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This Sunday, striking back. Iran retaliates against Israel, launching more than 300 drones and missiles, and warning the U.S. about getting involved. This is a severe and dangerous escalation.
Is the war now expanding into a wider conflict? I'll talk to National Security Council spokesman John Kirby and Republican Congressman Mike Turner, the chair of the House Intelligence Committee. Plus, abortion battlegrounds. The states will be making the decision.
Save on you! The fight over abortion access intensifies after Arizona's Supreme Court reinstates a 160-year-old law banning nearly all abortions. We broke Roe v. Wade, and we did something that nobody thought was possible.
Donald Trump struggles to define his position on reproductive rights, while Democrats see a political opportunity. Donald Trump is the architect of this health care crisis. How will the abortion issue shape the 2024 election? I'll talk to Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan.
And criminal defendant, Donald Trump's first criminal trial is set to begin in Manhattan. All I can do is tell the truth, and the truth is that there's no case. They have no case. How will it impact the 2024 campaign?
Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News Washington managing editor Carol Lee, Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan, and Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press. From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Walker.
Good Sunday morning. The world is waking up to a new inflection point in the war in the Middle East. Overnight, Iran mounted a wide-scale aerial attack on Israel, launching more than 300 drones and missiles. In retaliation for Israel's air strike on Iran's consulate in Syria two weeks ago, they killed seven members of Iran's Revolutionary Guard, including two top commanders.
This is the first time Iran has directly attacked Israel from its own territory, the Israeli military, with this forceful response. Iran has launched a direct attack from Iranian soil towards the state of Israel. This is a severe and dangerous escalation. Now, according to Israeli defense forces, 99% of the missiles and drones were intercepted by Israeli and U.S.
forces. A few fell inside Israeli territory. The strikes caused minor damage to one Israeli military base in southern Israel and severely injured a young child. Urgent efforts at diplomacy are expected to intensify.
President Biden says he will convene a meeting of the group of seven leaders today. On Saturday, he spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and reaffirmed America's ironclad commitment to the security of Israel. A senior administration official tells NBC News he also urged Netanyahu not to retaliate, but, quote, Take the win. You've hit the win.
For its part, Israel's defense minister says its confrontation with Iran is not over yet, and already Republican rhetoric is ratcheting up. Israel's response, and there should be a response, should not be proportionate. It should be far stronger, because when deterrence fails, to reestablish it, you have to teach the adversary that any gain they may help you get by any future attack will be more than outweighed by the damage that will be caused. Joining me now is National Security Council spokesman John Kirby.
John, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thanks, Kristen, to be with you. Thank you so much for being here. What is the United States' assessment of where things stand this morning?
Is this over? Well, where things stand this morning is just an incredible military achievement by Israel, and, quite frankly, the United States and other partners that helped Israel defend itself against more than 300 drones and missiles. I mean, it's just an extraordinary example of military superiority that Israel demonstrated to the whole world last night. And I think Israel also demonstrated that it has friends, that it's not standing alone, that it's not isolated on the world stage.
Now, whether and how the Israelis will respond, that's going to be up to them. We understand that and respect that. But the president's been very clear. We don't seek a war with Iran.
We're not looking for escalation here. We will continue to help Israel defend itself. Are you, as we sit here right now, aware of any threats to U.S. troops in the region?
We are staying vigilant to exactly that potential threat, but we have not seen any attacks on U.S. troops or personnel in the region or our facilities, and nothing to report to this morning. But we're going to obviously watch that very, very closely. Just to get a sense of how this came together, did the United States have any back-channel communications with Iran, if only to deconflict the airspace over Syria?
I would just, not in terms of the operations, but, I mean, obviously in the lead-up to what happened yesterday. So there were back-channel communications here. I would just say we made it very clear to all parties, including Iran, what we would do and how we would continue to defend Israel, and also how seriously we would take any potential threat to our personnel and our facilities in the region. A lot of people watched what happened in the skies over the Middle East overnight, and they are wondering this morning, has this now escalated into a wider war?
I don't think there's any reason that it needs to. But has it? Are we now in the midst of a wider war? The president doesn't believe that it needs to move in that direction whatsoever, Kristen.
What Israel demonstrated last night was an incredible ability to defend itself. Just their own military superiority was quite remarkable yesterday. I mean, very little got through, and the damage was extraordinarily light. And also, Israel demonstrated, again, as I said, that they're not standing alone, that they have friends.
So the president's been clear, we don't want to see this escalate. We're not looking for a wider war with Iran. I think the coming hours and days will tell us a lot. But what's your response to Americans who see those missiles being intercepted in the skies overnight and believe that this has already escalated?
I would ask the Americans that saw what happened last night to take heart in terms of the military capability of their forces in the region, how they are defending themselves and defending our interests in the region. And also, reiterate what I said before, know that the president is working the diplomatic side of this personally. In fact, today, just a little bit later today, he's going to call the G7 together to talk about a diplomatic response here. NBC News is reporting that President Biden, talking about the diplomatic outreach, told Prime Minister Netanyahu that the United States will not participate in offensive operations against Iran.
Can you confirm that? I won't go into the greater detail of the conversation with the prime minister. They did have a good chat last night. What was the message?
What was the message? It was very clearly, you know, we stand with you in your self-defense. That was the main message that the president delivered to the prime minister. He congratulated the prime minister and the IDF for the extraordinary job they did, knocking things out of the sky.
But I won't go into more detail. Again, I just go back to what the president has said time and time again. We don't seek an escalation. We don't seek a wider war in the region.
So did he warn Israel not to respond? Did he say, take the win, as has been reported? I think the president was, again, very clear with Prime Minister Netanyahu about the success that they enjoyed last night and the impact that that success ought to have. Are you anticipating a counterattack by Israel?
And do you expect, has Israel given the United States any assurances that it will give the U.S. a warning, a heads up before it moves forward with any type of counterattack? Whether and how the Israelis respond is going to be up to them, I'm certainly not going to get ahead of their decision making. If Israel does move forward with retaliatory strikes, are you concerned that he will not be responsible about it, given that the United States was not given a heads up before Israel lobbed that attack in Syria against Iranian affairs?
We have, and we will stay in touch with our Israeli counterparts so that the information flow is as robust as possible. Well, if Israel does decide to move forward with retaliatory strikes, will the United States support Israel, or will Israel be going it alone? I won't get into hypotheticals one way or another here, since Israel hasn't made any decisions that I'm aware of about what the next step is. They performed extraordinarily well last night, and it really was a largely unsuccessful attack by Iran.
That is noteworthy, and that should be remembered. And again, as I said earlier, it wasn't that they didn't do it alone. They had the United States support, and as the President said to the Prime Minister last night, that support for Israel's self-defense will stay ironclad. It will not change.
Some Republican lawmakers are calling for the United States to respond directly to Iran. Has President Biden ruled out the U.S. launching a direct attack? As I said, the President has made it clear.
We do not seek a war with Iran. We don't seek a wider war. Is a direct attack off the table? Is it off the table?
As the President said, we don't seek a war with Iran. What is the red line that would cause the United States to get directly involved? Well, Megan, I mean, if we could sit here all day talking about what is and what is on the red line, I'm not going to do that. I don't think it's helpful to get into hypotheticals.
Let's focus on the task at hand, and the task at hand last night was to help Israel fend off hundreds of drones and missiles, and they did that successfully. Weren't the United States already involved to some extent, though, given that, as you say, it did counter a number of those drones that were directed towards Israel? Yes, that was a purely defensive mission. It was completely consistent with our obligations and our commitment to the defense of Israel.
And again, Kristen, it wasn't just us. Other nations participated as well. How many drones, how many missiles did the U.S. shoot out of this time?
I don't know what the final tally is. I think the Department of Defense will probably be looking at that, but I think it's safe to say several dozens of drones and missiles that the United States helped out. President Biden said this week that Prime Minister Netanyahu's actions in Gaza are a, quote, mistake. Do you trust his judgment in deciding how to respond to these attacks?
He's the Prime Minister of Israel. He's the elected leader of their government. We're going to continue to work with him, advise him, provide counsel and perspective, as well as make clear he knows, and I think he does certainly from last night, that the United States will continue to help them defend themselves. I mean, there is still a very dire humanitarian situation in Gaza.
