I've learned that difficult emotions are not that enemy is our reactivity towards them. So if we're denying them or suppressing them, that's when it starts to get complicated. That was Paige Davis. Today's guest.
And her story is so interesting. She's the woman that was doing all of the right wellness things yet of her own admission. She was still feeling spiritually starved and looking for something. Then she was head with a seriously heavy cancer diagnosis.
Today, we're talking more about her journey through that and some of the lessons she learned. She also talks about the spiritual and life lessons she learned through that journey and her new book, which is about to be released this very month called Here We Grow. Go get a copy. A bit more about Paige.
She's an entrepreneur, a cancer survivor, a mindfulness facilitator and a meditation teacher. Yep. She's all around fascinating. She now teaches meditation and mindfulness to companies, teams and individuals.
But she's also the co-founder of the social impact brand Blue Avocado. Look them up too. I bought myself a set of rezips after listening to her. So excited to get them in the mail.
As a sneak peek of some of the awesomeness that's about to come in this conversation, we talk through how we don't meditate to get good at meditation, but to get good at life and how that really hit home for her during her healing journey, how she had been approaching wellness from a place of should and what changed for her around that, how peace is her new bottom line. I love that. How our emotions are literally energy and emotion and they need to be expressed. How she applied visualization as a tool in her personal healing journey and so much more.
Stay tuned for the goodness that is Paige Davis. Welcome to Head of Thrive. I'm your host Kate Snowwise. This is a podcast with people who are ready to step up and live a happier life.
It's for those of us who are dedicated to understanding ourselves and getting the best that we can out of this thing called life. It's a mix of psychology and modern spiritual thought, always with a focus on practical advice so that you can take it back and apply it to your own life. I don't believe we're here to merely survive. I truly believe we're here to thrive.
So let's get going. Paige, thank you so much for joining me on here to thrive. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here with you and to share my story.
I found your story incredibly inspirational and I'm super lucky people. I got to read a pre-copy, but it was because you looked at your experience in such a different light and I think a lot of people do. I want to go back to before you had cancer and before that day where your life changed. What were you like as a person?
What was your life like? What was your day to day like? Yeah, so you know what's interesting is I've always really been interested in wellness and meditation and mindfulness and mind-body practices. I mean, you name it.
I've done it from mainstream to some things that some people would consider to be more woo-woo. So I have always been exploring these types of things and topics and in my past, even as a child, I was a pretty curious soul-seeking kid searching for the meaning of life. But I've been an entrepreneur throughout my life. I started at the dot com in San Francisco in the 90s and then moved made a logical step to move to Texas and open up a lot of studios.
Super logical. Yeah. And that's where I really started to explore kind of the mind-body connection from a physiological perspective. And then about five years into that, I realized I was more of an entrepreneur than I was a teacher, even though I love the teaching.
And that's when I started my latest company, Blue Avocado, with my sister and a good friend. And we started the company really as a way to help people live a more reusable life. So products like reusable shopping bags and our ReZips, which are designed to replace disposable plastic baggies. And it was just, it's the fast-paced entrepreneurial environment as we gain national distribution in a container store and target and office max and office depot.
So I was just a pretty busy entrepreneur, but you know, had all the making of a happy and fulfilled life, but it's like kind of reflect back. I think I was just, I think I was just feeling a little bit spiritually starved. I was doing all the right things, but I think I was just kind of feeling a little disconnected from myself, really. I think this part of your story is really fascinating.
I was reading the book and I'm like, I can resonate with so much of your story. I was the one that was getting my mom to take me to the bookstore and I'm a couple of years younger than you're not much, but taking mom to the bookstore to buy me self-help books, because we didn't have the internet back in the day. I was loving that part of your story where you were truly a spiritual seeker from such a young age. But then what I really appreciate as well is you say, and it's not like I was then living on the mountaintop and had found enlightenment and everything was perfect and easy, that there was still this part of you that even though you were doing all the right things spiritually, ticking all the right boxes, you had all the makings of fulfillment, but it wasn't completely there, was it?
No, and I think the real kind of like early wake-up call, kind of foreshadowing it all is about nine months before my diagnosis. I was just on the verge of burnout, I was desperate for some peace, and I just knew something had to change. So I did what many of us do in those moments. I started Googling, and I landed on a meditation training with Deepak Chopra in the Chopra Center, and that was a game changer.
