Okay, we got a friend of the show Jordan Harbinger is here Jordan. How you doing man? Thanks for having me on man I'm just chillin self-isolating, you know the huge we are all isolating But I like I appreciate you dropping in on the show to parachuting in just for a couple minutes That was fun to have you you know This is a crazy time 20 20's been a crazy year We got coronavirus and we also had you know the sad tragic passing of Kobe Bryant who was a guest on your show How did that happen? How do you get Kobe?
Yeah, you know it was funny as I was pitching a publicity team for a different guest that I can't even remember now Because he was about 1% as famous as Kobe Bryant and they booked it and it was like some comedian Which I of course was really excited about they booked it and they canceled it I got really annoyed and I said well would you consider interviewing Kobe Bryant instead and I said yeah, of course I would consider that let's do that so we set it up and I flew down to Kobe's office and went over there and hung out for a while and Did the interview right there and it was it was incredible is a really interesting experience to be there with his team as well for that day and Honestly, it was probably September of 2019. So the timing was was interesting You know me I asked him all kinds of questions that had nothing to do with basketball including about creativity business hiring and firing because you wonder How a guy like Kobe Bryant decides who to hire and how he lets people go I don't know if I'd want to be on the wrong side of him and I did end up asking him about His life and what he's gonna do for his second act and if he ever creepily I asked him if he ever thinks about what he's gonna do if he were gone because he has kids and he was really really honest in the interview He was really really straightforward and I admire that it was a really good interview in my opinion Yeah, that is intense high stakes interviewing as to say the least and was he like an idol of yours before you did the interview? No, man, honestly, I look who doesn't love watching basketball, but I wasn't even I'm just not a fanboy of athletes in general So it was a great unique opportunity, but I wasn't nervous because of that I was more nervous because you just never know if You know, I was gonna screw up so I was more nervous like make sure it's recording than I was nervous to be sitting in front of Kobe Bryant Honestly, he's so he was so friendly and unassuming and not very loud in fact We've had audio issues recording because we're like hey, we gotta turn him up really high and I said you're really quiet He goes, yeah, I'm just not a loud guy man And I was like oh my god I'm gonna be loud for like the next 45 minutes So it was a really unique experience I'll be thankful for that for a long time to come that is amazing You know we started this show we were doing the interview style thing and I made a bucket list of wishlist of all the guests that I would want You know Kobe was on there and when I look at your show and I've been going up and plowing through the archive of episodes that you got You've had a bunch of them so you've had Tony Hawk You've had Kobe Bryant who was the other awesome episodes that people should check out if they if they do binge your show like I'm doing Sure Yeah, howie Mandel was really good the comedian He he was very open about things like mental illness and how he doesn't shake people's hands I've had Dennis Rodman Malcolm Gladwell, and I also had Frank Abigail Which a lot of people haven't heard about or from but he's at the catch me if you can Is the catch me if you can guys So he's the real guy that was played by Leonardo DiCaprio And we talked about the psychology behind how he was able to trick so many people and now he teaches of course FBI and intelligence agencies How that's done as well That is amazing. So if you're one of the listeners to the show who Misses when we used to do the interviews and bring in guests Well, this is this is my recommendation for you you should go check out the Jordan Harbor show He's got tons of interviews from guests that we were you know hoping to one day have on our show He's already had him on check him out on iTunes on Spotify wherever you can find it Jordan.
Appreciate you guys always dropping in on Show. Yeah, thanks for having me on guys We're on we're back. What's up me and Sam are here Sam You wrote something at the top of this I want to hear what you have to say which is people's reply about what we talked about last time Thrasia. Let's jump in with that.
All right. You want to I'm gonna read just word for word I have it pulled up on my Twitter, okay, you ready? I'm not gonna read the guy's name he goes. I'm a modest size mid-seven figure Amazon seller and a network of guys that range from One to two million to probably 50 million plus me a few guys in our network that actually sold their company to throw out How do you call it?
Thrasio Thrasio Thrasio I'm happy to chat about Amazon e-commerce sometime. Okay, so I'm gonna read his replies now for those of you listening The background is is that on Tuesday Sean and I talked about Thrasio. It's a company that raised money. They raised 100 200 million at a 750 valuation I don't remember close to 100 million at a 700 Big company you can there only two years old there and what they're doing is buying Amazon fulfillment and filled by Amazon company fulfilled by Amazon companies and they are Making the brains better and just owning them.
They're doing a bunch of stuff And so I had a guy reach out to me and he said I go that's great. Tell me what's the I asked him? What's the cash flow situation like where most guys sub ten million dollars? They're probably working with zero to a handful of us employees still actively involved in the day-to-day large team in the Philippines and Cheap locations and are probably netting between 10 to 20 percent a year And and so the typical size for three to five million the typical size is three to five million in revenue And they're probably pulling in five hundred two million dollars a year for themselves But the problem is is that it's getting harder and harder in 2013 You could sell almost anything and scale seven figure business now.
They're a lot more dominant more sophisticated players It's incredibly hard to enter in the business The Amazon algorithm is much smarter and it makes ranking incredibly expensive and difficult also Amazon treats their sellers like trash Just so it's kind of a mixed bag I could take a month and do nothing and let my team run it and it can go perfect or I can get an email tomorrow saying My account has been suspended or killed and I need a lawyer to reinstate everything or I'm just crushed so anyway Shawn I wanted to fill you in on this because I thought it was cool inside. Yeah, that's a good insight So a couple thoughts on that so the first is I think he's right, you know back 2013 2014 It was a lot easier to do it than it is today that seems consistent with what I've heard In fact, it seems like the formula is build a successful Amazon business in 2013 1415 Then start teaching other people how to do it because it's too hard to do anymore And so now you start giving away the sort of secrets and become a teacher right for the next three years So I think that's the career path right now The other thing that comes to mind we were talking I was talking to Andrew Wilkinson about this and he was saying he used the I think So I think it's a slightly monger quote, which is oh no It's a missing to leave quote, which is it's like picking up panties in front of a steamroller So there's a high probability you can make a little bit of money, you know consistently every single time you reach down You pick it up and then there's you know low probability of complete death And that's what he's talking about when he says you can get a letter tomorrow That says your account is suspended goodbye and that's it or Amazon cuts the rates of your cut category Like I have a friend who was doing millions of dollars of book sales as a third party bookseller on Amazon And then Amazon was like, you know what now or take rate on books has you know not 10% We're gonna do 25% things and I like killed the whole that happened to me that happened to me the other day So in our we are in the trends group Someone was like just you know Amazon changed the feet So basically I have various blogs like my personal blog or something like that And it makes just like small amounts of money like three to five thousand dollars a month off Amazon affiliates And I don't even check it It just runs because I've just written a lot of content over the years They changed their rate and someone told me in the group. I think it's it. I forget what I was earning I don't even check it.
