84. Not a Crackle, or a Woggle

Hello and welcome to another episode of Retro's Spectrum and today there's going to be more monkey business than normal as we take a look at it beneath the planet of the apes from 1970 My name's Colin and they will dissect you and they will kill you in that order. Am I a ball and my god? Did we finally do it? Did we finally really do it?

That's right. Did it? For podcast Yes, well finally did it. Oh, but the sexual tension between us as God Paul.

It's gonna be like me I'm really after it really is after all went wrong. Yep I am DB says and they kind of spoil a bit of the plot with their description Oh go on. I've been reading this the sole survivor of an interplanetary rescue mission searches for the only survivor of the previous expedition He discovers a planet real by eight and an underground city run by telepathic humans Well, that is pretty much all the story that there is really there's not much more apart from the final moment But he doesn't put that in yeah, I suppose There's not much left to speak of is that? Planet real by apes and left it Well, you could put that for every one of these movies.

Couldn't you really they should oh all right get onto our DB and get them to well Not the third one. I think what the third one isn't is it that's a time travel on that's the weather the apes are in our world That's right. No, it wouldn't work. No So film stars James Franz Siskus as Brent Mm-hmm Kim Hunter zero mar sevens as dr.

Zeyas Linda Harrison as Nova Paul Richards as Mendez and an appearance by Charlton Heston Surprising his role as Taylor. Yeah, apparently you don't know it is salary to charity for doing this you didn't eat That's not bad, right? Mm-hmm. I mean it was a couple of weeks work.

Oh, I wasn't even though it was eight days Yes He was he was he was reluctant to return wasn't it because he always felt that Taylor's story was played out by the end of the first movie Who wasn't wrong? He was really doing much does he in the well, he does one big thing at the end We could say that but yeah, he did say that he only agreed to return as long as he shots could all be filmed as you say within two weeks And that some spoilers he had to die at the end of the movie I didn't want to come back for a third I think he was hoping that nobody could come back for a third by the way This ends but you didn't understand the rules of sequels that whatever happened in the previous movie doesn't make a blind bit of difference If you want to make a sequel there's gonna be a sequel yeah So the original plan of the 80s based on Pia Bull's 1963 novel La Planete's Orange and he was asked to write the script for This installment but they didn't like it because they said it lacked a visual shock and surprise at the original Yeah, it was called planet of the men Oh, it doesn't sound exciting. Does it really it's just just earth, right? Well apparently it was set 14 years after the original movie and it followed Taylor as he led an uprising of the humans against the apes I don't know.

I don't think it was a plate as well to be honest. I mean, it's just watching bunch of people fighting apes You watch that What a man fine a I was interested to learn that Boole also wrote the book the bridge on the River Quai Oh, I didn't know that It's based on his own experiences as a POW in Singapore when he was fast to work on the infamous railroad of death There's not a room for monkey business in that one, isn't it? Nope? This is second to five the original collection of films There's also a TV series shot animated series and over a planet of the apes film in 2001 and then in 2011 They released the first of a new three-part trilogy and I'm sure now that Disney on the franchise will see a return to it in a few years time Yeah, they'll probably just reboot it again.

What they always thought yeah probably why where could you go? I mean you you I mean the last three films were a reboot and they were done in a very modern way. I mean what's left to Where can you take it that's fresh, isn't it? And they should take it back to the original roots of the book if we go down to that part We won't be sitting there doing a podcast and the one listen to it That's very true some people listen some people There was an alternative ending to this film as well apparently where everyone survived well, they just went hey Well, I'm Brent Taylor and over all escape the tunnels just before the explosion It isn't actually a world ending bomb.

Oh, I was gonna say I skip with the tools Smaller explosion. Yeah, but Charlton has to felt that it would be great just to set off a world ending bomb and us putting paid to any sequels And I read him a dial could not return for his role in this sequel because he was in Scotland directing Tom Lynn It's only direct for real effort. Apparently isn't it? Is it I didn't know yeah, you see it never seen it never seen everyone heard it until I looked up for this I Like Character Know it's just like solid Sounds like a new like what the kids will be saying is they're saying like cool or you know great solid That's not not This film had its budget reduced from five million to two point five million because Fox had suffered recently from several Underperforming big budget films like star hello Dolly and Tara Tara Tara Yeah, apparently even used the underground council chamber in the movie is a redress set from hello Dolly Yeah It makes sense.

I mean there's no reason to spend a lot of money on a sequel to a point of the actually really is there No, not really no everything's there already and most of the world's destroyed so It's not you know, you just need some rocks. That's true. That's all you need really yeah, that's all you get And because this was so drastically slashed as well in terms of money They decided that many of the apes in the background would simply were pull over masks rather than the expensive makeup And boy does it show in some shots? Yeah, I mean that's that's usual practice, right?

But I guess you don't normally see it. It's not as obvious in the first movie talking of the Costumes, what's the connection between this and stir trek? Oh? Go on John Chambers created the prospectus also created Fox ears.

Oh And you've got to say that both are very good. Yeah, also in the 70s. What for the CIA making disguise kits as Long as they look like apes or pointed ears I think I just buy comes on it's got an eight-face of pointy years He's making it up combining the two yeah, yeah, yeah, I think he was a lot better than that though I mean, I mean you can't fault the makeup the makeup in these movies. I think it still holds up today.

It looks fantastic You know the film ago. Yes, I do John Godman's character is that guy. Oh, that's the guy he's playing Yeah, that's the guy's play Wow It's interesting about the makeup as well because it is so good We were talking before the podcast about my my son watched or the new plan of the action movies and he's seen a couple of shots and clips from these original ones and He didn't have a problem with the makeup at all after watching CGI, you know Motion capture apes in the modern ones right didn't have a problem with it with the old school makeup effects of these movies still thought it looked great Yeah, there's only one scene I think in this film where the costumes were a bit I know the scene that you're talking about and we will talk about it. Okay, okay This film in the UK is a 15, but with all those chimpanzees, you know what rating it should have had don't you don't your part go on?

PG Now you're gonna have to explain that for American listeners, aren't you? For out the 70s and 80s chimpanzees advertise PG tips tea bags. So it's so wrong, but yet He felt so right at the time, didn't it? Yeah, look it on YouTube.

You can find all the adverts I just have a couple of other things about this movie awesome Well, apparently was off of the role of general Ursus Bert Reynolds was considered for the part of Brent Yeah, and people can't see but I'm pointing to my Reynolds style bus dash. Yeah, he's very flush calling Very flush. Yes, not on my face I think it's important to know as well just how much of a massive franchise planet the age became in the 70s in many ways it was a precursor to the Star Wars franchise it had so much merchandise and Everything that everyone associates with Star Wars came first with planet the actually and particularly things like action figures It was one of the first franchises to create a line of action figures for boys I think with the meager range of action figures which Were a massive thing in the 70s and extremely collectible today I was thinking that when I was watching it that when we talk about franchises we do talk about Star Wars or Star Trek Marvel and Maybe even the James Bond franchise, but yeah, we don't really mention the Apes films yet There's so many of them TV cartoons comic books figures I think it I think I'll come down to the fact that it's been it hasn't been forgotten because obviously we've had the new Part of the expo's but they weren't marketed the same way that these were these were essentially And it's a funny thing to say considering the stuff that's in this movie. They were essentially kids movies They were marketed to kids Definitely Why definitely Rach toys Robocart films had Not but not to the extent of planet the apes planet the apes as I said before is very much pre goes to what George Lucas They would star Wars in terms of all the product that was out there and most of that product was aimed at kids lunchboxes things like that It was I do think that they were aimed at kids predominantly because I also I think Studio's perception of science fiction at that time Was that it was mainly aimed at kids like?

But the themes in the films and I don't know kids Oh, no not at all and that's something that I think we'll talk about because I think that goes down to the writer and the director and the actors in the Fact that they managed to sneak into this film all this other stuff So it plays on one level it can play on whatever level you want to a kid You probably didn't get all the subtext that was going on in these movies, but yeah the adults would yeah And I think that's what's and that's what's missing from What you would call I don't know popcorn block boston movie today I don't think there's the subtext and levels and a lot of these movies now in the same way that there is in this movie But but we'll talk about it as we get to certain moments in this movie. I think all right So we begin with a gentle opening Images and the sounds of waves on a sandy beach a white 20th century Fox logo appears and the voice begins Be where the beast man for he is a devil's palm. That's a nice bit of a rautica in it devils palm I don't know what you're talking about fine. You want to definitely harm me I was thinking Beastman was me in Masters universe that we covered recently.

