This Sunday, party leader alliances. Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell joins me for a wide ranging interview as he prepares to step down as Republican leader later this year. This is not principal interest. Pushing back against isolationism.
His thoughts on Donald Trump's courtroom campaign. Do you think that presidents should be immune from criminal prosecution for actions while they're in office? Obviously, I don't think that. And his own legacy.
Do you ever regret your vote to acquit? Plus escalating tensions. Protests over the Israel Hamas war spread on college campuses across the country. Population is a crime.
What impact will it all have on President Biden's re election campaign? I'll talk to Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. And barrier breaker civil rights icon Ruby Bridges joins me for our Meet the Most conversation. I was thrust into the middle of a situation that no six year old should be put in.
Joining me for insight and analysis are Jeff Bennett, co anchor of PBS NewsHour, Jonathan Martin of Politico, former White House press secretary Jen Psaki and Mark Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press from NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the PRESS with Kristen Walker.
Good Sunday morning after a monumental week marked by the first ever criminal trial of a former president and history making arguments before the Supreme Court. While Donald Trump sat in a New York courtroom on trial for 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, the Supreme Court heard arguments on Trump's claim of presidential immunity, which could reshape the future of presidential power. The justices appear ready to reject Trump's sweeping claim that he's immune from any criminal prosecution on felony charges of conspiracy and obstruction for trying to subvert the 2020 election, but suggested they might give Trump a different kind of victory, a delay in the case signaling they could send it back to lower courts. At issue, a version of this claim that Richard Nixon made in 1977.
When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. In nearly three hours of oral arguments, the liberal justice has raised a series of hypotheticals to emphasize the consequences of Mr. Trump's position that presidents are entitled to absolute immunity. If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get immunity?
If a president sells nuclear secrets to a foreign adversary, is that immune? How about if a president orders the military to stage a coup? I'm trying to understand what the disincentive is from turning the Oval Office into, you know, the seat of criminal activity in this country. For their part, the conservative justices on the court seemed focused on the impact on future presidents.
I'm not concerned about this case, but I am concerned about future uses of the criminal law to target political opponents based on accusations about their motives. I'm not discussing the particular facts of this case, but it applies to any fraud that interferes seriously with any government operation. Right. I'm not focused on the here and now of this case.
I'm very concerned about the future. One of the strongest cases against immunity was made in 2021 by Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell after he voted to acquit Trump in his second impeachment trial. We have a criminal justice system in this country. We have civil litigation and former presidents are not immune for being accountable by either one.
I sat down with the Senate Republican leader and discussed presidential immunity and a range of other topics, including the protests on college campuses nationwide and the recent aid package that was just passed for Ukraine. McConnell helped secure the deal in the Senate after a months long delay and fierce opposition within his own party. I began by asking about his call this week with Ukrainian President Zelensky. What was your message to President Zelensky and is this aide getting there too late to make a difference?
Leader McConnell, I can only express my own view, which is that I'm willing and I don't think we ought to try to force a settlement they don't want to make. I have the same view of Israel, for example. You know, the administration basically saying you ought to have an election. It's not our job to tell them Democratic ally whether or not to have an election or also, and I think we've done some of this in both these countries trying to give them restrictions on how they fight the war.
They're there, they're in the conflict. I don't think telling them how they ought to run their military operation is in our best interest or theirs. I want to get to the isolationism in your party and I do want to get to the Middle East. But just on this point, do you think after this six months battle for aid to Ukraine, do you worry it's getting there too late?
I think we need to stick with them. I think it's important to us look at all the good things that have happened to us as a result of this. Most of the money is being spent in the US in 38 different states. The Europeans have stepped up.
We've got two new members of NATO, the Prime Minister of Japan here a couple of weeks ago, spent a lot of time talking about Ukraine. And he had previously said, if you want to send President Xi a message, beat Putin in Ukraine. This is a worldwide problem. It's not going to go away after one supplemental.