And after the last call, not last night, but the one before that with the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister assured the President that he would work to meet some of the President's requests with respect to increasing the aid, opening up additional crossings, getting more trucks in. And you know what, Kristen, in the last few days, that has happened. Something on the order of 2,000 trucks have gotten in just since the discussion with Prime Minister Netanyahu a week or so ago. Now, is it enough?
No, of course not. It's got to be sustained over time. But the Israelis are making efforts to try to meet good on those commitments. I don't have to tell you this, but the House has not yet passed aid to Israel and Ukraine, given what has happened overnight in the Middle East.
Does that add urgency? What is your message to House lawmakers today? Should they be putting that supplemental on the floor this coming week? That they should put it on the floor as soon as possible.
Last night, I mean, we didn't need any reminders in terms of what's going on in Ukraine, but last night it certainly underscores significantly the threat that Israel faces in a very, very tough neighborhood. So there's a bipartisan bill by the Senate that all the House needs to do is take it up, put it on the floor. And you and I both know the votes are there. But we're just looking for leadership out of the Speaker's office, get it on the floor, get it voted on, so that not only Israel can get additional resources to defend itself, we'll say clearly, but that Ukraine can as well.
All right, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby, thank you so much for being here this morning. I really appreciate it. Yes, ma'am. When we come back, the FBI director is warning that events in the Middle East could inspire attacks on U.S.
soil. Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, joins me next. Notice how some homes sell faster in your neighborhood? It's not luck, it's local know-how.
REMAX agents know their streets, schools, and communities inside and out. And with REMAX, those local pros are everywhere. Which means when you're ready to buy yourself, you'll get trusted neighborhood insight that puts you a step ahead. Reach out today.
REMAX, the experts are closed to home. Each office independently owned and operated. Welcome back. FBI director Christopher Wray warned this week on Capitol Hill that the Bureau is growing increasingly concerned about the possibility of a coordinated attack inside the United States, inspired by events in the Middle East.
As I look back over my career in law enforcement, I would be hard-pressed to think of a time where so many threats to our public safety and national security were so elevated all at once. Joining me now is the Republican chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. Chairman Turner, welcome back to Meet the Press. Krista, thanks for having me.
Thank you so much for being here. Let's start with the breaking news overnight, those strikes by Iran against Israel that were largely intercepted. What is your reaction this morning? Well, obviously the United States had advanced notice that this was going to occur and worked with Israel in preparations.
I was briefed by the CIA director Friday of the preparations and the information that the United States was receiving. I think John Kirby, though, articulated very well, due to your questions, the unfortunate, I think, fallacies in the Biden administration's policies. The United States and Israel jointly developed missile defense technology that went to work last night, and it was proven to be successful, and it is de-escalatory. It gives us space to be able to make appropriate decisions.
But, unfortunately, the Biden administration's view is that if you use missile defense, an attack didn't happen. That's the way they reacted to the over 100 attacks that have occurred on U.S. troops from terrorist groups and organizations in Iraq and Syria, resulting in three deaths of American troops in Jordan, all by Iranian-backed groups and organizations. I think the administration needs to take seriously that this attack has happened.
It's unprecedented, and certainly it needs to be viewed as an escalation. This is an escalating conflict. Well, Congressman, very quickly, though, I do have to push back because, of course, those attacks that you referenced, the United States did carry out counterattacks, more than 800 of them, and then those attacks by those Iranian-backed groups did come to a close. But I do want to ask you what you think should happen next.
That's honestly true. But what the Biden administration said is if there are deaths, if American troops are hit, they're going to respond. Over 100 attacks on American troops, they did not respond. In this instance, you just heard John Kirby articulate that the defense was successful, and then almost as if a dismissal of the fact that Iran has attacked Israel directly.
Well, and what he said was that he does not want to see this escalate into a wider war. So let me put this question to you. Again, the United States did respond to those attacks with more than 100 counterattacks. Israel is saying, the War Cabinet Minister, Benny Gantz, just said, we will exact a price from Iran in the fashion and timing that is right for us.
Do you expect Israel to respond? Should Israel respond? Well, even though these attacks are unprecedented coming directly from Iran, Israel has been under attack by Iran for decades. They fund and train Hezbollah.
They fund and train Hamas. Hamas, which undertook the October 7th attacks into Israel that were just vicious in the number of deaths in the manner in which it was executed. All as a result of groups trained, funded, and given weapons by Iran. So this has already been an ongoing conflict where Israel understands that they have been under siege and under attack by Iran.
