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Welcome to the new books network. Hello everyone and welcome to World Christianity, a special series on the new books network. This podcast is for those who would like to explore the expansive discourse on world Christianity as a global phenomenon. And as an emerging field that examines Christianity's cross-cultural, diasporic, and transnational manifestations, by paying close attention to the underrepresented and marginalized expressions of the Christian faith in the global south.
Thank you for joining me today. I'm very excited to share this interview with you all. I'm your host, Biom Ho Choi from Princeton Theological Seminary. Ecumenism and Independency in World Christianity, historical studies in honor of Bryan Stanley, co-edited by Alexander Chow and Emma Wildwood, and published by Brill in 2020, is a collection of essays on the entangled nature of ecumenism and independence in the modern global history of Christianity, which also demonstrates the transnational connectivity as well as local and contextual expressions of Christianity.
This volume, as indicated in the title, pays homage to Bryan Stanley, a scholar of world Christian history and professor of world Christianity at the University of Edinburgh, whose work has shaped and influenced scholars around the world from his first emergence as a lecturer at Spurgeon's College, a Baptist theological institution. Stanley has become a prolific writer and has immensely contributed in the understanding of the history of Christianity. From his long list of publication, and just to name a few here, includes the Bible and the flag, Protestants, missions, and British imperialism into 19th and 20th centuries. The history of the Baptist Missionary Society, 1792 to 1992, the World Missionary Conference at Edinburgh 1910, the Global Diffusion of Evangelicalism, the Age of Billy Graham and John Scott, and last but not least, Christianity in the 20th century, a world history, which is considered as Bryan Stanley's magnum opus.
And to briefly comment, our listeners can also find the podcast interview between Bryan Stanley and Crawford Ribbon in our very own new books network on his monograph Christianity in the 20th century. Boring the words of one of our editors, Bryan Stanley's internationally acclaimed historical scholarship on world Christianity has given significant attention to global movements and events as a way of comprehending the modern missionary movement, and the churches that have developed as a direct or indirect result of it. As David Bebington has described in the first chapter of his volume, Bryan Stanley is indeed quote, a Pathfinder in assessing the phenomenon of global Christianity that has come into existence during his lifetime end quote. And be fedingly, this very volume has brought together internationally renowned historians and theologians who have worked with Bryan Stanley and who have been influenced by his scholarship.
So over the course of our conversation, we will take a closer look at this pivotal volume, how both the work of Bryan Stanley and the many essays in this book guides the readers in examining changes in world Christianity, and how scholars and students of all Christianity stand to benefit from this wonderful book. To learn more about these issues and more, please stay tuned and we hope you enjoy the book and our conversations as well. Today I'm privileged to talk with Dr. Alexander Chow and Dr.
Emma Wylwood, the co-editors of Ecumenism and Independence in World Christianity, historical studies in honor of Bryan Stanley. But before we begin, I'd like to introduce our two distinguished guests. First, Dr. Alexander Chow is senior lecturer in theology and world Christianity in the School of Divinity at the University of Edinburgh and the co-director of the Center for the Study of World Christianity.
He is currently the co-editor of the Journal of Studies in World Christianity by Edinburgh University Press and served as an editor of Liu Institute series in Chinese-Christianities by the University of Notre-Dame Press. Dr. Chow's research focuses on Christianity in China, Chinese philosophy and religion, and engages in a broad range of theology, such as contextual theology, especially in East Asia, public theology, and emerging digital theology. As long as the publication treats multiple topics which include theology, Christianity and religion in China, Christian missions, world Christianity, and digital culture.
He has also authored two books, Theosis, Sino-Christian Theology and the Second Chinese Enlightenment, published by Paul Graham Macmillan in 2013, and Chinese Public Theology, generational shifts and confusion imagination in Chinese Christianity by Oxford University Press in 2018. And it was just a couple months ago that his book co-edited by Easton Law titled Ecclesial Diversity in Chinese Christianity was published by Paul Graham Macmillan. Our second guest is Dr. Emma Wildwood, who is senior lecturer in African Christianity and African Indigenous religions in the School of Divinity at the University of Edinburgh, where Dr.
Chow serves as the co-editor of the Center for the Study of World Christianity and is also the co-editor of the Journal of Studies in World Christianity by Edinburgh University Press. She is currently the co-editor of the book series, Religion in Transforming Africa, published by James Curry Publishers, and a member of the editorial board for the following two journals, Exchange Journal for Contemporary Christianity in Context, and also the Journal of the International Association for Mission Studies. Dr. Wildwood focuses on religious encounter in Sub-Saharan Africa, particularly Christian conversion and the growth of mission-initiated denominations between 1800 and the present day.
Her research has also examined the impact of migration on Christianity, Christian identity in the Democratic Republic of Congo, East African Revival, and on Migration in Christianity in Africa and the United Kingdom. Her experience teaching in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, and Cambridge has contributed for her to teach and write on a wide spectrum of issues, such as the history of Christianity in Africa and African religious diversity. Her published monographs include Migration and Christianity, Migration and Christian Identity in Congo, published by Brill in 2008, and just last year, the monograph, the mission of Apollo, Kiva Boo Laia, a religious change in the African Great Lakes, 1870 to 1835, published by James Curry Publishers in 2020. So after this long introduction, I would tell like to re-welcome our very own Dr.