Well, let's talk about your concerns about the future of the isolationism in your own party. What is your message to the isolationists in the Republican Party? Ronald Reagan had it right. You get peace, there's strength.
And I would tell you, the Democrats, they've got a problem on the left. So it's not just us having kind of an isolationist discussion. You've got visible anti Semitism on the left. So we've all got to get serious about the challenges ahead of us.
Engaging in anti Semitic behavior in the United States needs to be stood up to by the administrators of these colleges. Well, we're going to talk about the colleges. Anti Semitism is not just a problem that's unique to one party or another. And anti Semitism is something that the country is facing together.
But I do want to ask you on this issue of the future of the Republican Party, you're saying that it's turned the corner on isolationism. What gives you that confidence when more House Republicans voted against more aid to Ukraine than for it? Well, I'm a minority leader of the Senate, and I can only report how we've done here. We had predicted correctly that if there were votes in the House, it would pass.
And I'm proud of the fact that we got 10 more votes this week than we had two months ago. And I think our members are focusing on the facts. And the facts are that this is in our best interest. This is not some charitable contribution to Ukraine, but 15 said Republicans did vote against it.
So to people who say we're not turning a corner, this is where the party is headed, I think the party is heading in a different direction from them, from the isolationists. Yeah. Let's move on to the tensions in the Middle east that have spilled over across this country. As you reference, we have seen pro Palestinian protests on college campuses all across the country.
House Speaker Mike Johnson was at Columbia University this week. He said, quote, this is dangerous. This is not the First Amendment. This is not free expression.
Do you agree with him? Is that your assessment, too? I think it's a dangerous situation. You said pro Palestinian.
There's also anti Semitism, which is completely unacceptable. I didn't. I've been shocked to see that in this country, first responsibility is the administrations of these colleges. That's the first responsibility.
And so the speaker is correct in saying laying the blame on the administrators. When I was in college, I bet when you were in college, there were plenty of debates, but we were not trying to shut people up and had aggressive civil discussions. That's the responsibility of the college administrators. And to do anything else makes it look like they're sympathetic with one side or the other.
And I think restoring order and civility to have reasonable debates is what needs to happen to the students who are protesting peacefully, though, do they have a right to protest on college campuses? Of course, yeah. But I think people need to understand just the fact that we have the First Amendment doesn't give you the right to scream, fire in a theater and run everybody out. I mean, sure, you're free to speak, but you're not free to harm others with your speech.
I want to talk to you about abortion, which, as you know, is one of the biggest issues for people all across this country right now. Back in 2022, you said a national ban was possible. So as I sit here today, I want to ask you, Leader McConnell, would you support a federal ban on abortion? I said it was possible.
I didn't say that was said it was possible because the Supreme Court has put this back into the legislative arena and we're seeing it play out all across the country. And I think in the end it will reflect the views of these individual states. But I did not say I said possible. I didn't say that was my view.
I don't think we'll get 60 votes in the Senate for any kind of national legislation. I think it's a practical matter. It's going to be sorted out at the state level. If a federal ban came before you for a vote, though, would you Support it?
A 15 week federal ban with exceptions, what Lindsey Graham is proposing? Yeah, I'm not advocating anything at this level. I think it's going to be sorted out all across the country and be very different in different states. So you don't think a federal ban is likely?
You think it's possible? I don't think any federal legislation is likely to get 60 votes in the Senate in any direction. When I talk to advocates, they say they want clarity from the Republican Party on this issue. Should the Republican Party take a stance on whether it supports a federal ban?
At the risk of being redundant, it seems to me views about this issue at the state level vary depending where you are. And we get elected by states and my members are smart enough to figure out how they want to deal with this very divisive issue. Based upon the people who actually send them here. Let's talk about what's going on at the Supreme Court this week.
