Amy Poehler Returns

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard, and I'm joined by Mrs. Padman. Hi.

What a fucking treat. What a major, major treat. Babe versus here. Amy Poehler, our North Star, both of our favorite comedians.

I know. A god walking among us. I can't believe she sat in this very seat. I hope she farted.

Well, I doubt she did. She's very classy in addition to being so talented. But I'm just outrageously grateful about the conversation we had. And I thought she was really showed a very beautiful, tender side of herself that is just really...

I feel honored. Yeah, big time. Poehler is, of course, an actor, a comedian, a writer, a producer, a director, a creator of a comedy empire, UCB, done every single thing someone could do. Parks and Recreation, SNL, Inside Out, Mean Girls, Baby Mama, Carl Loomis.

She has a new movie out in theaters this Friday, Inside Out 2. I can't wait. Yes. Inside Out, the first one was so perfect.

It was one of the first gifts she gave to the kids. Do you remember that? No, I don't. You gave the DVD to Lincoln because it was one of your favorite.

You thought it really helped you understand your feelings. Oh, I can't believe you don't remember that. I don't. First of the gift.

Well, Inside Out 2's got a bunch of new characters, which is appropriate because our lead character is going through puberty. So, anxiety shows up. A Paris man. A Paris man.

In addition to Inside Out 2, you should check out a new podcast she's producing with her, two of her best friends, called Women Talking About Murder. This is brought to you by Squarespace. I feel like Spring always does this thing where you realize you've been thinking about something for a long time and suddenly it feels like, okay, maybe I actually do something with it. Totally.

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I've never met you in prison. I hate that, but I'm so nice to see you. Can we take a second to recognize someone saying the cute Wabi Wabi is? Were you expecting to be that cute?

Well, I've seen pictures of Wabi Wabi online. Sure. I've seen them in some of the- Promotional material. And I'm curious, would you sit back there?

Just run into the board. Can I tell you one funny story? So we had Wiz Khalifa on. From researching him, I knew there's no way this dude can get through two hours without smoking weed.

So I said, please feel free to smoke weed. So we have the window open or whatever, and he's smoking. And I thought he would smoke a joint or something, but he smoked six in a row for the entire- And I had this moment where I was like, I'm a little high thing. And then I look over at Monica, and Monica has this- There's Monica, she's like- No!

And I go, oh my god, Monica's back here's the best part. Rob! I look over and I'm like this. He said like this.

Oh, no. He said like this. Oh, jeez. Mr.

Brad has a really funny story about being at an SNL after party, and someone gave her black crow's weed. Okay. Oh, she's a weed and she couldn't get out of her- Because she's not a weed smoker. She smoked just a little bit, and she just stayed in her chair for like five hours until somebody rescued her.

Oh my god, you guys, I'm just taking it in the attic here. You're so- I feel like I know everything in this room, because I am the ultimate armchair. That is- The ultimate. I think my favorite feather in the cap is the fact that when you text me to say you like an episode, I really, each time I think, she's just being really nice.

I stopped a little bit because I was like, it's too much. It will never be too much. Okay, let's do more. I mean, I don't even know where to begin with how much I like it.

Even if you have rolling thoughts in the morning, you're like, hey, love the Maya episode. Just a little bit of feedback. Later, you're like, yeah, this one part, I could do an all-day stream of your reaction. Oh my god, I love it so much.

Thank you so much, Rob. Good job, Rob. You see that he's handing me a tea? I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much, Rob. Is it hot as 80s? It is. It's the correct British way.

Do you need milk with it? That's the really correct British way. I don't want to be- I feel like Rob has sat down now, and I don't want to ask him to get back up. I'm happy to go get some milk.

Yeah. Please and thank you. I'd love some milk and some sugar. Some regular milk.

That's the British way. It's the British way. It's the only way. It is.

It's the only way. When Dax told me that you listened, or I think he sent me, he probably betrayed your trust and sent me a screenwriter with a text. You'd be fine with that. The compliment.

Everything I text, I try to assume someday could be published. Exactly. Truly. It's the best moment that's happened in six and a half years, for sure.

Including Matt Damon. Whoa. That was the highlight. I could not believe that you were listening.

Wow. Well, of course I would listen to Babers. Well, hold on. I can make an argument in many ways you wouldn't.

Really? Yes, because I think if I've ever met anyone very similar, you and I are many hotheads, justice warriors, tip on our shoulder, analyzing everyone's intentions and motives. So in some weird way, I can imagine you going like, ugh. Well, I love podcasts.

That's my thing. I love listening to them. It's kind of replaced a lot of things for me. Living in LA, driving, listening.

But like you, I love trying to figure out humans. And when you're listening, it's safe. Like, you're listening to a conversation, you're having your thoughts about it, but I'm processing it on my own. That's why podcasts are great.

You listen on your own. Yeah, and you don't have to worry about your face betraying you. You can always react in a way, because certainly there's moments in here where I want to go like, you know, give up, whoa. Yeah.

But I'm not free to do that. I know. You kind of are. I love what you guys do, because I feel like I'm in the deep end with most of my conversations now.