Chiao and Dr. Wildwood to new books, networks, and world Christianity, and it is a wonderful treat to have the both of you come on the podcast to talk about your book. Thank you very much for having us. It's good to be here.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the conversation. Thank you. Thank you for joining me on today's podcast interview. I think it'll be great if we can begin our conversation today by getting to know our authors.
So do you mind sharing a few words about yourselves, about your background, where you grew up, where you did your PhD, and how you became interested in your field of study? I would like to first ask Dr. Chiao, would you like to begin? Sure, I'd be glad to begin.
I'm a Chinese American born and raised in Southern California, and I grew up in a region of Los Angeles County known as San Gabriel Valley, or the SGV. When I was growing up there, my family was amongst the first ethnic Chinese in the region, but today if you're familiar with the SGV, it's known for its thriving Asian American population. I completed my undergraduate in the University of California, San Diego, in computer science, and had a first career as a software engineer. But later on, I had a growing interest in theology and studied at Fuller's Theological Seminary, then at Regent College of Vancouver, and my PhD in Theology at the University of Birmingham, UK.
In terms of our discussion for today, my main fields of interest have been Chinese Christianity and World Christianity. The first of these, I think, partly comes out of my biography as a Chinese American born into a non-Christian home and later becoming a Christian. I think part of my own discovery of Chinese Christian theology comes out of an examination of what it means to think theologically as a Chinese Christian. The second field that is of world Christianity really came out of necessity.
I applied for a job here at the University of Edinburgh that was looking for an early career scholar in world Christianity. While I came to it by accident, I also became hugely interested in the theological implications of this topic of world Christianity. Well, that's for me. I come from the north of England, a county called Yorkshire, and perhaps one of my earliest memories was the place where I grew up had a large minority of people from the Caribbean.
First and my generation, second generation, and I was very influenced by the friends that I had then and also the style of worship. Perhaps that sets me on a track for World Christianity, I'm not entirely sure, but I came up to Edinburgh to study theology. I also took a Masters here as well, and after that I went and taught in the Democratic Republic of Congo, a place called Wunya, right in the northeast of the country. Prior to teaching there, I thought about taking a PhD, but having taught there for six or seven years, I came back to do that PhD and came to the centre for the study of world Christianity as we call it today here in Edinburgh to do that.
So in many ways I am a product of the pioneering centre that we have here, and the study of my PhD was very much working with those people I got to know in Congo and became eventually that first monograph you mentioned, looking at the way my body was working on the way. Migration changes Christian identity and what migrants also take with them to a new place. Thank you so much to the both of you for a chance, this opportunity to get to know you both better. A brief follow up question that I have is as I've commented in the introduction, and as it is also written in the title of this book, this volume celebrates Brian Stanley's contributions.
And I think it is important to talk about how Brian Stanley has also influenced the both of you. I know Dr. Chao has briefly mentioned him coming to University of Edinburgh and how also Brian Stanley has influenced you. We would love to hear that story as well.
But do you mind sharing with us how he has, Brian Stanley has impacted you and your scholarship, and I would like to direct the first answer to Dr. Wildwood. Yeah, thank you. I am primarily a historian like Brian Stanley and social historian, and I first met Brian some years before I started my PhD at the Accusia School History Society Conference.
I was in the conference, I grew up in the UK, and he took an interest in this early work I was doing on the East African Revival because he had also written on it. Then we kind of connected again as I moved down to Cambridge, and I became involved in the committee, the Henry Martin Center Committee, which became the center for Christianity worldwide. I taught with Brian, and eventually I took over the post when he came up to Edinburgh, I took over his post in Cambridge. So I think he has informed my scholarship, but also my career in many ways and has been a gentle and support and important occasions.
And I've learned from his teaching style and his organization of curriculum as well. I think in terms of scholarship, he led the North Atlantic Missyology Project and then Currents in World Christianity from Cambridge, and it was that scholarship, much of which has found itself into the Edmund series that he edited with Bob Prickenberg, that has been particularly generative. And some of his really helpful introductions, the way that he formed some of the conferences I only managed to attend, one of them, I think one or two of them, the scholars that he brought together have all been hugely influential in my work. So I think as he moved from this history of missions, which is still very, very important into thinking about the resection of the history of missions, the adaptation, the change that goes on in Christian churches, that has been particularly generative.
Thank you. Dr. Child, would you also like to speak to how Brian Stanley has also influenced you? Yes, thank you.
Well, like I said earlier, it was when I applied to his job in Edinburgh that I was sort of forced to think about World Christianity. Brian was perhaps the first person to ask me to define this word World Christianity, and that was in my job interview. So, you know, warning for all those applying for jobs out there, you know, make sure you know the definition of the words that on the titles of jobs that you apply for. But moreover, when I came to Edinburgh, I had to come up with new courses for the World Christianity program here.