I think I was earning 6% to 9% for affiliate revenue and then they changed it to they like have it So that money just half and it's no big deal because it wasn't it wasn't like a big income stream for me But if you're a wire cutter or if you're buzzfeed and you made a hundred million dollars from this, it's a huge deal Right. Yeah, that's what that 20% cut makes a really big difference. Okay. No, no, no, it wasn't it wasn't a 20% cut It was way bigger than that.
Okay, it was like half that half out and what category are your links mostly in electronics? Is it some cat is one category was across the board? They rate they lowered it across categories, but across the board it's close to half My categories were probably personal care and electronics. I mean just anyone who yeah or books a lot of books, right?
Okay, I want to know another topic. So we're good on brassia. You want to add anything else? No, do you not want to?
No, I think it's consistent with what we thought You know, I like when people fill in the gaps with information that we don't have right? I'm not a FBA seller I don't know the ins and outs of that market I just think it's interesting we talk a little bit about it and then people fill in the gaps in the next episode We come back a little smarter. That's a nice little formula we have going So I appreciate that if you know tell us more about what you know that we don't Before we go deep into serious stuff. Do you want to talk about?
I want to give you feedback that I got from from listeners Sean. You ready? Am I very for this? Is this harsh critical feedback?
I need to good. Okay, great. No, okay, so what I'm noticing with this podcast is we have a similar amount of views each week And I think it's the same people over and over. I think we're like part of people's routine Which is cool and the I think that one of the secrets to growing a podcast is you have to have guests So when we had Andrew he shared it So all the people who like him came in listen And I hope you've got him hooked and they're gonna listen from now on and so the way that we're gonna do this is we're just gonna get more Guest but here's what people keep telling me and this they weren't saying this about Andrew But they like it when it's just you and I riff in and just making sure that on the fly Yeah, yeah, I've felt that and I think it's even more on these zoom calls because the zoom call pays a little slower when we're in person It's a little bit better I think to have that third guest on the seat and it definitely depends on their guess got to bring the energy You can't just be successful and smart that is not enough You have to bring energy You got to know what people want to hear about and get to the point and so you know That's the rubric for guests Which is hard when you're also trying to find famous guests because they help the show grow and just for the record Sean and I have recorded with I think we've done a bunch of times I personally have done a bunch and it was wonderful people who I like and it just turned out to be bad and we just don't publish Yeah, we throw it away and we don't even tell the guys Yeah Like throughout the years for whatever I don't remember what I was recording stuff for I've interviewed someone who was like an amazing operator and the content was wack And I'm like, oh trash.
Yeah, and so anyway The feedback that we're getting so on is that people like us because they say that I'm more Optimist and you're more like down to earth and that we risk and they love that and that they can't get that anywhere But you and I are like let's go get more guests and people don't like the guests But unfortunately that helps us grow. Yeah, well, we'll keep mixing it in dude I had a call yesterday that I was like if I had just recorded this this would have been like one of the dopest podcast ever It was just me and for kind of we have a call every once a week now That's just called cool shit and he lives in like the edge of like technology He's like in the dark web basically not in a legal way, but sort of like he's on the forefront of what's interesting going on It's just like a he's just a nerd. He's just like a very typical Silicon Valley engineer. Yeah, and but he knows In a good way he knows me well enough and also he loves money enough where he knows how to take that stuff and bubble up the Bits that are interesting the bits that are relevant and not just get lost in the weeds of technology So that was amazing But unfortunately to record the other thing I was gonna say about the guests is being guests on other What's my guess is the other way to grow so I had each other reach out to like 50 podcasts and just like hey I'll go on and talk about it right like I'll go on Yeah, I just told my company I go on and talk about that Hey, we built a podcast that did a million downloads in the first six months we can talk about how we did that and So I think guessing on other people's podcast might be a good way you did this with Gary V with pump So maybe we could yeah, I've probably so there's a caveat there I've probably been a guest a hundred times and there was a period like over the trailing six months I have it set on my calendar from three o'clock to five o'clock That's only guessing a podcast and I would do it and some of the small ones just drove nothing Like it was total hit or miss and so I would spend like three weeks doing it and it's almost like and you probably like this It's like being a comedian you just say the same shit over and over and you kind of figure out what hits and it's fun It's almost like therapy.
You just talk about yourself It's cool, but it gets a little repetitive and it's the results are not always there, but they are sometimes yeah And you know the thing you said at the beginning which is For podcasting you get this base and it's the sticky sticky base of people who want to who listen to it all the time It becomes a part of their routine. They start to really love you that sort of thing It's very different than other products I built where I'm like alright I want to get millions of users to just visit this page or like just use this once a week or subscribe to this and kind of forget about it Like that's been a lot of the product about this is the opposite It's like an army of a hundred thousand people who will like go to war for you I think there's people in this group that would if I said hey I need to beat this person up they would go beat that person up like there's people who really have your back and And when I started this I remember I was talking to Sulei who's the very first guest on the pod and he was like You know what do you think it next you just sold the company and I was like You know I really like this podcast thing It goes okay like is that a business like it can some ways it's a step down right? So I'm gonna wait way less doing this than I did my last business or any other business I want to do and I was like look I want to just be in like a million people's ear balls every morning If I did that I just know that that's a good thing and I don't know how to get there But I'm gonna do that I'm gonna get into a million people's ear balls every morning on their way to work on the way to work I think that's powerful Yeah, I mean it may or may not be a business, but it definitely will lead to way more opportunity I've had a lot of I mean I've been doing the content thing a little bit like before the podcast So I kind of understand it, but the podcast definitely is different I remember I went to New York's fun and I just tweeted I was like I'm gonna be over here I'm gonna be over here because I was there for a hustle advertising crap and I just tweeted I was like yeah I want to be here I had 200 people want to come and so we only let maybe 20 come and because we're in people's ears dude Like these people this kid Ryan said something to me And he's like yeah, you know because you said how much you like this thing and I was like I don't remember what you're talking about and like they think they know you Right, you know the other thing I like is that people are the people who listen to actually pretty really smart and successful You know I think a lot of podcasts that are about business They cater to kind of lowest common denominator So it's like oh the entrepreneur is their core market and you know in our Facebook group for this podcast I posted something saying hang on doing some cool for people who have a business that does over a million dollars a year And there's like a hundred plus replies just in that Facebook group people who have business is doing over a million dollars a year Right, so these are not like kind of like the one entrepreneur who's you know They're not a five job or a college kid or something like that Like of course there are people like that But the audience also is mixed with a lot of interesting successful people There's a bunch of VCs that listen to this is crazy. So anyways enough about podcast.
