Hello and welcome to Vergast, the flagship podcast of the Apple Homepad. Hopefully. I'm Jennifer Patterson-Touy and on today's show I'm joined by Andrew O'Hara, a writer and video producer for Apple Insider and host of the Smart Home Insider Podcast. With Apple's full hardware event right around the corner, we're going to talk about the Apple Home hardware rumours and whether the long-awaited, hotly anticipated Apple Homepad slash Hub slash Smart Display will finally make Apple Home great. Again, we'll rank the top rumours that we think are likely to become reality and talk about the ones we are most excited to get into our homes. But first, here's a look at everything that's happening
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Welcome, Andrew. Thanks for joining me. Really excited to dive into this topic one near and dear to both of our hearts. One we've talked about a lot in the past. I know, but this time it feels more real. Like, it's like things are happening now.
It is. It is. Things are happening. Apple Home is happening. Hopefully, fingers crossed.
But just to kind of set the stage for listeners who are not including on the smart home. Andrew, can you just give me a brief rundown of what Apple Home is? I mean, Apple really jumped in the smart home space. It's been more than 10 years now when they first launched HomeKit. And it was kind of pitched as a very secure version of the smart home. Because in the early days, you had a ton of Amazon devices that were just getting
rubber stand certifications that were brought with security issues and things like that. It's a connected to Amazon. Yes. And the A word assistant that we won't say. There were so many concerns around stuff like that. Apple came out with its own version
of the smart home kit. And they even had, at the beginning, you needed a specific hardware chip that you had to buy from Apple, which not only slowed things down in acquiring these chips, but then also made things more expensive because you had to buy hardware components from Apple as part of the 5 program. And it was very secure. It made all that really nice. And it is a little bit more lenient with that as Apple figured out how to do much of the same stuff through just software. But it has grown up so much then. HomeKit became a large part
of the framework for matter, the open standard now, including the pairing process and onboarding process and all of that. And in today's version of the smart home, it does support matter alongside the other major ecosystems, at least to some degree. There's little bits of inconsistencies there, like with cameras. But for the most part, Apple still kind of sticks with where they were. There's a lot, there's many more accessories now. It works similar to the other smart home
ecosystem, but privacy, security, all of that is still very front and center with Apple Home. I mean, even cameras, like until iOS 27, all these launch, all the AI processing is done locally on your Apple TV or your home pod, anything like that. So they've really put that as kind of their big push in the smart home space. And as we talk about stuff in this episode, I think that's going to be a kind of a common topic. Big differentiator, really, from the other major platforms, at least. But what is the one
thing that Apple Home has really been lacking over the years? There's been many things. But the one thing that is very relevant to today, I know you've been excited for for a long time, is a way to control your smart home without using your phone and without using your voice. So they have been behind in this. They have not had a smart display. And this
is the thing that has been rumored for like three years now, at least. And we're honestly surprised they didn't, this didn't come to the force sooner, because Apple has been really lagging behind Amazon and Google here who have had smart displays for years at this point. And I know that from your perspective as being a sole, solely Apple Home user, you've been quite jealous of the Nest hubs and the Echo shows, right? Absolutely. Yeah. What kind of help? What would make it useful to you to have a smart display, do you
think? There's a lot of them. And obviously, so I broadened out. I'm not even now that matter is as much nicer to play with with with multiple ecosystems. I do have a Samsung smart thing set up. I do have, I like one Amazon thing, but I don't even leave that plugged in, but it
exists here in the house. And I do have like the, I can't even think of what it's called, but the Nest Max, the Google smart display, I have one of those as well. And I really like the displays. I even have like the UFE-E10, which is kind of like, you know, their version of a smart display. But I like that kind of just central home point for all of your devices, an easy way to control things, see your cameras without having, like you said, to pull out a phone or a tablet. If you walk in, I just want to be able to control something, just
make it really easy to gain access to all of those things as well as other relevant information. I think it makes obviously perfect sense because we've seen with other products to include your smart home controls along with your daily necessities, like weather, calendar, things like that. So to combine those things into a similar or complete form factor is what I've been wanting. I want what all these other ecosystems have had for years. But with Apple's magic touch on it. And I think as we talk about some of the rumors, like Apple
has some really cool little tricks that it does that is going to make this extra compelling to me compared to some of the other ones that have been out there for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Well, this is, as you can probably tell, this is the one
that we are both most excited about, I think. Who are you in the ranking? I know I've ruined the ranking. Sorry. But in terms of likelihood, I'm on the fence a little bit on this one. But yes, okay. So we have a Vergast Ranko