It's the first time, though, that they have attacked directly from Iran, and certainly this is an escalation. I think John Kirby is wrong to be able to say, we don't want an escalating conflict. It is already escalating, and the administration needs to respond. So you believe this has already become a wider war within the Middle East this morning?
That is what you are saying? Over 300 weapons were shot from Iran at Israel. This is an escalating conflict. The administration, because we were successful, because we invested in missile defense technology with Israel, the administration is acting like, well, done.
We defended Israel against these attacks. This is not escalating. This is escalating. Well, John Kirby wasn't necessarily saying done.
He was saying, let's not escalate this further. But let me ask you about what your Republican colleagues are saying, because I want to get specific about what you would like to see. Congressman, as you know, some of your Republican colleagues are saying this calls for the United States to respond directly by striking Iran. Would you support that?
Should the United States go on offense and strike Iran, engage directly with Iran? I think what the United States needs to do is to understand that Iran has already taken the next step of understanding that they get a free pass for attacking Israel directly from Iranian soil from the United States. So is that a yes? Is that a yes, Congressman, you're saying?
I believe that they will do it again. And I think the United States needs to make clear, which this administration has not, that if they continue to attack Israel, that, yes, they will get a response from Iran. Iran is in a very vulnerable position. First off, it should never be allowed to be a nuclear weapon state.
This administration gave it $6 billion to release detainees. It has continued to. Those assets were frozen. Congressman, as you know, those are Iranian.
fund, then the assets are now frozen. Let me ask you this. This administration permitted Iran to have access to $6 billion that it did not have access to before. But those assets are frozen haven't made their way to Iran, as you know, Congress.
This administration has continued to fail to recognize that Iran is an adversary. It's an adversary to Israel. It is coordinating Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen and attacks on commercial waterways. The administration continues to look the other way and fails to recognize that this is escalating and they're going to have to step up to the plate.
The administration has done what you've said they should do, which is to warn that there will be countermeasures if Iran continues to escalate. I'm asking you what should be done right now. Donald Trump's national former security, former national security advisor, John Bolton, called on Israel to destroy Iran's nuclear weapons program. Would you support that?
Well, first off, Israel and the United States have made it very clear that Iran should never be permitted to become a nuclear weapons state. This administration, however, has been very slow to step up to that declaration. They have instead worked to try to engage Iran and failed to see it as an adversary, as really the malicious force that is destabilizing the Middle East. While Iran was destabilizing the Middle East, they continued to work with Iran and I think they've emboldened Iran.
This administration is failing to say there is a red line. There should be a red line. Congressman, after Donald Trump pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal, Iran is now closer to developing a nuclear weapon. But can you just answer my question?
Would you support that? Would you support Israel targeting Iran's nuclear weapons program? Just on that question, would you support Israel doing that? Well, as I was answering to you before, Iran is very vulnerable, both in its nuclear weapons sites, but even in its weapons production sites, those weapons that are showing up on the battlefield of Ukraine in the hands of Russians, and also its oil logistics and export facilities.
It is in a very vulnerable position. If Israel sees that it has to rise to the occasion to attack Iran directly in order to protect itself, then certainly I think the United States supports Israel's right to defend itself. You have a country, Iran, that is destabilizing the Middle East, continues to produce weapons capabilities that are even exporting to Europe. They have their proxies that are attacking Israel, shipping, commercial lanes.
They are escalating while this administration continues to deny it. Congressman, bottom line here, do you want to see U.S. military action against Iran or Israel take a countermeasure against Iran? I don't think at this point that the United States should be engaged in military action directly at Iran, but I do believe that if this administration fails to step up to the plate and understand that we have an escalating conflict, and make it clear to Iran that there are red lines, and that the United States will defend Israel and will not allow Iran to become a weapons state, that we will be in a broader conflict and we will have less options.
Their failure to box in Iran and let them understand there will be consequences makes it more dangerous every day. As you know, this aid package that will provide aid to Israel, but also Ukraine, has been held up, has been blocked by former President Trump. Do you want to see the House Speaker bring this to the floor for a vote this week and has he given you any assurances that he will do so? It's not been held up by Donald Trump, let's be clear, it's being held up in the House by debates and deliberations in the House of Representatives.
