This is Hidden Brain, I'm Shankar Vedanta. On the surface, people around the world lead very different lives. Some live in bustling cities, others in tiny villages. Some are part of vast intergenerational households, others live on their own.
People in different countries follow a bewildering range of religious traditions, but atheism is also on the rise in many places. When anthropologists look beneath the surface, however, they often find that humans around the world are very similar. They invoke supernatural forces when it looks like their sports teams might lose. They take part in annual festivals that demand time, effort and money.
They mark important moments, such as marriages, births and deaths, with intricately choreographed scripts. These festivals, rites and scripts are so much a part of all our lives that few of us stop to ask why we perform them. This week on Hidden Brain, the deep history and powerful psychology of rituals. When you study at National College of Ireland, you don't do it alone.
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Terms and conditions apply prices for adults 18 to 64. VHI Healthcare, Drating is VHI Healthcare, regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland and is the most expensive and expensive part of the world. Anthropologist Demetrius Zigalátas works at the University of Connecticut. His research has taken him across the planet.
In his travels, Demetrius has found common cultural practices among people living in far flung places. Many of these practices involve dangerous, difficult or expensive rituals. The rituals themselves are often dramatic. They are also regularly incomprehensible to outsiders.
But when you peer beneath the surface, rituals reveal a great deal about the human mind and the psychological features that people around the world have in common. Demetrius Zigalátas, welcome to Hidden Brain. Hi, Sankar. Thank you for inviting me.
Demetrius Zigalátas, you found yourself in the Spanish village of San Pedro, Mandrique, and you met a man named Alejandro. How did you first come into contact with him? So I was doing research on fire-working rituals in Greece. That was for my doctoral research.
And after that, I found out that there's another place in Europe where fire-working rituals are performed. And this is the small village called San Pedro and Rege. So I just showed up there. I started asking people if they knew about this ritual.
And as it turns out, it was a really big deal in that community. So one of the first people who others pointed me to was Alejandro. People called him in very high esteem in that village because he's one of the older star-workers. And he in fact has been doing this ritual for many decades.
So I understand that he was in his 70s when you were talking with him. Can you paint me a detailed picture of the fire-walking ritual as it was practiced in this small Spanish village? We are talking about a village of 600 inhabitants. That is in the middle of Primo's nowhere.
And yet, people have built this large, open amphitheater that can host 3,000 spectators. Wow. And they only use it once a year for the purposes of this ritual. So clearly, this is very important to them.
Other summer solstice, every June, people start gathering in the central square. They engage in all kinds of processions and other celebrations throughout the day. And in the evening, they all join hands and they form this human chain. And they start marching up the hill in Luxet towards that venue.
And once everybody takes their place, at exactly midnight, people start taking off their shoes. And they face a large pit of coals. This has been produced by two tons of unquit that has been burning for hours. And it forms this bed of glowing coals.
We actually measured the temperatures there at 1200 Fahrenheit. That's enough to melt aluminum. My gosh. They face with this bed of coals.
They take somebody on their back and they walk barefoot across it, on the burning fire. Wow. And this was true of Alejandro as well. He would carry someone across this bed of fire.
Correct. In fact, one time when I saw him carrying his niece, who was significantly larger than him, Alejandro is a tiny man. So he struggled to balance with all his soldiers. People offered to help him.
But then he just waved his hand and he went to him. You once asked Alejandro if he would ever stop engaging in this ritual. I want to play your clip of what he said in Spanish. Can you translate what he told the images?
He looked at me. He thought about it for a while. He says, well, I suppose that they will come. But when he does, he says, I will just not go up there.
And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, I cannot go there because if I do that, if I saw it without being able to do it, I would climb on the bell tower and jump off and kill myself. So the following year Alejandro got some news from his doctor. What was it that images?
I heard from Alejandro's son, Mamel, that his doctor told him he had detected some arrhythmia and his heart. And therefore he banned him from doing the ritual. But things took a dramatic turn the night. I was in the central square with his son preparing for the procession that would lead us to the bank.
And at some point Mamel pulled me out of the chain. I said, what's happening? Mamel says, come with me and you'll see. So he took me to his father's house and he announced, he said, Dad, I know you cannot do the ritual.
