I'm Brian Myers. I'm Mike Ritalik. I'm Becky Hiddad. And this is Al pellets, a podcast featuring tips for ad teachers.
We are your agricultural education resource across the web, sharing research based tips and tackling the tough questions facing agriculture teachers every day. I'm Jared and I am currently the Strategic Communications Manager for the College of Agricultural and Life Sciences at the University of Florida. And while I am working full time, I did my master's as an Ag and Communications student at UF part time. And I have re-enrolled again to do this as a doctoral student.
So I am a part time student and full time staff member here. Excellent. Nicole, what do you like to help out about yourself? Hi, thank you.
And Nicole Sten, I am an Agricultural Leadership Education faculty member through and through, although at this very second in my career, I am serving as the Associate for those in Dean of the Graduate School here at the University of Florida. And just really love this little bit of research that we're going to share with you and just excited to give you some insight into where we were as we were thinking about this study and kind of what it means. So thank you. Great.
Yeah, JC Ronna Stapley. Yeah, thanks Brian. So my name is Jake St. Bunch.
I'm an Associate Professor in Agricultural Education here in the Department of Agricultural Education and Communication at the University of Florida. My main focus is teacher education. So I work with pre-service teachers here at the University of Florida. I also do several in-service teacher trainings and in the department currently I am the graduate coordinator.
So I am out and about working with teachers and talking about graduate school with teachers and what does that look like and what does that mean for them? We got a pile of rock stars here. I like the variation of roles that people are playing and the expertise that they bring and I'm certainly excited about this topic and all of the various angles we're going to be able to talk about it today. That is right.
This group is definitely a pile. That is what we love them all very much. So Jared, let's get down here and tell us a little bit about what the topic is for today. Sure.
I think you and I all really like working with students and as you all know, if you are working with students, it's not a one size fits all thing because everybody kind of is on their own journey. And so what we really started to look at this from a grad student transitioning into a faculty perspective, we realized that you may walk into a room of who knows who's going to be there and feel like the imposter in the room. And I'm not supposed to be here. I don't actually know what I'm doing.
I'm not the expert. And while we try really hard to train our students to be the expert in their field or to be really successful in whatever career they go into, we realize that it's not the same journey that everybody goes on. We did a study to really look at what is the researcher identity development journey that faculty go on because we realize that so many of them get into this really successful career and they're really good at what they do. But the feelings that they are having inside do not say, I am the expert in my field or I know what I'm doing or I should even be in this room.
And so we looked at several faculty and early and post 10 year parts of their career to say what did you do during these different phases of your journey? But also how did you feel or what were others saying or what was the environment? What did this whole picture look like to give us a better understanding of how we can better support and mentor students through this process? So Jared, as you talked a little bit about exploring this process, what are some of the highlights of the tips that started to percolate as you were doing this project?
Yeah, and I think we all have something that we want to throw in here. But what I noticed is specifically as we were looking at students in their first time experiencing something with research, they're all doing different things. It may have been that really fun literature review that everybody loves to do or it may have been collecting data samples or soil samples or whatever those may be as part of that first experience of research. And that was really a mixed bag of how people felt about this.
But it wasn't until their dissertation when they were defending this thing, this big document that they wrote and conducted their own research study that they were like, wow, people are supporting me. My committee is looking at me as the expert in my field and I feel like I can do this. And this is something that I want to do. And so they had this really great kind of efficacy and satisfaction with what they were doing when they were defending their dissertation.
Then they graduated, they got that piece of paper that certificate, they went out into the first job and that efficacy tanked. And they were like, what am I doing? I don't know. I don't know how to do anything that I just learned.
Everything is different. There's so much pressure. And what I think we really learned that will swing back over time and that will increase for that efficacy level that they were feeling. But I think that parallels in a lot of different jobs that we have.
Whenever you graduate, you get that piece of paper that says, yes, we're putting our stamp of approval that you know what you're doing. And then we send you out and start evaluating an entirely different set of metrics. And so for school-based ed teachers or for university faculty, or for me when I'm taking on a freshly graduated communication staff person, you're trying to teach them something entirely different without the support that they once have from those mentors. And so I think that was one of the big eye opening moments for me is we kind of cut the cord when we send them out the door and they graduate.
And then we don't really follow up as mentors and say, hey, how can I help you do this next step of the process? And they have to figure that out for themselves. That was one of the big pieces for me as we went through this research process of, wow, we need to do a better job once we set them into that first job to continue to be successful. I think you mentioned something really critical there that it's part of any job.
I think it's so often we isolate because of the rule that we're in. Oh, this is a researcher. Oh, this is a teacher thing. Oh, but any time we're doing something new, like this comes into play.
This isn't necessarily a unique thing to a researcher or a teacher, which I think there's a validation there too. This isn't this isolated incident where this is just me or this is just this career or I can't do this because it's isolated, like it's isolated thing. But I do think you feel this isolated piece of it. And so everybody in the room may be feeling the same isolation.
And so that's one of the pieces for us that I think we tried to figure out how we better bridge that gap to support so that you realize that you are not the only one feeling this. Well, part of that too is, you know, understand that you're not the only one probably the room that feels that way. But then from this work or other work that you do, how do they start that conversation with other people to admit that they're having these feelings because there's the pressure for faculty members when they're doing this in a role because you're at university. I have a degree so I know these things.
The same thing as on that teacher. You're a new actor. You're supposed to know these things. What do you mean?
You don't know this. But then even bigger I see sometimes when I see a teacher or faculty that had a very, very successful being at a grad school, successful faculty or teacher positions who moved to a new school and they expect to be able to be at the same level they were at the previous position. And then they were like, oh my gosh, I don't know anything anymore. How do we help support them through that?
How do we get them to admit that it's okay to ask for some help? Can I just hop in? I absolutely love and hate this about so many of these life experiences that we go through. I think the best part of me being on the researcher data collector side of this experience was helping the individuals we were interviewing, if you will, go through this process because I'm not kidding.
There were moments where we had people crying. There was this kind of cathartic feeling of, oh my gosh, it's okay for me to admit this and it's okay for me to put this on the table in this space where this is part of the conversation we're having. It was so easy because in each group we had folks who were a little bit newer in the field and then we had folks who were clearly, in some cases, post-tenure who were still very much dealing with this, like, oh my gosh, I don't know that I've ever said this out loud. And so to kind of give individuals this space where we were kind of nurturing this conversation with them and for them would be really powerful.
And I think that's what I have taken away with me in terms of what I do now is I even got this home my story and I even got to confirm, like, even though I'm here and I'm doing X, Y, and Z in my career. Let me share with you my journey and I think even just being able to admit my own vulnerabilities now when I'm working with grad students or even talking with my staff, like that has helped. And I think just our willingness to kind of enter that vulnerable space with folks alleviates some of that kind of constraint. I think when you sit on the other side there's always this feeling like everybody knows so much more, everybody's always been prepared, you were born for this role, you were doing, you know, using all these natural gifts and recognizing that it is work and it is hard and I know I didn't always have the answers and just being able to communicate that when you're talking to somebody, I think people is that.
And allows people to feel comfortable admitting where they're struggling. But, for instance, 100%, like, you can't see me nodding my hand like it's going to fall off. I'm not going to start on the podcast. But so I think there's a part of this that's the personal how do I come into a job.
But there's also the piece of this of how do I approach research and there are lots of different ways that we're approaching that. We talked about the grad school, even a little bit in terms of that researcher identity, but there's a how do I approach research as a teacher? How do I start thinking about engaging in this? How do I think about grad school?
Like, I do grad school can be really intimidating. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, really in my role now as a dean of the grad, I talk to people about grad school all the time. I want to come back to grad school.
What are the things that excite you? What are the things that worry you? Like, how can we help you figure out if this is in fact the right path? And ironically, who probably the same conversation I had, you know, 25 years ago and thinking about going back to school for my master's was, oh, my gosh, I never was a great math and really intimidated.
I thought of all this stuff. I thought of doing research. Oh, my gosh. Like, am I really cut out for this?
And so I think a lot of individuals put this kind of definition, if you will, around what it means to be a researcher. And we do that very, very early on, given a whole bunch of different experiences we have in our lives. We think about grad school or a PhD being a research based degree and you can't see my ear quotes. That's what we kind of have to help people navigate through, right?
Is we all went through this. We all thought about research in a particular way. And you know, in the paper itself, we kind of tell those stories. I mean, I know sitting and talking with somebody who had gone through promotion in tenure, who was very much in the space of like, I still don't think of myself as a researcher.
And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, we've reached our stuff, we know you are, but there's this little light bulb. And we, in the research we did, we kind of designated two things. It was a light bulb in a heart.
And I think the light bulb was this, ah, ah, oh, the thumbs up. Thank you, dude. The light bulb was this like, ah, ah moment of like, okay, I see myself in this way. And some folks were able to bring that to the table themselves.
They found it within who they were very early on in their career. That this is what they wanted to be and could see themselves in that role. Other people were again, post-tenure before they were like, oh, maybe I am this. Maybe I am this researcher.
Maybe that is part of my identity. And I think that is a really hard thing for professionals who are coming back to school, whose identity have been their careers. I've never met somebody in teacher ed who didn't come in and say, I'm a teacher. That's what we do.
That's the role that we have had. And so then to think about that transition into being a researcher and what it takes really is a daunting task for some folks. And you have to identify those areas of efficacy that need to be developed. The mentoring that needs to be put in place, the support, the coursework.
And then I think just that continual affirmation of recognizing that you are doing well. Yes, there's going to be tough days. Yes, there's going to be days where you question what you're doing. But for the most part, we all did.
Every single one of us had those moments of like, oh my gosh, I left behind my paycheck, my career. And what am I doing? Okay, the end of the journey is so incredible. And so to be able to think about it in terms of what it means to be a researcher in our field, I think was really wonderful.
And so to be able to take that as I'm talking with grad students, our potential prospective grad students about what this can be for them is really wonderful. I think it alleviates a lot of that fear. And I think we live in a world where sometimes that fear serves us, but sometimes it also stops us from pursuing some of our goals. And if there's a way to alleviate some of that in a positive way, then I think we're doing a really good job of coaching people through that process.
I would have also had that while the people talked a lot about this relating to you, kind of that researcher journey. For me, I think that there's always a light bulb that goes off or flip that switch is when you realize, oh, this isn't just a title that I have, but something that I really feel. There's a specific day that one day when I write my memoir that everybody's going to read, I will know like this is the day that I became a professional in communications. And there are stories that go with it, but it wasn't.
I mean, that was two years ago and I'm seven years in my career now. So that was just quite a while to get to that point. But for those first five years, I would have told you, yeah, I'm a communications professional. It wasn't until I believed it, which was just a couple of years ago.
And so that I think is something too, as a teacher, you may graduate and you may have done your student teaching experience, whatever it is and say, yeah, I'm a teacher. But it isn't until you really have to deal with this one student or solve your first class from freshman to senior graduate or whatever that is. It's different for everybody. And so there isn't a set of metrics that we can say, all right, if you jump through these hoops, then you will feel like you are supposed to in this environment.
But I do think that there are a lot of steps that we can take in order to do that. And the first step is always getting to know whoever that student or whoever you're working with is because some of them are going to need a little bit more hand-holding or a little bit more tough love in these certain situations to make sure that they are getting to a point where they say, this isn't a title that I have, it's something I feel. So one of the things that for the season that we've been having this focus on is around mentoring. And, you know, I see a lot here.
So we talk about the imposter syndrome that we may feel as very unprofessional from the research in your experience. What are the things that you see would be helpful or that people that are around the idea of mentoring, both the folks that are going to be being mentored and those of us that may have a little greater or less hair on top of our head that are probably supposed to be the mentors. What are we supposed to be doing to help our early career colleagues, teachers, faculty, whoever else as they do, what these particular things? I smile because my master's thesis was all about mentoring.
And so I feel like I'm going to go back and pull out a couple of nuggets from there. But to me, when people ask about my master's work, the thing that I always tell them about mentoring is the first level of respect. So if you aren't mentored to somebody and you have done something that they do not respect, you have done some sort of unethical research practice or you have called somebody out for whatever it may be, that's going to damage that respect and you're not going to get very far in that mentoring relationship. So I think that that's always what it comes down to first for me is am I acting in a way that this, whoever I am mentoring is going to respect?
