This podcast was brought to you by good episode productions pretty freaking epic How are we doing gang gang of which I'm head off? I see myself as head of this I know you will hate this but I do in my head. I always see myself as like the leader That's okay. Would you say you were the alpha to me in particular?
You're the alpha to my omega. Yeah Yeah, I'm I'm impregnating you. Okay, you're I still don't know what's there I still refuse to learn what the specific on the guy's terminology is I I spilled riaka on my keyboard Drinking riaka that's interesting Drinking mine's good Muriel mine is a camp over your home Grande oh, we love a bit of camp over your home Yeah Celebrating because I've recently I've received some very good news today and so I've been drinking wine Charlotte got full marks on her non-sins certificate I think I had a I had a hot huge bowl of pasta I made with lovely sweet peppers and scrambled egg and big chunks of garlic and scotch bonnets in it I've started thinly slicing the garlic instead of Crushing it which I used to do I think if you use more and thinly slice it you get a better flavor out Okay, that's mmm as long as it's cooked for a nice long time in the oil before you put the tomatoes I literally always chop garlic because I hate I hate washing garlic crushes. Yeah, I have a guy to crush So I just garlic crushes are they are a decadent De-bauched tool of Satan.
It's called the side of a knife. That's that's yeah, but it's much much easier much cleaner I don't know I was also slicing not content So Janish doesn't respect me talking about food. No Can you not cook yes? No I get I don't know I just never in the brain space where I would be able to cook I remember I have to eat like two hours too late like after I'm already really hungry.
Yes No, I'm exactly the same. I am exactly the same. This is why I get other people to cook for me Yes, that's true He needs to cook for yourself when you've got a boyfriend literally pop loves to cook So it's fine because he is just like happy to do it. Yeah today.
We had sea-brain and prawns and Rice and roast vegetables and it was delicious What is it meant to be because I thought it was sea breeze and then my mom was like no, it's sea-breen. It's bream Okay, it's not made of Honestly none of this says anything to me. It's a photo in Spanish if that helps. Oh, it's a fish, okay Yeah, what do rather?
Was it bream as in B. R. E. A.
M. That's I think a start to value fish, right? Well, it's yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's that's where I know fish names from Getting mad at K now because she's like I'm doing wisdom Wednesday wrong when I said when to win to 2021 And I'm like no, I'm just I just said wisdom Okay, insisted wisdom Wednesday is if you have a specific recommendation for your friends to do That's not a Wednesday is nothing you can't just do this.
Yes, we can Tuesday But you can't come up with something that's identical to controversy Monday and claim it's a Wednesday It's not it's not identical because wisdom Wednesday is something that is true whereas controversy Monday is most often people's opinions I think pizza is garbage, but I'm not saying that that is 100% true But Look there has been like throwback Thursday before controversy Monday, right? So it's like it's not like you came up with the idea for a themed day Yeah, it's very much it's very much an established part of posting on various different websites archaeologists in fine Friday I'm not saying you can't have it day. I'm just saying making it exactly the same as controversy Monday, but on Wednesday is bad I mean, I'm not exactly different. I understand that it's just I think saying that Funko pops are perfect is It's a very good day take that's perfect I didn't say that I said they are good Listen, I would not police your social media posting you can you can say what you want But cake and also say what she wants and I'm staying out of it Which is like when I said it's wisdom Wednesday not recommendation went you need to have a fight to the death in the marketplace of ideas Yeah, that's what we're always doing Yeah, no, she constantly killing each other in the market base of ideas and then we're getting thrown in like market jail And then we're breaking out and then we're having fights again.
Everyone has it I do like that you don't take either case or my side. You just think we're both doing bullshit Thank you just both ruin the whole concept of the Monday to be fair the sanctity of controversy Monday have it has been ruined by K Way before this when she started like bringing up the eating muffin rappers thing on literally every single day But she's right though eating muffin rappers is really good and also also Chas is radical centrist, which is why she's not taking anyone's side. That's true I love hierarchies, but only when I'm on top Jazzy invented you invented controversy Monday, and you thought can we do controversy Monday rather than should we do? Controversy I really did the arrogance of man knows no No, you're gonna controversy Monday was just a funny joke about circumcision and it's just sort of I think it's good.
I think it's sort of like a purge, you know like in the movie the purge where everybody has that was the idea of it Yeah, everybody has to get all that all their controversial opinions out on the Monday And then after that again, you have your truth Tuesday and wisdom Wednesday, which are both days for objective facts And then you have horny Thursday through Sunday. No, sorry Sunday for the Lord Thursday Apes clawing at one another in the mud as I my face appears in the clouds and blue sky above and smiles down at you shaking my head gently I'm George and I don't have a Twitter account To speak about with the post With the drama you always need to know what's going on so that that's very suspicious to me I think you have a secret Twitter account Containing or controversies for Monday was never gonna work because people constantly be showing their asses online 24-7 Are you saying that the premise of the purge movies is is flawed? Movies were about how the purge is really good actually Works really well in the photos document to his eye I don't know jazz fell foul of a liberal fantasy that all of mankind's sins could be contained. That's true I was I was being too like religious.
I was being Christian I thought like I could I could put everyone sins into a Monday and then kill Monday and then all the sins would be dead But instead the sins just live on past Monday like released from that earthly form And I'm what you need what you need is a guy where we can put all of the sins in that one guy and then we just crucify him Hmm thoughts. I'm not volunteering You can't do this to me. Oh, we put a piece of bread on the chest of the the of the person who's got controversy And then some of these it yeah, and they have the controversy within them Or we put it in a goat and kick it out into desert We have to say this goat does not like pizza and then we have to shun it I think goats probably pizza Like plastic clothes Gods love human peace Like solving it. Yeah, salt.