In 2021, you voted to equate Donald Trump in the second impeachment, saying on the Senate floor, quote, we have a criminal justice system in this country, we have civil litigation, and former presidents are not immune from being held accountable by either one. As we sit here, Donald Trump's attorneys are arguing before the Supreme Court that presidents are immune from criminal prosecution for actions that they take while they are in office. Do you agree with that argument? We're going to find out, aren't we?
I mean, the Supreme Court is going to deal with that direct issue that I was referring to on February 13th of 2021, and I think we'll find out sometime soon. What do you think, Leader McConnell? Do you think that presidents should be immune from criminal prosecution for actions while they're in office? Obviously, I don't think, but it's not up to me to make that decision.
The president clearly needs some kind of immunity or maybe in court all the time. So we'll see how the Supreme Court deals with it. Just to be very clear, you said former presidents are not immune from being held accountable. You stand by those comments?
That was my view, but I don't make that decision. But you stand by this comment. That's my view. But my view is only my view.
I mean, the court is going to decide. Yes, but just to be clear, you stand by those comments? Former presidents are not even for being held. I do, but many times I have to say I'm not on the Supreme Court.
I don't get to make the final decision on that. Do you ever regret your vote to acquit former President Trump in his second impeachment trial? Look, he was not president anymore at that point. There's a big debate about whether or not you could even impeach somebody, remove them from office that they don't hold.
I stick with what I said then. I addressed this issue on January 6th and on February 13th. I stand by everything I said. So do you do not regret your decision to acquit him?
I stand by everything I said when I addressed this issue on January 6th and February 13th. And you have said that you endorse former President Trump. Are you going to vote for him? I said three years ago, shortly after the assault on the Capitol, that I would support the nominee of the party, whoever that was, and I do.
And that includes voting for him. I said it three years ago. I'm not just making News today. I'm simply referring back to what I said shortly after the assault on the Capitol and to those who hear that and wonder how you can support him despite being so critical of him after January 6th.
There's no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of a day, despite saying that we've got to leave this up to the courts. What saying the answer is the Republican voters of this country have spoken. They get to pick nominees for president. So how I'm spending my time is on something I can have an impact on, which is making sure my successor is the majority leader and not the minority leader.
I want to ask you about your legacy. You said just this week that you often feel like the only Reagan Republican left. As you prepare to step down from your leadership position this year, what are your greatest concerns about the future of the Republican Party? Well, I'll tell you, I feel better about it after we had our vote.
I don't know when I said that. It may have been before the vote, but I do think peace through strength, which is the Reagan formula, which is the Eisenhower formula, not the Robert Taft isolationism back in the 40s, is recovering. And I think in this episode, more of my members really focused on the facts. And it's hard to argue against the supplemental.
It's in our interest. This is not charity to Ukraine. It's in our interest. And I think we've sort of refocused on the importance of playing the kind of role that we need to play in the world.
It's in our interest. None of this is charity. The whole Democratic world is in favor of what we did this week. That should get the attention of our members, plus all the jobs that are recreated in their states with the money that we're spending retooling our industrial base for the big challenges ahead against China, against Russia, against Iran.
I hear your optimism. And yet some Republicans say this is the last aid bill that will ever get passed to Ukraine. Can Ukraine count on the United States to stay with it for more support, more aid in the future? Well, just to go back in history one more time.
Before World War II, Robert Taft was the most important republic. Everybody knew who he was, desperately wanted to be president. He opposed Len Lease, and most of the Republican senators did. And then after the war, Pearl harbor changed all that for a few years.
But then after the war, he opposed NATO and the Marshall Plan. He ran for president in 52, fortunately lost. Eisenhower had a totally different view of America's role in the world and what we needed, the role we needed to play. So we've had a tendency to be isolation when we're Democrats in the White House.
But I think that if you look at the condition of the world right now, it's actually more dangerous than before World War II, more because we had terrorism that they didn't have. And yet the leader of the Republican Party espouses an America first foreign policy, which is the very definition of isolationism. What concerns you about that as you prepare to step down from your leadership position? Well, it's a family dispute.
