Here's the daily talk show episode 881 and today we've got a special guest the co-founder of thank you Daniel Flynn Welcome to the show, mate. Hey, thank you so much. I feel to be number 881. That's incredible I mean we've been following everything that you've been doing for ages you came back from New Zealand How long did you spend in New Zealand?
They're for better year and a half. So it's really yeah It was a well-needed break slash launch and rethink of the whole thank you model Yeah, Tommy and I always talk about living abroad what it's going to do for us You know if we were to live somewhere else would change our life and you know be better humans What's the reality of actually moving what sort of perspective did you gain? Well, I think hypothesis is it's real like we did do we become better humans? Maybe we definitely rethink things.
I think there's something about when you physically I don't know about you guys like when I fly if I get in a plane which is a distant memory now But you just have a different perspective moving country or city You just you get out of what was comfortable and then you start to reanalyze You know and I think for myself and co-founder just saying is my wife Like we had a real rethink of us as individuals as leaders as a family the whole company and yeah You know what the fruit was really good And it was good to it's good to enjoy some time over in New Zealand Well as much as I mean their ideas that you're having a friend of mine is a motivational guy any motivational speaker any he says it's not a geographical problem It's a you problem and so I don't listen to that I like to think that traveling does bring something out of me But just on the idea thing that is a concept I move overseas and things will be different You guys have had a pretty large-scale idea of late that you're currently in the middle of Run us through what what idea you've had and where you're up to to date Yeah, cool. Well look and a lot of this came from New Zealand We looked at what are we good at what are we not good at and we're really fine? I don't know anything So look we've watched a bold idea It's called no small plan and essentially it's a call out to the world to say hey could you help get thank you this social enterprise model To the world we've invited two groups of people one of those groups just happens to be the biggest product companies on the planet So png Unilever we sent them literally a two by one meter Invitation it's a giant crate by a 24-foot truck at their head offices say hey This is an invitation to change the world and we're inviting them to help make and distribute. Thank you products globally We've also invited nine of their nearest competitors Uh, we just need one one partner to help and then we've called out to consumers to say hey would you use your voice in this moment?
Post forwards. I mean are you tag png tag Unilever the hashtag is thank you to the world And it's this whole idea of us as consumers using our voice big business using what they have Global manufacturing capabilities and together taking a social idea to global scale and we hope Taking us humanity one giant step closer to the end of extreme poverty You guys are a leader in social enterprises. What have you learned about the social enterprise models since you began the journey? Yeah, look, I think it's we've learned that it's important Uh, you know the world needs it covid has shown us even more so that fact, you know right now charity donations are down So, you know, honestly charities are a tailspin people aren't giving uh and in the sector wearing focus on extreme poverty It's gone from bad to worse.
So there are 250 million people in the brink of famine And if you think about that reality plus charities who they're there to kind of help solve that they're down on donations Um at the same time. Thank you. It's up I mean we're up we're at all time high in sales because we saw hand sanitizer and hamwash and consumers are still consuming Um, we just released some numbers on that that we're just giving a further 10 million dollars To our impact partners from a few months sales literally during the pandemic And that that to us is like hey at a time in the world in a tough spot. Here's a model that works Um, and it's not easy.
I'll be honest. I mean going to New Zealand we sat back and we went flip we're gone for over a decade now And we're at nearly a burnout just in um, she ended up having three months off doctors said to her Yeah, your health is not a good spot You need to have a break or your body will stop and she had a break and her body stops So she had three months in bed and then like a nine month recovery journey. I was pretty close You know, I end up having a few months off and we just went man What's what's going on? And we realized that Such enterprise is a cool concept But in our case we had to have the biggest companies on the planet and it is tough and and so whilst the model's important and needed You know, it is a really tough battle out there Again, some pretty big machines and so we we got to work rethinking how we'll get to market not changing the mission But kind of slipping the game on its head and their enters no small plan You know don't get into a flat spot Especially when it translates in your body's health.
