Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. What's up, life group leaders? This is Sam Smith, co-host of the Life Group Leader podcast.
Today, Scott and I sit down with Esther Chung, our incredible discipleship pastor for women at Mariners Church, to talk about seven keys to leading effective group discussion. We're gonna talk about the difference between facilitating and teaching, the importance of asking open-ended questions, and being comfortable with a little bit of silence. Just like that. Well, let's tune in to today's episode.
Sam and I are here. This is Scott. This is Sam. We're here with Esther, who is our discipleship pastor of women.
Let's go. So happy to have you here again, Esther. And today, we're gonna be talking about the seven keys to leading effective group discussion. And Esther, you shared this at our past leader huddle, and it was such a great, helpful, practical talk.
Whether you've been leading for 20 years, or whether you're just starting out, I think all of us can grow in this area and get better at facilitating our life group discussion. So we'll love to go through those seven tips together with you. Awesome. So the first one, Esther is a good one.
Facilitate, don't teach. So if you could elaborate a little bit on that. Yeah, I think that what's such a blessing of our church is our church really is a content hub too. So I think our senior pastor and our teaching team really does so much of the heavy lifting to do the studying and also the presenting of the scriptures that I don't think they're other than a review, potentially there's much teaching that needs to be done.
And so to facilitate, actually, that word facilitate in Latin actually means to make easy. And so I think the goal of a life group leader is to facilitate this space, to make it easier for people to dialogue in godly and spiritual conversations, which is hopefully the goal through that is helping other people turn their deeper affections for Jesus. And so the goal isn't to preach a mini sermon, but to guide conversations in a way where we can process or apply truth into our own lives. And that really engages the entire group to participate rather than one person giving them on a log.
It's engaging the whole group to dialogue and be involved. That's great. A round table. And I think that that's such a good imagery because at a round table, there's really no head of the table.
And so the goal of a life group is that everyone's kind of equal. We want to give everyone whether they're rich or poor type A, type E, introvert, extrovert, and opportunity to speak. Because not only because we want to hear from them, but also because deep down inside as leaders, we believe that each person has an insight about god that we have to hear. So when we lead from that conviction, we're able to steward and facilitate the right space for that time that we are together.
Yeah. That's really good because I feel like a lot of life group leaders have a burden on themselves to teach and have all the answers. And that's not the goal. The goal of a life group leader is to help facilitate bring out discussion from others.
So good. So good. The second key to leading an effective group discussion is ask open-ended questions to spark deeper conversation. Esther, what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I love that. And asking questions is so powerful. And avoiding questions that have answers to either yes or no is, I think, a wise way to go about it. But I think when we as life group leaders ask thought-provoking questions, we're really emulating God.
Because God was the first question asker in the scriptures. And Genesis when Adam and you fell, he said, in Genesis 3.9, where are you? Or he asked in verse 11, who told you that you were naked? And he already knew the answer.
He's the God of the universe. But he was using questions as a way of revealing and almost inviting Adam to a space of confession and understanding, almost like mentally and verbally processing what's going on in his heart. And so I think a true and a wise leader, and teachers that I've seen in my life, wise and godly teachers actually don't say much. But in what little they say, they say a lot.
But what they do is they ask that provoking questions. So I would say the goal is to draw out the best of them. And the best way to do that is by asking questions. And there's a teaching method called the Socratic method, which is you're trying to help somebody understand or process something through dialogue.
And I think that that's really kind of a DNA and a core value of Mariners and how we lead life groups. Yeah, and many of our questions in our sermon discussion guides or other studies, recommended studies, are designed in that open ended question format. So yeah. The third key, one I'm going to admit I struggle with, is listen and pay attention to what people are really saying.
I find that sometimes hard because as I'm asking questions and my hearing from people, I'm already thinking things in my head rather than actually listening to that person sharing. So I think it's a bit of a little bit on that. Yeah, I mean, good facilitators are great listeners. And I think you don't just hear the content of what's going out of their mouths.
But as you're hearing somebody process and share, you as a leader want to discern what's going on in someone's heart. Because the scripture say, out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. And so you're not only listening to their words, you're actually listening to their heart and paying attention to what people are saying. And I think a few ways that you can continue to cultivate, like welcoming that is by just saying, hey, after somebody shares, thank you so much for sharing.
Or there's this technique in therapy called parroting, which is you kind of repeat what that person said. So they said, oh, today I had a really hard day at work and da da da da, and they're saying that. And then as a leader, you could be like, OK, this is what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that life's been really tiring.
Does that sound about right? And by parroting, so parroting, they repeat what you say. So not in an overly exaggerated way, and it could be brief. But I think it welcomes more people to share and allows the person who shared potentially in such great vulnerability to feel safe and knowing that they feel heard.