It really helped me to just address some of the misconceptions I had around meditation, just simple things like it's okay to have thoughts. It's the nature of the brain to have thoughts. So that retreat was just, I mean, I think that's really what saved my life, and I was able to cultivate a practice that fit my daily lifestyle and came back and was experiencing some really tangible benefits, sleeping better, and just feeling more connected in my life. And then it was nine months later on Valentine's Day when I received my cancer diagnosis.
And yeah, I was like sitting on the table after the initial breakdown, after I heard the words, and just doing the only thing I need to do in that moment. And it was just focusing on my breath, and I was overwhelmed by the sense of peacefulness, and kind of recalled the teacher at the Chopra Center saying, we don't meditate to get good at meditation, we meditate to get good at life, so we can better cope in stressful situations. And as I felt this peacefulness throughout my body, I was like, oh, this is why people meditate. And the life we meditating for, the real stuff, right?
So do you still, are you still in Bloevicato with your sister and friend? We're out of the day to day, but yeah, it's still around. Our ReZIP products are kind of the hero product right now, but yeah, still in the container store and Target, you can find us online at ReZIP.com or BlueAvicato.com. But yeah, I mean, that was kind of one of the big changes.
I knew, you know, I needed to create a lifestyle that wasn't as stressful, especially after my diagnosis. I was fortunate that I was still working part time throughout, but that's really where I discovered my love of meditation and mindfulness throughout my journey. And that's when I just felt this calling that I needed to explore that. So basically got my training for that.
And now I'm teaching meditation mindfulness in a corporate setting primarily with entrepreneurs and startups. So kind of, it's become a full circle experience for sure. So as you're sitting there with the doctor, because you found out that you had breast cancer simply through your yearly checkup, right? It wasn't like you went specifically into the doctor saying I have concerns.
Correct. And then from my annual checkup, and she noticed the lump and, you know, kind of highlighted it. And so that's when I started to get concerned. But the official diagnosis didn't happen until a week later at the mammogram.
I, you know, I knew it wasn't good after I walked out of that, my annual exam. Because reading the book, you sort of said, actually, when I thought back, I had noticed pain there for quite some time, but I had potentially been burying my head in the sand a little bit. Is that fair to say that you hadn't been acknowledging the physical symptoms that you'd had? Yeah.
You know, I had been losing weight. I had been, had several sinus infections. I had like multiple cases of pink eyes. And my body was definitely talking to me.
The other thing that I think I just got this thing in my head that one of my best friends was diagnosed about two years before I was. And I know this sounds so crazy to people, but I can recall feeling the lump like when I was doing an exam in the shower and thinking to myself, well, it can't be because she's had it. And like, I kept hearing that statistic of one in eight. And I mean, I just think when we're, it's amazing what our minds will do when we don't want to face something.
I was ignoring every possible sign that my body was giving me. I'm going back now and I'm fascinated for people more generally as well because I know I can be prone to doing this. Why do we ignore stuff? Was it because you were just in the motions of life?
Was it because it would have been inconvenient? Or did you think possibly that you were being too dramatic? What do you think when you look back now was going on for you at that point? For me, I really think it was obviously fear because you just go to that place of cancer.
And when you think of cancer, you just think of the worst possible scenario. And I've had several family members, someone actually very close to me who had actually died six weeks prior to my own diagnosis. So I just, I think it was just the fear, like this of the impossibility. And really, I think I can now see in hindsight, like that's what this journey has taught me.
It's like, cancer is the hardest thing I've been through and I don't wish it on anyone. But there are ways to manage and cope with certain types. I mean, others are, you know, everyone's got their own journey. But I think just while it was the hardest thing I've been through, it was also a really meaningful and transformational time in my life.
And it was an awakening in every sense of the word. I'd love to just share a little bit more about your cancer journey so that people can kind of get some context of what we're talking about that you had to face. So you ended up with this breast cancer diagnosis and then you go on and you have to have what for treatment. Yeah.