Yeah, is that where you prefer that your niche? What beast man? Yeah It's palms about PA WN the vice continues Alone among us primates. He kills the spot.

I'll lost agree. Yeah He will murder his brother to possess his brother's land Let him not breathe in great numbers for he will make a desert of his home and yards Sean him for he is a herbidure of death You see Taylor standing with car nucleus and it is carnilius reading out a parchment that we've been listening to this is archival footage from the end of the first film Next to Taylor is dr. Zira Taylor gets on his horse to follow the shoreline dr. Say yes, who's tied up says oh my life I've waited for your coming and dreaded it.

That's what your wife's in law said on your wedding day path It's spirit. Yeah, this is the only time in the movie when we actually see Robert dial, isn't it? Yes, yeah, I'm hearing I don't you have to say that the guy that he's playing funny this There's quite a good running McDowell impersonation. I'm pretty sure I never really knew I don't think I did no not wrong time Yeah, say this explains his feelings to Taylor Duffin and zone was once a paradise, but you are breed made a desert of it ages ago That still doesn't give me the reason why our planet were aps evolved from men.

Let's go to be an answer Dr. Zaius tells him he may not like what he finds Taylor leaves and say a shot so car nearly us to untime him Taylor continues to ride with Nova What will you find out the dr. Zaius has dr. Zero destiny what a 1980 Swedish heavy metal band Very niche Doesn't tell you to say don't you better not try and follow me because I'm pretty handy with this and justice to his gun Yeah, I mean never what you never what you're a word spoken about shelter nest that's true, right?

Yes If it's not a bad life riding off on a horse with no over is it I mean you take that wouldn't you I like a bit of Hars riding with Nova. Oh, yeah, yeah, it'll check though. I mean that though Yeah, you know needs most we get some music, but it's the sound of dread in minor notes I have a long shot of Taylor and Nova riding the horse along the beach the credits and I'd rather nice simple font with hints of sci-fi I like the credits of these films I don't know why I don't know whether they were designed especially for the film But they work really well because it's simple But they have a hint of the future about them and if I ever see that kind of font anywhere It always makes me think of these films. Yeah, I completely agree with that.

Yeah, it looks fantastic the music is And we've talked about this outside of the podcast, but the music isn't really music is it? It's I refer to as a soundscape. Yeah, but the composer for this movie is Leonard Roseman now Leonard Roseman is Someone that I know from and you probably know as well from he did the music for Star Trek 4 which is not a very well received Musical school for a Star Trek movie, right? But apparently he got the job because he was very I think London Nimor She really wanted him because he was very good friends with him and he wanted to get landed Roseman to score his movie If you put the two Scores together you side by side Star Trek 4 always feels like it's a completely different person if you listen to this He completely misses the mark on that film But he gets it.

So right on the panel the eggs movie there you go. Mm-hmm. I guess you have to find the material that you're suited to I guess so and not just get a job because your best friend gets it for you One day that happened to you, Paul. I don't have a best friend calling do I?

That's true. That's true You're pointing it out to me so Then we see Taylor encounter the and for those who haven't seen the first film and another were of one of the greatest endings of a motion picture Lucky ears now he encounters the half submerged statue of Liberty Taylor false who's needs job you all to hell I know it's become a police show. I know it's apparently so many times and so many things like the Simpsons and various other things But it's a fantastic ending to a movie it's hard to live up to right if you're doing a sequel exactly Especially you put it at the head of your the top of your of your sequel as well Yeah, it's a weird thing right. Do they think people have forgotten I Yeah, because I mean it was such a massive thing this ending wasn't it?

Yeah, and it's only what two years after the first movie the first one was 68 Yeah, so it's weird and it's not like a sharp piece You know we're we're quite into the film. Yeah, we're still seeing clips from the previous film Yeah, it kind of dilutes it a little bit. It's a little bit But it's a little bit I think the less said about Tim Burton's idea of riffing on this ending the better Remember the ending to his movie fortunately no Remind me Paul don't remind me It let it leave it there. He's dreadful It's dreadful you like a friend visit in a patient who was involved in explosion and that telling him about the explosion They'll do it everyone knows what it is.

Everyone knows what it is. I mean boss. Oh Bob step back from the grenade. I will do I want to know We now cotton and riding through the sunset still on a beach then I crossed some sandy hills Sandy Hills top golfers in his time then the moving for a bit margarina the credits are continuing finally we fade to black And that's Chuck keston at the movie except for a few flashbacks in a moment until pretty much the end of the movie then yeah, yeah Yeah, good gig good gig room.

Yeah, just turn up don't do much say a few things here and there It's our party we were actors. It will be our perfect role column, isn't it? Just just turn up say a few things are in there don't really Anyway, don't you mean we read of what looks like a crashed spaceship United States can just be read on its usual urge a man Clampers out He appears to be a chelton histon bearded look alike Is this perturbed NASA space program that all its main astronauts have to look like histon is that what they mean by the right stuff? You'll never be an astronaut.

You don't have the right stuff Look you mean courage determination and it's his eye out to live on the edge. No, you just don't look like chalton heston Well, he is the architect on man's man, isn't he? Oh, yeah, no, no, he's the man's man's man. That's very true and James Francisco's kind of like a more in shape version of chalton heston at this point, isn't he?

Yeah, I know why this guy wanted to do this film because he was tired of playing all the same roles He was on TV and thought this would be a lot of doctors apparently, didn't he? Yeah, always in suits and coats and things and just quite a sharpie body a little bit. Well, why not? Yeah, absolutely quite a few things.

I like James Francis because I think he's an interesting actor So and this this Ash not is called Brent. Yes He's carrying that first a kit I mean a really tiny first a kick that could only hold a couple of plasters at the most It's a weird fit first a kick for a spaceship imagine you run over to the other person He's just a toss up limbs everywhere blood spraying into the air and you just look at your tiny first eight kits Which is filled with Snoopy fiend plasters Although if Paul was the astronaut just be a bottle of whiskey in it. That's all you need I mean, I'll be perfect one of those same burners, wouldn't I? Wait, no, because you would drink it before you got to whoever you were rescuing unless you mean like the same burner would come to you with a Brandi and you'd be like, oh, thank you.

You're vibing me. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Just keep reviving me.

Keep it going. Give me that sending back. I need more revising. Send him back for some more.

Yeah, my brand. Yeah, I'll say here you go back and get more brandy go. Go. Go.

Here you go. He runs over to man on a skipper who is laying on a makeshift bed and you know this guy is going to die Because he doesn't look like Charlton Heston very true. In fact, he is the skipper of the ship, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, maybe that's what the first day kit does it rejuvenates your features back to looking like Charlton Heston Well, it didn't work on Charlton Heston, I did it.

He hasn't got it. So if you don't need to take it to him Yes, yes, we do make it Charlton Heston. That's that's a hester on his prime. Yeah, heston prime No, no, no, nobody go without skipper appears to be blinded in the crash He asks Brent if he's managed to contact Earth, but Brent says no, not a crackle.

I like that line Not a crackle. It's kind of a fun line. Not a crackle. Yeah He says he took an earth time reading just before reentry.

Oh, you like to know the time when you attend free entry palm I don't know. I do. I've did came back three thousand nine hundred and fifty five AD three nine five skipper is startled almighty God No, no, not a G AD not almighty God. Oh, no domina.

I skip her. It's good my error It's revealed they were following Taylor's trajectory Do you remember the band Taylor's trajectory at that 20 minute a cycle failing reentry you used to play it on the wrong speed It was all over in 20 seconds So whatever happened to Taylor has happened to them Brent believes they passed through a haseline curve a bend in time This haseline curve or haseline time curve is also mentioned in the previous film and is named after Otto haseline a scientist a main antagonist of the Third Apes film escape from the planet to the apes No, I never knew that It's just point out here that in plan to the apes when Taylor looks at the Earth clock it doesn't say three nine fifty five It says three nine seventy eight so technically Brent is on earth 23 years before Taylor arrived It's a small detail. I'm sure we can we can let it slide. Yeah clocks wrong crash Yeah, yeah, I mean who's to say that they didn't mess up the first time when Taylor crashed.

