This is the place where the games collide, Dennis Moore, Samiost, can you be joining me on the show? We have Shelton Spike and Nick. What's happening? FIFA was backstage.
Yeah, he's on the stage. He'll, I guess, be on in a second. But we are here to catch up on everything that has happened since we have departed in the NBA with the Nick Spacer's Wolves Thunder. So and then we're going to get into a couple of NFL updates.
So without further ado, let's get into our best of the week. Yo, yo, yo, my best of the week, man. I had to go with, which is going big. Can't I have to?
I had to. I had to, man. Can't have the game of his life. I'm sorry, 20 in the fourth quarter.
Yes. And he had like eight rebounds. Can't have the game of his life. And I was really impressed that he stepped up at a time when you needed him the most he showed up.
Because that was a game that they were out of. Russell didn't have it going. He couldn't get going for nothing. Cat stepped up and put the team on his back and carried him a victory.
So shout out to Catman. That was the best performance of the week. Otherwise, we'd be having a different conversation tonight. Well, we'll be having a similar conversation tonight, actually.
Well, anyway, OK, yeah, that was an all-time performance by him. It's what the playoffs are all about. And these are the moments that helped make your name. And Cat, that was pretty awesome by him.
But let's continue, man. I think rolling into that, let's talk about this series. The Indiana Pacers shot the world by taking an early 2-0 lead against New York Knicks on the road. However, the Knicks bounced back from being down 20 points to game three to avoid an 0-3 hole in the series and are now playing in a pivotal game four.
Do we need? This first question I'm going to skip. Then I want to jump to Tyree Salabur and because, well, I don't know. Nick, you might have some thoughts on it.
So I'll open with, do we need to have an update a conversation about Tom DeBado? I'll start off with says, yes. Only because, but not in the way that y'all think I'm going to do it. Because I know y'all think this is going to be my Nick Swong song episode.
Because I know a lot of y'all hating ass niggas is talking to the chat. Tell me, where's Brone Bruck? So every time you ask that, what happens? You had a bitch.
That's what I mean. No, no, no, I asked genuinely because I didn't see him in the game. I thought he was hurt. That's what I was doing.
Don't do that. No, no, no. No, so I bring up Tom DeBado because, again, me and people had a conversation right when the catch rate happened in the offseason, that based off the time that they had on the next roster, each of the conference finals was their brolym. They had to get there.
They did. To everyone's surprise. Granted, there was some injuries along the way, but injuries aren't part of the game. But they've gotten here.
And now I'm at a weird place loop where it's like, you know how like, let's say that gets you to the NFC Championship game, right? I won't go have a Nick. I'm just saying, I'm just stop there. And you just might can't be.
Let's say that gets you to the, but then they get blown out in the NFC Championship game, right? How are you feeling about that as a court? Because he's taking you to a point where you've had probably wanted him to get there and I haven't probably been to a title game in decades, I feel like. 25 years.
So just like how to make up for conference finals in about 25 years. So it's like, so your expectations will be like, he's exceeded them. However, he has now your expectations have changed based off that run at the same time. So I made a weird place where it's like, I have to give credits of tips, but based on how this game will end, which I think whoever wins this game is going to win the series.
It's a weird place because he could go from shine to shit real quick, but a lot of New Yorkers. What could he have done differently in your opinion on Nick, like to not be looked at that way? What could he have done differently in the series? You had to win game one.
You had to win game one. And I know it's hard to kind of say that that loss was on him because the players took their foot off the gas, but as a head coach, again, as I mentioned before the series started, I think you pointed out to Rick Carlisle is what's the best coach coming into this series. Based on how he was using these motherfucking challenges, it's showing like he dandered undefeated with the challenge. He was one day low today.
I'm the same, but let's say he dandered. This is challenges to me. I'm like going on fourth down and it's like he's got like 90% record on it. So it's like he's out coaching them and his depth is killing the Knicks to the point where he attached to it.
He hasn't done granted. He's adjusted, but you had to win game one. I'm glad they won game three, but he had to make adjustments for that. It's a weird series for him.
It's like he's playing on his back foot. He's playing on his heel. He's back pedaling and he's not really like there hasn't been a point in this series so far. You feel like tears really outcoast Carla.
It's been like the other way around. I think that I think people really just don't know Indiana and how well they play as a unit, as an office of unit and just everything that they do, which is a credit to the Riccar Laut, which kind of is spotlighting Thibs in this pivotal moment where coming in, you would think that they would have the advantage because they have names that we know and then they have another guy who's supposed to knock he as good as up. Even though statistically this season, he had the data to back it up, which is interesting how the media pick and choose who they prop up. I think that this is how this is just Thibs MO.
We always know that he plays six or seven guys heavy and he doesn't utilize his bench. I think we're starting to see possibly a trend where that may no longer be the case, where you start playing non-players instead of seven. You add to that. He hasn't just did.
He's playing guys, but they, and you can tell me better than I would know, Nick, whether or not they play enough to where you can count on them in moments in a playoff game. Do they have a rhythm? Do they know when to cut and all this other stuff? They don't have any chemistry with the players and these are hot stakes moments.
Every single second in the NBA playoffs are hot stakes moments. Every turn over is crucial. When he's putting those guys out there, to me that is a win for the Pacers because these guys are used to playing like that. It's possible one of those guys to show up and become a hero, a folk hero that we have in the playoffs, but it's also possible that they be a negative.
I think Thibbs is just one of those old school guys. I don't know if we need to have that conversation about him just yet because the series is far from over. So we'll see how it goes, but he's made the adjustments. Let's just see what Rick Carlisle do to counter that.
And if Thibbs has another counter offensive to that. Have you mentioned the adjustment though? Or was his hand forced? Because let's be honest, when Bronson has been on the bench is when they made the two biggest runs in their, in their, in this playoff run.
They made the two biggest runs with Bronson on the bench. I don't know if that is a pivotal adjustment or a pivotal just having to go to guys because guys have dead legs right now. You know what I'm saying? And that's a byproduct of his coaching throughout the regular season.
You know what I'm saying? You also look at the product that's on the floor. When Bronson is out there, it's very point guard centric. It's hard.
Look, as a former point guard that had to do a lot of carrying on his high school squads, that is hiring. And that's partly why you see Jalen Bronson getting fouled from. Because what did I say about Anthony Edwards in that second half of I want to say it was game two or maybe game one when he came out scorching and the second half they slowed him down. You got to wear offense for him.
So that way it's easier for his legs not having to dribble up the ball. They get, you get double team. Now you got to figure all of this stuff out. Get off the ball, go run some offense, get him in spots where he can now be devastating.
Right? Instead of always having to play pick a role, pick a role, pick a role, pick a role, pick a role. That is tiring. And it's not like he doesn't have a physical superpower.
He's not tall or stronger faster than the guards he's playing against. Right? He is an average guy. That's the reason why he's an underdog because he ain't supposed to be doing what he's doing.
A lot like Isaiah Thomas, but Boston, not the original Z, you know what I'm saying? I'm talking about a five nine guy. Like what superpower does he have? General Bronson is extremely clutch.
He's not going to blow by you. He's not going to dunk on you. He don't have those extra gears. So that means that he has to work just harder naturally.
So you got to make the game easier from I don't think Dibidos doing that in the conversation around Dibidos, in my opinion, still hasn't necessarily changed. He's got to win a championship. He's done everything else that there is to do as a coach outside of doing that. So for me, but keep his job in New York, he got to win a championship.
I didn't necessarily say that. I said for Dibidos career, I feel like he has to win a championship because he's been a great head coach. For him to keep his job, I think he's done enough now to keep his job. I was a good ass kid.
Career aside, if Nick's evaluating the season, he's done enough to be back next year, right? 100%. But at the same time, those conversations need to be held. We need to run the roster a little bit deeper.
Because if you need your guys to beat her in the end, they can't run as many minutes the way that he plays them. We can't have games where you're going to play some of the guys. That's not going to work. I think you can have games where you do run seven.
You just can't do it every game. Regular season? Regular season? But that's what I was saying.
Dibidos issue is that he don't have his guys late because he runs a ragged in the regular season. And then I have the legs. So the playoffs. I'm okay with that at times.
A game or two that your guys got to go in, whatever, whatever, right? I'm okay with that. But not in a regular season? Yeah, no.
In a regular season, you let guys play and you kind of figure out the rotations a little bit more because you know you kind of pace yourself through the season to get to the end. I think that he's trying to make adjustments. You're right. I think he's hands were forced to make these adjustments.
And when he's set, when we saw Bruts and Sid, when he got in foul trouble, he was like, oh, okay. He's got, you know, they didn't lose it for me. So it kind of built up his trust, whereas it could have been built up all season had to be letting him play more. My thing to him in my advice, which of course he won't be my advice, but I would think he should play McBride a little bit more with Bronson.
Like you said, it takes him a pressure off the ball handling. And the fact that McBride is not here at all too. He's not afraid to shoot a basketball. And then I know you got two small guards, but at this day and age, this position is basketball.
Anyway, you can help out from the back because you got two bigger guys behind you. You can play those two guys together and you probably should take some of ball handling pressure off Bronson. It's kind of like sitting in without sitting in this way. I would consider it.
Is this a question? Is it? Go ahead. I was just wondering, is this a question about him coaching the Knicks?
Or is this a question about Tim and I was legacy? Because he's not coaching the Knicks. It's for me. It's just about the Knicks.
If he's some coaching, he's done his job and he's done enough to be back next year. A lot of the things that I feel like free fold and show and what we're saying. And even even you, Nick is like, we're talking about his legacy and wondering, can he change? Like that's never going to, that's his MO.
He's been doing this in Chicago. He's not going to change from doing it. If you can win a championship from doing it, then yeah, people will have him in higher regard. But Tim, Tim, it's who he is.
Like the Knicks just have to decide he's gotten us to the Eastern Conference Finals. Oh, yes, we cool with keeping him here and let him do the thing that he does. When players down, play seven players, like he's never going to change it. I don't think that there's any adjustment that's going to be made to Tom Timbitt as a coach to make him be revered more in history.
Like no, like he is what he is. Like he's one of the middle NBA coach above average to good. And that's what he's going to be. He'll never be like a Phil Jackson or Pat Riley.
He's not going to be one of those legendary coaches. That'll never be the case. So if the Knicks go on, I mean, not Knicks, if the Pacers go on to win this series, how will we look back on Tyree's Halliburton? Like, and do you guys think he's a top five point guard in the league right now?
I definitely go ahead. I was going to say first of all, James, you need to correct this thing. And he ain't leading three one right now. That's not the right thing.
Let me go ahead. Let me go ahead. I thought that was funny. I thought that was funny.
Go ahead. So I would wait, wait, what was the question we get? Was he top five top five point guard? I would have to say so.
And the reason I would say so is one he's in the Eastern Conference Finals, too. You think about how they got to the Eastern Conference Finals and the mountain shots that he hits for this team. He is important for this team. And every game you see him contributing one way or another, either it would be, he got 10 assists in the game.
He almost had a triple double in the first half of this game. Big moments take big players. And he steps up and makes plays when it matters most. And these aren't just regular run of the meal plays.
It's one thing that his shot, Jysco, this guy is running back to the three point line to take a three point shot to win the game as opposed to trying to tie a game. You can't say much about that. He has nerves of steel and he's proven that he's ready. And now is the time.
I don't see how he can't be in the finals. And I don't see how there's a possible, but it's a possibility I can't see how. But there's a possibility he could come out a champion at the end of this. So I think so.
I think definitely we got to put it. I'm going to break see anyone in the series at all. So I'll be going to the championship. I think he, I think, see if I got here, you got to do one of these days, a top five point guard list currently in the NBA.
I don't know if you've done that yet. I'm not current, but I would think he would be high in consideration because right now thinking him, K Brunson, SGA, and I don't forget somebody. We disrespecting it. You ain't forget nobody.
Nick, who you got? That was four right there. I'm trying to think of who the last one. How you trying to think of it?
I was going to say, look before I thought about Curry. But either way, Halliburton is in that conversation. He's debatable, especially what he's doing this year. I think it's crazy how the fact that we don't talk about Indiana at all.
And I say, I mean, everybody, not just, you know, even us. We don't talk about any Indiana like that. And they've been the back. They've been on the same trajectory as the Minnesota Timberwolves, like back to back conference finals.
And of course, we don't get to a conversation about how much we talk about their best player. But as far as Minnesota, I hate, I'll say this, I hate his guts. I can't stand, however, he ain't shit to me. But I respect him.
I respect them because even though he got that goofy ass shot, it go in. And it's not like they're not defending it. Well, sometimes they need to mix me with that. He's my fucking shoot wide open threes.
But like, he's just, he is that good. But in an old conventional way, almost like a he's rondo with an offense, in my opinion. Like he maybe not with a rebound on like that. But he can somehow control the game without having to score too much.
Because people always talked about like he could score like 10 points in a game and have 15 assists and he feels like he was all over the court. So I'll give him that respect. But no, I hate his guts. I want him to lose everything.
I want nothing good to have until. I always got to get kicked out again. That's why. Last Tuesday, we were talking about, or I was saying how you can't stop a pure point guard, right?
And this is exactly what I was talking about. Also you look at Jelly Brunson, the game that they won. He had 20 some of my points only had one assist. That's also something that I talked about.
And he's a volume score. And that assists for the way that the New York Knicks play. Don't matter. What matters for Jelly Brunson and the New York Knicks can Jelly Brunson get 20 plus shots up?
Can he score 20 plus points? And as he cuts down the stretch and for the Indiana Pacers, it's Tyree's Halliburton, you know, playing playmaker point guard type basketball. Because he's arguably the best playmaking point guard in the NBA, arguably the best playmaking point guard. And I will get to current players before basketball season is over Nick.