I think that the Speaker has been very clear, he supports Ukraine funding, he supports funding for Israel, he supports the Asia package as part of the National Security Supplemental, and he's made clear that he sees that the path is for that to come to the House for this week. I think it will have overwhelming support, both the Ukraine, Israel, and Asia packages, not just because of what's happened with Iran escalating in the conflict in the Middle East, but because these are allies that need and deserve our support. As you know, Donald Trump has been on the sidelines saying he doesn't want to see that aid go to Ukraine unless it's in the form of a loan, but just very quickly, do you expect it to get a vote this week, Congressman? I do, and I expect it to pass.
By the way, Donald Trump said on the humanitarian, the other support to the Ukrainian government, on the weapons, the military support, everyone has been very much on the side of understanding that we're at a critical point. Russia's beginning to gain ground, Ukraine is beginning to lose the ability to defend itself, and the United States must step up and provide Ukraine the weapons that they need, and I think we're going to see overwhelming support for that in the House this week. All right, Chairman Turner, I have a lot more questions, but we're out of time. Thank you so much for joining us.
I really appreciate it. When we come back, Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan joins me next. Welcome back. Now to the issue that could be a defining one for the 2024 election, abortion.
This week, we were reminded of its power and potency, when on Tuesday, the Arizona State Supreme Court reinstated an 1864 law that bans nearly all abortions, making the presidential battleground state ground zero for the fight over reproductive rights. Democrats wasted no time seizing on the moment. Vice President Kamala Harris traveled to Arizona on Friday and blasted the ban, while putting the blame squarely on former President Trump, who appointed the three conservative Supreme Court justices who made it possible to overturn Roe v. Wade.
Donald Trump is the architect of this healthcare crisis, and that is not a fact, by the way, that he hides. In fact, he brags about it. Just this week, he said that he is, quote, proudly the person responsible for overturning Roe. Now, for his part, the presumptive GOP nominee has consistently struggled to define where he stands on the issue.
After initially saying this week, abortion is an issue that states will decide, Trump then said the Arizona State Supreme Court went too far, and he aimed to distance himself from supporting a national ban. But has President Trump endorsed a 20-week federal ban on abortion back in 2017? It's Trump's latest position on abortion in a political career marked by a number of them. Would President Trump ban partial birth abortion?
Well, look, I'm very pro-choice. I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for.
I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still, I just believe in choice. You do believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle. The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.
For the woman? Yeah. The justices that I'm going to appoint will be pro-life. They will have a conservative bent.
Unborn children have never had a stronger defender in the White House. So for 52 years, people have wanted to end Roe v. Wade to get it back to the States. We did that.
It was an incredible thing. It was an incredible achievement. We did that. And now the states have it.
Meanwhile, a year after the Dobbs decision, more than 60% of voters disapproved of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade. So where does the battle over abortion go from here? Joining me now is the Democratic Governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer.
Governor Whitmer, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thanks for having me. Well, Governor, thank you for being here on a big morning. Former President Trump held a rally last night.
He did not mention the issue of abortion. But earlier this week, he noted that abortion laws are left up to the states. He said he wouldn't support a national ban. How concerned are you that his efforts to straddle the line could effectively weaken this issue for Democrats?
Well, I think your phraseology, straddle the line, is generous. He's lied. He's lied over and over again to the people of this country. The only person who should be making a decision about whether and when to have a child is a woman, the people she loves and trusts, and her doctor.
Period. Politicians need to get out of the way. And the American people have over and over again told us that's their exact expectations. And so as I speak to people in my state or around the country, it's very clear.
Abortion is not just on the ballot in places like Arizona and Florida. It is on the ballot in all 50 states because the former president has said many different times that he would sign a national abortion ban. And that's really a very real possibility that would undo all the progress we've made in states like Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, etc. This is on the ballot for every one of us in this presidential election.
Governor, you take me to my next question, which is, do you think that President Biden should make this the defining issue above all others in 2024 on the campaign trail? Well, I think that this is at the heart of so many Americans' concerns, our fundamental freedoms as Americans, our ability to make the most consequential economic decision in our lifetime is whether and when to have a child. It is the ability for the infertile couple, so many millions of whom have relied on embryonic in vitro fertilization. All of these things are very much at risk, and I know that it is at the heart and center of people who want desperately to start families, who desperately need access to medical care, and our choice could not be more start.
