You're listening to the Wisps. It's Wasatch investigative studies of paranormal stuff. Wait, no It's what wasatch investigates the science of Peron Wasatch wasatch It's the Wisps their Wisps Listen, it's okay. It's the Wisps Happy awesome fun time paranormal adventure show seriously dude.
You need to get a better name. I'm not kidding And we are back with another intro welcome to week three of the Utah paranormal Expo interviews And all our intros recorded within about 30 seconds of each other because that's how we roll So I'm your host castle. I'm Tim. I'm Dan.
And Dan has got a gooey crisps center. We talked about that last week Oh, yeah, we did but she's still kind of doing. Oh, yeah, that's true. They don't touch Dan You damn right I am.
So all right on with the show. Let's hope in this episode. We'll be talking to yes people will be on Wait and listen. We don't know who's gonna be here.
No, we don't No, we're not waiting for you. Dan. We're going we are live. Okay, my microphone sucks I think it's Tim's microphone that sucks.
Yes, because he forgot mine because he hates me No, we thought you're in charge of the booth So we were sure that we're just gonna like one or two o'clock test my phone on our side But that's me here nor there. Hey, welcome to the world's most professional podcast I'm here with the end and we have got Rob Barnes and we I got that right, correct? Yes. Oh good I was watching I can see you give me the evil eye and we've interviewed Rob before he was on several episodes ago And we just did a really brief 10 15 minute segment For the metaphysical Expo, but now we're sitting down face-to-face We got good audio because we have on the phone before fact.
I think you were our first good Skype interview Okay, and I know that we we stumbled through some technical difficulties, but I think we've worked through those so we have fun So tell us a little bit about yourself Rob. I know we did that here in the earlier episode Tell us a little bit about yourself how you got involved in this and then let's take the anapart piece by piece. Yeah Yeah, you have your birth information, right? Okay, so First thing and what y'all talk about in my chart is I don't know I identify with being dad And so you'll see that in astrology where your son sign is so that's something that is very important to me fifth house son So and we'll talk about your son signing where it's at as well.
Is it the fourth? We'll find out. Okay, so anyway, so I astrology has become like what I want to talk about all the time all day long to everybody It's I started about 10 years ago. I had a reading maybe 11 years ago It was cool, but then I met in astrologer and through that relationship just started to learn Oh, I can really figure out a lot about myself and started answering all these questions about my own life Things started to make sense and from that point on I just thought well then I want to see my kids charts I want to see anyone that I know and try to find out well does this work for everybody Can I start seeing a personality and match it up with what I'm studying with the stars?
And yes, you can and so that just kind of led to well now I'm obsessed with it and Decided let's make a career out of this. So that's how we ended up here Yes, and I think it's fascinating because I'm very much into the Myers Briggs personality test And I'm an INFJ and then I look at you know all my cancer traits, you know under the because I'm a cancer Yes, yes, yes, again is definitely cancer And they I should know Cancer But that tells me some good things right and but they go hand in hand and it's like wow INFJs and cancers are very much you know crossover Characteristics and I find it very very interesting. Yes. I find personality stuff just I can't even think of a word I'm so enthralled with it.
Yes and with cancer So when I was learning it makes sense to start looking at you know the season so season is start of summer And so that would make cancer kind of a starter sign It's pretty easy for you to initiate and start things But because it's if you think about the imagery of the crab a crab's not just gonna walk right out onto the beach grab What it wants and just hang out there. It's not a safe place for a crab Absolutely. So here's this idea of this this crab maybe crawling sideways motion kind of hiding a little bit moving again Hide a little bit go get what it wants and go hide again, right? So a cancer might do the same sort of thing.
This is how they're going to approach life Kind of in a sack of motion, but there's no going for it right? It doesn't the water's checking things out take with you steps. Yep. Yeah, and with that hard shell There's only a couple signs that have that hard shell.
There's a lot of protection I'm going to kind of protect myself. It's not necessarily a safe environment. So I always have to be cautious But a hard shell protects all the good inside. Yeah, and so here's this pinnitus.
Here's this this ability to nurture and Being a water sign then we're talking about emotions And so and you know emotions and cancer you're ruled by the moon and so here's all this idea of well now and kind of tapped into To maybe everyone so I have this these themes of family family roots and generations dream world replenishing And so it starts to describe the cancer personality So but then I start looking at other planets to determine what other parts of personality are showing up. Do you know others? No other one other other. Yeah.
Do you know other parts of your chart? Not really it's something that I haven't built into a ton a lot of reason is because I don't understand some of it Well, I can pull up your chart. You're both information. Let's do that absolutely So right now Rob is looking at the end chart on the cell phone so you can see what her site is I'm surrounded by my children.