That was obviously part of my job. At first, I was thinking maybe I could teach something related to my own research background, which at the time was largely within theology in Chinese theology or Asian Christian theology. But Brian suggested that I widen the scope of my teaching about theology to include other contexts. And this was where when I started to read the works of African Christians, such as Kwame Baidiakko or Mercy Oduyoye, and I began to search for theological writings in other parts of the world.
And so, I was a African theologian that I hadn't heard of at the time, such as Renee Padilla, as well as Indigenous voices in the Americas and Oceania. In part, I think for Brian, this was an important task because our students in World Christianity here in the University of Edinburgh, both at the master's level and the PhD level, come from so many backgrounds and interests, not only Chinese or Asian, focus on Asian Christianity. And I also think that if you look at Brian's own scholarship, he has written about every conceivable context in the world. It's actually quite scary how much he's written.
In many ways, it's a testimony of his scholarship and his interest. Whenever I've tried to start researching a new topic, inevitably I encounter one of his essays or something that he's written on the subject. But really, it also demonstrates how much he, as a scholar of World Christianity, is also so well-informed about the world's Christians. In that way, I'm also quite impressed, and he has impressed quite a lot on my own scholarship and my own thinking.
And even though I see myself primarily as a theologian in the discipline of theology, and Brian would perhaps identify himself chiefly as a historian, I think there is a lot of richness that I've gained from his approach to scholarship. Thank you to both of you for sharing that. I think, as you mentioned, the magnitude and the brilliance of Brian Stanley's contribution to speak for themselves, as I have in my own studies, learned so much from his work. And if you're studying in World Christianity, it is without a doubt that you have come across Brian Stanley's name and his publication, whether it is his books or one of his many journal articles.
But now I'm speaking on World Christianity, though. I'm also very fortunate to have with me two senior lecturers who not only teach World Christianity at the University of Edinburgh, but also co-lead the Center for the Study of World Christianity and also co-edit the Studies of World Christianity Journal. And as we take a step closer to the contents of the very book that we are here to discuss, I thought it would be pertinent to talk about World Christianity. Especially for our audience that might be still new to the term World Christianity, one can ask what is World Christianity, even among scholars, you know, there's still this ongoing discussion on what is World Christianity.
Is it an approach? Is it a field? Or is it even a subfield? But Dr.
Chai and Dr. Wildwood, in your academic research and in your own scholarship, how have you understood World Christianity and what does it mean to study World Christianity? I'm asking this as I think your perspectives will also be very beneficial for students and young emerging scholars of World Christianity. So do you mind expounding on your understanding of this concept and what it entails?
Dr. Chai, would you like to begin? Yeah, this is a great question and one that increasingly, since that fateful day of my interview, I've been putting more thought into. I think on a popular level, the World Christianity is the recognition that nearly two thirds of the World Christian population is now dominated by Africans, Asians, Latin Americans, and Indigenous peoples in Western contexts.
In many ways, then World Christianity is a shorthand to speak about the worldwide phenomenon of Christianity. Academically, the term suggests that all these new contexts bring shape to new expressions of Christianity, but also that old ways of studying Christianity needs to be examined and perhaps that lends itself towards new methods and new disciplines in that encounter. So for instance, if we look at Asia as a general category, I know there's a lot of variety and differences within the Asian continent and beyond Asia as well, but if we talk about Asia, it's rarely the case in which we can study Christianity in Asia or Asian Christianity without, for instance, considering the implications of religiously plural societies. Comparatively, while many countries in Africa can boast of 80 to 90 percent Christian adherency in Asia, there are few countries with a Christian majority, really with an exception of the Philippines and Timor-Leste.
Even a country like South Korea, Catholics and Protestants combine account for less than a third of the population. So World Christianity suggests that new questions and new methods are required in the study of Asian Christianity. This offers a corrective and wholesale, Euro-American focus on the study of Christianity. But I think in terms of both of these matters, that is the statistical shift and the academic shift, they slightly overshadow a different matter, which I think is perhaps deeper in the nature of Christianity.
And that is simply that World Christianity is normative Christianity. We see this in the biblical narrative from Abraham being blessed to become a nation to bless others or to the book of Acts where the Christian religion shifted from the center of Jewish followers in Jerusalem to the center of Gentile followers in Rome. But we also see this in the early church where Christianity spread southward to Africa and eastward to Asia. Hence at the very core of Christianity is an aspiration to be world Christianity, to be, shall I say, a blessing to all peoples.
So if World Christianity is normative Christianity, it suggests a new way of understanding the implications of Christianity from both popular and scholarly perspectives. And I think perhaps I'm speaking as a theologian and this is sort of my take on World Christianity, but obviously there's a multitude of ways to look at it. Thank you. Dr.
Wallwood, would you like to answer? Well, you won't be surprised to hear that Alex and I agree quite a bit on what World Christianity is since we worked so closely together. But I think in terms of what we might say about the study of World Christianity, I've tried to think about where we are at the moment. It may be that study of World Christianity will shift and change as new concerns arise.
That should certainly be the case. But I think we've seen that where we are at the moment, we've developed an approach to the way that we engage perhaps as theologians, perhaps as historians, perhaps as social scientists. And that's interdisciplinary, interdisciplinarity that we may, anyone's scholar may come from from a particular discipline, but we'll move across disciplines where we know that a discipline is quite important. And so we're looking to Christian people's practices to Christian thought to the environment in which Christians live and work and worship right across the globe.