We have a president right now who is standing between a national abortion ban and has used his powers to expand access for women in this country, and the guy who appointed three lying Supreme Court justices to the bench who are the architects of the Roe repeal, and let's be very clear, Donald Trump did this. So just to be very clear, should President Biden make this the number one issue? Should abortion be the number one issue in 2024? Well, abortion, the fundamentals of our democracy, whether or not we can be safe here, whether or not we're going to continue to rebuild American manufacturing and bring supply chains home.
I mean, it's hard to say what one issue is more important than others when there are so many fundamental issues that are at stake, and that we've got two candidates that couldn't be more different on all of these issues. But I do think that the fundamental right to make your own decisions about your body is going to be a number one motivator for a lot of folks in this country. Governor, President Biden has said that if he's reelected, he will codify Roe v. Wade.
As you know, it is highly unlikely he will have 60 votes in the Senate to do that. Is the president offering voters false hope on this point? I think the president has been very clear that he absolutely supports this fundamental reproductive freedom for all Americans, and he'll do everything in his power. You know, we thought in Ohio, it might be real difficult to get abortion rights codified.
They surprised us. And so I'm not going to foresee and predict what the odds are, but I can tell you, we have seen this issue has motivated people because they know that this is a fundamental question of who we are as a society and how we are going to empower Americans to do what they need to do to protect their health, to grow their families, to make their own decisions in their own lives. And politicians should get the heck out of the way. Let me ask you a little bit about the policy.
According to the CDC, slightly less than 1% of abortions occur after fetal viability. Where do you stand on this, Governor? Should there be any limits on abortion after viability, which usually falls somewhere between 24 to 26 weeks? You know, the Roe standard did have that, and that's precisely what we've been fighting for.
Do you support that, just to be clear, you would support some limitations after viability? I would support the Roe standard becoming the law of a nation again. That's exactly where I'm at. I know that's where most Americans are.
But I'll also share with you, Chris, and I am not a doctor. I would rely on medical advice, but in my experience, it is only the woman and the person who's giving her her medical advice, the scientist, that should be articulating what the standards are in this space. You know, I ask you in part because, as you know, former President Trump has falsely accused Democrats of wanting abortion up until birth. Do you think that Democrats need to more clearly define where they stand on this part of the debate, on where limits should be?
I think what we should do is be holding Donald Trump accountable. Let's remember, the reason that we're in this mess is because of his appointees to the Supreme Court. Three people who lied to Congress when they said they thought Roe was the settled law of the land. He put them on that court, and they are the reason that Roe was ripped away from Americans.
They've lied to us. He has lied to us. You cannot trust anything Donald Trump says about this issue, or frankly, in my opinion, a whole host of others. And that's precisely why I think it's so important that we reelect Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to the White House, because they're the only ones you can trust on this issue.
Their position has been rock solid. They trust women and medical providers, and that's the only people who should be making these decisions. Let's talk about what is happening in the Middle East. Approximately 60% of Michigan voters disapprove of President Biden's handling of the war in Gaza.
Your state obviously has the largest Arab American population in the country. Less than 20% of Arab Americans nationally say that they will vote to reelect President Biden. Do you think this issue, President Biden's handling of the war in the Middle East, could cost him the state of Michigan? I think that the state of Michigan is always going to be a close race, no matter what, under what scenario.
I will share, though, as I've had conversations with people both in my Jewish community and in the Arab American and Muslim and Palestinian communities, that a lot of people are hurting right now. A lot of people are one degree of separation from someone who's lost their lives when it was on October 7th, or it is in the war in Gaza. And so I'm trying to keep an open dialogue to stay focused on how we support these beautiful, diverse communities here in Michigan, and I'm hoping for peace. But obviously, after the events of the last 24 hours, there's a lot that is evolving here, and I'm glad to see that our president said he remains with an ironclad commitment to the security of Israel.
Some Democrats, including from your state, are calling the war in Gaza a genocide. Would you go that far? Do you believe that what is happening inside Gaza is a genocide? I think that it's heartbreaking to see the loss of so many innocent lives, children, every day that this war continues to be prosecuted, and that's why as Governor, as Commander-in-Chief of the Michigan National Guard, I'm watching this very closely and doing what I can to support all of these communities here in Michigan.