I was really interesting about that though is that you're Heart shells run by do and as a sister I would confirm you're probably full of you a sister reaction Where's the kudy so that's okay. Tell me birthday June 23rd and the year 70 and if you give me your social number Just credit card and then what time reborn I was born at 10 12 in the evening All right And the reason time becomes important is it tells us what sign was actually rising in the east when you were born and what city Hey, and so knowing that that's going to give us the rising sign the rising sign is it's kind of like your walk and go board It's it's the mask you wear it's your handshake to the world You know people aren't necessarily going to see you as a cancer when they first see you they're going to see this that you're kind of putting off And let's find out what that is Trust the magic button almost Working working You know it's interesting I'm just gonna feel some time here lies looking for this but I've worked with a lot of people energy healers Whatnot there are a lot of great apps that people can use that kind of help show you know what the charts are if you have the proper Formation, you know, I know that Amanda we've talked to you and energy healing uses Self-unaptic kind of helps guide her through stuff. So it's kind of neat watch the technology work hand-in-hand I mean for you It's just literally a database of charts so that you don't have to think through a book Yes, and very easy I get your chart and I'll email it to you so I can just read off my phone All right, so what I have is capricorn rising. Okay, so the sign capricorn rising the east the hunger born Capricorn start a winter what's happening in the old days start a winter are we playing?
No, we're working we're chopping wood. We're collecting food. We got to survive So now here's this mentality of I'm responsible So when people meet you they're not going to see this, you know warm nurturing cancer side They're going to see more of this I gotta be responsible. I got a normal soul in one place It's a responsible in fact this kind of idea of I have one shot at life to make it and so I have to be very sure Footed how I do this But then once they get past that and get to know you then oh there she is Like Yeah, and even more so now because here we have a moon in Pisces and so moon what I feel by myself and and Kind of what I feel about myself to be true or kind of the area of life where I'm comforted and where I go for my safe place So a Sun and Cancer a moon in Pisces both are water signs So now we're really getting into emotions and really getting into maybe psychic gifts This ability to tap into the Sun scene world and having a couple comfortable place So chances are with that kind of a moon then you like The spiritual arts, you know, that's that's where you want to be well and I am empathic I can feel people's moves very strong.
Yes. Yeah, so much So when you're young you probably is like I'm overwhelmed and ultra sensitive and this is probably wipe this shell cancer Because I don't know how to disconnect. I don't know what's me. What's them right and this is something you had to grow into and start to understand so So we could go on through the different the different planets One of the things that I'm looking at is a grand trine so you have planets that are aspecting each other kind of like 120 degrees We can other different planets and this I would say would be both the blessing and occurs It's a blessing because you need it.
So the idea here is I was just gonna ask what exactly does that mean? Yeah with you've seen someone a Skilled person and they've worked really hard to perfect a craft Yeah, and then you've seen the person who maybe doesn't have that same skill But they show up at the right time and it's like wow you just you just knew how to do it You showed up you got that talent And so and and what that is is this emotional stamina this emotional strength that you can almost throw you out in the desert without anything Okay You know So with this then the challenge would be well How do you make it active for you because it's almost like the lazy river You just want to hit on that inner tube sit on that lazy river and just go around around around around around Okay, and therefore things have been kind of given to you Your your ability to make it through some of these things But that's almost a passive way of looking at it So trying to be more active is like well really honing into what do these emotions tell me to do because chances are it's like well That's not mainstream This isn't what people do right but the more you've learned to listen to that inner voice that inner guidance system and now start applying those things You've started to have more reassurance in life that life is okay more success in the different areas And generally happier because I'm actually true to me Yeah, it's not always an easy thing to do but I have one as well So I have a lot of water doing the same thing and for a guy, you know who's like okay So water and all these themes of mother for a guy It's been trying to let go of you know this idea of mom helping out all the time. It's it's now Well, can I let go of the whole mom thing and just say well, this is my inner guidance system Correct, you know to kind of guide you which direction you need to go and the past you need to take with the different things going on Yeah, because you know a lot of people would believe well, that's not what a man does You know so for a woman to have these kind of insights would be almost like natural. Yes, so That's yeah a beautiful That comes a scary horror part now, let's talk about love Here a Venus Venus would be the goddess Venus right and what she's bringing to you Okay, so Venus is never going to be too far from the Sun in a chart like 45 degrees max So if it's in cancer chances are Leo cancer Gemini somewhere in there Here's how to be a Leo okay, and Leo if you think Leo would be like the Sun when the Sun's up in the middle sky What else is in the sky?