I just want to kind of get into the deep end. Yes. Impatient to get there. But it's hard when you're doing work, or you don't want to do deep end conversations with people that you don't know, or you can't, I don't know.

So. You don't know their comfort level. The small talk is hard. We got to get right there.

I actually feel more comfortable there, because I think, maybe like you, I'm working on it. But I'm pretty hypervigilant, so I want to know who I'm dealing with. I know. So papers, it is a curiosity of mine, because on the surface, Mom and Dad are married.

Yeah. And Bill's a lovely guy. I have a very high A-score. Okay, great.

So this is one of my questions. I've taken the test. You have? Did you make it a few times so you could get your number up a little bit?

Yeah, I did that. Playing a fast food scarcity. Like, we didn't have a Kraft brand macaroon and cheese. That counts.

Yeah. Thank you, Mom. Sorry to make you leave the attic. I'm loving watching this.

I really appreciate you doing that. Thank you. And I'm sorry you had to leave. I'm sorry.

Okay. Okay. A-score, hypervigilance. Yeah, I'm working on it.

To answer your question, why? I'm not quite sure. I think I was born with it a little bit. I think I was a little parentified, and my parents were young.

What's parentified? Okay, like, you become the parent. Oh, right, right, right. The responsible one.

Yeah, my parents were really young. Loving parents, but young. We kind of grew up together, so I think I felt from an early age, I have to pay attention here. It's my job, too.

I might be asked to take the wheel at any moment. Yeah, I felt that from a very early age, like eight or nine, I remember. Maybe it's just ego. I don't know what it is.

I'm working on it, but I definitely felt like, I think I'm in charge here. Yeah. And you talked a little bit about it, too, but I just felt out of my body a little bit and aware of surroundings early, and then I got rewarded for it. Positive feedback loop.

Well, this was going to be one of my questions in much later, but I feel like every time I do bump into you, you and I are on a similar self-exploration path, or maybe you'll bring up something you've been mulling around, and I'll think, oh, yeah, that's really fun to think about. I'm going to try that. I was wondering. We have our story, and our story explains why we are the way we are.

It's so comforting, right? I can see you rolling around and frolicking the story. And then this kind of disruptive thing happens where you have children, and one of my two children, Lincoln, she has all the shit I have without any of the reasons I gave myself for being this way, and I'm more and more having to maybe consider, like, oh, no, man, it was all genetics. The story is just something you've put on top of it, and I'm just curious if you've had that experience with kids, and if it's, like, poked holes at all in your story.

Big time. Some of it is watching codependency, what it looks like for them, and realizing, right, I did that, I still do that, seeing that, and then having a kid that is really different than you. That's also a big one. Like, if they're an island, you're a wave kind of thing.

But deeper than a kid thing, if you're getting older and you're doing any work on yourself, it just becomes, like, an end of act two moment. And an embarrassment, right? It's so embarrassing. Like, all these, I always, I never, I'm this kind of person.

It's so gross because it's not really true or even really true anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's just an old story, and then you've got to start practicing your backhand, basically. What is your backhand thing that you can't do?

You just don't do it as much or as often? Do you want to practice that in act three? But it's so funny you say that. On my way here, I was thinking, I wonder what version of myself will show up in this interview.

Oh, that's fun. I wanted to be the authentic version, but I was nervous because I could bring a different version if I wanted to. Well, you have one that produces great results. This was another one of my highlighted words I just want to talk about was performative.

Yes, dude. As a concept. Let me back up. You're in therapy, Amanda?

Yes, I'm in group therapy and individual therapy. Oh, my goodness. And guess what's coming back? Couples therapy.

Guess what, motherfucker. What? She was sitting right where you're sitting five days ago. So, you know, I'm so obsessed with couples therapy that I do a fake podcast where I play a couples therapist named Dr.

Sheila. Question mark. Question mark. Thank you, Dex.

Due to legal reasons. And I'm obsessed. And you are, too. Why do you think we are?

Why are we obsessed with couples therapy? Oh, my God. Well, I'm obsessed with all of it. I love porn.

I love anyone who does a good job at anything, so she's there. Her hair and her ability to just look and not talk is crazy. And it just pulls out the thing in the other person that they don't even know. It's so under the surface.

And all of a sudden, this, like, recluse is crying and opening. It's unbelievable. And then, also, I'm obsessed with why is she doing it? Oh, we get into that.

Okay, I can't wait to hear. Then, the couples. I mean, thank you for your service. Truly.

And not in a million years, babers. No way. Yeah. That's too much.

Yes, and you and I, this is where we diverge a little bit. We do have different comfort levels with that aspect. And I guess, probably, my explanation, my story is AA for 20 years. I'm so used to fucking strangers are there, and I'm talking about shitting the bed in an orgy, and we move on, and I live.

I'm working on, this is going to sound so cheesy, this connection, but this is why I'm like, I'm going to do TikTok this year, because I know this is easy. I know you reference TikTok in an interview. I love TikTok, but the connection really gets bigger than that, which is, how do you allow yourself to be seen? You have to allow yourself to be seen or known.