Yeah, it's true Yeah, Brent doesn't know what planet they're on but they're breathing and they've plenty of water He says they're going to be all right skipper wishes. You could see the Sun Brent replies. You can still feel it. Yes, but which Sun?

They don't know because the computer is shot and they're lucky to be alive skipper isn't so sure they're lucky I realized is that if it's three nine five five a.d. Then his wife and his daughters are dead everybody you have a new is gone He starts to cry We face cut to Brent covering up a grave now I'm assuming skipper died and Brent has not just buried him alive because of all his crying and moaning No, I would imagine that the skipper died after the realization that he's lost everything that he ever loved in his life That that was his final the final nail in his coffin Brent looks around at the deans overwhelmed by what faces him alone He sits and looks at his water supply empty which is up because seconds ago He said he had plenty and now there's one nice person drinking, but I guess he was just saying that to me skipper feel better I was gonna say he was probably mine. Yeah. Yeah, he hears a horse a horse what?

Where's the sounds coming from he runs back to the ship and sees a woman on a horse on top of the hill She approaches Brent hides but he calls out to her and we know this woman is nova. Mm-hmm. Who are you? Yes, sir Where am I?

We see she has metal dog tags around her neck similar to the ones Brent is wearing he tells that he's not going to hurt her He just wants to know where he is where you from where are your people? How do I get to them? She doesn't answer he realizes that she can't talk but then he sees the dog tags around the neck He grabs them and sees Taylor's name Taylor Taylor Where is he we snap cop between nova's face and scenes of Taylor teaching her his name and her own name And we see him giving her the name tags Taylor wonders where they'll go from there Back with Brent. He wants to know what happened to Taylor is he alive is he hurt?

We don't cut back to Taylor nova encountering a wall of fire electrical storms earthquakes and chasms opening up around them a wall of rock appears Taylor at first thinks he's hallucinating but he can tell that nova sees this too. No, I was getting excited that I think when I interrupt yeah, um when when Taylor's trying to teach her how to speak his name I just thought we got to three weeks later He still sat there trying to still get her to say his name. He's not got any further. She's still looking at him like Taylor my name is Taylor Bob.

My name is Bob Yeah, it's easy. It doesn't matter And I do think that the effects in this are pretty good for its time The fire and the fire wall and all the earthquakes very good very good. Yeah composites shots. Yes He does talk to the way that he talks to you talk to a pet though Yeah, reminded of the way I talked to you I've no idea what you mean.

I'm just gonna say that every time I say that. Okay, that's my cat's raised coloured You're cat phrases. I don't know what you mean It's fine. Okay.

Okay. Taylor gets off the horse and tells nova there. She loses it. She should go and find zero Of course, he's not sure she understands him.

He takes a rifle. He approaches the wall raises his rifle to hit it But he slips through the seemingly solid wall and vanishes the rocky wall disappears nova is left alone in a featureless desert And I'm guessing she just runs off Yeah, I mean what else are you gonna do? We should have gone in though looking for him. There's no way to go.

It's it's all gone. It's just a complete desert now There is no wall. Anyway, it's all gone. That's why you have the long shot of her and an empty desert.

So where did he go? It was a hologram. He disappeared. Yeah, but where do you go?

Yeah, yeah, don't don't think about it Well, if you went to the ground if they put a fake wall up and then you fell through the wall because it was fake Yeah, but then he disappears and then she's in a desert. It's a desert in illusion. She's not really in a complete desert There's a wall she's in a complete. Oh, she's well I think she's in a complete maybe he fell through the floor and there's a thing in the floor trap down the floor It's all when when the wall disappears.

She can't see the trap down in the floor. No, I think you're wrong there All right, I think that they're making her think that she's now in a complete desert when the wall is still there Oh, it wasn't a wall to begin with it wasn't a wall It's something else hiding like an a doorway or something and the water she picks the direction where that is She just goes into it was quite that then then all these mutants that we'll talk about they all these new tints are Dave your really ideas shit Last time we get Dave involved. Yeah, don't Dave Big Dave You don't That's a fact I agree with that and we'll move on now Back with bread to what's the no worse you got the tax from now? It's gonna be a joke at this point because he already knows you can't talk so what's he expecting?

I mean, I suppose he could be assuming that she understands it, but just can't speak Yeah, maybe I mean other than that. I'm just screaming in her face Yeah Anyway, he climbs on a horse asking to be taken to Taylor. They ride through the hills They come to the top of her grassy hill Mova points towards a city below they move a little closer Brent is stuttled. My god.

It's a city of apes No, I just got to say at this point. We're what 20 minutes into the movie now? You would never get away with a slow build up like this in a modern movie, would you? No, but you know what I was watching I think in this is refreshing so I'm feeling I'm nice and relaxed Yes, we're into this film.

It's got it's comfortable Yeah, yeah, there's not there's not Fresh bangs going off in your face within five minutes of the movie started No, no speed ramps. No slow motion. No, no fast cutting No fast cutting does nice. There's a meeting taking place Ursus the general of the city Sami is giving a speech to the assembly I tell you what every good soldier knows the only thing that counts in the end is power Naked merciless bars.

I think these sub boots would be a close second That's true. Yes, that's true. Yeah, the gorillas cheer But the orangutans and the chimpanzees don't I should point out that in this franchise the gorillas have viewed as soldiers and workers The chimpanzees are doctors scientists People and citizens of the society while the orangutans are the politicians lawyers religious leaders and administrators. It's incredibly clever What they're doing?

Yeah, it's not subtext again, you know, I think it if you choose to recognize it That's fine if you're a kid doesn't matter, but it's great. It's there and you don't get that in one movie anymore I don't think you don't think one door in 1984 has Slap you in the face with it. It's not the same is it? No Ursus can to use that as a soldier he sees things simply he doesn't say all humans are evil But the great lawgiver says that humans will never have the apes ability to distinguish between good and evil because the only good human is A dead human.

It's not wrong really We're not great early. Let's face it. You know her first. Mm-hmm.

So Brent watching this says it's a bloody nightmare Yes Ursus continues but those vargents enough to remain alive will have the privilege of being used for science by the good doctor Zeus some applaud zero stands up and sarcastically claps loudly and alone She's told to stop by Cornelius that she's in danger. So it's the future of science She replies with that rebel rouse of commenting a senseless military adventure This is the scene where the some of the apes look a bit off the worst scene in the movie Oh in the audience and it's no wonder a lot of them are keeping their heads down because I would Interpreter that way, but yeah, they don't look right somebody actually look a bit off Yeah, I don't think it helps as well They put them next to ones that I've got decent makeup on right so it's not just ones further back everywhere If you look at the old it's worse with the chimpanzee's you look at the shot of all the chimpanzees sat together They've got they've got people in obvious pull over masks next to people that were in decent makeup And it's quite jarring it stands out right it is what 50 years old Yeah Earth's continues the forbidden zone has been closed for centuries, but they have New evidence that it is inhabited by what or who we don't know we need to replenish these lands that were ravaged by the humans with the new Improved feeding grounds he believes the forbidden zone is where they can achieve this the gorillas She already talked about invading and increasing power the orangutan's and chimpanzees reluctantly joining except for zero It refuses to stand up and applaud until Cornelius forces her to stand because Ursus is watching Brent on the hillside realizes he can't stay there. They head back up the hill towards their heart suddenly they hear sounds Soldier is approaching they are into the bushes and he follows they hide amongst the trees the gorilla his sound and fires He hits Brent in the shoulder just a flesh wound, but then a bird flies out of the bushes and the soldier thinks that's what he was hearing Did you notice the design of all the weapons? They're all carved out of wood.

Oh, no. Oh, okay. I don't remember them looking like that in the first movie though They were just guns. How do they look in guns?