I think we're very interested in diversity, diverse expressions of Christian people and willing to pretty much encompass anyone who self declares as Christian, whatever their particular doctrine, position or set of practices might be. We're also interested in interconnectedness. I think this has been a more recently recognizing that we Christians do connect across the globe. They do move across the globe.
And these transnational links are important. I think one of the things that a lot of World Christianity scholars do is prioritizing people or places or ideas that on the margins. And often cultural cultural marginal in some way or another. Again, we may see a shift in that.
I think we are often committed to engage with Christians worldwide, not simply to study them from a distance, but to be alongside and to engage. Many people who study World Christianity are themselves Christians. Some people are not. But again, there's a sense of encountering engagement.
And then I think we prioritize scholarships in other parts of the globe and try and be informed by that because I think scholarship that comes from the World Church opens up new possibilities, ask different questions, comes up with different answers simply than scholarship in the West. And that's very important for us to constantly attend to. But nevertheless, I think we see the study of World Christianity still primarily based in the North Atlantic. And it's kind of serving as a corrective to a Western centric scholarship that we have seen for so long.
So that would be my kind of summing up of what we do. Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights and to your approach and understanding of World Christianity. I'm sure that what you have shared will really expand our knowledge, our listeners knowledge of world Christianity as well. And then kind of now segue into the book itself.
It is comprised of 17 chapters with 17 contributors, theologians and historians, and the who's who of history of Christianity and world Christianity and even mission studies, which all includes a chapter and also includes a chapter by the late Andrew Wall's, the pioneering figure in the field of world Christianity. And two editors, Dr. Charlie and Dr. Wildwood have thoughtfully organized the book into three parts, part one titled studying world Christianity, part two Christians working together and part three, floor form Christianity, all which provide in a way historical studies of the richness of the Christian faith in the world church.
For my next question, I was wondering if you could tell us a bit more on what goes on behind the scenes and now making this book. I think this serves as a great advantage for podcast interviews as we have the opportunity to hear what goes on beyond the four corners of the book. What were some of the goals you had in mind for this great volume and if I may break down this broad question into sub questions I'm curious to know how did this volume come into fruition. What was your editorial experience like.
And as you were editing this volume, who are your intended readers that you had in mind. Dr. Child would you like to begin. Sure.
Well, in many ways this book came out quite naturally from the person in the work of Brian Stanley. The book is a fesheriff. That is, it is a volume put together to honor the life and the scholarship of a person of Brian Stanley in this case. And it was on the occasion of his partial retirement from the University of Edinburgh.
As such, we wanted to focus on some of the key themes that can be found in Brian's writings, but we also wanted to invite contributors who are personally close to Brian. Perhaps that second category, the contributors is perhaps less comprehensive around the topics as we may see in a non-fesheriff perhaps. But really in terms of these themes of ecumenism and dependency, I mean, I may want to speak more about these later, but it's safe to say that these two themes are quite pregnant topics that we find in Brian's writings from the first book written published in 1990 until in 2018. But furthermore, we wanted a volume that would push on these twin themes to help broaden our understanding of the tensions which embody the academic study of world Christianity.
In terms of contributors, we were grateful to include some of Brian's mentors, such as David Thompson, who is Brian's PhD supervisor. And as you mentioned earlier, Andrew Walls, who many people don't know was the external examiner for Brian's PhD Viva. So it was quite special in many ways to have Andrew Walls contribute a chapter. But we are also glad to include some of Brian's collaborators and friends, such as David Bebington, Robert Krickenberg, Dana Robert, Mark Knoll, some scholars, one scholar in particular Gary Teedeman wrote and finished his chapter as he was suffering from long term sickness.
And although he did not survive to see the text in print, he really wanted to dedicate his energy, what was left of it to honoring Brian, which I think is a testimony by itself. Another anticipated contributor was LaMsona. Unfortunately, LaMsona passed away before he could write his piece. But we were also glad to have contributors from a number of his PhD students.
And to be honest, I wanted to have more essays from PhD students. But this was a bit of a challenge. And this is not a challenge because due to the lack of PhD students Brian, of course, has supervised many PhD students over his career covering all sorts of topics from social scientific studies of African Christianity to studies in practical theology and Asian Christianity and so forth. But as a volume was in honor of a historian, we wanted it to focus on historical scholarship in world Christianity.
And that was a particular challenge for the breadth of students that Brian had. Nevertheless, we were glad to include Brian's very first PhD student, Sebastian Kim, as well as some of his more recent students, such as Andrew Kaiser and Marina Wang. Needless to say, it was a huge delight editing the volume. And I should probably add there that working with Emma was a great treat by itself as well.
