You're listening to the Wisps wasatch in wasatch investigative studies wasatch investigative studies a paranormal science show Which apparently is yet another acronym for a super natural hour of what are you doing this to me man? Welcome welcome welcome to a new and exciting episode of the Whits show. I am your host Castle as always and tonight We've got some special guests, but before we get to our special guest I should probably take a minute introducing people so to my right we have Tim aka beaker what's happening to my left? We have the end hello and back and silent on hi Wait what he speaks he says hi.
I just that's a sound check gone to say hi a bunch of times I dialed in keep saying hi Don hi hi hi hi Tonight we got some special guests with us. We have got Paul Welch's back my popular demand. Yes, they're crazy That's where to come back and we've got Zack waters. Hello.
Thank you for having me And we're gonna talk to them a little bit about some hunts they've been on recently and we are going to talk about a contest That we are currently working on in fact, you know, should we leave with that him sure we can leave with the contest Let's talk about the contest. Well, I'm so excited about a contest to see who can submit the best contest Yes, we don't have any ideas for contests. We want you to submit ideas for contest The winner gets the participants So actually we have a couple investigations coming up and we would like to do a contest and I think we'll pick We're gonna have we'd like to have everyone right in there the best Scary funny whatever kind of ghost story that you want, but we're gonna pick the best ghost story We'll have it read on the air and we also have our friend Paul here published it in his paranormal recipe magazine Yeah, and the story can be fact it can be fiction We do ask that you limit it to what do you say Paul five pages is that too much? I would say about three pages three pages So so we would prefer to see something with a little bit of meat to it But nothing so meaty that it's gonna take up like 500 pages in the magazine So yeah, keep it about three pages so and then on top of having a story read and published We will also bring you on either our investigation to the fear factory For you and a guest or our barbecue Investigation that we're gonna be doing at the Benson Chris Mill We'll let you choose which one you want to attend speaking of barbecues of Benson Griss Mill against my better judgment Because it was cold and rainy and it was not cold or rainy.
It was cold. It was cold. It was cool It was cold today before but uh and so I was literally whether we should do it or not But we actually did have a barbecue last night at Benson Griss Mill Castle needed the rest of the lead team help them find his balls So he showed us an investigation. Hey, it was cold tonight before I was freezing and it was rainy But anyway, we ended up having a barbecue at Benson Griss Mill and had an investigation last night It was a lot of fun We actually invited some guests some various and sundry goblins mostly out what we invited cayla because we have an presentation still But we figured the barbecue would an investigation with tidy mower for three or four months Oh, yeah, you can see how concerned I am about it.
Yeah, so we will still do your presentation cable But it was a good time we had what to say 18 20 people. Yeah, but that I mean wasn't a huge crowd It was probably doing over Watching Paul. This is a meeting so I think he's begging around. I'm like my is going on with our Paul is that I think I'm gonna be ready.
I think I'm gonna say I'm gonna say it's a help there. Perhaps it's the user Paul It's like a little scotage hold on look over his ex for visual There's a thing called gravity eventually pulls down on so that and it probably in your lap The filters are hard. Yeah, Paul's having a wrestling match with this pop filter in the pop filter is winning But yeah, the investigation is actually pretty interesting. I actually had I invited some of the radiation therapist from Huntsman They also told me they couldn't give you your balls back.
Well, they didn't take it I was the doctor, but my balls were fine people don't worry about don't worry about Castle balls Castle ball are just fine. It's the first five minutes of the show talking about castles balls. Here. I'll show you Tim Hold on one being new.
Yes, I want to this thing on Over here, so before we jump into the investigation stuff like we kind of went over the contest But there's one other thing I wanted to kind of go over real quick I recently started going through some of our reviews on iTunes and some of the other Actually, no, we're like at five stars. They're one review. There's two. There's two on there's two on iTunes I'm not sure there's more reviews than that I just I was all there saw in iTunes was the two and the biggest complaint people had was that we're not weekly or that our shows aren't coming out consistently So for everyone listening I just wanted to put it out there that we did have a meeting after our last recording and we sat down and planned it out For the rest of the year to where we are able to release an episode we will be every other Wednesday So when you hear this just plan on every other Wednesday, that's when we launch the Wednesday's is when they come out We record on Sundays, but we release them on Wednesday through the magic podcast An actuality you don't have to listen to it through the magic of podcasting this particular episode won't come out until next Wednesday So that's what we'll still when you guys get up, but you won't know it's it would be you know now But you know after you but we're gonna do our best to commit to that schedule So you guys will have a new episode every other Wednesday.
Yeah, just keep in mind with the issues that we've had as We've kind of hammered out most of those there's been some personal issues that some of the members of the team have had I'm sorry retarded him slightly retarded It's not but I say a lot and I probably shouldn't it's a disability But we've had holidays like Easter has a cropped up So that's kind of part of our consistency issue is just Sunday nights as everybody knows can be kind of hectic But we've got a schedule hammered out. So let's talk a little bit about the investigation last night and then we'll get to our guests Okay, Dan I was concerned that it might be cold and so I just to be extra warm, but it wasn't cold I mean, I was glad I had my jacket, but it was unzipped just so you know I think the amount of people that we had I think the amount of people was just right because everyone got to it was perfect We probably could have handled five or six more But it was it was there's a few enough people you could pretty much investigate not for about running into large groups Well on that that venue is so huge there's so many cabins and different buildings you're going and there's building right next to each other You could be in there investigating and not hear the people next to you in the other buildings right with us Wooden walls, which don't be bad. I'd go bust it into a cabin and there'd be people in there doing an EVP session like Oh, sorry, you don't even know they're there because like until you got to the door I mean you can't hear them well, and then the three your three radiation folk they were fun They came with me. They really wanted to see that ping pong ball move.