So I'm going to carry you through the fire. And Alejandro just looked at him for a few seconds. He hugged him and then they cried together. So we left the house and we walked towards the venue.
And indeed Mamel was one of the first persons to walk across the fire. He took off his shoes. He took his father on his back and he crossed the burning coals. At that point the crowd was ecstatic.
Everybody was cheering, his family rushed to hug him. But then suddenly Alejandro turned towards them and with a sharp gesture, he told them to stop. Everybody went completely silent. 3,000 people, you could hear a pin drop.
As Alejandro turned around facing the fire. And he just went ahead and crossed it again. You talked to Alejandro about his choice to endanger his heart against his doctors' advice. What did he tell you after us to make this?
It was actually not the first time I heard this from a fireworker. He said something like, my doctor said that if I do the firework, something terrible might happen to my heart. But does he know what will happen to my heart if I don't do the firework? It seems almost that there's a theme that shows up again and again in your research into rituals.
When you look at them from the outside, they can seem incomprehensible, bewildering, but seen from the inside, the people who practice these rituals really cherish them even when they carry significant costs. And in some ways that's what you were hearing from Alejandro, wasn't it? Absolutely, yes. Across all kinds of different contexts, they carry so much meaning that people consider them to be a fundamental part of who they are as individuals and an equally fundamental part of their collective identity, who they are as group members.
So we've looked at one example of a ritual that carried enormous physical risks. But of course rituals also carry other forms of risks and other costs. Tell us what pilgrims endure during the Kumbh Mela festival in India. Kumbh Mela is one of the most important Hindu pilgrimages in the world.
And this is arguably the biggest congregation of human beings in known history. Last time somebody counted, there were about 150 million people attending the festivities. It takes place every 12 years and it happens on the banks of four sacred rivers, the Ganges being one of them. And people might take several weeks to travel there from all parts of India and beyond.
And when they reach it, the festival lasts for a month. Some people actually stay for the entire month. And during that month, you can imagine, in such an incredibly crowded place, people live in tents. They are actually bathed in the river, they drink from the river, and the Ganges is possibly the most polluted river on earth.
So there's definitely high risk of infectious diseases spreading. It's very hot during the day, but it's freezing cold during the night. So this ritual is full of hearts. I mean, at a more prosaic level, you've also studied rituals that are just financially costly and many rituals fall under this category, certainly staying in a place like India.
There are many families in India who celebrate weddings by going into extreme debt. Can you talk about that, Determinatries? This is something that is actually very similar to what I've seen in my home country. I come from Greece, so in rural areas of Greece, certainly when I was younger, when I was a kid, I've seen many instances of people going into debt to finance their children's wedding.
In India, there's this local NGO, which estimated over 60% of all Indian households, they turn to money lenders in order to finance their children's weddings. And of course, they have to pay extortion and rates. And in many cases, they will sign contracts that get them into voluntary servitude over a period of years, so intensive labor to be able to pay those debts off. So hearing about these ordeals, people on the outside might wonder, why would anyone voluntarily go through such hardship?
And one thing you've done is actually ask participants that very question, and you've discovered a paradox when you ask someone like Alejandro or a pilgrim in the cummélé, why they do what they do? What do they tell you, Dimitri? I have hundreds, if not thousands of people, this question. Why do you do your rituals in general?
Or why do you do this particular ritual? And one of the most astonishing things that never seems to me is that even in the case of rituals that involve extraordinary material costs, physical efforts, physical risks, most people would just look at me and say, what do you mean? Why would you do our rituals? This is just what we do.
This is who we are. Who called this the ritual paradox? Unpack that idea for me. So the paradox is that, on the one hand, people attribute tremendous meaning and importance to those rituals.
Sometimes they will tell me this is the most important event of their lives. And yet, when I ask them why they do it, they very often cannot come up with an answer. So you had first-hand experience of what it was like to participate in one of these rituals when you were a small boy growing up in Greece. I understand when you were 80 years old, your dad took you on an important, let's call it an expedition.
Can you describe where he took you and what you saw? So this was a football stadium. And by football, I mean what the United States people call soccer, which in many parts of the world, my home country included can be an almost religious-like activity. People have very strong loyalty towards their team.