But I think editing this volume was a huge delight really because this was a top notch team of scholars writing contributions about and in respect to a scholar who is also a top notch scholar. And so even as we were bringing the volume to a close, and when we announced that it was being published, more and more scholars came up to us and said, we wanted to contribute something to how come you didn't include us. And I think that by itself, I mean, deciding who gets added into a volume is one thing, but I think it's a huge testimony to Brian's scholarship and also his, him as a person, and as a mentor and a friend that highlight something very beautiful about editing the volume of this sort. Yeah, I don't think there's too much I can add to that, but since this is a kind of what's an all question, I think it's perhaps worth reflecting on the kind of structure or the superstructure of this volume, because publishers by and large today will not just publish And they do so with good reason.
There are some marvelous specialists out there, but simply a jumble of articles, no matter how good in recognition of a eminent scholar does not make the books fly off the shelves as far as the publishers are concerned. So before we began this task, we knew that we would have to have a theme, something that would both recognize the scholarship that Brian has done and also enable the people we wanted to invite to contribute from the work they were already doing. That's quite tricky. So, Alex has already said, you know, this is very much focused on the historical and then trying to think, well, what will enable this range of scholars to pick up the work of the work of the people who are doing this?
To pick up the work they're already doing and reflect in a particular way in an original way, give us a new piece of work that also connected what Brian's doing. And that's why we came up with the title or the words humanism and independency as something that we felt all the people we invited could find some purchase on and something that we could reflect on and make a genuine contribution to scholarship that we would hope would be informative for other people. Thank you. Again, another great advantage we have today in talking about this marvelous volume is that both of our editors have also made tremendous contributions in this volume.
Dr. Wellwood, you have provided the introductory chapter and Dr. Chalk has provided the last chapter 17 and the afterward as well. If it is all right with both of you, I have prepared separate questions regarding each of your contributions and I would like to kind of first begin by directing my question to Dr.
Wildwood. Your introductory chapter is actually the same as the title of this book, Humanism and Independence in World Christianity. And here you eloquently trace kind of the outlines of the volume and provide groundwork for what this book will offer and how it will benefit those studying world Christianity and there's also here that you specifically unravel. And I suppose you have repeatedly mentioned that the two key words are themes of this volume, which is ecumenism and independency and how these two terms, even though they may seem contradictory to each other, actually serve as a helpful framework in scrutinizing studies in world Christianity.
If I may briefly refer to one of your previous publications, Dr. Wildwood, such as your 2008 monograph migration and Christian identity in Congo, I had an opportunity to briefly look over your book, even though you might not have specifically referred to this term directly or your research has also addressed these themes of ecumenism and dependency as well in the context of North East Congo, which also echoes how important these themes are and how relevant they are and also in studying world Christianity. So, Dr. Wildwood, do you mind talking more on these themes of ecumenism and independency and elaborating more on what this volume envisions as it uses these two terms and how it also relates to Brian Stanley's work?
Thank you very much. It's kind of you to mention the monograph and perhaps I'll start there just by saying that looking at mainly the Anglican Church in North East Congo, it's engagement a little bit with the Catholic Church and also with an African-Inducerned Church from that African-Inducerned Mission. Really, through up for me, these questions about, well, actually, what does ecumenism look like? What does being independent or that kind of streak of independence look like in a very different context?
And it struck me that the questions that we ask Europe in churches together in Britain Island or churches together in England that I've worked with and even in the World Council of Churches around these issues don't quite kind of scratch where it's itching sometimes. So, when we came to thinking about the theme of this book, I guess those things were in the background of my mind. It seems that ecumenism and independency are words which suggest two distinct impulses that we see throughout the history of Christianity. And we could have, if Brian Stanley hadn't been a kind of modern historian, maybe we would have dealt with these a little differently, but nevertheless, we have a strong desire within Christian movements for unity, for collaboration, for connectivity, whether that be in, you know, strong centralized or fairly centralized organizations like the Catholic Church or the Russian Orthodox Church, whether it be in the kind of reforms, networks or the Lutheran networks, the Anglican Communion, or whether it be in the kind of sharing of ministries and fellowships within Pentecostal churches.
We see those impulses there. But on the other hand, we see also a need for distinction, for plurality, for those Christian churches that have made a deliberate cut from a schism, a move away from another organization because perhaps not trying all differences or differences of practice. We see in world Christianity, most particularly an awareness of the need for a contextual translation at the gospel, but if Christianity is to be alive and vibrant in any context, it needs to be embedded in that context, it needs to be understood in that context. I'd also critique that context as well.
But it needs to make sense in some way, otherwise it has no purchase. So we see these ideas of ecumenism and independence as I've described them existing in critical tension with one another. And we also see that there are deep disagreements within churches and institutions that continue to maintain a common bond. You know, how can that be?
And we find that completely different groups find connections across denominational differences. So I thought as we were discussing this, and Alex and I were thinking that this is a kind of creative friction, friction, not fiction, friction between these impulses was a good lens through which to explore questions of scope and scale and cooperation within world Christianity. And I think, you know, in terms of Brian's historical perspectives, you know, his book on the history of Christianity in the 20th century and is taking of these case studies and seeing connections across the globe and then sometimes quite distinct and different forms of Christianity quite close to each other, geographically speaking, kind of gave our collaborators away in quite a number of them used his method in that book. And I think what we were also doing by the using ecumenism and independence see, we weren't wanting to assume a local or non Western approach to work Christianity, but how an attention to a local contextual approach informs and enriches the attention to the transnational connectivity that we see in our studies of world Christianity.