Mm-hmm. I got attacked by a goat when I was very small and I think I deserve royalties from the vivitch Being attacked by Cow Like more people are killed by cows than like any other animal in the UK They're just very this was also something we talked about on like one of the first People got killed in Wales by water by last year I'm gonna pitch before we before we start right yeah, right so when I was right Okay, so I don't know what a water buffalo is and do not react yet This is because I was under the impression that they were birds because you can buy wings You can buy buffalo wings, okay, well you can also buy mozzarella de buffalo My bird to save my ass here by saying this is I went round to a friend's house when I was in maybe a seven So I'm 11 right I'm 11 years old and I'm saying to my friends isn't it crazy that you can buy like buffal wings because they're just those big Hulking cow things you get in America so at this point I thought they were mammals They were those big horn guys and then every single one of my friends decided somehow like psychically that they were gonna convince me that water buffalo Was a type of bird and that's why you could buy wings and they never stopped saying that years later They never stopped saying it and so I've been gaslit into believing that water buffalo are both the mammal and a bird But just to be clear just to be clear. It's the mammal right that's a big cows We need like a harrowing mumblecore movie where Lucy returns to her hometown and to like reckon with her past that she used to think Buffalo was kind of bird I'm already in my hometown. I just don't speak to those people anymore Never involved you just never leaving the house Tom's dying of laughter in the background I Also not know what a water buffalo is until like right now.
I didn't think it was a Buffalo was yeah, but I also Called water car which is like swimming underwater exactly I imagine something like that. It's not like a bird. It's not a sea like a They're extinct or a sea pig which is just like a sea cucumber. I thought I thought sea cars still exist You might you might call them sea cow in German maybe the sea cows we have in in English what we call a sea cow is extinct Oh, yeah, they are okay.
They all got hunted to extinction, but they were like really huge. Oh, yeah Yeah, there's simply like several types like yeah, manatees also. Yeah, I think yeah, I'm not I'm looking at manatee That's that's the thing that I was thinking of because Well, I don't think we could get the Western humanity or see cow I want to meet a manatee. They look really cute like just big balls of fat that kind of float around a gentle You may see manatee through the ocean, but one land.
I see my grandmother drinking a hot beverage and I'm like, oh, that's nanny tea Okay, I was all feeling shot Sometimes you are sometimes you're extremely funny. That's one of the least funny That was kind of intentional I was on purpose. I love that. This is on purpose.
I'm fine I've never seen an amenity in real life I have seen sea lions which are not as big and I was still shocked at how very very large sea lions are so big They are a line they're like I feel like the ones I saw were like two and a half meters three meters long I could be wrong because again I was small when I saw them, but they were huge. They look at really big and elephant seals get even bigger They're like terrifying I'm looking at some cows and I found one that makes like a mean face That's just a seal I love him This sea lion replies to Elon Musk This sea lion this sea lion sea lion. Oh my god. See you on musk It pops up inside caves to scare divers and call some feet of fire Okay, this is a great place for us to okay, listen It's fine I'm gonna bring a snack man style three two one another disc world Which once again features one of the more familiar characters of this world Samuel Vines Sound mind The most exciting doesn't save the world what he does do is give the world time to save itself, which is very much more They're a different way of doing things Sam Vines is not giving you a few keys It's absolutely right the sound mind Holy And This was a good thing Mind find yourself in the same circumstances Now I Welcome to watch this world podcast where we read this world books and or watch this world related media I'm your host chat and my brain is so big that I have swapped into dimensionally with the worst version of myself But fortunately that version is so similar to me that apart from having a small mustache.
We're pretty much identical So you won't notice anything different I'm your host Lucy and I was simply born bad I Know In another dimension. I'm just like fucking I don't know I was trying to make a joke here about About something Compute in another dimension. You're cool. Am I right?
You prepare your introduction I was gonna say something about about the way character was in this episode But I just can't even put it into words it's you love to be a prison camp guard in another dimension And another dimension I would let walk out I'm just like straight out of character from Starship troopers George to me I'm obviously the introduction So you're sort of fucking up into languages that's pretty good So averages out as just like a normal a normal introduction It averages out as perfect wickish. So we're coming into this episode in a like a highly competent state you'd say like Well, we're here We're ready to talk because like now I go I had like a pretty clear idea about like things that happened in this episode and things that I Want to talk about and I'm just fully blocking Dude, I can't remember anything. It's like when you get into an argument and then an hour later You're like damn I should have said these great things. Yeah, except that you're going through time in reverse So you like you like as time goes on you're like losing all the good things Like arguing with none of the bad bits but sometimes you're also arguing it Also, you're like wow and jony.
They love to eat your meat. Um, anyway Today we are talking about the watch episode seven I believe Is that mean there's one left Nowhere in the multiverse nowhere In the multiverse, okay, well, I hope you remember what happened last episode because that like Look two things that matter from last week's episode. Um one that truly has a beard now. Yeah, and the second thing that matters is that Fucking carrot is feeling more before like 10 seconds about not having royal blood.
I'm not sure what karat was doing for this episode I'll be honest with you. I think that karat is a bad character and what he was used for in this episode is probably like the best use of his character Is a currently stand which is just a like big plot background stuff I really don't think I could I could assign any personality traits to him. Um other than he loves to do walk around He does he loves to do what's just falling orders. He loves he loves he loves to follow orders and um, he's tall Um, yes What we learn is karat is purely a product of the society in which he lives and has an innate moral character Apart from that of following the rules.
He's hacked from south Yeah Yeah, he's also kind of like he'd be from like a terrigillium's brazil or something like that So what a top so should we do we want to do initial impressions or we should we get into the episode? I don't know if I have initial impressions I think I think that'll come to me because I I also finished this episode and was like what I want to say about this But I think it's one of those things where if I keep talking it'll come out. Yeah, I hope so I will hope you remember what happened in the episode It's already fading initial impressions. I will say I do think cherry with a beard is pretty hot So I I don't I don't really get about you.