Let's give people some of some of the topics or ideas Let's talk one more thing about the podcast which is my house looks like is crazy right now I had to go and buy this mic. I've had it like set this all up Dude, it's been so hard to set up like a zoom thing and It's hard. Yeah, I know you want you want that business to exist Which is push a button and give me like a dope podcast like turnkey Yes, oh and for anyone who's listening this is podcast related a little bit I promise I'll finish up with this but this is awesome So my friend Neville Biodora he sponsored last podcast copy running course.com I'll plug him he I did like a happy hour with him I mean I don't know dinner or we just we're just shit Because we haven't been able to see each other because this stuff he used a DSLR as his webcam and It was awesome. It was so it looks amazing.
It made up look like a Greek God It looks like he's like it's like it's like this that I don't know about cameras Where it does like your blurry and it's called like okay or something like that So so I saw on YouTube There's a guy Gary Tanny's an investor in Silicon Valley He's like you know one of the white common-air partners and he did this YouTube video That was like how to look like a fucking amazing on zoom and I was like dude this makes sense This is the new like this is the equivalent of wearing a suit to work now Right like is sitting on the scene and not looking like shit with your room looking like shit And so this video only had 1,500 views But he's like look this is the camera used this is the mount This is the lens here's how you get the that blurred background look and like he looks amazing And then when I saw that photo you the screenshot you had a level I was like I bet you he watched that video and there was only 1500 views But I was like anybody who's watching this and I the other guy who who did it was a new drawer who's the founder He was at product. I get a stroke capital and he does it too and it really does look amazing and when I saw that I was like I should do this. I should I should do it. I didn't know about this video So last night about $700 for the stuff.
I bought I already had these Phillips you like Bob's you know Yeah, yeah, where you I just say Alexa turn the lights March watch. Yeah, it's gonna turn the lights on And so I bought those but you see back here behind the couch. I'm gonna put them there and so it's gonna like shoot up And it's gonna I hope it's like I we have like our room. Oh, I forgot about using the camera We have a room clean anyway, you'll see it.
So I'm in I'm in all this I like this guy reached out from Twitter who? He's done a couple of e-commerce things that are kind of interesting and so I was talking to him and he that's his new thing So he's basically he initially was targeting twitch streamers because he's like look When you're a streamer you're basically broadcasting from your bedroom and streamers invest in all this like artwork cool lights wall panels Smart speakers all this stuff to make the room look good and he's like I'm gonna make any comm store That's like just gonna do that. It's gonna be what's it called? I'll find the name of it I don't know if you want me to cut out himself.
We may have to believe this if if he's not into it But I'll say it right here. It's called visual candy and this guy's smart. I like this guy a lot and so So now with the room looking to work from home I think this extends a lot past where his initial market was which is you tubers and twitch stars And now it's you know any professional who's gonna spend some amount of time in a home office and just think about the amount of home offices That are being built out right now because people are needed infrastructure for this But that's gonna stick around once covid goes away Yeah, I have loved I'm really do it I've like gone to Amazon and I've tried buying like all the stuff It's kind of complicated because I didn't know which batteries do this. I was like, how do I just was a camera need to be So I'm doing this there's another thing called a cam link.
I just look this up. I got a mix it Elgato Yeah, and it I went and looked at it And it was they built this entire thing for streaming for gamers. Yep, and it looks awesome. I'm gonna I definitely gonna start buying this up I'm probably gonna drop to grand I think we'll turn our bit.
We have another bedroom. I'll turn that into an office So I like all this crap dude. I love buying shit when you bought and when I just get on a bi streak I'm like, yeah, you know what I deserve this I need that and like, you know, what's the problem here and and actually buying stuff is not I Don't know there's something like cathartic about it like just the act of buying it feels fucking great And I love it. Yeah, but for me I've been having a call 1-800 got junk and having to spend like if I buy like a new desk the boxes are so big I gotta pay a hundred dollars.
I'm sorry. I'm saying it's just because the box bomb is insane. I fucking hate it I hate it. It's one of the reasons why I moved I live in a house now I used to live in a building and one of the reasons was is because I didn't have to worry about the tracks Right well, no matter how much space I have because I thought oh, I got this new house I was like now I have a garage.
I got this like tradesman alley. I got this extra closet, but it's that same principle I think it's the Parkinson's Law or whatever, which is time will work will expand to fill the time you give it So you have a week to do the project guess what it's gonna take your week if you had a day to do that same project You would have always taken you a day and in the same way like junk your shit will expand to fill the space you have and That's no here. Let me let me let I thought about this a lot. Let me get wise here.
Okay. I'm a amateur beekeeper. So I have bees Do you know that you know this your house right now? Right now, so they actually went away, but since 2013 I've kept bees so I've always for the most part So listen, I'll tell you all about this for the most part in my life or in my San Francisco life Pretenders I live in Glen Park.