And all sorts of ideas where independent action for new solidarities and where ecumenism is apparent unity actually highlights Fisher and all those kind of ideas were part and parcel of what we wanted to be able to go away and write and think about. Thank you. Dr. Waldwatt for that detailed answer.
And I think your introduction really sets the groundwork and helps the readers to envision what's going to come next in the chapters, the following chapters of your book and once again, thank you for your answer. You've mentioned also transnational expressions and here are Dr. Chow in your book in your chapter, chapter 17 titled urbanization diaspora and the tenacity of Chinese evangelicalism. You examined the very social history of the Chinese Christian diaspora in three contexts, Britain in the 1960s and 70s the United States in the 1970s and 90s and the urban centers of mainland China in the 1990s and 2010s.
Your chapter, Dr. Chow was very fascinating as you draw out evangelicalism as a common denominator in these three unique times and spaces as you contend that evangelicalism plays a central role for the Chinese Protestants. But what becomes more fascinating is that it is not just a British or American form of evangelicalism that the Chinese Christians adopt but you direct the readers to see the characteristics of a kind of a transnational Chinese Christian Chinese expressions of evangelicalism that is in play. So here I want to pose the next question to you and it is a two part question.
First, do you mind talking more on your understanding of what Chinese evangelicalism entails I know that this topic itself can take a whole podcast show but still it would be very helpful if you could provide some important guidelines or outlines you highlight about Chinese evangelicalism in the beginning of your chapter because this also serves as kind of like the center pillar to your argument. And secondly, I remember in my close reading of your chapter we see these formations of networks these groups and fellowships being established by the Chinese Christian migrants and the role it played in establishing Chinese evangelicalism in Britain and the United States, and in the case of mainland China in the midst of reform movements and the shift from the rule to the urban. We see Chinese Christian figures such as Johnson Chow emerging and also this movement from fundamentalism to even Calvinism taking shape all in relation to Chinese evangelicalism so here I wanted to ask if you could briefly talk about some of the idiosyncrasies of the Chinese evangelicalism that you were able to kind of look at it. And to kind of look at it and identify in these three contexts.
Thank you very much. First, thank you because you have offered such a close reading of my essay and I'm grateful for these helpful clarifying questions. In many ways, you know when I was writing the essay I was thinking a whole book can be written on this topic but I'm going to cram so many top so many regions and on the central question of Chinese evangelicalism into one essay. It catches me on that.
Thank you for your kindness in just a detailed reading and questions. When I was writing the piece I was thinking about this general description of Chinese Protestantism as being one that is evangelical. And I think for the most part this is true that we can describe much of Chinese Protestantism as evangelical. But then the question that you mean it comes from that is what does that mean, actually.
There are a number of problems with this association, no less the current debates around what some may call white evangelicalism and the various debates in the discourse that we have of ex evangelicalism and whatnot in North America for instance. But I found it interesting that many scholars tend to default to the so called Bevington quadrilateral conversionism activism, vidlicism, and cresiscentrism. We're editing this volume right and I knew very well that David Bevington himself would be a contributor in this volume. But at the same time I wanted to critically think about what this definition entailed and whether it was actually all that useful for Chinese Christianity.
In part, I think a lot of scholars use the Bevington quadrilateral quite problematically. That is they use it as the definition for evangelicalism. But we have to remember that when David Bevington was writing his book on this topic, he was actually writing about the history of British evangelicalism, which has a different but related history to American evangelicalism or evangelicalism elsewhere. Well yes, Chinese evangelicalism can also be seen to emphasize the Bible, the toning work of Christ, and the importance of evangelism.
Until recently Chinese evangelicals have not tended to emphasize one of Bevington's four characteristics. That is a form of evangelical social activism. I decided to add a fourth characteristic which brings together two impulses. On the one hand, a kind of Chinese independency or autonomy.
And on the other hand, it desire to collaborate with other Chinese evangelicals regardless of ecclesial affiliation. In many ways this matches the twin themes of the volume. So I thought it was an appropriate discussion to have in this volume. But for my article, I tended to use the word autonomy instead of independency.
Because I don't think the main concern for these Chinese Christians is a separatist impulse that is to be independent from foreign denomationalism per se, but rather a drive by Chinese Christians to address gaps left behind by other Christian leaders. This characteristic of an autonomous yet collaborative ecclesiology can be found in my three examples, and I have very divergent examples in my essay of the three being Britain in the 1960s and 70s, the United States in the 1970s through 90s and urban centers of Milan, China, and the United States. And they also developed quite differently because of their context. For the British and American cases, we see changes in the patterns of Chinese immigration at the end of the 20th century.
And because of various immigration policies, this comes out in different ways. In the US, this tends to be highly educated Chinese who produce a so-called model minority population. Whereas in the UK, this tended to be a working class population in which by 1985, at least 90% of the Chinese in the UK were employed in restaurants or takeaways. Takeaways being the British term for fast food restaurants, if you will.