Yeah, they followed me around it two or three different Areas were trying to get it to move and shout out to the Hensma radiation therapist Yeah, they came and we're actually gonna take them to fear factory with us Which is what the investigations that will bring a contest winner to? Yeah, it was a good investigation. What did you guys get as far as evidence goes? I know Tim had some information that's kind of confirmed to him You want to talk about that or do you want to save that well?
It kind of ties in with the alone in the mill investigation that we've done that we have talked about yet We'll say that for our guest Paul. How about you? Yeah, what'd you get evidence? Why anything else tonight?
I have yet had anything move my ping pong ball And so I was really trying to get something to move it without maybe the type three that has moved into the quilt room might and it wouldn't And so then we went into the cabin that first cabin that's just there by the barn There's a little girl that's in there and Brandy confirmed that she was in there again today or yesterday. So we've been in there and She has a name. I don't remember what it was We were calling her Mary this week a caller name and she tried she tried really really hard to move it But she just couldn't do it and we got this you know three yes, no questions to the cake to meter I spent a lot of the time just going around and taking pictures for our photo thing for our boost So I got a really awesome picture of an orb that I say this morning I actually confirmed by Brandy before I sent it to you that it's legit It was actual spirit energy and not just like a bug or anything now was that a picture taken last night? Yeah Because I like you I did show you the picture.
Why do I sound weird all of a sudden hello there we go So I did I did send you the picture. I showed you the picture of Caden and Heather standing there looking all like That pictures. Yeah, it looks like they're possessed But I promise you they're not they're both the hell there was trying her best not to move in my picture and just the way the the flash at cadence Eyes they both look possessed both like glowing. I did have interesting experience in the quilt in the last night I was in there I was in there Caleb Kirby and Michelle Burns and I think Alec was with me actually no alakos not with me it was Caleb Michelle and Matt Cronkite and his friend Vicki I can or her last name is We were in the quilt room and when we're in there I was asking questions and I put away everything I had with me was flashlights flashlights and my recorder and I was trying to get something to turn the flashlight on You know I was asking questions at one point actually heard an audible it was either a yes or hello It was really faint But I can hear it and I kind of looked at everybody in the room like it was that you wasn't me Michelle was that you wasn't me anyway After going on the room nobody made the sound of it was definitely someone saying something Another people here everybody heard everybody heard it and that's is what I was really kind of stopping goes at you Nope was it you nope and nobody said anything so was somebody in the quilt room that we actually audibly heard was it I don't know I kind of suspect it might have been because Mary Lynn used to hate me lots But we've come to terms you guys have been defensive Well she pinged my old last time I was there now She's good Yeah, it's either her or the type three that you're talking about that same building but we definitely heard something in there Other than that we've had quite a few residential but nothing I think I know our friend David In the schoolhouse last night even at Sunward investigating they got that UVP as well that they played for us Oh, that's right I couldn't quite make out what it said But there was definitely a woman's voice and the only women that were there with us at the time was peaches was with me in the pavilion And Alec and her friend were with Castle in the cabins which are nowhere near the schoolhouse And I didn't go anywhere near the schoolhouse.
This is after you left There was that was literally that was that was like the end of the night where there was like went for left There's a mean me Tim brandy Alica her friend Kira and David and his son. Yeah, and so that was it It was definitely a woman's voice that came across on the audio when he was reading the those weird-ass books that they had It's like Sally is sick only God can save Sally. You can't save Sally. Okay.
We might get sick too. These are the schoolhouse. Yeah Yeah, I haven't either but that's what Caleb was telling us and and yeah David went in there and he started reading the book And that's when he got the EVP But I was saying stuff like you know only God can save Sally. We might all get sick too And only God can save us and it was a psychomy got our little fever That's a weird book to get you kids, but I guess you know those you know 150 years ago, so yeah I said right about what you know, maybe like I can't say that back then so let's talk a little bit about the alone series that you've been doing and the alone series Well, let me have you tell us about Paul So the idea behind the alone series is basically putting a vent together for five or six people And allow one investigator during their shift to be alone in a building and actually investigate by themselves So the first one we did was the alone in the mill and I think there was five of us So one person always got to be in the mill by themselves for 40 minutes while we split the other four up into two groups of two Kind of swapping out who we're with and what building out of the 11 we got to investigate And I think it went pretty awesome.
Oh, I think I'm amazing last minute. I was one of the five I know Kim was one of the five actually there's well had a great time for the five of us are sitting in the State room. I think Danielle's I wasn't here I wasn't there and Danielle's with a different team out there. We were talked about Danielle before really she was on the Paranormal festival episode.
That's right. She was Yeah, when Paul's talking about being alone in the mill He's talking the big mill for those who've been to Benson Griss my know a lot of our listeners have been there the big Three-story mail and how long did you have people alone in there for Paul? 40 minutes? So you got 40 minutes to be in there alone and all what four floors?