Exactly, so your Venus would be in that same place so what's the quality of love for you like love is stage I'm on stage love has to be this big performance So if someone was to court you then would be well, then you're going to have to be really loud about it Does a want these big gestures of love love becomes something that you want to love with everything that there is So your love language would have to be that Anyway, that's a little bit of how we do readings and we just make sense of these things I like putting everything into word pictures just because people start resonating with that and sometimes people Can feel what they need but it's hard to put it in words And so what you do is kind of putting it in the words and showing them the direction with it And then they can really take that and run with it and kind of mold their life with it Yes, so for instance, and then I start looking at well, what's happening in your life today? where Pluto for instance Pluto is Hades in Greek mythology Yes Hades is a god of the underworld so what would Hades want if Hades is transiting meaning that planet is going to We passed a sense of place in your chart. Well, then that area of your chart or if it's touching a planet It's like well now we got to get down to some truth. Hades ruling the underworld.
Let's start dealing with the underworld dealing with that part of life So Looks like you've kind of gotten through a big part of that part of life Pluto a few years back Because opposite your son sign. And so during this transit it was probably a really tough time for you. Yes So like you know where it's the fiery crucible. We're burning off everything down to your essence You can look at Castle.
He's working going. Oh, yeah, there was a crucible There was essence burning going on there. Yeah, and so nice that you survived. So congratulations Thank you So and so what I do is I find some of those areas where people are might you know, they're struggling for whatever reason and I start to help them identify Well, here's what it is and here's what you got to do with it Right, so play the game go with it You know and in this case of Pluto will maybe use Pluto to get through a Pluto transit So maybe spend some time obsessing about whatever it is right, you know just so you can use that energy Because we're up so that's a little bit how I do it fantastic for one more sure all right I do have one quick question before we do one more the houses.
What are the houses? We like I have heard people say you know this house your house good question Thank you for bringing me back to that. So the time you're born so that sets up the houses So that for rise in line with then draw you could say from that point east all the way to the west We're gonna draw lines straight across your chart. Okay, so in the east cap or in the west would be cancer From there.
We're looking at this chart and divided up into 12 different sectors Okay, starting with one of the east and going counterclockwise Okay, so houses one through one through six in the bottom of the charts seven through 12 at the top So wherever your son sign is that would be the area of life that you would identify that so in this case you have a sixth house So six thousand so six thousand we're dealing with things of work health and service So when we think of work people might get confused most of this career or what is it no career is 10 house work might be more Like a servant does a servant look at their life as a servant as well. This is my career This is where I'm going in life. No, this is kind of this is what I have to do This is my lot in life, yes, yes. Yeah, so almost this idea of This isn't this I have to do this part of life so I can enjoy the other parts of life So health I have to maintain my health otherwise I can't do what I need to do And so these would be something to focus on Totally tell people yeah Google all these things in fact when I give you a chart I'll even show you instructions Google this for some All right, you know Obviously what you're going to be looking at is technical demonstrations of a chart when I like to read a chart For instance, I see the whole chart and I let that chart speak instead of just going through every planet This planet means as this planet means as something might be more important to someone than something else yes And how the planets are working together or not working here for instance in your case the grand trine I'll let you get this the other one I'm interested to hear so let's try December 30th.
Hold on a second. All right, and this is Richard 30th of December 1974 and the time was approximately 545 a.m. Oh Oh That makes sense What's a picture there's any goo involved in mine what's what's a crispy outside with the gooey inside it's like a caramel What city reborn probably Right, so when I pull up a chart oftentimes like a fair environment like this I might just show down their chart and say tell me what's the first thing that jumps out at you I see a lot of red lines in the bottom left That's tough Red lines are our oppositions so oppositions or spares and I'm talking geometry So an opposition is a hundred and hundred and eighty degrees two planets are opposing each other Basically, they have their own intentions and they're not working together. So here's this idea of of Saturn Saturn opposing your son Mercury and Venus challenging so this is tough stuff where you have a lot of cancer You have a cancer moon and you have a Saturn cancer cancer moon list if Saturn wasn't there But it's a cancer moon is this very nurturing quality about you I would talk about mom because moon in a chart would represent mom and I'd say mom was a nurturing mom But now I have a Saturn here and Saturn's going to be telling me of difficulties Saturn is let's say rigid dad Okay, you reach across the table to grab the peas dad slash your hand not because you can't have the peas But you didn't ask right so now you're like okay, whatever please got space you get smack again for being sorry Okay, so Saturn is going to be teaching you lessons now where it's in a sign of cancer Well, some of the lessons you're having to learn are well what happened when you were young because the nurturing quality is There's some conflict there.
There's some there's some areas of life where I don't want to go there I don't want to be in that emotional realm. It's an area of fear for me and so with a moon there and a Saturn there That's not a very comfortable place So that's why I say that they're not gonna be a whole lot of good. It's like because I've closed that door So so it's something like that this would be something where I would start talking about that Kind of bring that up and as an area where you want full access to everything you want full access to this nurturing Since your wounds there. This is where your safe places.