and it's going to help us rank the seven Apple home hardware rumors in terms of the most likely to be in our homes next week. And also, and then in terms of which ones maybe just be vaporware if they end up in number seven. So, okay. So we, I think, sure, let's start with the smart display because that really is, as we said, the one that we're most excited about. Honestly, this is a really big lift, I think, for Apple. I think we have
to do something really new here. And the rumors have been kind of all over the place. I mean, there's, there's been a little consistency, but there's also just sort of been like, oh, it's going to have MagSafe. Oh, it's going to be removable. Oh, it's going to be a home pod with a screen attached to it. What do you think? What do you think we're going to
get? And what do you actually want this device to look like? Basically, what I'm expecting is a seven inch display based on a lead is like Bloomberg leaks. It sounds like it's going to be like that seven inch side tablet on top of a half dome size. So kind of like have a home pod or it's going to look like, you know, the iMac G4 back in the day. I'm essentially, you know, a little seven tablet on top of a
dome. I think that is very, very likely. There seems like there's going to be two versions of this. I could see that happening of it being wall mountable versus the other one. And when they said rumors about like MagSafe, that could just be essentially just means magnetic. I could see them doing some sort of like wall mount version that you screw on
and then just kind of snaps onto your wall that you could still pull off and charge or something like that to make it happen. Yeah, that's a whole other thing. But I'm very curious at how Apple makes a wall mount work because I cannot imagine Apple asking people to do any sort of wiring. Installation is a big thing. Yeah, it's not going to do that.
So I'm guessing it's going to be probably battery powered or with a cable that drags down. And then we're going to get third party options from like Belkin or something that will allow you to do like an in wall wiring kit for those who are like extra ambitious to pull it off. But I do think it'll be roughly seven size. There'll be a tabletop version and some sort of wall version of it. I don't think that we're going to get any sort of app store at the beginning. My guesses are going to get a bunch of the Apple apps like Safari, news,
home, calendar reminders, all of those in time. Yeah, of course, all of that kind of stuff. Like an iPad basically. But with a different interface. Yeah, it's going to be some sort of kind of like an automation of like standby mode and Apple TV is what I'm going to imagine kind of like a combination of those interfaces. Because we see things like the screen state
interface for Apple TV that looks like it's destined for this device with a swipe up and changing them similar with control center how it just slides over or slides down. It looks like it would be perfect on something like this. And it's also this new operating system is supposedly based on TVOS. So it would make sense there. But I don't think we're going to get a full fledged app store. But I think that is part of the brilliance of this. I
had been saying this and now this like latest leak in the Mac OS 26 7RC has seemingly confirmed what I've been saying for like a year now, which is that Apple is going to take its widget and live activities interfaces that they brought to the Mac and put it on this. That makes sense. You can already put any of your iOS widgets and live activities from your phone on your Mac. And it's not running anything, you know, on your Mac. I think it can do the same thing here. And with that, combined with all the app intents and interactive widgets that it's
been able to do, you're essentially going to get apps. But developers would have to do nothing on day one to more or less make their things work. And I was looking through all of my stuff recently. So knows just launched live activity with complete playback control. That could show up on your start. You could have full Sonos control on this day one. All of the major
smart home brands already have very robust like control widgets that you could use. Yufy, Switch but Akara Amazon has one Google Home has one of course Apple Home. So all of those to control all of your third party ecosystem things would be on this. Yeah. Counters every calendar company has their own fantastic owl Google Amazon whatever control security systems. I know I have one for a boat 80 T thing. All of them have those you can
have those need to have their own apps. No, I would make it a lot easier to bring into your home and set up how you like because it seemed to me that it was most likely to just lock you into using Apple Home using Google using Apple calendar using FaceTime. But you're thinking this might give it a little bit more breathing room to not be so walled garden like widgets are fully interactive now. So you can actually control stuff. Right. And yeah,
they could just run off of your phone. And that rumor said it would show the widgets but hide personal information until it recognized you using the built in camera and facial recognition. Once it recognized you, then it would show your personal information. So it would have full multi user support like we do on Apple TV technically. Right. And that's going to be key here because
whilst we have that on home pods, it's a little spotty too many times a day. I get who am I speaking to from my Siri? I'm like, so yeah, it'll be that that's something that Apple really needs to focus on. And this is the problem that has been we've had with using iPads as a home controller, which is something that people have been doing today to try and fill this gap is that they're not multi user. And yeah, it's not easy to switch. And so a visual
interaction makes a lot of sense. Face ID. You see who is you also have a guest mode you would assume for people to use and control devices. I just want something simple. I want Apple to crack the simple smart home interface. I don't want to have to deal with tons of little
buttons or taps. I want to be able to walk towards say what I want and it just appears and I can tap like, you know, turn the lights on and the brightness appears. And I think I think they've got and hopefully there'll be some sort of motion sensing UWB or something that recognizes you as you approach and adapts the display for you. Yep, some sort of proximity stuff. Yep. Okay. So where do we think this is on the probability
scale? Is this like one or two or are we thinking later this year? Maybe three or four? This has been I don't know what they're going to do without like spoiling the rest of our list here. There's other rumors for things like Apple TV and HomePod that are perhaps more likely. So like this would have to be a minimum of three. But I would be really surprised,
confused, if Apple introduced like part of its smart home plan and not the other part. I know there's like a rumored October event where we could see this, but it just seems weird. Here's an Apple TV and HomePod, but not the display. We're going to wait one month until we show that off. So I think at a minimum, I'm going to have to say three. I think it's
more likely than some other stuff. Well, and that was so I think that leads us right into the new home portal, the new Apple TV, which kind of like sure things like the rumors are that they've been ready for ages, but something's been holding it up. What might that be city? What might that be? Yeah. So yeah, what are we getting with new Apple TV and new HomePod
mini here? So HomePod mini, it's so long in the tooth. It was six years old now. Pretty old. So yeah, you got to do this one Apple. You got
up. There's no choice really. Yeah. 100% and what so here's okay. Switching to conspiracy had a little bit part of me wonders when they do this. Like I wonder if they could do some sort
of pairing with the home pods and the smart display because right now your home pod is running off of Apple Watch chips, right? Just like the current ones are. So could they do something bring Apple Intelligence and the new version of Siri AI to this home smart display and then relay the more complicated messages through this hub and not have to put a crazy height, not an A17 pro in here. So then again, also the new version of Apple Watch does have kind of Apple Intelligence on it now with Watch OS 27. So maybe you'll do that, but we're going to have some form of Apple Intelligence. I think it's like a guarantee like Siri AI will be here
because right now Apple's assistant is so inconsistent. I don't want my home pods to answer me when I talk to my to see. I know this is it drives me nuts trying to add something to the shopping list and my phone will and then my home pod and they'll be like competing with each other. The whole pod can't tell if you're stumbling over your phrases, the whole pod can't do, you know, almost any of the intelligence stuff that you can now do on your phone. And then the TV is a whole separate thing. It hasn't even more limited a set of controls. We need that unification.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think that no matter what, this is going to have to have some sort of Siri AI. That's what this has been held up for. That's going to be your biggest thing other than that, like updated, you know, acoustic probably second generation ultra wide band ship to be like hand off experience. I don't know if they'll do anything with like people trapping in the home or if that's
just like a pin it for possible later utilities with things. But I think like we upgraded chip, I don't know if they'll do it in N1. You don't really need Wi-Fi seven on something like a smart speaker. Yeah. But they could throw it in because they just made a whole bunch of those N1 ships and just have them lying around. But other than that, it's probably going to sound better and have Apple
intelligence. And that's probably key. That's what that's one of our other top seven is Siri in Apple Home because in case people weren't aware, it's a lot like the whole Google Home Gemini thing that's going on right now is that the assistant that you use in your home with Apple is completely different from the assistant you use on your phone. And this is talking about the new assistant on iOS 27. I'm currently on the beta for that, public beta for that. So yeah. And that is a very frustrating
disconnect because your home and your phone are not separate. You use the two of them together a lot. So yeah, we really need that. And I think actually this may even bump the home smart speaker for because I think we're going to have a new Apple TV, a new HomePod mini and a new Siri in September because that lays that foundation, that lays that groundwork for making this Apple Home shift into new hardware. I think that's longtime coming and pretty guaranteed that we're going to get that. Apple TV, we've actually had a number of updates recently. So what do we think is going to be
about this one? Is it just the Siri AI bump or are we going to get anything else? And maybe more on device intelligence? Yeah, I think there's going to be a number of new things with this one. Now compared to something like the HomePod mini because they're definitely not putting an A17 pro in there, the new Apple TV, I think will have at minimum an A17 pro to support actual like on-device Apple intelligence. We've seen with like the new versions of Apple software, they basically
have like these powerful on-device models and some that are limited to more recent devices. So I don't know where the lands with Apple TV because it doesn't need quite as much. But my guess is A17 pro processor enabling Apple intelligence. We will have likely Apple's N1 chip. I think there were some code references to Apple's N1 network and ships. So Wi-Fi 7.26 in still thread, which is jumping to
1.4 with TDOS 27. Yay, only one behind. I know about time. So we'll have those. There was also a late leak that showed we would be getting a new remote Bloomberg first said this and then this was in like that Mac OS code. That's exciting. My husband won't use the Apple TV because he hates the remote.
