. I don't actually know your background.
You're working like the tech world or whatnot. But like if you're in the entrepreneurial tech world, there's an ungodly amount of money that flies around in these rooms. Like the worst projects ever get like seven figure rounds of funding, eight figure rounds of funding. Like what's happening here?
It's not enough to just throw money at something because that was the solution. Like people would have already discovered these other platforms. You have to engage with it in a more intelligent way and more creative way. Then just like, oh, I paid him, you know, five million dollars a year.
Why didn't he, you know, grow my platform? So what's your thoughts on the monosphere at the moment? What do you think it gets right and wrong? I'll say very carefully because the manosphere is a very broad sphere and will incorporate everything from people thinking that like women are actual demons that are meant to be like used and abused and manipulated to further yourself in life all the way to this other end where it's like, you know, women actually might not start away.
It's good to be aware of this so that you can make yourself and the people around you have been more successful. So let me caveat by that. Broadly speaking, I think that I think that progressives over the past like 10 or 20 years have done an absolutely amazing job at reaching out. To minority groups and disaffected groups and making them feel like they have a voice.
We have awesome representation in media, even if some of it's a little cringe sometimes, you know, we're debating things like transports when 15 or 20 years ago, the only transfers need every single TV was on Jerry Springer or Mari. We have like, you know, different races of people in different areas of visibility is awesome. They've done a really good job at that. They've done an equally horrible job at kind of shitting on the prior dominant group, which is usually like white straight men.
And they, I think they've left them feeling like very disaffected. It's kind of sad. It seems to be part of like human nature that to advance one group. It seems like we almost like have to shit on another group.
That's like a required part of the human experience. But yeah, I think you've got kind of this group of like kind of these like white dudes that are kind of hanging out and you know, they have all this white privilege, but they're lonely. Some of them don't have very much money. They're not doing too well in school and no part of society seems interested in talking anymore.
I think that that kind of opened up this opportunity for initially it was like the Ben Shapiro's or like the Jordan Peterson's especially or the Joe Rogan's kind of talk to these people. And now that whole section is kind of exploded out into like the manosphere where you've got all these people willing to kind of give advice or talk to these basically these kind of like disaffected only white dudes that feel like no, they're not even just white dudes, but disaffected only men that feel like just kind of doesn't want to talk to them anymore because they're toxic or they're horrible or they're abused or they're rapists or you know. It's an interesting blend of cultural and structural problems. This guy in the show called Richard Reeves, he's a reporter called a Boys and Men and it looks at all of the conversations that you will be familiar with about evolutionary psychology and around the cultural interpretation of what it means to be a man today and how that plays out in the broader culture.
But he came in it from a completely structural perspective and he was saying things like in order for a male to have the same level of impulse control as a 10 year old girl, he needs to be 24. There's behavioral genetic studies Catherine Page-Harden who's out here in Austin and is also from the left, which is interesting is somebody that does behavioral genetics because that's typically not. She released this study looking at impulse control impulse control of a 10 year old girl is the same as a 24 year old man. It's wild.
My point being that there are structural issues that need to be looked at, but yes, as long as you are unable to have a conversation like this publicly without being that being an assumption that it's a zero sum game and gains for one are the loss of the other. Another thing to consider. I've been talking about this a lot as well. Intra-sexual competition is significantly more prevalent than inter-sexual competition.
Almost all competition is within your own sex, not between the sexes. Men compete with men and women compete with women and yet we've somehow been convinced that we reach other enemies rather than compatriots. Yeah, for sure. There's a lot of weird stuff that goes on with the way that everything is framed these days.
The problem is that you can go so deep on some of these conversations, but we can't even get any of these conversations off the ground. Even starting some of these conversations basically makes you public enemy number one and then you're just completely shot down. It seems like over the past five or ten years we've made zero progress on any of these things. There is an orthodoxy of thought right now for certain things.
I had a school administrator email me one time because I've been digging into school related stuff and how it seemed like it was moving pretty far in one direction. I don't know if you're familiar with this, but right now in the United States, women and men, there's like a 60-40 divided schools right now, where women are 60% of their lives. So the new graduates and men are 40% that's unbelievably tipped on the other side of where it was before. And then you mentioned structural problems, something interesting too is I think during the COVID-19 period, I think men were more likely to have to drop out of school to work with the families than women were, so it grew the divide even more.
But the school industry email me and he's like, the idea that you could even broach that topic, reach that topic and have that conversation like, maybe we need a affirmative action for men in schools or maybe we need to start looking at that. That's like an inconceivable conversation. You can ever even begin to have it. So yeah, we're definitely in an awkward point right now where there's a lot of important conversations that need to be had, but the mainstream and progressives won't have it.
So then as a result, only people on the very far right will have it. And I'll agree with the left that a lot of conversations happening on the far right are really dogshit, but they have nobody to blame but themselves because they're not willing to engage in the conversation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
And I always say that. That's a good question. It comes to join a Peter Center, Joe Rogan. People are horrible male wrongs.
It's like, I kind of agree to some extent. What's your alternative? You've nothing. You don't even want to talk to these people because you think that you think that men are fine and they don't need any help for anything.
And they've been to the patriarchy and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, damn, I remember learning about the patriarchy like five or 10 years ago. And back then, when we talked about the patriarchy, we talked about how the patriarchy was oppressive to men and to women. Why does it only seem to negatively affect women now?
Right? Like, I don't understand how it feels like all the old stuff we talked about doesn't matter anymore. And now it's just this hyper fixation on moving. I hate using words like, well, like moving in that direction as much as possible.
And then yeah, it's not surprising that you've got only five right figures or right leaning figures, at least one to talk to the disaffected male group. That's a good way to frame it that I hadn't thought about before. The fact that by not bothering to engage with this, you open up the floor inevitably for only one side to dominate. I don't think that that's particularly good in any situation.
