Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource you to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. What do you do when leadership gets hard and life that's even harder? Welcome to the Life Group Leader podcast where we acquit you, our life group leaders, to shepherd your people well, especially in the middle of real life.
I'm Sam Smith, the discipleship director for Life Groups and the men's ministry. And today Scott Kim, the discipleship pastor for the Irvine campus sits down with his longtime friend, Al, a pastor, a mentor, a faithful leader who served in ministry for decades. He talks about his faith journey, the lessons he's learned, leading in different ministry rules, and the unexpected road of walking through brain cancer. While still leading others with honesty and hope, if you're a leader navigating trials burn out or uncertainty, this conversation is for you.
Let's jump in. Thanks a bit here. Of course, my honor and my privilege to be here. As I was thinking about this recording, I was thinking that we've known each other for almost 30 years.
Yeah, which is crazy. We grew up in the same neighborhood in Cerritos. Kind of went to rival schools. You went to Cerritos High, I went to Whitney High.
Obviously, my school is better. Yeah, so we're the nerdies, the cool school. But we didn't meet until we both went to UCLA. Correct, that's correct.
For the later years of our college years. And then we were roommates. Yeah. Was it after we graduated?
It was, right? I think so. I think so, maybe. A little ladder part.
Yeah. In our young adult years and we're in our 20s, and we live in palms, beautiful palms California. For those who are sheltered and have lived in Orange County, otherwise, palms is near Culver City. Correct.
Santa Monica County. Yeah. Those are some great years. Yeah.
But we've known each other for quite a long time. Yeah. And so you should consider honor that. I'll tell your friend.
I am still. I am still. Very honored, man. You showed me the roles.
Show me what it means to be a cool, cool pastor. Cool pastor. You got to write that book. But man, hey Albert, let's start with your story.
Okay. How you briefly came to know Jesus, your journey into ministry. Sure. What shape your passion for leadership along the way as well?
Well growing up, I didn't grow up Christian in my home. And so my family during my young years were either agnostic or just didn't want to bother with religion. At times my grandmother, who still lived that time, influenced the family a lot. And she would try to force us to go to Catholic Mass.
But that just didn't catch anyone with me or my family. In my teenage years in high school, my younger brother became a Christ follower. As close friends were Christ followers and they tried to recruit him. But then they brought him out to multiple church services and he gave his life to Christ at a harvest crusade.
Bright here at Angel State. Wow. That's a good idea. And I had a lot of questions after that because we didn't grow a Christian.
We didn't have a Christian background. No one in our family was Christian. So you and relatives. So I had a lot of questions like, what's this talk about death and the cross?
Who is this character? Because I didn't have any context because I didn't grow up as Christ follower. And how come people are always seeing? And I tried to go to church a few times, but it just didn't make sense to me.
It confused me a bit because I was talking about sins, a lot of Jesus, sacrifice and spirit. So at the time I didn't follow Christ. It was kind of mysterious to me. I was a little bit confused.
But then when I went to college, the question got stronger and deeper. So I thought more about faith. What does it look like? And what does Christianity mean amongst all the other religions as well?
And then I took a trip to Seoul, South Korea in between my freshman and sophomore years in college. And that would be a game changer because I had a lot of world to be fun there too at the beginning. Then I still had questions that remained leaner to my mind about faith. What's bigger than just my own life?
I then met a person named Charles who wanted to reach out to me and he was great with his care and his questions to me. He would ask me questions like about the meaning of life. What's this all for? What are my thoughts on religion?
What's the purpose of church? It made me think deeper about life's purpose and meaning. By the conclusion of our meetings, which was about five or so meetings, I was hungry for a Savior. And he did a great job of sharing with me honestly.
He was very honest, very vulnerable. And at one point he led me through the center square and I saw her following Christ. And when I returned to California, I started looking for a church and I found one meeting in Brea. There were some connections I had.
Yeah, and that's incredible. And how did you, so you went to UCLA and how did you start coming out to that church plan that we're both part of? Yes, yes. I think I came out because it was in the latter part of my college career.
I had a church I went to but I was involved. But it wasn't really populated that much with college students. And so when I heard about the campus ministry, I checked it out. And I knew Dave Park, because he went to the same high school.
And so I checked it out and then I met you and Paul, you and others that were so great to me. And that's when I think my faith really took flight. I now had a community that I had friends with, close friends with like yourself. And I got the college I was attending and the campus initiative, I was involved.
I just got more and more involved in the church and that really helped shape my Christian wall. Yeah. I have so many fond memories of those college and medical years. And then we quickly got involved with like the serving.
I was leading the worship ministry. You had a huge heart for college students, you became like the college master. And I still remember like you had this huge hunger like appetite for leadership. Yes.
We make fun of you sometimes quoting John Maxwell all the time. It was on the podcast of John and I went to a conference, I don't remember the name of it. But then I heard John Massel speak about his laws of leadership and that impacted me a lot. Because I read the book, 21 There Futable Laws of Leadership.