What we see is that the majority of Christian populations in these contexts did not really think about the Chinese in their midst. It would be the Chinese Christians, often with more conservative outlooks, who focus on addressing the huge influx of Chinese immigration. But they also recognize that they cannot work alone and develop national and transnational networks of Chinese Christians. Now, in mainland China, we don't have quite the same ethnic and cultural mix as in the US or the UK.
But we see a similar pattern due to urbanization in the late 1990s and into the 21st century, where Chinese evangelicals, those in state-sanctioned, three-cell patriotic movement, as well as in unregistered churches, house churches, all looking for ways to address the needs of those who migrate into urban centers and to connect to broader networks within and outside of China. What I find about all three of these expressions of Chinese evangelicalism is that while their social-political experiences are quite different, they all tend to emphasize quite similar impulses. They engage concerns related to home, identity, and belonging, and create a new sense of imagined community known as Chinese evangelicalism. I should probably say that there's perhaps some similarity in other particular expressions of Christianity, not just Chinese evangelicalism, but obviously the chapter itself was very focused on this specific case study.
In some ways, how that connects to these broader twin themes of ecumenism and independence? Thank you, Dr. Chao, and enlightening us the better understanding of what Chinese evangelicalism looks like in these specific three-case studies, which has really provided also a good example of your overarching theme of independence and ecumenism as well. For me, as a doctor of student in the field of world Christianity, I was able to greatly appreciate this volume because it gave me a really great overview of what world Christianity entails, some of the important and ongoing discourses regarding world Christianity.
Most importantly, it takes us on a journey in visiting various contexts and periods and scrutinizing tensions between what Dr. Wildwood has put at the local and the global and the imminent and the transcendent. That is also very important in Bryan Stanley's scholarship. I wish that we could have invited all our contributors for a conversation because of depth and insight they provided is very invaluable.
But if I may just name a few scholars in their chapters, both of you mentioned Mark Knoll, you can see him retracing the significance of the Christian movement across the world at the cusp of the 20th century. We also see Dana Robert creatively utilizing music as a way of connecting the Western missionary world and the development of Christian identities in Asia. We see Marino Wang's chapter sheds light on two important figures, Chang Jingyi and V.S. Azaria, who are vital in the development of the ecumenical movement in Asia in the early 20th century.
Others whose work are also equally important, also emphasize the entangled nature of ecumenism and independence in a variety of historic situations around the world. Here I want to open up this question to you both, and that is as the editors of this volume. What are some of the works or insights within the contributions here that have also enlightened you? And as co-editors, what are some of the aspects of this book you wish to highlight?
So for this question I would like to ask Dr. Wellwood, would you like to begin? Well, thank you. Bianco, I think you already put your finger on the knob of this matter that it's actually quite difficult to choose because we just have such a rich selection in this volume.
And we are so grateful to all the contributors for writing so thoughtfully in response to our invitation. I think perhaps one thing I can highlight, I mentioned already that a number of contributors picked up on this comparative method that Brian uses in his world Christianity, his history of Christianity in the 20th century book. And it strikes me that they did so in some really innovative ways. So we have Kevin Ward's chapter where he compares to evangelical revivals, one in East Africa, which is well known, and then one of the revivals in East Asia, and looks at the way what we can learn by putting those two alongside each other.
And it's perhaps interesting as an aside to notes that how a number of Africanists that we invited also Dana Robert has written on Africa chose to write on East Asia. So I think we perhaps see a real turn away from a real focus on Africa as the study of all Christianity developed. So really, really good scholarship on India. And now we're seeing this sort of Chinese turn that's been going on for a while.
But to name another essay that I think developed Brian's method in an interesting manner was that by Kirsten Kim, where she looks at mission integrated or autonomous by comparing the World Council of Churches and the Lausanne movement. As two organizations that United Churches and Parachurch organizations. And I think what she illuminates there is fascinating. The way in which the missionary impulse is still an important study in world Christianity.
We can't kind of think about the modern missionary movement and then, you know, Christian churches, but rather the sense of mission goes throughout. And that's the way in which Christians focused on mission for networks and organizations that precisely demonstrate this connectivity that we've been talking about. And I guess just to choose one more, even though it's very difficult to choose. I think Sebastian's Kim's work about the Korean church was also interesting.
Again, he compares Mingjung theologians and more conservative Christian contributions to the public square in Korea. And I think what he challenges to do is not just to work with our assumptions that sort of liberal political Christianity is the only Christianity that is revolutionary or reforming. But to see that in certain circumstances in certain situations, conservative Christianity can also have that reforming edge and that critical edge into a public sphere. And to perhaps understand how those two projects which have often been seen as really quite distinct and opposite in some ways might be a little more complicated when we look at them closely.
So just three, because it's a good number to get us going. Thank you, Dr. Albert, for sharing that. Dr.
Chow, would you like to say a few words as well? Yes, I think I would agree with Emma that this volume had so many great papers, great essays within it and it's really hard to choose which ones were most enlightening because they were in many ways, quite a phenomenal set of essays that I really enjoyed reading. I mean, in particular, you can see this in some of the earlier chapters within the volume, such as David Thompson and Mark Knoll's chapters, which in many ways, if you read those two chapters alone, they're real tour de forces. They're like these, I mean, they really asked themselves what does ecumenism and in a dependency in ecumenism and in dependency, what do they have to do with each other.