So I had a bilateral mastectomy. So both breaths removed and my cancer had actually spread to my lymph nodes. So they had to take out, I think it was 29 lymph nodes. And at the time, they weren't sure if I would need treatment.
So the way it works is you have the mastectomy and they put in, they're called expanders, which are kind of interim implants. And then because the cancer had spread, I had six months of chemotherapy, which really was my biggest fear. So there was a lot of teaching in that. And then ultimate reconstruction, which, you know, was really an additional 12 to 18 months and just a part of the journey I just didn't expect.
I think in my head, I thought after treatment, like, you're done. It's time to move on. But it's that survivorship period following it that in many ways was kind of the most difficult. And then after reconstruction, and then now I'm on a medicine I should take for a total of 10 years.
So I'm about halfway through that. So you're about five years post-atmystectomy? Correct. Yes.
How old were you when you got your cancer diagnosis? So I was 38. I feel like that's another reason why, right? That you're like, well, I can't be cancer if my days for implants cancer.
And we are only in our 30s. Yeah. And I tell people, like, I literally was the healthiest person I knew until I got cancer. Yeah.
It was, you know, and I've gotten tested for the genetic testing. And even though I think I mentioned both of my aunts had passed away from different forms of cancer, they weren't blood related ants. So yeah, there was just no family history. So it was just a complete shock.
Yeah. I want to talk about you being the healthiest person you know, because obviously your back in Texas doing a Pilates studio, you talk about like, I did my yoga, I was meditating. I loved my green juice. You were certainly part of the wellness.
I guess you could say fed or trend, but you said in the book that when you look back so much of what you were doing was motivated from fear. Can we talk about that and how you were approaching wellness and all of these healthy things, being the healthiest person you knew before your cancer experience? Thank you for asking that. Because I think that's one of the biggest things we're all facing, right?
So I was coming from this. There was definitely an interest in all these things, but I think I was doing it from that place of should, either because other people were doing it or it was a fad and I always like to consider myself as a forefront friend. You have to date. Yes, exactly.
And I think I was just kind of doing it in a manic way, just like searching, searching, searching and not knowing what I was searching for. What the cancer did is it literally turned me inside out. So I shifted from a place of doing it because I should be to a place of realizing how important it was for my body, for my mind, for my soul and for the connection. Because there's just no denying the body is calling the shots when you're going through something like that.
So you're forced to really pay attention and listen. And I mean, it changed everything. And even though technically I'm probably doing everything I did before I'm still doing, it's from a such a more connected and wholesome and holistic and nourishing space. I'm not doing pilates because I want to look lean and toned, although it's awesome that it does that, but I'm doing it because I'm accessing those muscles that just don't get a chance to be expressed and I'm feeling more balanced in my whole body when I'm doing that.
So it's just, it's like a shift in perspective, I guess. For sure. When you tuned into your inner knowing where there's certain things that didn't feel so good anymore that some would perceive as wellness for your particular body, because I know when I think of my own experience and my spiritual reconnection, I would put it when I was first trying to reconnect with my spirit. There were a lot of things I was doing because I looked around and I was like, Oh, look, like this is what spirituality looks like.
And then the more I got back in touch with myself, the more I realized that my spirituality doesn't have to look like the person next to me. And that I don't have to dress in boho type clothing to be considered a spiritual person. And I love the way you mentioned in the book that at one point you would dress like a J crew model because that's way more my style. But when I had a picture of say like a spiritual person, I was thinking like a boho goddess out in the bushes.
Do you feel like there's parts of you that when you got more in tune that you were like, my body doesn't need that. Or I don't need to show up like that. Or that isn't authentic for me. The most obvious it showed up is more and kind of my mental and emotional capacity.
Like my whole concept of like powering through and just push through and put on a happy face. Like there was no any of that. There's no any capacity I had to kind of fake it to make it just literally in my body. I couldn't force myself to do that.
So I like to tell people that peace is my new bottom line. So that's just the cue from my body. If it's not feeling peaceful, I have to take a pause and just listen and blow down, which isn't something I was accustomed to. But from a physical perspective, I really started to notice it through kind of nutrition.
So one of the hardest things going through chemo for me is sounds strange, but it was drinking water. It had a weird taste. So I explored every facet of water, sparkling water, sparkling water with ice, tap water, tap water at room temperature, like you name it, drinking through a straw, not drinking through a straw. But ultimately it came down to I knew my body needed that nourishment.