Just Do they put a little bit more thought into this movie I think in that respect? Right, they're not at the level of metal work, but they work before Would have gone made of wood actually work Don't know enough about guns. They must have metal or what they must have metal work Because I'm sure that you could make the inside of a gun that the mechanism of the gun would could you it have to be metal? Right and there's metal like belts and things so maybe they just they just the casing of the gun they just make out of wood Maybe it's an interesting designer.

Wow. Yeah for all our gun fans out there Yeah, so show we have rather than we We cut to doctors AS and general versus having a sana together It's a bit odd because I can't imagine that's comfortable for an ape. Oh, especially a person in an ape suit. Oh these these apes suits They do look a bit 1950s sci-fi don't they?

Yeah, they do. Yeah I mean sana seems to have been popular in films and TV shows in the 70s. Yeah, the one that stands In my mind is the famous sawness seen in Spartacus. Yeah, also sesky hutch.

Yes, that's true. Yeah multiple scenes in saunas Here I can see why doctors a is the politician to statesman while Ursus is the aggressive soldier They don't really see eye to eye but here naked in the sauna. They are both vulnerable and unequal footed It is the one place where they can openly talk without fear of each other Yeah, and also do you not think on a basic level as well that it's very exposition heavy this scene so to set it in a in a Situation that isn't typical that we've seen before Gives it a little bit more life must have been uncomfortable though, but we're in those great big ape suits I mean, I assume it probably wasn't as warm as you think it is. It's not a real sauna, but still Yeah, and they're probably not they're not normally wearing the full outfit.

No, they're just wearing the headgear in the gloves Yeah, and sucks and sucks and underpants eight pants eight pounds. That's what I called them Okay Duxus ais wonders if the general knows what he's doing Ursus doesn't know how zes could have any doubts after all they've been receiving reports of strange manifestations in the Forbidden Zone Paul when was the last time you had a strange manifestation in your forbidden zone? I can't remember No, it's so long Meets forbidden for a start. I don't go near it.

That's true for me. It was Wednesday. I had a strange manifestation in my forbidden zone Turn out to be a Peruvian explorer. I don't know he was more surprised him on me especially since riding a donkey Oh, I'm just I don't know He points out that dr.

Zayers says pastrif sites hasn't been able to fathom this manifestation out and that 12 of the general scouts have vanished in the zone So yes, correct soon 11 because the 12th return to a star is a huge walls of fire strange violent earthquakes Ursus says the soldiers mind was probably affected by some unsimian like torture No, when did this happen? Well, how much time is passed between the first movie and the second movie because there's none of this is mentioned in the first movie at all Well, it could be like months years Well, we're already screwed up on time because the clocks are different. Yeah, I was it meaningless. Yeah, okay It okay, remember is Taylor clean shaven in this film I know you going yeah, dr.

Zayers thinks Ursus has been hasty knows a sirsis It's nice if we don't evade we stir and what is more dangerous than famine the unknown replies dr. Zayers I agree with that, but okay, you think the unknown is less dangerous than farming well I mean that's true because the unknown could be nothing because you don't know it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah You should have his doctorate taken away probably got it online anyway Not real doctor.

I love that your questioning the validity of dr. Zayers is credentials Has anybody checked probably not? No, probably not. That's what dr.

Zero should do check his credentials We don't know what the you know the academic situation in terms of ape society is the way Does he does he have to spend eggs amount of years at medical school to become a doctor? What doctor is he what's he's doctor in? We don't know we don't know any of this that's true. We know we know what dr.

Zero. Yes. She's doctor She's a vet basically isn't she for humans. Yeah, but we don't know so we don't Do you think he's diplomas hung the doctor of life?

Yes, he's diplomas to some of his well written in his own He's own man. Yeah, correct No, he's a rangatax probably written his own shit, isn't it? Yeah, probably yeah What are you doing Wednesday? Oh, I'm getting another doctor on Wednesday first day.

You know what I'm doing Thursday. Just another doctor Every day my doctor. Yeah, I think you're right. I think there's something fishy about doctors.

I says credentials Yeah, yeah, yeah, we cut to Brent and over sneaking into the city Meanwhile Cornelius and zero enter the home. She's pointing out that instead of dissecting humans brains She should be open up gorillas minds to see what went wrong And they discuss power and the fact that gorillas are you know, bit stupid meanwhile no over and brain to listening No, the steps out and Brent falls at first zero thinks it's Taylor Which goes back to my being that he's a child like makes perfect sense. Yeah, so this whole scene all these scenes in Cornelius and zeros is hope It's gonna shot like it's some kind of sitcom. Oh, you wanted a laugh track.

Well, it doesn't look like the rest of the movie Shot like a sitcom. It's shot with like, you know, you Wide shots of the room and the way that they're talking to each other. It's very it's very much reminiscent of things like the honeymooners and things like that Well, it does it does yes Bangsoom to the moon I don't think they have to have me to movement as penetrate a society No, it's not You watch a conny loose and zero sitcom Yeah, I think I would I like them You put in my relationship to a monkey business. Well, not really there's already been a couple of films called that fun.

That's true. Yeah, but what could we call it? What could we call it? This could be a while Champensee Champensee, Champensee, Eera Champensee, that's what you going with.

I'm going with it. All right, that's all I've got Cornelius and zero are amazed you can talk after all they only found one of her liking They revealed that they don't know where Taylor is Cornelius tells me that zero is the reason Taylor isn't a stuffed exhibition in the great hall like his two friends Well, like a eight perversion of body worlds. That's true. And he's talking about the ones in the first movies and either Taylor.

Yes. Yeah, yeah Brent asks for some food and water so we can get out and a map zero clintys wounds and Cornelius gets the map He shows with the last time they saw Taylor and this is where zero feels she is a train vet Cornelius says that Taylor is heading towards the Forbidden Zone suddenly there's a knock on the door They had an over and Brent is Dr. Zayos He's come to dark some sense into zero She's holding the blooded cloth from Brent's wound to her face and says that Cornelius hit her for her bad behavior at the meeting Dr. Zayos doesn't blame him and zero say she doesn't present it, but his nails need clipping Yeah, this is I do say here that so in in 3955 AD some 1970s spousal abuse was acceptable even in the world of apes Yeah, it is a bit It's a bit uncomfortable even though you're looking at people dressed as apes you still think oh this is a bit This is a bit on the nose of it wrong, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got to say at this point now that Brent is taking all this in his stride very well Considering that what he's been about half a day since he crafted landed on this planet and he's met talking apes He's doing alright. I don't think I don't really what I don't think Taylor took it this easily did he in the first movie so in many respects He's superior to a Charlton Heston. I guess it depends on you I some people just you know they accept the idea of talking apes and then do a podcast with one Again I don't know what you're talking about What nothing nothing Dr.

Zeyer says that Ursus now has the incident he requires to go on a rampage of conquest Zira believes they can no longer stand quietly by Zeyer says Minister of Science it is his duty to find out if other forms of life exist He is going versus into the Forbidden Zone because something has outwitted the intelligence of the gorillas and that's jumpy difficult we mark Zira Dr. Zeyer's Chainty's tunes is the first movie about the Forbidden Zone, hasn't he? Yeah, he has I guess his curiosity his scientific And I suppose that curiosity is yeah, I suppose that if he's saying we've already said we don't know what the timescave it So they've obviously sent scouting parties out into the Forbidden Zone Then what would you if it's the Forbidden Zone? So why would you go there?

Well, he's doesn't really he's like they've been told this The Forbidden Zone by the law given but it's just words in a book kind of I think they need to expand also he sees the Forbidden Zone as a danger and he wants to conquer that danger, okay? Yeah, and there's a famine, you know they need new places to cultivate Dr. Zeyer says that the apes have learned to live in innocence Let no one beat man or some other creature dare to contaminate innocence. Zira is unimpressed is Innocence so evil Zeyer's asks her ignorance is there is a time for truth and that time is always now Zeyer's asks her to put aside a principle while he's gone a truce on her personal feelings in an hour of public danger Can he leave his chives in you shall have it or I'll hit her again.