I won't go over the details, but you all had that sort of thing recently as well. It's a family argument and pretty clearly on the non isolationist side. And I tend to do my best to convince my members that that's the way to go. And even after I leave this job, I'm not leaving the Senate.
And this is my principal interest, pushing back against isolation. This is going to be your focus once you step down for leadership. It is. Okay.
Leader McConnell, thank you very much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. When we come back, student protests over the war in Gaza spread across the country.
Will it impact President Biden's reelection campaign? Democratic Senator Tim King of Virginia joins me next. Welcome back. Colleges across the country are grappling with growing tensions over the war in Gaza as protests spread.
More than 200 protesters were arrested at campuses across the country Saturday. US canceled its main commencement ceremony. Join me now is Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, the author of a new book, Walk, Ride, Paddle, A Life Outside. Senator Kaine, welcome back to MEET THE press.
Kristen, great to be with you this morning. Well, it is great to have you, Senator. Let's dive right in and talk about these protests which we've seen on college campuses all across the country. They are not monolithic.
There are pro Palestinian protests. Some of the protests are calling for a ceasefire. We've also seen anti Semitism on some of these college campuses. My question for you this morning, do you think the Biden administration, the president, has a role to play in this moment in addressing what we are seeing in these college campuses?
Kristen, it's a really good question. You know, this is a tough one because people have a right to protest and make their views known. And almost, you know, overwhelming percentages of people do that peacefully. But there are those who intimidate or harass others.
There are those who speak in hate speech or anti Semitism and so giving people the latitude to do what they ought to be able to do and also trying to curb unacceptable behavior is tough. Here's a world I think the president can play. We know of places where maybe these discussions are not being done the way they should be. They're not being done civilly.
But there's also some universities that I think are doing this right. And one of the things that I think it might be important for the president or maybe the Education Secretary, Secretary Cardone, to do is hold up some examples of colleges in the country. And I think there are a number of them where discussions about difficult topics like Israel and Gaza are happening, but happening in a way that really can be a model where people can express their points of view on tough issues but not feel intimidated or harassed because of the positions they hold. So I think the president can use the bully pulpit to kind of hold up some good examples, and I would hope that he and other members of the administration might do that.
Well, let me ask you about how far you think this should potentially go. As you know, Speaker Mike Johnson visited Columbia University this past week, and he said, quote, if this is not contained quickly and if these threats and intimidation are not stopped, he said that the National Guard should be called in. Is that something you would support if the situation escalates on college campuses? Kristen, I think calling in the National Guard to college campuses for so many people would recall what happened when that was done during the Vietnam War and it didn't end well.
The National Guard going on college campuses, Kent State and elsewhere did not end well. And I think that would be a very, very bad idea. I think there are other ways using campus security, but also, again, offer students more opportunities to have dialogue. That is, that is civil and constructive, where people hear one another.
That's by far preferable. So, no, I do not think the National Guard is a solution to this. I want to ask you about the policy now of what is happening in the Middle East. You voted this week for a foreign aid bill that will send more aid to Israel.
It includes about $9 billion in aid for military weaponry. I want to play you something that your colleague, Senator Bernie Sanders has to say. Get your reaction on the other side. Netanyahu and his extremist government are clearly in violation of US and international law and because of that, should no longer receive U.S.
military aid. Is he right? Senator, what's your reaction? So two things.
Senator Sanders voted against the aid package, which was Ukraine aid, Israel defense aid, but also Gaza humanitarian aid. I voted for the package because we need to defend Ukraine. And look, I think the US Needs to help Israel defend itself. You saw, I think it was two Saturdays ago, hundreds of missiles and drones fired by Iran to attack Israel on its soil.
And the US and other nations helped Israel defend itself so that that did not cause damage in Israel, which would only have led to an escalation. So I believe we do need to help Israel defend itself from those who annihilate it, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and others. But we also need to lean on Israel. And we have been doing it increasingly publicly to allow more humanitarian aid to Gaza.