However, there's still this like discomfort So let's figure out what that discomfort is and they're not be looking at well So themes of father here because your son is in Capricorn and we're going to talk about what that is for Capricorn Well when your son's there that's the planet of father in the sign of State dark father because it's a time of There wasn't plenty Middle of summer would be Leo and that's the time of plenty that would be the other sign of father But in this case, I'd say something with father because this Saturn theme and cancer which causes some difficulty in the nurturing and then this son in Capricorn, you know maybe their father wasn't there or Emotion wasn't there or maybe father was maybe a pirate something where he was It caused you to yeah, that's not a safe place for me and father was kind of behind it What what it turns out to be because your son is just kind of at the cost of the second house is like going into the second house So I'd still look at it as in the second house This idea of second house being these are my things. This is my money This is my values and Capricorn is my hard work what you identify with is I'm responsible and I can make it I'm going to be going to be strong in fact at this picture that I absolutely love For all my Capricorn friends. I have a son who's a Capricorn and this is you know So this picture what I'm showing is a picture of I don't know I don't know what they're called to have the name but these these I go that Have you seen it where they're scaling these this damn wall so that they can lick the it's literally a demo He's not a damn wall It's a damn this goad is scaling a damn and the picture is like one slip and this goes going to be falling right But this describes how short-footed you would have to be to really make it so you'd focus on though I'm going to really work hard at my craft. I'm going to put in the time and effort and I'll be sure footed about this So so in some ways Saturn might have been a challenge But the focus gave you you know focus and determination and so but now you might be successful in that place Avoid of that that sensitivity that emotional life and so I'd still say well if you want full access Then this is the area that I say it will work on that If that makes sense And then some some astrologers like to talk about it some won't necessarily other north node north node So here's an access point when the in astrology the Sun revolves around the earth and then the moon revolves around the earth and where those two points intersect on either side of the earth These nodes so some astrologers like to say well this north node means here's the kind of direction you're heading in life South knows this is where you came into this life Your north node happens to be like right on your ascendant and one way you could interpret that is if you're ascendant the first house First house is the house of me and how I'm putting myself out there in the world So what's the area of focus for you is really focusing on the me If you came into this world with the idea of partnering and and therefore maybe you lost yourself in the partner And your work has been to now find me and so through your life These are the different things that you're going to be going through is I need to I need to see how high show up I need to really get a hold of who I am and just so happens that Saturn is transiting through that first house really teaching lessons on me My truth Absolutely Yeah, no matter where it's at it's going to be teaching you lessons just like that demonstration I gave about you know The piece it's just tough and and so battery of life.
It's just transferring trans And now I'm bumbling over my words transiting your first house the house of me that means you're going through these different lessons about you And so tough, but you're getting through it graduation date is December. So probably December 2077 oh sorry that it's like the year just some December We appreciate you coming on the show and this is not first now It's a long to get in contact with you to have an extraordinary guess where would they find you at so really tough? Website to remember astrology by Rob dot com So that you can find on Facebook Rob got astrologer phone number 801 699 832 Hey welcome to the wish show we are at the paranormal Expo today I am your host castle and with me today is the end Hello, Tim is wandering around like a chicken with his head cut off putting things together But he will join us later on in the podcast for some of our other interviews and his beard will smell wonderful He bought me a beard goo. Did it is that what is called beard goo?
I don't know that's I can make it for this so I can beard you what this though today We do have a special guest and I'm actually excited to talk to her and introduce her and this is Chase Klotsky did I pronounce it right you sure did oh fantastic and Chase is a UFO expert in fact actually her turn coast to coast Am a few weeks back was a George nor your own with yes I can't remember who the host was usually a listen on Fridays and sometimes those changes right right sometimes a Jimmy Church or this Jimmy Church Anyway, yeah if the wish show is not another part of ash part She goes to do mall check out coast to coast is pretty good So Chase tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved with the UFO thing well first Thanks for having me guys because this is awesome I'm gonna look forward to this but I got into the UFO field mainly just read and book by Eric Von Dan again way back in the day Called kid chariots of the gods and I was really inspired mostly because who asks questions like that? Against a narrative that is so definite. I thought it was amazing Are you know are is a Bible talking about aliens or gods and angels? So I was just fascinated that anyone even had the Initiative to think out of the box and look for answers for himself So tell me a little bit now so you read the book and I got interested in the topic What did you do from there as far as did you just look for more books?
You do that looking around so you could find what what was kind of your path to getting where you're at today? It definitely was you know the books and anything you could get your hands on of UFOs and at that time it was kind of an explosion of burgeoning information because since 1947 there's been investigators so I Think it was when I first got my first computer that I googled UFOs and found an organization called move on the mutual UFO network and they actually had training programs and an international organization and The application took the test became a field investigator and I've been doing that full time pretty much since 1994 So when you say field investigator, what does that entail? What does a field investigator do a field investigator? basically takes a report and it's our job to go out and you know basically do the Quizative work on exactly what happened sometimes in fact most of time there are misidentifications or known objects But when people see something that's not supposed to exist.