How do you how did you guys pick yourselves back up and actually say this is worth continuing doing what we're doing? Yeah, I mean, I think it was some pretty deep soul searching, you know, I think there was You know, anyone who started anything or worked to make an idea a reality knows it is not easy I mean, it just you know, you think how it could be and then you basically live out how it could be and we did And we got smashed like we're pretty open about it. We the bigger we got it's like the harder we got hit Um, which in part is almost flattery, you know, I bumped into a kind of a CEO of a very big competitor And I made kind of a joke. I was like, so it's getting a bit harder to launch these days And he's like, yeah, well, you know, when thank you first started no one probably took it too seriously But now, you know, it works and people back it and the industry probably handles it different And in one sense, it was a compliment in other sense.
It's hard. It's hard to live through that You know, we launched into the baby category a couple of years ago in Australia You think nappies or diapers depending on what part of the world you're listening from you think that's a fun category I mean, it is it's all out war and it really was and we went up against a pretty big business And how do you rethink? Well, we saw the results what worked We saw what didn't and then we analyze what didn't work And we asked the question is there another way and yeah, there are other ways and so I think I mean for just saying why we are moved by two things one is the mission the purpose and that's deep and it drives us So that helps and then also vision like we had a see a future that's that could work And I think once we had a bit of rest We really went back to why did we start this and then we had this vision of there is a way we could pull it off And we met industry experts. We told him the plan He's what we're gonna do and they're like I'll never work like you are asking the biggest companies on the planet To basically make a new box a new box of partnership that they don't currently do And that was true, you know big companies that we're approaching usually acquire brands Thank you copy owned.
It would take away from the entire model We have of all for our impact But I think when you are led by a mission and purpose and you've got a vision I don't know where kind of the people that can't unsee that and so we just go we'll go all in and that's that's what we're doing currently When did you come up with the idea of no small plan and did it take much to build the confidence to have another crack? Yeah, look it did The plan has been worked and reworked for at least two and a half years You know in fact it was planned to launch next year and then covid happened and at first We thought delay the plan and then we saw extreme poverty go from bad to worse and sales go from good to great So like bring the plan forward like we just this the world needs it now But for the last two and a half years we've been looking at What wasn't working what was working? We discovered that as a brand we were able to over index and get results that literally are market leading but The easiest way I could put it is it's like we could launch ideas Get buy into those ideas like few other brands could but sustaining those ideas against some of the biggest machines out there That's where we would continue to kind of hit a ceiling And so we thought we'll imagine if we did what we're kind of best in class that and we partnered with a global manufacturer Who's really good what they do together? Actually together.
There's no model like that currently in the market and then we started to play that for one thing This this could change everything. So a couple years ago We were like we're there and then we spent time shopping it around getting advice trying to think through how do we approach is How would we do it? Privately publicly all of the things in between and then we built a plan and spent time refining it And to be honest, we would have liked another year But we you know covid changed the world in a bad way and maybe in a good way and we just decided to go all in now You've got an epic promo video describing what mission you guys are on I mean, it's quite warm in my house and I was shivering. I was fucking moved At the end you say this awesome line you say You're probably asking what if it doesn't work and then you ask the question back what if it does I just love that because it's Everything in this world has started with a concept in your mind I mean, is that a question though that you asked yourself?
What if it doesn't work at the start and how how have you translated it to get the action and moving forward that you have got at the moment? Yeah, look, it's a really it's a powerful question. What if it does work? It's also a frustrating question for some people because you know, you're the kid that's like, well, they asked a different question.
Yeah, and like I think I think we will think through an idea and play out The what if it doesn't work is in how do you remove risk and how do we think of that? So so you can't like neither team beginners mindset is part of the secret and the other part is learning and just being like relentless And by learning, I mean like we've entered a new type of business partnership model and this is what we're proposing It's licensing. It's brand licensing for those who are familiar with brand licensing We've discovered that we've basically we're creating a new category. We're just going to call it the thank you license Which is like brand licensing but a little outside of that box But the only reason we can even create that what we would propose is a bit of a new box is because we learned about the other one We learned how it would work for us and how it wouldn't we thought through is this possible?