Yeah Dr. Zeyer says if he doesn't return then the whole civilization movie does to save or to destroy and he leaves Brent and Nova leave their hiding place. Zira says she'll get him some clothes and they should hide his dogtacks Cornelius tells you not to speak because if he's captured they'll dissect him then kill him in that order He sees fangs, Zira applies fankers by finding Taylor They leave and in the woods Brent gets changed into the clothes He's given and they ride through the woods suddenly the horse is shot and they go flying There's a moment when Brent's changing in the woods when Nova turns around and gives him a bit of a look up in Nome, isn't there? Yeah, there is I can't help but think that she's thinking that she's traded up for a younger model Yeah, it looks like she's just She doesn't have any better does she?

She fell strong put what is she come on she's a primitive Well, I can recognize Jane Francisco from Charlton Heston Could you in a line up? I think I could yes If it was if it was if it was Charlton Heston James Francisco and you in a line up I could pick out Charlton Heston easily Alright, yeah, not really much of a line And exactly taxing yourself there, right? I'm just wondering how I could do that No, I feel like this is like a quiz showing the making No, I haven't got anything chucky time Chucky time where you have to discover no, I don't think it'll be Charlton Heston all the time has to be different people Otherwise that's going to be easy for you. I'm gonna run out of Charlton Heston lookalikes NASA's only got so many Yeah, but you you mentioned before that that's the only people that they employ Anyway, okay, so maybe there's hundreds of Charlton Heston lookalikes on NASA.

I mean, I'm assuming it's NASA It's never actually mentioned is it no don't know you don't really see it in this movie But don't you see the NASA logo on his jumpsuit in the first movie? Oh, maybe you do okay, all right Suddenly the hostage shot and they go flying they see gorillas watching them and run the gorillas give chase They run into a net and a trap the soldiers chain them up and take them to cages with other humans in You have a human sense that Brent is different We cut to scenes the soldiers attacking and trapping humans Brent and over caged and occurred and taken to somewhere else along the way He sees the gorillas preparing for war. We see humans being whipped hunted chained down and used as target practice Eventually they reach the destination. It is a laboratory run by zero and Cornelius She sees Brent and tells the sergeant to not cage him up.

She pretends that she's interested in his head Because it is a type E cranium weak occipital development and substandard lobe Sorry, that's not from the film. I'm just reading your medical notes, pal Private I'll shred them. I'm pretty sure that during that uh montage of the the apes training with the With the humans as target practice that some of that horseplay wouldn't be allowed in a modern movie I mean when they drag that net over that guy on that horse and the horse actually turns completely over It doesn't look right No They look so So when you said horseplay you actually meant horseplay. Oh, I meant horseplay.

Yes. Yeah, it just it just looks a bit Off and a bit painful for the horse You know, they literally pull it completely over I'm surprised they hadn't caught that in the UK version because they don't usually accept any more cruelty and Film yeah, and I watch the blu ray from from my blu ray set so it's still there right um No, when they go into the um Laboratory or whatever it is that that she works in is she meant to be neutering that guy on the table because he's laying Splayed out and she's uh, she's up in his nethers Yeah, maybe maybe she's seeing how it works I think she she's not very good. But if she doesn't know it works That's how you find out anybody examining although I think I think the application is she's neutering him Well, how yeah, I suppose yeah Yeah, cast rating. I guess so because you're not going to be examining at this point.

You examine one a human So you don't want them to breathe. Yeah, you don't want them to breathe do you say? But do you not want them to breathe because they're using the slaves to do stuff so you need more, right? Are these just the users?

I suppose you want to limit how many you have done. Yeah, that's true. Yeah I'll be concerned that we're planning our eugenics, uh Oh, we're just trying to figure out logic of the film really. Okay.

All right, okay Zero once then brought inside but Ursa says no the amount of target practice they are taken away They're caged up and they're being transported to a target range Zero secretly takes the key to the cage. She tells the driver to halt while she double locks the door But in doing so she really unlocks it. She whispers good luck to Brent and they're carried away As the kurt travels down the lane Brent climbs out of the back onto the top of the cage He pulls the driver back and a fight between them breaks out while the kurt and harz is right how to control Brent manages to push the driver up and the driver hits a tree branch and is knocked off Bread grabs the reins of the horses and brings the kurt to a stop He unbuckles the horses on shackles nova and the climb on the horses and right away Meanwhile the gorilla sees them under patrol gives chase pretty sure gorilla could just rip his arm off can really But then again, I suppose that they are they're not they're not the gorillas that we know Are they they're evolved by what about 2000 years? Yeah, which I suppose explains why they look more like humans in a way that they walk and All right, so I completely taught myself out of that so Okay, good It's a train of thought to talk me somewhere and then talk me out of it completely Sorry The fire at Brent and Nova they come to high mountain peaks that can't take the horses any further They start to climb but and scramble through the rocks that go to close behind eventually Brent and Nova find a cave and head in Guards don't follow not not sure why they don't follow them.

It's not like the cave is here No, they don't follow them because they've got a great attitude to work It looks a bit too dangerous. It looks a bit too much like hard work I mean, you know, they got away, right So, you know sounds familiar, right? No, no, I'll just say, you know, they've got away at this point. So Waterpoint so we're just wondering around up here and pretend we're looking for that.

Yeah, yeah, I wonder about having a bit of a sit, you know Got it Down below the scraggy rocks turn into human manufactured tiles Brent see something dusty and wipes away at it to reveal the word Telephone it's a public telephone and he's in a subway system He sees a name on the tiles Queensborough Plaza He jumps down onto the track and finds an old poster that says New York on it Yeah, so Queensborough Plaza is in Long Island City, Queens, New York So we're in New York basically. This used to be my home. I lived here. Well, was he homeless?

I'll play to be livid. I think you're taking it literally Oh, that's the only way I like to take it He looks at the ruins and asks did we do it? Did we finally do it? To be fair, I often think that when I'm in the New York subway, some of the stations look like they've been in a nuclear accident Anyway, does it look a bit post-apocalyptic does it?

Yeah, so it's here to tell okay We cut to a minister giving a prayer to the lawgiver blessing the general's troops Zeyas looks embarrassed The troops begin to assemble and leave the city dr. Zeyas is alongside versus meanwhile zero and Cornelius watch Zeyas it's time for a change, but Cornelius doesn't know how they can take control when there's so few chimpanzees As the war party leaves the city to encounter small protests of chimpanzees No more lies. No more crud. No more guns.

No more blood. Stop the war This is obviously a commentary on what was going on in America at that time And it was yes probably very on the nose to a lot of people I mean that with all the you know the young people protesting as the war and being manhandled away Um, it was probably probably quite deep. I would have thought yeah, and that's what that's what the that's what the plan The X movies do really well all the way through the series. I think yeah, yeah, even escape But it's good fun.

It's a fun movie that one These protesters sit down in front of the war party blocking the road the general others then remove but dr. Zeyas says we don't want matters So they're removed peacefully they're dragged away and placed in cages the war party continues to leave the city, you know Considering so all these chimpanzees around I still think it's a shame this film's really missing a nice cup of tea So Brett and over resting in the underground station Brett notices water dripping from a rock and goes to quenci's thirst before taking another look around He looks at he looks at jumping whenever you've got anything, you know Brent goes to look outside the cave but the apes are still sitting around and waiting and it amuses me How they're all just talking like soldiers Momenting about the detail and they're just they're just talking like just just guys just oh in this opinion. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, yeah That's fun. That's fun.

Brent goes back inside. He wakes over and they set off down the tunnel suddenly they hear a low hum And they have to look for its source. They reach a large cave With the ladder leading up to another tunnel Brent says that whoever they are they're guiding us and that they must breathe her Why because they're breathing her but what what a weird statement to say what I mean What what would give him the impression that they wouldn't breathe her? Yeah, for a bite Brent goes to climb the ladder and he realizes that every time he touches the ladder the hum stops They're just playing with him at this point, aren't they?

Yeah, it's a bit easy to get into this place though, isn't it? Well, they're leading him, aren't they? They want him to come right? Yeah, he reasons that there must be an intelligence behind all this is the hum a warning or a directional device The only way to find out is to head on in there and that's what they do They climb up into the tunnel They emerge into what looks like the old city buried on the rock and there's quite a lot of Really good matte painting shots in this, I think Yep, yep Queensborough Plaza is about an hour's walk from the New York Public Library, fair enough Uh New York Radio City Hall?