Sometimes, as I get older, I realize, am I truly known? It's like a deep ache. You want to be known? So, it's kind of like, how much do you give away?

How much, who can you do it with and do? You want to be known. You don't want to feel lonely. Babers, you're emotional about being known.

Is part of it to be known, but also to know yourself, or do you feel like you 100% know It's more like a little sad for the parts of me that didn't allow myself to be out there and be known, which is why couples therapy is so fascinating to me. It's like this combination of, in therapy in general, being tender and being known, and then also setting good boundaries and taking care of yourself. It's deep stuff. I just love it.

Does that make sense? It does. My kind of recent breakthrough with this attempt at therapy, my most recent attempt, which is going on for two and a half years. And this is your first time you've ever done therapy?

I did couples therapy. I saw one person for a minute, maybe two different people. The real thing that happened in this one, it's magic. I assess this guy immediately as someone that could care less if he got my approval.

That's an important aspect for me in the equation. Do you sense that? Yes. Honestly, my job in therapy is to just straight up, therapy 101, feel my feelings.

Barf. No, thank you. It always comes back to the pause of just, could you sit in that feeling? It's so annoying.

I want to get into the action. I want to get into, frankly, the more heady approval stuff. Solution base. Yes.

I want to think about status and power. I want to talk about all this stuff. I want to be victorious over it. And I just want to get into my head.

But it's just, feel your feelings. What are you feeling? Does it make you sad? And it's like, yes.

It makes me sad. Does it make you angry? Yes. And it's just like, stay there for a minute.

And you're just like, are you kidding me? Yeah. Is yours a man or a woman? I have a woman.

Was that intentional? I've had both. I've had a few therapists and I've had mostly women. And I've had a man and that was interesting too.

I have to say, with a male therapist, I felt a little more performative. And do you have any bias? Like, is there one gender that's harder to trust than the other for you? Well, what I respond to, I feel like, again, a story that I take care of myself and a lot of people.

Like, I'm a big caretaker. I get a lot of pride from it. I think you do too. Yeah, a scene.

You created an actual cult in a family here and there's a mommy and a daddy and a baby and a baby that was married. So I want to be the cult leader. Like, I don't want to be in a cult. But I think sometimes I want to be very little to someone's big.

I love being little. Getting taken care of? Yes. You want to feel tiny.

Yes. This is why you and I have a good rhythm. That's why I love your giantness. And I want to protect you.

I know. And so I like therapists that are a little bossy and big. So I guess it's kind of what you're saying. I can't bowl them over or win them over or impress them or trick them.

I like kind of being a mother. It's like the high-powered CEO being the sub. I'm obsessed with sub and dom in general. I'm so dom in a lot of my life.

I don't always want to be that way. Yes. Especially in intimate relationships. Yeah.

Is it a rejection thing? Is it you're protecting yourself so much because you're worried about rejection or fear of rejection? Interesting. I don't know if it's as much of that as it is just the relief of being not in control because I love control.

It's why COVID sent me over the edge and I'm always realizing I'm not in control. That's the thing I have to keep remembering. This is very timely. So the one that's like me or that I am like her and she's her own person.

Be open to the fact she's her own person. I know. I'm watching her just battle it. I always describe it.

Like getting into bed to me is like getting in the cage with a tiger. Ooh. It's so funny you say that. I used to fight bedtime as a kid all the time too.

It felt like a challenge. Do you know why? It's hard to control when you are unconscious. No, I love bedtime.

I think about bedtime. All day. I mean about bedtime. I feel like I can't wait for bedtime.

You're a bedtime boy. Rob, don't you use that picture of me. I see the pictures that you use. Rob loves to use open mouth pictures.

Okay, so she has a problem with bedtime. Yeah, and again, she also hates instruction. She doesn't want to learn from anybody but herself. And so last night was particularly gruesome.

And I said to her, all I'm asking for tonight is just start imagining what surrender looks like. For me, surrender is the hardest thing in the world. But I don't think you can try to go to sleep. Yeah.

When you try to go to sleep, it can't happen. You just have to surrender and try to read a book and try to listen to an audio book. Forget about sleeping. Consider the idea of surrendering.