It's a nice neighborhood in San Francisco. It's like residential though And I've always had a backyard and I wanted a hobby that was not expensive And I didn't want it to turn into a business and I just wanted something fun that I could be outside And I'm able to say hobbies that I could pick just pick the lamest one and go be keeping came up with top because it doesn't cost a lot of money to start if you want to you just leave it alone and not do anything or you wanted to you could poke around with it and like Be active with me Low maintenance it doesn't only cost three to five hundred dollars to get into the hobby You don't have to buy it to shit to keep up with it And it was allowed me to be outside and so I became a beekeeper in 2013 I think you know how long do bees live like you still got be that's around from them? No, no, no they they I think they might only live for like a few months they could cycle through and so I bought about ten thousand bees and I get honey from and I just gave it away and I I caught southern Sam sticky icky and And I've had bees for years and when I live in Sonma I only live in some of her year And then I went back to Glen Park and I just kept it on the roof at my office So you can have bees I would have ten ten thousand bees just on the roof of our office and no one would know they say themselves mostly They go out and get honey or get pollen and they turn it to the mector and it turns into a honey And anyway, here's the interesting thing that I learned see this has been like this is my words I'm like here's the interesting things that I've learned with bees is bees fill the space that they are given with honey So if you give them a lot of space They will always fill it if you don't give them a lot of space then they just won't make right and so rule of the state And so I've learned this through bees that she means of the same way if you give them a lot of space then they will fill it with a Ton of stuff if you give them not a lot of space They just won't buy stuff you won't you just won't get stuff and so that's the important thing So when you think of like I'm gonna get the siege house you can have a ton of room and I'll have more space You're gonna fill it to the brim with crap and you will no longer have space it always works That's amazing. I love that story didn't know you were a beekeeper I've known you for like six years had no idea by the way We both studied abroad in Sydney and I took a class because when you study abroad you're trying to have a good time I'm trying to learn and so I took the easiest class I could find which was a bee a bee class And so I learned all this shit about bees and bees have some crazy things like just two quick be facts If I remember correctly from ten years ago I learned that when the queen bee goes to mate She leaves on an expedition and she will mate with as many male bees as she can along the way And she basically has sex with them and then kills them right afterwards They're back and they die and then she sort of gets impregnated by all these bees And then there's other thing which is really interesting that the people who learn from bees which is like a big evolutionary learning Which was you know beehive many of the bees could be fertile But they choose to be sterile and they choose to just take care of the queen bees kids Because they're all related by like some 25 they're all like quarter sisters or something like that They're all like 25% related and it turns out like in a Darwinian sense You are better your genes are better off surviving if you just tend to these half sisters and quarter sisters that you have rather than trying to have your own kids It's right.
That's the crazy thing about bees bees are awesome, man It's a great hobby you can get into it for two hundred fifty dollars All you gotta do is go to Amazon and you type in beekeeping kit and it's almost any of the kit and then you go on your Crank local Craigslist you might even be able to buy them online, but that might take like a few weeks But you go on your local Craigslist you type in bees There's a farmer nearby where you can pay a hundred dollars and they'll give you ten thousand bees and they'll set it up for you It's so it's super easy to get into and it is so fun bees. You can eat I get fuck I mean I'll get like I gotta think about this like probably five to eight gallon milk jugs Like what's the public is that a gallon of milk like that worth a honey? Maybe five to a year the producer okay cool. I want some yeah Also related to this idea of like people buy stuff and people love stuff and people fill their space with stuff and bees will fill There's based with stuff if you want a good five minutes go on YouTube and type Chris d'Elia girls love things And you will have a great time for five minutes.
Okay, and now that brings to me to a random startup idea So I don't think this would work. So let me start with that But there's something interesting here where so Netflix recently and Netflix in the last few years started going heavy into comedy So comedy used to be like HBO kind of owned the space where they would do you know HVO specials And then that kind of dried up and comics are like cockroaches. They'll always survive. It's like okay We'll go play in the dingiest room.
We'll go on stage. We'll get it Netflix special We'll get it if you're special okay, we're back to the dark room again like they won't quit Yeah, they're like degenerates and now podcasting has been a huge boom for them So Chris really I also just had a Netflix special come out these guys make tons of money Right, so Netflix started cutting like 10 $20 million checks I believe to these comedians because they know that comedians have these like rabbit followings and The content is good. It's unique sort of proprietary content But I think that there's a product out there sort of like a crunchy what crunchy role did for anime I think somebody could do for the mid-tier comedians I think you could make a sort of five dollar a month seven dollar a month subscription to the the Comedians that are not gonna get Netflix specials right so not Chris rock and not Seinfeld and Chappelle and all those guys but like the next here down like even you know one level below like the Whitney Cummings of the world right because they are still getting that for specials And I think you can add them up and it doesn't have to be the hour-long special It could be like a 10 minute set or a 20 minute set or something like that And I think you could get I think each of them have a few thousand fans that would pay to be able to access that exclusive comedy content And and so you would ag if you just aggregate all the comedians then it's a sort of all you can eat past where as if you were I can discover other comedians too So anyways, I think that there's a business potentially for a mid-level Netflix for comedians where you aggregate what do you think? Great, I'm looking up information so I can I my brains rolling and I'm gonna let me let me tell you what I think so first of all Quibi I imagine it's trying to do something like that so Quibi is that even fucking hi Yeah, it's pretty stupid.
I mean look I think with Quibi It actually can be great because the people who are running it are like super smart, but it does not look like a good bet now But it still might be anyway, they're trying to do something like that So I think that that is a great idea and I think the way that I would find out how to do it is I would look up Quello QE L.L. Oh, I heard a quote. I heard of it. Okay.
Quello's cool So what Quello is is it's a it's I think it was started away before it's time It's an app on Apple TV and all they have is live concerts and so it started in 2010 and It's available on it's a app for your phone But I think it's best on Apple TV and you can download it and you pay ten thousand or maybe ten dollars a month ten Sometimes ten thousand dollars. Yeah, I think it's ten dollars a month and you just get access to library of live concerts Have you ever wanted to do that or is that just me? I kind of do this on YouTube YouTube like has enough free like I listen to a bunch of like red rocks concerts right because it's a concert venue called Red Rock Which is awesome and like anytime my musician goes there they film it and like epic with epic cameras and sound and they're just like available And YouTube for free, but this is cool. I like this.
It's awesome And it's better than YouTube But YouTube is great and the reason it's better is because like if you buy like a concert DVD the camera works a little bit better And the sound is a lot better and I love live music and so I am a big fan of this and they have 70,000 paying subscribers They were recently acquired by Stingray Communications, which is a publicly created company in Canada It's a cable company So if I were you Sean and I wanted to launch this or if I was a listener wanted to launch this I would look up Stingray Communication and I would go and read the filing for that company and I would figure out exactly what Quello does That's what I would do and I would learn about how they did it because it's a relatively niche thing. They only have 70,000 Subscribers, it's not huge and they've been added for 10 years So it's not a big number and I think it is incredibly viable business And I think it's great another thing another thing that I would do is I would look up Discovery Channel and then National Geographic Are you familiar with that? You're familiar with that? Okay, National Geographic is still huge company Disney recently bought into it at a billion dollar valuation It may still make they still make hundreds of thousands or hundreds of millions of dollars a year from their magazine subscription Is that crazy?
That's insane And so I would but here National Geographic was a nonprofit and and so the good thing about non-profits is you can go and See all the numbers and so what I would go and look at I would look at Discovery and I look at National Geographic And I was looking at Quello and I would see what they were doing because those are relatively niche Subscription companies that crush right so long story short great idea. Okay cool. All right. What else we got you want to talk about this Carda thing Yeah, so I am a user carda.