It should. You should have multiple inputs. But if you don't, then you're going to have it completely besieged by one. So on the point of the dropout of men, this is from my newsletter from last week, in the span of just a few decades, girls and women have not only caught up with boys and men in the classroom, they've blown right past them.
Half a century ago, the landmark title nine law was passed to promote gender equality and higher education. At the time, there was a gap of 13% points in the proportion of bachelor's degrees going to men compared with women. Today, the gender gap is a little wider, 15% points out of 2019, but the other way round. For every three female college students that only about two men, the trend was in during the pandemic.
College enrollment as a whole declined in 2020, but that declined with seven times greater for male than for female students. Fucking wild. In some ways, that's awesome. We got more women in school.
We got them educated. That's so cool. It wasn't like a lot of people are watching, like a bio-watching, like women are stupid. They can't do blah blah blah.
And there was a lot of research. I was like, no, it's not true. Women are actually in some ways better at school than men because of the temperment differences between men and women and who's able to sit in a classroom or focus on whatever, which is cool. But we have to be able to maintain focus.
The focus wasn't on making women dominate men. It was making sure that we had some parodidance decided that we were able to kind of like that they both sides have the opportunity to explore, expand and succeed in school as much as possible. And if it feels like one group is being left behind, even if that group is somebody that previously was like a major powerholder, we should be able to have the conversation like, okay, well, what can we do to bring men back into the classroom? But men, even just saying those words, it's like, I can already imagine people freaking out like, what do you mean men?
Men make up 85% of CEOs and men earning out of women still, you know, 92% to 100% blah blah blah blah. And I was like, okay, fuck, I guess, you know, we're gonna go, we're gonna go to the extremes and then that's where you're gonna grow your data from. And I guess we just can't further the conversation at all. There's an argument to be made that it's all well and good talking about how many CEOs are men, but this doesn't really help the group of poverty, strict and drug adults incarcerated suicidal men at the bottom.
You get men at both ends of the scale. I also agree. I've come to believe that women do better than females do better than males in school. They just categorically they do better than males in school.
And the only reason that we didn't see this is because females had the breaks put on them. And now that we've released the breaks, I don't think that it's possible. Now, you can say, well, there should be different types of learning. There should be different types of schooling, maybe even gendered schooling that actually helps boys to get more playtime, be outside more, certainly more male schoolteachers.
Here's a stat that I learned. There are four times as many female fighter pilots in the US Air Force as there are male kindergarten teachers in the USA. Two percent of kindergarten teachers in the USA are male and seven percent of fighter pilots in the US Air Force are female. Now, then both of those may be underrepresented.
There may be should be more female fighter pilots, but to say that it's 90. Wait, hold on. That really only two percent of teachers are male? Is that true?
Kindergarten teachers. OK. Geez, that's crazy. I went too weird.
I grew up very Catholic. I went to a Jesuit high school. So the majority of my teachers were male, but that was high school too. But that's a crazy stat.
Yeah, it's true. And if you have a boy and a girl that goes into the head teacher's office for the same offense in discretion, whatever you want to say, the boy is two to four times as likely to be expelled as a girl. Like the prison system kind of, right? Men are more likely to receive given the same background or whatever.
I'm more likely to get harsher punishment from judges than women typically are, you know? But I'm digging into the monastery a little bit more. Do you think that the red pill movement is a net good for the world? I don't really know.
It's hard to say. Like if I get my hands on some of these guys, we start talking. The messages are usually pretty good, but then when I'm not there and I listen to talk, I wonder sometimes it's hard because like sometimes I feel like when somebody's there hold a little bit more accountable. And I also say for me too, like, this is why I learned this random side story.
There's a horrible geeky game. You don't have to be able to eat online. Yeah, it's the one where you make massive and drive around and stuff. I learned a lot about like leadership structures and managing people, whatever through that game.
It was really funny, but something that I learned was that anytime there was an argument for a particular idea, it is essential to have a person on each side of that argument because you always need to be holding yourself accountable. And if you've got everybody on one side, you can run off in a way. We've got a lot of blind spots. You just have to miss everything where I'm like, oh, well, we should have thought of this.
We should have that. So anytime, even if I like as a leader of my little game corporation, even if I thought it's something like, we should do this thing, I'd always make sure that there was another guy pointed to like, tell me like, this is why we shouldn't do it. And even if I decided to, at least I knew like, well, these are the drawbacks to why we shouldn't do this particular thing. I feel like with a lot of online political talk, a lot of the man is for guys, or with me, it's good to have two voices there.
We're like a moderating voice. You don't have to agree with everything I say, but I don't know how much you listen to these conversations. So like, we start getting into like terms of an accurate like the cock carousel of the yard or the thousand cock stare, like weird shit like that. What's the thousand cock stare?
I for women that have too much sex or like the cock carousel is women will fuck throughout their 20s and then they settle down with some poor schmuck and they fuck their way through 50 million people. Yeah, like we said, I feel you need somebody to ground you out a little bit more because the conversations are to get insanely one sided. And you're not accurately representing like what's truly going on in a lot of these interactions. So yeah, so it's hard to say like when I'm talking to a lot of the rental guys, if I get on their show, I talk, their messages are in my opinion, usually resoundingly positive.
They're talking about things like self improvement. They're talking about things like wealth and girls should be a byproduct of the improvements that you make in your life. They're not the goal. It's just something that will occur if you make yourself successful.
You know, it's usually overwhelmingly positive messages that usually tie into what are considered to be the positive aspects of masculinity. But it feels like sometimes I'm not there or if I'm listening in the background of this other stuff going on, it starts to get like very toxic like very quickly. What do you mean by toxic? Like the idea that like women are like different types of women are there to be churned and burned, that women are like kind of like very subservient to men and very like inferior.
In a lot of different ways that the value of women is tied in almost completely to like the amount of sex they can give you or how they look and that like women that pursue things like going to college or like further themselves or like masculinizing themselves in a really negative way. Yeah, I think these kinds of ideas get just the view of women in general. It feels, I understand to some extent, sex is kind of like a competition in a way. When you start to view all of life that way, kind of like what you said again versus women, like I think you should probably be women as like your partner's through life and not like these adversaries you're trying to tricking to fucking you constantly.