It needed the water. And that ultimately is what was the cue for my mental to kind of get out of the way. The other thing is, I love the green juices and all that, but there is a cadence with chemo, but the hardest days for me, which are usually the third day following treatment, there was no eating healthy or green juice for me. But as I started to feel better and getting a little bit more strength, then I would incorporate kind of the salads and more greens.
But on those days that it was really hard, I would just kind of succumb and have my mom's vegan mashed potatoes because I don't do dairy or pasta. And it was really an amazing opportunity to just connect with my body and just listen to what it needed. So peace is your new bottom line. That's going to resonate with me.
When you think about what your bottom line was beforehand, what was it? Was it success? Was it achievement? Do you even know?
I think it was just all externally focused. Like I was doing all these things because I thought that's what you should be doing. And yeah, I do think it was success. I think it was financial.
It was kind of trying to fit the mold of what I thought I should be doing. And so I just kind of had to let all that go and answer kind of was the ultimate breakthrough to really, I mean, it sounds like such a cliche, like I hear myself say it, but really to build an authentic life that my soul wanted to come here to do. And there's not as much stability with that. And it requires a lot more patience and just listening and really trusting.
So it is absolutely a different way of being in the world, but I wouldn't trade up or anything. What I loved about your book is you talk in a really positive light. Like you really do have this positive glow of around how you've written everything. But at the same time, then you don't sugarcoat it.
I can maybe be talking about how you cried every single day in those first few weeks. And it was right after you talking about how you put together this powerful plan and how you felt supported by the universe. But that didn't mean that there wasn't fear and tears and grief. Can we talk through how those two things can kind of simultaneously live together in one person?
Absolutely. And I'm so glad you brought that up because that is kind of the one thing I'm a little nervous about. Like it's the book comes out like, Oh, people are going to think I'm just this Pollyanna. And I because I heard that a lot going through my journey, like you're being so positive.
How are you being so positive? And I'm still confused when people say that because I was very aware of the hardship of what was going on. And again, this was the most difficult thing that I've ever experienced. But I'm realizing I think what people are witnessing, which is really just reflection in themselves is it's not about being positive.
It's about being present. And it's this present moment awareness that really lies at the core of any meditation or mindfulness practice. And when we're practicing present moment awareness, we meet whatever is there. And it comes to difficult emotions, like emotions are literally energy and motion and they're designed to be expressed.
And the more comfortable we can get at expressing those difficult emotions, the more they're going to transmute into something else and ultimately our breakdowns become breakthroughs. But I've learned that difficult emotions are not that enemy is our reactivity towards them. So if we're denying them or suppressing them, that's when it starts to get complicated. But to your point, like I am a crier and I love it and I'm proud and I will cry anywhere if that's what my body needs in the moment.
So it's not easy and it's uncomfortable. And I think this is really where it's important to seek support. And if we're having difficult emotions that we don't know how to express, I think, seeking support from professionals or really adopting practices that can help us get in touch with that is really important. And that's what I loved about your Wu Wu plan is that was part of it, right?
You said to your family, I will be seeking support. And if you need it to please seek support outside of yourself. Yeah, so that's a great example. In hindsight, when I read that email that I sent to my family, I think it may have come off as a little controlling, perhaps a little bossy.
But I realized I was just trying to control for my family what I couldn't even control for myself. And it was just that overwhelming uncertainty. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't change that email because at the end of the day, it was a way to share and connect and express. And most importantly, to tap into my writing, which was one of the most important tools throughout my journey.
By the way, that email that she drafted to her closest friends and family is in the book, Here We Grow, Word for Word. And it is, it's just really interesting to go back and I'm sure with all the development you've done through this process to look at that and go, that's where this started. Yeah, it's so funny. Like, because I honestly, I literally have a visceral connection to when I wrote that email.
And just as a little bit of backstory, as I mentioned, since I was a kid, like I've just always been interested in my body connection. And when I was really young, I like many people, I found my spiritual guidance through Oprah. And I remember on one of her shows, She Had A Guessing Bernie Segal, who wrote this book, Love Medicine and Miracles. And it was about meditation and visualization to help heal diseases such as heart disease and cancer.