But you don't go that far to use that term genocide? I'm not going to weigh in where I know that a lot of these terms are used to inflame and divide us. I'm going to stay focused on being productive and hoping that we can have peace very soon. I want to ask you about what the country will be watching this week.
Former President Trump's criminal trial will get underway in New York and Manhattan for allegedly falsifying business records to attempt to conceal payments to a porn star. We should note that Mr. Trump has denied any wrongdoing in this case. Do you think the Biden campaign, which is currently planning to counter-program these criminal trials, should be leading in more directly, talking about Trump's trials directly?
You know, I'm not sure, Kristen. To be honest, we are in unprecedented territory. We have a former sitting president who's got four different criminal trials in process. This one's kicking off.
We keep referring to it as Hush Money, but I like how you actually went a step further to explain to people. He lied on his business financials. This is a man who is loyal to one thing. The truth is not it.
It is Donald Trump. His story changes. He has betrayed his oath of office. He betrayed his postpartum wife and their new child.
He has betrayed all the people that invested in his companies and the people who worked for him. This is, I think, one more very clear reason why I don't think we can trust this man with our future, with our democracy, and certainly with our fundamental rights. All right. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thank you so much for joining us.
We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. And when we come back, from the Bronco chase to the televised trial, how the O.J. Simpson murder trial captivated the nation.
Are we the press minute is next. O.J. Simpson died this week. The former NFL running back was, of course, best known for that low-speed car chase in 1994, when 95 million Americans watched his white Ford Bronco flee from police across Los Angeles, just days after the murders of his ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend, Ronald Goldman.
Then there was the trial of the century, in which Simpson was acquitted. It redefined celebrity trials in the age of cable television. Bob Costas was a longtime sportscaster with NBC. He worked with Simpson and joined this broadcast as his former colleague was preparing to stand trial.
This is a tragedy that has, I guess, almost inevitably in this mass media age and cameras in the courtroom and tabloid television and the way mainstream television and the press is affected by that tabloid influence. It's a tragedy that has rapidly become a spectacle. But we have to keep in mind a horrible crime has been committed. There are two victims.
A man is on trial for his life. As shocking as the accusations against O.J. remain, even as we've had time to digest it, to those of us who knew him, I think the only thing a reasonable person hopes for is that justice will be served here. Regardless of what that outcome is, the justice will be served, not evaded or manipulated or obscured by peripheral issues.
When we come back, he's facing 34 felony counts for falsifying business records. Donald Trump's first criminal trial will begin on Monday in Manhattan. The panel joins me next. Welcome back.
The panel is here. NBC News Washington managing editor Carol Lee, Eugene Robinson, columnist for The Washington Post, and Peggy Noonan, columnist for The Wall Street Journal. Thanks to all of you for being here on a very busy morning. Carol, let's talk about Iran for the moment.
In the context of obviously all this is taking place against the backdrop of the 2024 race, this is undoubtedly yet another contour, and you have new reporting that the United States has deep concerns about how Israel may respond. They do. They're very concerned, administration officials, that Israelis could respond by doing something rash. There's been a lot of frustration among top administration officials with the fact that Israel took this strike initially in Damascus, because from the administration's perspective, they did so without having a strategy, without thinking through the timing of the strike, what happens next after the strike.
And one official described Israel's approach to military operations generally as frenetic. And so it's the same concern that they've had with the way Israel's conducted the war in Gaza, to sort of shoot first, ask questions later. And so what we've seen from the administration in the past two weeks is a real effort across the region of diplomacy to try to shape what happens next here. And from their perspective, their goal was they knew Iran had to respond, that Iran would respond, but do so in a way that it didn't cause too much damage, so Israel didn't have to react in a very aggressive way.
It seems to have played out like that so far, but they don't know what's going to happen next and whether Prime Minister Netanyahu will, in the course of the president, take the win. Yeah, I know you'll be tracking that very closely. We all will be, because again, it will have implications for 2024. Peggy, another thing that will have big implications for 2024, the truck trial.