Or probably be a better outlook, I think. Dude, you've nailed it. It's the adversarial relationship, I think. And this is zero-sum game.
The presumption seems to be if a man sleeps with you, it is your loss and he's gained. I mean, let's just use that as a starting point. That doesn't seem to me, I've had about a million people in my life and about half of them were women, right, on the front door of nightclubs working. So I've seen people at their most unencumbered between the hours of 10pm and 3 in the morning.
For the most part, they get on absolutely fine. I don't think that they're trying to fuck each other over. My experience of human nature is that almost everybody is pretty kind and gentle and yeah, there's muscles out there, but for the most part everybody's pretty sweet. Yeah.
One thing that's interesting, you mentioned about the fact that a lot of the sort of red pill advice focuses on self-inflation. It always seems to have an undertone or an undercurrent of that self-improvement, even if it's just for you still being in service of getting girls eventually. The best way to get a girl is to focus on yourself. This focus on yourself is just a smokescreen to hide the real goal of still being reliant on validation from girls.
Yeah. It's very funny too because the more toxic you get into that sphere, nothing is more funny to me than a group of guys that are talking about how fucking worthless women are and these sluts and horrors. But at the end of the day, how do they signal that they're like, top shit? It's because they've got really hot girls next to them.
Nothing is more funny to me than saying that you need that validation so much that women are at one end. They're these incredibly adversarial things to be conquered, but then in the other end, they give you more of a dude walking in with a $20,000 watch and a $50,000 suit. It doesn't look as good as the guy walking with the four hot girls because if he's got four different hot women that are valiant, that guy must be the coolest dude in the world. Pretty sluts.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's a very interesting world to see that sometimes the more I remember listening to this one, this is really famous old, like, in sales speech, this guy sounds like all sorts of like, these sluts are coming into our world now and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the next part of the speech is, I'm going to show you guys how to get two or three of these girls at the same fucking time.
And it's so funny that while he's simultaneously talking about how fucking horrible and bloody women are, he's going to show you how cool you are by getting you a lot of these girls because that's ultimately where the validation comes from. And that's very funny to me. What sort of guys do you think, or what sort of girls do you think that the guys who follow Red Pill will be getting? It seems to me that there is a selection bias for the kind of interactions that a lot of the guys that follow that philosophy to the absolute team will get and that will jade and color their view of women overall.
Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think that you can shop for certain types of women that will probably reinforce certain types of beliefs. And then the first thing that I think is always one of the big criticisms I have when I want somebody's shows is that like, it feels like they get themselves stuck into these self perpetuating cycles where if you're only valuing women for like, let's say you come into the mindset of like, okay, if a woman's got a college degree, she's earning a lot of money.
She's masculine eyes. Okay. Fuck her. And then if a woman's not like looking her best and taking care of herself or blah, blah, blah, she's not being feminine enough.
So fuck them. So like, who you left with? You've got like girls at like, everyone to school girls that are focused on the looks of the time girls that are like, girl, so they're like, girl so they're like, girl so they're like, girl so they're like, when you're in this group of people. Like, well, look at how women act.
All they're trying to do is like, you know, fuck up in terms of like a fuck upward social ability. They're trying to find like really wealthy men, like they don't give up their really shallow. Like they don't know like any of the shit about like how many countries are on the planet blah, blah, blah, blah, yeah, you end up in this cycle. Like, of course, that's the type of women that you're like hitting over and over and over and you're hitting on it because that's like the message that you're setting up to the world.
Like this is the only type of woman that you're even looking at. Like everybody else invisible to you. So yeah, I definitely think a lot of these worlds get into these self reinforcing cycles where they filter out everybody that doesn't agree with how they view the world. And then if you filter out enough, then obviously every single thing you find is going to reinforce your point of view.
Do you think that the red pill guys are kind of, but some of them could if they took this to the nth degree kind of poison the well for other men? Because as you sleep around more, you create the alpha widows that other men are taught to avoid. So there is a finite pool of women and if you leave a bunch of broken ones in your wake because that's part of the philosophy that you follow. Like it seems to me the fundamental issue that I have with the current iteration of men's advice from this side of the internet is that it helps individual men at the expense of pretty much everybody else.
Yeah, I mean, like there's, we could do like a seven hour show on the hilarious contradiction is of like all of that to really funny ones. Oh man, you just you just brought up the like the the the alpha male, right? The tichelical. Yeah, well, like the alpha male creates off the widows, right?
Or yeah, like the point is you're supposed to have as many girls as possible. Like these guys will talk about like, have you heard of the concept of like this one sided open relationship? A little bit. It's like more and more popular that I see popping up in these spheres where they're like, oh yeah, like a normal, a good relationship is where the man is open to fuck as many women as he wants, but the woman is close and she can't fucking even.
That's like becoming more and more. It feels like the norm in these circles. And I'm like, I mean, how many men could do this before all those other women now are like ruined? Like, isn't that kind of a bad cycle to be?
And you're talking about like 1% of the men fucking it up. And it's funny because these guys will talk about like, you, I'm sure you heard the term hypergamy. Yes, it goes like aren't you aren't you by virtue of telling people to do it like furthering like the amount of hypergamy into like ruining everything by doing this. There's that that you're like creating a worse world by the way that you live.
You really think that's a bad world, which they seem to think there was a second argument I got to once in the show. I was on the freshman and everybody agrees that like you have to stay away from single moms. It's the worst thing ever. What?
Fuck. I don't have this term for him. I don't know. It's like something like use him and lose him or something.
He had like a thing for him. It was like one time use only or for fun use only whenever it was like Jesus. But then later on in the show and we all talked about how like if you're single dad, usually you're in a better position of date than like a single mom, et cetera. Like everybody agreed on this.