All that being said, Tyree's Halliburton is definitely like we have to have that conversation. And Ken to the point, I think you were, or I think Mickey was also saying this as well. Like we don't talk about Indiana. This is the issue that NBA has with small market teams because no matter their success, sometimes we don't talk about them, even with Janice in it, right?
Like when we talk about Janice, even OKC. I think there are always things to talk about. Yeah. It just depends on the game.
Go ahead. No, go ahead. No, I get what you're saying, and I know what you're saying because Indiana kind of flew under the radar all year long because you have what Cleveland was doing. So Cleveland took a lot of the attention of what Boston already is.
So we talked about Cleveland and Boston somewhere that everything else just kind of fell about ways that we couldn't talk about the Knicks because they was over whatever against all the top teams this year. So nobody was talking about any of these teams for Indiana just molded along under the radar. So now when it matters most, they weren't playing that great either though. It was like a lot of teams in the second half of the season kicked it into gear.
It wasn't like it was a third of all this record. And that's a conversation on it, right? It's Indiana went to the Easter Conference Finals this year that's struggling with Indiana. Boom.
You know, when the season is going, when the season is happening and things are going on, there's a storyline I believe in it with every franchise. You know, it's just whether or not people care enough or if you have people that's following following close enough to pick something out to the point where it could be a group conversation like this. I see what you're saying Spike, but I think that is the detriment of mainstream media because they only hyper focus on market teams because there's a higher number of viewers in that area that would tune in to hear them talk about their teams. But I think there is riches and initiatives as they say in those concentrated areas because shit, you guys don't want to end up that's talking about us.
You know what I'm saying? So they would flop. I'm not going to talk about it. That's the point.
To the question about Tari Saliburton, I want to agree with something Fufo said the reason that he is top is because he's one of the few if not the only guard that does what he does. I'm not worried about points. Every other top one that we talk about now and it's a evolution of the game. It's not no fault to them.
But they're thinking about scoring first, pass and second. How about this really the only person that can score that's thinking about getting his teammates involved. That's the reason he's so good. That's the reason he's top five.
And it was part because he got treated like he was a. Like Steve Broke. He got treated like a lesser than player because he got treated by Sacramento Sacramento Indiana is not just not interested. Like no one cares about Pascal C.
Ockham and like Steve like he plays like Steve Urkel Halliburton. Like no one wants to talk about that. If we come in here on a weekly basis in October and November when the season starts football is in full effect. If Indiana is doing well, we don't care.
Like just like we're Cleveland this year. That one the best record in the league. No one cared to talk about them because it's Cleveland and LeBron's not there. So to Ken's point, there is a problem in media with talking about teams like Indiana teams like Cleveland teams like Milwaukee because outside of their specific fan bases really no one cares.
It's not a national talking point. It's not a media thing though. It's organizational thing. It's organizational thing.
Indiana would rather be mediocre and be in playoff purgatory versus crashing out and being so bad that they are now drafting high. And we know that they are also a market that is not free agent friendly. You look at some of the bigger markets like they are free agent friendly but they also swing for the fences. We talked about Luke and the Lakers all year because it was a massive trade.
The bigger franchises we talked about New York getting cat. They won that trade. We talked about cat being a difference maker for New York at the beginning of the season. Big cities for the most part.
Swing big and then we talked about last year when they was traded to Milwaukee and they were now a championship contender. They got that coverage for a year. I don't think we talked about them like we talked about like what's wrong with the Lakers what's wrong with the Cowboys. It's like there are teams that you can specifically speak about and you know people are going to react to it.
The league like Indiana. I'm sorry real quick. Indiana probably has one of the best situations in the Eastern Conference. Like people would rather talk about Boston's going to do but it's not sexy because Tyden is hurt and Brown and these but it's not sexy though because I believe in the end of the season.
So why would we talk about it though? But that's a difference. But that's a difference. But that's a difference.
Boston drafted their big two right. Nobody on this pace or also was drafted by Indiana. But it ain't even that people. What it makes far goes down to is the marketing of sports and when we talk about this we talk about even back in the day you know before cable and all this stuff we have now internet.
You only had a few teams that were on TV. You only had a few teams that you could watch. That's why you have so many Cowboys fans all over the world. So Dallas was on every week.
That was a national team. You have Yankees fans everywhere because the Yankees were on all the time. You know here we saw the Braves. So a lot of us are Braves fans because that's how we saw.
So you've got teams that are national teams that got airplay all the time. We never saw the Pacers. If you didn't have cable you didn't see any other paces. You saw the Knicks on the Bulls.
No you saw that. You saw the Knicks on the plate for me. That's what I'm saying. If you didn't if you if you're regular regular people out you didn't see the paces you saw the Knicks the Bulls.
National teams were Lakers Sixers nicks bulls. So that's pretty much it. And yes. I don't know if I was going to say I don't disagree.
But at the same time you look at. I'm like Miami talk about Miami. Why because they swing for the fences they went and got Jimmy Butler they went and over a cheese and went to to NBA finals runners right like they're still other franchises that aren't necessarily in the in the guaranteed media space right because I don't disagree Chicago super big market LA New York Boston Philly that's guaranteed media. They don't matter if they're good or bad or they don't know we're going to talk about them move them to the side.
Let's talk about the Miami's the Houston's let's talk about the San Antonio's right like like those those bigger mid market teams that aren't always necessarily guarantee for the most part they swing for the fences and or have drafted guys that we're going to talk about. And that's the reason why in Vienna don't get talked about they traded for Tyree's Halliburton the only person out of their core that that was drafted by them is the big man mouths turner the rest of them they shot from and then they weren't sexy names. Pass the album was in a sexy name. So they don't make sexy news which is why they don't get talked about.
Yeah. No, I was going to say that last part you said is really what it is and the reason being is a lot of the players that we talk about the sexy names don't want to go to the mid market teams they're not going to like I'm a hornet fan will forever be stuck in purgatory because unless we draft these players we're not going to get an opportunity. And that's why I say it's organizational. I don't know if Tyree's is top five yet we'll see you know maybe we can update the list but either way ago what I will say before we move on is that villains bad guys you know Halliburton doing the chokes on made him put him in the spotlight it was a moment and something that people can remember and anniversary to yeah and I watched Indiana patients because they had a star in Reggie Miller you know they had really Miller that the David's boys richness I watched those guys and they were still a team so you know if you went and you're successful and you got guys in a marketable you know people follow but anyway but yeah we're going to leave with their man and we'll come back with our next conversation the topic of today's show we're going to talk about the Timmerwolves and we have to say that you guys been waiting for that.
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Welcome back to the show it's time for on watch. The player I haven't watched this week Anthony Edwards and this isn't about how good he is. This isn't a question whether or not he can play or any of those things like that but this is his second appearance in the West of Confidence Finals and he is not showing up and he is not having his experience. I know OKC is the better team I pick OKC to win this series because they have been the best team in the NBA all season long but that was a winnable game last night and he put up 16 points.
In game one he only scored five points in the second half. What do you think you're going to have the whole playoff round we were just talking about it and he just went in my yeah he scored 30 you know in an only game that they won but what do they mean nothing absolutely nothing that game last night that's when you make your moment that's when you go out and show what you can do. I think to the Western Confidence Finals isn't anything to disrespect. At these moments they come and go and at the end of it they won't mean shit because nobody will ever really remember it just won't.
