86. The imperfect path to better boards with Jim Brown

In this episode of On Boards, hosts Joe Ayoub and Raza Shaikh welcome Jim Brown, co-founder of OrgHealth and author of the global bestseller "The Imperfect Board Member."   With 30 years of experience advising boards and CEOs, Jim shares how embracing imperfection leads to stronger leadership, healthier organizations, and better board performance. He dives into the evolution of governance over the last two decades and the cultural challenges boards face today.  Jim also previews his forthcoming book arriving in 2026, "The Imperfect CEO," set 20 years after his first book. The sequel explores the current reality that company leaders face through changes in leadership expectations and workplace culture.    Key takeaways 1.OrgHealth's mission Jim explains that organization health is a focus on culture, the relationship between board members, how they communicate with each other and how they talk about their CEO and management team Companies that seek OrgHealth's consultations need to have a leader who recognizes that they will be making most of the changes and acknowledges that improvements need to be made.    2. "The Imperfect Board Member" philosophy The book tells a fictional story of a frustrated CEO who discovers that in order to make effective change on his board, it begins with self-awareness. Along his journey he discovers  "The Seven Disciplines of Governance Excellence: direct, protect, connect, expect, respect, reflect, and select.  The key insight from the story is that lasting board transformation requires both individual and collective growth. 3. Challenges adjusting to changes in culture Jim's upcoming book, "The Imperfect CEO," revisits the same protagonist 20 years later as he confronts a new reality of generational and cultural shifts within companies. The issue that company leaders face is being stuck in the mindset that because something worked before, it should still work. But with younger generations entering the company, outdated expectations receive pushback.  4. The ideal board chair A great board chair leads with an attitude toward service, not authority. Their role is to draw out the best from every member, ensure effective discussion, and maintain focus without dominating the conversation. 5. Term limits, a solution to offboarding challenges Jim suggests that rather than making offboarding personal through performance feedback, make it a mechanical process. Term limits also encourage boards to develop the skill and culture to bring in new members and help them learn about the company.  Quotes " Culture has become the undercurrent of every organization's reality. And if you don't recognize it, you're going to be blindsided by it." " My observation and my personal experience that the way we led as leaders 20 years ago that worked for us, doesn't work today." " I think it would just be much more healthy if we let boards be boards of directors where more of their energy is on the direction piece rather than the protection piece." " Have enough time for people to learn the job, the organization, and really add value, but not so much time that they become stale."   Links OrgHealth The Imperfect Board Member Guest Bio Jim Brown is an author, speaker, and board governance advisor with over 30 years of experience helping boards and CEOs build healthier organizations. He co-founded OrgHealth in 1995, a consulting firm dedicated to improving board and leadership performance through culture, clarity, and accountability. His book, "The Imperfect Board Member" (2006), became an international bestseller. He currently serves on several boards, including Vanquish Hockey, Amgine Technologies, and previously served on boards for The Global Leadership Network and SigmaDek. His upcoming book, "The Imperfect CEO" (2026), explores how leadership and workplace culture continue to evolve in today's rapidly changing environment.