Uh-huh, yeah, four floors and it's interesting because I think you guys may be peace when I was in there, didn't you? So what we got and this is kind of interesting because when you guys investigated the main floor where my voice recorder was while you were there I got nothing and this happened between everybody that went into the building So when you're there nothing until you went upstairs and then we started catching all these noises from the main floor But only when you're on the third floor and you could we could hear you on the third floor on the audio But all these bangs and knocks near the microphone were happening on the main floor And then that repeat you again when Tim went with Zach and they went up to the third floor the same noises came back But it never happened when anybody was investigating the main floor. Oh interesting So basically your audio recorder's catching on the bangs and knocks only when there's nobody near it, right? I'm fascinating So it's funny that you say it's the third floor because I was the third time that I've investigated the mill before and every time I have been there I have only felt energy in the main mill and it's being either on the third the top floor or in the basement the middle two floors I don't really pick up on anything or captured evidence But the third floor in the top remains him where we captured our EDPs where he had three other psychics confirm what we picked up on what we felt I think that's the hotspot of the whole location in my opinion And I think Tim's got a little bit of a story about what he kind of figured out there Yeah, so I mean it started off with I you know It was my time to go in the middle alone And I was halfway there and I just got this gut feeling something was telling me that I needed to take Zach with me So I went back to the pavilion grabbed him we went up to the mill and that's when he told me of basically all he told me was that He had a different psychic medium tell him that there was Two guys and a girl and one of them was pushed out the top four That's pretty much the only information he gave me so we went to the top four seen if we could talk to the spirits I mean through our investigation using the Gels meter pro another K2 meters or not I was actually able to get that to the spirits related their brother and sister and the third spirit was actually A friend of the brother and sister now all the information that I got was verified by three different psychic or three different mediums last night I'm the only information I got that was incorrect was the act between the brother and sister was consensual that that actually was not correct That was he was forcing himself on a sister basically if I can interject you really quick you yeah so I mean everything I got was it was basically that the brother and sister were having a relationship that's not normal and You game with your own stuff basically but this the from what I found out that it actually was not consensual It was a brother was forcing himself on a sister the sisters boyfriend actually found out and caught him in the act and pushed him out of the third Story of the mill and what I thought was interesting is when we were doing the alone in the dark Gary Myself and Zach were actually in the fire pit and Gary and I saw this giant orb on top of the mill huge huge It was like the size of a person it was it was huge So it started like at the top of the mill and kind of came down and we're weighing that shot out the other direction We just told our psychics there are mediums that we saw the orb We didn't really give him any more detail other than we saw him or that was huge and the first one Caden it was the first one told about it.
He's like yeah, that was the the brother was basically reenacting his death When I told the group about the information I got last night I could feel the spirit was piss off at me for telling what I found out afterwards is that When the spirit was giving me all this information He was giving it to me in confidence which I did not know at the time and I don't know why this is but for some reason He had no idea Zach was standing right next to me the entire time He was telling the the mediums last night that he's like no you were alone I was telling you and you weren't supposed to tell anybody we started digging a little bit deeper and this is where my beard actually comes in handy Made of these are spirits that died in the 1800s the spirit thought I was a prophet and he was basically confessing his sins Well, you're supposed to be alone that was what I was supposed to be alone so I had no idea that that's what his intention was but it was pretty interesting to see the medium for it because at one point We actually had B peaches and Caden. This was last night when we were doing our investigation All upon that third floor and we started talking to the spirit and we found that the the girlfriend had actually followed B down to family tree at one point and Was basically hiding out there because she wanted nothing to do with the mill and it was really fascinating to watch the mediums work As they remotely crossed over the girlfriend from the family tree as well as the sister wives that followed be down there I'm not sure if we ever talked about them or not But there's some there's some spirits that followed be from Benson Grismel down to family Yeah, be mentioned there's five spirits that followed her from family or Benson Gris the family trees You call them the sister wives yes, and one actually entered into family tree and other for just hang out outside So if they went inside it'd be trapped so the one that actually went inside was the the girl that was abused by her brother and Watching all three of them kind of use their energy and peaches was actually able to remotely cross over All five of them and then shortly after while we were at the mill we crossed over the boyfriend and That kind of put a an end to that whole stuff So I don't know if it's gonna reduce the activity in the mill That's too less to go to him well I thought my job as an investigator if a spirit tells me that they're ready to cross over and they further time on earth is done It's our job to do what they ask no, I agree I think there's I have a real ethical issue with venues who well let me back up I have an ethical issue with people who go into a venue with the intention of crossing everything however on the same token I have an ethical issue of venues that say do not cross our spirit I think if a spirit comes and says please cross me I think if you can do it you have a moral obligation to do it First of all, I know someone's profiting off your being here So you're not cross yeah We don't go in with the intention of crossing anybody over the only time we do cross the spirit on a public menu is one The spirit directly tells us hey, I want cross. I mean we don't we don't put it out there We don't go to every single building at a venue and go hey does the spirit want cross? Hey you guys want cross it's through our investigation that the spirits basically tell the mediums Yeah, I'm ready to go and that's when we cross them over in those situations I'm just curious do you ask permission from the property owner before passing over any spirits that might be there personally no Just because I mean like let's let's say that and at the same time Do you think that would have like if the property owner found out you did it without their permission with that cause a conflict You may be going back to the location I think so and I my personal thing on it is it's a personal issue between that spirit and the whoever's crossing them and Again my biggest concern is there's some property owners who and it sounds really cold but the profit here off of a spirit being stuck I mean if the spirit is stuck willingly and wants to be there great If the spirit wants to cross again I think it's almost a moral obligation across it if you're able and it asks you to and I think that by hey property owner Here's what we're doing.