So at eight years old, I went into a stadium packed with 45,000 people. And I noticed that as soon as the game started, everybody jumped up and never sat down again. And what followed from that moment on was one of the most unbelievable experiences of my young life. People with thousands of flares and porches and fireworks and the entire stadium turning to this ball fire.
It really looked like a volcano. People jumping and chomping and jumping up and down and chomping. Lighting those flares, which of course meant that as soon as the game started, it had to be forced for several minutes just for the air to clear. And my father kept picking me up so I could, what's the game?
But I didn't even care about the game. All I cared about was all of those incredible collective rituals that were happening around me. So as I was hearing the story, Demetrius, I was sort of seeing the 80-year-old version of you, essentially becoming an anthropologist before our eyes, sort of observing all the people around you and asking why they were doing what they were doing. But it's also the case that you became a fan of the sport, but also of this particular team.
See, most people, they don't show up at the temple when they're 80 years old just because they had an internal yearning to worship. Typically, their parents take them. But it is through the act of participation itself that one becomes religious or becomes a fan that one gets bonded with this group of people. Because when people come together and they engage in all those kinds of ecstatic rituals, this conglomeration of individuals sees us to be that and suddenly becomes one unified group.
And even from the perspective of an 80-year-old looking at this group, that's exactly what it seemed like. It seems to be 45,000 individuals and it was simply one large, pulsating unity that was chanting and was jumping up and down together as if it was a single organism. And I was part of it. When we come back, the psychology of how and why rituals affect our sodiki.
You're listening to Hidden Brain, I'm Shankar Vedanta. When you study at National College of Ireland, you don't do it alone. From the moment you enroll to the day you graduate and beyond, we're with you every step of the way. At NCI, we're here to help you realize your potential, with our internationally recognized full and part-time courses in business, computing, psychology and education.
We offer online learning, great support and a state-of-the-art campus just five minutes from Connolly Station, National College of Ireland, with you every step of the way to find out more of it at nciol.ie. Most travel insurers see your lost bag as a lost bag, but VHI Multi-Trip sees the head melt, the lost party dress. Ugh. With coverage of all your trips all year from 63 euro, there'll be less melted heads and more melted ice cream.
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This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedandam. At the University of Connecticut, anthropologist Demitrius Zigalates has found that rituals exact significant costs in time, money, even pain and suffering from the people who practice them. Irrational economists might say it would make more sense for people to make sacrifices for activities that improve their lives in some tangible way.
But everywhere and in every age, including our own, people divert significant attention to seemingly ceremonial activities. Demitrius, you call this the Ritual Paradox from the outside, rituals seem pointless and yet they're experienced by participants as something truly vital. In your book, Ritual, How Seemingly Senseless Acts Make Life Worth Living, you say that it's a mistake to think of rituals as primarily being about what we do in the outside world. The real purpose of rituals is for us to hack into our own inner worlds?
Absolutely. The idea is that just because ritual does not have any immediate direct effects on the physical world, this does not mean that it has no impact at all. In fact, it has a huge impact on our internal world. The way we perceive ourselves, the way we feel, the way we connect with other people, and ultimately our well-being and our quality of life.
So one immediate question is why we need to do this, because after all, we are capable of introspection, we're capable of reflection. There are a lot of ways that we can talk to our internal selves. What is it about the challenges we face in life that prompt us to do things on the outside, things like walking across a bed of fire to change what's happening inside our own minds? Well, the simple answer here could be because it simply works.
Sometimes we don't really have to understand that a particular behavior helps us reduce anxiety or cope with grief or connect with other people. But visually it does so. So when we go out and we dance and sing with our friends, we don't stop to ask the question, why are we doing this? Isn't dancing pointless?
And yet there's a fundamental function to actually dancing or singing or celebrating or performing any kind of ritual together. One of the really interesting ideas that you and others explore is that there is something of a mismatch between the minds that have been handed down to us by evolution, our physical brain, and the challenges that we're often called to address in the actual world. And I'm not a fan of the idea that the brain is like a computer, the metaphor is not exact, but if you were to think about the brain as a computer, it's almost as if this computer was designed to solve a set of problems. But the problems have now changed in some dramatic way.
And we have a software patch that can essentially get this older computer to function in this newer environment. Is that the connection that you would make with rituals that rituals in some ways are functioning like a software patch? Yes, that's a good analogy, I think. And one example would be the way we handle stress and anxiety.
Stress is a useful thing. It's an adaptive response. It motivates our behavior. It motivates us to seek solutions, to avoid certain things that are stressful to us.
But in the modern context, we see that levels of anxiety are higher than ever. That's because our environment has changed, not our biology. We're living a life that is way faster than anything our ancestors were not experienced. We're living in social contexts where most of us, or many of us at least, live very far way removed from our social support networks, our family, our best friends.
We move around, we live with an unknown stranger. And all that can be very stressful. So by finding ways of soothing these kinds of anxieties and these kinds of pressures, we might be able to solve these new problems that our biology has not had time to solve. This is an old idea that goes all the way back to anthropologists called Bronzil Malinowski.
Malinowski noticed that in the Trapper and Islands, in the Pacific Ocean where he was doing his fieldwork, the local fishermen would perform a lot of rituals before going out to fish in the open sea, but not before going out to fish in the shallow waters of the lagoon. Now he's surmised that this was because fishing in the ocean is dangerous, it's stressful, and it's uncertain. You never know what you're going to catch. You never know if you're even going to come back alive, if you have to battle the waves and hunt sharks and whales.
And this is a theory that has been taught to transport the students for about a century, but it was very little evidence to support it. Within the last couple of decades, we now have tangible evidence that Rachel actually helps alleviate anxiety. One of these studies took place on the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius. Tell me about that experiment, Demetrius, and what you found.
For this study, we went into a small fishing village and there's a Hindu temple there. The local women will visit this temple frequently and they will perform these prayers. They consist of repetitive movements performed in front of several statues of the Hindu pantheon. And before going in there, we used an anxiety-inducing technique, so we asked them to think about natural disasters like cyclones and floods.
And this is very salient to this island because it's very often threatened by such natural disasters. And then we allowed them to do their rituals in their normal way. And we also had a control group who went into a secular space and spent the equivalent amount of time just sitting down. And afterwards, we measured their anxiety levels, both in terms of how they perceive their anxiety and in terms of what their body said, we measured heart rate variability, which is an indication of our body's ability to cope with stress.
And we found that performing this ritual actually helped people reduce their anxiety more than those in the control group. I'm wondering how this actually works inside our minds, Demetrius. How is it that rituals can actually soothe people's anxiety? What is it that they're doing, do you think?
So the idea that my colleagues and I are proposing here is related to the way our brain works. Our brain is not just a computational machine. It's a predictive machine. It makes active inferences about the state of the world.
Our brain does this in all kinds of contexts and all the time. This is a very useful cognitive architecture to have, of course. But one byproduct of that architecture, one side effect, is that when there's uncertainty in the world, where we cannot make accurate predictions, we experience anxiety. We think this is exactly where ritual comes in, because if ritual is anything, it is structure.
It is predictability. When I engage in a ritual, I know exactly what to do. I know exactly when to do it and how. And this gives my brain a sense of control.
And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether this sense of control is real or illusory, as long as it has tangible effects. And we do see that it does. There's been research showing that performing rituals doesn't just make people feel better. It can actually lead to better outcomes.
One study investigated the effect of a made-up ritual on people's performance in a stressful activity. Can you tell me what that study found in Demetrius? Yes, this was a study performed by Allison Brooks, who asked people to prepare in order to engage in a series of stressful tasks. Those were tasks like taking a maths test or participating in the public car Okey competition.
So the researchers asked participants, either perform an artificial ritual, which resembled a magical spell, or perform no ritual. The ritual was consistent in drawing a picture of Father Feeling right now and then sprinkling salt on the picture, counting out to five, and then virtually destroying the paper. What they found was that performing this type of ritual helped people actually perform better. So they evaluated the car Okey performances or the mathematical tests, and they saw that people were able to perform better, and of course not through some kind of magical causation.
When they looked at the mediating factors, they found that it was through the reduction of anxiety and an increased sense of control that they were able to improve their performance. So we looked at different ways in which rituals might help us address questions of uncertainty, questions of stress. Another problem of living that rituals address is the pain of loss and grief. Demetrius, can you help us understand why there are so many rituals associated with death and dying?
Every human society we've known has had elaborate burial rituals. Now, why is that? Well, this again has to do with the way our brain works. We are hyper-social animals, and as hyper-social animals, we have a number of particularly strong forms of attachment.
We see, for example, when young children are separated from their parents, they experience what we call separation anxiety. When lovers experience a breakup, they might go through this very painful period. And when we're looking from this perspective, we realize that the capacity to grieve may have stemmed from evolutionary adaptations, but grief itself is not adaptive. There's an obvious benefit to the childhood experience that's anxiety when separated from its mother, because they can cry for help.
But when we lose somebody because they're no longer with us, there's not much else we can do. So from that perspective, grief is not necessarily very adaptive. And to be able to cope with these debilitating emotions, such as the experience of loss and the fear of our mortality, every human culture has developed a set of rituals. And what do you think these rituals are doing?
I mean, is it the case that they're actually ameliorating our grief, channeling our grief in a new direction? What do you think the rituals are accomplishing you? They can make the process of separation from the deceased a little bit more grand. But it gives time to digest the fact that they're no longer with us.
And if you look at burial customs throughout the world, you will see a lot of those customs. They involve keeping the deceased in the house for one day, three days a week in the case of some tribes, even for a year. Another thing they do is that they help keep the deceased alive in our memories. So they now turn them into ancestors.
They turn them into beings with which we will interact in the future again through these periodic rituals, who will make offerings for them. And therefore, they provide a sense that they're still with us just in some different way. So we've looked at two areas where rituals can be very helpful in managing anxiety and managing grief. A third problem of living has to do with the challenges that come from living in groups, getting people to coordinate and cooperate with each other, especially as you point out, in modern societies where large numbers of people are living amongst strangers.
How do rituals help us rise to this challenge, Demetris? This is perhaps the biggest of all sounds for us, because we are a social species, but once again, we now live in conditions that are very different. So now we live in these very large societies of unknown strangers. And cooperation is always going to be a problem.
And this is why we have more collective rituals than any other animal in order to get people to feel more bonded and cooperate. For example, collective rituals might have people dress in similar ways. There are studies that show that when people appear to be similar, our brain makes inferences that they are indeed similar, because also in nature, people who look like us, they're more likely to be our relatives. Another way is to align our movements.
So we move in synchrony, we chant in synchrony. And again, there are studies that show that people who move in synchrony, they feel closer to each other, they are more rapport and they like each other more. And other ways to align our emotions when we feel the same thing. Again, we feel more connected, because who are the people that you feel the same things with?
Who are the people that you were born with and you will laugh and you will cry with? Typically, those are members of your family and your close friends. And by getting anonymous strangers to do those things together, rituals can create this sense of community and likeness. So we've looked at several ways in which rituals can produce social good, but any psychological force that is powerful enough to get people to walk over burning calls can also have bad outcomes.
I want you to listen to this news report from CBS News about a student's death in California. Good morning, Noah Domingo's blood alcohol level was more than four times the legal limit. The UC Irvine freshman was found unresponsive in the house behind me after a party in January. His father says Noah was taking part in a dangerous and longstanding fraternity ritual where Noah was compelled to guzzle a so-called family drink to become part of his big brother's family.
Do you just talk about the connection between the bonding power of rituals and the initiation rights we see at college fraternities? So these types of rituals, the very intense types of rituals, they actually do carry great risks. And these risks have to outweigh the costs. So if you think of the kinds of contexts in which these rituals would have been used, the site is that face more warfare, for example, they have more intense and instantization rituals.
And it is one thing to go through an instantization ritual that involves a lot of pain and suffering, even if you're doing this with the elders of your community or cohort, everybody you grew up with. And that's a ritual that has been performed for a thousand years, so there's a lot of trial and error going on. But when we take those rituals out of context, and we perform them for no good reason, perhaps for fun, they can become something very different. It's a very different thing to take that ritual out of context, tweak it, and try to use it to get the same benefits in an entirely different setting.
One of the things that I find fascinating about your work is that in recent years you've started to use technology to assist you in understanding how rituals work. And one of the forms of technology you're using are heart monitors. So using heart monitors, you've collected data during the San Pedro firewalkers. You found something extraordinary in the heart monitor data when it came to what was happening in different people's bodies at the very same time.
What did you find in interest? So this project started from hearing some of the things that people were telling me in San Pedro. Again and again, I heard them say the same thing. They say that when you go out there, there are 3,000 people, but you feel like one.
They said things like, I cannot put into words, they would say, but there's this feeling of togetherness. Like our emotions are aligned. And this to me sounded very much like what the earlier anthropologists said said. And Mel Durkheim described this feeling of collective reference lessons.
He described it as if there was this jolt of electricity running through a group of people that congregated and turning them from a group of unrelated individuals into this cohesive group. So I started thinking how do we actually measure this feeling of oneness, this ineffable feeling of emotional alignment and that my participants described, but nobody has actually demonstrated. So what we did is that we put those monitors on fireworkers, but also members of the group who were just watching and even unrelated strangers, what been there just as curious tourists to watch the festival. What we found is that during the ritual their heart rates began to synchronize to a really impressive degree.
In fact, they were more synchronous during the ritual where some of them are walking on fire, some are watching, some are preparing for their own walk. They were more synchronous during that time than the time they were marching up the hill in synchrony. But we also find that this effect only holds for group members because we also mapped the social network of the village. So we knew who was related to home and to what degree, whether by blood or by friendship.
And we see that we can actually use the degree of social proximity to predict the degree of physiological synchrony. So this is a fundamental social phenomenon. When we come back in an increasingly rational world that looks at suspicion at anything that's max of superstition, how do we harness the psychological power of rituals? You're listening to Hidden Brain.
I'm Shankar Vedanta. When you study at National College of Ireland, you don't do it alone. From the moment you enroll, to the day you graduate and beyond, we're with you every step of the way. At NCI, we're here to help you realize your potential, with our internationally recognized full and part-time courses in business, computing, psychology and education.
We offer online learning, great support, and a state-of-the-art campus just five minutes from Connolly Station, National College of Ireland, with you every step of the way. To find out more, visit nciol.ie. Most travel insurers see your lost bag as a lost bag, but VHI Multi-Trip sees the head melt, the lost party dress. Ugh.
With coverage of all your trips all year from 63 euro, there'll be less melted heads and more melted ice cream. VHI Multi-Trip. That's the VHI Just Travel Insurance. Terms and conditions apply at prices for adults 1864.
VHI Healthcare, Dark Trading is VHI Healthcare is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland and is tied to Collins and Insurance, your associate for VHI Multi-Trip Travel Insurance. This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. Anthropologist Dimitri Zigalathas is the author of Ritual, how seemingly senseless acts make life worth living.
He's founded over a very long span of time. Groups of humans in different parts of the world have independently honed in on the basic elements of rituals that make them effective in manipulating our inner thoughts and feelings. Dimitri's you found that rituals always display an important characteristic, one that sets them apart from other actions and you call this causal opacity. What do you mean by this idea and why is such causal opacity important to the performance of rituals?
This is one of the key characteristics of ritual. In fact, they go to the very definition of ritual. Rituals are those actions that have to be performed repeatedly and they have some symbolic value, they're treated as special and yet they either don't have any specific goal or there's no visible connection between the actions that one undertakes to a typical and the goal itself. So if I take a shower in order to cleanse myself, there's obviously utility to this.
But if I perform a purification ritual that involves perhaps rubbing mud on my hair, there's no clear connection, there's no obvious connection between the actions that I'm performing and the outcome that I'm seeking. And this is very important because by virtue of the fact that ritual actions are arbitrary, that means that they can now take any kind of symbolic meaning and this makes them very efficient group markers because if we are the group that rubs mud on our hair to perform our purification rituals, then we can be fairly certain that no other group does it and that allows us to discern those who don't belong and also to discern the members of our own group who are more likely to cooperate with. I love this idea that in some ways rituals transform everyday actions to the realm of the symbolic and in some ways the causal opacity might look like a bug but in fact it's actually not a bug, it's a feature. Exactly.
They're actually laboratory studies that have looked at this ability of ritual to make things special. So when they showed people different types of drinks being prepared beverages, in one case the beverage was served in a pretty straight up way, in the other condition, it was served up in a ritualized way. So perhaps somebody would bow to it or turn it around three times before consuming it. And then when the ass participants switched drink they would prefer, when they asked them which drink thought was better, when they asked them which drink they thought was special, they all picked the ritualized drink.
So in addition to this opacity regarding cause and effect images, you've noticed that rituals tend to have three qualities, repetition, rigidity and redundancy. Can you explain what these are? So Ritzel obviously involves a lot of repetition once a day, once a week, once a month, once in a lifetime, but it's always repeated. But even within each particular ritual performance, there tends to be a lot of repetition.
So sometimes people will chant on 108 times. People will count the rosary and perform repetitive prayers for hours. By rigidity, we refer to the fact that ritual actions must be performed in a specific way. There are actually studies that so that if you try to intervene and change the way a ritual is practiced, people get morally upset.
Now this has actually happened historically. FDR moved things giving by a week, so that the holiday period could be extended and people would spend more money. And people are morally appalled, most states actually refused to enforce it, and they refer to it as frank's giving, and it caused an uproar. And finally, the third aspect is redundancy.
And this refers to the fact that rituals go well beyond what is functionally required. What I mean by this is that maybe 20 seconds of washing your hands would be sufficient to keep them clean. But in something like a purification ceremony, the relevant rights may go on for hours, sometimes even for days. So besides the fact that rituals have these characteristics, you've conducted studies that find that when people are experiencing setbacks or anxiety or stress, their actions sometimes naturally take on some of the characteristics of rituals.
Can you explain the study for me, please? We brought people inside the laboratory, and we wanted to see whether inducing anxiety in that context would lead them to perform more ritualized behaviors. And what we found, we used motion trackers to quantify the movement of these people, and as they became more anxious based on the task that they had to perform, their behaviors spontaneously became more ritualized. So they started performing the same actions again and again and again.
And I think what that tells me is that when you think about how rituals evolved, it may well be that they actually evolved through these mechanisms where people were naturally turning to some of these systems in moments of stress and anxiety, and then over time, those behaviors get codified. That's exactly what I think that happened, that ritual evolved as a sort of mental technology that helped individuals cope with all kinds of anxieties, and then was co-opted by groups, by cultures who then transformed into a very important social technology. We discussed earlier how when people are engaged in a ritual, they often feel as if they are part of a larger organism. You felt this way when you were in the soccer stadium with your dad, the people at the fire-walking ritual in Spain felt the same way.
Is the reverse true as well? When people do things in synchrony, does it change the way they think it feels? Yes, absolutely. This is one of the reasons why rituals are so powerful.
Our brain simply in first that if we move in the same way as other people, then we are more like those people, and we feel more important with those people. This has been demonstrated by different studies, one of which we did in laboratory where we induce synchrony. So we have people move either in tandem or with slightly variations. You can imagine this as performing a dance, either with somebody who's a good dancer or with somebody who's a bad dancer and sometimes forgets the steps or makes mistakes.
And we found that when people moved in synchrony, their endorphin levels were elevated. Now the release of endorphins is related to social bonding. And not only that, but we found that they liked each other more, they perceived their partners to be more cooperative, and they trusted each other more. And we see this not just in self-reports, but also in their behavior in a trust game, where they actually have to trust each other with real money that they could be put in their pockets.
And of course, this now makes perfect sense why you would have so many rituals built around music and chanting, especially in group settings. Absolutely. Dancing and singing and something goes to some of the most primordial ways of human beings to connect. And you find them in all kinds of contexts and especially ritualized contexts.
One of the things that you say is that high arousal rituals that stimulate many of our senses at the same time, that these high arousal rituals can produce some of the most powerful effects on our emotional states and memory. What do you mean by this image? One way in which they do this is by creating these powerful episodic memories that become a part of our autobiographical self, the very sense of who we are as a person. So some of your episodic memories may involve the first kiss or the time you find yourself in battle or the time you're a house burned to the ground.
So there can be some of the most important moments of your life. And those moments typically involve a lot of emotional arousal. People use this by putting people into situations where they exhibit very high arousal and they do it collectively. So when I share the same exciting moments, when I cry with you, when I laugh with you, when I'm in danger or in pain together with you, it feels like we are essentially brothers.
One of the implications of this, of course, is that the more important the moment, the more extravagant the ritual might need to be in order to mark that moment. Because of course moments that are engineered to have this heightened sense of ritual significance are going to be seen as more legitimate, more important, more emotionally salient in our minds. Exactly. And this is why, for example, you see that state rituals tend to be very extravagant.