You've been going to sit on the panel. I agree with that. So months go hard at time. But it was really funny because in the later part of the show, we got out of something about like the unfairness that men face in like the court systems and somehow like Alimony and single moms came up again.
But now these guys are like single moms are in the best spot in the world because every woman that devours It's apparently gets like a five figure a month paycheck from their husband and they get tons of they get all this Alimony all this child support they take your other car and then my question like hold on I'm not using the single moms were fucked now You're making it sound like simple moms are the best people in the world today Why would I want to date a single dad is a loser and lost all his money when I go out for a single mom? Who's ex boyfriend is paying for all of her shit? That sounds like the best and they had a really hard time trying to parse out like bringing these two different like trains of thought into One another because like fuck well, single moms are really bad spot or they also are they actually the best people in the world? Like yeah, I think if you dig in really hard on the man You start to run into like a lot of very strange contradictions to where either like different ideas when they're brought together or Incongruent or you're like actively furthering and creating a worse world by the advice of giving people That's why I started with the question do you think that it's a net positive or negative for the world?
I It's an interesting one and I've slowly started to change my opinion on a number of the creators like fresh and fit one of them As I've taken more of the good kernels out of it I'm like okay, like there's some there's some really good stuff in here It's framed and packaged so often in things that it's difficult to discount alongside that though So I've been thinking for a long time about the idea of a third wave manosphere Right, yeah, so I think that I think that first wave manosphere was pick up artistry It was Neil Strauss. It was the game it was mystery It was nagging and like neuro linguistic programming and canned openers and all that stuff and then me to happen That was not going to survive me too. Maybe it wouldn't have survived in any case But me too sort of hurriedly on set of that so you needed to sanitize the advice that was being given to men Especially around dating it couldn't be as transactional It couldn't be as aggressive and then out the other side of that now you have instead of being pick up and game It's high-value man. It's alpha beta.
It's Talking about evolutionary psychology more so it's just going to market a sexual market value and stuff like that I still think that the fundamental issue that it has is that it sees many women as adversaries I think that you need to have a version of this where you can have collaboration where you can Pedestilize men as fathers where you can pedestalize women as mothers like one of the biggest contradictions that you see is monogamy is something Which is good at least in society overall Because it is a sexual redistribution strategy that helps men at the bottom to get partners it allows more societal stability It encourages conservative and traditional values amongst women which is something which also seems to be upheld But in the same sentence you're looking to run through as many women as you can that doesn't seem to really marry those two things together And again the man's when is the woman's loss and to me that doesn't seem like a very collaborative way not a positive some way abundant way to Frameness so I'm just thinking about what a third wave manosphere would look like how would you be able to advise men and have this? I understand that there's a sexiness to certainty that comes with a lot of the messaging Okay, so what would a third wave manosphere look like? Yeah, I guess it's like I wish the people I think that and this is what I was The ripple guys a lot of the descriptions they make a lot of the observations they make about how things work is usually pretty true I think that's how people hook initially because they are describing real things Sometimes in stark contrast to what like the left is gonna say like the left will say things like oh like you know No matter how woman looks, you know, we should still love her or like oh like no matter how much money a man earns like We all love men no matter what the same way or like that's not important like that's shallow But like you go on to the world obviously people are making decisions relating to stuff like this all the time So you immediately just can't anything they're gonna say you're gonna lie to me you're gonna look at my ass I'm gonna know you're gonna go the red pill guys know like well, you know money is pretty important to women and the security you provide And you know for men like they do like younger pretty ones like okay cool That's cool, and then you get into their you know kind of world and they're telling it Yeah women like security because they're backstabbing and I think fucking sluts that are only looking to take care of their Projany and they're offspring and they'll leave you in a second They find a more successful man so you need to fuck her and make sure that she stays so oily and it's like oh well We shit Jesus the descriptions will be accurate Then like the analysis passive descriptions get so negative and it's like Jesus like it would be nice if you could bundle up like You have your observations But then you kind of find ways to make these more understandable So like like here's something that I consider right people will say things like women are drawn towards success because they like money And they like security and they want to provide for their children And that's probably partially true I'm sure there's like some extent of those two but I'm also sure that the types of people that become successful are also probably types of people that are pretty attractive If you've made it really far in some business industry You probably have a lot of traits that aren't just good for that industry They're probably good for people too, right? Like I hope I do these only as a streamer and youtuber I hope that I also can do these only conversations I can like be pretty entertaining in real life I can have you know like good experiences with people and there's gonna be like a lot of crossover between like what makes a Person really successful versus what else makes a person like a cooler fun or awesome person to hang around And I think that like trying to view things more realistically through that lens rather than this like hyper bastardized hyper obsessive need To use like Evo psych to explain every facet of human interaction I just I feel like the former is so much better than the letter is healthier more like he's a more collaborative It puts us all kind of on this path Okay, how do we improve all of ourselves rather than where it feels like we're in survivor trying to fuck over the other parties Much as possible still making out as well as we can an interesting question I would ask any of the guys in the red pill world is do you think that you need to educate women about how to be better collaborative partners With men on average as well as men and it seems to me that you do it seems to me that books like mate by Took a max and Jeffrey Miller If you've been familiar with that so they basically did this about 10 years ago And they Jeffrey Miller's one of the fathers of evolutionary psychology's done many of the seminal studies that people refer to when they're talking about this Dating and gender dynamics and mating system.