And that was in the package we voted for on Tuesday, to do what they can to reduce civilian suffering. The most important thing, Kristen, right now that we all need to reach is we need to reach a ceasefire and hostage release, release the hostages, get into an extended ceasefire that will then de escalate violence in the region. It will enable us to get more humanitarian aid to Gazans, and it will open up this discussion that is long delayed about a future for Palestine, a future that was promised in 1948, but that's never been realized. Senator, I want to ask you about your book.
Walk, Ride, Paddle. I have it right here. You say in one section of the book 2016, when you were then Secretary Clinton's running mate, taught me some painful lessons about a country I thought I understood. What are the lessons?
How do they apply to this election, particularly when President Biden is losing support among young voters over this very issue? We're discussing the war in the Middle East. A couple of things that I learned along the way. Chris.
I embark on this Virginia Nature triathlon when I turned 60 and celebrated 25 years in public life, 2016. One of the things I learned pretty powerfully is there's still a double standard affecting women. Look, I knew that intellectually. I'm married to a professional woman, and I've seen it in her lives and in the lives of others.
But not until I was on that trail with Hillary and saw a good person and a good public servant, you know, judged more harshly than her opponent in numerous instances. I think I really got a PhD in the continuing existence of a double standard for women. But I also learned on my journey something really important. We are polarized in this country.
In politics, Joe Biden or Donald Trump or Israel or Gaza, there's a lot we disagree on. But we need to remember without sugar coating that there's also a lot of areas where we agree. In nature, you find unity. You find Democrats, Republicans and Independents who all have their favorite place to go to watch a sunset or stream to fish in.
And as Americans, we can't sugarcoat the issues that divide us. But we also need to remember there's a lot of things that we have in common. And I found that on my Virginia nature triathlon. Well, it is a pretty profound message.
It is a good read. Senator TIM Kaine, thank you so much for joining us for your insights this morning. We really appreciate it. You bet.
Thanks, Chrissy. And when we come back, as Donald Trump's criminal trial played out in New York this week, his lawyers argued to the Supreme Court that the president might be immune from prosecution even if they try to overthrow the government. Stay with us. The panel's next.
Welcome back. The panel is here. Jeff Bennett, co anchor of PBS NewsHour Jonathan Martin, Politic politics bureau chief and senior political columnist for Politico, former White House press secretary Jen Psaki, host of Inside with Jen Psaki and Mark Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Pence. Thank you all for being here.
Getting up early the morning after the White House correspondence dinner. Really appreciate it. Jonathan, let me start with you and my exchange with Leader McConnell, which I asked if he stands by his argument that no one is immune. He ultimately said yes, he stands by it.
It comes as we have this extraordinary day of arguments in the Supreme Court. What do you make about it? I thought it was a superb argue. And I think McConnell is Tor between politics and history.
He is he is trying to find a way ahead in a party that's led by somebody who he has nothing but contempt for. McConnel thought Trump was discredited after January 6th. I know he thought that because he told me so that night. And that has proven to be wrong.
And McConnell is now stuck in the, the, the shadows of his career with a nominee and maybe a president who he finds contemptible, who has profound discrimination on policy issues like national security. And he makes that point of view at the end of his career. He's gonna fight this fight on national security because that's what he is trying his legacy is trying to keep that Reagan flame aloft and fighting Trumpism the best he can. And the fact that the only way he can, which is national security.
Yeah, it's just fascinating that he says he's gonna dedicate his time to that. Mark, let me turn to you. You're obviously there. The former vice president Mike Pence on January 6, the top capital you've testified before the grand jury.