Yeah, because I just really I think I think Joe is genuinely one of the best parts of the show Yeah, sure. And I really enjoy their acting throughout it. So um, cheerfully. It's still a big old thumbs up I think I think my impression of this episode is that it's um, it's not like offensively bad like like episode five was But also it's like for what it could have like could have been on paper.
It's pretty nothing like in In ways that I think like last week's episode we had a lot to say Critically, but at least that episode was like really swinging for it. Yeah, this one. I don't know I think it was kind of funny and I think the main plot um, you know, the sort of main series plot isn't particularly compelling Yeah, um, but I thought this sort of minor bits to this. I thought we're quite funny I liked all the sort of vines he shept because I like vines.
I like his actor and I like seeing him do things. Yeah, so um And I you know that was like a sort of plot twist with the badge and stuff, but you know Actually, I know I say I did like the badge thing because I will say one of the things that is not so good in tarry's Is the idea of genuine hereditary royalty like genuine royal blood It's like a bad concept to me. Yeah, I like that in this it's Not that Yeah, because in terry's writing like kings and stuff they have like powers to their blood right they have like natural charisma and stuff Yeah, which yeah, but at least he kind of undercuts it as well with carrot rejecting it entirely. Oh, yeah I mean, but he would jack said but he still has the abilities of being natural king.
Yeah, it's a weird one. It's uh, you know Not sure what he what he feels about that. He's like his blood is good though. Isn't it's kind of good Isn't it kind of good that he's gonna be king.
Um, the one ruler. Um, it's a good thing. He's a nice guy. Um, I do like I mean the thing is in this carrot definitely doesn't have any natural charisma Yes, but maybe that's I mean, he's not really a king either.
So that's sort of it's sort of like boy. Isn't it? Yeah, it's like naturally uncorroismatic almost He's naturally just a little boy who does what he's told. Yeah Okay, let's let's get to it.
Let's get to it. Okay, so He started with the previously on in which we learned that vibes is the perfect leader because he doesn't want to lead which we discussed at the time We see anyone skimmer and knight and vimes vibes lets him out after like some sort of weird fucked up villain speech I don't know we hear something about king voltic. He was wearing the watch badge when he died. Huh interesting What the fuck does this say in my notes?
Something about justice Vimes lets skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer skimmer I think Okay, okay. He lets him go um and ladies eyeball get super mad about it because she's like like, oh he killed my parents, I want him to be in prison, five ever. LADY said that, like, what if the prison industrial complex was more? She's like, what if more prisoners?
What if I love it, actually? Yeah. She does love it. And Vimes is like, if you go after him, I will have to arrest you.
If you keep doing all your vigilante shit, I'll have to arrest you because it's a crime, and I'm the policeman, and she's like, okay, and they have an argument, and then she leaves. We cut to Carcer, and he's like, okay, I'm gonna swap the Vimes. So we see Vimes, like, drinking, and there's some, you know, some observer shit, or the, the cases are all moving around, what do we call it? The lockers.
That's it. Vimes is cabinets. The filing cabinets are all moving around, one of them eats him, and then he gets swapped with evil bad guy Vimes. He's just Vimes who's in prison.
I don't actually think he's like that. He's pretty much as good. He's the worst version of Vimes, it's just a guy. The worst version of Vimes is not a cop, so like...
Yeah, he's scared and brutalized. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Oh my god. A red guy.
No, because, because like, if we just look at it, like, the worst version of Vimes is just, just like, three percent wackier than the Vimes. He's just crazier. He's not like evil. I guess it's just, I guess it is suggesting that maybe Vimes that we have is like, not that far off the worst Vimes, but also like...
I think that, yeah. Well, and like, I think Richard Dormer does do a good job of acting different car Let's, let's, let's, um, Jack Sparrow. They do say that and they're like, yes, I act more pirate, which I did think was very funny. I did like that.
I did like it anyway. So, yeah, I can, I see one to Dondacroda. So we cut to the mended drum and there's like a cool punk band, and we see Carrot, and he is communing with a hot vampire called Sally. Now, is that what he's doing?
We can get into the set of that. I'm not sure. I really have no idea what this scene was. She was either trying to eat him or shag him.
I can't tell it. I think both. Well, that's the thing with vampires. It is usually both.
Yeah. So she's like, you want to do role playing? And then she was like, is this a cat girl? I was like, is this a nephita of this quilt?
Um, that's a homestuck thing. I thought that was like some ASMR role play thing, I don't know. But she's revealed to be Sally, like from later watch books, I guess, which makes sense if you've read the later watch books, but yeah, I have not. And I was just like, oh, a vampire lady.
I mean, she's different. She's just different. She's just different. She's like, let's have sexy time.
You seem hot. Come hang out. And then they talk about noble blood. She's like gone.
What is she? And bring him back. She tries to mind control them and she's like, let's dance. And then he literally dances and she's like, God damn it, that's too literal Sally.
Oh, let's see. I didn't even understand that she was trying to mind control him. I honestly know that a vampire diaries to recognize compulsion. Oh, I see.
Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's bad. Let's dance to him. No, she liked.
She liked mind controlled, compelled him. And I think she wanted him to like, you know, get down with it. Yeah, I thought she just wanted him to get down like, consensually. Yeah, no, I don't think so.
No, no, no, no, no. One of those, one of those things where it, I did it. It's one of those things I like in any fantasy story, you've got to have someone who has both mind control or a love potion. And one of those things has to be used without thinking about it and just completely unaddressed.
So an interesting move from the show, but but Carrot is just down since then it's fine. He's like, Oh, noble blood. I guess that means that the whole octuron thing must be in Lady Sibyl's blood. Like I also didn't understand that being too literal makes you immune to mind control.
Is that like a thing? I like that though. I like that. That's kind of funny.
Yeah, I thought that was good. You know, if you tell someone to dance and you mean it in a sexual way, but you know, you literally have said let's dance and also someone has a true as Carrot. He's just going to dance. Yeah, because I just understood it as like, because she says like something like a support group for virgins or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah. I thought it's like, Oh, hey, you look like a virgin. I'm a virgin.
Let's let's all lose our virginity. Let's dance. We're just going to dance into it, but he's not or something. Well, they just doesn't understand that she's being sexy at him.
When they doing what we do in the shadow style joke about vampires loving virgin blood. I mean, that's a classic, isn't it? Vampires love virgins. Yeah, but if they do, then she wouldn't want to fuck him because like she didn't want to unvirgin him.
That's very true. I mean, she can drink him and then have sex with him. Yeah. We know nothing about the vampire lore of the show.
Like we have a vampire introducing episode seven out of eight and that's as far as I can tell five of screen time, it's gonna be like the entire amount of vampire lore in this show, so I don't know. I mean, there were some vampires in the Twilight canyons, but they were just there. Oh, yeah. They weren't doing anything, they were just sort of walking around.
It's sort of like a background sort of colour thing, I guess. It's not like that important, I think. Hmm. Anyway, Karak are like...
You can't get rid of the scene where they list all of the different fantasy residents. Yeah. And this is the race less intelligent than the rest of them. Oh, no.
We cut to Vimes, who has been transported into an alternate dimension, where he is in prison with... Is he the thieves guild guy? Yeah. Oh, is he?
Bugs? I have trouble remembering faces. Oh, no, this one built Bailey. I saw him in a different outfit and I was like, do not understand this.
I also didn't remember which guild he belongs to, I just remember it was that guy from earlier. Yeah, he's ahead of the thieves guild. I do, he gets like, implanted by the assassins and also by Karak. I really like the prison costumes in this.
They're very funny. They're really good, I'm sorry, I think they're really stylish. Absolute drip in the prison. Literally, yes.
It's a look, I think. I like the prison uniforms. They like stitched together almost. They've got like yellow bits.
Yeah, I like them. I like it. We're told this is the Tanti prison. And the only thing that's kept, the alternate version of Fine Sane is Mr Hand, which is a, it's Bog's hand, which has got a face tattooed on it and it talks to him.
It's cool. Also, we see Karak, who is a prison guard, and he wears sandals all the time and finds his hand. And he's like a gross middle part of it. Yeah, he's got like a Nazi middle part of it.
Normal. We can't take Vimes. He's so funny. He's so funny in this.
I mean, he definitely gets to do more than normal characters. Yeah. Well, he gets to play a character here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right. It's wild that I could see this. It turns out this actor can do stuff if he gets material. Yeah.
Yeah. But he gets to be a sort of prison guard because he loves to follow all his. So I guess he would just do Fash's em if people asked him too. So that's cool.
And mine is like, some things never change or something. Yeah. And he's like internally a fascist. He would do whatever.
So you can't solve it before carrot? I thought you were going to be like the compassionate Vimes who cares for people in your watch who would be terrified to see carrot be a fascist. But apparently all you think of him is the pushover. But also there's a bit where I'm sure that Karsa tells fake Vimes that carrot thinks of him as like a father.
And I'm like, is that true? I feel like we've not seen that. That could just be um. It could be Karsa lying.
You are like true. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. This is an interesting episode in some ways.
I'm going to walk around to it later. Um, yeah, we got to Evil Vimes who has been transported into the normal world that we are familiar with. And he's searching for Mr. Hand, who's his comfort person.
And he's very confused. He's in the watch house. Carrot is explaining that Lady Ramkin is probably the only noble blood left. And so maybe she can control the dragon when using the artifacts and stuff.
And Greg gets mad because he smells like vampire and she doesn't like vampires because she's a werewolf. And she's all like freaked out by it. Vimes runs away. Evil Vimes.
I think we can say evil Vimes because it's not evil at all. He's not evil, but it's like sure hand. What am I meant to say? Alternate Vimes?
Other Vimes? Prison Vimes. Electric Boogling. Good Vimes, bad Vimes.
Uh, Wolfy Vimes. It was the worst Vimes. Alternate Vimes runs away. Uh, we cut back to original Vimes.
And he's been sent to meet the beast in a sort of like Star Wars episode six sent into like, you know, Jabba's Palace sort of stuff. Yeah, the drop them into the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but it's just a triteus.
And he's like, oh, the triteus I missed you. I love seeing you. And he's just beating the shit out of Vimes. He's like, I missed you so much.
I just wrote Vimes loves it. We cut to Carcer. Uh, Vimes is... Alternate Vimes meets Carcer.
Carcer's like, oh, it's me, Carcer. Your friend. And he's like, Carcer, I missed you. You're so great.
And then he hugs him, which I thought was like nice. Yeah. What if you just call it alternative Vimes vibes? Vibes.
Okay. Okay. Sand vibes. He's like vibes.
I want you to breathe your free air and they both breathe the air and start coughing because it's like more puk and the air isn't that fresh. So it's a bit like gross. I wrote here just carrot dot dot dot makes you think. I guess that's about how this vibes is like, uh, carrot.
He used to be the worst prison guard when I was in Tanti and now he works for me. That's so weird. It's like, almost as if he hasn't really changed careers between these two chops. Yeah, they're not that dissimilar to be honest.
No, it's a sort of lateral movement. Yeah. He's just less jolly in this one. Yeah.
Literally the only difference between the two Vimes is that one of them had the misfortune of ending up in jail. Mm-hmm. I mean, I guess that's sort of the point I guess. Yeah.