So his job he has to win a title. So on this program there's been a conversation about you know God's story now there's a story developing about it. He has a marketability he talks a lot but sometimes that mouth get him in trouble. So what is he going to do moving forward as a player and as a highly marketable and a player in the NBA you know that has all the skill sets and everything that he needs.
Will he get back here because yeah you went to the West McConviz but if you know you played a Lakers team with a rookie coach you played a Warriors team with without Curry. So we put an asterisk by this run but your mouth got you in trouble last year because you were talking about a damn because you talked shit about Kari and then he put you out. And all this stuff is good man it sounds good and you hear but I got to watch bro because people are hyping you up and that was all about getting it done and what is this story going to be. Can we have his final appearance or is he going to be a champion?
His mouth got him in trouble. He's in the trike. Hey Kyle let me ask you this do you think that if we had the type of media coverage that we did today this is the type of scrutiny that Michael Jordan would have got. Not making it.
He was. He was like I remember that. He can. What I'm saying is the media wasn't like it is now.
Like we were not necessarily calling for saying we were saying he's on watch. Like Jordan was still great. Jordan got a lot of passes. You got to remember they were saying that about Jordan they were saying he was a selfish player.
They were saying he was a player. They were saying he was a player. I was like they were talking about him like that. I'm not saying that they weren't but I feel like we're okay and obviously this is where it becomes unfair to compare arrows right because the media now like we're because us regular five dudes we're considering media now right like it wasn't like that back then but at the end of the day I don't know if Jordan got enough criticism at least definitely not like how these guys listen.
He got even more on right now like I remember going to the bar. Oh that's different. Yeah yeah. That was it wasn't.
It wasn't when I was supposed to illustrate it. Yeah. It's a totally different conversation. The bar was on what's illustrated pages if what if 15 he was a sophomore they were saying he was the best basketball player in the world.
Yeah. It was just different. Yeah. We can get it to a large conversation.
Well yeah let's talk about the series now. But I just I'm watching them now. Still my favorite players I still got him as that top dog but now I'm watching the career bro you know and I still love everything about it. The thing again the thing the account because like I told Jordan in our group chat the YouTube comments the subreddit they was calling on a some of these niggas was gassing up and man and he over here shitting a bit.
The thing about me personally I'm not going to speak for nobody else. I like being early to the part you know saying while the DJ still setting up Sheldon while the ice is you know somebody still got to go get ice I'm at the doorway in the line first and foremost. I the fact that this man is only 23 and has been the back to back Western Conference Finals this early in the States career the fact that we have these expectations for him this early in his career says a lot about him the fact that he still is developing and still getting better as a player says a lot about him. Were we wrong or was I wrong about his level play for this series we'll see you know say the series like over here.
Let's see if you read a score 10 points we may be talking about a time series but for me it's just that I look at him as someone who is going to be defensively because people are already talking about that and while he should be held accountable because 16 points ain't going to cut it in the playoffs especially in this conference finals. I do like the fact that he has a mentality of like I can be the greatest or I can be great and nobody in front of me can stop me from that happen. Right now OK see is but I don't mind saying that this cat is going to be something he's probably going to be top three or the best player in the league over the next four or five years to see but as far as what he's doing in this series is inconsistent you know the last time we spoke about this series we were literally watching the middle of game one and Ken and a few others were and I be was also saying that too when he was on the show don't overreact to game ones and a lot of us were reacted in real time y'all saw us to that game one and we saw the highs and lows of it but I just think that right now going into the season after that trade with the Knicks no one thought that Minnesota was going to be here and there here again no one thought that and Julia's Randall can make a deep playoff series run and they're here even going back to last year no one thought that Denver could be can lose in the five and seven game series show until we saw them do it you know and he was their best player on that team so it's just like I like where he's going I feel like I can we can see the projector of him being a champion eventually maybe multi you know multi-time champion but I don't think that people should really be looking at him differently or shitting on him heavily because of this series because it's like again Kim was trying to say that oh yeah just because you got two West of college finals and Hans like they're gonna be shit if you want to check we can say that a lot of mama that's in the hall of fame and all the shit you know I'm saying but at the same time we're gonna talk about it like that all right well I mean let me let me send a vote on so the Oklahoma City Thunder one a close game against the Minnesota Temple World Memorial Day evening 128-1 in 26 they now have a 3-1 lead in the series with the potential to clinch the series at home in game five what has been the most surprising thing about each team that you're noticing the series and do we need to have a updated conversation about Anthony at least I'm gonna say this real quick I think it is doing the injustice and I get why people are coming from but I think it's still in justice in a way because it's not like it's came forward Jason Tatum is waiting he had a better team and like he did he went back to back the Eastern Conference Finals y'all started coming from the same thing more recently back then nobody was really coming from and why why is because he was going up against LeBron he was in the Eastern Conference like it was a minute before he broke through like I don't get why is getting all this pressure and like Nick said nobody even expected him to be here do he has an excellent coach you don't even talk about his coach so you don't expect that do we think the piece around him or a shravian no like he's facing a better team and like y'all are making it seem like they work like the team itself they just fail flat yesterday it was still a close game until the fourth quarter it was just going over 120 120 points like right right right right like he making the argument though you make an argument for me yeah he fell flat the team did not flat the coach came through had a great game man he fell flat and then he just missed that by saying oh I think I play the smart game that's not like no you look at somebody made the smart plays and if he didn't make the smart plays but he didn't know but he didn't know that's passing the book like so he like a score and the person that we're considering Anthony Edwards to be is going to be more aggressive in a game like this like that's just a matter of fact I don't care what he said about making the right plays that's some young niggas shit that's some old I'm passing the book to my teammates we know that if he wanted to score if he wasn't shooting well if his shot went going in if they were like closing the lanes and closing the cutting lanes like he said he's going to drive to the basket if he's being aggressive and he's going to force himself to get at least to the frekle line every superstar doesn't we've been seeing this year for 20 years and he's getting a superstar there's not one superstar that can't force themselves to the line because we know they're gonna get calls so him passing the book like that and acting like oh I was just making the right play that's unacceptable for what we expect out of him that's why I'm not giving him that's not true either that's not true because the back to the table point when he forces it we also say we also come up when Russell does a lot of criticism I just think for running like running like running like 100% the whole game like he's playing through the game I think it is a mindset and like I said it may be some young niggas shit and I had to argue with somebody earlier today about people are forcing what they accepted from what the media told them and what the world told them to be and not a matter everybody else will push it back and be like bro that's not what it has to be like this idea of saying that other people did it it doesn't make sense and it's not working for the team because the people's a selfish player didn't even be like bro you just chucking up shots and if you're in an efficient things will be like he's the reason why they lost he can't win for losing this situation I'm not completely I'm just saying this you know you know what you know you don't put it all on him but here's what you do doc you put a majority of it on him because according to most including himself he's a leader this team so when