But I'm curious for your take because it seems as though based on what we heard at the Supreme Court, it is very likely this case is gonna get kicked back to a lower court that could be on delay, that likely means go to trial before Election Day. What are the implications of that? Well, Chris, I think that most voters have made the decision at this point and I think that the president's actions on January 6, he should be held accountable to the voters. I'm not sure that we should look in for legal system to render a verdict there beforehand.
I think the reality is that from the court's perspective, this is a novel case. I think it's understandable process, but I think the American people should hold accountable. I also think candidly that I think Mitch McConnell entirely consists on this. I do think despite the president's, I think, dereliction of duty on January 6th and many of the advisors around him, at the end of the day, you don't want to be impeaching former presidents when you have a whole weight of the government prosecuting.
You don't have White House counsel's office to defend it. That'd be a terrible precedent. Can I just add on McConnell review, which I thought was also very well done. I mean, he said a lot of things that a lot of people in Congress would probably agree with on a range of positions.
However, he struck me as quite passive for a person who is not passive. He's not a wallflower. He's the Senate minority leader. He's standing through Supreme Court justices.
This guy's not shy. And what it told me is that he is struggling. As Jonathan referenced with this, I want to be speaking out against isolationist. I want to talk about who we are as a country, but I don't want to touch Trump.
And the problem is Trump's views. He's the leader of the party. He's an isolationist. It's intrinsically tied to your success in that effort.
Jeff, what about that argument which I tried to make at the end of the interview? You're saying you're turning the corner on fighting against isolationist. The leader of your party right now is this spousing, an isolationist view? And that was especially pronounced in the matter of January 6th, where we saw the majority leader at the time say that Donald Trump was practically morally responsible for January 6th and but yet he voted to acquit not once but twice when he had the opportunity in those impeachment trials.
And so it's a huge issue. Certainly he's trying to preserve his role within the party and make sure that, as he said, that Republicans were victorious in the election. Well, President Biden made a little bit of news on the state of play this week when he was asked if he would debate former President Trump, here's what he had to take a look. I don't know if you can debate your opponent.
I am somewhere I don't know when I'm happy to be. I'm invited invite to debate. You can do it anytime he wants, including tonight. Johnson, I'm curious tonight I'm curious what Jen Saki reaction White House blurred out during her live interview that he was going to at the bay because Biden folks don't want him to debate.
They don't want to give Trump that platform and whisk exposing Biden like that national TV except I was thinking if I was in my old job from two years ago, you also don't want him to say no because no is weak and no is fear. So you have to say yes. They both have to say yes. Now whether this happens, we all know there's lessons tonight.
If more happens tonight, if Biden does debate, I think it'll be a tell for us this summer that Biden's got grounds makeup still if he does agree to it, that's a revealed he's got to come back still one of the issues that they will undoubtedly both have to deal with if they debate Jeff Bennett is what is happening in the Middle East. We are seeing how fraught that issue is. It's playing out on college campuses all across the country with these protesters. As we've said, they are not monolithic in their messaging but this is something that they have to grapple with.
And we've seen President Biden try to calibrate his message on the one hand condemning anti Semitism college campuses on the other hand defending students rights to protest. I talk to Biden now allies who say that yes these protests are significant. It's unclear right now what the impact will be in large part because the students who are actively engaged in these demonstrations is the Biden campaign sees that they're a subset of a subset of the electorate. If he has any challenges with younger voters, it likely won't be on this issue of the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, likely be on economic issues and high cost living and so on and so forth.
But it really speaks to the ways in which President Biden has a challenge really in trying to keep together this broad disparate coalition of voters. It's a precarious coalition from AOC to the Cheney family. They'll have a lot in common and it's hard to keep all on the same page. I'm young voters Jonathan.
We need to turn out Enforce. Well, that's a real challenge if you go to place like Michigan or Wisconsin and just take college towns there, Ann Arbor, Madison. If you can't keep those folks away from either a third party key that are staying home altogether. There goes Richard, Wisconsin and there goes the presidency.