I think the product is only okay. It's still quite frustrating to use but carda laid off A bunch of people the other day hundred sixty seven people yeah, and they raised money And their CEO Henry wrote this message that he made public and he said something like it was not your manager's fault for laying you off It was 100% my fault in fact It was the opposite your managers try to help you and I'm the one who reviewed every lesson I said we're gonna fire this person so blame me and I think that was great I thought it was a great message high level. He was basically saying hey we laid a bunch of people off and I'm going to Publish the announcement I made to the company so that you know presumably other CEOs other companies can kind of learn from this use this or Take solace and the fact that I do this to I don't know whatever the purpose was yeah content marketing and he published this And I typically and fall into the category of all presses good press go ahead and do it I thought this was kind of lame Did you agree and I and I tweeted that Henry and I went to come here and I'll say this to his face I think he seems a cool guy this move I think was kind of lame right I would agree I've kind of followed this guy for a little while like I've read some of those stuff or seen some interviews Seems like if you die seems like a smart guy and I think Carter's a good product And I like some of the other stuff they've done like they have a next chapter program basically to help people who want to People want to leave the company they don't make it this like awkward exit they like celebrate it and whatever in theory so I thought this was lame mostly because I Thought two things I thought it was tongue-deaf and Secondly, I didn't think the actual statement was very good So I thought just the premise of what he was trying to do like what is the upside and what is the downside? It to me it looked like he was trying to pat himself on the back and I know he would never be that's not what I'm trying to do blah blah I think I'm trying to pat himself on the back and also like you know give a little bit of sort of you know Put Carter's name out there again like just like this kind of like the buffer wave like all this everything and Be good the bad thing you get attention, but I just thought it was tongue-deaf and also it seemed like what he wanted people's reaction to be Was like wow great leadership way to take responsibility great CEO ship and he got that both not from me When I read this I was like this was a pretty horrible way to do the announcement and I'll tell you why he started Okay, so here's like I'm just gonna bullet point the the summary so he goes Overlastly weeks we're talking about recession planning.
I said layoffs were likely and today is the day I can't delay it any longer Okay, weird start all right, then he says I'm sorry if I apologize if I sound robotic I'm reading off a script because I don't know if I can get through this without something to lean on okay You're not the victim don't say that that's also kind of yeah, that's pretty late Yeah, blame is fuck then he says okay, let me start with the details. We're gonna lay off 160 employees at 16% of our company. It's gonna be different across the company All right, then this was weird I thought it was just like if you are one of those affected you'll receive an invitation from your manager If you do not receive a meeting invitation you are safe and I was like okay hunger games a little odd way to do it But you know in a zoom world I don't know if there is a better way to really like kind of mass do this where you can't have the information come out until it I just thought like it's anxiety. That's a very like anxious feeling thing And also you gotta know if you're the CEO and you say that people's minds just start racing in that direction They're just imagining what the next hour of the life's gonna be they're not even here the next three paragraphs you say like their mind is On they checked out it's thinking about themselves.
It's at whatever the next three paragraphs are ignore it So there he goes all right The moral conflict this is the part I thought was whack so he's like in a couple of town halls ago I said there's two perspectives around layoffs the first of the shareholder perspective were reducing costs and protecting cash What matters the second is the employee perspective but nothing matters more than saving jobs and helping employees in a you know In a time where it's like unemployment levels of the great depression So each of these are clear they're unambiguous and they're correct from their perspective But they are diametrically opposed this creates a conundrum for CEO CEO's sit between shareholders employees and wish that they could do both For every CEO they have to deal with this conflict I chose to manage this conflict by taking the shareholder perspective and deciding who should leave and they can employ respect it on how to help To me, I was like what is this paragraph like dude? Yeah, what the fuck dude? It's all the same like you're just trying to build a company that makes profit and does work the good people that's the same thing Yeah, and like think about you have to think about your audience Do you think your audience gives a shit about the shareholder perspective and the dilemma you have as a CEO and how you've chose to straddle this As a CEO it's not even about you. So I just thought this was the part that was really odd to me that like see it seemed like I don't know I wouldn't have included this in the statement and I thought that this made it look quite bad And I would not want other CEOs emulating this part of the statement because what matters is your audience as your employees And you know, hey, this is really hard for us We we tried to analyze every situation cut every other dollar We could before we cut anyone's jobs and we did that but this is the this is the path We have to go, you know, this is I'm terribly sorry like I did not manage the company in a way where we had enough buffer This is a failing on my part.
This is the worst You know the worst day in my my time as a company and it is for all of us And so like here's what this means for you and like all you have to say is like this sucks We tried everything we could do this was the last resort and you know Here's how we're gonna make it right by you and not like this theory about how shareholder value matters and the CEO has to like straddle these things It's like nobody cares. Yeah, I think that's not only does nobody care I think that is just a silly way to look at it which is when you're building a company like step one is Create something that people want yes and get it and get it into the hands get it into their hands in a profitable way Okay, that's step one like that That's just the that's the basics of a company which is you make something that someone wants to give you money or you make something and you make a profit off of it, right? and If I don't think that's step one, but that is the fundamental premise of the company That's the fundamental that's a fundamental premise is what I mean And so if I was saying I'd be like look here's the deal like we expect we expected to grow a lot faster And we're investing in this and the plan would have worked but this thing slowed everything down and so we just have to cut things that are not profitable and That sucks and I'm sorry that that sucks But that's what's gonna happen and I think that if you just say that and more straightforward way instead of all this shareholder value Like people already know that already know that they're all adults in the room to understand this fucking crazy virus is happening And companies across the board are having trouble some companies have no revenue now like people get that that that's happening And it's just like okay, so what's gonna happen at our company? Oh our company we they tried everything they could they're making the sort of this is what he needed to say was This was our last resort We did this in a way where we're not gonna have another round of layoffs because that creates, you know a ton of I wouldn't say that I would say we're gonna try not to yeah, you know That is our goal and how we did this but even then that's speaking to the people who are staying you know really at this point You just have to speak to the total group and just say some of you're gonna be affected here's how it works We're here's how we're doing our best to make it right to do right by everybody who's done right by us This is no fault of your own this is a vault of ours in running a company that was not Did not have the margin of error to deal with yeah I think that like what I would just say if I had to do this which I hope I never have to but I probably really will have to do one Day not like I'm saying our company, but I'm not implying anything one day if I have a long career which I will That you gotta say look I have a hundred percent of the flock that I have to manage and take care of and Sometimes that might mean that I have to fire 30% of the flock in order to take care of the other 60 and that is just how life works And this just sucks right and what I'm trying to make this happen such a way that the 40% are not completely hung out to dry But this is just what I have to do and I'm sorry that this is the situation and if you want to blame someone blame me And that's that right and that's pretty much all you have to say exactly like you don't need the epic speech and you know Right now we're kind of like look I think we're clear that hey personally for us this didn't like come across great And we weren't like oh wow that was epic on the other side You know we're just kind of off the cuff coming up with what a better speech might be but the reality is that this case Like you basically have a speech writer you have a multi-billion dollar company And you have time to think about this and this is the what we're reading is his output after thinking about it And so that's the part that I thought was well also I went to have published it I went to publish this because it's like you take this fuck it take this on the chain like and by the way I know I'm Chris and this guy I don't know him he and I will tell us to I'll say this face and I'm sure he's actually a good dude This is just a big miss but I would say like dude you gotta take this one on the chin and just like this is a loss and And say be a man and say what you want to say to your people which that's your fault.