And I was maybe 13, but it was just fascinated. And so picked up that book. So throughout my life, I referenced that book, and especially when both of my aunts were diagnosed and just kind of sharing some of the tools with them. So that email was like, everything just landed.
Like all the things that I'd learned that I didn't even know that I knew, I articulated. And really, I just was giving a heads up to my family. I didn't mean it to sound like, here's what you need to do, although that's what it sounded like. And then it literally spread like wildfire.
And I knew friends of friends were reaching out and colleagues. And yeah, I mean, unintentionally really helped to set the tone and help me navigate the uncharted waters of my journey. I want to talk more about the fact that you did bring in a support crew. And you did take a plan to your cancer treatment that was wider than just traditional treatment.
And what I also love about your story is like these soul links that you were constantly looking out for. And when you found them acknowledging them, because it was kind of a little bit freaking in your story that you'd made this appointment, right? Three weeks before your cancer diagnosis, and it came out right after you'd been diagnosed. Can we talk a little bit more about that connection?
Sure. First of all, I love your term soul links. That's the most adorable thing I've ever heard. And so true.
So yeah, so about three weeks prior to my diagnosis, it was even before that annual exam, I had reached out to he he's a psychotherapist, but also Zen Buddhist priest, his name was Flint Sparks. And I had heard him speak on a TED talk. He lived in Austin. And I literally just I knew I was at a point of transition in my life at the time.
I thought it was just with my career. And I was like, I could probably use some support around this. So I reached out to him. He was like my first appointment in three weeks.
I said, I'll take it. So sure enough, during that time, Raymond's when I was diagnosed. And in our first session together, he said, you know, what brings you here. And I said, initially, it was just kind of some life transition, but I since been diagnosed with cancer.
And I'm interested in the spiritual aspects. And I read this book called Love Medicine Miracles. And I was 13. So I was just kind of verbally vomiting to him.
And he just stopped me and said, I'm so sorry, you're having to go through this. And it was kind of the first moment of pause, like in the midst of all the appointments and everything. And he said, I work with cancer patients and their psychospiritual journey. And I was like, okay, he literally, yeah, like he literally was like an expert in it, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And the best, I mean, spoiler alert, but he had actually met Bernie Seagull. And so I was like, oh my God, I love the way you say it.
And the book, yeah, I love the way you say the book. You were practically a girl like over there. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
And he wrote the forward of your book too, which I think is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. But the reason I wanted to bring him up is visualization has been such a huge part of your healing journey.
Can we talk about how that played into your journey through cancer and also how you use visualization today? One of the guidelines I set forth in that email to my family is I wanted to look at my cancer journey as a love journey versus a battle to be fought. And perhaps it's because I was diagnosed on Valentine's Day. And it seemed an overt sign from the universe.
But I wanted to stay away from terms like fight, battle or poison. And it's not because I was naive to the hardship of cancer. I was very aware of the brutal aspects, but I think I needed to balance that reality through a more compassionate lens. And one of the ways of doing that was through chemo, the whole thing that's poison just didn't feel especially productive.
So Flint helped me to create a visualization where I saw the chemo as kind of a loving, friendly energy that was a powerful friend that was kind of coming in doing what it needed to do in my body and then leaving my system. And then visualizing myself recovering each day, getting stronger, engaging with the people in situations that meant a lot to me. So it was very profound. So I did visualizations before each surgery, visualizing the doctors in the operating room, visualizing the surgery going really smoothly, coming out, not having too many reactions.
So it was very profound. And in terms of like now, this is where I'm a big believer that there's no one side fits all when it comes to practicing meditation or mindfulness. I'm a naturally visual person. So I think visualization really is effective for me.
So I'll do things like just visualizing energy kind of coming up through my root chakra all the way up along my spine. I'll do some heart centered visualizations, but it's not necessarily for everyone. So I really encourage anyone who's starting with a meditation or mindfulness practice really explore the different tools and be honest with what resonates and what doesn't. And if it doesn't resonate, that's awesome information and you shouldn't force it to go into your toolkit.