They wrote a book this book would be amazing for every woman to read as well All women should read that book if you want to make the dating market a better place for everybody overall You need to bring women along to yeah, and it's a very specific type of woman that is going to sit down in Kevin Samuels You know as an example the very specific type of woman that would have taken that rhetoric that he was putting forward and go Yeah, actually that's that's what I want to hear That's not to say that he didn't have an impact on some women that listens But it's quite an extreme way to go about it that I can imagine will raise more hackles than it convinces people gently Mm-hmm. Yeah, I definitely agree kind of on that same kind of thought and I don't know I might just miss it are there any red pill people that talk about relationships at all because I feel like they only talk about like Getting the girl initially. I don't know if I've ever heard a red pill person talk like these are the things you need to do to maintain healthy strong relationships Have you seen there's a subreddit called married red pill? No, I haven't seen it at all No married red pill is applying Eve's like red pill dynamics to sustaining a long-term relationship So yeah kind of the only the only creator that I can think of is Hamza He's the only guy that I can think of that fits into that particular niche He's got a girlfriend at the moment He uploaded a video with him in his goal walking down the street just being happy or something the other day And some guy decided to comment on YouTube saying something like imagine putting in all of this effort for an absolute fucking pig Something like that because he didn't like I'm like, you know, that's the area of the internet that I Really really don't want to be associated with Right, right most guys are going to end up in a long-term committed relationship Surely optimizing for what most guys are going to get is a good way to educate them and starting where they are as well I think you talk about kind of the selection effect of having an open relationship That it's only for a very specific type of person the very specific mental makeup And maybe not everybody can deal with that and even if you can maybe you can't find a partner or partners that are prepared to deal with that as well Well, do we not need to try and get people to the stage but meet them where they're at and slowly try and improve people from there?
And yeah, I mean the main issue is this is a real mentality So the fact that the man's gain is a woman's loss and I wonder what a more holistic version of it would look like No, yeah, I definitely agree the adversarial part the winning and losing is really bad with all the things and Please for a ton of negative outcomes. Yeah, consider as well that men have got a huge loneliness problem at the moment So in the UK two out of five men have no friends at all and I worry that Some of the rhetoric sees all men as either threats or enemies rather than friends or companions Like you need to be able to see other men not just the ones that can help you further your body count this week or bank balance next month As people that you can collaborate with Mm-hmm. I that's it. Yeah, that's another thing to that I talk about a lot or that I've talked about a lot that men We kind of stuck at friendships compared to women.
I think that women are I want to say a lot of you saw I think it was like of all the men that are single and it's like 24% of them are okay with Being single forever, but I think for women that numbers like 37 or 38% It's like almost like 15 points higher and or maybe it's like 15 points out of each other I guess I think that the one of the reasons I think is because if you look at the way that men communicate with each other Versus women can give each other women friendships are very emotionally satisfying There is a lot of gratification there between opening up and sharing close and into details with each other and for male friendships We don't do that much at all and it seems like for men kind of the only place you ever really get that You're coming with it from a woman is there like a relationship like with a woman? So I think that like having a bunch of men that have and I don't know if you've experienced this like I've had like groups of friends We're like well guys we talked about like one dude like destroy his life and we're just coming good like man Like you know it's on you like you don't really want to like pull this like hey We never get a deep talk about you make some really bad decisions or whatever whereas like women friendships like they hold each other I emotionally countable a lot more or I know there's been I'm guaranteed like every single stand-up comedian has had like this same Skit where he's like you know a guy gets home and he talks to you like what do you do it's like what to work and if I'm Like what do you do after got drink? Okay, and then like for women the money talk was like oh I want to work and I saw Sarah and we talked this and she told me about this or kid about a lot like the communications way more better More better, but yeah, I think that that fleshing out male friendships is probably a good thing too We don't talk about that either. I think we'd seen as something that men should innately know about I think you should just be able to find friends as an adult But I had this guy called Max Dickens on the show and he told me this really sort of moving story He was getting to the stage where he was about to engage get married to his partner So he proposes to her and then after he's going engaged He's going to get his suit fit It is wedding suit and he was with a female friend that he's known for ages his female friend turned to him and said so who's gonna be a best man and no one came to mind and he said I Must just be being a little bit confused or something It'll just give me give me a few minutes and I'll be able to work it out And he looked at his list of male friends And they were all people that he worked with but didn't really know that well that he would feel a little bit strange if he asked them to be a best man Yeah, and he realized holy shit We're of all of my male friends gone and this is something that's very common that once men get into relationships They absorb the friend group of the female and that becomes their new social circle And that first off closes off the potential size of a social circle because they can't ever go and find new people to bring into their wife's Friends group and also if they ever lose the wife the friendship goes away as well Yeah, so it makes for a very lonely existence and I think that yeah working out how men can be more collaborative in that way too Is pretty pretty important.
Do you ever talk about work from home? No, not much I feel like a lot of people champion didn't they like it But I'm worried that like work from home is gonna be like that final tether to reality that is gonna snap and a lot of people are just Man dude over the coronavirus pandemic a lot of people doing for work home and they still do it I think there's a lot of guys that like literally for eight months They never left the fucking house and for a lot of people like our work environments are already male dominated So it's hard well like if you're a man you work like an attacker like STEM related stuff It's like gonna be two women to like every 100 men But even for finding like male guy friends and just seeing people every day If you are a social person that's good because you're still going out and doing things But if you're not man, you're like losing the last bit of human interaction except maybe saying hi to like your door-to-door person that you're ever gonna get absolutely man. Yeah, that's a really good point I think that there was some work done in this by Scott Galloway dude from NYU had on yesterday And he was talking about how the work from home phenomenon had caused increases in social anxiety Obviously increases in screen time use all of this stuff that everybody independently says is a bad idea What happens I think is we confuse a comfortable or convenient activity for a worthwhile or enjoyable one But just because you don't need to do the commute to work just because you get to wear a shirt up top with shorts or boxes down below Doesn't necessarily mean that this is good for you It doesn't necessarily mean that you should lean into working from home and perhaps overall even though it might be more inconvenient and more difficult It might actually be better to make that trip into the office Something that I think we're gonna learn probably gonna take something 20 30 or 40 or 50 years to learn it But I think something we're gonna learn is that there was a lot of natural friction that existed in life that made a lot of the payoffs way more fulfilling And as we've gotten better with tech, we've gotten really good at removing the friction from fucking everything What I think at the end what what like oh like uh like everything so I'm sure you've read books before right Like there is a feeling even for fictional books Maybe people here for like at least a hair powder right There is a feeling to like turning the last page in a book and closing it It will never be matched by scrolling memes on tiktok or reddit for like 12 hours But it's so easy to scroll for memes that like maybe let's just do that let's do that all day every day like you look at your screen time on your phone You'll like throw up like four five six seven eight hours a day on your screen staring at your phone scrolling through me I don't remember anything. It's like no fulfilling experience there ever but um the friction is like not there at all Like I just pick on my phone and I push and I get a happy button over and over again Um the idea behind like uh meeting people even like where do you meet most of your friends and everything in life?
