#72: Leading and Relating Better in Surgery with Dr. Scott Ellner

Trauma surgeon and healthcare leader Dr. Scott Ellner joins me to talk about the moments that reshaped his life and career, from witnessing a beachside intubation at age 21 to navigating one of the lowest points of his surgical practice. We explore complications, shame, psychological safety in the OR, and why compassion and emotional intelligence are essential (not optional) in surgery.Scott shares the retained foreign body case that transformed his approach to leadership, the danger of tense OR energy, and the difference between title-based authority and referent power. We also discuss the failure of punitive peer review, the legacy of Ernest Codman, and what it really takes for surgeons to regain confidence after early-career mistakes.We each open up about panic attacks—mine recently in the OR, his in medical school—and talk about vulnerability, preparation, and staying ahead of fear. Scott also previews his upcoming book, Wipe Out Rise Up, a blend of surgical stories and lessons from surfing on resilience, perseverance, and facing storms head-on.Find Scott and his book here.Listen to his TEDx talk "Lessons from Surgery and Grey's Anatomy" here.Join Empowered Surgeons Group here.