Yeah, it changes everything I've absolutely I was gonna say if you had told me 20 years ago your UFOs I would have poo poo gin now But when I was down in Cedar City I was going to school I worked at the observatory and I just got used to looking at the sky all the time and I came home one day from grocery shopping And it was dark and I know I look up at the sky and I saw something that just kind of defies physics And I cannot explain it and so I don't know how I mean I don't know what it is I do believe that there's stuff right absolutely and you know an organization like move on it takes anywhere between 900 Reports a month so it's international National Director of Mexico and also South America But I run a special assignment team with the move on and it's the fourth tier team And as lead of that we handle only the most sensitive or the most complicated cases that we get from whistleblowers or astronauts or you know What we call high-profile? People that you know want to talk to us and detail reports, but we just get out there and I think it's like any other investigation Whether it's a homicide a robbery UFO paranormal the scientific method is is really there's only one right way to do it To get those results at the end that not only does a witness deserve that kind of field report But it's a legacy We leave in the you know far colleagues and the people that are behind us coming up We have a UFO event saying you know Savannah, Georgia and the investigator does a really great job details canvases You know does the history it gets everything done exactly right and 10 years from now another incident happens and they go back and look at that report We want that next investigator to be very excited because there's stuff they could use there's details Yeah, they'll say you know I've done a lot of investigations both you know between paranormal and professionally with my day job And yeah, it's frustrating when you go and you're looking back at past reports that may correlate now if your own report and the investigators Are doing a really sloppy job or left details out it can be hard So let me ask you now you said move on takes between 900 and 1100 reports a month So how many of those reports to think are legit? How many of you think are just kind of crackpots and people like pranksters just being searching for attention? Yeah, that's probably the best way to put it.
It's very interesting the statistics because we've been keeping them since 1969 you know we're probably the world's oldest and largest this has been a grassroots effort that started to a professional UFO organization Since 1969 we say that we've been doing the work of the Air Force because that was right after Project Blue Book closed so if the government was no longer gonna actively or Publicly investigate UFOs then we were gonna have a scientific team do it That's how it started and out of all those reports and all the data we've gathered with that many reports coming in for decades We've pretty much determined that 95% of all reports are either this identification's man-made objects or you know things that just look God we get a lot of planes landing, you know, so that it looks like the lights coming and you know things look out at night things look strange So about 95% There's believe it or not for as much hoaxing as on the internet We as an organization get very little reports that are kind of jokes But you know because every single report submitted to move on is investigated by a certified field investigator You know we kind of get those pretty quick just through an interview process because again We follow the seven steps of a proper interview with challenge questions. We ask open-ended questions You know, there's it's just it's a technique You have to hone in and develop similar to what we do to the site if we're gonna go on an investigation or not Absolutely, so now let me ask you so how long have you been doing this for chase? I started in 1994 1994 now in say Well, it's been a little over 20 years that you've been doing it What's the most interesting thing you've seen having done this? I being in the field 90% of the time where they're after the effect Or you know after the you know citing so we're really looking for evidence trace evidence physical evidence cooperation other witnesses But you can't do this for long as long as I have and as many field investigations and not run into things And I've seen craft all sorts of things that things of the sky that you just defy what we know of that we have technologically So when you say you've seen craft tell us about one of those experiences if you would there was a In Tennessee in 2010.
I'm in the middle of a cornfield and watched a triangle huge huge triangle fly directly over heads Seven of us were in the cornfield and the craft was so big that when it was over us You could put your arms straight out over your head open a magazine and it would not cover that craft Yeah, so if it was huge huge I did have one incident in my entire career where I did see a little being about three and a half But all you know kind of that typical almost gray, but it was a little different looking the eyes of more human and You know that one kind of sticks with me today because it's one thing to investigate UFO reports I don't investigate UFOs I investigate UFO reports, but when you're seeing things like that It just brings a whole new reality what to what you do. So tell us a little bit about that experience That sounds kind of fascinating. I mean how what led up to you seeing that little three foot being and What happened to disappeared it run away? I mean I'm intrigued.
It is it's a big story. It's a huge huge investigation It's it's active today We're still trying to figure out what was going on that cornfield but it started out with little lights in the sky and the witness pointed up and he had called and had been calling for a few weeks and You know just all sorts of things going on out of his property so we finally get out there and standing with another Mufan's star team member and Little just these little lights just forming kind of star star size and they're high in the sky But you can see them kind of forming coming together and making these formations and then all of a sudden they break apart making right angles You know these weren't stars satellites, you know the usual suspects the one the ISS So that was the first thing we saw that evening then as the evening went on I was bringing out all my equipment and had that all laid out and that's when the triangle started coming at us and it was The witness who pointed out said oh my gosh. I'm so glad to hear this was exactly what I hope it would come back tonight So I wouldn't be crazy So you guys can see it too, but I saw one white light and it was just you could tell it was coming toward us And then two more showed up. I'm thinking oh my gosh Three lights and as it moved closer and it started blocking out the stars They do realize wait, but this is one craft with three lights because I can see the outline and We I'm picking up equipment.