It's not more complicated than that. Yeah, Jen, you know, a lot of people have noted President Biden hasn't come out and sort of made formal remarks about this yet. Does he need to? Which is my point.
I put to Senator Kane. Do you anticipate he's going to announce some executive action or policy on this? Well, he did announce he's going to go speak at Morehouse University in a couple weeks. And that is, that is a significant decision.
There were undoubtedly protesters there. That in itself is a statement. I want to go in and be in the belly of where people are feeling this passionate emphasis. I do think we just echo what Jess said.
It's important when you're single White House, you're singing on campaign. You're very mindful of what you're seeing among people on college campus. What you're also mindful of is things like the Harvard, Iowa people where the economy and housing costs, that is the number one issue for young people in these polls. And you have to be mindful of that as well as well as people experiencing anti Semitism across the country.
Now, I do find it a little ironic when people like Mitch McConnell who's like not talking about Trump's ego and killer anti Semitism, the Democratic Party. But that aside, it is an issue. So you have to factor all those things politically and also factor everyone war and war. I think that the leaders of our higher education institutions are so collectively cowards today.
I think the University of Florida is going to give you conception which they allow both free speech in protection students. I find it fascinating to see how many LGBT people are aligning with the Palestinian protests when in honorable Hamas or most Muslim countries they'd be sentenced to death and killed and yet in Israel to have the same rights of their other citizens. Yet they're lying with Palestinian protesters on most of these campuses. We have about 30 seconds left, but quickly, I mean, Speaker Johnson says the National Guard should potentially be called in.
Senator 10 Hayesa, that would be a huge mistake. I agree with that. But I think they made this house reflect they're eight Americans still being held hostage. Kristen, why are we, why are, who are these protesters out there protesting against people who are actually many of them are protesting the 30,000 people who die in Gaza but it is, it is not one singular side.
It is a hugely complicated issue. We will continue to discuss and debate it. Thank you for a wonderful conversation. When we come back, President Biden shows his sense of humor.
The White House correspondent Senator will have the highlights next. Welcome back. President Biden took on his age and his campaign rival at the White House correspondence dinner last night. The 2024 election's in full swing and yes, age is an issue.
I'm a grown man running against a six year old. But look, age is the only thing we have in common. My vice president actually endorses me. Biden, who has held fewer news conferences than his predecessors, also roasted the journalists in the room.
Some of you complain that I don't take enough of your questions. No comment. While attendees celebrated the First Amendment at the dinner, inside pro Palestinian demonstrators outside the Washington Hilton protested the president's handling of the war in Gaza. Our friend and colleague Kelly o', Donnell, who is the president of the White House Correspondents association and a senior White House correspondent, used her remarks to bring attention to journalists who've been captured or killed for doing their jobs.
Evan Grozkovich, Austin Tice. And reporters who have been killed in Gaza. She also highlighted the need to preserve press access. My gratitude is multiplying because this week marks a career anniversary for me, 30 years with NBC News.
We believe that independent professional journalists on hand to document the events of a presidency are stewards of something precious, more enduring than any news cycle or trending topic. We preserve the historical record, part of the legacy of the First Amendment. In her 30 years at NBC News, which she marched this week, Kelly has covered four presidential administrations, seven election cycles, and has been a frequent panelist on Meet the Press. So congratulations to Kelly and the entire White House Correspondents association for another great evening highlighting the importance of journalism in a free press and for awarding scholarships to the next generation of journalists.
When we come back, the six year old who became a tiny but mighty symbol of bravery in the fight to desegregate schools. Our Meet the Moment conversation with Ruby Bridges is next. Welcome back. At just six years old, Ruby Bridges became a civil rights icon simply for attending her school, which was newly desegregated in 1960.
Bridges and her mother had to be escorted by federal marshals under the loud jeers of segregationists who protested her pursuit of a basic education. Over the past 25 years, Bridges has been visiting schools all around the country and replying to the letters of students who've sought her advice. Some of that correspondence is now in a New book. Dear Ruby, Here are Hearts.