you are the leader the team you expected to lead this team to the problems land in my that's what I would think so and you had three players to score with 20 points so he had all the help you need we could talk about Randall not scoring all day long you had people step up and have career days like I said we had Alexander Walker with a career day you had even Chenzo scoring the best buckets you had McDaniel's hit buckets all he had to do was do his part and then after the game what you say when you're a leader that's all me man I got to play better that's what I would expect him to say he tell you all the other times how great he is that's why I come for him because he talked about how good he is I said a couple weeks ago but when he and I brought it up I'm not again I'm not excusing him for the 16 point game and they lost by two my thing is that he scored three times more than Julius Randall did and that's his second best player on the team right but let me finish my point him scoring 16 points is not enough in any playoff game especially when he scored over 30 in game three like him dropping out 16 obviously wasn't enough however in this particular game four because every game in the playoffs is different this particular game for the okay if he thought it was like they were whatever last day's school defense they were playing last game when he lost by 30 they went and overdrive with how committed they were like it ain't doing shit this game so him saying like listen I had to make the right play I understood his mentality and his logic with that grand I doesn't fit our narrative but what we think of and as far as being an aggressive winner I mean as my point but you're saying our narrative is that I'm not narrative like we say it's the wrong narrative because we said last week he is the best player in this series he's the one that's gonna do all this shit he did so of course when we noticed that we're gonna call that out what my thing is that they lost like Doc was saying they lost by two points bro and they had a hell of a contribution from the bench the bench was phenomenal the best that I've seen David Chenkel since last year's play off around with the Knicks and Alexander Walker but for me it's like when Julius Randall only gives you five points in a game where you only talk about two I'm only talking about it because again like you mentioned everything can't be on end you can't put a hundred percent blame on it especially when you're paying when we when they traded for Julius Randall they gave up on cat to get Julius Randall and so far we talked about Julius Randall this whole playoffs or this playoff run as far as like we have never seen you as run to be this consistent in the playoffs playing like how he doesn't a regular season so for him to don't shit the bad in a must-win game I can't I can't just excuse that I say oh it's all because of it's like we're not gonna say all because of it that ain't the point but the point of it is you look at it we always say it on the show we don't give nobody no passes we don't give anybody any passes but why are we all of a sudden building this narrative that ants oh he's he's a kid now he's still a kid when he plays well he's this but when he doesn't play well that's his excuse I mean he was in the Western Conference last year but shut down right it's the dragon slayer so we didn't have any expectations in the Western Conference final last year either and we did this year right hold on wasn't that game before this is a must-win game and he showed up then like technically the game before this was a must-win game to write it didn't actually all of them technically a must-win games but when you're down to one that is the must-win game you can't go down to what so it's more of a must-win when you're down to one than it is to be two when no one's came back from three oh absolutely absolutely you're down to one you're down to one you have an opportunity to go back you can't go to you can't go to you can't go to you can't go to the game series you had an opportunity to make this a three-game series and he did not show up that's all it was down to we can talk about it all day but you know what greatness comes down to is consistency and the thing about a he hasn't gotten there at the highest levels just yet right he's obviously been consistent two years back to back Western Conference Finals we saw him an uptick in three-point shot in three-point makes this season we know that he's been consistently great but we know that it takes a whole another level of consistency in the playoffs where we know what you want to do we know your strengths and weaknesses we know we know everything about your squad for you to say f all that I'm getting my credit plus points again 25 points a game and it don't matter what you do he hasn't unlocked that level yet and that's what we're calling out I think the question about this is though the question about this is you're right FIFA but how do we know that the mindset that he has in this interview when he says oh I made the right play how we know he's not gonna do it for the next 10 years because because if you get 16 point playoff games right it doesn't sound like it doesn't sound like he's in the in the mindset of now I gotta get like you know I was re enjoying but he's like but I know how to get eight points a quarter that's 32 points a game I know how to do my fucking point that's my fucking point that's my fucking point that's my fucking point that's my point is just as good so my point is no that man told me out of his mouth just better than this year right now he's said he was better he said he was ready so he tells me he's ready I ain't going by nothing but what he said now if he came with him he'll be talking a different story but he said he was ready this is what he said and then he was a bad instead of saying he said he was better than those two they asked him straight up he said I'm already better than him he said he was too tired so I'm saying like you're going off the word like you're going off the word excuse it to me it's not excuses because no one's saying that we had no excuse no no there's no excuses there's no excuses no one is saying that he is excused for his play I keep saying bro 16 points ain't enough in any playoff game especially him coming into this series when I deem him as the best player in the series that's not enough however like I said I'm at this point as I was trying to explain that in the chat at this one of the playoffs we see that team basketball is going to win you championships not individual iso basketball the one thing the main thing that I will say about his game that I do not like especially this season compared last season he has stepped away from his mid-range game when we've seen in these playoffs the mid-range is king from SGA to Tyree's to Brunson the mid-range is how you win games in the deep in the playoffs because they're gonna take you away from the three and they're not gonna be easy layups which we watched last night he was chucking up threes didn't make them even if some were wide open and he couldn't get to the paint consistent so he should so it nullified him because he became a three point shooter I'm not even going as far as the game is concerned I'm going by what he said and like I said when I look at him and you're right Nick you're not absolving him from life you know who absolved him he did he absolved himself by saying I made the right play I ain't play bad I made the right play that to me telling me now bro you ain't take the LeBron's just the Bronx to say that all the time say LeBron shit the Bronx said that all the time I'm gonna get his joint hey if you're not gonna compare him to join they don't compare him to LeBron I'm not I'm not gonna tell him to say the same thing LeBron said when you tell him I'm saying I'm saying I'm bringing up LeBron because LeBron always talked about I'm here to make the best play he set the standard for generations to come which Anthony I was just like you wouldn't set the standard for generations come we're not gonna score we're not gonna score any years I'm not playing points of court it shouldn't be crazy yeah let me say I'm not thinking I'm gonna jump up this is my problem again y'all y'all repeatedly I've kept everybody at this standard compared to joint and like it's it's it's crazy because compared to LeBron I didn't say anything about LeBron just because I want to start with you he y'all making it seem like they were blown out or they were out of the game and he didn't even try to break it back he played within the fucking game and that's what he was saying we were still close like the team was flowing while I interrupt it it's the same reason fucking when Kobe first got into leaving he shot them damn airballs and the playoffs because Briffen's that's what he should have been doing it at that point like he was playing within the flow of the game now ready I say he should shot more cool but y'all are ripping him like he didn't show up at all like I get I get your point of like yeah we want more from him because we all do he's a superstar but he when he's saying I played within the flow of the game I didn't take my team out of it I didn't like I didn't jeopardize the whole the whole team in the process of it but y'all with him the problem is y'all have been used to seeing players be straight killers on the court that's what y'all want that's the only time I played it in y'all really want on the court when that's that's not what every player has to be I'm a British on the other right now you don't have to be a killer