That's wonderful. I wouldn't publish this I didn't understand that and also I'm not sure what the what this website was of that was now on the other hand I think they did something great right so like the actual actions that they were taking for people that were great They're like look we're gonna extend the Cobra Health Insurance till the end of the year because health insurance is super important Especially right now and so they didn't have to do that but they did they removed people's cliff and they invested their shares They didn't have to do that but they did you know They they gave them I think a bunch of different didn't have to do that but they did and then they have this sort of alumni network where they're trying to help people get jobs Cool, I like all of that like I liked all of that action I just didn't like the preamble and I didn't like this sort of pattern pattern seemed a little bit like pat me on the back Please can I show you my leadership during this at first time so you could like give tell me I did a good job And that's a part I didn't like I liked a lot of the action and I love you guys so you know This is not no personal thing against them. I have friends who work with them and I've heard a lot of positive stuff I just think that like and I value I applaud Carter for raising this money and going big and trying to make something happen and I applaud them for overhiring in hopes of Like it working like I applaud the risk-taking and I want people who are listening that just because Sean and I are criticizing this guy You got to take rest still and you got to try this big shit And it's not gonna work all the time good I mean not good but like whatever that's just you know It's comes with the territory and I just wish you would have took it on the channel a bit more Right, okay, I got another I got another topic that's on a more positive note, okay, so I got washed I feel like I had some hatred spill on me there. I got to wash that off So this is yeah, and by the way, you and I typically are I'm yeah rarely a hater exactly So we're rarely hater Yeah, so I want to go and this by saying I hope these guys crush it.
I hope they do wonderful I believe I think they actually will I just think that this one move was a stupid move and probably a very long and positive journey Right and look, you know There's a big difference of criticizing a person versus criticizing an action or criticizing a you know something that was done And this is definitely like just didn't like the message not the don't even know the messenger Can we just say by the way that a lot of people In media like in who have these podcasts and newsletters and they're all fucking haters of the people they're covering right? Is that not the craziest thing ever? Yeah, well, I think it's like it's like a fair trade. So there's a guy Eric Weinstein Have you heard this podcast?
It's called the yeah, I like to call the portal smart guy I don't know too much about him runs like Peter teals fun And so he's been talking about this concept lately that's called kayfabe. Have you heard him talk about this? No, okay, so he's like hey, there's this wrestling term called kayfabe kayfabe kayfabe And he's like okay, babe is is like you know in wrestling. It's basically wrestling is a fake fight Right, we need like a prearranged sort of agreed-upon fake fight where I'm the hero near the heel or I'm the good and you're the bad whatever and And it's like the dialogue is sort of an agreed fight for both of our betterments like the more we feud the more popular We both become and the fight itself like okay We agree sort of agree to do this and so he talks about how this happens in the real world too like right now I see this whenever Trump goes and does his briefing and then there's that one guy from CNN Jamal cost I think his name and Yeah, always there and he trumps like okay Yeah, you're next and then he asks this question and Trump like rips him and then that becomes like a seven minute YouTube clip and CNN talks about it all day and Like you know on one hand it's like why doesn't Trump just kick this guy out or like you know remove his press you know credentials here or the other hand Why doesn't this other guy you know either you know fight back or start or like take some other action every day the same sort of Thing plays out and I think in reality it serves them both extremely well where CNN gets awesome content that people want to watch because it's juicy to see the president fight with somebody and Trump also loves the attention on the left on the right good and bad and then he Drums it up as to do those liberals are always trying to say this and then the right supports him more because he has an enemy That's attacking him right and so there's like this dance that they're doing So I get that intentionally I get that but here's what I don't get so I'll give you a very specific example Pissed me off so much.
There's this woman named Natasha T to forget what Natasha to I don't know how to pronounce what I forget it though It's like to anyway She was a blogger for Valley WAG which Valley WAG was pretty funny and all but they took it too far All they did was make fun of Silicon Valley and then she worked at BuzzFeed and then Wired magazine And now she's at Washington Post and she had this article that says Silicon Valley now deems luxury housing and essentials and essential good Good and so people are still building multi-million dollar condos and in the first fucking line of the article It says the mayor has deemed luxury housing as well as all other types of housing including housing projects and this other stuff as essential And it was in the technology section of the Washington Post Yeah, here's Natasha to Tiku Tiku TIKU and I've better before and and I was like what the fuck that's like saying like I'm gonna write an article in tech production Be like can you believe this billionaires are able to buy one million dollar cars and then the article and be like but also anyone can buy Any car including a $1,000 including a $50,000 Mercedes What and then why is it in the tech? Section of Washington Post. Oh my god. This pisses me off And so I look this woman up.
It's very educated She went to NYU and then like Columbia journalism or like just like Ivy League just really smart woman And I'm like why would you study for eight years or however long it took and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars when you're just gonna Do this hey, you're just gonna hate the people who you write about right? I don't understand it Why not just going right about something that like you want to sell the person say we don't hate them We're just you know reporting on that reporting the stories. We don't hate them So there was a really interesting thing that happened recently where for coronavirus There's this guy biology who's on Twitter pretty popular guy He was at Andre's Horowitz and stuff and stuff coin days and things like that So he's kind of one of those like on the forefront of things guys So back in January he showed up at a crypto meetup He was wearing gloves and a mask and this was January when nobody in the US was really worried about this And everyone's kind of laughing like what are you doing? He's like well, you know, I think there's a you know, you know, maybe small probability But that this coronavirus thing that's happening in Wuhan is gonna be like a major, you know global pandemic and people like okay Well, gee, all right.