And they really both try to demonstrate how they come into fruition, but also challenge those themes. And I think David Thompson also draws out a little bit more of sort of the Catholic dynamics, which are a little bit different from, or much different from Protestant dynamics. And perhaps one of my misgivings about the volume and maybe we'll see this in the reviews of the book is that there's not enough of Catholic contributions looking at Catholic Christianity or orthodoxy and trying to ask questions of how ecumenism and independency differ in those contexts. And if these are actually even the right vocabulary for those contexts.
But I think also it within the volume, I'd like to highlight two of the essays. One, and both of them are actually by former PhD students of Brian's and our early career scholars in many ways. One was by Andrew Kaiser and he was looking at a case study of missionary pragmatics, really, how do missionaries work together on the mission field when they when there's some practical needs on the audience. And I think this is actually a really important chapter in that, you know, oftentimes we think about ecumenism as a theological category or as a various ecumenical movements like the WCC or, you know, maybe in Evangelical circles, LaSanne, or, you know, there are various huge institutional type of matters.
But in reality, a lot of the ecumenical impulse is one that comes out of pragmatics, a need to work together. And I think that that's one of the nicings that Andrew Kaiser's chapter demonstrates that the, that the need, the pragmatic matter pushes Christians to think through theologically. What does church unity mean now? I think the other chapter which I really appreciate and I wanted to highlight is Marina Wang's chapter which you've already mentioned.
And Marina, you know, in her PhD under Brian Stanley was focused largely on Changjin and the development of services, independence within the Chinese context. But I think what in some ways you can see Marina's work as an extension of Brian's work that for Brian, much of his work, if I could say historically about Brian's work, has focused on the missionary enterprise, and how missionaries have debated questions around ecumenism and independence, although he does highlight, you know, indigenous actors as well. But for Marina, her essay takes her PhD a step farther and looks at not only Changjin but also Azaria in India. And she looks at these two indigenous actors who are engaging in similar debates, but are asking actually different questions than the missionary actors that they are encountering.
And so I think it's that essay by itself both extends Brian's work, but also shows how these indigenous actors are shaping the scope of Christianity as it's developing in these contexts, but also impacting other thinkers in the process. So I think, you know, in particular, that's a really great chapter to read if you have a chance to. Yeah, well, thank you so much to the both of you for that wonderful answer. I think it really helps us to put into perspective the great contributions, some of which you have highlighted, but which are all again equally important in their own right and have really spoke volumes on regards to not only Brian, Brian's down these work, but also in regards to world Christianity.
Again, I am very grateful to the book of you for your time today in the midst of your busy schedules. I know we're still in the middle of the semester, but thank you once again for taking the time to talk about your book. Just as a way of wrapping things up, there is a final question that I would like to ask my guests, and that is, do you mind sharing with us about your current and future projects and what you hope to work on. So, Dr.
Chao, would you like to begin? Yes, well, in a lot of perhaps some of my answers to your questions from from the beginning of the podcast, and especially in relation to the impact of Brian's family on my own thinking. I'm working at the moment on a single volume systematic theology that draws on the insights from Christians around the globe. So it's trying to push against the theological enterprise, if you will, and to suggest possibilities to think through the implications of world Christianity and Christianity, theologically on the world church, if you will.
So I anticipate in that volume to offer a more systematic argument around my claim that world Christianity is normative Christianity. Thank you. Dr. Adwud, would you like to share what you're also currently working on and hope to work on in the future?
Yeah, thank you. So my project to my colleague Kim Wollire is almost at an end, but coming out in December, all being well, is a source book. So I with George Mappanga have translated Kim Wollire's writings and writers about him from Uganda into English. And I think it's very important for us in world Christianity to have primary sources, even if they're in translation, that show how people are writing and thinking and so forth.
And that will be available and as a kind of teaching tool, very shortly, and I'm hoping to work with the dictionary of African Christian biography on a short film that says something about Kim Wollire. But I do have a new project which is much more contemporary and that's looking at the impact of COVID-19 on faith communities, particularly the Democratic Republic of Congo, that's our case study, and trying to bring to attention the way in which faith leaders can offer support. In the face of sudden health crises, Congo is a good example of a country that has lots of experience of dealing with health crises and outbreaks of disease and has some insight off the rest of the world, but also with researchers there thinking about how public health might be improved by engaging in a more direct and immediate way communities, many of whom are actually supporting the hospitals and clinics around the area. So two actually quite distinct projects.
I think they both fit under the umbrella of world Christianity. Thank you. Dr. Charles Dr.
Alwood, those sound like very important and great projects and I look forward to reading more of your works as well. And once again, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you. Thank you.
And thank you so much everyone for listening to today's episode in which we explored ecumenism and independence in world Christianity historical studies in honor of Brian Stanley co-edited by Alexander Chow and Emma Wildwood and published by Brill in 2020. This is your host, Bian Ho Choi and stay tuned for the next episode on the new books on world Christianity.