And it can be a victory. Can I ask you something about that? Because do you feel like. you share your stories with your kids because what's coming up for me what's coming up for me you know is that dutch thank you is that sometimes i see them disconnect when i'm talking i mean it happens with us already in life when just anyone that's older than us you know when i got my first job and you're just like it's not like that anymore your experience is different does that ever happen when you share you know the way i do it it's got to be really really specific and thoughtful and if it's about like oh when i was a kid i didn't have a swimming pool yeah if i'm comparing two things that are different yeah but it's about the feeling yes a great example is she's in the back seat and she was just at friend's house who were christian they prayed at the dinner table and she felt really weird and maybe they wouldn't like her because she didn't believe that and i didn't cut to how to deal with it i just went like oh my god i remember that so well there's so many kids i grew up with you get the table and they're all praying you're like are you gonna look at me i think my only goal is to let them know like you're not alone or weird in this experience and this person you're seeing who's fully functional and has created this world you live in also had all that stuff so why do you have to do the second part which is giving her the tip of how to go to sleep because i'm here as a challenger so the idea of surrender i'm asking for myself to really challenge why can't we stop at the empathy part and not have to give the fix part well because she is 11 and she is dealing with insomnia and i've been dealing with it for as long as i can remember and i have acquired some tools i didn't figure out until eight years ago that a book on tape is the perfect level of distraction so i can't focus on going to sleep it seemed crazy not to offer that to her or if she ends up being an addict and i know about a and i don't say it to her but i think what's key or at least how i receive stuff is like i'm not telling her i'm telling her what's worked for me so i've got teens now and i am learning though the way to keep them talking is to not do the second part uh-huh is to do the part of that happened to this period the end yeah as well intentioned and as sensitive and thought out and connected is the second part is yeah i think it gets kids feeling like expectation they want to do it for you i see exactly what you're saying i agree and i think it's aspirational because the challenger part of me even the most soft version of that in my head well i tried i'm doing that i know that and exacerbates maybe the frustration she's already feeling like it almost presents the fact that there is a solution she's just not using it you're right ideally i would never do it unless they directly ask me for advice because it seems like you're having a hard time with her insomnia you've said a couple times that it reminds you of your insomnia so i'm saying you know like i know people do this but she's gonna go to sleep it's gonna work itself out she's not going to she's going to figure out how to sleep sleep deprivation it's interesting you might be uncomfortable with her insomnia well you know it's even more direct i'm not kristin is and i'm also trying to manage you know because i mean he's got two of my three gals are tore up about this thing and then the dude in me is like okay if i may the dude in you is like i'll fix it in a very sneaky way where they think i'm just sharing my a version of the story but i'm telling her to surrender nothing works more than when you tell someone to surrender yeah when you machiavellian i really i want to fix it i definitely have that vibe i don't think it's binary though i don't think you can have an approach that i don't ever give advice or i do give advice i just find for me when i start to it's where i listen the results are clear but part of it's ego right because you want to be someone who is good at giving advice i think all three of us here like that okay let me ask you this because i had a therapist asking this one time and i loved it what do you do when people don't take your advice what does it bring up like i'm not worthy yeah yeah it's like oh what i said was i guess or you wasted my time yeah exactly same i freaking love advice you love giving it or receiving it i love giving it it's hard for me to receive it you know you should do it's like the sound of a bomb going off 70 of the sentences my brother starts with you and i'm like have you ever thought if the person who's trying to give me advice i know is also very receptive to advice they themselves have taken in a lot of advice i am more willing but if it's not someone who i think is very good at receiving and then they're trying to give i'm like no no you don't get to do that totally it's just the right person in the right way but i notice it luckily i have a tool or a trick in the door for a second longer be like oh okay hold on something's happening but yes go ahead even that's enough but i didn't realize that when i was getting it back i would just start shutting down but i was so good at fooling people they didn't know i was like thank you thank you yes so good thank you and then i just didn't receive it so do you feel seen when i talk about i have done myself such a disservice by not calling people along the way that were already in the same station and say hey what's the ride been like for the last three years what should i look out for i completely relate and i have been trying to fix that because women who are about 10 years older than me are so prime time for me i'm so blown away by how helpful they are just even being around them i don't ask specifically enough but i'm working on it because when i do i feel like a watered plant or something but i am the same i love being a mentor of course it's my dream it's the best feeling in the world let me applaud you you're a fucking great mentor you have people in here endlessly who you have played a role in their journey to where they wanted to get you were great at it well it's like my forehand i love it i gotta work yeah so i can see several different motivations for not availing yourself to advice i know a few of mine and i'm curious what your explanation is because i think maybe it would expose the fact that i don't belong here to ask and that's a great fear of mine like do i really belong here and if i'm actually admitting to you i'm not sure how to navigate this i'm really exposing myself is maybe not belonging here is that part of it or is it more like it's a weakness okay i'll get vulnerable here monica i feel this way about relationships maybe you do too but you know i'm single when people talk about relationships it's like if they don't do it the right way it's so wrong and you just don't know what to say other than like just do it the right way i can't tell you but if you say anything wrong i just can't so i think it's less imposter syndrome and more just like true vulnerability and sensitivity to being afraid that they're going to get something wrong about you i think it comes back to if i open up and say what do you think i should do and someone gives me advice that isn't right it's like they don't actually know me that's the part that makes me feel sad and then also now they think something wrong about me and i didn't say it right to them i always feel so bad i'm like no i didn't mean it like that miscommunication is so sad for me it makes me feel disconnected i've done it three times this year it's the first three times of my entire life you've gone out to a mentor i've asked people if i can talk to them for advice that's gonna be cool it was when wrestling with this fear of a loss of relevance which i can barely admit out loud that that's something i will ruminate on and then that my financial trajectory would take that down a cliff huge economic insecurity all three people i asked advice for who had been further along down the path in a very similar path they didn't have great advice but commiserating with them and sharing that we both have those fears was enormously helpful and right-sized it and actually in its own weird way was advice i left feeling much better did you share with them that it was hard to ask yeah i think that helps i don't think people think that things are sometimes hard for me so i sometimes go this might be weird but it's kind of hard for me to ask this and you can tell people really relax and i'm probably shocked because you present of all the people i've watched there's so much seeing confidence in who you are i think that's why people are attracted to you there's just like a clear direction you seem to always be moving in and it's very much the steering wheel's in your hand and yeah i imagine it shocks people to hear that amy is scared or fearful or confused wow great job amy you really managed to never what the fuck okay your goal was to have control and you did it yes so you did do a good job but now i'm not serving you anymore and so you have to let it go yeah you practice it i'm so the same and i just had this huge meltdown essentially on air can you listen to it it was not on air okay but it can be right now yeah i had a big meltdown it almost came out on air because then we recorded the next day and i was still so fucked up about it and it was with orna i entered the space and i was like oh my god i'm already on tilt i'm already not well and we're sitting with orna and she's just gonna get right in it within the first two minutes i was like i'm about to cry so i have to stop i don't want to draw attention to this is it so funny because some people love crying yeah it's so embarrassing it's like throwing up it is it is if you feel better after i can cry on my own in my car but in front of other people it's hard no but you know