I think you really create atmospheric really create some conflict It's an ugly. Yes, the paranormal world if you think about it is a very or can be very intertwined in religion I know there's some people that are religious at all or don't think it coincides, but it really does for a lot of people and so I think there's a percentage of the people that might be over a haunted venue and sometimes that they forget that that spirit Used to be a physical living person and by keeping them there I mean in my opinion you're almost enslaving them if they want to go let them go well And another way to look at it is you know spirits used to be people as well I mean if you want to leave a venue nothing's stopping you from leaving right so all we're doing is helping him get to a Different location that they normally can't get to on their own if a spirit's out of venue and they just decide They don't want to be at that a venue anymore. There's nothing stopping from leaving So like Benson Grissmull for example, if there's a spirit at the mill and they just decide that they don't want to be at the mill anymore They can follow somebody home or they can you know wander into a house That's near the mill or they can just they can leave there's nothing keeping them there other than themselves I've had a spirit home from the store once and she hung out in my house for a few months and then one day She was gone and you're part of me that summer Well part of it kind of flip side of that going to though is I think if you're going into a venue with the intention of Frentic Press everything I think that's equally As problematic as not crossing something that has to be crossed I think for instance if you were to go into say and I hope Cammy or Kim doesn't hear this because I'm like never I'm supposed to get again. If you're like hey, we're gonna go to a 749 cross all there goes I think that's a total completely inappropriate mindset to go in and do that you know At the same time though if and I'm gonna use a 749 as an example If the others get pissed because the spirits just crossed me and you cross them I think that's a moral and ethical issue in and of itself.
Yeah So basically we don't go in and start asking the spirits if they want to get crossed It's if the spirit brings it up. We will cross them That's if they ask us for help then we offer to them But we never go to a venue with the intention of crossing spirits We're there just to talk to them and see why they're there that would be a commercial venues Yeah, when we go into a home or we go into the area where there's been an issue going on residential investigation They're completely different we went into a building not too long ago And the building was actually going to be demolished at that point. We're like okay Hey guys, you know parties over you know You know this building is gonna go away. Do you want to cross you or not?
We ended up crossing you weren't there? I was trying to figure out what you're talking about like 100 That was in one building is the old jail. Yeah, yeah But it was but that's one that you know again the building was gonna be torn down and they were gonna have to go somewhere So I think we were the first and only team to investigate that building as well. So okay parts of that have been around for 100 years Building itself was 16 years old but the jail and some of them are so way back Hey, Don, you gotta talk with him like if you're interested microphone because it like 15 feet away nobody can hear you He's saying that don't know That is that is another station bring up though.
That's on a commercial or a public type investigation I think when you're going into residence because they're having issues That's a different ball game because at that point we'll try and cross what we can get cross and we will you know remove what we can't cross But obviously the easiest way if it's a human spirit is to convince it that it's time to take the next big leap. Yeah So yeah, I mean like I said we don't we don't go into a venue with the intention of We're moving all the spirits because honestly like what's the fun for all of them? I mean I know it's Investing in it can be fun But if I go in a completely clear venue out of other spirits one I'm kind of if some of those venues do rely on that for their livelihood So basically I don't want to bankrupt anybody You know at the same time like if I go through and clear something out at a venue I mean that I kind of ruin that for everybody from having experiences there being able to enjoy that venue So it seems like it's extreme cases where it's like really negative and it has to go or someone's it's like calling out to you Help me. Yeah, so the only situation where you really try to get it.
Yes Well say any of the public radio if it's not really negative unless the venue order specifically requests that we get rid of something negative We're not gonna mess with it as well. It is and it's not our prerogative to decide it needs to go Um, so I don't know how we got off on all that but it just happens I know some of these these spirits they like to toys and say like is coming around So back to the alone in the mill investigation I don't know if you guys heard heard like the last responses I had on the video But Tim and Zach were up up in the upper floor of the mill and they were getting ready to leave So they're announcing that their their time was up It's time to leave and one of the coolest responses to me the whole night on the acrobatics was a female that came through and said Who's next and then it said my name? As if she knew like she was smart enough to know what we were doing we were taking turns So she's like who's next that's really cool. Who you bringing it next intelligent.
Yeah It was intelligent because it's like and I didn't hear it at first They know how to kind of point it out But she's like it says who's next and I sure enough and then it says my name is because I was the only one that had been in the building Yeah, technically you investigate. That's really cool that they were actually interacting with us in that way Well, you were the one getting on the walkie calling the shots Hey, it's time to move so there'd be maybe ask me hey Paul who's next you know who's next well and it's interesting because it's a I'm glad you came up with the concept actually Paul what did make you come up with the concept about alone in the blank Um, just providing a unique atmosphere for our parental investigations You know there's diehards like us that like to go out and collect evidence But when we go to these public investigations that have 30 or 40 people It's like almost a waste of our time to even turn on our recorders It's a real tough not to get a ton of time and set up these events where there's five of us five experienced people or maybe six depending on the location Going at this location just to have the atmosphere having the perfect situation to collect evidence and communicate I thought that was kind of important You know I figured people might pay a little more to have that small group and we all got turns like investigating with each other Which I thought awesome. Yeah, as you say it was phenomenal being able to just invest the other two people at a time and I have massive groups Now you said something Paul I kind of want to touch on go back to And I already know the answer but this is more for listeners than anything You said people would pay a little bit more who profits from these investigations or why is it that they would pay more for this or Can you go into that a little bit when I do these alone and alone in whatever you know It could be alone in the middle to be alone in a bank But when I do these I basically take the cost of the venue that they're charging me and I'm splitting it between the people That are buying the ticket so they're paying at cost Nobody well, I don't make any money, you know They're in your course pockets money to to rent the place out to us But I'm not making a dollar But I to me I feel it's important to give them an honest price to go in because the research part is important to me So you're doing it just a cost and so you that cost which kind of puts me on the hook to make sure I saw all the tickets or else I had to come out of pocket, you know But I'm providing this this great chance for them to go in and get this alone time and maybe capture some really unique experiences Because it happens sometimes when you're wrong, you know, you're screwed now Let me ask you because I know we did a lot of the mill with you. We had a member of our team double schedule one of our investigations I don't know how to use a calendar.
I was an M&A. It's Tim Using the Chinese calendar. Yeah, I was wrong. Yeah, I was looking at 1982 Last night was the second one so last night was in Eureka we had three buildings The Gatlin building the company store and top of spart So that's one building and then the McCormick bank and they got I think we did 35 minutes segments So they got 35 minutes in the bank alone and they really enjoyed that I haven't gone through any of that stuff.