Like people wouldn't expect it like okay. We choose our friends. We do choice freedom and blah blah blah no no no no It's in the areas that you're the most restricted You meet a lot of friends and dating parts of it in school We're forced to socialize with people or in the work environment We're forced to be around people or in these places where you're like you're throwing together with 20 30 other kids And you have to like socialize but usually that's like an overwhelming positive mode 99% people come out with at least one friend or like friend groups or whatever Um, I mean without getting too controversial. Did you follow like the Robin Hood game stop all that?
Do you how do you feel about that what you mean? People just lapping their way to potential financial ruin all those of chick-and-tendys Okay, cool. Okay. I think we're on the same page.
Yeah, okay Some people really champion that as like the other little dog story But I think one thing that we learned we'll talk about friction is um without getting too complicated the finance thing But there's this idea that you have apps now that allow you to buy and sell stocks for free And it's so cool and so gratifying and it's gamified you down with these apps You can do it and now you get a lot of these people that are buying and selling stocks have no way They're losing all their money on it And it's like maybe there should be like a little fee attached to a trade So you have to think at least a little bit before you push that button to buy or sell a stock It's not trading. It's gambling. Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's true But yeah, I think there's so many areas in life where having a little bit of friction is good You should work a little bit to do something because it does something to the human brain It's a more satisfying feeling experience and left at their own devices Humans will you know inject fucking heroin into their minds and push it button and do that for the rest of their lives without anything Like I mean we need to have we need to be somewhat on rails when you do it Yeah, I have at least a little bit of friction in life to make sure you're working for sometimes rewards Also just so poisonous to the mind the path of least resistance is the one that you're always going to be able to find Does this concept I learned about called the region beta paradox?
You heard this? Nope pretty cool Imagine you have a rule you always walk when you're traveling a mile or less and you always drive when you're going more than a mile If you follow that rule, you will paradoxically travel two miles faster than you travel one mile The important insight here is if you only take action when things cross a certain threshold of badness Sometimes better things can feel worse than worse things Look around and you find lots of people stuck in region beta The guy who sticks around it is just okay job instead of ditching it for the chance for something better The couple who should break up can't bring themselves to do it The friend who refuses to get a new apartment because their current one has some black mold All of these people would actually be better off if their situations were worse Because they'd leave their jobs partners in apartments and be glad they did That only regret would be not leaving sooner And that zone of comfortable complacency comfortably numb scenario is where a lot of people get stuck Not with the activation energy to kick out of the bottoms, it's terrible And not ascended to the top of the highest flourishing heights that human civilization could offer them Gotcha, okay, I didn't know that name but I know this concept from the other end I want to say there might be a name for something called decision paralysis But basically it's like if you could graph like the discomfort or whatever in going into a new situation It's always gonna get a little bit worse before it gets better And getting over that initial bad hump is really challenging for a lot of people The way that I overcame this is anytime I got like kind of shitty decisions that I have in front of me There's one thing that's always gonna be true, well I assume it's gonna be true And that's the time always moves forward And so in one year, three years or five years, you will get there, you're gonna be 35, you're gonna be 37, you're gonna be 39 You are gonna be there and given that you know that to be true Looking back on this moment, what decision would you have been happier making? And using that process there have been times where I've been able to make decisions that are hard That I know I should be for a while but it's like I know that three years from now I look back and I continue this palette and I fucking hate myself Because I can already look back one year and it's like fuck, why did that guy make that decision? Fuck him or what?
Why would I stick here? And then in three years be like fuck, it feels really shitty If you think it feels really bad to sink two years into something that sucks, try singing 10 years into it Holy fuck, and if you think 10 years is bad, you might be an attender, you might be 32 years old and shitty You're like fuck me, I'm wasting my whole 20s, try wasting your whole 30s and 40s, okay? Dating at 55 is a lot harder than dating at 30, you know? Yeah, you've always got so much to be grateful for, you always got like so much you can prove sometimes there'll be little bumps that make it hard to get over it I think there's a really one up from another reminder that is there was some military colonel or somebody I don't remember but I think that I feel like I watched this guy give an inspirational speech and he said that You should try to set your goal to do like some really mean-you'll tell us like I think he said brush one tooth like don't you don't have to go the bathroom brush your teeth just brush one tooth And the idea is that by the time you get there if you do nobody just brushes one tooth you do that you're gonna do the rest right?
Or if you go to the gym it's like okay I don't want to go into my toes the gym I'm just gonna do one lift I'm gonna go and I'm gonna squat and I'll leave Well chances are if you go and you do your one lift you're not gonna want to leave after 20 minutes You're gonna do the rest of your work because you're already there You know but yeah, I agree with what you're saying that is a real phenomenon You have to learn a lot of little tricks to get your mind over that little hump because that little hump is insignificant as it is can destroy your entire fucking life You'll never get over it and you'll be comfortable Fuck what is it? Fuck there are King Floyd lyrics or whatever before you know it like your whole life has gone I'm from Darkside on that but yeah Yeah that little bump could be really damaged to a lot of people Beginning the momentum is super super hard a really great question that I had people ask during covid was Look you've got we don't know how long we're gonna be locked down we're gonna be locked down for four months say or six months ended up being a bit longer in the UK What would have happened by the end of lockdown for you to look back on lockdown and consider it a success You have the entire world at your feet. Yeah, you can't travel and yeah there's restrictions on your freedoms and what what what But really you can do anything you want to lose five pounds you want to start learning a new language or play the piano or Improve your relationship with your kids. What would have happened over the next four months for you to look back and consider it a success And that ends up giving you so much perspective in an insanely accurate way You look back.
No, it's obvious what I want to have happened I know what I want to have happened over the next few months And yet without the little tricks that can push that inertia and just get it out of the way people get stuck in zero as opposed to one one Yeah, for sure. Yeah, life is very easy right now So in some ways it's scary. Yeah, can you explain to me? What stochastic terrorism is because I'm seeing this term get thrown around on the internet a lot and I don't know what it is It used to be really popular five years ago.
It's a bit out of out of date now I don't think it's as much maybe it's coming back, but stochastic terrorism is basically the idea that like I'm going to lead you To the assault rifle this is what I'm not gonna be able to figure it's basically like what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna provide all the necessary Circumstances and rhetoric for you to feel like you need to take violent action without me saying it So have you heard of like the great replacement kind of so that might be an idea So basically maybe I'll talk about like okay, listen. They're brown people. They're coming to your country They're raping your women. They're taking over.
They're becoming bigger voting blocks and you're gonna lose all of your rights all of your freedoms And eventually you're gonna be a minority or country and you're gonna be subjugated to their role Now I'm not gonna do what to do about it, but I'm gonna make sure you really understand that right And then so when this type of rhetoric becomes very pervasive like inevitably somebody's gonna feel like they have to stand up and take action because holy Shit because I mean obviously if you really believe this happening you probably should take action And then the violence that results in that people would say like well, that's a result of stochastic terrorism, maybe Okay, so laying all of the breadcrumbs up into a pointer which something can flare up It's right. Yeah, but also having culpable deniability to be able to stay away from it. Do you think that is it everywhere at the moment? Oh, no, I think it's a very I think there are a lot of things that are fun tools to use to analyze what's going on in society You just be very careful when you start swinging out your mowl hammer about condemnation because um like yeah Like I think that the concept of stochastic terrorism is good one and it's something we should analyze But like depending on how flexible you want to be with it like everybody does it right like you could argue that the mass of BLM riots In the united states We're part of that was stochastic terrorism that like saying that police were all gonna kill black people that politics don't care about you voting doesn't matter Capitalist hates you well, of course people are gonna go riot and steal shit because we know why wouldn't you if that's what you believe So yeah, I think that it's good to I like the concept because it's good to be like well, where does I read or leave people like if somebody in my audience Let's say that I find out right now that somebody my audience went and did a mass shooting and killed a bunch of women Um, do I feel like I've said things that leave people down that road because if so, I would want to change it I don't want people feel that way.
I feel like I have a responsibility to my audience that I'm not giving them a message where it feels like the only way out is You know through violence or something. Um, so yeah, it's a good concept to know of and to be aware of Um, but don't like get weird about like calling people terrorists and shit and go like crazy or whatever. Yeah, but it's a terrorism part I didn't quite understand because terrorism is a very specific type of crime phenomenon that people engage in I don't know I didn't it didn't see it just seems like it might just be a lexical problem, right? It might just have poor branding, but it doesn't really seem to make so much sense to me That being said the unsaid things what it is that you're not saying is often as powerful as what you are saying And I suppose that this speaks to that Vacuum that allows speculation to fill it and then for the answer to take action off the back of the speculation Yeah, it's very relevant to what we're talking about like the, um, man of spirit stuff, um, Joining Peterson does this a lot, but we won't have to get into that but like somebody will come away from like a red book A lot of red plus stuff and somebody may be a left thing person Well, look at them.
We're like you guys hate women like I feel like you hate women And then the other crowd will look at you like finally one time in this entire video where we said we hated women And it's like, I guess you never said it's like that's right. So we love women It's like, okay, maybe you do but like if you look at all of the messaging All of the cock carousel comments all of the like slut hoe comments all of the like virgins are the only women worth anything comments All of the women are like the sucky by that are looking for parablet It feels like you hate but I guess you never really to say yeah If that level of plausible deniability and that inevitability to where you're leading your audience that I think triggers the fuck out of a lot of people Or these triggers sometimes, you know, I heard Hassan say I have hatred in my heart for this man Was that actually about you? Probably we have a very uh, is it sorted the word like very sorted history? I think why I would have considered both of you guys are from the left I know that there's distances that you can go on the left, but I would have thought that you guys would have been That's a whole other hour long.
It's very long history. I didn't realize there was a law Oh, yeah, it was we kind of came from my community. Um a long time. Maybe three years ago.
Um, there's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of shit So yeah, well, I mean, this is one of the things that people often talk about the fact that on the right The way that some of the more bombastic commentators can go about things It makes it kind of obvious that this person is disagreeing with this person and there's infighting and so and so forth I think because of at least publicly how a lot of the left wing is presented at the moment the empathy the kindness the compassion the inclusion So and so forth. Uh, it's kind of assumed that everybody also gets on that that included in that is uh harmony But it seems like maybe not I think there's something called the bigotry of small differences where yes You just you have this taste of the people that are like you more than the people that aren't like you Yeah, and I think I actually kind of feel that too now and now that I've seen it firsthand Um like if I'm arguing with a conservative person and their audience is like calling me like a cock a loser a bitch boy But whatever like I don't care like what like why the fuck would I care like sure? Okay?