Thanks. And so this writer came out and wrote it to do a box of the vox of a recode writer. Yeah, so recode I'm a god. This is so the quick story here is the recode writer reaches out biology and says like hey I want to get your comment on a story We're doing about you know, Silicon Valley's reaction to the coronavirus this weekend early on and he was like yeah, I'm not interested Why don't you report on like who cares about Silicon Valley's what the Silicon Valley elite think about coronavirus?
Like you should report on the state of testing the state of the the spread of the virus and all these other like kind of like Important facts that should be reported on and he tweeted out that he that that has screens shot at her DM And all the journalists were like dude. She was just asking for comment. Why are you putting on blast? This is why people hates Silicon Valley and he was like no, no, no, no I know this game and he's we talked about this He's like this is a strategy called befriend and betray where the journalist comes He says hey biology you're an expert I would love to get your take on this thing and all they're trying to do is write the story and what the headline of the story came out Was something along the lines of like, you know, why Silicon Valley's not doing handshakes anymore?
And was like laughing at Silicon Valley sort of for overreacting to the coronavirus This was early on before all the lockdown and stuff and he said he goes I promise you the headline's gonna be right Silicon Valley nerds refuse to shake And that's perfect and that's what it was now the body of the or go I went back and ready was actually You know, I'm somewhat fair Just reporting what was going on how you know, whatever but he was right about the headline and headline often written not by the Journalist by the editor because editor needs to have clicks blah blah. Anyway, so this is pretty interesting for you If you want to hear more the Jason Calicana's did a podcast with biology that I thought was pretty awesome So I can't I can't stand that particularly given like me like people always like oh, you're a tech bro And it's like a lot of some journals will say that like you work at Vox if I'm tech so are you right like what does that mean? Like I have a sort of a journalism New York Times comment interview me She's like so what are you and you're like tech bro friend? Yeah, I was gonna ask you to do this so tell the story your New York Times story This is an amazing story.
You've told me before yeah, so first of all like I made sure I recorded it in a head because I knew I knew that this person was gonna take me out of so what was the context you went to New York or how do I go down? No, she came here She goes hey you seem like an insider I want to come and learn all the things that people are gonna are talking about right and yeah, and I go okay fine Come I know what you're doing come on and but maybe it could be positive like maybe we'll become like we can exchange Cool information maybe you'll write something positive about me Maybe I'll just whatever and maybe it'll turn out good and she comes she goes never cordless. Yeah, I'm gonna record it too and And because I didn't want to be taking out of context and she goes so like you're like a tech bro Like what do you and your tech friends talk about and your bro friends? And I was like first of all why are you calling me a bro?
Like what do you and your tech chick friends talk like why would you ever say that to me? You don't know me and that's just rude to say anyway, and I and she go I don't know I go you're a tech you tell me she goes no I work at New York Times I was like you guys just announced that most of your revenue comes from digital like you're why am I attacking? You're not tech like you are attacking she was well just different I was like well you tell me what you you you and your tech friends talk about and she goes well We're not whatever they kind of dismiss it. I was like anyway I go well we talk about a just like you know sports and I was like I don't know We just talk about normal stuff like cool diets like cool food I like all types of weird stuff and it was just so odd She was just so trying to like it was so much like an other like I'm an other from you and I'm like I don't I don't understand this this this Economy here like we are actually in the same industry.
I were compugishing so you We both make most of our money from the internet like why are you calling me this tech bro? I you don't even know me and she's like what you don't listen to Joe Rogan do you and like well, yeah, I do I Let's do a lot cool stuff. I I read and this is true every morning I go to CNN and then I go to Fox News and then I go to Huff Po and then I go to Bright Park because those are all like Kind of the opposites. I read all types of stuff.
I like Joe Rogan. I like Oprah I do all types of stuff why are you trying to like set me up for this gotcha moment, right? And it was horrible. I hated it.
Yeah, and so to sum this up the headline by the way We have it multi-million dollar mansions high-rise waterfront condos and a stately Victorian all deemed quote essential under public health orders in San Francisco And Silicon Valley that was the headline right and then the first paragraph it said it said it recited the headline and then added as well as Housing projects and low-income housing all deemed essential It's crazy. Oh my god. I can't stand it. I'm like, why would you remember we bought when we bought BBO back?
so we had bought BBO for a million dollars out of an auction and We were gonna relaunch it at something and so nobody knew that we had bought it back It was like done in a courtroom was like kind of on the low and there was a new reporter and you know We were kind of friendly. I guess we had friends of friends that were mutual and so I was like, okay Hey, you know, I want to give you a scoop and you know on the embargo and like come to an interview Whatever, so she was like great comes over doesn't interview explain the whole thing we talk about what we're doing blah blah blah Next day the article comes out and this is the person we gave the scoop to we could have given it to anyone next day article comes out headline was Remember BBO. Yeah, that be like it was like it was something like, you know, remember BBO Yeah, it's dead, but maybe you know, it was like something like BBO is dead remember BBO It was like LOL was like in the headline it was like making fun of it The whole article was our conversation was like legit. It's like texture.
I was like what the fuck what is this headline? And she was like I'm sorry like I don't get to do the headlines My editor does that line that he just like you know, he's gonna do what's gonna drive up the most clicks and like he decided the thing That would drive the most clicks is talking shit about the buyback and like yeah, right like it's like buying my space back And trying to relaunch it and so I was like, you know, that's that's fair, but Wow, what a shitty move to pull when you're sort of given a embargo You have all these other elements of the story that you could have like used as the lead I don't blame I don't blame her or him because like I think that if you just because you gave her an embargo Like she should be still say the truth sure and say her opinion like if you should hold back if you think you're stupid and What you're doing is stupid She just because you gave her that she's that's true the two things that I thought were weird were number one the headline And the story were so disconnected the story was what she actually thought and the content of our interview right? It was positive and the headline was just something completely different that was written by a completely different person and just shows Kind of like the way the inside of those organizations work the second thing I thought was just kind of whack was like no heads up like there's a sort of a human connection to this too, right? Like if I Done you a favor by giving you an exclusive piece of news even if you're gonna write something that you know I'm not gonna like when you're like LOL this thing is dead.