And then it'd be Vimes in this universe who commands the watch. He went out more like a pirate. I do think it's funny. And he's like, oh, in this universe, carrot will do whatever you say.
You can just tell him to stop and he'll just do it. So he yells at him and carri does what he said, even though he can only hear his disembodied voice. I don't know what I thought was funny. He's a puppy.
He's a labrador. Yeah. He tells Carcer that Lady's double-ramp kin is the artifact because he heard Carrot talking about it. And Carcer's like, oh, okay.
We'll come back to original Vimes and he's talking to alternate universe detritus who speaks to the stone and is like, oh, you're from a different universe, multiverse, whatever reality. Talking about transition stone. Start speaking stone. This stone is my grandmother.
And then they're like, oh, in my universe, Striders is like my best friend. I love him so much. And he's like, oh, I'll help you. Oh, shit.
The triders in your universe is dead. That's upsetting. And Vimes is like, yeah, he died doing his job. He was my bestest friend I ever had in the entire universe.
He saved my life so many times. It's very meaningful, except we didn't see a lot of that originally. We saw him interact for like five minutes in the first episode. And then the trides in died for months.
We know about him stopping by and killing himself. He's very best friend. I don't know. I would have loved to see that relationship unfold in the first few episodes if you want to kill him.
But it's fine. I just love when characters say you're my best friend and we have no indication of it. When we're told from exposition cues or whatever that character's are friends but we don't see that. Yeah.
I don't hate the fact that, uh, I don't know. The way we're game of thrones where like various dies and Tyrion is like he was my best friend. But they have literal like many, many episodes together before that. And even then it was unconvincing.
I guess it's more realistic to be told that someone's your best friend. If we only see you like interact with 10 minutes then seeing people interact for like six seasons and not really seeing that. And then being told that they're best friends. They're best friends if they make dick jokes in each other.
That's the only thing that matters. I believe that I'm not my best friend. I mean, that is me. So we cut back to once and cast one says created a device that can measure whether something has Octoron in it by creating silence.
Because as we know from the books, like they've got that bell made of Octoron and when it rings it rings silent rather than noise. So it creates like sort of negative noise. Okay, I'm going to be honest. I didn't really understand how this worked.
I was like, is the high pitch noise the Octoron or is it the silence? So I was just kind of going with whatever the character said at the time. Which is probably a fault of my attention. No.
You know, I don't think it was. I think it sort of depends on you knowing the books better. I am not a true gamer. I was like, well that's fine.
I didn't think it communicated very well. I just didn't care. I was like, okay fine, that makes a noise cancellation noise or whatever or a BP noise or whatever. It's fine.
That's what it needs to do really. Yeah. I don't think it needs to completely make 1000% sense. It's fine.
It's a plot device. Yeah, we cut to original universe watch. And I was saying that there's something up with Vimes because he's been wearing demon rum, Cologne ever since they met Sible. So she's like, well, he doesn't smell like demon rum, Cologne.
So that's kind of weird. Why is he suddenly stop wearing the Cologne? Demon gum. Demon, demon gum.
That's our ultimate retreat. Okay. We're really just doing our best for our audience, I think. Yeah.
Don't say that we don't care about you, but we do. Sorry. You came about my audience. I think about them all the time.
Every night before going to sleep, I'd say a prayer for every single one of our audience. I mean, I do, but for unrelated reasons. Just because I worry about them. When I go to the black mass every Sabbath and sacrifice a check in with his only a banks.
And boil up some cat bones. I say a little backwards prayer in Latin for all of you good listeners out there. I appreciate it. That makes sense.
Yeah. We go back to alternate universe, prison, Vimes, our Vimes in prison universe. And to try to just help him escape by knocking a hole in a window, it hasn't helped him escape the prison, just the pit that he's in. And he says something about, I'll see you again, because Stone speaks stone or something.
Stone remembers something. I don't know if this is going to be a last episode thing where he comes back from the dead. I thought what was going to happen was that they were going to do a baby group with that little bit of detritus to be so high where he was going to grow back from it. Yeah.
Which I like to try to certainly be nice to see more of him. But equally, I don't think we will, because I don't think this is going to care renewed. Yeah. Anyway, Vimes is leading the original watch down like a tunnel and he's like, oh, it's this way.
Come on, everybody. And then they go down there and he locks them up into like a room. I'm not sure where this is. Where is this?
It's in the time to be frozen, but in the normal, I'm more focused on it where it's sort of a market, but the building still exists. Okay. Okay. I did not pick that up.
It says it on the wall and they do remark upon it, but it's not that kind of. Yeah. It got like built but never used after the king was his name was killed. Yeah, Valtic.
Yeah. So they get locked up in there and they're like, oh, shit, he's betrayed us and care it's like this is against regulations. We cut back to original Vimes in the prison and he's talking to Bogus and he's like, oh, we're going to escape. He's like, you got to ask Mr.
Hand if you want to be in on it and he's like, Mr. Hand, are we going to escape? And he's like, all right, slag. I thought it was funny.
It's good. He's like, well, to get through it to Jeffrey, we need the wardens hand. That's the only way to get out. Do you use the wardens hand and the wardens sibble and this involves her putting her hand through a slot and then the goblin on the other side and then up to the door, which I did think is very good.
Now see, this was a great visual joke. I liked this a lot. Yeah. That was a genuinely good bit of humor.
That's nice. Yeah. That was pretty good. I like that.
We cut back to the gang and Death is paying them a visit and he's like, oh, I want to know who is going to eat who first so I can make my schedule in order and make it make sense. And Carrot's like, oh, this guy, I know this guy, he loves me. I'm going to come in with him. So he's like, oh, can't you give us a bit of help?
You know, can't you just let us out or something? Death is like, oh, I might help you but first you go listen to my, like, I have a glass there and then song about being Death. And it really like, okay. It's pretty good.
