Are bureaucrats a force for good? With Michael Lewis and Gillian Tett (Part Two)

The concept of government is under attack. In the United States, Donald Trump has fired tens of thousands of federal workers; ignored congressional statutes; insulted judges; and allowed Elon Musk, the world’s richest man, access to sensitive government information in a slash-and-burn campaign against the US government. In June 2025 Michael Lewis, the renowned author of bestselling non-fiction masterpieces including Moneyball, The Big Short, Flash Boys and Liar’s Poker, came to the Intelligence Squared stage to tell the inside story of how the Trump administration is dismantling the government and how potentially disastrous the consequences for us all might be. Drawing from his new collection of essays Who is Government? The Untold Story of Public Service, Lewis argued that we must remember the often overlooked ways government officials do work that is deeply consequential to our lives. He shared impactful stories of public service, such as the story of a coal miner devoted to making mine roofs less likely to collapse and an Internal Revenue Service agent fighting tax evasion like a character straight out of a crime thriller. --- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices