I'm Brian Myers. I'm Mike Ritalik. I'm Becky Hideoit. And this is Alpelletz, a podcast featuring tips for ag teachers.
We are your agricultural education resource across the web, sharing research based tips and tackling the tough questions facing agriculture teachers every day. Hey Alpellets, welcome back to another episode of Alpelletz Tips for Ag Teachers podcast. This is Brian. I am here with Mike and Becky and we once again are here by the Alpletz and we are lucky to have with us today the extremely popular, the famous Tyler Graham Barry from the University of Tennessee who just let us know that we are his first podcast of the day.
He did not say how many other hundreds of podcasts interviews he has skiddled for the rest of the day but Tyler, thank you for squeezing us in today. Thank you for having me. I'm not going to list the number of podcasts I'm a guest on today but we will say that you are at the top of my list. That's for sure.
You know, we are on a lot of lists. That's like a reaction that you had when he saw me yesterday. Yes, yes. We are on a lot of lists.
So Tyler, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you're doing there in the Great Smoky Mountains. All right. I'm the Assistant Professor of Agricultural Education at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville and here on Rocky Top my job is to help prepare ag teachers and so that's a combination of undergraduate students who are taking the traditional route to school-based ag education and also through our alternative certification program in Tennessee. We have students that are enrolled in both that are working their way slowly but surely into the profession that so many of us have been a part of or are still trying to be a part of even though we're not in the classroom anymore.
So that's kind of what I do now. I used to be an ag teacher. I was an ag teacher like a lot of the folks that listen to this podcast. I was an ag teacher in Texas for six years.
I really enjoyed my job. I was someone that tried to be active in a lot of diverse areas as an ag teacher and you know just by more love than anything else found my way into academia and on this side of it. So I'm still trying to stay involved and even though I'm not in the high school classroom anymore, I still like to interact with ag teachers and help them out however I can. That is awesome.
Well, you're doing some great stuff there at the University of Tennessee. But today we have a specific topic talking about, partly about preparing ag teachers. What are you going to talk about today? We are looking at agricultural mechanics in the preparation of teachers, ag teachers and what that looks like today versus what it looks like in years past because there's a big difference now versus what a lot of people were trained in not too terribly long ago.
I think that's a great place to start. And before we dig into your research, tell us a little bit about how and what you've observed ag mechanics looking like today versus what it might have looked like a few years ago. The big two things that I'm interested in here is number one, that full content itself is changing. It's becoming a lot more technology based.
There's a lot more emphasis on STEM integration and things like that, just to where it's not as much of only welding and turning rinches and things like that. I think a lot of people associate it with old vocational agriculture model. And then on the other side of it, what actually pushed me towards graduate school and towards this research was when I was getting started in my career as an ag teacher, I felt really prepared. I took a lot of ag mechanics classes as an undergraduate student and I thought that was normal.
And as I got out into the profession with other beginning ag teachers, I found out that that was actually abnormal. And a lot of them who were expected to teach that content just didn't have that level of training. So I got prepared as to why, what causes those differences, what does that look like from state to state, that kind of thing. So I think going to that idea of gaps, that was one of my first questions and even just reading the abstract.
When I think about the piece of what you know, are we thinking about gaps in traditional ag mechanics versus new or actual gaps in how well prepared we are? And it kind of sounds like we're thinking about both. And even thinking about my own preparation, I don't know, kind of thinking about what was normal where we had the option, even thinking about the gap, then of I got to pick the ag mechanics that I took, like when it comes to ag content, you got to pick. And what's an undergrad going to pick?
Well, I'm going to pick the thing that I'm not going to fail at. I'm going to GPA to keep up. So I'm maybe not going to pick the thing that I really need to develop in. So it sounds like there's a piece both of not developing the things we're going to be teaching, but also ag mechanics content relative to what's being used in industry has changed quite a bit when we think about precision, ag, we're thinking about drones about GPS, GIS.
So which way are we going? Where do you want to focus? Where do we want to focus today, Tyler? I think the big thing is just talking about the training itself.
And that's kind of what you're talking about is what are they, what are they being trained in because for a lot of our students and a lot of the folks, especially the folks who are coming in alternatively certified, the training that they're getting is just not as much in quantity. What we're really hoping for is primarily that they're going to be able to introduce students to a lot of these top because even though we're dealing with highly technical stuff, especially my precision, ag and things like that, there's a point where we have to pass the time to people in professional training programs in technical schools and even industry that wants to train their own people. But there's an entry point for students that we want to get them to where they're interested in this content and they want to continue down those career paths. And trying to get a teacher ready to do that is the big challenge because either the classes don't fit in their degree plan or in some cases the classes don't exist.
I know that's a challenge we had at the University of Tennessee when I first got here. Well, I think that's so critical. And I really, I don't want to understate this like introductory point where we're getting students interested in this, I think often, particularly ag and mechanics and feel really intimidating because all I've got to be an expert in welding engines and precision ag, but we don't need to be an expert to give students a taste and help them to put their toe in the water. So what do they think you found their Tyler?
What do we, how are we training these folks right now? So the big part of the research that we did was we compared the preparation that undergraduate students and ag gave are receiving to some studies that had been done right at the beginning of the 21st century. So we would look back, not quite 20 years to see what that difference in training looked like. And essentially we lost classes somewhere along the way.
We lost on average across the nation about the equivalent of pre close to six credit hours. So two classes that generally would be required 20 years ago that are not required today. And the big reason for that is for a lot of folks in years past, we just, we had more credit hours in our degree programs. And so like when I was coming out as an undergraduate, I had 136 hour ag ed degree.
Now 120 is the standard across the nation for all degrees. And it looks like a lot of that coursework that had to come out was in ag mechanics from what we can tell. And I think that that can be problematic, particularly as we're talking a little bit about not only trying to provide the fundamentals and core ag mechanic skill sets in around that, but also the growth in other activities like Becky had talked about precision ag and GIS and drones and where we can go. And so what recommendations or suggestions do you have Tyler for how do we go about helping to improve the future of this?
One thing that I feel like has to be said, because it's just critical to what we found and kind of what our implications were from the research is that there's not room to add a whole lot of classes back for students as they're preparing to be ag teachers. There's not, you know, there's not going to be room to say, oh, well, we can make an exception in 120 hours for ag education students. And so it's really going to be a twofold process. One is the classes that they do have access to trying to make sure that those are really good fit for the states that we as the teacher educators serve, that those classes that they're taking are reflective of what ag mechanics looks like in their state is giving them enough knowledge that when they start in the classroom on day one, they can get started.
It doesn't have to be that advanced stuff, just enough to get them started. And then that's where step two comes in is we really need to identify specific areas of professional development or other forms of alternative learning for these new teachers that are coming in. And in some cases, even the teachers who've been doing it for a little while who want to refresh their knowledge, pick up on some of the new technology, new things that are coming in. And so trying to either offer that professional development ourselves or facilitate it through you know, be that industry or other folks who are a little bit more specialized in some of that technology.
Getting the students started and then trying to follow up with them as they worked through that early part of their career and give them really as many skills as we can get on the fits their needs. So we talk about AgMac in the state. I'm going to need you to clarify a little bit for me because when we talk, I think this is something that we're wrestling with in our own teacher preparation program, reflective of the facilities available that students are going to go into or reflective of Ag industry. When I think about some of our programs across the state, when we talk about the facilities that are already there where the investment has been made, this is what we're going to teach.
But that's not necessarily reflective of what folks need in their communities or across the state when it comes to Ag mechanics. So is there also a little bit of the issue here where we're talking about some of the lag maybe what's there and when we talk about what's reflective of the state, are we talking about facilities available or Ag industry? Yeah, I think that's a really good point because when we look at what Ag mechanics has been traditionally for decades, even going back to the old like vocational agriculture model, that's when a lot of these facilities were built that students are still being taught in. And when I was teaching, we were teaching in an agricultural science building with a shop that even though we had updated equipment and things like that at the end of the day, the facility was designed at the 70s.
And you know, we were trying to teach skills that were a little bit farther along. And that's a big investment to ask for a lot of schools. I mean, this is not something where we buy a new set of textbooks or we purchase just a new curriculum and we're good to go like for a lot of schools, this is tens of thousands of dollars of equipment updates over in some cases years just to try to stay on track. And so it really takes industry partnerships as a guide as to what are the skill sets that we would like to see students who are coming out of these programs have in Ag mechanics and what does that look like?
And that's, you know, we're talking about trying to track employers and who is hiring people to do what and what they need when they walk in the door on the first day. And that's a really difficult place to be because that's definitely a state by state picture. It looks different everywhere. What we would expect Ag mechanics to be in Texas or in Tennessee or in South Dakota or those going to be three very different pictures and so trying to figure out what those skill needs are in each one of those areas and help guide programs in that direction, especially with that kind of investment.
That's a that's a tall order. I think also ties to something that you talked about earlier in terms of where we passed the baton. And I think my initial reaction is somebody who prepares teachers was where do I pass the baton in terms of I don't have the expertise to teach this or the facilities to teach it. But it's also thinking about in those communities where are we passing the baton and partnering with the folks that are that are there that have the equipment that have the expertise that is not just this post secondary passing at the time, but also thinking about how do we really engage differently around ag mechanics in our communities.
Yeah, it's certainly one of those things of there's a point where we have to try to try to visualize what that passing at the time looks like. And ideally, we want to get students interested in what gets them started down that career path. And if that is a simple understanding of what tools look like and how to identify them and what they're used for or parts of an engine on the basic level or things like that, trying to figure out where that introductory line is and where that fits within the program and then how far that needs to carry forward. And I think the teacher training part is a big part of it.
I have an interest in ag mechanics, I always have, but at the end of the day, I'm not a welder. I'm not a mechanic. I'm a teacher by trade who is luckily trained in a lot of these things, but at the end of the day, I am not in the industry. So I rely on the industry to help provide those guides.
And it's really, really helpful when big companies are hiring a lot of people for this work will say, here's what we would love to see our entry level positions have knowledge wise when they start and they enter into our training programs, whether that's a diesel mechanic program for an equipment manufacturer or, you know, welding or something even more specialized than that, like GIS or drone technology, they all are going to need something different for their industry and trying to figure out those means of communication as to where we need to pass that the time. That's the tough part. Yeah, I think that's fundamental. Understanding and knowing where the community, where advisory committees really have some input and some feedback as to the skill sets, where we would start in our programs and where we would train people up to in order to help them transition out.
And one of those areas, I think, and maybe you can speak to this, Tyler, is how does kind of a culture of safety or safety education kind of play into all of this? Yeah, I think that's probably because safety is going to be fundamental in no matter what part of ag mechanics you're looking at, whether you're looking at metal fabs, electricity, equipment, things like that. Safety is the one unifying factor across the board. And instilling the necessity of a culture of safety with our students at the secondary level, even starting it, we could be in some cases talking about middle school students who just need to learn basic safety procedures that are transferable to any industry.
That's something that we know from all kinds of reports from people who are hiring for this type of work. That's the appreciation for safety and respect for a culture of safety is the thing that across the board is always there. And so even if, as an ag teacher, if I'm starting out and I feel unprepared in a lot of specific, highly technical ag mechanics components, I can still try to work towards that safety piece. Even if we're doing stuff that's very small, not very technical, and maybe I feel like I'm not an expert, I can still work on that safety component because that's the one thing, as I said, that's going to be transferable to any area within this content.
And that's going to be important for employers. That's going to be important for technical schools that may be the next step for some of these students. That's the great unifier here. So, Tyler, I think you've done some great work here in ag mechanics.
I think AgMEC is kind of unique. Maybe there's maybe not from our profession because we teach content across, you know, but it's always working with somebody else. Yeah, historically, sometimes since some teacher prep programs, AgMEC, the AgMEC part is in the same department as the Agit, and in some places it's not, where it has necessarily hasn't been the case for like animal science, plant science, those sort of things. And so I think that's part of this idea about how you build that into the program, what should be part of that because of how our institutions are set up.
But then also with about how an ag teacher manages all of the technical expertise they're supposed to have because just as you've listed all these things, they should know about AgMEC mechanics, we could come up with the exact same list for animal science, plant science, soils, horticulture, whatever else. So it's part of this idea of this larger plan for professional development, staying on top of things here. So as we kind of wrap up this conversation, what's your message for state leaders? Whether that be the professional development committees for ag teachers, associations in the state or state leaders, whatever, how can they set these things up to help teachers manage all of this different technical content they need to be on top of?
I think, and I don't have a perfect answer. I don't think there ever is one, but if I'm going to try to get close to it, it's got to be a collaborative conversation. It's got to be voices of teachers who are saying, here's what I need, and here's the time I have a lot to do it, or what my expectations are. It's voices from industry saying, hey, we're doing the hiring for the students that are coming out of these programs, or these technical programs, here's what we want to see.
And it's going to take some people on the side of administration, whether that's at the state level, or even in some cases at the local school district level, of seeing the value in investing in some of this, which can sometimes be pretty pricey, even just for the professional development itself. So I guess the call to action here is have conversations about what needs are on multiple sides, and try to set up or facilitate professional development opportunities that fit the best possible. I don't think there's going to be a perfect fit, but trying to approach that best possible outcome is going to be the important thing going forward. I think that's a great conversation, a great way to think about that thing is really building this out because none of us have all the answers that's going to take this team approach to get here to manage those things for our teachers.
So Tyler, thank you so much for being with us here today. You've got some great work going on here. We hope people continue to engage with this work, see what's going on here. Because I know in a lot of states, we are seeing the resurgence of Ag mechanics again in our programs that kind of died off for a few years, is coming back with it with the importance there.
And so this is very timely work that you have completed for us. And again, I hope our state leaders and all of us pay attention to your advice and your good words. So thanks for being with us here today on Alpelots. Hey, thanks for having me.
You hope you've enjoyed this episode of Alpelots. Check out our website for more information on this topic and to learn more about our guests. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagrams. Stay connected and be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you'll never miss an episode.
For Mike and Becky, this is Brian here by the Alpelots saying thank you and we look forward to seeing you again on another episode of Alpelots.