Yes, we thought last night and get home so three in the morning But we did have an investigator that got a rock thrown at him in the in the bar Speaking of the top of our we should probably go into the name behind that because I was I was grossly misled I know we talked about on the life on the list episode Yeah, for those who didn't catch that particular episode. It was not a strip bar. It's actually a bar without a roof It was literally a topless bar. Oh Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't built that way the roof collapsed meaning many years ago and they just kind of converted into what it was Yeah, I just remember that much well, where's this old day old my strip club so we go investigate that and I'm air and air is looking Like I'm insane and then I found out that there was just a part that had no roof That's pretty much just called a patio then it's misleading to call the top of the right right thing So you've seen the patio.
Yeah, let's go investigate that patio bar. It has this really cool tunnel which most people are afraid of Building I need to go there. I know that's where we'll go Is it link up to anything else? I have gone to the end of it I don't think anyone's been to the well stampede down there.
Maybe that means so did anybody have any unique experiences last night? Oh, I'm the rock. I can't recall Anybody telling me like what happened during their investigation? I was running my recorder in the bank the whole time so it's kind of hoping that I catch stuff But they all enjoyed themselves we had there was a couple that was there that was not experienced So I kind of took them under my wing and I stuck with them most tonight kind of teaching them what the gear does and how I use it So I thought that was pretty cool now someone is interested in signing up for one of these events What would you recommend as far as experience level?
Where would they find the events? There's two places you could find the events I post a lot of events to the Utah Pernum events group Facebook page which they become members of and Often I build the event on that page. So everybody that's a member automatically gets an invite and the other one would be on my Pernum overacity magazine Facebook page under events where I have hundreds of events listed there so they can find it either way either way So you would want to then join the Utah Pernum Ovence Facebook page or the Pernum overacity magazine Facebook page Which you have if you haven't already you need to because Paul's magazine is great To sign for those now, what would you recommend as far as experience level goes? Would you?
Recommendees for somebody who's never been would you say a more experienced investigator? I would say it's for anyone who's comfortable being alone and knowing what's going on around them at the time because it's dangerous I mean it's dangerous for us So they should know like what they're feeling and and win the boat like when to get out a dodge Because they do have the walkie, you know, they can call us at any time We know like that distinct feeling like I have to go time to go time to go You know like I said earlier with where I felt like I needed to have Zach in the mill with me Like I said that gut feeling that that's what needed to happen I posted this the other day like I think I was one of the family tree on Saturday like I Strongly was my body was telling me not to go, but I went anyway like everything was saying do not go I feel like every time I go to the food there's awesome It's phenomenal I'm glad you brought that because it Paul does send everybody in with a walkie-talkie So you aren't completely cut off from everybody I mean if you have an issue you can get on there and ask for help or be told to get out and in all honesty And we've talked about it with our safety stuff on here I normally don't recommend anybody investigate alone But Paul chooses good locations to do this ad that are not as dangerous as some of the other locations Well, I wouldn't call that alone alone. It's alone with safety lines With the safety line, yeah, because generally I wouldn't recommend anybody investigate alone But under these kind of controlled circumstances, you're a lot safer than you would be otherwise And you'd have the option of taking somebody else in there with you. It's not like I'm forcing you to be alone I mean, it's your time positive to tell You can do it alone or you can take somebody else in there with you or cameraman anybody But it's basically to give you that one on one time to see what you can catch And essentially he said, Keramax, that's kind of what Zach does Zach is a paranormal camera guy To an extent, but yes I feel kind of asked, I know that we really introduced you very well Tell us a bit more about yourself, Zach, I know what...
I do like to do a lot of camera work, yes I am an independent investigator on a belong to a team I like to kind of just float around and investigate with everyone Learn from different people Just have an open mind But you haven't been doing this for about 10 years now Came into it, it's very skeptical, I watched the shows Bro, something goes through my body bro I'm like, this is bullshit, I can't believe this But you're not, did you hear that? But then I go to some of these locations and bro, something goes through your body And it's a trip and it's real, so But yeah, I just like to travel around, investigate as many people as I can Paul's alone series, I like, because I like more of a smaller group I'm not a big fan of the meetups where there's 30-40 people everywhere I understand why they're done at times, but To get great investigations, great evidence, if you really want to talk to spirits I think a less people on a location is a better way to go I say big public men are usually fun for a taste of Yeah, kind of almost like a tour like hey in your feet And to meet just people in the field that have similar interests as you And talk and have great discussions Well, and they're also a great event, like Paul just said, how do I use this equipment? Oh, here's somebody who's leading the group who knows how to use this equipment Oh, that's how that works, maybe I should get one of those But yeah, in the same way, I actually, and it's kind of funny, I was I shouldn't say as complaining, something like complaining about it last night But I said, you know, the one thing I like about smaller groups Is I get to investigate, it seems like whenever I get into a larger group I end up You're teaching more, yeah I end up with five or six people and I'm telling stories about past investigations And I'm teaching and I don't really get to focus on investigating as much as I do Teaching and leading and showing I don't know if you've experienced that, Tim, I think you've experienced that as well Probably more so than most of us, I forget you do that on all the other versus you, Tim Remember asylum 49? Yes, where we ended up being trainers We ended up training the staff Yes, the problem is if you give Castle too much time, he uses the spirits to ask one simple question If he looks better than the other investment...
Yeah, he was doing that last night Oh yeah, my more attractive than Tim, I'm like, why? Well, do you know my heart or not? Tell me yes and no, he's the device, tell me I said it as him, why do you need validation from dead people? He kept asking until he got validation, that he looked better than I did for sure I got to say, yes, you're more attractive, can we move on?