Yeah, right? It's not gonna come back then you know to surprise the person I think is an unnecessary extra slap versus like oh I just I so disagree with you. I totally agree at your first point But I don't agree your second point which is if I'm gonna say something negative about you I'm not gonna give you a heads up I'm just gonna say it that's dumb business right you cut yourself out then going forward Like we had a bunch of other stories that came out in the coming years and guess who like never got a word But her she doesn't cut herself out for no reason. Yeah, I mean I think it's a it's definitely it's a hard thing to balance And this is why some people like for example if someone says that they're a conservative news site Well, the reason one of the reasons why they probably could keep giving conservative people a good look is so they can get positive They can yeah, so it's definitely hard, but me personally if you if like if someone comes on this podcast and they go like we make me look good I'm like no, I'm not gonna make you look good.
I'm not gonna make you look bad Like we'll talk and if I think you say something dumb, I'm gonna just gonna tell you that's stupid right like I'm not so I Think that I think that if I agree with that game I've got to suffer the both the positive and the negative consequences and the positive consequences Maybe they're gonna think I'm great and they'll tell the truth and also as a quote journalist or I don't know what you Would call me or both of us we're gonna like find a truth But also if someone thinks that about us and it's negative we got to live by that yeah, I don't mind getting negative press I did mind the sort of dissonance and also I don't know like I just think like again bad business for that person because you burn your own Bridge whereas if you're like hey look like just want to let you know like the article's gonna talk about this and it's gonna Mention this right it's gonna be there's gonna be some negative parts which we'll skip to go out and those these cool It's gonna get that relationship in loss of relationship that like maybe affected them Maybe telling you how to be negative is not bad, but like if I think that what you say is bullshit I'm gonna say no matter what nobody wants to otherwise nobody will read the shit if you're not telling it like it is They're not telling your actual opinion then the whole ecosystem doesn't work, but all right Anyways, I think we have any other ones we want to talk about? You know well I was gonna say didn't someone come on the show and I was like I'm gonna tell this one I think there's that that what they're doing is really stupid and it's definitely awkward. What did that happen? You remember that?
I don't remember that now. Oh, man Oh, I know what it was it was the woman from everly well I think she came on with the the tests and oh I know I was like I think the traditional testing was bullshit You said it straight in her face and then she kind of answered you I'm gonna try to pat myself on the back I'm trying to say like I don't even remember like did we call her out? You literally said it to her I kind of I kind of started the pot I was like oh yeah What you think about it? You told her tell her what you were saying like yeah, definitely set it up But it's definitely awkward like before and after you're like I'm being nice You're like I'm definitely gonna roast you right now super awkward But I think if you do it a certain way it's not that bad it's like because and they should understand okay one last thing dude We totally went off the rails here go ahead last thing.
Yeah, we did go for this podcast without like be keeping and like all kinds of shit But whatever so I'm gonna take my hat off and so I clearly need a haircut my friend Greg launched this company or not company this create a website called you probably need a haircut calm and basically surfing quickly off the The quarantine stuff where people are locked at home everyone's hair's growing out. No, you know He's shaved a mohawk what he's doing is he's barbers. We're also at work They're at home. They can do a zoom consultation and basically help you cut your own hair and so it's awesome You're here looks good.
Did you cut it? No, I'm good. It's awful. It's yeah It looks good right now.
I agree actually they look good now, but I looked at it before this happens on it and it looked awful So I'm gonna go cut my I've been cutting my own hair for 10 years now I have to have the clippers I can tell you all that I don't want to do a fade the other day I did shave it completely bald because I'm how do you do the bag? Sarah my wife will help me but for years I would do it on my own and admittedly probably didn't look great I watch the videos on how to like give a fade and it's not that hard But I've been doing it for years because for a long time I was poor I want to pay money, but now I do it because I don't want to like drive I don't want to go and plus they always make a head phones out and I'm like well now I'm bored Like you don't understand I constantly have information going into my eyes or my ears and now you're making me just sit here Like this yeah, and also I just don't want to talk to them I don't want to like so when I do like close my eyes not to talk But I wish that there was like an app like for at a certain barbers like click like do not talk to me or talk to me because like for weird like People like me. I'm like I just super I don't like the confrontation. I just don't want to talk to leave me alone I'm like that fucking grocery stores.
You know Jack He we're like the same way we go to grocery stores And I'm like if I don't see what I don't want to buy it I'm really probably have it but a difference not I just won't fucking buy it I just won't buy it instead of ask or if I'm with Sarah Bixarra we go ask for this I like I don't even want to talk to any right yeah, so I think a lot of people are like that Yeah, I think I had this in the uber where you could get in and be like yo, let's not let's not do that thing where we talk yes Yes, it's awesome. I just don't I'm just like uncomfortable and I don't want to fucking do it But more barbers you know the last thing to know what they need at barbers is I just need like six different haircuts for men And you see like give me the four but they do have that I feel like a lot of a lot don't you say the same thing like Short on the side a little bit. Yeah, like everyone doesn't say it's like just like show me a picture of like five people And I'll just point right a lot of barbers don't have it or do it could be unspoken because everybody just wants short on Side a little less toward on top but shorter than it is currently and you should only have to say anything if you want some Other shit like oh, I'm going for this other look. I want to do a look Okay, then I tell you about the look but if not I just sit down no words Just do the short on the sides a little short on top same just like give me like three options like completely ball Like I'll just whatever the three are and I'll just point at one of them And by the way, just don't talk to me unless I initiate conversation and do my eyebrows because I get a little long I got long eyebrows everyone knows that don't make me ask that's the number And also they say like do you want the back of your neck around it or squared?
I'm like don't know I don't care like I don't see it you be the judge exactly And I want to ask them I was like what's the deal with this question because I don't know and like is there a difference What's the deal and then someone told me actually one of the barbers actually taught me they were like look if you do square When it starts to grow back out, it's gonna look shit So it looks good initially, but then it'll look it'll look obviously not square after it starts to grow out He's like dude around because then even as it grows back. It's like blends in it's not so bad That's all dude. This sounds like a Larry David episode like a like so Like we try we try um so um this one went off the rails I I think people this is gonna hit with some people so tweet at me and Sean and let us know if this like yeah Just tweet like yo stick to the script if you want us to not go off the rails as much or just say go off the rails If you want us to go through well the good the good news is Sean is we don't have to do that much work It's a research for next Tuesday because I actually had some stuff to go over topic So because we got stuck on journalists and beekeeping and a bunch of stupid I'm mad again about that article from 10 years ago now. I'm like still pissed I got bad I'm friends with the woman I'm like friends with her on Facebook and I like call their out and uh it never fucking wins When I argue people I'm gonna go decompose I had a look at like it I look at like an asshole and it just doesn't work and I do it all the time