I still believe that and that as well. You know, I don't think you should ever force anything. And like you said, that journey of really learning to listen to yourself seems to have been like a hallmark of what you've learned through the process. Yes, absolutely.
Talking about life today, there is so much more of your story in here we grow, but I don't want to go through the whole thing. I believe it. I believe some of it. But where you mentioned today that you are a mindfulness teacher and that is how you're giving back some of the skills you've learned.
Can we talk through that? Yeah, like as I mentioned, I think when I realized just the power of meditation and mindfulness on my own cancer journey, I knew when I finished treatment that I primarily wanted to deepen my own practice. So I didn't set out to be like, I'm going to teach mindfulness. But I found a program and a teacher who's amazing, her name's Sarah McLean and I went through her training program.
And I went into that thinking maybe, you know, I'll teach and I came out of it being like, oh, I have to do this. And you know, I've been really fortunate that I've just kind of landed in the area of working with companies and startups and executives, which is really kind of what brought me to meditation in the first place. So I feel really grateful to share this in the workplace and communicate it in a way that is accessible to people. Because I think when people think of corporate mindfulness, they think of holding hands and breathing with your coworkers.
And that's just weird. But it's not that it's really we talk about how to manage stress and we talk about emotional intelligence and just tangible tools that you can start incorporating, not just in your work day, but your day to day. I want to ask you the standard questions now, Paige, that I asked everyone, but I want to put a different lens on these for you because I want you to also consider if you think any of this has really changed with you. Since the page who was, I don't know, 35 and cancer was not on your horizon to the page that you had today.
So if there's been any changes here, I want to know. Are you a morning person or a night person? Definitely a morning person and have always been a morning person. What do you do in your mornings?
Meditate, first thing. And I will fix some coffee after meditation. We'll take my dog and then we'll start my work day and literally each day is different. Sometimes I'm going into a studio where I teach meditation.
Sometimes I am online coaching clients. Sometimes I'll be going into a company. So I think that's part of what I love is that every day is actually different, but that morning routine is a non-negotiable. So you would early rise there?
Like what time is your wake up? Normally around six or six thirty, if I were to let myself sleep in, it still would be like seven or seven thirty. So you are a morning person. I can get to 10 a.m.
if I'm really kidding. But I also go to bed early. So it's not, I feel like I'm getting my full sleep. Fix.
I love it. What is currently on your nightstand? Can you remember? Yes.
I'm actually reading Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ning. I think I also have, it's going to be the woo-woo part. It's Anna, grandmother of Jesus. Have you read anything about it?
All I'm fascinated. Tell us more about it. Oh my god. Well, first of all, I'm Jewish, but it talks about Anna, whose grandmother of Jesus, and but more kind of from the spiritual and mystical aspects of the Essene culture, which is really what helped Jesus to kind of prepare spiritually for his ultimate path.
So it's fascinating, but it is way woo-woo. And it's one of those books that it literally is a channeled book. So the author is kind of channeling this voice of Anna, but it's fascinating, but it's a little intense. It's not like you can read the whole thing in one night.
It takes months to get through. Yeah, I'm going to have to have a look. Do you have a favorite self-care activity page? Well, meditation is probably my most consistent to the opposite extreme.
I think retreats are really important. And that was one of the things I started to incorporate into my life after cancer, instead of waiting till I hit these moments of burnout is really just planning them, at least trying to do one a year, whether that's a weekend workshop or a longer week-long retreat. And then I guess in the middle, I still, acupuncture is really important for me. It's still one of the most tangible ways that I really feel that mind-body connection as well as Pilates.
So when you talk about the retreats, what do you feel like you get out of a yearly retreat? Is it like a soul rejuvenation? So there's so many different types, and it's really what people are interested in. I've started going, my teacher Flint, who I just mentioned, he has these week-long retreats that he does in Hawaii.
And for me, I think it's really important just to be in nature and really having just spaciousness for silence and solitude, but also connection. I mean, all those things are what are important to me, but again, you don't need to go to Hawaii to do it. There's so many amazing workshops and things that you can do probably in your local area. But I think it's really important, again, it's just about creating space.
And that spaciousness is how we get reconnected to that deepest part of our souls. So good. Favorite book? We've spoken about a few books in here, and obviously I'm immediately thinking to the book you read when you were 13.