Well, the problem was the last night that kept saying Tim was better looking at it, it kind of hurt my feelings They were, I was paying attention Yeah, they kept saying I said... Maybe it's the beard again It's the beard Like, am I better looking at Tim? No Or are you sure? Yes Well, I mean you were asking a dude so...
That's true I may have been asking to do that, I can't remember I need to go ask Mary Ellen I don't know, there's a type three in there, either They are So there's a couple of other locations I have in mind for this alone series, Camp Floyd being one of them Oh, Camp Floyd would be entertaining someone in the stagecoach and by themselves That'd be fun Fort Douglas would be another one, having someone in the museum by themselves But it would have to be, whatever location they do, it would have to have a building where someone could be alone Separated Well, Fort Douglas, you've got a couple options because you've got the new building in the old building And so you could potentially have everybody in one building and have the alone building be in another building There's also the firehouse, I don't know if you ever investigated the firehouse I have, I haven't had the best experiences in the firehouse, it always seemed kind of quiet compared to the rest of the venue And it was really cleverly last time I was there too, you're gonna have to climb over everything around But I don't think that's a normal part of the museum that's really open to the general public It's only open for investigators from most part If you ask, if you ask, which is why it's kind of cluttering What other, English is hard, what other spots do you have at Paul? Those two are the only ones I've thought of so far And those are far out in the future, I don't know when exactly I'm gonna book those But would you be willing to do one of these alone series of maybe just two or three Very experienced investigators in a more darker location where do you find dark relocation? Perhaps with your family tree, I would say, yeah And the Zion building? Well, with family tree, you're all in the same building, so But put someone in that basement, close that door, put them down there by themselves Yeah, have everyone on the main side of the building and one person on the other side of the basement by themselves Closing the door by them?
Because of Fort Douglas, you don't get the scratches, you don't get the nightmares when you go home, like a family tree location gets you True, yeah So, just to step it up and watch, would you take maybe just two or three really experienced investigators and try the alone in the darker location? If they were willing to pay their way in, yeah You know, Paul, I may have another venue for you, we'll talk after the show It's a darker location Um, Zion building? Yeah, one in town? Yeah, one in town?
That's a darker location And have you been to that one? I've been there I'm going to fix that, you're coming with us I set these up not for me, I don't really say it well for me to investigate I'm more just there to run the event, but we had someone about last time when you guys were with me and I'm like, oh, I get to investigate with Castle and Tim and it's on Yeah, so I participated for sure, it was fun So, I don't know if this was you or if it was somebody else, but it wasn't there also someone doing like an investigation somewhere where they were actually They wanted inexperienced investigators and they're gonna basically teach them how to do an investigation That's me, that's you, okay, you want to talk a little bit about that or? Yes, it's basically a paranormal 101 class plus investigation at the mill So what it's going to consist of is me teaching a paranormal class like classroom type environment for an hour going over the equipment Why we use it what it does So they have a basic understanding and then I would have trainers and different buildings or few trainers So where they would basically go from building the building and have the trainer Like demonstrate how these things are used like they would have certain pieces of equipment that they're going to demonstrate But then just force the other people to kind of take what they've just got shown And actually do a little session on their own So they're actually getting a little bit from each different instructor like a one-on-one training Which is a fantastic idea by the way And for those who don't know Paul, I mean Paul doesn't own and run a paranormal frosty magazine He was kind of the leading force behind you last year's Utah Paranormal Festival So Paul was very big about educating and researching Now let me ask you Paul, in your paranormal 101 what would be if someone was to sign up for that class I assume they'd find out the same places as those they would find your own series The same place yeah And as far as cost goes what would you charge for something like that? $10 That's in the same Paul Right so you know the instructors would be volunteers people who are really educated about the technical aspects And want to show like some of their techniques And they would volunteer to be a trainer in the building and have to give the classroom part So as long as the venues paid for that's all that matters Yeah, that's fantastic and so if anybody's actually interested in when you can open those up Paul It's already opened up Is it?
Yeah, what's the date? Oh gosh you'd have to ask I mean, I'll foxes something It's in May Yeah, look at the keep talking So basically this would be fantastic if you're looking to learn how to investigate Like and I know that people have been on public investigations and you kind of get an idea how on a public investigation But this would be almost like a one-on-one or well maybe not one-on-one But you know four or five people in a group with somebody learning specifically how to use specific pieces of equipment And then basically after the classroom period's over Being set loose to actually go out and try your skills on your own without somebody there over your shoulder running the show would be like hey John here's your k2 that we just spent 20 minutes teaching how to use Get after it have fun and go learn something right so it's gonna be May 12 And I haven't sold any tickets to yet. So hopefully well help some people here at na and to be honest with you I didn't know what's coming up that soon, but we will be happy if that one doesn't sell out to help you plug and fill Other ones because I think a paranormal one-on-one class is a fantastic idea That's a great place to have it too They got that big pavilion to have that your first class and they've got tons of buildings like we're saying for people to go and investigate How many slots are you selling for that Paul? Probably about 20 okay after the show I'll talk you because I know how we can set that thing on my four days But yeah to me when I'm out investigating especially on these public funds I get a lot of people asking me questions about the equipment I use personally And I'm even using some of the most complicated stuff so When I see investigators out there not even knowing that what a k2 does for example And they've been on a team for over a year and they have no clue what it does wait.