Yes. There could be more than one, but we know that his first one gets underway tomorrow again for those alleged falsified business payments that he made to an adult porn star. He has denied any wrongdoing. I want to play a little bit of what he said about this at his rally overnight in Pennsylvania.
Take a look. When I walk into that courtroom, I know I will have the love of 200 million Americans behind me, and I consider it a great badge of honor because I am being indicted for youth. You have written that bringing the charges against the former president in this case was, quote, below him as a country. What do you mean?
What are you going to be watching for? Oh, my gosh. One always hopes it's below us, if you know what I mean. We're going to have like six weeks of headlines and talking about porn star, hush money, who knew it, dramatic testimony, steamy stuff.
I'm not sure that does any good. I prefer the January 6th investigation and the serious Georgia case. That said, this is happening. Some areas of curiosity.
How long will it go? I hope it doesn't go like OJ's in nine months. What impact will it have that the former president will be in the court, but the testimony will not be live on TV? I don't suppose this is the sort of thing that is going to make our children more inspired about democracy.
I do think the charges are probably by and large true. It'll work through the system. We'll see where it goes. Eugene, what are you going to be watching for?
Trump has used this as a chance to argue this as an example of a two-tiered system of justice. This case was brought, of course, by a grand jury. Yeah, it was brought by grand jury. And yeah, it's a two-tiered system of justice, so if you are wealthy and famous, you can delay the proceedings indefinitely, as he has done with his other criminal trials.
You can hire really good lawyers, and apparently you can, if not violate them, certainly skirt the edges of court orders by insulting over and over again, attacking the judge, the judge's family, other people connected with the case. You can talk about the case constantly, in a way, frankly, that a defendant who was less wealthy and famous and powerful than Donald Trump would never get away with. I mean, we're talking contempt of court, and you're talking a lot of defendants who would have been stepped back to the cell. He already has a partial gag order against you, a lot of questions about whether he's violated that.
Carol was so notable, I asked Gretchen Whitmer, should Biden be leaning into this directly? She said, I'm not sure you have reported that he's not going to. He's going to do the counter-programming thing. And by the way, some Democrats don't think that that's the right strategy.
That's exactly right. One Democrat strategist told us that they think the president should go on the offense on this, that he should be heading back specifically about the attacks from former President Trump, that these are Biden trials, that the president is somehow behind this in order to sideline him from campaigning. But what the White House has decided to do, the Biden campaign, is put the president out there and create these sort of dueling images they hope to speak for themselves. So you have Trump in court, you're going to have President Biden in Pennsylvania over three days talking about the economy, hitting former President Trump on his tax proposal, saying he's out there, he would benefit the wealthy, the president's fighting for the middle class, all the while having his campaign really keep up this pressure on the abortion issue.
But again, it's a risk, and it's not something all Democrats agree on. Yeah, I think it'll be fascinating to see if he gets more pressure to lean into this a little bit more directly. Arguably, I think one of the biggest X factors, as we sit here today, is the issue of abortion. In your report, Carol, you also say abortion could make up the margin of difference in this case.
Peggy, how do you see this? Trump has tried to sort of have a number of different ways to say Arizona went too far, but he's not going to sign a national ban. How do you see this playing out? Look, Donald Trump has always been transactional.
Oddly enough, I think a lot of his pro-life supporters understood he was transactional, didn't mind it because they liked the transaction. I think we are watching Donald Trump every day try to get from under the implications of his own act, having set up the process by which Roe v. Wade was removed. Trump wanted it returned to the states.
The states seem to have made an awkward mess of it in some respects. He wants to get away from the mess. And so now he's doing what he does. He's a transactional fellow.
One thing I would tell the Democrats, I sense that they are just going abortion, abortion, abortion. That's the plan for the next six months. That's not going to look so great. Don't overplay your hand.
They've got public opinion at the moment. What about that? Well, it looks like a pretty strong hand to me. If you look at elections that have taken place, the referenda on reproductive rights, elections in which candidates were on different sides of the abortion issue since the demise of Roe v.
Wade, they have gone pretty heavily toward the Democrats. And I think this is something that the Republican Party is going to have to try to figure out. How do they get to where the American people are on abortion, which is basically a lot of the better of a constitutional right? Yeah, a lot of Republicans talking about how to do exactly that.
Thank you all for a phenomenal conversation. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We will be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
We'll be back next week.