I have four different cameras all different makes and models Yeah, we're just really trying to you know get some sort of reading everything on my table is dead Everything nothing's working and we understand this a lot in a paranormal or even Bigfoot investigations where we call it you know battery drain and I that's what I thought was happening but we watched the triangle go directly over heads and stood there and just watched it until it went out of sight I did manage to get probably about 70 photos because you know Once I picked up my camera again, it's actually starting to work and I got like a little tail ends of it But I didn't get the whole big thing and everything was just done After that left I was really concerned with the equipment and wanted to check the batteries again Think of battery drain and it hits me. Well, wait a minute my cameras working again I checked everything else everything's perfectly on fine though batteries all look like are registering that they're full But I wanted to change them anyway I was nervous so the tri-field meter actually has like little screws to take the battery cap off And I had a little screwdriver in there and I'm taking the cover off and all of a sudden I just felt like someone was watching and I turned around everybody in cornfield now So there's six other people I say hey guys anybody else feel like you're being watched and I said I don't mean from down here And about that time there was like this fear and it was physical and it was something that just pounded right right into you It just hit you and I just remember turning and I started running and when I did I noticed everybody else in the field Turning the exact same way the exact same time and everybody's just running which is odd nobody's a runner It's just crazy, but I just remember running no one knows why and And about halfway through the field well wait Let me backtrack just a moment because I left out pretty big details So I just remember like as I'm running and this is a big cornfield about a hundred acres And I see the strange light and it's just going back and forth and back and forth and my eyes are just following this as I'm running And it turns out that the witness in front of me was running it He had a flashlight in his hand and that was the light I was seeing but I just remember being focused on that light And then all of a sudden I hit something BAM it was like a brick wall and it was him the witness had stopped and I ran right into him And I grabbed his shirt and I almost fell back and I heard him say what the F is that and he took the flashlight that was in his left hand Pulled his arm out and there it was not even probably about six feet from us I was so stunned like who like what and then we just ran after that we jump in his truck We get to his driveway, which is about maybe a mile away and we got out and I was just you know You're almost like what did I see? Yeah, what is going on? This is ridiculous and my first question was why were we running?
You know it like no one no one said oh god did you hear that or run? I mean there was nothing no one's just instinctual everyone just did it I think it was a control. I can't describe it as anything else But it was just the oddest thing and I just remember going home first thing we did is we didn't talk about it We had to call the state director immediately the way move on set up He came out everybody's dispositions were taken separately because we couldn't discuss it because we wanted to make sure people saw what they saw Right, but on the way home I kept thinking myself. Well crap nobody gets all that in one night What was going on that is just ridiculous except I know what I saw I know exactly what happened And this case has been thoroughly investigated many many investigators You know tests have been taken, you know, who's that?
Yeah, it's just it's just it's just naughty. Naughty So this being these are what it looks like. I mean that clothes glasses No, I don't see I didn't see any clothing at all It actually I described it at the time as almost mechanical because how do you go from that very very dark cornfield? And this is very rural Tennessee where there's no lights or anything So there's no light pollution it was dark you guys and all of a sudden you go from that to this big huge hollagen flashlight 60 directly in your face and not move or flinch or squint or back up nothing It just it was just there absolutely stoic Which is why within 30 minutes we were right back in that cornfield because my first thought was did we miss it when we first walked out there?
And it was a dummy or a plant or something except when you look in their eyes I knew it was biological because it looked that way as well So it's just really a contradiction in description because the behavior didn't match like what should have happened And yet I clearly saw that this the skin and it was kind of a grayish white color And his eyes almost like the typical little gray with the big black eyes only his eyes were more human size They were still a little almond shape, but they weren't those great big ones He was more and um they were like the little wrinkles and stuff up here in his forehead made him look Mean or diabolical however, I can't say that's what it was but there was just nothing no reaction no twitch nothing Um, but that's that's about all I don't um, I didn't see his hands. I didn't see his feet I didn't notice that his legs were extremely too thin like they didn't look like they made sense to his body And we figured out later from where the flashlight was hitting him what he probably shadowed like the other part but you know, these are things um You know, it made me a better investigator because I'm very scientific You know, I wrote a book about admissibility and how to do a scientific investigation and how we never compromise You know the steps of that methodology But so when you're talking to people it said, you know, I saw the aliens the aliens came in my bedroom I'll tell you guys. I was first one on the inside was kind of like oh boy Exactly until you know, you have an experience like that. So I don't know why I'm still scratching my head I will I will absolutely and I've said this since the first night Something's off on that evening.