How do we remove risk for partners and then we we started to create it now? This is not a complete story. We'll find out in a few weeks if it worked or not But part of the optimism and the focus on how could this work That's the thank you approach I mean, you know, the world doesn't change until someone imagines it different and then goes all in on that And that has been what's built. Thank you so far And to be honest, it's the only way forward because we don't When people are like, oh, um, is there another thank you out there that you're just trying to replicate that there isn't and I don't mean that in a Proud way.
There just isn't so many organizations we borrow from like love how they're doing this love how they're doing that But we just don't see what we see in our mind in the market yet And so that means we think we're gonna have to take some pretty creative approaches and continue on ask that question But what if it does work and then the follow-up is like, but how could we how could we make it work and you know a good brainstorm? I think begins with infinite possibility not, you know, wow if it doesn't work risk reputation money waste of time investment like that is That leads to the most uninspiring Brainstorm session you'll have have there's um, there's a bunch of people in Melbourne were obviously in lockdown at the moment But they'll be starting hopefully soon to transition into you know a new version of normal where they're going into their office again Having being you know hermets at home I guess you've had a version of this being remote in New Zealand away from your team What was some of the coping mechanisms or tools that you use when coming back into the workplace to make sure that the team was comfortable and you were comfortable and that you were sort of optimized? Yeah, I think that um two things are really important one is space So when you get away you create space space to think space for ideas space to discover and that is so critical So I think coming back in one of the challenges with the office And the kind of this idea of the hustle and like let's go go go is you can become very much reaction based or busy based And you kind of addicted to this drug of like if I'm just always busy and I get back to every email in time Then surely this thing or like drop that's actually not the case You can answer every single email that ever comes to you turn up to every meeting and completely fail In all of your actual KPI. It's like your real success And so I think space is critical so when you come back in it's like well How do I keep the space that I got when I was away when I was working from home?
That's part one but the second part which almost contradicts it but it's again it's a balance Is like proximity so being in New Zealand was great because we got space but we also got disconnected And unity particularly as a team unity is a very very very powerful thing like disunity or like two visions Uh, a good example right now Without getting to political might be america Right two very different views on how the country should be and run and you know and that that's human nature But what we're all kind of witnessing is this sort of like so divided That you can't even have a conversation no one can move forward And it's it's kind of like a horror show that we're all watching in on and hopefully there's a good resolve soon But um, I think when that happens in a business in a startup It's death you're paralyzed. You can't move and so there's something about when you're when you're together And we've actually found this as a team. We're not in the office right now We've been remote since March, but we're meeting more regularly than ever on zoom three times a week We feel more unified more connected unity isn't like same thinking it's actually diverse thinking But you're together in that diverse thinking and so I think sometimes when you create space you can actually put at risk That incredible like feeling of unity you get as a particularly a smaller startup And so I think when people come back to the new normal if you can get the balance between space But also that feeling of hey, we're united in this vision mission That's when you have a really like a well thought through a powerful team Has your relationship been with You know, what may happen in the future and where you are now and and how do you sort of I mean covid for everybody has been that version of I was planning something, but that's out the window So yeah, how do you reconcile the sort of the future and where you want to get to? Yeah, I mean, I I think that this disruption that the world's just had and is still going through Is I mean, we're seeing a very dark side of it extreme poverty There is a dark side in mental health.
There is a dark side in the economic flow and effects and the health flow and effects from this pandemic And it is the more you look into that it is dark and it is heavy But I think there is also light and there is a hope and it's the hope that we all just discovered You can meet on zoom Small small realization, but I have never in my life If you said you'd be doing some kind of global campaign call that thing from your house in a suburb in Melbourne I would say No, you know, I I have way too much status points with too many airlines and I'll be flying around every minute And I'll be like, but no, no, the world just changed and then we discovered that you know You can do things differently and and we're all gonna have to and I think that for me is the big realization is we're gonna have to do things different Partnership, I think is a big part of the future In part because not everyone can travel this freely But then I think also does the world need heaps of replicated businesses or replicated charities or replicated ideas? No, I think the world needs every single one of us to figure out What are we uniquely good at and what have we got to bring and how do we work with others? We've got something to bring through and through partnership solve the economic crisis and the health crisis and all of the flow and effects the mental health crisis from Yeah from this this disruption. What about internal buy-in from your team when you have these big Crazy ideas.