And so repeating or even reflecting back what you heard as you're listening is such a great technique, even a practice for us too. Because if you've been a like leader for so long and a pastor or director in ministry, I know that the moment someone's sharing, I feel like I already know where they're going to go. And I think that that's actually, it could be a sign of wisdom and it could be a sign of great experience. But it's such a disservice to the dignity of who that person is.
And so I think even in our restraint, we actually show our maturity. And so we listen and we restrain ourselves from wanting to chime in so that that person can finish their processing or their sharing. Wow, that's so good. I'm going to use that in my marriage.
Oh my God, that's all of us. I need that for my marriage. To be a better partner. Oh yeah, to be a better partner.
So that's actually a great point. Listen and pay attention to what the people are saying. And it's very connected to point number four. Ask thoughtful follow up questions to keep the conversation going.
Because if we're not active listening and paying attention to what the other person's saying, we're already thinking about our response in our head. We're going to have really poor follow up questions. So ask thoughtful follow up questions to keep the conversation going. That's point number four.
Would you mind speaking on that a little bit? Yeah, I think I was on Instagram one time and I saw somebody sharing and they're not even a believer. They said that the key to intimacy is curiosity. And so I think that when I have a true posture of just wanting to ask them more questions just because I want to know, maybe I wanted to know how something went or wanted to know more details about what they were sharing, I think that it's such a beautiful thing to ask more questions.
And I would say, I think people fear asking follow up questions more than they actually do. And so yeah, I would ask. And you can even do a disclaimer or say something at the end and be like, hey, if that's too much to answer, we totally can move on because you want to protect the safety of that person if they feel like they're not ready. And it's also that other person's responsibility to have the maturity to be like, yeah, I actually don't want to see more.
Or then be like, oh my gosh, thank you for asking. But it could be such an important point of connection. And you're right, even in marriage, right? To not assume that you already know, but to ask more shows that I'm curious about you, I want to know more about you and I want to know more about what you're sharing.
Well, that's a really healthy rhythm. When you say that, gosh, it makes so much sense, but that's not our natural human response. So really appreciate your insights on that. Yeah, and even realizing that there's a difference between asking more because you're nosy and asking more because you're actually curious.
And one is saying, I want to know, I just want to know, I want to know information versus I really want to get to know you is different. So life group leaders, that's a maturity piece on our part two. And if you sense other people asking just because they want to be nosy, I would say actually cut it off. So you just have to discern what's happening.
Yeah, gosh, this is really good. Because I think for some people, as group leaders, we just want to kind of get through the questions. We want to get through the group time. But even if we don't go through all the questions.
What? That's a lot. It is. I mean, I think when you ask those just questions, follow questions, like what you guys are saying, it really gives dignity.
You're interested in finding out more. Just that little quick. Tell me more about that, Sam. Yeah.
Even if, like you said, you don't finish all the questions and you go down an avenue that's more organic, follow that. You have no idea where God is going to take that conversation. And maybe God is taking that conversation down a different route for a reason to uncover something that's going on in someone's life. So that's really good.
So I'll edit this out. Sam, remember to edit this out. OK, so the next point we have is engage the whole group, not just the talkers. This is probably a common occurrence among every single group.
There are some people that are a little bit more shy. Some that are totally fine with contributing. But how do we engage the entire group? Yeah, I think it just takes discernment.
And also just something practical is just because you point at someone that's introverted, let's say, they don't have to answer. So I think even just my husband's introverted. And I think that he always has, he's always thinking. And I think he's waiting just for someone to point it out, like invite him into it.
And if not, he just doesn't want to waste his words. So I don't think it's a maturity or a maturity issue. And I think one of our roles is to draw it out of them. And I remember at the Leader Huddle, I shared the story that somebody said in your spouse or in this specific context, it was like she was talking to the wives.
And she said, in your husband, there is a fool and a king. And whoever you talk to is whoever will respond back to you. And I know that's a little dramatic. But when you look at each person in your group, instead of seeing an introvert or even there's actually three people on staff in my life group, two of us are pastors.
And just not only looking at us to have the logical answers, but seeing the king and the queen essentially, or daughters and sons of God, sisters and brothers equally in the room. And it's our God-given opportunity to talk to the royal priesthood in them to contribute. Yeah, that's great. You guys are probably too young to know this, but do you guys know a band called The Pesh Mode?
No way. No. I do. I'm an old soul.
I'm an old soul. Everyone, I call Scott, how do you? How do you mean it's grandpa in Korean? Oh, man.
No, just kidding. He's a wise one. Yeah, no, just kidding. Oh, wise and great.