But would you consider that a favorite book, or have there been other books along your journey that have really touched you or changed you in some way? Well, definitely that book has just been with me throughout my life. The Louise Hay, You Can Heal Your Life is another one similar to that that's always been with me. The Four Agreements is one I'm constantly going back to.
But I also really like kind of that memoir type writing. So I love, eat, pray, love, big magic, anything by Liz Gilbert, I just think she's the best. Isn't she gorgeous? And my, she's been through her own journey recently, too.
I'm interested to see if she writes about what she's been experiencing recently. Yeah, it's been a lot. And then, ooh, one of my favorite books is called Dying to Be Me by Anita Morjani. And it's another memoir that talks about her cancer journey, but she had a near-death experience.
So it's really a beautiful work. So I encourage people to check that out. Oh, I've spoken about near-death experiences on the podcast before. I'm right into that.
Speaking of that, you had it really interesting. I guess I want to use the word encounters with both of your aunts post their death, right? Yes. You got to read the book people.
It's so I was like, whoa. And you know, that's where again, it can sound really woo-woo. And but yeah, I mean, I just think that speaks to kind of our soul's connection and both of my answers, their spirits were with me so much throughout my entire journey. But it was really interesting even in the writing, when I was writing the book, it was just kind of experiencing them at such a tangible and visceral level.
And I felt really grateful for that. I mean, I miss them every day. And it's definitely an eye-opening and heart-opening experience. And your book is dedicated to them as well, which just warmed my heart when I saw that.
Okay, is there a favorite long road you've taken in life? And when I say favorite, I mean, is there a life lesson that perhaps took you a while to learn, but looking back, you wouldn't learn it any other way now? You know, I think it's a great question. I really think it's about living life from the inside out.
And when I say that, it's just really listening to what feels good. Again, you know, for me, that's feeling at peace, but just paying attention and trying to let go of the external expectations, which admittedly are probably ones we place on ourselves, you know? So I think it's just really getting quiet, listening, and trusting those are kind of the greatest lessons that have kind of come forth. So it didn't come easily.
It didn't come easily. But it was always there. And I think part of me, that's why I wanted to share this book, is it doesn't have to require a crisis to get in touch with yourself, but it does require paying attention and being present. So if there's one takeaway from this entire book, I hope it's that that people find a tool or a practice that just allows them to just kind of deepen that connection with themselves, which ultimately will deepen their connection with those around them.
What is one thing in your day? You can't do it without Paige. Ooh, that's a great question. I mean, I sound, keep repeating it, but I think it's meditation.
Your meditation teacher, your lads are paid at like multiple times. It's totally fine. Yeah, and this is where I teach when it's kind of selfish for me, because it really is, it's just a non-negot, it's done so much for my life. And again, it's helped me, just like my teacher said at the Topocenter, it's not about getting good at meditation, it's about getting good at life.
And I just feel like I have such a more fulfilled and joyful life right now. And I think meditation was kind of the gateway to get there. How would you describe the soul? I think the soul is just that deepest part of ourselves that is always guiding us to be our most authentic self.
One of my favorite teachers, his name is Matt Kahn. He's asked me to check him out. He does a lot of YouTube talks, but he shares a story that our souls are atop choosing which light to come into. And they're like, oh, okay, that one looks good.
I'll become a human. I'll come into that human form. And then when we get here, it's like, oh, didn't read the fine print. That is so good.
So I think the soul just transcends all lifetimes. But it's just that connection that's never going anywhere. Oh, didn't read the fine print. No, I'm here.
Whoa. Py H and what is fulfillment to you? Filman is just feeling peaceful, connection to myself, to the people I love, to the experiences I love. And I think it's laughter and really just enjoying life.
Do you think that definition has probably changed in the last several years? Oh, that's a good question. I don't even know if I could answer that question before. I think it would have made me panic a little bit because I would have been searching for something outside and would have only seen the thing that I didn't have.
So yeah, I think it's absolutely shifted. Thank you. Thank you, Brooke. Helping me to see that.
I want to go back to kind of what we were talking about at the start, which ties into this fulfillment piece so perfectly. You said in the book and you and you said also in this interview that you had all the makings of fulfillment before you had cancer. You were doing all of the right things. You were a spiritual seeker.