I can imagine that there's a bit of selling in that you have to do Do you have any tips or thoughts on the best way of approaching that? Yeah, I mean I think this is where proximity is really critical You know, I've fallen apart on this before kind of flying in with a big idea and it's like And I can feel it and I'm like, oh, hang on a second I really think it's critical for any point leaders or visionaries to like yes You have to be 30,000 feet as you think through your idea But I think you've also got to be on the front line and connected to that that real finger on the pulse with where the day-to-day Is that and if you do that then I think a team member would have buying because you're not just some kind of young That's I'm a lofty future thought you found a way to connect it to today's problems And and then someone who's like more focused on today can almost join your tomorrow thinking So that's part of it I think the other part too is just don't share everything at once If you've got a big idea, you know, like bring it in bit by bit You know, I often get asked, you know, oh, have you got to what's your 10-year plan? I'm not sure if you guys plan to ask what's our next five 10 years, but my answer is like Look, we got some big dreams and hopes but really focus on today Like I've kind of got this like cut and paste answer, which is basically me not saying Yeah, we got so many ideas and I'm gonna freak you out because I'm just gonna share them all and then you're gonna be like Nah, this is nuts. Was there a time that you did that like it like I guess if you look at um, uh, you know Thank you was founded on water bottles and obviously you've had a big, you know, change in regards to approaching that How do you how do you reconcile because I even feel it's like things are constantly changing like, you know, COVID especially means that as you said, you might be saying we're doing it next year and then all of a sudden you're saying actually I think it makes sense to be moving this forward How do you reconcile and sort of communicate your change in mind?
Yeah, I mean So big visions incredibly compelling because it's big and I think people buy into like I love a big lovely dream But then I think being able to show the incremental like steps to get there is critical often I've felt far apart on that just things being better others in our team and we're got a great team now to kind of balance that But I think people need to see the incremental steps Uh, as you know what to do next be if a pivot comes and our normal is pivoting the true north doesn't change So that the big plan where we're heading why we're going there that doesn't change But how we get there in the steps we take does and I think how it's about over communication So when something comes in um, you you have to dig down to your true north And then the change you're about to make how does that better serve the true north And I think if there's a strong link between the two I think people will be like, yeah, it's kind of crazy to move our launch forward Uh at the time and the whole world is so disrupted and who knows how it's all going to work But actually I can see the logic behind it and I can see it's important and I can see it's better Therefore, I mean and I think once someone's in, you know, you know, you know, the feeling Yeah, the feelings you had when you Stand out to start. Thank you versus the feeling in this idea that you're currently in. Is there any similarities there? Uh, yeah There isn't a sense of scale, you know, I think when we first started out we were 19 years old 21 years old We had these huge global dreams from day one if you met us We're like, this is global product for global consumers going to make a global impact give us like 12 months This thing would be everywhere and then life kind of just Got us, you know, and I say life reality true reality of starting anything.
It was slower It was harder. It was I mean to be honest all important lessons that we wouldn't go back and skip They were critical that led to who we are today and how we even think and operate today But I think the similarities back to 2008 12 years ago was that kind of bright identification of Let's go. The difference now is after 12 years of learning a lot of things through failure and through pain of I think it's better positioned us So that yes, this is a call out And yes, we are asking two of the biggest companies of which we only need one of them But you might have also seen the video we said the same invitation tonight of any of us competitors because at the end of the day We're not naive to kind of hope that someone has a goodwill moment and joins the movement We hope that exists but also, you know, we've learned about competition and the power of it And we need one one of 11 Um to which has been a few weeks of very interesting zoom calls early morning late at night And it's kind of working now. We don't have a result yet But I think we've learned we've learned about big vision and ideas But then also how do you apply them in ways that will actually equal an outcome?