What is it? I think it's going to look basically the same. I'm just hoping that they put in FindMy instead of whatever they have now. That's the one thing I was reviewing like the Google TV. I really, really like it. I know the bottom of the streamer. The button on the back that rings
your remote. So simple. So good. Apple, do it. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One after accounting another for inventory another for sales and somehow none
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test board. That would be an awful lot of saying Apple home in a iPhone keynote. I mean. We'll see. We'll see. We'll have to have a Vergacars game for how many times they say Apple home in
the next event. Okay. So we have three left that we're going to power through because they're all quite exciting but also hugely dubious rumors at this stage. So we've got a robotic tabletop display and we have a security camera. So an Apple doorbell and an Apple security camera. What are you thinking
about these three? I mean the most let's start with security cameras because that kind of leads on from what we've been talking about. Like it fits into Apple home to bring their own first party hardware security cameras. So maybe an indoor camera and a doorbell camera. But they've never made an Apple home smart device. This would be a first. The homeboards don't count. Apple TVs don't count.
There's a hub. They're not devices for running or they're not devices that you use in your home. Like a camera is. So this would be a big shift. So how likely do you think these are and which one is more likely would you say? If I was putting money on it, I think that the camera, the security camera
dedicated camera would be more likely than the doorbell. Just because doorbells require wiring and that just is very on Apple to have to do any install or have a pro doing any install. Shannon, I know you talk like we talk these doorbell companies and they talk about how they have a little you can do a white service option where we show where someone shows up at your house and does the install and I don't think Apple's gonna want to get close. So if I'm putting money on the camera is going to be more important because it's plug and play. And even though there are so many cameras out there, I think this one could be very big for Apple. Obviously it's competition in Google
and Amazon have their own first party cameras that they are offering. And in the world that we're at right now, I think security and privacy are such huge things. And I think it ties in with the AI stuff and to really do a lot with AI in the home, you're gonna need cameras to be able to do that. Yeah, the visual information that feeds in, I just wrote a piece about Gemini for Home and how they how Gemini can take the text descriptions and match that to things that you are doing around the home. So having that data fed into the home from the cameras gives so much context to a smart home system that could potentially unlock significant value in the way that your smart home can maybe be a little bit more autonomous and could potentially sort of help run your home for you, which is sort of that ambient home goal. But cameras, people don't really, I don't know, even from Apple,
do you feel comfortable? Do you have cameras inside your house monitoring you while you're in your home? That I just don't, I just don't see that as something that a lot of people are going to want to do. So it's a security camera when you know, it turns on when you leave, which is something Apple Home does very well. But you're right, privacy and security are what Apple is selling here, and they've done this very well in the home. And really, they only have to beat Amazon and Google on
trust here, which isn't going to be that hard at this stage. So there are a lot of cameras out there, but there aren't a lot of cameras that people say, I feel 100% confident putting this inside my home. And I feel like Apple probably has the Trump card there. What do you think? I think that's absolutely their play, because it can, once your home starts reacting or like doing things predictably, it can be creepy. And you want to have if you're going to have something that does
that, you're going to need like one that's most secure and private. We do have cameras in the house because we have so many pets and stuff when we leave, we watch them. So like it needs to be, we for sure have to have cameras in the house, but we don't have them in any of the bedrooms or anything. But at least in like the living room dining room, main areas, we do have cameras. And I just think that's Apple's play there to use that for AI and just really hammer home. All these
privacy security things is going to give them that like, but we that the home predictive stuff could be two years away from Apple at a minimum doing anything with it. But it could start just with a basic that's very optimistic. It's Apple. They can start super tiny, like technically Apple's been doing AI for how many years now, just with the little stuff of, you know, on device core ML, the stuff showing up in control center, like that is AI predicting what controls are going to need before you need it. And it's just been in control center. And it's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. No, but you're right.
They're a little touches there. And we may see more. But I actually think the doorbell camera is makes more sense just because it is a much more popular device. Like a lot of people want doorbells. How do you think Apple's going to do with install? Like, I know it's just a weird question
to hit so much. But how do you think Apple approaches that? Yeah, I mean, well, there was rumors about it being some kind of like a magsafe device. So like, I don't know, but that has to get wired first. Some kind of battery pack inside. I mean, yeah, yeah, so that you don't actually have to wire anything.