to have a great team into wing games 100% but but Edwards game is that yeah you know we don't know we don't know hold on hold on we honestly don't know what Ant's game is right now he's still developing we see what he we see at to produce that we attract that are attracted to us when it comes to how he plays how aggressive he is and how athletic he is but he's still developing and I'm saying based on based on I'm saying based off where he is right now and what he's accomplished we shouldn't really be pulling him at all holistically now in this series yes you could talk about how ecosystem has been in this series and the playoffs and all that and how in game four he should have done more and they were probably win that game I there's no excuse in that that's all facts but when we talk when the question about doing have a conversation on any of the words it's more so we need to start taping our expectations for at least talking about him in the light of his era and stop comparing him to the 90s the early 2000s and I brought up and I brought up and I brought up and I brought up hold on hold on I brought up the fact that LeBron talked about making the best play because he said LeBron is the ultimate he's probably one of the greatest him and the greatest team lead players when it comes to I want to make the right play regardless if it's in the ball is my hands and not I want to make the right play anybody anybody in the world I got a question I got a question for Doc and Nick both y'all give me a grade from A to F how do you play in this past game to y'all see my nis see y'all gonna say see my nis so that was an average game from average below average below average no see his average DZ minus I said C minus Nick did you know you're the minus? No see this average here's D is below average here's the thing and is in the playoffs and in the playoffs the superstars rise up it's one of the things that people love about Jimmy Butler when they try to cleanse the superstar we talk about it when Currie when Currie wins and when he loses we talk about it with Joker we expect these guys as the best players on their team to go out and get it done was Julius Randall shouldn't have had apps the fucking loop you know who else knew that on the court Anthony Edwards and if Anthony Edwards knew that he knew he had to find a way to win that game especially if he got all the country I don't know Nick but we've seen players do it we've seen players do it we see a lot of players do it we've seen Nick at the beginning of the series before this series started you two to Johan about him how all of a sudden now he's nothing what happened I didn't we my my my my my didn't show you my view point of has not changed still I still believe I got I still believe him he is I like to thank you average what was I said I said I said his playable his play uh last game was below average and the question is do we have a conversation about a separate expectation but I I'm talking about a separate expectation as far as like we like him was about him to send him argument to shit on his accomplishments so far because of how he's playing in this series I don't think that's how we should grade him we should go off of all the things he's done so far as at his age and if you want to compare him to the rest of the legends at that age that's fine but for me I just told y'all I start off this whole thing saying I'd rather be early to the party I think he's destined for greatness and right now where he's taking this team is way above the way anybody expected at the top of the season so that's how I'm great that's how I looked at them I thought I thought they could win in six they're clearly they're not going to win in six so I was wrong on that however that does not make me think that oh and it can be good or like Lewis even saying something about some this man who this may be who he is but in next 10 years that's fucking ridiculous to say that we should go but it's possible though because it's possible yeah it's 100% possible what he has to do and I threw in the devil's advocate MJ questioning just because we're debacial that's the only reason why but but at the end of the day and words we know it's not a physical thing right like we know that he has the physical tools to get the job done right this might be a mental thing and I wanted to adjust the LeBron make the you know make the best plates that's not what they're asking at and Edwards is not the primary playmaker we need you to be the finisher we need you to be the bucket gitter we need you to be the first option on the championship level team what they asked LeBron to do there's only been one or two other players that they need to ask to to handle as much as LeBron so when LeBron says I'm trying to make the right play it holds a different type of weight like it did not it did not it does you know it did not because you killed them for that we killed them yes you did yes you did yes you did well people there well I'll take you out of people people LeBron has always been killed for that you know my thing is this making the right play should never be a wrong thing and if and can we I was a statistic that I gave you that put it thing it was like when Edwards has over seven or eight assists dinner undefeated or they have a heavily great winning record with that so they do want there is no other playmaker on this team but him clearly but but but but at the end for this team for this team the mold that Edward's game is in it is a scorer killer why because like you said he has a first step he has a no candle he has a bag he has a post-op game he has a pull-up game he has a three-point shot he can get to the free throw line I would say this right putting my my analytical head on and say what I love and what I don't love about Edward's game the main thing that he has to incorporate to get to that consistency level that we're talking about from a scoring perspective he got to get the free throw line more often so I mean settling for Lester he's at times I understand that the arrow the basketball that we play in now I get it he he showed this season a bird like I added that to my game but you got to freakin line he got to get to the free throw line 10 12 times a game he got to be 10 out of 14 12 14 but the proof is in the pudding you know he was in the game five with that Minnesota series Jimmy but the score 17 we dog Jimmy but the light bag right so what's the difference you know he know I didn't I didn't but I wasn't sure about it yeah A to C is he made my thing is this um we do got to get credit okay see or at least I'm gonna get credit okay see I didn't I only gave him two games all year I thought she was uh i gave them two games you know I thought at you was and that's why we gave them two games but his like and you know and like I was only one who underestimated okay I know what you know what you hear okay see the wheel I'll call because all season all season I asked about what was the what's the ceiling for this team and everybody say everybody tell you know like now you're by yourself don't do that yeah everybody else tell you so you said so you said you said everybody wouldn't say you know I'm asking you know you can't even what talked about As far as when I asked every time how good is You were the most hardest on a post The main one saying I said Can I talk Early on I kept asking I was like really the best they got the best record in the league Why isn't anybody saying like they can go for it because everybody kept on hanging up outside of us and people was like they young They still haven't gotten they loans in the playoffs.
I was like fuck all that shit They had a lunch last year and they look like they better this year. They should be You were the you were the main one on the panel n***a was saying I'm not I'm not saying I have them I'm not saying that I didn't say that I didn't have them winning But I'm also the one I also know I did I also know one that said that who who else is going to stamp or put their flag With okay, see saying they're going to represent the West or they're getting to the Westing conference You're not hearing what I'm saying. I have said who planted their flags to back them. No y'all niggas Okay, so they're not saying that goofy shit that I said earlier this season to my point that don't make up what you were saying you would doubt Extremely everybody else is giving them everybody else is we should we should okay see just like the calves this year But that takes me from away from my point is to give them their flowers They donate their thing Jalen got it right there.
They actually are a 3-1 in the series We still got a chance the heart still beating but He's still there too My big is okay see This may be San Francisco's maybe what San Francisco's been talking about I was just speaking into the future Yeah, yeah, you know, I don't want to get this conversation between you and about who was born a kiss okay, see you but But not man, I do yeah, I've been I just didn't see the reason why they wouldn't I want to give me an excuse about them That was my whole thing and you and I saw it unlike I didn't really see it with Kate with with the cows But that's neither in order. Okay, see my other thing that SGA we got 40 did he did he did he put he put numbers up on the board man and why am I input numbers on the board? That's my thing, bro. Once MVP one is it and one guy Julian's red on a seat And Jalen Williams Very He would like Y'all could use even chisel now don't even just open in this game like crazy That was the best version of beef and cenjals all playoffs.