there's also nothing i love more than somebody feeling safe to cry in front of me it's a beautiful thing but anyway i had this big meltdown and a friend was there for it and then she told another friend and jess and then jess came up to me and he was like you know i forget that you struggle because you are always the person to like give advice you're always the person who seemingly has their shit together and that's why i like this show is i don't want to hear people's like i got my shit together who cares there's nothing for me to learn they also don't they also don't none of us do but why don't i afford myself the same luxury of that it's really weird stay tuned for our matter expert if you dare i want to know more about your meltdown but i know you i can say we'll see what we keep in a bit because it has to do with the show a little bit so are you okay with me telling this of course okay we had a live show many years ago and there was a guy there with a sign we've talked about it a lot on here yeah is this the dance that you guys do where you're like he was into you 100 percent my feelings about this i almost want to hear him before you hear the story because you might be very vindicated i have no worse in this race having observed it it's a dance you guys get into a lot my question is how's it working for you because it's terribly okay yeah i'll be the first to admit it doesn't ever have any impact what comes up for me is i've been on the side of monica where i feel like someone is it's not gaslighting but it's this feeling of someone's telling you something and it doesn't make you feel better and they can't understand why it doesn't you feel bad you're not feeling better you can feel the other person really wanting to no you're not understanding this is what i'm saying and you're also talking about something that's not really provable it's not objective you're also the perfect person to be talking about this because i quote your book all the time you have the same ism monica and i have which is you didn't think you were hot exactly you're the perfect person i think to be entering this and clearly there's been a bunch of me in your life going amy are you fucking ridiculous and you know what's so funny is what i feel in those moments is you're trying to build up monica's self-esteem but from my experience it does the opposite it makes you feel even worse because you feel pity yes somebody's trying to prove to you that you're good enough but that they have to do that means you're not yes well i will challenge that though i'm not having to do it because you're vocally telling me you're not worthy of anyone's attraction it starts with i live in reality where i travel through the world with monica and i see dudes like her could you tolerate the discomfort of not having to prove her wrong about that because if someone says i'm feeling that way and someone says that's crazy there's a million people it just doesn't work it feels like i'm denying your experience and i know monica knows what your intention is so it's so pure on top of it not working you feel bad you're not receiving the loving intention it's a double win i know you're doing something nice so i feel bad because you're doing something nice and i don't like it your timing for this is perfect and she'll tell the story why because i'm done with it so it's funny you would bring that up and that's over for us and this story will demonstrate the outcome of it so we have this guy on or he was at the show he had this sign he calls it out it's a big thing this guy's in love with you and i said no he's not and i think he just is doing a funny fun thing whatever this is a back and forth for so many years this example gets used as you've heard all the time as to why i can't see that people like me and so last week how do i say this without the guy who was in love with her is now dating a male friend of hers yeah and i found this out and i had a meltdown and i was like really struggling you had a meltdown that's very interesting that that's where you went well at first i was like i knew i was gonna say you didn't feel vindicated i did that was the first thought but then it was immediately followed with so much sadness and i couldn't really figure out why at first but it was that i had to accept that when dax says that to me i don't believe him but i want to and there's a piece that i leave open for it to be true and so when it's not it's just devastating yeah of course and i know like don't be mad at him for this it's not his fault but this feeling is more about me and you than it is about me and that guy it's more about well i was gonna say it to you and you my worthiness my feeling on level it's just all immediately right there and also yes anger with myself why isn't this fixed yet i understand but then she was pretty mad at me that day i wasn't mad at you but i wanted to tell you well i specifically asked are you mad at me about this and you said yeah sorry i'm turning into orna now but when you say are you mad at me and someone says yes do you get a charge no oh i don't need a charge like yeah let's go let's just say i love confrontation i just love that someone tells me they're mad at me i love the honesty and monica and i for our many faults we're very very honest with each other and it's how we kept this thing coming it's like my biggest fear is someone's mad at me and they don't tell me is that because can't you tell i don't even have that fear it's not even a fear i just went there upset and we don't talk it just feels so awful yeah i hate that let's do this and i got it i understand unraveling happened and then of course my defense of myself was like yeah you know what one of these guys again i'm not remounting the argument but i get texts all the time dudes in my life you are doing it right now you're actually getting right back on the stool my personal fear was oh god one person was proven correct so now the whole world view is kind of confirmed that no guys like her and then i just decided this is never going to yield any positive outcome and i do yield oh sorry my phone is calling oh let's see who's calling maybe it's someone fun oh my god it's cedar city utah i think it is spam by the way that was crazy spicy census how did you even did you feel like you felt i heard a little buzz okay because i didn't hear a buzz i have my phone down my pants like you don't great so what i think is interesting is what if we slid it over to something that isn't as charged in a pie of life maybe the relationship piece is a little charged i'll attend right now so let's say slide it over to something that you feel like a little bit more solid let's say work so if someone says i'm trying to get a job and someone else who's been in the job market because you've been married for a long time so a married person who hasn't maybe been putting resumes out says you know what you should do or you know what there's a ton of people that want to give you a job you'd be like but it is different now i i'm having a different experience and you haven't been looking for a job for 15 years and so i want to try to remember to ask more people that are also looking for a job what they're doing a little bit less the people that haven't looked for a new job in 15 years but they're well-intentioned yeah they want the best for you of course i'm gonna get a job you slide it over to another thing it just feels very clear it's just like charged stuff like super the fears of not being enough romantically are for me the strongest in the world to not be desirable that's the number one thing as a single person there's also just an added layer of like who is the person because the last five years especially as a person dating out in the world has been a trip i just want to commiserate empathize to say the job market is not the same as it was not to call it a market but it has its own different things now people are experiencing differently and people are dating differently people are expressing themselves differently so i noticed it because i've spanned both versions yeah it's not maybe the way you might be remembering it i'm getting a little defensive i can feel it about i don't know that i'm giving so much advice and maybe i am and i'm blind to it but i would think of it more or this is what it feels like it is to me i also know monica's a great writer and she has opportunities to write that come up and i tell her all the time don't forget like you're a bad mother and that's a very rare skill don't underestimate how few people can actually write in my opinion that separates the adults from the kids that's the superpower and i'll just throw that her away i'm not saying like you should submit for a book or you should do this or you should contact this person i'm just kind of at times as i hope i would do with any friends like when i see you have something special i want you to not sleep on it but the difference is i'm not saying no i'm not i agree i know that about myself so when you say it it makes me feel good i like that you like that about me but it's not doing anything to me because i already know that about myself i feel confident there it's just nice but the relationship stuff i don't know anything it's so scary it's so hard for me it's so deep it's so old all this stuff and this is my fault that anything anyone says is gonna rock the foundation that's my stuff to fix and you matter to me so your opinion matters so when you say stuff i'm like maybe it's true because he's saying it and then when it's not i'm mad yeah i get it i'm sorry i would not want to add on the layer that you're articulating which is like and now i also feel bad because of this i don't wish to do that and i'm sorry you guys talk about a lot of stuff in here you really get in and it's enmeshed in a way so Maybe you want to figure out how much it's difficult because it's content.

Your stuff is your content. So it's difficult. Amy, on your journey, though, over the last five years, I do want to know one aspect. Because I, even after getting out of the relationship with Brie.

Is Brie going to be on the show, by the way? Because, you know, I've met Brie. Oh, yes, yes, you have. Babers, we've known each other long.

We have been through a lot. 20? It's 18, 19 years. Yeah, yeah.

So, yes, after Brie, I had this two-year panicked feeling of, like, that can only happen to you when you're young. I had this real fear that I could never maybe feel that thing. And maybe that's just a part of being young. And I'm just curious, do you have that at all?

In where? Where you're at. Where you're dating and you're not 20 years old? No, mine is more really trying to bring, kind of what we were talking about earlier, bring the authentic version of myself to a relationship.

Because I think that's the work, is showing up and figuring out what that is. And I've been grateful that I've turned the work in a little bit. Other people as medicine was definitely something I probably, yeah, we all do, yeah. I always say it's the original drug.

A hundred percent. For me, it was six-grade, six-grade a hit. Me, too. I mean, I've pulled so many hot guys.

Yeah, you have. I kind of know some of the roster. The pull was part of the charge. And then what is intimacy?

Like, working on that, so it's almost like it's just trying to figure that out day by day. And so you're doing all that work on yourself, figuring out how to also just casually be casual. It's weird. It feels weird.

It just feels like rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time. It's just like, I don't care. I totally care. I want this to be so important.

I could give a fuck if I ever see you again. The two things are strange. Don't you think it almost feels like they're diametrically opposed? Like, if I actually get to this place where I'm not fearful that you could see all of me and you would reject me, I almost imagine I wouldn't even be interested in a partnership with more.

Right, I don't need anyone. It almost seems like one friend's the other. Not to get, like, too global, but I think that romantic love is so lionized and there's so many versions of love. I know I have a ton of them in my life, so they fulfill all this stuff, but we still are just obsessed with one version of love.

And even we know that version is not even real. It's temporary at best. A hundred percent. So sometimes I'm like, do I just miss the oxytocin of the love part?