The Pesh Mode, back in the days, they had a song called Enjoy the Silence, like, Introduce You, That's Cesh Mode. But speaking on that, number six, six kicks, six kicks, be comfortable with a little silence, which is not always easy for life groups leading a discussion. You want to be able to be talking and chatting? But speak a little bit more on that.
Yeah, I think that silence is actually powerful. And those that are actually mature, I don't know if that's a vague language. I use it in silence because they know that in silence, people are just having a moment to think and reflect. And even, I mean, the Lord wasn't afraid of silence when Elijah was depressed and wanting to run away from the Lord.
The scripture say he wasn't in the earthquake. He wasn't in the loud things, but he was in the whisper. And so in a sense, yeah, I think silence allows us to think and process through. And so take advantage of that moment too.
That's really good, Esther. So for everyone listening, we're going to take the next 10 minutes and be completely silent. No, I'm kidding. Enjoy the silence.
Yeah. That's the Pesh Mode for those that didn't know. I think that's the Pesh Mode. OK, so our last point, seven of seven keys to leading effective group discussion is wrap up by summarizing and pointing to a next step.
Can you please share your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think a strong finish helps people walk away with clarity, application, and direction for how to live something out. And so even as a lecture leader just wrapping up your time of being like, hey, these are some of the things that I heard from you. This is what I'm sensing from the Lord.
Like if there's one commonality that you guys heard, then as a lecture leader, it's such an opportunity to one. Maybe spiritually be like, hey, this is what I sense God doing. And then also practically being like, OK, what's next time are we going to meet? And it's such a good practice to have.
Well, Esther, do you want to wrap up this time? Yeah. I know that Kenton Bishore has been a mentor to you. He doesn't know.
He doesn't know. He doesn't know. Any time I get, not alone time, but he's in the green room, or I'm hosting, or I just love being around him, because he just exudes such godliness. But you have to have Tupskin.
Because when he talks, it feels like he's punching you and hugging you at the same time. I heard that. 100%. But I remember you sharing a little story about when you shared with you.
Yeah, literally changed so much for me, especially in facilitating. So I was in the green room with Kenton, and obviously he's an amazing teacher of God's word. And so I was picking his brain on how to become a better teacher. Like, what books should I read?
Or what posture should I have? What should I lean into? And he went on to share with me that everybody wants to be a teacher. But the goal is to be a spiritual guide.
And I just kind of was like, what does that mean? Spiritual guide, and especially the Western Church that out of the five full ministry, teacher is such an elevated, really a position and a role in the church. And so I'm like, spiritual guide versus teacher. Like, I'd pick teacher.
And so, but I'm just listening to him share with me. And yell at me. No, she's not yelling. Not at all.
But yeah. And basically, so we leave the green room. I was this armor bear that day. And we sit in the front row because the teacher is generally in the front row in the worship center.
And worship finishes. The host is wrapping up the moment. And he turns to me right before he's about to go on stage. And he looks at me and he goes, what are you?
Are you a teacher? Or are you a spiritual guide? And that whole walk from the green room to the front row, the Lord was already speaking to me about it. And he was ministering to me and challenging me.
And I looked at him and I said, spiritual guide. And he goes, that's right. And he walked up. And I just love that because what he was trying to share was teachers, usually they're the main ones communicating.
Like 95% of the time they're talking. But spiritual guides, they partner with the Word of God and the Spirit of God to be able to steward every environment, to help people follow the Lord. Our women's director, she quotes, what's his name? He was the founder of YWAM.
But he said this one thing that in the fall, she shared with me that really marked the past several months. He would say, here God, obey God, and don't give up. And so I think the spiritual guide and you, like leaders, are spiritual guides. We, in every setting, a conference room, in the nursery room, or your life group setting, we're called to steward the Word of God and the Spirit of God and to bring glory to his name.
And so that's my charge to you as well. Be a spiritual guide. What an epic way to end this episode of the podcast. Thank you, Esther, for sharing that.
Really helpful tips today for our life group leaders. Would you all be OK if I ended in prayer real quick? OK. Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for this time with Esther.
We thank you for speaking through her to provide these practical and spiritual tips for our life group leaders. For the life group leaders listening, how'd I pray that you would just continue to show how near you are to them, how much you're comforting them in every season? Lord, I pray that you would help remind them that they don't need to have all the answers. They don't need to be teachers.
What you want from them is to be spiritual guides, to be facilitators, to encourage discussion, to encourage thoughtfulness. And Lord, I pray that as our life group leaders go about their day and their weeks and their time in group discussion, that they would just feel more quit, that they would feel cared for by you. And we pray that you would just continue to go before them in all situations. Lord, we thank you for your son, Jesus.
In Jesus' name, amen. Praise Jesus. Let's go. Thank you.
Thank you.