It's not too far. Sorry, that's not too bad. Yeah, yeah New York's stuck exchange is an hour's walk from the New York Public Library, it's at the southern end of Manhattan So there's some weird geography going on with New York at this point As they explore deeper the hum intensifies until suddenly it stops We're not shutting them Yeah, they reach what looks like the doors to a huge cathedral There's a fountain outside filled with water, but when Brent tries to drink it, he spits out It's rancid They walk slowly towards the doors when suddenly a fountain begins to spur new water Brent approaches it cautiously and takes another sip, but luckily this water is good And he urges Nova to also drink all of a sudden a high-pitched hum sounds Brent seems to lose control himself He grips Nova's throat holding her head under the water drowning her She struggles until Brent lets go and snag her back against the wall Get out of my head he screams back into the doors and entering the cathedral Like I started him running for you, you know? We've all had nights like this What?

What is it with the 60s and 70s where the idea of sound as a weapon? It seems obsessed with sound as a weapon back then Yeah, they did it like in Star Trek as well didn't they? Yes Yeah Yeah, I think it's very very It's a very new thing that people are experimenting with at the time It could be and it's also weirdly for the fact that it's time It's also a visual thing as well isn't it? Because it gives the accurate sheep as well It is yeah It's cheap You don't need to put any effects on it's just a guy or a woman clutching their head How many times in Star Trek did we see Captain Kirk pluck his head and fling himself backwards Yeah, yeah I'm pretty sure in our last podcast there's a moment where people will be clutching their heads and screaming Yes, inside the Cathedral Brents stirs in disbelief at what looks like a nuclear missile set up as an altar with a man in robes crying beneath it You cried before an altar in your time, isn't it?

Yeah, I have Yes, you wanna expand on that Colin? Oh yeah sure I remember in the mid 90s where you had the altar to Erika Eliniac You often found on your knees crying before it Me? Me? Me?

Erika Elinac I've had another golden name but yeah Erika Was it Erika? I can't even say it because I don't... I wasn't me I mean I was a fan of Linda Hamilton Do you have to debut to the Beast? Oh we are gonna do beauty the Beast at some point Colin, don't you worry about that Trust me, I'm gonna be sick now Sorry for...

I've come down with something I can't do it Do it with some other person who's available And what would be the fun in that? We got history with being the Beast So that'll be good You've got history No, we've got history How many arguments have we had about being the Beast? How many episodes are out of beauty in the Beast? There's three seasons So I'll say 75 episodes of the guests Yeah, yeah 75 arguments we've had then The man holds up his arms and says I reveal my innermost self to my god Any Sandy holds some?

What was that? What was that? I just... Does a god really need to see your innermost self?

Well he's omnipotent isn't he? We can have children, we talk about Any Sandy holds something But we can't see what it is Well, say it off it Yeah, keep going Brett runs back to the doors But the man in robes turns to look at him And this Robe figure is a Miami Vice connection Did you notice that? Nope, late on me par This Robe figure played Lieutenant Castillos predecessor In the first few episodes of Miami Vice Can you remember his character's name? Lou That's the one It's one of the weird things about Miami Vice Is that's the most unoriginal thing that they did in the whole series And he's a very...

He's a very stereotypical... Yeah, shouty Yeah, yeah This is that guy Did not recognise him at all He's a little bit younger, obviously Brett starts conversation with the figure But the man communicates by telepathy I mean, only hear what Brent's side of the conversation is As he asks if the others will hurt and over Maybe not physically But here in the head telepathically And the rogue man's side of the conversation Is illustrated by Sounds only It's like little pings and words And beeps and things, isn't it? Yeah Again, Brent takes this all rather well, I think You know, he's he's he's encoded telepathy now It's not much else you can do at this point though No, he's on a day's work for Brent Yes, yeah Suddenly two more rogue figures Grab Brent and lead him away And we got to another room Where more of these rogue figures Stand on what looks like a chessboard Watching a vision of what just happened in the cathedral They watch as Brent is like a way Past a group of children dressed the same as the rogue figures Who all look like they're playing a variation of Ring the Ring of Ring the Roses Oh really? Yeah, they're singing it Oh, they?

Oh, that's the snooze to this point You did look a bit lost I have the director's cut Where they're actually singing another brick in the wall Oh really? Oh yeah, totally different Oh, that's interesting In my version of the singing Ring of the Roses Oh no, another brick in the wall Really? No, not really, Paul Making it up Actually, please Teacher Leave those kids alone I'm not going for a second, though I leave completely All we are is Another brick in the wall Yeah, that's the version I watch about If you went to something that I bought Would you have what? You paid for it?

I would have, yes Yeah? I'd have bought the movie again Just for the variation in the song Oh, we should never have said anything now I'd like to have seen that Look on your face Telling all your friends Get ready for this bit You never guess what they've done here On the American version Ring a ring of roses What? In my defense, sometimes there are differences In choices of music or songs and things In really... Yeah, yeah Yeah, in your defense Yes, that's what I'm sticking to Brantis led to a hallway Past lots of busts of men and women I really shouldn't have written it that way He's in a room with statues Oh, yeah, that's a better way of saying it, isn't it?

He's led into a room, another room And he's lots of rooms And faces what looks to be the leaders of these people He asks who they are, but they remain silent One of them seems to be King Tutt from Batman Means nothing to me, pal I mean, obviously I understand the words Batman and King Tut But put them together and it means nothing to me It's the guy that played King Tut in Batman 1966 As they call it these days Oh, there's a King Tut in Batman 1966 There is, yes Does he just come on and go? No, he's a college professor who gets it in the head And thinks that he's the reincarnation of King Tuttut He's all very well done in the 1960s Batman kind of way They question him telepathically asking his name How he got there? They believe he's a spy He tells them about Taylor And they show an image of Taylor behind some kind of bars Lines with shots Oh, not that kind of bear No, not those guys Unfortunately not No, no Brent tries to explain that they're here out of time They ask him, does he know how to get back? But he doesn't know Then they ask him right now And he fangs ignorance Suddenly they attack him telepathically Causing him great pain Until he relents and admits that he does know over And he tells them that she's harmless And a friend That she helped him break out with Ape City You think they know all this?

They tell a pafic It seems very hit and miss what they know and what they don't know I don't know if you've mentioned it yet But they have the ability of creating an illusion of flame And of sonic deterrence And they say that it's all an illusion How is sonic pain and illusion? It hurts Yeah, that's not illusion, is it? No No, it's almost like it hasn't been thought through very well It's a little nodal at this point I do think the mutant part of this movie Is that that it doesn't quite gel very well Feels a bit slapdash and a little bit sort of I'll just go with it At this point we'll go with it, be fine They suddenly bombard him with more questions all at once Which he finds painful to take We've all been there But Brent screams that he can't take all the telepathic questions And you couldn't watch this section because you've had epilepsy Because it's flashing all over the place The questions suddenly start from the leader finally speaks Saying that Brett must have limited intelligence Choo-choo And that they all need to speak aloud One at a time for him to be able to process it I always find that annoying about the telepaths That they always consider themselves Higher intelligence Just because they can project their farts into your head Instead of speaking You know what this reminded me of Reminding me of that terrible Well, it's odd I think it's terrible A lot of people do The terrible The so-called terrible Star Trek episode in the third season The one with Captain Kirk Pretends to be a donkey Oh, alright You know what I mean? It's one with the famous kiss Quite well, quote kiss Isn't really a kiss But yeah, it reminded me of that Yeah, but I'm saying I just find it annoying about telepaths The jumps up ideas about projecting the farts into people's head Is some kind of greater skill When in fact speaking eloquently Something we often fail at doing Is very easily Higher form of communication than just Banging your farts into someone else's head That's very true I mean we fail at it Most of the time because we're drunk Yeah, if we could do a telepathic podcast It'd be odd We'd be the best telepathic podcast Yeah, going And that was difficult to say If I had not seen Breathing a point, right?