And the why Apple HomeKit secure videos only work with wired doorbells right now. So the whole infrastructure is around wired cameras. I know there were workarounds. Well, those workarounds are if you have a hub for them, like the, the Akara one. What if the new smart display? Oh, the new smart display would be the hub for the camera. That would make a lot of sense.
Maybe they come, maybe these come together too, because that's one of the biggest uses for a smart display is seeing your video doorbell when someone rings the door. You can obviously do that with your Apple TV today. When you saw rings the doorbell, you can have the video show up on your big screen, but it's also nice to have it on your little screen that's on your desk or on your kitchen counter. I think the doorbell just makes more sense for the actual consumer. It is very hard. I with you will do five.
Okay. Doorbell five. I do love the facial ID feature on this that's been remot, though. Do you? I do because I've used it. I've used face unlock and I with other cameras and I've actually
really enjoyed it. I was surprised. I did. Do you prefer or do you want both? I liked both. I think the problem with you is you've got to have your phone on you.
With face unlock, you don't have to have your phone on you, which is it does make a difference, especially in for families if you have kids that don't have phones. I think it's a broader use case face ID and with Apple people who used to it, you use it to unlock your phone. I use it to unlock my door. I think that is just as more of a consumer use case in that. I think there's more of an AI use case in the camera. We'll see. Let's go with five for doorbell, six for student camera.
That's good. Sounds good. Then the last one, the most exciting one. Okay. Least likely to happen ever. I don't actually think this is going to happen. Robotic tabletop display. I need to help you.
What is this one, Andrew? You do think it's going to happen? Oh, 100%. I want the lamp. The lamp. This is what has been rumoured within Apple. They call it the pixel lamp.
And there's actually a video of Apple testing a similar robot lamp that they did for a sort of white paper to prove that you need interaction with a device that is endearing. And so it sounds like this device might be designed to sort of be your friend. Is that what you're hearing? We've heard who knows where all these things are going to go together. But this is my thought.
I think this is 100%. Very likely to happen. I'm not going to guarantee Apple can scratch things at any point in the process for any reason. And it could be a little less exciting than some of the rumors say. Like you talked about being your friend. I don't know about that. We've heard
versions of Apple testing out like the well, apparently it's code named charismatic is the OS that's going to be used. But I heard that with the name for Apple's home OS, which could just run on the smart display. Right. Yes. But charismatic is quite telling like that. Apple might have a version
of Siri AI just running as a version of the little finder face or a little finder guy. So what if Jen it's literally just an adapter or an updated version of the smart display that uses the technology that Apple's already had out for a few years, the tracking dot kit. This is a no longer an existing product. I'm holding up like the Belkin tracking stand pro, which was I think we called. It was.
Yes. So you should not have that. I should not. This is a fire hazard. Apparently. But yeah, it can move. It was able to move and follow you around. And that's what this
room and tabletop display is going to be. It's going to be it's going to be like a seven inch display right on a motorized arm that can move around with you and react to you is the rumor. It could just instead of being on a stationary base like we have with rumored for the launch of a half home pod mini with a seven inch display. What if it's just a bigger version of that base that has dot kit built into it that follows you around the room that's far less exciting than a robot. I thought it would be a robot, Andrew. Give me robots. I mean, we're getting there. You got
to start somewhere. You got to start on your counter. I keep seeing. I don't know. I because it's you know, X or Twitter, you see one video and you see a thousand of the same video. But for the last several
days, I've just seen all the companies launching their own versions of the Pixar lamps and I just keep seeing videos of them as AI assistants rotating around literally just lamps. But I could see Apple making a version of, you know, it's an it's assistant that has some sort of UI to it and then on some sort of dot kit base with an improved speaker that feels very much like a personal assistant, a personal robot sitting on your counter. Okay, Andrew, we've got it. We've ranked the likelihood of the products arriving at number one is Apple TV. We think that's a shoe in home pod mini, maybe not maxi. We didn't really get to that. Number two, and then at number three, we'll be
Siri in the home gets the intelligence and those three of, you know, neck and neck at the finish line followed closely, hopefully. Number four, the smart, the home smart display, the Apple Hub, Apple Home Hub. Who knows what it's going to be called? Apple Pad. Apple Pad sounds good to me.
Home Pad. There we go. There you go. Apple will take that one. And then number five is a Apple doorbell camera, number six, an Apple security camera, and then number seven, the robotic tabletop display that looks like the Pixar lamp and that's going to be charming.
That seems not likely in my books. Andrew is a lot more optimistic. Thank you, Andrew. Really pretty sure you joining me to start this one out and we'll have to get back together in a few months and see if we got it right. Hopefully we do. Sound great.
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