You were involved in wellness. But at the start of the book, you were still in that place of just still not really feeling that deepening of connection with yourself. How did that change for you? What are the pieces that made it come together for you?
Well, I think again, I think I just become spiritually starved. Even though I was still doing kind of the wellness things, I honestly wasn't doing a lot spiritually to connect with my soul. So the cancer kind of catapulted me into that. And it's like all the things that I knew would help me to connect.
That's why that email is just so kind of foreshadowing. So for me, it's really writing is the way to connect. When I'm starting to feel myself kind of feel disconnected, I just turn to my writing and that's really kind of my main way to tap back in. But I also, I keep what's called sound silly, a joy list, but all the things that are fulfilling to me.
So this can be everything from spending time with friends and family to walking my dog to certain crystals, aromatherapy, watching great British baking show on Netflix, whatever it is, anything that's really helping to fill my soul back up. So when I'm starting to feel depleted, I just will tap into one of those things. But I've learned to listen, so it's not getting to that extreme. I can see the signs when it's starting to happen.
But for sure, writing is my number one. It sounds to me like when you said you were doing all the wellness stuff, that sounds like it was like surface level stuff. And it wasn't until you really started to go deeper with like you said, for you that's writing and you're funny because I say joy trigger list is the start of every self-care plan. So I'm talking about that as well.
But it sounds like when you say you kind of deepened that connection. So you can tickle the boxes, but until you're connecting with yourself, it doesn't really bring it all together, does it? Yeah. And I think there has to be a blessing of fear and uncertainty and supposed devastating diagnosis.
It's that it does put you into a place of surrender. And I think surrender is just our automatic way to, there's just nowhere to go but to believe and connect with something higher or bigger, however you wish to define that. So surrender was a great teacher for me and continues to be. You close your book with a beautiful letter and a whole heap of summary points around some of the things that you've learned through this journey you've been on.
Can you shield one of those things with us? Listening to your body was one of the greatest lessons. Just our bodies know it knows when we're feeling stressed, it knows when we're feeling joy. So just paying attention to that and being comfortable expressing that.
The other thing I talk about is to take pause, which is a little anti to our past moving culture. A current way of life, right? We're just running around like hamsters on hamsters, if you ask me. Yeah, absolutely.
I do love the way that you say peace is your new bottom line. That's really going to stick with me. Yeah, oh good. If you can give the listeners just one little thought or one piece of advice to close out on today, what would it be Paige?
To be kind to yourself. If we're not advocating for ourselves, no one else is. My teacher Sarah McLean says the way we we talk to ourselves is how others are going to talk to us. So we better pay attention and just treat ourselves with kindness.
Be kind to yourself. What a good piece of advice to close with. Now I mentioned that Paige's book, Here We Grow, Mindfulness Through Cancer and Beyond is being released this month, May 22nd is the release date. So you can head over to Amazon and pre-order it now and you will receive it on May 22nd.
And if you do that, Paige is generously gifting everybody who pre-orders before May 8th, free access to her self-paced meditation program online called Gate Way to Presence. And that's a $55 value. So head over to the show notes. You will see the link to claim your pre-order gift and also a link to order Here We Grow.
You can head to my website thrive.how forward slash podcast 91 and find them there too. Paige also has some free meditations on her site. So head over to hellopagedavis.com and you will be able to find out all about her and those links. There are a lot of new listeners on the podcast and if you are one of them, welcome, welcome.
It's a week and a half till my group program, Channel Your Shell, goes live. This is a small group program for those of you who have told me that you feel like you are on the back foot, chasing your tail with life, overwhelmed and just don't have the time to get it all done. If you've been looking for an opportunity to work more closely with me, definitely check this one out. It's a small group program, so you will get plenty of individualized attention as well as the support of an awesome small group.
I will take you through so many cool activities to help you really get clear and in control back on the front foot in your life. For more details head to channelyourchill.com or you can head to the work with me tab on my website thrive.how. They both link to the same page. You will end up in the same place.
I'm really looking forward to that one and I will be back next Friday as I always am. So come back and in the meantime keep thriving. Beautiful people, keep thriving.