You know impact or dollars or growth or whatever it is aiming for so when you're going into one of these zoom meetings What's the first one? What are you expecting? What's a what's what does success look like on meeting number one? Uh, I think success is The partner that we're meeting or potential partner that we're meeting seeing what we see Um, I have no doubt at what they may be thinking Um watching the campaign go down and thinking man who are these kids and they're just trying to bully us and the public And I like I can think of all the things that they're thinking well at least a few of them But the hope is that they walk away seeing what this truly is and it's a it's a really unique moment in history And they see the logic behind why we've done it the way we've done it And I hope they can actually see it's the only way it could work at a time like this And then I hope they walk away Genuinely, you know considering what this partnership could be and not not too caught up on maybe the campaign that has been You mentioned charitable donations and down of current times I feel like it seems that seems bizarre I mean, I'm not in the world in that space like you are really consuming all those numbers I think about the empathetic and sort of, um, you know, the causes people are getting behind and visually you're seeing through social media In my mind, it would seem to go the other way.
What is do you know the reasons as to why people aren't getting behind these charities like they may have used to I mean, I think anytime uncertainty is introduced to humans. We all freeze up Um, and and some for longer than others. So I think the economic kind of flowing effect from the pandemic To Australia to the US, UK, everywhere I think that is people starting to wonder what does the future look like when this all gonna go back to normal I think a younger generation just woke up to the fact that you should probably have six months to a year's money in the bank You know, not that's something that our parents generation are like, it's a non-negotiable Whereas the younger generation is like, but credit cards, you know, and now and now people are gonna wake up to The world can stop without any notice for for quite a long time And I think so that we're gonna see a change in consumer behavior certainly in giving and giving is often the first thing to stop when economic uncertainty kicks in And obviously our lens is through extreme poverty, but you know, there are charities like, you know, oxfams very well No one globally they've pulled out of 18 countries dropped. I think 1400 staff charities are pulling out of countries They can't fund them where the data is basically saying that upwards of a hundred million people will go back into extreme poverty Off the back of the economic crisis building on the gates just released this study that's real, so it's not a prediction But to date 37 million people have gone back in To what's no one is less than a dollar 90 a day.
So It's like and governments are pulling out funding from aid and development and putting into like a pandemic or COVID response Which it's short-term responsible, but it's leaving the world's poor Some are saying one others are saying two decades. We're gonna we're about to go back two decades in all of the work We collectively did so like in a thank you context. We sit here going there the world is not in a great spot Everyone knows that but I'll be honest. It's plugging my power in because my computer is not a great spot but like This is not in our newsfeed, you know, I'm not turning on the news.
I'm not getting a lot about what's happening in developing nations I'm getting a lot about what's happening here in Melbourne. Did Andrew's actually botched the the whole quarantine. That's what totally it's all the news That and it trumps weight, you know, I guess that's everything How have you changed as a person due to the pandemic? I feel like the change started, you know, if we go back to New Zealand and then even before just before the pandemic I think you went through our own little crisis We had a whole bunch of supply chain issues and you know a customer put in a A claim for a huge amount of money that they said we owed them and we're like we don't know them that and then we checked We did with an accounting error wasn't huge, but we missed it and added up over time And so in in February, we were in our own mini crisis And I think straight away for Justin and I we went straight down to values, right straight back to like why we hear why we're doing this And we were looking down the barrel of thank you by far worst financial year ever We were looking off the edge of a cliff that was scary But what I love about vision a mission and a united team is you'll do whatever it takes to get it done And so and job keep it helps now I thought, you know, and job keeper first was an answer like we're gonna need that to even stay afloat But then our team worked with suppliers and customers We ended up literally making what 12 years profit in a few months and we didn't we didn't register for How does the supply work for that because I was thinking about that like the huge increase Do you just turn on a tap like because you've got the supply chain around hand sanitiser and all that sort of thing Do you get first dibs from a factory perspective?
We like okay guys. Yeah, just triple our water. How does that work? Um We would love to have thought it would work like that and so when sales went up We we said to our suppliers we need more product and we couldn't get it Yeah, in fact supply chain fell apart locally and globally in many parts There was a I think in March.