I just haven't found it But I'm not accepting this full lock stock and barrel All I know is what I saw and I was obligated to report that because we asked other people to report things that sound crazy too So I I had to report it, but something's off and I maintain that very publicly We're still looking I will consider any possibility and I've heard some crazy theories a lot of people have stepped in to try to help me with this and you know, but we still don't have an answer So let me ask you kind of going along with the move on and kind of the alien thing Um, what's your thoughts on like say cattle and mutilations? Cattle mutilations are real. Um, it's very well documented. I mean nobody denies they happen.
You know, they're right. Yeah, these are surgically Incisions that with the technology we can't duplicate today. You know, there is no blood there are odd body parts taken From these animals. So, you know, that's just strange.
Um, I've heard everything from it's a breeding program because bovine blood is very close to human I don't know, but so what is your personal theory on that or do you have a personal theory on it? I almost wonder if it's a way to check earth changes or what we're doing to our planet because you know cows eat grass I mean, you know with all the chemicals and things, you know, the earth will let us know if something's coming Before our science is going to so I wonder if it's you know, they just kind of tested tissues or whatever every few years Just to see what changes have come out in the last few years. Absolutely. Are we on a downhill spiral?
You know, why are they injecting these? You know, like just a kind of our culture, I guess, um, on you know, why? You know, we have to feed them chemicals to make them bigger versus just let them eat. So Makes sense.
Um, so now if somebody want if somebody saw something in laundry, what would where would they go? What would they do? How would they do that? Best thing to do is to just Google Mufan.com and it's just m ufo and The report system.
There's a little tab up on top that says report a ufo and it'll take you through the steps It's a detailed report because every single sighting or report that is submitted is assigned an investigator So you are going to get a call, you know, not everything will require boots on the ground or a personal visit because a lot of times An interview and we have a lot of people that just want to tell us what happened or Oh my gosh, you know, this happened in 1990. I had no idea there was a place I could even report this until yesterday So, you know, we have a lot of historical data, but it's great because what mufan has done is created a database So now statistically we get honed in on your hotspots You know, what's real? What's not what is most likely man-made and the technology that they're not telling us about like the stealth bomber Or the silent stealth helicopters that the government denied that we have been reporting for 11 years and everybody said you're crazy You know, that's nothing. You know, they don't have black helicopters that you can't hear well until they crash one with those on the line Then they admitted.
Okay. We have these stealth. They're really quiet. You can barely hear Right, so what to do so right so but we are very aware that out of the 95 that we know we can we can explain through a proper investigation most likely there's that other couple that we know are ours And it's just technology and the drones are killing us guys.
These drones are changing. You know, shape sizes, you know, they're yeah They're coming out with swarms of drones. So staying on top of that technology for identification purposes is crucial these days I was looking at a car especially when anybody go on to the old radio shack and drop a couple hundred dollars and suddenly they've got For lack of a permit UFO if you don't know what it is, it's an identified slang on it Well, I've seen people that have had drones and then they've crashed and so they've kind of built their own around it Yes, you know, there's a lot of that. You know kind of make it yourself or do it DYI drone is very popular these days You see it especially this time of year where they're putting ghosts and witches on them and flying around neighborhoods The other thing is the satellite industry even ufologists have their own satellites now They're called CubeSats and they're about $10,000 a piece and you can purchase one and decide what you would like to do with this drone For a little fee you can probably put it on Elon Musk's rocket or you know, some of these guys are already going up launching other things and they're more than happy to launch yours as well And you know, so that technology is crazy.
So now if someone want to go out and investigate like say UFOs, you know, look for sighting I know like for paranormal things, you know, we know locations. I've got rumors of activity or people contacts and say hey, I've got to be in my house I've always been curious on the UFO aspect of I mean, you just got sighted there's the sky I mean how do you go out and actually see or deal with something when it's just like random sky? It was my question making sense. It does it does because witnesses we really follow up on witness reports So when we have an eyewitness that's telling us in this area most of the time it's private property or you know Their home or maybe highway and again over all the decades that move on's been collecting these reports and the data We've also been doing you know scientific statistics with this as well So we know that you know, Phoenix, Arizona or you know, there's there's a hot bed of activity down there It's also a lot of blackout type military.
So, you know, again, they're most likely mostly ours, but it's still a hot spot and we have to pay attention to it So what would your stop be on say area 51? Is that going to be mostly military technology or actual activity yet there or do we know? Well, we believe that it's mostly ours technology once area 51 became a tourist site, you know, a kind of a new hobbyist everybody's looking There's better places to hide technology. You don't want right pat is a great one.