It's flapped hard. Yeah, that was very good. I liked this bit and I personally would have wanted to join Death's fans. I would have stayed there and I would have said, hey, Death, I love this.
I want to hear more of from you. Can I be in your band? Can I please play an instrument or perhaps join you in the call and response on stage? Yeah, everyone was acting like everyone was acting like, we're just going to have to watch the performance song.
It didn't need to be 27 minutes long. Fuck off. It was great. I would have listened to this for 50 minutes.
It's pretty long for a song. Okay. I think it could have been cut down to about three and a half. No, I've listened to Sufian, Steven's album, Age of Ours and there's a 25 minute song on there and no one is good.
It's good. It's one of my favorite songs. Love Cats, Ethan. I'd love to put on Godspeed, you Black Emperors, Classic, Adam, Lift Your Skin If It's Like, and Tenors to Heaven and every track is like 30 minutes long.
It's a good album but I think Death is a bit less interesting. You don't know because we don't know. We don't know. I mean, we hear the last bit and it's the same as the...
Yeah, it's like something to pick up in the middle. Yeah, it's all conjecture because we don't get to hear the rest of the songs. I think the joke relies on us assuming that the song stayed rather the same throughout. Yeah.
But we don't know if that's a very amount of change. No. Okay. But I think you're supposed to, you should at least try to take the jokes with good faith, you know.
Just because some of us don't listen to Sufian, Steven. Whatever Cats, Stevens is calling himself. I get that, George. Like, I get that's what the joke in the show is supposed to be blah, blah, blah, blah.
But yeah, not Hate's joke. No, I'm also like engaging with the show on a level of, okay, but what if, like, you know, cutting out something means that the rest is left up to your imagination, right? Like, that's the point of there being like a cut. So it can be anything.
I'm going to start with a YouTube channel where I come up with theories about what could have been in those 25 minutes that were cut between the beginning and the ending of the song. And it's going to be very popular because people are like... I will like Sharon to describe your videos. Nice.
This is exactly like that post of images that's like how normal people see the world and how creative people see the world. And the other show, the creative people. Thank you. And George is the normal people.
And I'm fine with that. Creatively Miss Reading and Joe Conquers. Yeah. I mean, I just think it's started out so good that he can't be like, you can't tell me that the rest is just like that same bit.
I mean, it is made by another world being who has pretensions towards humanity and never fully resolved within this show. I mean, in the book, we don't know what to, I feel like show death is different. Like, I feel like show death could come up with a bang into your book. The book death wouldn't even have been able to come up with this one.
I want to hear death do...so we all know that Kanye West on Monster. Of course. I want to hear...I don't. Okay, well you're missing out on kind of.
See, Jay-Z has a terrible verse on that. Yeah. And I think, what if... Says Quarch Gods and...
Lothness. King Kong. Lothness. King Kong, yeah.
Um, he just left some on...anyway, Jay-Z's verse on this one. So what I'm proposing is that we get death. I'll be with no conscience. I prefer Jay-Z to the British tributo.
Everybody wants to know what my Achilles heel is. Love. I would get enough of it. Anyway, it's a terrible, terrible verse and people don't talk about it.
That's not to Nicky's verse. Nicky's verse is good. Yeah, Nicky's verse is great. That's why people like to look at it.
Anyway, I think we should get death to replace Jay-Z. But just on this track. Yeah. Yeah.
I've seen this like the way like fucking Tumblr discord or like people like fanfic talk about alternate versions but like show exclamation mark death. You think you would love Nicky Minaaj. Yeah, I'm sorry. Anyway, comical misinterpretations of jokes aside.
We cut back to the prison where our original bones is seeing Sibyl who is the warden and she's talking about the blood in the badge which is all that's left of King Voltric and everyone's chanting it and it's very normal. That sounds like a bones episode title. It does. Yeah.
We cut back to our gang again who are in the prison still and we just get the end of death song which seems to be the same as it was beginning whether or not it was different in the middle we will never know. So that's up to your interpretation as the viewer. That's no list of those. Caracal set a stadium banger.
He's like oh you could have the radio at it. I can't realize that they can use the bed springs and she's like oh we can use the stuff that's here to escape. We find out that Vibes has been in the Tanty for 20 years on and off which is pretty depressing. Caracal is like to stay in this universe you've got to kill someone.
It's a matter of survival and he's like I don't want to kill someone. And he's like well you've got to kill Sibyl for some reason because he says so. Yes. But don't they need her to control the dragon because they think she's got that artifact.
They don't know that yet. They told them that she was. What he's trying to do with his ultimate goal is to do what the observers asked him to do which was to kill Lady Sibyl. Yeah okay that makes sense actually.
I don't really want to. I've never killed anyone. I just do small crimes and he's like well you've got to do it. Wait do they want Sibyl to be killed?
Because I think then it makes Vimes Joker and then if Vimes is Joker then he can't stop Caracal because he's Joker and he won't do the hopeful things he's going to do in the future. Oh yeah I see the prophecy. But we're not actually sure yet why. Because Caracal keeps saying what he's going to do.
It's like for 19 something. Yeah but we're not sure of the full extent of the plan and the reasons behind why the observers want him to kill Sibyl. No. Which is good at the pentagon.
I'm not a man about that. Maybe Sibyl should be killed. I don't know. She's not my favorite character.
Yeah she wasn't my favorite character a few weeks ago and this episode did nothing to make me like her more. So the watch manages to break through the wall using a device that Cherry has created. In the original reality Vimes, sorry Vimes is talking to Carcer. And he's telling him that in their universe it was sort of the other way round than in this universe.
It was actually Vimes who was hanging off the edge of the tower and Carcer pulled him up and then arrested him rather than letting him fall. And now Carcer is captain of the watch and Vimes is in prison and Carcer is like a bit disconcerted by this. He's like I don't know how to feel. How come I helped him up and he didn't help me up.