We were at 50% of our normal sales production So we were in dire straits and obviously everyone's needing sanitiser. We couldn't make it But I would put credit down to a team that One of our values we talked about is solutions focused and we found new suppliers in new countries and new supplier channels And we moved mountains and processes that would be six months We pushed them out in a couple of days We found ways and if It honestly could have been a movie over that month like I stuff that happened and It was nuts, but we got through it and It's in a good way like this Sorry, it's good. It's good. It's good.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like a bit macadamia But I think so what I mean by nuts is like we sold more product and made it and distributed it At a time when local and global supply chains were falling apart But through finding good partners through very unconventional ways through taking some risk We took risks. We took some pretty significant risks We felt they were measured some people would be like that's big risk But it was but then also the biggest profit impact we've ever made and yeah I mean there they're probably the people that are asking what if it doesn't work In terms of that you living and breathing and experience you're in the trenches of seeing your profits, you know grows so rapidly What's what are the learnings from that because from the ads?
I don't think I even can fathom that as a business and as a person to what unique perspective on the situation has that given you Yeah, I think with great With great upside there comes an even greater responsibility I think that we set that going this is incredible at the same time I watch friends businesses falling off cliffs and other great organizations that we're like man That's what do you mean virgin Australia's going into like what like like we saw these establishments just collapsing and changing Meanwhile we are going through The best growth ever And I mean it's not just us the sanitizer thing was like a gold rush I think we said in the video it was like and we saw the best and worst of humanity in that gold rush You know special mentioned this and people we won't mention but like it's just like people when money is on the table People go all in but then there's some good too and we saw a lot of that I think the thank you context is we sat back going this is incredible and look we could have gone Let's just keep the balance sheet strong. We'll give a bit. Let's write out this pandemic on the other side of it You know, we'll get bold then but I think for us every single day is the dollars went up And the world's falling apart. We felt this sense of responsibility that we need to go all in And that's what no small plane is so My perspective and I think just means we just felt a sense of responsibility that when you have something that works at the time the world needs it You know, we let's not block it.
Let's not block it going further I remember you talking about some of the challenges of social enterprises around Thank you having to create a phenomenal product to stand out because of sort of the the brand perception of something that's you know social enterprise How do you create a social enterprise that retains really amazing people? Obviously there's the the side of it Which is you're doing good But what's your perspective on things like salaries within the social enterprise sector? And how can we encourage the best people to come and work at companies like thank you Mmm big topic important one because I think that to make to make social enterprise work I genuinely think we almost have to remove social for a moment think enterprise and just go right So thank you, you know It's two rules on our website rule one make great product rule two never break rule one And we have an asterisk on rule two that says never use a good cause to sell an average product Now we got these rules from a great book or do purpose why brands with purpose matter I think anyway do purposes the title But these rules like to make good product unique people And you need good retention and any good culture and all of the things and I think one of the great challenges with social Charity in particular, but then anything social is we think well because of the cause You know people should do it for less money In fact if they need to get paid well, they're in it for the wrong reasons And some of this stuff sort of when you filter it through some people have really screwed it up for everyone By stealing money by absolute charity rots and that sucks So when you filter it through that the logics there But when you filter it through how do we live in a world in 2020 where we're all happy to pay someone at instagram or facebook A developer, you know, a very very very handsome salary to make the app more addictive So that when we're addicted how are we comfortable with that? And then we're not comfortable to pay that same amount to someone who might be trying to solve the complexities of extreme poverty or a social issue So as a society we're like we're okay with that.
We're not okay with this and like we face this every day I don't I had an interesting exchange with a Netherlands journalist Who was having a good rip into us and I thought this is so ironic because he's from A publication that publishes the top hundred rich list and the cars the boats the houses and they are front page We get sort of the back page these are they really not for the right reasons blah blah blah and I'm like classic But this is how we are as a society and it has to change How does it change do you think is there their ways and where does Australia fit do you think in regards to dealing with this? Look, I think that Australia is doing well in social enterprise. We have some really strong examples here I used to think we're 10 years behind the UK head of social enterprise in the UK is like you guys are not 10 years behind It's amazing. So I think we're doing well I think that we just need to keep pushing the boundaries and pushing the boundaries of social enterprise And I think we'll continue to do that at thank you because we are really interested in really good talent Making really good products and campaigns to make a bigger social impact and yes We'll never be the highest paid at thank you compared to corporate, but we don't want to be too far off it You know, there are some measures in that we based off the kind of the 25th percentile Which is the lowest but yeah, I don't know how I feel about that long term You know, I kind of wonder is that really the model it's certainly today, but I think we should keep pushing it Because you know good people make good products and that's what we need No small planning I know the timing of all of this I mean you mentioned that it was next year that you're thinking about it and I mean, are you the type to look and go wow, this is serendipitous.