Yeah, we struggled against the Warriors I can't remember if you struggled against the Lakers. I don't think he did because everybody You Man this past game that he played hard now he played no, he did not Look, so can FIFA he may be a Hall of Famer. He may have played well I'm not saying that this guy has game offensive. Yeah, you know, but he's a little hall of favor So and the reason why I say that is you got to just put a little bit of respect on his name because he's gonna He's in the Lakers series that's what you got this series he is useless But he ain't doing a guard check man.
He was getting rebounds and put back He was doing having he kept him he kept him going a couple times in this game That's the only thing I'm saying he made a difference in this particular game The about the the Germans in the French people or something like that some crazy comments She made about him when he drove to the basket, but you don't you don't listen to the color commentary. No, no, that was They scored 128 points on he's supposed to be a fourth time defensive He's a Hall of Famer any people that's useless to me if you can't even guard yo, yo center Yo, you're a Simon Simon Brando bro, I'm so disappointed This is this is the version of Randall I thought yes, yes, no, but you know made it bad before the game They sat down and they asked him not now. I don't give a lot of credit I was a great question. He said a couple games ago You played bad and got sat in the fourth quarter What was the difference between that game and your next game what you bought out and basically he gave this answer like yeah?
I mean it now and I expect him to come out and do anything he did nothing with He was sitting with Steven in a before the game That's my thing first like we over here y'all now and I get it I get it But I'm sorry, bro. Julia's getting paid a lot of bread to be on that team We know Julie's around. Oh, it is though like we're still trying to grab him and is we know who Julie is randomly It's like we know that so if you give you five points in a muscle in game is like okay No, oh, no, no, no, no, I don't say No, he's a three at best. He's a no That this is why I picked the Lakers to beat the Wolves in the first round You expect him to give you five points in a muscle in-game That's why you better than a student.
When you're talking about somebody like Julius Randall, I ain't expecting him to come through in no clutch situations. It's not for you. All right, that's what you've been doing. You just can't do it differently.
It's paycheck does, I definitely agree with you out here. But if I got to depend on Julius Randall, like I think either Q or Cal's in the chat, we're fucked. I can't depend on him to get more than five points, bro. That's who he is.
But that's what they traded for. That sounds insane, Spike. That sounds so noble. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, what are Julius Randall's averages?
They are more than five points, Kim. I'm saying you had me in the room. And he was like, I'm going to kill you. If Julius Randall doesn't score over five points, take over under.
I'm saying, let me leave. He ain't gonna go five, bro. You allowed it to be a five. You're gonna get five, Lou.
You'll put your life in the line. I can't do it. Yes. You just told me, you just told me, you just told me, you just told me, I'll life on the line and say, oh, Julius Randall, it's good.
Yes. Yeah, Lou, Lou, five is a dismal. I played on Julius Randall 14 points. Lou, you just told me, you just told me, Michael Jordan said, I need eight and a quarter.
You tell me Julius Randall, can't you? We can't get two in a quarter. Yeah, Lou, he's like, Lou, I'm saying, he's shot volume. His shot volume.
You're the years. Y'all know who dude is. They told me he couldn't score five points in the game. I would believe that.
I would believe that. Lou, I'm saying, give me two of those. He had two a quarter. They win this game by one point.
He's just finished up. That's good point. That's a shot quarter. Julius Randall, bro.
No, I'm saying all high stage. Give us something else besides the Julius Randall. That's good. No, I would go bet my life on Julius Randall scoring five points.
Y'all know what you're doing. If you say over under. You say you're averaging 15. Oh, you're hitting on his career, bro.
One game, your life. What you gonna do? It's fine. Here's the reason why is because Julius Randall is way better than five point production, bro.
Like on average, yes. But if I got to depend on this nigga for one game and it's my life, well, him scoring five points, it's in his usable. It's in his usable. It's just, it's in his, excuse me.
I ain't disagreeing with that. I'm just saying I can't depend on him to score more than five points in the crucial game. I can't depend on it. That's insane.
All right. Let's move on. We'll be right after this break. What do we got up next?
We need to talk. We need to talk as coming up next right after this week break. If you're looking for real conversations and motivations to be your best, then you have to check out another week in the books. Another week in the books with Spike Liu and Rich is you're going to podcast for growth and community.
Plenty of dope conversations take place week to week as they inspire each other to be better through conversations. Another week in the books, wherever you get your podcast. We need to talk. For this version of we need to talk, I want to bring up Indiana patients, head coach Rick Carlisle.
We need to talk about how he should get more respect as a head coach. I had to talk about how much I respect him and his head coach's ability based off just watching this series. Granted, you could also argue off the fact that he's been back to back conference finals appearance or has made back to back conference appearances in Indiana. I think he may.
I'm not sure how quick he's made this turnaround with Indiana, but it's been very quickly, at least in my mind, since Tim's got to be the head coach of the Knicks. So I just want to give him his flowers. He's a championship winning head coach. He deserves that.
More than a lot of other championship head winning coaches who are currently still in the lead. The way he's developed his young players. The way he's got this team humming to where Halliburton doesn't even have to be. Jalen Brunson, where he means the whole offense runs through him, the team is the offense, essentially.
Like I mentioned before the series, they're like a flood or they're like a faucet that doesn't turn off. They're eventually going to flood you with points. As you can see right now what's happening in the fourth quarter in this series, the game for. I think that we have, as a sports show, I haven't talked about Rick Carlisle enough as far as his ability to be a great head coach.
I think he's a great head coach. So I want to say we need to talk about that and we need to put him up in the top five head coaches right now. I will say this, Nick. The thing I've always loved about Rick Carlisle is the fact that he had, I think everybody has to have an identity as to who they are, how we want to play.
But he adapts to whatever he has and just makes the best of it. You know what I'm saying? And I don't think a lot of coaches do that. A lot of coaches have a system like D and Tony, for example, this is how we play.
This is what I do. And that's it, right? Not everybody can coach this Indiana team to the point of going back to back East to Conference Finals and Rick Carlisle is a big reason for that. So I don't disagree with giving that man some flowers.
Who did they beat last year to go to the Eastern Conference Finals? They beat the Knicks. What did you say again? He's a champion, right?
You said that right? Yeah, that was. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So maybe the Heat. Yeah, Rick Carlisle is a coaching version of like a Pacers, of a small market team. You know, they go out, they win, but it's just something at the bottom. They just don't get the credit.
Well, I heard he's an asshole. Like, he has a person. That's what they do. He doesn't like him or that.
So that's why he don't get coverage like you. People love Papa. It turned into that. People accept what Papa does.
You know, they didn't first hold. Yeah, they didn't first. You're right. Yeah.
He doesn't. And then what he does is like, oh, he didn't even go with people. Like, Papa's a good people person. He's not even like able to talk to people and then like walk away saying, oh, yeah.
Exactly. Because I'm like, behind, like outside of the cameras, like he would have talked about stuff. He's done for them. Yeah.
Like he's a good person. You listen to that. You know, shit, we're Rick Carlisle. He just goes basketball and go home and says, but yeah, give him, give him his flowers right now.
You know, he didn't end that squatting shit. All right. Moving on. Let's talk about some NFL.