What's a k2 Those are skis aren't they the answer is the object that you'll kill Kirby But it's like for those who need to learn a little bit more that haven't gotten that information from their team or They're getting their feet wet and they want to learn from those very experienced trainers out in the field That'd be that'd be a good environment to do so well That's actually a good idea because I was gonna say I've been in groups where also the k2 goes off nervous gets outside It's always pernal activity and myself or timber somebody goes do just kind of text man Or a little like to go panel on the walls or walking down the hall Yeah, and so I'm seeing that too So I think it's a fantastic idea to teach people how to use equipment So they're not getting a bunch of false positives because if you don't know what you're doing It's really easy to get a lot of false positives. I think everybody who when they start other equipment sets off other equipment Was gonna say if you have a REM pot for instance a walkie-talkie makes a REM pot go right same as k2's. Yeah It'll spike at every time when I had to warn people yesterday about that because they'd be like oh, this was growing off I said while I was talking on the walkie-talkie, but yeah Yeah, we were in the design building and we were right by the bathroom where the two transients were found And I got all excited because my k2 paid clear out to the red and was stuck down I was so excited and I turned and I was standing right by the breaker box. It's like yeah, that's kind of the Referring to we train a couple investigators there and they did the same thing I'm like no, it's the panel on the wall But we all get fooled like Fort Douglas in the where the old museum was before they moved it that part where you go downstairs To that lower area you get k2 spikes like crazy right there, and I don't know what it is, but it's constant.
It's always there It's interesting because once you've used a k2 a lot you start to recognize what anomaly looks like versus what constant sources Whenever I see like a k2 light up to red and stay on red or go through for LEDs and stay through for LEDs That's when I start looking at my interference is coming from it's when it's Baradic when the LED bounces kind of back and forth but we did a residential not too long ago where The homeowner said that in the closet when they went in the closet They got this really creepy ominous feeling and so we had about four of us there and two of us were in the bathroom because we were getting some Intelligent responses through the ghost pro and then the other two went into the closet investing element They went in we know k2 and it you know, I'd clear up anyway a few minutes later They said oh, you know, this is where like a major Wi-Fi cable runs and you know, it's not spirit energy You're feeling actual electromagnetic energy from this cable so not to get off topic But we have Zack Waters here and he has a unique story about what happened to us in Nevada That I don't know if you guys want In the hotel. Yeah, that's also published in Paul's magazine check that episode out falling to Yeah, we definitely want to hear the story if he's got a great story. Let's hear it. Oh, yeah This was probably the best case of poltergeist activity that I've ever had um Have you guys ever been to Virginia City?
If not, I recommend it. It's not hard to do less It's it's the whole town. It doesn't matter what building you go on the second you pull into the town. You're like, okay All right, we're not alone here, but anyway, I'd like to will them Sure, you mean to will accountie.
Yeah Yeah, the silver queen hotel me and Paul stay there for a night Poltergeist activity like I saw Paul's coat seriously get picked up out of the closet lifted up And I'm sitting there standing this like holy shit and it gets dropped and starts swinging Hangers start swinging. You heard it too. It sounded like a handful of coins got thrown against the wall The activity of that building was crazy, but uh, I know it was hard for Paul to sleep at night because seriously like every 10 minutes I was hearing voices Something was like touching me something was whispering I felt energy and I'm just like every 10 minutes waking Paul up. I felt bad Very cool.
But the weird thing the weird thing about this night was we just came from the Macke Mansion investigating there where we lost the van keys for like an hour and we were searching for the van keys forever and finally We found them in this jacket pocket that I had way up here that I never use and we're all confused on how they got in there We go over to our hotel and go to the room that we rented and we couldn't get in the room the key would go in They would turn the door would not open we both tried it We sat there for like 15 minutes and he's like well This room next to us is wide open and there's nobody in there So we're like we're sleeping here at well lack of sleep Exactly we can that room and it was just so odd because we went through every level looking for our room because the rooms aren't in order It's like room one two three four it's like seven twelve nine and it's like holy shit So we finally got to the top floor and found our room and out of all the rooms just this one door was cracked halfway open Okay, that's weird and it was right next to the room we were supposed to stay in so I don't know I think it was like destiny we were meant to stay in that room So when we got up and get dressed I'm like oh we gotta film a recap what happened So we go back out to the hallway. He's got keys to the room the original room He's like i'm gonna show you how this door doesn't open he turns into just slides right open like what the hell wow Something he didn't want us. I mean they didn't want us leaving the mackie mansion because he doesn't recall putting the keys in my jacket at all I don't I have no recall doing I was the one to put him in his coat pocket. I guess but But it was a weird night.
It was in a pocket that it doesn't even look like a pocket because it's way up here Like it's the strangest spot for our pocket ever and I've owned that coat for like two years and I didn't know it was there I'm glad you guys found the van keys so you can make it back We broke into the van to see if the keys were in the van and they weren't there like we spent an hour freezing We got a coat hanger. I sat there with my fingers wedged holding this window open while some dude with a hanger Trying to get the lock open and what I keep telling you what we got to say we're gonna do something is messing with me because I was tired too Paul eventually was able to go to sleep and I'm like, I'm so tired But the second I felt myself those and off boom coat started moving I heard change getting thrown around I heard a voice in my ear like something wasn't messing with me. It's like Paul I can't sleep well turn off the light And I'm like that's not gonna fucking help. It's like all this shit's happening in this place is falling at all this crazy shit turn off the lights I'm like, that's not gonna be relaxing.
How can you sleep? I'm like I'm gonna cover over my head because I wear a mask when I'm sleeping I sleep out this I just made her completely cover my head because he left the light on the whole time Dude when shit's moving around and talking to you in your ears Like I got some tire I got some lights off just relax fuck that shit. No, I'm like shit's moving people are touching me I'm hearing things. I'm like, I'm not going to bed dude.