That shaped how I do ministry, how I raise a leader, not on disciple. It has laws like the law of magnetism. Who you are is who you attract and that was big for me to kind of see it in that way. Very practical, not just kind of went to the holy mountain.
You heard a sound they know. She was Scott as your leader. I hire him though. So that shaped me and I want to become a better leader and help people follow Jesus.
And then later on I did find out the speaker was John Maxwell. And I started reading his book and other leadership type books. I mean I told you the story but I still remember when I was leading worship, leading our team. I made so many mistakes, I felt so many times.
And I remember that though. One of my team members came up to me and said, it gave me the book, John Maxwell's book, developing the leader. And I think another book called Failing Forward. It's not even a thing.
He said, you got to grow. That was my 20s and I was so humble. But that's when I was really hungry just to grow as a leader. And just in just in God released the potential.
And so you serve as a college pastor. Yeah, I started as that. What was that experience like for you? Yeah.
We had UCLA students I think and Pepperdine students. And we started at USC. CSUN. And USC.
CSUN too. You know what I learned? Why I knew that leadership is a gift. You know it's a privilege.
It's an honor. It can be very difficult. I really love the students and my team. And which I've still been grateful for.
I'm so good with you. And starting new ministries was exciting. You know like USC and Pepperdine. But with each new endeavor, there came challenges such as like how to keep a team sticking and connected when we were growing so rapidly.
Yeah. You know you're growing with numbers. And but you got to think of kind of in some sense how to shape and care for the existing congregants but sometimes trying to expand its new territory. Yeah.
And so that was a challenge. And I was really busy but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. So around that time is when I tried to incorporate the principles of leadership I was learning.
And I met with mentors like Mike Amoto. You know who you know as well. And having trustworthy mentors is an important part of our leadership. You know if you don't have mentors we even go to.
I mean of course we have Christ and hosts there. But I learned a lot about soul care during that time meeting with some of these mentors that I I had and that helped me a lot. And I learned that the most important principle of trying to ensure that my own walk with Christ was still the priority. Even in the midst of business or difficult times or good times that my life line still Jesus Christ and I must stay connected to him.
And also I was learning some stuff about self care which at the time before I really hadn't heard much about self care. But that was really important to me and how to have a long lasting healthy relationship with God and also with ministry with people. That was important. Yeah.
Man as you know here at Mariners we have you know God's moving in our 20s and 30s. Yeah. Young adults and we have a ton of young adult life groups and leaders that are listening into this. And so I still remember when you were leading the college and young adults back then like that whole idea of self care and investing into the spiritual life, the formation of our leaders was so meaningful.
Yeah. And as our church was growing back then we were part of a church plant and campus ministry kind of thing. But we're seeing that happen exponentially here at Mariners. But as it grows like we need to grow in our house.
Yes. Our connection with Jesus. Yeah. Our connection encouraged.
Yeah. Whether busy or slow or happy or sad or good times are bad. Our priorities still. They connected.
Yeah. And then from there you moved on to serving in a different church. Yeah. And that was really hard to see you venture off and I know you were not that hard for me.
Yeah. I'm out of here. It was tough to be. It was tough to be.
But I think it was the right. You served as a community life pastor at a church in Eagle Rock called Christian Assembly Church. Yeah. different kind of role for you, but what did you learn about the discipleship and leadership serving in that capacity?
Yeah. Well, I got hired as community life pastor. And so community life pastors main role was to help people connect with one another mainly through life groups and a membership type class. I'm kind of like a rooted.
Yeah, I got. And the role shaped me in a deep way is to keep first things first and connect with people to help them follow Christ together. So life groups became a staple for me. And then trying to help people connect to a group that makes sense whether by where they live or by their demographic.
So I learned a lot and I helped so I helped also start a new service. So in Eagle Rock, the campus, there's not much land there. Yeah, I noticed that. Yeah.
And so but they smartly the leadership smartly bought property that became available. And they would throw out dealers even before they heard a place might go up for sale. So we had two sides of the street we called the south side, the bigger side, the main sanctuary and all the north side which is a small sanctuary which they bought. And so I helped start the new service in the north sanctuary, which is a small small place, small place.
And I got to a service group under my leadership and my team that I had developed in. And that was really important for me to understand ministry still about people and connecting with people. Trying to remember people's names. I used to write people's names I met first time on the bulletin and try to remember those names.
And that was an important part of my ministry. And the church was pretty large at the time. You know, had a few thousand people and it was growing. So it was important for me to keep trying to keep things still small in my own mind, not to think of like I'm in a church of the next number of people.
But I want to know like, what does that? Well, I know Scott Scott camp went to Whitney. And so trying to do that was important to me and trying to make the service feel special like and tighten it, you know, even though the church overall was pretty big, you know, so that was a critical part in my my ministry journey. You know, and then I was asked to become the executive pastor, which was not my mind, which I never thought I would entertain in my life, you know.