Oh, got some coffee for Spike. Quarterback Caleb Williams. Oh, yeah. What's so concerned about being picked by the Chicago Bears in 2024 that he and his family considered to find the entire NFL draft process.
They consulted with the Lord to his four ways around the least elected bargain in agreement, which also considering, well, also considering Williams signing with the United Football League. They laid out in the upcoming book by South Wittensham titled American Kings, a biography of the quarterback. What are your thoughts on what could have potentially happened in last year's draft and done? Does this change your opinion of Caleb Williams?
And also, I mean, just add on this part, because I know it was a conversation we were having to, does this situation make the should do a standards conversation and seem misguided? And I say, given the extreme measures, the Williams family was willing to take to set Caleb up for success. No, and no. My standpoint, if you point on Caleb Williams doesn't change, we saw we all saw the tape.
He didn't want to go to a situation that never had a four thousand yards pass or that can't get head coach right that can't get the offense right. I don't blame him for that. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's just a business move.
It played out where that's where he's at anyway. You know, so you can't turn down the guarantee millions. So it is what it is. I don't look at it.
I don't look at Caleb in a situation any differently. And I also don't look at Shadoor any differently either because I still feel that some of the things that Dion did said and what they didn't do cost them in the end, right? Because Caleb, we knew guaranteed he was the number one pick. Shadoor, we all felt he was a first round talent, but nobody here ever thought, oh, he's the first pick in the draft.
Like he never had that cement next to his name. That being said, you should throw at the combine. You should, you know, there's certain things that he should have done that maybe would have helped him in this situation. But at the end of the day, we all agreed it was a little deeper than rapper.
And I don't think anything that Shadoor would have done would have helped him that much more. Like it just, it is what it is. They had it out for him, but it's a perfect way to write his story. You know what I'm saying?
Like, I think he's going to win that Cleveland job and I think he's going to prove a lot of make stairs wrong and then hit him over the head when it's time for contract negotiations. But it's just business. It's the money side. And I think Kayla was just trying to protect his long-term interests.
I think it was, it was, it changes my view of him because I thought Holly and Kayla and it just changes the way it sours it a little bit for me because I didn't need to know this stuff. Even if that was happening, we don't need to know it. You do what you had to do. You pass it at this point.
You are on the team and there was no threat of him going to some other league. There was no threat of trying to take legal action. You can't fight the powers that be. You're going to take that first pick.
You're going to get that money. And that's what you're going to end up doing. You want to make the best of it. That's what he did.
And that's what I knew he would do. What else could you do? And I don't want to hear excuses. Now at this point, you got the offensive coach that you needed in here.
I don't care why your season was like it was. Take that blame, eat it and move forward, which you like. You know what I'm saying at this point? That's what they should have done.
It seems like to me that just trying to find scapegoats. Blaming everybody, oh, he didn't have this. He didn't have that. This is why it looked like that.
It don't matter. You say trying to find a scapegoat. Who are you talking about? They were looking at the coaching staff last year and saying different things like he didn't get the...
We didn't want to bear us. We were saying it about the bears. They said that they didn't give him a film to study. They didn't do that.
They shouldn't have went there. It's saying all this stuff that don't matter at this point. Here we are now. Where are you going to go from this point forward?
We know you didn't have the right coach. We knew that already. At this point, what are you going to do moving forward? As far as you do it goes, they still create narratives.
Whatever they say, the signing bonus was something that he bought in the car, which he put out today. That's what he's my car. I didn't buy that car. It's not even mine.
Y'all just putting stuff out there. Still about me. It's always going to be that. He just got to play football and keep his head out.
That's what I would say about him. I don't think this is the kind of Williams thing. This is the team that the Bears or the reporter, the team was trying to make those or sell books. This is, like Sheldon said, you play for them already.
We don't really care about the draft decision and going into how you're thinking about playing for them. None of that stuff happened. What happened was you got drafted by the Bears and you want to make sure that you aren't one of those quarterbacks that you mentioned in the book and you said, this is a place where quarterbacks go to die. No one cares about that.
I'm wondering why does it sound like in a similar vein or what Sheldon talked about. I know the parents put this out. This is just to sell books for us to look at it like, oh, you should look at the interview. We understood that.
At the end of the day, a lot of the reservations he had were true. That's fine. But he still didn't go through on any of the things that he was talking about. So why don't we cater to the Bears.
We know the Bears are a shitty organization. Everybody on this panel, we don't matter how old you are, we've seen that throughout the years, But he didn't take any steps to be like, oh, well, I'm not going to make the bearish draft. Me, it's only an article or a passage in a book now. We don't care that you thought that.
You didn't do anything about it. Why is it trying to? That's the, so my thing is this. I'm a two thing.
I'm of two things. This family did. One, does this make me look at Caleb differently? Y'all already knew how I felt about Caleb kind of going into the draft anyway, but I'm gonna say no because I how I originally felt.
However, people were talking about the NFL center and message to the center about like, oh, we gonna make sure that this young book knows who really is in charge and all that other stuff. And this is why he got drafted in the fifth round. Yet last year when legit, we have like the family who spoke up to this reporter. And this book isn't just about what it was, it's about quarterbacks in general, but the family spoke to the reporter and said, and especially his daddy, his dad is the one who has a lot of posts in this book about what they were about to do, which would have been, which would have changed the whole lead period as far as the draft process.
Because they ended up submitting to it. Yes, you're right, it didn't happen. But the fact that all this was going to happen and this was in the works is insane. Cause no one has ever really done it like this.
Even Eli and them haven't even went that far with this. So for me, this just goes to show you that one, if they really feel you that talented, no matter if you wanna go there or not, they're gonna draft you. And they're gonna give you all this money and give you all this support if they really want you. In just in comparison to what happened, this was the door clearly they didn't want him.
So there's that one. Two, what I don't understand is how can we not, even though I didn't change my opinion on Caleb, how can other people not change their opinion on Caleb based off of this? Because to a jealous point, if you that guy, you that guy, you should like, you should like, just because the Bears are the number one pick because they're a shitty team. I thought that can't, they were the number one pick because they were the shitty team.
They made a great dream. They made a great dream. They still picked in the top 10. They still a shitty team, but right.
They weren't the number one pick. But my thing is that is coming into it. What about you and Caleb changes though? Because coming into a, if you're known as the best player in the draft, I thought number one pickment that you were, but that's a great thing.
That's the point though. That's the Bears. That ain't me, that's the Bears. Like y'all killed this dude that wasn't a good coach in position.
Y'all didn't make the moves that needed to be made right off the roof. It's on the Bears. It's not on me. Everything I'm saying to you.
That's professional football, Lou. It's not like college where you can cater and curate your own legacy and all that stuff. They kind of just came into it. Because they brought in all those players.
They came into it. No, that was after the fact, right? That was after the fact. Like Lou said, he came into the situation.
No one had coached us that. Everybody named Momma knew the coach. That was the priority of it. They didn't do it.
Everybody named Momma knew that they didn't really have a great offensive line. Everybody named Momma know that they didn't have the best weapons in the league, period. It wasn't a great situation to go to the Bears. But that's football.