Because then we can build on that to a level of trust. So where they really think that my guidance will go somewhere. And I don't have that respect. It's done for.
I love that. I think that part of the relationship and the neutrality of it is what sometimes gets lost. I think for mentors, I think the expectation is that you always have some kind of guidance or have some kind of wisdom to bring to the conversation and to the relationship. And I think in a lot of cases that also feel pretty scary.
And so I think sometimes in those mentoring relationships, part of that respect is also again, sharing that vulnerability and being okay with maybe not having the exact answer or not having that exact bit of wisdom, but more or less helping your friends, your colleague, your peer, your mentee kind of thing through things. And I think that's where some of that guidance and respect and that wisdom comes from is recognizing that you can still contribute a lot to that relationship without always having to have the exact right answer. JC, you're a little bit different in that. Nicole and I were not school-based ed teachers.
So I would actually be interested from what you were a teacher, what was important for you as you were being mentored? I guess what I think about mentoring, both on the mentor and mentee side, is some of the best mentors I've ever had. We're just good listeners. You know, Nicole brought up this idea of we have to have an answer and it's not necessarily an answer, but sometimes it's listening.
I think of my role now. Sometimes it's easy for us to forget what it was like going through the experience, right? We go through this in a faculty role perhaps and you get tenured and you get over that in your tenure, but you forget quickly what it was like pre-tenured. And so sometimes I think we blurt out answers or we feel like we need to give answers when in actuality we need to listen.
And then after listening, I think it's being intentional on what did we hear and what things can we provide. Sometimes it's not an answer, but perhaps we're providing an opportunity for that person to engage in whatever it may be to help them professionally. You know, and I think early in my teaching career, you know, I was lucky enough to be in a multi-teacher program. I had Mr.
Cleaver. Hopefully he's listening. I'm sure he is because he enjoys things like this. But, you know, I had him to lean on and he was really about listening.
Sometimes I would leave our meetings thinking, Holly, he didn't even offer anything, right? Because that's the expectation. But it could be two days later and we'd be driving to a speech contest. And he'll say, you know, you remember you said this a couple of days ago.
I've had some time to think about that and then he would offer some, it would be delayed advice. And that's okay because he was an intentional in the way in which he was thinking about it. He was thinking about the context and which I delivered it. And so I think listening is really, really key to being a good mentor.
And then as a mentee, I don't know. I just, anything Mr. Cleaver told me out, I was writing it down, I was trying it out. And then I realized that not everything Mr.
Cleaver did worked for JC. And that's okay too. But at least it gave me a good, good attempt to try and I'd find ways to modify it. So I think as a mentee, it's also about listening and digesting and being a reflective practitioner on what you're going through, what advice you've been given, what opportunities you've been giving.
I really appreciate those nuggets and those pieces of advice. And I do hope as we think about this topic that we start to normalize it a little bit and the fact that people realize that we're all in the same boat in the same situation and whether we're moving from student teaching into the teaching field, those of you that want to think about coming back to graduate school, those of us that are finishing grad school and moving on to the next stage, I think we all find ourselves in that. So hopefully we take some of these elements that we've talked about today to ease and find that network and opportunities that are going to help us be successful in those areas. That's a great wrap up there, Mike.
I mean, I really appreciate how everyone has enjoyed this conversation. I know I have Jared, Nicole and JC, thank you so much for being with us today here on How Pellitz. We encourage everybody out there listening to look at their resources, look at the paper, look at the stuff they're doing and gaze on those conversations. As Mike said, realize so many of us all of them are dealing with the boxer center, it's okay to talk about it, get that mentor, have those conversations and really understand that you're not alone in all this sort of thing.
So look forward to seeing you all online and all of the ways that you interact with out Pellitz tips for Agteachers podcast. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Out Pellitz. Check out our website for more information on this topic and to learn more about our guests. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, stay connected and be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you'll never miss an episode.
For Mike and Becky, this is Brian here by The Out Pellitz saying thank you and we look forward to seeing you again on another episode of Out Pellitz tips for Agteachers.