Yeah That is speech It's heard And these telepaths They need to get off the high horse They do Yeah, I completely agree with you Colin I think we should start a movement Yeah, like the other generation I'm glad you went with that Not the other thing Oh, a bowel movement Yes No, no It's not going to shit now is it? Is that what you're saying? Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah They ask They ask Just think about it What? Far from an image in your head I'll try not to No, like a telepath Alright, okay We're not with that Just be a sound of like tumbleweed See, you've been mean again Oh, it's both of us I went just being specific to you Oh, thank you very much It's unlike you But okay I thought I thought you deserved at least what Oh, thank you Um, they asked him about being in 8-0 Hold on, let me just make a note That I've done that for the year Sorry, they asked him about his time in the city of the apes What he saw there Grant realises suddenly that they're speaking to him with the moments They admit that they can speak They use it when they pray And when they talk to the god Wait, so the god can't pick up their telepathic thoughts?

I guess not We have to shout at him Well, so this god is a primitive A limited intelligence Is he referred to a friend? He's a missile, isn't he? Yeah, but they don't think of him as a missile They think him as a god But he's a god that can't pick up their telepathic thoughts Only for yellowed him What? What's that?

What are you? Can you pray louder? louder? Can I hear you?

You don't have to trumpet things Right Yeah You want a donkey? Oh, there's monkeys What? I don't know, I deal with these guys I say Why are they using telepathy? Brent realises that they are worshiping the atomic bomb in the cathedral They call it a holy weapon of peace Which immuses him greatly until suddenly The high-pitched hum returns causing him great pain They release Brent and tell him that they must know Whether the apes want war or peace And that the only weapons that they have Are the powers of the mind and illusions They demonstrate to him what?

Sorry. What's that magician? Like a pulled down yours or a David Carrperville? It was like No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no David McGhee and Sarah Naff Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, they did dare. There's some cheesy music playing Give us a second Don't look at the hand for coming with that It works in rehearsal, trust me They demonstrate to him how they use visual illusions There you go Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Such as fire and audio illusions such as the sonic vibration Not an illusion It's not, no It's sonic Brent becomes angry and questions the hypocrisy He asks them if the bomb is alive But they don't reply No, that's not what he asks He doesn't ask if it's alive, does it? He asks if it's alive Is that bad? Is that bad?

Is it breathing? No, it's a bomb Oh, you're mad, Brent? I'll do it again Well, it's Brent, whatever your name is Because we can't remember Brent becomes angry and questions the hypocrisy He asks them if the bomb is alive But they don't reply They go on to say that they are the keepers of the bomb It is our only purpose And that they are defenseless against the slaughterous Materialistic apes Why the materialistic? You don't see them going shopping all the sudden You don't have to just go about clutch bags Exactly Why the materialistic?

Because they're like bananas a lot? I mean, what? What's going on? Actually, you never see me bananas in this film You're doing the first movie, I think, don't you?

Yeah, I don't know why they are It's realistic Because they covet lands But then they just covet the lands To survive? Grow crops? Yeah, I don't know It's a good point Brent just views them all with disgust And then hopes that they both annihilate each other Mm, prophetic And then things hold on, I'm on the planet Yeah, wait, wait, I've left And then annihilate each other They tell them that they caught some of the apes' scouts I don't mean, you know Wow How many bajas you got? Well, this one is for killing humans This one, this one, this one is for hanging humans This one is for fleeing humans I'm not a result of them above you I'm not a result of any animals Wiggles.

No, just killing humans It's got life No, the question involves chopping your rethroat Of course Brent then says that he doesn't know anything about the apes Certainly no. Brent implores them not to hurt her. She can't even talk, he says, but they tell him that they never hurt anyone. Not strictly true, is it?

No. Using their powers, they force Brent to kiss Nova while at the same time, throttling her. She drops to the floor and Brent tries to fool them with a lie, but they tell him that they know if he's being truthful, so they can read minds as well. Yeah, which, why are they questioning him?

Yeah, if they can read the mind. And why do they eventually get beaten? Because if they can read minds, they'd be one step ahead of everybody that's trying to get to them every time, wouldn't they? Can't read the minds of the apes because the skulls are too thick.

This is, yeah. Is there any point in the movie? Or maybe I should mention this later. I'll mention it now.

Is there any point in the movie where they explicitly say that they can influence the apes in the same way that they influence Brent and Nova and Taylor? Because why don't they just get the apes to kill each other? Because they do say they can't create sonic pain because the ape skulls are too thick. They do say that.

So that's why they make it, but then all right, that's the sonic pain part. That's why they can't get them to kill each other? Yeah, I think that's the implications. It's connected to that.

Yeah, because that always bothered me. It's like why don't they just get the apes to kill each other? Because you must kill each other is a big thing that's going to come up in just a moment. Isn't it?

Right. Yeah. Nova comes to but he's terrified Brent. Brent tells them finally that the apes are marching on the Forbidden City.

We cut to a shot of the apes marching through the desert. It's an impressive shot. There's lots of extras. It's all I mean today this would be done with lots of CGI, but it's a real people marching through the desert.

Yeah. They advanced towards the rock walls and find a vision of crucified apes burning in fires. The soldiers are terrified and this is pretty full up. Yeah.

I mean they're upside down crucified screaming there's fire everywhere. There's blood all over the place. This is the kids movie. Yeah.

Well, that's what you say. Yeah. Dr. Zaius tells the general that he told him that they would be facing terrorists such as this.

The general Ursus vows to make them pay for what they've done. He's not that bright. No, he's not. But then why is Dr.

Zaius so clever? Why does he get all this? He never seems to be particularly phased by it. He works very quickly now, doesn't he?

Oh yeah, I don't understand how he knows it's a vision. This is always that question because Dr. Zaius knows a lot more than what he's laying on. That's even in the first movie as well, isn't it?

Yeah. Dr. Zaius asks the general to put the tortured apes over the misery and shoot them. But the general insists that you can order them to do what the law giver is forbidden them to do.

Ape shall not kill ape. Suddenly a burning statue of the law giver appears and tears a blood flow from its eyes. This sends the gorillas into a frenzy. Dr.

Zaius suddenly realizes, suddenly realizes, that this is just a vision and rides into the fire, but nothing happens. The statue collapses into a fireball and then everything suddenly disappears. I wonder if he knows that it's a vision because deep down he understands that the whole law giver thing is a nonsense? Yeah, could be.

That would make sense. I always get the impression that Dr. Zaius probably read stuff about humans as well, that only he's seen. But he just seemed to be more cynical than the rest of them.

Right. I think as well. Which makes him a very good foil for Taylor, I think, in the first movie. It does.

Because there's an understanding between the two of them that they're both full of shit. It's kind of like us. We don't understand the thing. No.

But we're both full of shit. Yeah, you're very true. Dr. Zaius declares the vision false and the general orders the advance.

I'm pretty sure that I still wouldn't advance after seeing that. I'd advance, but I'd be very slow and at the back. Come on, just to be an order, pal. No, no, just, you know, shuffle back with the worst post who have all been watching all this unfold on the vision Netflix channel that they've got.

Nice. There's just one guy though, he's just watching Tom and Jerry. He's just done a different channel from the rest of them. Exactly for the password.

So can I pick up? Yeah. Jeep skate. They're all on Netflix and there's just one on Brit bar.

He's watching rising damp. He knows where he's coming from. Yeah. They call the apes stupid animals.

I mean, that's stupid. They figured it out. Yeah. They admit now that they have no defense against the apes except for the bomb.

The leader orders the direction of the ape city to be programmed into the rocket and that all the adults should head to the cathedral and that all the children should be kept indoors indoors were. It's all indoors. They're under ground. That's not going to help them anyway.

Not really. The apes continue their events. They reach the edge of a cliff overlooking an impressive map painting of a ruin in New York. Later in the cathedral, whole congregation is singing hymns as an organ plays.

Brenton over, now dressed in robes, are sitting watching all of this unfold. The leader prays before the bomb, praising the bomb and it's cleansing fire. This is all a bit weird and a bit off-kilter now, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

It's got a bit hard. He manipulates some controls which do look a lot like the controls of Superman's forces of solitude. Maybe that's what it is? Well, there was an incorrect moving myth that they used the same models and props in Superman from this movie, but it isn't true because Superman was shot in the UK and this was shot in the UK.