I recently sat down with Ruby Bridges for a meet the moment conversation. She describes the painful experience she had as a little girl at one point using a racial slur, words she heard at the time as she speaks in deeply personal terms. Thank you for being here. It's a real honor to be able to talk to you.
I want to start off by talking about this beautiful book that you have written in which you answer the letters that children have written to you. What do you hope people will take from your book? You know, it took me back to being six years old and thinking about what I was going through. And I think we as adults, we underestimate the minds of our little ones because I know that I was having these really grown up adult thoughts.
I mean, I was thrust into the middle of a situation that no six year old should be put in and I was really thinking about all those things. And so when I started to read some of these letters, I thought, wow, things really haven't changed all that much. We are still underestimating our kids. They are still concerned about grown up issues and I heard their hearts.
Take me back to what that was like for you. When you were 6 years old, you were being escorted by US Marshals into a school that was newly desegregated. You had to sit in a classroom all by yourself. What was that walk to school like for you?
You know, my parents never explained to me what I was about to venture into. The only thing they said is, were you going to go to new school today and you better behave? And living in New Orleans and being accustomed to Mardi Gras, I mean, we see that during Mardi Gras, huge crowds, screaming and yelling. So I often say what protected me was the innocence of a child.
I thought that day I was venturing it to a Mardi Gras parade. So I wasn't afraid. It took a while before I really found out that the crowds were out there for me. And that happened when I finally had an opportunity to meet another child.
Tell me about that. Well, kids were being hidden from me. There were some white parents who tried to send their kids to school with me, but they were never protected by federal marshals like I was. So they had to cross that picket line and they were being attacked.
So even if they were not racist, it would probably be very hard for them to send their child. But they did few of them and the principal was part of the opposition, so she would take them and hide them so they would never see me. And I wouldn't see them. But once I got into the classroom and met these other kids, a little boy said, I can't play with you.
My mom said not to because you're a nigger. And the minute he said that, everything sort of came into focus for me. That it wasn't money brown, that the crowd out there was out there because of me and the color of my skin. After you realized what these crowds were saying to you, how did you feel going to school every day, walking past them?
What was that like for you? I would not really focus on them. I would block them out. And mainly because I loved school, I never missed a day.
And that was because of my teacher. Had an amazing teacher who came from Boston to teach me. She was white. Barbara Henry.
Barbara Henry. I mean, there were days when if you opened the window because we didn't have air conditioning, you could hear them screaming and shouting and chanting. And she would go to the window and close the window and say, oh, today we're gonna have music, you know. It was little things that she did that made me love school.
I knew that if I just got past the crowd, that it was a short walk and into the building, I was gonna have a great day. What goes through your mind when you hear these debates unfold all in schools across the country about what should be taught, what should be read, what shouldn't be, access to books? What do you think about? Well, I think that's ridiculous.
I mean, most of my books have been banned. And the excuse that I've heard them give is that my story actually makes especially white kids feel bad about themselves. But I believe that it's just an excuse not to share the truth, to cover up history. But I believe that history is sacred, that none of us should have the right to change, alter history anyway.
Are you afraid that not just your history, but the history of civil rights is being threatened in this country? Yes. Those things are what we live with today. The history, all the subject matter that they want to ban, it's happening in the world.
We cannot live in a bubble, put blinders on like it's not happening. And if we think that we are actually fooling our kids by banning books, oh my God, where are we really? Because kids have computers, they have so much information at their fingertips. I have to go to my grandbaby to say, tell me what's happened, open my phone, do this, whatever, all of us.
So we're not, we're not hiding anything from our young people. If you could talk to the six year old, Ruby Bridges, what would you say to her on that first day of school? I would just say, Ruby, it's okay. Don't worry.
It's all going to be fine. It's gonna work out. Ruby Bridges, thank you so much. Thank you.
Really powerful conversation there. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
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