But when I argue with left wing people and their audiences are calling me like transphobic and racist and hateful like no Not at all with the fuck you talking like those instills that come from crowds are more politically similar I mean bother the fuck I mean because they're attacks against me or in my world are totally fucking untrue Like I don't like fuck you like that's not even remotely Joe I imagine it's probably similar for like even like manospere guys if people like oh you hate women you guys are blah blah blah blah Whatever fuck you like what do you know? Whereas like if you're getting attacked by another manospere guy he's calling you like oh you're kind of a pussy You're like I don't think you're really men enough and they're like oh what the fuck this is my whole philosophy of course I am Um, so yeah, I think that the closer you're ideologically to somebody the more irritated you are like some of those smaller differences Whereas with really huge differences you're like yeah, we're totally different like yeah, what is it? I suppose as well you would presume that the people who are on a different side to you would understand the nuance of your Argument a lot less whereas the people the people who do have that same side you go look The fear and the reason it might strike a little bit closer to you is that maybe there could be some veracity to other things I don't think that there is but what if there is what if it is the fact that they understand they've read all the same books as me They follow the same people as me and they've come up with this particular conclusion Yeah, no, yeah, I know what you mean because they're closer so it feels like they're like if somebody makes a wildly outlandish This is actually true about content creators not to reveal too much of a secret But like if you go to a content creators like chatroom or twitter whatever and you say like oh I hate you because you're like, you know, you're four feet tall and like okay, whatever I don't care but if somebody goes in like I hate you because you're very weird ears and that's something that the person feels like self-conscious about that Install is gonna hit a lot more like fuck is he right? You're like people like people the things that are more true the more true and insult is the more kind of bother somebody and people on your side Are probably able to dig into something that is like more like resembling the things that you care about Yeah, more resembling of like your your similar ideologies.
Yeah, such a though Get under your skin more I think I was a cricket match a couple of years ago And there was it was a very drinky one day affair one of the players who was on the pitch who was black Had recently had his wife cheat on him with some of the cricket played it wasn't on the pitch at the same time The crowd after they had quite a few beers and it was a little bit later in the day It started doing a chant about this guy's wife and about where she was and whatever it was like a mean chit I mean chant around him It made me really reflect on the fact that had they've decided to make a chant about his skin color Every single person would have been called out on social media arrests would have been attempted so on and so forth but the precision targeted weapons grade pharmaceutical chant about something very specific that was not an immutable truth of himself that he basically didn't Get to choose but was a byproduct of his lifestyle that was somehow permitted Yeah, that blew my mind the difference between those two It seems like it kind of throws into Interesting light what we mean by freedom of speech and things that are protected and things that aren't because sometimes the region beta Right sometimes worse things can feel better than better things or at least worse in the eyes of the law. Yeah, yeah, absolutely for sure Yeah, and I'm sure there are some people where you can say some things about them that like everybody like a racial slur or sexist slur or something like that And you're like that's horrible, but like you can dig in really deep one up there insults and be like oh, that's kind of mean or whatever But it's like, you know not pretty good. Yeah, exactly. Yeah for sure What would you do if you were a if you were trying to advise the left on how to re-engage with men online What needs to be dispensed with or what would be the place that you can begin at because you're right It is very much dominated by people that have more conservative traditional values But if you want to have a healthy debate you need to have people from all sides What are some ideas that you've got about how to engage more effectively?
Um, this is it's really cringy because everybody says this but I guess I'll throw my hat into the ring and say as well You have to be willing to engage with truthful things Once you've kind of let the truth take a backseat to your political ideology You've like compromised your ability to communicate with anybody so as soon as you've gotten to a world where it's like oh well men and women Like I've had huge arguments with people where they've told me that like men and women are roughly the same strength as each other Sometimes cultural difference is make it a little bit different and when you're starting to have arguments like that Nobody's gonna listen and you're saying because it's clearly you want men and women to be able so much that you're willing to sacrifice like true observations for things That now you're just you're in another world. Yeah, you're like your epistemic statements Your your ideas about like gathering knowledge and truth in the world that can't take a backseat to what you feel is right Um, that's that's yeah, that's not good and conservatives do it too sometimes to some extent I'll say just people in love but people on the left are especially egregious with it right now when it comes to analyzing things We're waiting to like men and women or trans people or some other types of social issues as well You know, you have to be willing to start and that's usually that's how I usually build bridges with people on the right is I'll start with like a true observation like if you come at me and you're like well I think that black people do actually commit a lot more crime than you as the white people Yeah, they do I'll agree with you. That's an important part of my analysis, right? Well, why do they commit more crime?
That's like the important question as not trying to fight well if we massage the stats enough I can actually show you that the crime is actually the same if I control for age if I control for where they live in the city I control for this and that and that is a policy exact same as yeah, well if you control for enough fucking things you can make everything the same as another thing, you know But yeah, I think that that's like my big that makes it guys like be willing to make true bold observations and then work from there and that I mean Fuck we have all like the sociologists and anthropologists on that show that thing I should be your job regardless is to make those hard strong observations and build from there It surprises me given the fact that there would be a market for a left-leaning commentator who wants to speak to men about personal development and dating and stuff like that The online content creation world is a pretty good market for allowing Gaps and unsatisfied audiences to be fed because as soon as somebody starts to find it they get audience captured and start to go down that rabbit hole Is it a fear of being sort of lambasted as a whatever foborist from the left that is stopping creators from going and doing that at the moment? Yeah, I mean like there's kind of there's always like an ideological purity that's enforced really by everybody on the Not an ideological an ideological purity and ideological rigidity such that if you buck any one of some statement that you're supposed to be on board with people It was literally the opposite side like there's a lot of people that gives me being like a far right creator or fascist or Nazi adjacent I've gotten a lot because I don't like toad the line on every single left thing even though I'm more progressive than probably 95% of people on the planet Or 99% of you want to plan it like 95% of the western world so yeah, I mean It's I can see the fear there wanting to stay with your tribe and I'll be like an outcast and the sacred cow if you decide to go for one of them That's you that's game over The sacred cow if you decide to go for one of them one of the one of the sacred cows like declaring that gender differences are actually real Declaring that many women are the same. Oh, yeah, you get yeah depending on which idea you hit on you You get a lot of trouble for that one. Yeah, for sure destiny ladies and gentlemen if people want to check out the stuff that you do online Where should they go?
And youtube.com slash destiny I'm instagram.com slash destiny and I've got a friend on twitter called necroliberalism But I'm band on twitter so I'm not allowed to have a concert but yeah, dude. I appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks a lot