That's a bit weird. And he starts thinking about what it means to be good and what it means to be bad and whether or not that's real or whatever. Yeah I sort of wanted to talk about this episode and morality and the concept of good and bad people because I think it's very interestingly here in a way that I don't think I agree with but it might need more fleshing out. Yeah.
Because there's like not to pull away from the summary too much but once after Vimes vibes has settled that then Carcer and once sort of talking to each other and he said like okay but if Vimes is good then surely what I've been doing is bad and it's like this cannot be like the like not conceit. This can't be the conclusion of the show that Vimes is good and Carcer is bad because Jesus Christ. I don't think so because I think what happens is once thinks that maybe that's true because she sees that the Octorund detector is going off when Vimes is nearby and she's like maybe it's because he's inherently like noble. But then that's not true because that's under cut by like what's actually possibly it's reacting to which is the badge.
Okay but then you're conflating nobility with good which is not true. It's not like a thing. I think that's like nobility as having noble blood being true that's disproven. But at the same time still like Vimes being inherently good in all universes seems to still be a thing.
He refuses to kill Sible because he can't. In both universes even with a Sible that we don't know that sort of Sible will call her. It's also interesting because if you think about their characters as being like the victims of fate or systems or whatever like the fact is that this Vimes didn't pull Carcer up which seems wrong and that led to Carcer becoming what he is now whereas the reason that he managed to become less evil than the other universes that Carcer did arrest him rather than letting him. But the thing is like so in a normal universe Vimes doesn't pull him up and Vimes is good and Carcer is bad and in the alternate- I'm not sure that's true.
Okay okay it's flawed but in the alternate universe you have- so okay so in the normal universe all that happens Vimes becomes captain of the watch and Carcer becomes a- within the- within the constructions of the show at criminal and then in the alternate universe you have Carcer sorry Vimes vibes. It's so confusing to talk about. Carcer pulling Vimes up but then arresting him and imprisoning him for 20 years. Yeah and it gives him that alternate Carcer fantastic skin.
Oh really good and really good hair. That's really good. Really good hair. But yeah he was very attractive anyway but he's also like you know it's him imprisoning Vimes for 20 years and you know creating like a supermax prison.
Which I just can't get over how that's supposed to be the worst version of Vimes. That's not that can't be. I'm thinking now that it might be the worst version. The people who phrased it as being the worst version of Vimes were Carcer and once.
What the I think what the observer said was the version of Vimes that was like they might get to kill Sibyl. So you could read that as like the observers don't really have an understanding of morality I think. So it's the most vulnerable though. The most desperate and bruiser version of Vimes.
Honestly he doesn't do anything bad he's desperate and then turns away. Ultimately he sort of has enough moral strength and like belief in the value of life to not do something. He's not killing someone at his own expense. I still feel like that's a good read.
I like this read. But I don't think this is what the show is trying to say. I'm honestly not sure what they're trying to say. This read would make sense but then it should have communicated that somehow.
Because as it stands it just says the worst version of Vimes is the one that got imprisoned 20 years ago for being a petty criminal. And that's because the worst version of yourself is always the one who goes to jail because jail is a objective fan. Jails and nationality are being morally wrong. Would you be in jail if you were back?
Oh yeah if I'd ever committed a crime which I've never done I'd be in jail because I'd be morally wrong. It's got nothing to do with my social status or I'd also make a decision. I'd never committed a crime or housing status. I'm white.
I'm near brain ass worthy of wearing drugs. You're doing drugs you're immoral. That's true. Drugs they're bad because the government says so.
So and they're bad when homeless people do them but when me and my friends do. That's just fine. Yeah when me and my friends are drugs that's fine. That's normal but god I would never give a homeless person money because what if we spent it on drugs?
Could you imagine? That's illegal. I do think drugs are morally fine. If we started arresting innocent mill wall fans for me and for cane possession and dignity.
Like fuck what would that 1984 style world be telling you? That's like that. We've got to lock up all of those young men in chicken shops. Hey.
No that's not it. There are no racial connotations there at all. No none. I'd love to read the book 1984 by George Orwell.
I don't think drug laws have anything to do with racism. I don't believe that criminalization of drugs happens almost entirely because of racism. That seems weird. How could that be true?
Anyway let me have this. I literally described everything that's going on in your life. It's crazy. Oh my god.
It really does. It's like I opened the book and it's like Lucy went to go and enjoy a delicious tamale and cup of tea. Oh wait that's illegal. That's weird.
My copy of the book says Winston Smith says I am English and then he's immediately arrested and thoroughly endured. That's just what happens in 1984. Anyway what they were going to say is like one version of this in the show is that the first version that the show presents is the first version of Vimes is the one that is in jail which is cussed. But I don't even think that's what the show is trying to say but more like I think the final statement of it is going to be like well maybe there is no worst version of Vimes.
They said it earlier. The observer said there is no version of Vimes that would kill Sibil. At the end like even this one doesn't. So then what the show is saying is that this is like even the worst one is actually inherently good.
Yeah. I mean it's interesting because this whole premise is based on like some throwaway lines in Nightwatch where Vimes is like also there is alternate versions of me. Is there an alternate version of me that would ever kill Lady Sibil and the history monks are like no. Which is where this is sort of coming from as a premise which is interesting.
But I was having this thing with alternate versions where I'm like if there's infinite versions does that mean did they come from so someone on like a sort of quantum level is it random chance so like things that are completely randomized or choice basically I don't believe anyone would ever make a different choice. I don't think that you would make a different choice in split into alternate realities because I don't think that's how choice works. I think you would always make the same choice if it's not random. It's not like it's not like a choice based as in like distinctly making a choice but more like I don't know the way I see it is just like tiny fucking butterfly effects plates in that.