This is all meant to be I am like I am. I think you know, Justin I personally like faith is maybe part of our story And we do think that we're doing this for something bigger than us and we're important than us and the timing of this Ah, it does feel like that. It feels like maybe this is meant to be I mean there are some days we wake up and we're like was this even meant to be or even meant to be doing this? Do you wrestle when you're in New Zealand, you know suffering a bit of pain internally Do you think that too?
Are you thinking this was meant to be this is a part of the journey that we have to go through? Yeah, our reflection on it is is that you know, like this whole concept of the wilderness and kind of you look at the greatest stories ever written leaders, you know of old you think of you know, not the way of trying to compare it all, but you know Mandela is locked up in prison like you look at these sort of histories of people and You know, it's inspiring when you hear the story because you're like man, you went on a long down before that up Do you mean like it was on other trees? Yeah? Yeah, but cool look at my other trees is like whole life story It's like pretty epic, but it's there's a lot of that before there's that and I think the valley is not often talked about It's not he wrote enough We all talk about the mountains and top moments and look at them They did this or one that or achieve that but most great stories are here And so I think for Justin, you know, we ended up going oh, we're here and that helped us because we're like we're definitely not there But we're here.
Let's just let's go on that journey and be okay with that You hear about founders or CEOs and how it can be lonely in those roles. Have you felt lonely through the process? Ah, yeah, like yes, I definitely am grateful for co-founder and not just founder I think of founders and you know credit to them It's that maybe and even lonely journey when I walked having co-founders Justin and Jared Jared finished up about two years ago And it walked within 10 years in this that wasn't really helpful because you're encouraging each other the amount of times I've quit Or or just things quit, but then we it wasn't on the same day. So we kind of go each other back It's like it's it wasn't on paper Does he know But you know nobody said about that, but I think we emailing your wife that you Well For the lawyers So I think we we yeah, I'll just say we don't do it alone That would be my message to everyone because I think it is lonely But we have to reach out and you have to get help and get support because point leading anything it is it is the loneliest job in the world Yeah, it's it's so exciting what you're doing and can I also say you've got some of the best hair in the business as well I think following your hair journey and I think the curls are great Yeah, I think that you're really wrapping it I can't get away the secret But I can tell you one thing to any kid out there who thinks at the age of 17 or 16 I'll start straightening my hair and no one needs to know about my curls like if that's you stop Don't try and hide it because it's 29 when it all came out.
My son had curly hair You're giving us So just be you Awesome. Well, yeah, good luck and so for the people that want to support no small plan, obviously you're in the There's sort of final stages in some regarding having the meetings, but is there other ways that people can help out Yeah, look I'd say over the next couple of weeks if people haven't seen the video watch it share it The more awareness the better because when the product has a partner, I mean we're gonna need to roll it out And so that's where you know, thank you works off people and people telling people so I'd say right now that's what we call action We are four weeks out three weeks out from an announcing who's in we have booked one of the largest digital people boards in the world It's about in time to spend New York City. It's not small. I think it's a size of an American football field And the founder loves our story and he's like, I mean, so we've got a discount rate, but we're sitting there going hope it's not empty Like that's awkward.
Um, so look follow the journey get the popcorn out And either way, it's gonna be a case study. I think the good thing about thank you. Someone's like, but what if this fails? I'm like How we work it?
Thank you is it can't fail And that's as in even if everything didn't go to our plan We're gonna learn from it pivot and then it'll work and we'll find a way to make it work And so you know come on the journey with us It's a man. Congratulations. It's really awesome I'm just thank you for the interview. I'm just got black shirt It's a good call.
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