Yeah. So I feel kind of sober. I'm not using anybody. I'm not being used.

I'm trying to figure it out. It's hard. I wonder, like me, it's such a part of who I am. Like, just endless female validation I need to know at all times.

And actually, as I'm getting older and I'm feeling myself transcendent, that almost scares the fuck out of me. I was just in Austin for a week by myself and I go to Barton Springs and I can see these women are hot. Like, I'm observing. Oh, that one's very hot.

That one's very hot. And then there's no second thought of, like, I would like to do anything with them. And I'm like, oh, I'm getting older. Yeah.

And I don't want to do anything with them. And that scares me. Like, well, then why am I? It's been the, like, singular reason I've wanted to be alive is to go out there and get some approval from ladies.

It's a scary thing to let go in the same way any other maybe addiction is. It's like, that's the zest of life. I think of it as the end of act two, basically, which is, okay, so there's a big thing at the end of act two, which is like, what the fuck are we going to do? Oh, no, we're screwed.

And then you realize, but it opens up spirituality and it opens up compassion and it opens up connection. It opens up a lot of other things. But I know what you mean. I'm phrasing it as, like, I'm holding on to it.

I'm not. But I'm aware of it. And I'm like, well, it's such a curious thought to be on this planet and meet someone that's high status and attractive and never even think, I wonder if they like me. That's such an unimaginable world for me.

And then what goes in place of that? I so relate because even with comedy and improv and all stuff, you were just aware of status. You'd play around with it. You'd have fun with it.

The big and little of it all. And then when it kind of starts to fall away, I mean, because it's a fear of death, really. It's just like, oh, no, am I going to die? To bring up an interview I was reading with you and you were talking about that you have discovered later in life that you're more of an introvert than you knew.

And I guess I was wondering when I read that, are you discovering you were always more of an introvert or has the context of your life actually just made you more of an introvert? Because I think for me, I was just trying constantly to get everyone's approval. And basically everyone around me had higher status or they were further along in their career or they had more money, whatever the thing is. And then as I have gained status, the pit isn't there.

Interesting. Maybe. Because if I'm dead honest with myself, I just went to this interesting conference for two days and all of a sudden there's like professors there. I want them to think I'm smart.

Lo and behold, here's the extrovert I always was because I too have had the same thing. I'm like, I'm an introvert now. But put me in the right room and I'm not. I'm right back to being an extrovert.

Ooh, you're hitting on something. It's disgusting, but I think it's the truth about me. It's not disgusting. It's like human nature.

We're social primates. Ooh, that's so interesting. You might be right because I did learn in the pandemic I wasn't a true introvert because I was really hurting. Itchy.

I just felt I definitely need people and I need to feel connected to those people. But I'm going to really think about that because I don't think I ever really recognized the amount of energy I would put out. I felt really proud of how much energy I could put out. And then when the universe kind of made us all stop, I definitely had to look at my workaholism and just productivity in general.

The myth of that and what does it even mean? And that's very generational. We definitely were told that. So part of my extroversion was about the grind.

I just got such pride in how much I felt like I could grind and hustle. Even letting that go feels like a vitality part. That's really scary. For sure.

I know for you it's time in the money. On the zero to ten, where are you at on the money? I don't have the same. No, I don't.

I have a very blue collar. I've thought about it because I've listened to you guys talk about it. I don't have the same fear. I never felt a grasping energy with it.

And therefore, it didn't feel like it was going to go away. I'm not hypervigilant in a way that I am about other things. So that's not the thing. It's not your hang of you.

This time around. It's definitely to feel like there's some karma I've got to burn off. And money isn't my karma this time around. Right.

Thank God. But there's other stuff. Can we pause real quick because I have a question about when you said you pull Hawkeyes. So is that the status marker?

I can't believe it. I love it. Is that going to be the poll call of this article? It should be.

You have. But you have. And you should. I only say that because I'm just relating to the chase of it.

You're also talking to the kettle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's my question. Is it a person with physical attractiveness so that you then feel, for me, if a Hawkeye likes me, that I feel hotter?

I love an alpha. Alphas love alphas. I love it. You know, you're the one who introduced me to the alpha concept in 2006.

You were early in on the alpha energy and you informed me all. And I have been around so many alpha males. I mean, it's been your whole life. I also love alpha males.

I'm obsessed. And you're just like, oh my God. So I think there's something about status. But there was a relaxed sense of self where I could even fake it most of the time, but where I felt confident enough to go for it.

And that's changed a little bit now, I have to say. It's not the same. That's why I'm relating to the job market is different. Things feel different.

Everyone's coming at each other like cats, not dogs. Everything's very sideways-y. It feels like. It doesn't make sense.

Am I talking in the middle? I also, what's my point? Oh God, I can't believe I said I pulled out, guys. Oh my God, Amy.

And also, you know, oh God. Of course you pulled out. I feel like. Oh, here we go.

You're about to make the same stage twice. I know. Babers, you're a smoke show. And you're so confident.

Babers, thank you for saying that. Yeah, you are. You're such a smoke show. I'm back at you.