Yeah, it's gonna say. But it is a thing that a lot of people believe, apparently. It's one of those weird internet room of things. Right.

Glory be to the bombs as a leader and to the holy fallout. We've had a few of those in our time. I'm wondering. Yeah.

The praising and singing continues and the leader asks the bomb for deliverance and peace. Brent just watches, concerned, dread, upon his face. Behold the truth that is inside of us, says the leader. Everyone stands and in unison says, I reveal my innermost self to my God.

God's going on. God, not again. They're all just revealing themselves. Can you imagine if you have to do this in Church of England?

Did you go to a Church of England? Yes. Prime school? Yes.

Yes. Every Wednesday you had assembled. You can reveal yourself at the church or your God. And reveal yourself to my God.

That's why there's so many priests from the 80s being locked up these days. They reach up and everyone removes their face. They're all wearing masks. Their real faces are disfigured, mutated, masses of veins and scarred tissue.

They are mutants. Next, everyone launches into rendition of all things bright and beautiful. No, don't tell it me. This was an exactly song on your version.

Got it. I'm going to be really disappointed at this point. It was actually a cat. No, I don't know.

Right. You don't care about that. The leader tells everyone to go to the private shelter. Oh, it's a bit elitist, isn't it?

Yeah, private shelter. Booper? Oh, he asks. Wait, if he's telling everyone to go to it, why is it private?

Yeah, he's not thought that one's very good, really. No. Is that? Wait, no, I'm in God of the public one.

Oh, damn. My gold plate of toilet is going to be ruined. No, this whole sequence is fantastic. It is disturbing.

It's very much a product of its time. That whole fear of the bomb and nuclear world was probably very much in everyone's mind at this point. This is what all the good planet of the age movies do so well. They pick up on what's relevant and time period and then reflect it back at the audience, don't they?

Yeah. As they take Brent back to his cell, he asks them when they can hope to be set free. You may hope whenever you please, revise his captor. All right.

How can we set you free? That's another of his captors. You've learned too many of our secrets. Like your friend, he tells him.

Who's he talking about? His secret imaginary friend called the artist. They open a cell door and a man turns around. It's Taylor, Chuck Heston's back in the movie.

Hey, right. You can imagine the audience going, hey, he's back. We don't have to look at this guy, we don't know who he is or anything. Then just looking at the watches going, not back for that.

Maybe they think, oh, maybe there's another two hours this movie, like maybe Heston's going to take charge of the movie now. He's going to ride rough shot over the entire film. All right, let's see. Carry on, par.

They get back together, explaining to each other how they got there and what happened to them in the desert. Taylor asks about Nova and Brent explains that she's with him. He also explains that the people use their powers to try and make him kill Nova. But again, I do his listening tells them that they're a peaceful people and that they do not kill their enemies.

Instead, they get their enemies to kill themselves. That's a lousy way of getting out of it. I've got a problem with this and I'll tell you why in a moment. Brenton Taylor, back away as the guard uses his powers to force the two men to fight each other like savages.

Why doesn't he just get them to strangle themselves? You can't struggle yourself. If they can control what they do, they can control them, make them fight each other. No, because you would fall unconscious.

Okay, how about this then? The spikes on the door. Why don't you just get them to run into the spikes? Well, maybe they can only get them to kill each other, but you can't kill yourself because their passion to stay alive is too strong.

I think it's more of the fact that they're getting some kind of sadistic pleasure about it. Because I mean, when you make some fight in a moment, he's kind of smiling as he's watching them do it. Oh, so you're saying it's a farmer of entertainment and enjoyment from it? Okay.

I think it's another illustration about how humans are pretty bad. Right. There's not a lot of redeeming qualities about humans. You know, we find pleasure in people's misfortune and pain.

I mean, that's why we do this podcast. So to inflict pain? On other people, yes. Okay, that's just what you were saying.

All right. It's a brutal fight and the two men almost kill each other as Taylor smashes Brent's head against the wall. The guard asks another man to hand him a mace. He opens the door and throws the weapon onto the ground.

The fight continues. Brent swings the mace trying to kill Taylor. He's a good fight. Yeah.

Yeah, I didn't write this in my notes, but when I was watching it, I remember thinking to myself, this rivals, they live for a fight sequence. Yeah, although I think that's more played for last. This is quite brutal, isn't it? Like most of this movie, it's quite brutal.

It is, but I also think this is played for time. Yeah, it looks a bit stagey as well. It's brutal, but it's staging. But that was how fun scenes were about.

Nova hears the fight as she's been led to Hersel and runs from her captor to see the two men fighting. Suddenly she screams Taylor's name, she can finally speak. It's a big moment. It is and it takes them out of the anger to each other.

Nova's voice distracts the guard using his power and the two men awake from their mesmerism. Taylor attacks the guard and Brent slams him into the spikes of the door, killing him. And as he dies, he removes his mask, revealing his innermost self to his god. Oh, very nice.

Taylor helps Brent, making a bandage for his wounds from the dead man's clothes. Brent tells Taylor that people have a nuclear bomb. Taylor asks Brent what type of bomb it is. And if he saw any serial number on it, Brent tells him that all he saw was two Greek letters, the Alpha and the Omega.

Yeah. Taylor recognises this. Christian, let me just explain what it's about. Oh, I thought you were going to explain it.

Come on. All right, in Christianity, the first and last letters are the Greek alphabet used to... I am the first and the last. Well, welcome to Bible Studies with Colin and Paul.

Taylor helps Brent making a bandage for his wounds from the dead man's clothes. I've done that already. I've done all that. Yeah, you're way behind.

You've gone back in time. Who do you know about the spaceships? The Brent and the Sip. Hello, welcome to the technology of what they got.

They've got, I mean, they've got cryogenic chambers in the spaceship. I always assumed that it was probably later, like 21st century, but no, it's the 20th century, apparently. Yeah, but I guess that's because we're viewing it from now as our age and stuff. If you're in the 60s...

Well, I think the UFO, that was set in 1980, wasn't it? Yeah, pretty much everything we do that's vutivistically set a time before. We're actually doing it. It's a shame we never got what we all promised, isn't it?

Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, apart from pandemic, that's come true. Yeah, that's all lost.

No, no, no. Forget the jet boots pandemic. We got any flying cars, anyway. We got massive death on a global scale.

So, you know, Brent tells Taylor that people have no idea what they have, and that they shoot it off against the apes. It could set off a chain reaction in the atmosphere, destroying the world. Now, Taylor's a very cynical character, isn't he, compared to Brent? He's kind of like, well, just let him use it.

They all deserve it anyway. Yeah. We cut outside and the apes discover the passage leading down to the subterranean world. They dismount and begin to descend, watched inside by the mutants.

What will you do? Asks one of the mutants to the leader, whatever is necessary, he replies. They don't do a lot, though, really. No, not really.

They've got one move. Yeah, and it's surprising they haven't been conquered already. Yeah, but I suppose if it was always the Forbidden Zone, and they've only just, you know, gathered up the Hoots bar to go into the Forbidden Zone, the apes, then that's what they've been, these mutants have been living off for God knows how long, isn't it? Really?

That's right. And gathering up Hoots bar kind of dribbles between your fingers. It's really hard to do. You're right.

I knew it said it, I shouldn't have said it. Um, the Forbidden Zone has been their only defence. Yeah. You think they would have had time to think of something else at this point, like putting a door on that.

Yeah, a real door, not a fake door. Entrance. Yeah, yeah, no, an actual door. That would have helped.

Not just a humming pearl ladders. Yeah, yeah. The apes move through the tunnels, working their way down past all the excellent map paintings that we see again. Yes.

Back in the cell, Taylor and Brent are trying to get the doors open when they hear gunshots. The apes have begun to mow down the mutants, killing them all indiscriminately. This is really brutal. They're just running up to me when just shooting them out.

Yes, yeah. Yes, squad. Yep, wiping them out. Brent and Taylor hide in the corner of the cell as a gorilla looks in.

When he's gone, they get back to open the doors and they escape. Taylor hands Brent another mace and says to him, when I'm thinking, I think I am, replies Brent. Sorry, it's just that picking the brain thing. You think what I'm thinking?