And in fact, particularly state rituals that have to do with leaders who have less popular rencimization, leaders like kings and dictators. They tend to have more elaborate, more lavish, more flamboyant rituals. That's because those rituals add to that sense of authority that they so desperately need. I wonder, Dimitri, if you could tell me about one particular night, when you got to experience the power of rituals firsthand, you're conducting field-walking in Mauritius and you'd been living in a coastal village for a number of weeks, preparing to observe an annual fire-walking ceremony.
I wonder you were standing near the temple when you noticed some of the local men engaged in lively discussion and every so often they would look in your direction and eventually one of them, the temple president, called you over. What did he say? So this was Prakas, the local temple president. And when he saw me there, he said, Dimitri, you've been living with us for how long now?
And I said, a couple of months, and he said, right, so you're one of us now. And I immediately knew that he just hadn't called me there to tell me that. And I said, well, I don't want to pretend to be one of you. I'm here to learn about your traditions.
And he just cut me off. And he said, well, so you should also do the fire walk. I was stunned by this request, because in other parts of the world where it has studied fire-walking rituals, this would not have been allowed. This was something only for the locals.
People had either drew their answers to the village or were part of this religion. My first reaction was to politely decline. I said, I don't want to pretend to be one of you. It's very important for me to be able to document this ritual.
So on that day, I'll have to make sure it's to take notes. And Prakas cut me off again. And he said something like, if God wants you to do it, you will do it. To which I responded, trust me, Prakas, God does not want me to walk on fire.
All right, so then you're wearing your researcher hat and you're watching the fire ritual unfold. Tell me what happens next. So I had permission to be inside the enclosure where all the fire workers were, because I want to take photos. And I was looking through my camera lens, so I didn't know what was happening around me.
And the ritual itself is so captivated that I was completely immersed in this. The smells and the color of the fire and the chants, everybody's something almost up to you. As people were crossing the fire one after the other, the emotions in their faces. At some point, Prakas stopped me on the shoulder.
And I looked up and I said, what? He said, stand up. And I stood up and he said, turn around. And I turned around and I realized that the entire village was looking on me.
I was facing the fire and everybody expected me to walk across it. What did you do to me? At that point, there was nothing else to do. I obviously I did not want to insult my hosts.
It would also be humiliating to back out at that very last moment. All I had time to say was, please hold my camera. And then I turned and I faced the crowd. And to be honest, taking that first step was very scary.
But once you've committed, your body just takes you across. Now you would someone who knew that the temperature of the calls could range from 750 degrees to 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. Was that going through your mind as you stepped onto the fire? Of course, when you're faced with a fire like that, you cannot be unaware of the fact that you're walking on a surface that is hot enough to melt metal.
And you actually feel it. You feel yourself. Your face is getting roasted by that heat. And I've seen people go across that fire.
I've seen the sparks fly off their feet. I was wondering whether the same thing was going to happen to me. I have seen people get hurt through the fire working with me. So I thought it certainly crossed my mind.
But I just took that first step. And just like people had described to me, your mind is completely empty. There's nothing but you and the fire. When you're walking through the calls, you're going to this mode that some researchers have called flow.
And in that state, your peripheral vision almost disappears. So you don't see anyone. It's just you and the fire. But there was one step in particular where I just knew this was going to leave a blister.
So there was probably something sharp under my foot. And it hurt. And it did leave a blister afterwards. But when this adrenaline kicks in, you don't really worry about the pain.
That's the last thing that you feel. What did it feel like as you got to the other side, Demetris? The first thing that happens is that it's as if a cloud is lifted. So suddenly you're aware of your surroundings again.
But what I also felt was this jolt of exhilaration that lasted not just for a few minutes, but just for a few hours, but in fact for several days. And I was amazed at all those powerful feelings and emotions that came through such a brief moment of participation. Now that got me wondering, if I, as an external observer, as an anthropologist, as a visitor, as a guest in this community, if I come to experience such strong emotions through this brief act of participation, how much more powerful would that be for a person who grew up in the community, for the insiders, for whom this ritual has a deep meaning connected to a thousand-year-old tradition. Demetris Sicholatas is an anthropologist at the University of Connecticut.
He's the author of Ritual, How Seemingly Senseless Acts Make Life What Living. Demetris, thank you for joining me today on Hidden Brain. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you.
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