You have a Dugway, there's all sorts of underground bases. There's there's a lot of things that are hidden So I suspect the ones that area like area 51 gets as much publicity as it has that if you're really testing secret spy stuff You're gonna want to move it. Yeah, and we're in arica If you're gonna want to test a UFO or call in an alliance with an alien Allegedly, you know, you're not gonna do it at area 51. You're gonna do it in an article You're gonna do it someplace where no one's looking no one's there But we are and we know that there's big things going on down there as well So now let's kind of switch gears for just a minute if we can let's talk abductions What's your thought on abductions?
Is our common thread in abductions? How many are crackpots? How many are legit? I know I was like 15 questions all along, but let's just run with it.
Okay. Well, the abduction phenomena is probably the last thing You know anything to do with the aliens or this type of claim was kind of the last thing I really involved myself in because I am physical evidence, you know, I'm the forensic investigator So these kind of claims were very difficult and quite frankly they should be ridiculous. Absolutely. They should be ridiculous I was abducted by aliens except it's a story that's not going away and it's also coming from some of the most credible people That we have what do you do when you have what you sit across from somebody that has been physically trained beyond most humans limits?
That is constantly monitored psychologically and emotionally to make sure that they're stable and balanced And they have one of the highest education you could possibly get And then you give them billions of dollar and technology and you send them to space They've actually been on the moon and that same witness is telling you I believe I've been visited and abducted by aliens. Now. What are we going to do with that? You take the credibility of this witness who to that day he tells you that and goes on the record publicly Yeah, yeah, they're gonna say once you have so much credibility, it's a lot harder to discount it versus And that is kind of the caliber of most of the people that come forward You would think that this would be something that would be a big hoax or you know, people would kind of say or they're nutty or crazy It's not usually the story we get from people that are maybe a little less stable than others The media always portrays them as you know, Hicks and not we have airline pilots.
We have government officials We have you know police officers. We have firemen We have grandmoms and you know the state of Kentucky that live have to do nothing but farm But she wouldn't lie to save her life, you know, so it's you know very Christian people that are really struggling with things that you know So not everybody who says they're abducted is abducted. There's a lot of this that are just You know, you see a lot in the paranormal field where you have that Sleep paralysis and you know people really feel it's it's frightening. So, you know, it really takes a special population I believe it takes people that are more into or that need what I call better better than normal credentials To deal with people on any psychological or emotional level.
I don't do that I will help them with the first part of the investigation And then at a certain point I have to move them on because I'm not trained on kind of the traumatic effects or you know, like what you do With the police department, you know, you probably handled the crime but the follow-up on the witness You guys also don't don't that lady that just experience a brutal attack, right? You have a bunch of victims advocate and somebody who can help walk them through the we do the same thing Absolutely, we do the same thing because one way or another what I can tell you is the the most credible people You know, probably your neighbor that you've loved and respect and would count on that would babysit your kids is exactly who we're talking to So how many reports do you think move on gets a year and say yeah, they get a section report? They do we do we take any kind of UFO report in fact We have people that are convinced that big foots and alien so we'll get big foot reports and you know, so that's kind of fun but um It's a it's a larger percent than most people realize how many claim this and you know, they have we work We are working cases today where you have a person come up that says look I believe I've been taken and experimented on and I was pregnant and here's my sonogram And here's here's all my paperwork for my doctor that I was pregnant and then all of a sudden I wake up something's wrong I know something's different I go back and sure enough the doctor's paperwork two days later There's not a single sign she's pregnant at all and there's absolutely nothing there. Now.
What do you do with that? It's gonna work right and this witness is telling you they took my baby That's what I remember. I knew something was wrong. I go to the doctor and they're missing So there's very few you follow just out here like myself that are saying hey guys aliens are abducting people and stealing babies and nobody's doing that We're investigating the reports and the allegations and trying to scientifically solve what's going on because again when I say it's the story that's not going away What do you do when people need you there's no one else I can call you can't dial 911 for that Right we get that with paranormal stuff that people contact all the time and say I didn't know what to do And I just finally got desperate with on the internet and there you guys were and thanks for coming over So yeah, we understand that completely we appreciate coming on the phone or on the podcast with us Chase and we hope we can talk to you in the future And again, it's Chase Klotsky.
Do you have a website that we can send people to I do it. It's just my name chase Klitsky.com. I'm on Facebook Twitter You know if you if you follow me, I follow you back. That's that's the deal.
All right I'm gonna put it out there. You probably should spell your last name. So people matter. Yeah My name Chase is exactly as as expected.
So if I last name is kl O E T Z k e All right, nice to chase klitsky.com and again. Thank you for coming on the show. Chase. Thanks for having me.
Thank you. It's been fascinating. Have fun You're listening to the Wisps was at your investigative studies for paranormal sites They're grown as adults that like to sit in the dark and talk to each other, but they all love their moms So that should account for something