I don't know. A different version in which I did not at one point see at tweet by someone I followed recommending I draw just because I had a bunch of podcasts that didn't lead me to the whole like Pico universe that didn't lead me to then style the song. I'm probably didn't lead me to then like do this podcast. And that's just like happening to look at Twitter on that particular day.
In that way on Janoshe's trading Bitcoin. Yeah. I mean like the I think it's a nice way within the books and it's a nice way in the books of displaying their relationship and their affection for each other because it's a throwaway line. If you then base a 45 minute episode around it you do you do involve those situations of there are sort of as far as we can see in the auditors or the what are they called the observers sense they have an infinite number of filing cabinets and so you know you have if it's an infinite number of universes and you have ones where and more book doesn't exist you have ones where they never ever meet you I would say you would have a percentage where they do kill one another or like is it just an infinite it's like if the options are killing it's killing her not killing her then there is a 50% infinite like it's there's always going to be a chance but you know in the books if it's a throwaway line it's chill it's fine.
In the infinite worlds does it does it if you have an infinite number of versions of the same universe does that not imply that I mean where do you decorate the fact that these are supposed to be the same universe so there is some similarity between them all but if it is infinite then therefore you also need some of the universes to have absolutely no similarity with one another. Yeah. Yeah. I mean surely in some places vibes would be so distinct from this vibes that it wouldn't be relevant right?
Yeah. Yeah. That's sort of what I was trying to say. Yeah.
We're trying to work out what this 45 minute TV show eight episode says and we're now discussing the nature of infinity in the coming of the concept of the movie. Let's get on with the summary. Okay. I was just going to say I do think like in a larger context of the episode it is kind of a bummer house similar the other version or the other reality is to the like main reality right?
Like it's yeah there's just like really little differences of like I guess all the difference that one event checked out differently but like everything else is very similar it's also like a very similar looking world right? Yeah. I'm very excited for the next episode where Vimes after his stay in alternate dimension prison is going to be completely completely moving to prison people but in a different place. I just want to decide about him freeing skimmer I guess.
That's very true I could be wrong to be fair it was not him who imprisoned people. I'm just I'm running away with negativity today and I'm not sure why it would work because of my work. Me too. Me too.
I'm not really very positive so I'll play my own side and I'll have no allies but I'm used to it so it's okay. You're recommending being unemployed then. You know it does. I love to be unemployed.
You know it does love having prisoners in like all timelines at super. Oh yeah. Oh simple love there. Maybe you should kill someone.
I guess we'll get to it when we finish the episode summary but I do kind of wonder if like this message the ending of this episode kind of says that Vimes 3 in a prisoner was wrong. I hope so definitely has some stuff to say about prisons as institutions which we can get into after the story because I have more. Okay so speaking of prisons we head back to original Vimes he was having intensive arts and crafts. Vlogist is like I've been sharpening these scissors for ages and I'm going to swap them with the paper mash aces that look the same which I didn't think was pretty funny.
Karsar is here he is very fatherly and kind even though he runs the prison. It's got a nice hair. Everyone's like show the captain what you've been working on and they will show they're like what they call like paper dolls paper chains. I like paper chains.
They all show they're called paper chains and they're like Vimes show them your paper chains. I wrote Vimes cringe paper dogs so I'm connected to each other so it's very embarrassing. What does this say? Gross wall destiny device.
Not sure. Okay anyway Karsar and Vimes are hanging out outside Sibyl's house and Karsar's like you need to kill Sibyl. Vibes sorry this is the original universe. We had to Sibyl in her house and she's like damn I hate Vimes he's so annoying it was good to not be alone for a while though I liked having someone who I could talk to that was kind of like Vimes walks in and he's like hello and he's got like a knife and Sibyl's like oh hey it's so good to see you I'm so sorry that we thought I'm sorry and then he's like I'm gonna stab you and the jacket starts playing me and she's like don't worry it's just you from his...
And then they kiss and when they kiss she's like hold on you're not Vimes you taste wrong or whatever. She's like you don't taste a booze. Yeah she's like you don't taste alcoholic enough to be Vimes. It's gonna be here he's like I'm gonna kill you and complete my mission of killing you and your parents and stuff Sibyl shoots him in the leg.
They have like a fight and then we go to a thing where he's gonna he's like I gotta kill you and then we cut to original Vimes in prison and he's like I'm gonna kill the Warden who's also Sibyl and they have like a fight where they're both like oh we're gonna kill Sibyl and then does she do it on him or on the badge? I think once he uses her detector on the badge itself and that makes the signs silent which I the scene silent which I thought was cool. I thought that was like mmm dramatic. It was good it was good audio it was just I didn't understand it.
Yeah so the scenes are both silent and they're both like threatening Sibyl and they're both like gonna kill Sibyl and then neither of the Vimes can go through with killing Sibyl so ultimately it's a failure for the observers and because they can't do it they end up swapping back and once realises that the badge is actually made of Octoron and it's got the blood of fucking King... I said it earlier. It's got a sign of King Veltric which is what's got the Octoron in it and that's what's been setting off the alarm so it wasn't Vimes it was the badge. Yeah it's the symbol of being a cop.
Yeah it's got blood on. I'm like a simple cop no. Once it takes it, Skenna just sort of drops out the window which is kind of funny and Vimes is like oh the blood in the badge that makes sense. They were talking about it in the other universe and it must refer to the badge and the blood on the badge.
The rest of the watch catches up and they're like he's not the real Vimes he's an imposter and he's like no he is mine I mean he's our Vimes. They talk about the last King's blood being on the badge and the blood is what they need to bring all the relics together. Karate's surprise because he's not born better than everyone else. Yeah which means Karate has everything that he needs to like control the dragon and then he brings all the stuff together and it shakes and is dramatic and stuff and that's what the episode ends.