I'm like, oh, I was touching that was probably Paul I wasn't there The thing started because it got quiet for a while we finally settled there in Paul was asleep I was asleep and I'm just looking at my phone and the hotel got quiet and I kept seeing out the corner of my eye Paul's blanket on the bed sheet going like whoop I'm like kind of pulling up I'm like, okay, whatever I'm tired. I'm tired of anything bad. So look at my phone and again I see like holy shit, but all right, okay I'm just tired any good bit and that's when I saw the coat move and it was weird because all of a sudden I just focused on I stare at the cone while I was staring at it all of a sudden I see I'm like, holy shit. That's my start hitting Paul's gonna get up fucker.
Fuck it up That was the cheapest cos we ever paid for No, the silver queen if you go to Virginia City book a room in the silver queen hotel like guarantee you will have a Says ladies on the door, which is weird A laser pointer here here like it was a pattern followed And Virginia City is on our to-do list I recommend it Paul's been working on a investigation I suppose you don't know Virginia City as it's on the very west side of Nevada towards California Yeah, it's not my time as Nepal. Well, they struck goals and silver. They're the most ever found in America So it funded wars is a very rich town and now it's a tourist attraction or during the day You got five thousand some people in town and by clock at night you got 500 Wow You want to feel like you step into a time capsule and go back to the wild west go to Virginia City? It's awesome.
So how did you get turned on to Virginia City anyway Paul? My wife so my wife went to school there as a child. So it's your wife turn you on is that your thing? Yeah Like the first time we went out and saw family she has family that lives out there She's like I gotta take you here and that was back in 2000 and I've been going there at least once a year ever since It's been a place.
I just love to go and you'll see why when you go there That's saying there's the hotel that you guys investigate and Mackie mentions or anywhere else you guys investigate way rather The Union Brewery which was insane in itself Because they don't only let people in there which you'll see in our documentary the Paul is finally finishing up I say well I know that you do a lot of camera work who's that what do you usually do with your with your finished product? I generally just donate my cuz I tagged along with a lot of teams and I kind of just like you know I'm here to film for you I'm just an extra and I turn a lot of my footage over the teams I'm with to use at their disposal. Okay, so you at the same time we'll use it if I want to but so you don't publish any Oh, I know there's some groups that they specifically go on kind of make their own episodes of shows Well, I'm in the process now I'm actually thinking about starting my own team teaming up with a couple people just because I want to go quality as opposed to quantity with my investigations, right so Really quality investigations, but the same time I want to put them out there for people to see like maybe get a YouTube channel But I just want to try myself two or three really good investigators and put some good stuff together So yeah, that's kind of the key I mean you guys both been the penerable feel for a while we've been a paranormal feel for a while and it's amazing almost as heartening to an extent of Some of the quality versus quantity of teams out there. There's some phenomenal people in the field But there's a whole lot more people in the field who are like, you know in their mid to late 40s living in the mom's basement Who's talking about my early 30s ask?
But we were we're actually talking about you last night that it's just there's some really sketchy investigators out there who just really give everybody else a bad name You know and we're talking the weird. I don't even know how to get it to into it without any half the people who listen to us But yeah, I just again your quality versus quantity statement kind of hits home because we're talking about that You know even if you have a paranormal festival you figure out pretty quick which teams have got there act together Which ones are kind of sketchy just by how they operate and how they behave and Especially how they treat other teams. I mean we all know in fact we were discussing before the podcast So we don't mention names, but there's some teams out there that are very in it for the money They're in it for fame and notoriety and you catch on to what motivates these people and sometimes It's not the right reason to be in the field I want to say right the kind of running right in the middle finger to every other team in the state while out searching for their 15 minutes of fame so to speak so we're about running out of time Yeah, do anything else you'd like to cover? Just one thing we're putting together for our booth I think we might have mentioned this earlier, but I'm gonna reiterate it and we're looking for photos If you have been on an investigation with us and have some fun snapshots They don't even need to have anything that is paranormal in it But you have a you've got a photo of Castle and Lurch hugging or You know something fun send it to me just email it to me Oh hugging work does a lot of fun?
Yeah, so now just because you send it to us doesn't mean it's not gonna get Doesn't mean it will get used and there's a lot of our own pictures that we're not using but the more photos we have for our Well photo booth the better it will be so send those so yeah Just for the contest on those photos just send them all to castle at wisps.org and we will get those to where they need to go Yeah, so again, send us your story. It can be fiction. It can be fact. Let us know which yes That's very important.
I just know it's really not keep it under three pages three pages tops Again, the winner will be published in paranormal veracity magazine and we'll receive a free ghost I fear factory with the west team or Ben's and Grissman whichever one you want whichever one you want I will say however Benson Grissman will come with a free barbecue. Yes. Oh, we may make you make me bring napkins because we forgot That's it. Yeah, but napkins.
So you'll be required to have good sorghity You just got to bring the paper towels and then we'll bring all the food I was saying that kinsen cups because we had to make Be current brandy stuff and get some of them. I know it took forever to show up I know we're so we must just read an entire vegetable fairway for your show sucks to be you know These are pretty good now the ribs are better. So the pool park was amazing to have the pool board anyway Everybody thank you for tuning in we'd like to thank our guests again Zach and Paul and I'm sure we'll have them back I know Paul's gonna guess what this I think this is his third or fourth time But it's always a pleasure to have a keep them off the show. I'm okay with that I like having Paul and Zach on the show thanks for having me especially That keeps telling us get in touch from the moddy spot my ghost whoa it happens.
I'm getting some boon Annie All right, everybody have a good night and we will see you again in two weeks Peace out butterflies You're listening to the Wisps was at your investigative studies for paranormal science They're grown as adults like to sit in the dark and talk to each other But they all love their moms so that should account for something