“Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News

What happens when you try to tell the truth in a world that only wants team loyalty? In this episode, we talk with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, the independent, non-partisan politics newsletter that summarises the best arguments from the left and the right. Isaac wrote a “plea for help” email after conservatives accused Tangle of bashing Trump while liberals accused it of sanewashing Trump, often in response to the exact same newsletter.We take a look at why the current political division feels different now, and how the media ecosystem rewards outrage, certainty, and tribalism. Isaac breaks down why “picking a side” is often the most profitable model in modern media, and what it costs the rest of us, our relationships, our mental health, and our ability to talk to family and friends who disagree with us.We also get into something surprisingly powerful: language. Isaac explains how tiny word choices can trigger instant assumptions of political bias, and how Tangle created its own editorial standards to keep readers from rage-quitting before they even reach the arguments.Finally, we talk about whether we’ve hit “peak indecency,” and what might actually bring a decency comeback in politics and culture. CHAPTER MARKERS:00:00 Introduction00:21 Meet Isaac Saul (Tangle News Founder)02:15 Why Political Polarisation Feels Worse Right Now05:21 Media Incentives: Why Outrage and “Pick a Side” Content Wins07:09 Toxic Comment Sections and Cancel Culture12:24 Did COVID Accelerate Division? Doomscrolling, Isolation, and Social Media19:16 Neutral Language in Journalism: Tangle’s Editorial Standards Explained22:39 Why Polls Skew Left: Conservatives Less Likely to Answer Surveys24:02 NPR / Public Radio Surge26:54 Writing With Integrity: Staying Honest Without Feeding Tribalism30:57 AI, Misinformation, and the Hope for a “Decency Comeback” in Politics36:02 Would You RatherRESOURCES MENTIONED:This American Life Tangle Episode: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/845/a-small-thing?ref=readtangle.comIssac Saul with David French:https://youtu.be/fxAKXuvMXcw?si=FpOYfAVa2IdIMkaAIssac Saul TED Talk:https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=-wUgGLuSZ1LK5ygI GOOD FOR THE SOUL:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45031831-one-long-river-of-songOur Website:https://www.wevegottotalk.com/ LINKS:On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/ On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalkOn Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/