But after praying and conversations, I accepted the role and it was certainly was a whirlwind for me, you know, but it was exciting. And I had great people around me and great teams that we helped build. And then I, you know, I just had to really also rely on Jesus and the Holy Spirit as I was doing something new. And then, you know, I had to hire pastor suit, you know, and help something new for me hiring.
And so I had to really rely on the Holy Spirit to guide my path, and in my supervision, my management and even hiring. Yeah, that's great. But you've had a lot of different roles and responsibilities. Yeah.
How long were you at Christian assembly church was a 16 year? I think it was close to 15 years. Wow. Yeah.
And then the midst of all that. Yeah, you, you face the sudden use of your brain cancer. Yes. And I can't imagine how overwhelming that's been for you.
Yeah, your family. Can you just share what that journey has been like and what how you and your family have just leaned on God and community through it all. Yeah. So I had left Christian assembly before I found out about my tumor, my tumor and so it was the right decision to leave.
And I'm certainly grateful for all the friends and the network with the young assembly. And but after much prayer with this and discussion with my family friends and mentors, I decided to lead ultimately. It was not easy to do, but we just learned that with it was the right thing to do. And I still have close relationships from that community.
And they have been a great blessing to me over the past year and they've reached out to me as they found out by my cancer. So they've really, really good to me. And and then I took a break when I had to go through my treatment, you know, and but my family, especially my wife Grace, they really supported me well. And I couldn't have made it through without Grace or my family and gracious strength and faith in Christ kept me really going can be positive, you know, and God has been faithful and provided for our needs time after time, you know, whether he places to stay friends such as you've got who reached out to me.
And and they friends made us kneel and and they some visited and prayed for us like yourself. And so I had a lot of support, which I'm grateful for. Yeah. And I've learned a lot more about how to identify with those who are really ill and suffering and still trying to walk with Jesus and walk with Jesus no matter good times or bad times or high load.
You know, I learn more about that, you know, in a deeply deeper way because my own journey, you know, so man, in our life groups in in our faith journey, like we go through valleys, we go through tough times and as much as it's been hard to see you go through this journey in Christ God that you know, God's helped you and through all that you've gone through so before your sport to yeah, I mean, it's caused me to pause now and to think about like what really matters in this life, this life, this brief life that God's given to us, you know, and how to really take hold of what counts and relationships and the friendships and you know, we've there's been a gap in our friendship because we've been so busy with the industry. And assuming a different churches, but I think over the past couple years, I spent the time when like relationships is is everything. Yeah, like she would gone or friends or family. And yeah, so thank you out for for just being a good friend.
And it's been fun to get with your family. It's not been that long. No, it's been a lot of us. We get to go to the past weekend.
Oh, you now we both go to Mariners as well. Right. And yes, I'm right here in your living room in the city of Orange doing this podcast with you. Mariners has been a really important, you're hardly turning as well.
Yeah, or us to find a new place to worship and in a different way too, because I'm not getting like hired there. I'm even for John Mariners, but it's a really solid church. And I know you and your wife and a few others who I'm just grateful for. And Mariners is a really beautiful place.
Yeah, man. Any last words of encouragement to our listeners, our mostly life group leaders and coaches. Yeah, maybe my mom. Yeah.
You know, I'm okay. I'm gonna. It's Korean for mom, by the way, because I just hear them on. Yeah, no, not my mom.
But you know, for small groups and are are not easy. Yeah, what I mean by that is leadership is not easy and can be difficult because why? Because people can be difficult and not easy. But it's worth it.
It's worth it. It's worth the times of trial. And and she didn't maybe possibly he did a conversation. Because without people, there really is no kingdom.
God. Now, of course, Jesus leaves the way. But there's a reason why Jesus passes disciples to lead when he departed. You know, and so my encouragement to leaders out there listening to this is, you know, sheep, faith, alive.
Remember who your Savior is. It's not ministry. It's Jesus. Jesus is your pastor as well.
And and he's a great high priest. And he's coming back again. And he also gave you gave us those who call them Christian is Holy Spirit. So you have enough to lead and and don't feel like you're going all alone.
So once you feel like you're going all alone and things get tough, you can easily burn out. And Jesus wants to want that. Jesus wants a bundle life for all of us, especially those who are leaders because without leadership, there's no where to go. You need a leader.
And so that's my encouragement to leaders out there. You don't rely on divine and and remember who your Savior is and what the priority is. The priority is that's been the same since she has came to stay connected to Jesus Christ. Yeah.
That's so good, Albert. I knew this was going to be a good conversation. And she is our pastor. He's our leader.
Absolutely. And thanks, Shout for this time. My joy, my honor. Thank you for coming and recording this with me.
Awesome. And I'll see you next weekend. Yes. Where's the next weekend or two weekends from now or something?
I don't know. And it's some kind of here. We're gonna get together right here with all the families. We're in this living room.
Yeah. Alright, buddy. Get the man. Thank you, Scott.