And what a fucking once-in-a-lifetime personality. What a once-in-a-lifetime performer. Any fucking dude is going to cut it out. I love you.

I love you. No, I love you. I love you. I love you.

I think you and I agree. I was like, this is a little unicorn bouncer. But she's got sparklers coming off her hooves. I love you.

Thank you and I agree. And I can't wait to find out who that person is. As we're now, we're not entering middle age. You're not in habit middle age.

Are you feeling. Isn't that weird? And I feel a little more intolerant. But I do feel the transition happening.

Do you feel it? Yes, big time. And that is the mentors that are my mentors without knowing that I'm mentors. They are my mentors.

That is what I learn a lot is just letting go of the smaller things. Letting go of the fight. Letting go of the judgment or the resentment. That part feels really good.

When I'm on the other side, you just start looking at things and you're like, it's not that important. That bothers me. And yet, it's okay. I've started to let go.

And accept it. Yes. What are you doing for your 50th? Are you having parties?

Okay, so similar to that I don't ask anyone for advice. I also never invite people to a birthday party. Okay, same. And can I just say something?

I don't like birthdays. I never celebrated them. The idea of like surprise, nightmare, nightmare, people toasting, nightmare. I had a dance party for my 50th.

Great idea. Highly recommend it because you know we both love to dance. You and I were born on the dance floor. We were born on the dance floor.

But also I just love it for social anxiety. I don't really want to chit chat. I just want to kind of move around. And we know we're good.

Let's be honest. We're fucking good. We have to win the dance contest. But have a dance party for your 50th.

It's funny you say that. So I don't ask for advice. I don't want anyone to come to my birthday party. I'm certain I'll have a bad time.

So I'd rather just not deal with it. And also I don't ever ask for presents or things. So weirdly I've decided. So I was watching Instagram.

I'm watching this guy cook a fucking tomahawk steak in the woods. Oh I've seen that guy. And he's got a pot of butter over a fire. And he's like stirring the butter with the tomahawk steak.

And I sent this video to Aaron Weekly. And I said I want you to make me this steak in the woods for my 50th birthday. Will you? And he said absolutely.

And then I saw these crazy hard-boiled egg hamburgers on another Instagram thing. And I sent those to Charlie. And I said I want you to make these for me on my birthday in the woods. And by the way, I'm shocked.

They can't wait to do that for me. Yeah of course. I'm just blown away. They're like oh my god I can't wait.

Yes I'll do that. So currently there's going to be some event in the woods where they're making all these meals. But we have a barn in Tennessee. And it's built for a dance party.

Oh my dude. If you have a dance party in Tennessee. I will go. Alright consider yourself invited.

And I think you should have a dance party. Because my experience was same exact thing. I never wanted to celebrate my birthday. People were like it's your birthday.

And I was like ooh celebrate. I'm judgmental with people who make a big birthday. Me too. We make it their whole birthday day.

And they're weak. And at the end of the day. We're still talking about your birthday. Even though I love to give them a present and I love to think about that.

I'm just like okay it's your birthday all day. Yeah all day it's your birthday. And I have to say have a dance party. Have a silent disco.

It helps me cross over my 50s. Which face were you meant? I was in New York. My friend runs that show Sleep No More.

The discos. And it was at the McKittrick Hotel. Samantha Ronson was a DJ. Oh wow.

Get a great DJ. I just said I want 80s and 90s hits. I've known Buckethead and BMA at the door. Exactly.

My parents came. All my friends. We managed to kind of thread through COVID. We were in between bursts of strains.

So everybody came. There was no toast. No chit chat. But it was important.

You know that's all too. The thing I hate about parties like that is there's all these people I love. I would want to spend 30 minutes talking to each person. And then you end up having to say hi to all these people.

And I get self-conscious about it. They felt shortchanged. But if the whole event's on the dance floor. I said I'll be on the dance floor.

Come say hi. Right. Genius. Because I didn't want to stand at the door.

I didn't want to talk a lot. And also I kind of wanted to just point at people on the dance floor. And for them to be like hi. And then they come back and leave.

It felt like a good thing to do for myself. Also not to be cheesy. But it's nice when you're 50 to actually look around and say. Wow.

I have all these friends. I built something. I have the Aaron Wheatley's of the world. I have new friends.

The numbers game is kind of nice. You see it all. It forces you to recognize. You really were here.

Yes. You really existed. As you get a little older. You want to remind yourself of the numbers.

Does that make sense? Sure. Yeah. Okay.

So this is one of my other questions. It's on a very similar topic to you getting to see all your friends in one place and recognizing it. You've had a bunch of chapters. You have SNL.

You have starring in movies. You have starring in TV. You have directing. You have writing a book.

You have building UCB. And I'm curious on your deathbed. What's the one that you're like. Oh man.

I'm proud of Amy for doing that. Oh wow. Because as I look at that list. I mean I have guesses.

But I feel like for you to drive down the street and drive by UCB. Yeah. Do I have to pick one? Okay.

This is going to be kind of cheesy. I'm not trying to avoid the answer. But it is the real answer. Because a couple of things pop up under this heading.