Beck and MacMahon

And now below post. Welcome to the Low Post Podcast on the Monday after one of the more epic, nutty, bananas, game 82s in the history of the NBA, the Play in Tournament begins tomorrow, Tuesday with the Lakers against the Timberwolves and the Hawks against the Heat, the playoffs are right around the corner and holy smokes do we have a lot to talk about Howard Beck. We could do we could just do I don't know four hours on ranking the 100 most disappointing things that ever happened in the Minnesota Timberwolves. You want to just do that Howard Beck?

How are you sir? You did not utter the three most anticipated words. You're your fan. Because I'm so distracted by Rudy Gobert punching Kyle Anderson on the bench, getting suspended, this has happened right before we were recording, he's suspended for one game, which happens to be a play in game.

And by the way, I'm queuing up film last night of let me watch the Lakers wolves regular season stuff to get a feel of let me get my memory, you know, jostled about how this matchup works. Okay, first play LeBron AD, pick it all. Oh wow, that's interesting. Jaden McDaniel's is guarding LeBron and Rudy Gobert is guarding Anthony Davis and they both punched people and or things and they're both going to be out in this game and it's a freaking disaster and it's embarrassing for Rudy Gobert.

It's embarrassing for the wolves who just I just I just continue to not understand what in the hell they were doing with the straight. I said on TV right after it happened, I sit here in disbelief at everything they just gave up for Rudy Gobert not knowing that Walker Kessler was going to be a surefire first team all rookie. He should be on pretty much every rookie of the year, but he is on mine. He came third on my rookie of the year about will do awards later.

And it's just like I just I'm just a guy and yet they won the game. They won the game. But yeah, it's a you know, the pelican to lost that game have to be sitting here thinking we have a matchup at home against the Thunder. We're going to be favored in that matchup.

We'll talk about that game later. And and if we went that in the wolves, the Lakers like we got to be feeling pretty good about life. What a mess. An absolute mess.

So I did hit me yesterday. No, I read is injured. I'm sorry. I have to mention not even have a backup center.

I believe Kyle Anderson is the backup center. Luca Garza or Nathan Knight or super small or cat plays all 48 and knowing cat he'll come in four thousand the first 10 minutes of the game. All I could think Zach as a result in folding last night knowing you and I were going to get together today and great to see you happy to be here again is that you and I potted a few months ago and when I was suggesting that the Lakers should be all in on this season and trade whatever they had to trade to reform at the roster to give themselves some sort of chance and you went on a five minute rant about punchers chance and I all of a sudden realized you saw the future you meant but punchers chance met the wolves punching each other and punching well because the Lakers now have more than a punchers chance because of all the wolves punching to actually be this heaven seed and then go into a first round match up against the grizzly so frankly I think the Lakers could be but we're getting ahead of ourselves. Yeah, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves on that.

We'll talk about that another day. Go. I just want you to reevaluate the whole punchers chance thing in light of all this. That's all I'm saying.

Hey, look the Lakers have a chance to win the West. The Warriors have a chance to win the West. The Suns are my pick to win the West. The Clippers were my pick to win the West at the beginning of the season.

They play the Suns. That doesn't seem great. We'll talk about that. The Nuggets can win the West.

The Grizzlies can win the West. The Kings can win the West. Everybody can win the West. Is it possible the Mavericks might still be able to win the West?

The Mavericks and the Wolves should have to play each other today in a sad bowl. The huge bowl. Just sadness. Just the winner gets to be to get some brown participation trophy for existing in the season.

They should actually be forced to wear brown uniforms like brown and tan next season as penance for everything they've brought upon themselves and upon the NBA this season. No, listen, this is, I want to make this quick point before we get into this. You do this as well. We have these conversations with people around the league and you get a feel for things and sometimes things surprise us, right?

The last several weeks I've been just asking random people when bumping into the games or talking to the phone, whatever, open any question, who's coming out of the West? And I get always these long awkward pauses and then because the gears are turning and then they'll say, you know what? They'll say, you know, it's probably the Suns. I know Durant hasn't played much with them.

They have injuries. It's probably the Suns. Or occasionally it's, you know what? I really think the Warriors once they get Wigens back and they've got Peyton.

Like it's going to be the worst. And then sometimes they say, you know what? You know who nobody says the top three teams in the Western Conference. Like I have yet to find somebody around the game.

You just did. There are very few people who actually say if I ask just who's coming out of the West where their definitive answer is Denver Memphis Sacramento. I don't recall a time in my entire career covering this league where the top three teams in either of the conferences were not really considered the strongest favorites to come out of their conference. And instead it's a Warriors team that has had a bizarre season, but we still have the Outline of a championship team there and they're getting guys back at the right time and a Lakers team that like it's, it's nobody is what they seem in a way.

And, you know, we'll talk about the Clippers ending up having to deal with the Suns at some point, but like everybody in the lower part of the bracket, almost everybody feels viable. We don't know who the seven eight seeds are yet, of course, but it's a very strange thing, Zach. Like we don't usually have this and this is in a league where things always go to form. Ones and twos do not lose in this in this league very, very rarely.

Even six is upsetting threes is pretty rare. And yet this is a year where, look, I'm not predicting it, but if you and I are talking again in a few weeks and some combination of the top three seeds in the West didn't get past the first round, we're not going to be shocked. Like, at least one of them could go down in the first round. In fact, I'll be surprised if one of them doesn't go down in the first round.

I'm going to make my first round picks later this week with David Thorpe, our annual eight by eight, which is now six by six because of the play and because we just won't know the matchups in time. Yeah, look, I mean, I don't want to go quite there yet. I want to stick with Minnesota, which is it's just, I mean, look, they could make the playoffs. They could make a little bit of noise in the playoffs, but it just feels very rickety there right now.

The go-bear suspension, we got wind that that was what they were looking at last night. I've had some pushback from people who think that's a little too aggressive given the stakes. They obviously disagree and the team played well without him last night. I think it really hurts them against the Lakers.

We can talk about that matchup in a second, but it's just, I just, you know, we'll see what they do this summer. I mean, we'll see. It was a trade that I was talking to people around the trade before it happened when it got out that they were thinking about it. And I remember saying, are they sure they want to do this?

And at that point, I was like, they might trade two first round picks in a swap and something for Rudy go-bear. This is like unimaginable what they have given up for Rudy go-bear. And the blame is always going to go to the owners because that's what happens. Like, oh, the new owner syndrome, A-Rod and Laurie.

Tim Connolly has to wear this too. Tim Connolly, who knows more about basketball than I ever will, who built a fantastic team in Denver, who has a great record that goes well before Denver, Washington, New Orleans, all of it. He has to wear this too because part of the job of being the president of basketball operations is to tell the owners, no, if that's even what happened here, we don't know. I mean, it's just, I can feel this becoming one of those things that is going to be laid at the feet of ownership and ownership only.

And it was a disaster when it happened and it's even worse disaster now. There's just absolutely no way to sugarcoat it. They're going to try to extricate themselves from this somehow, somehow, some way, assuming they don't go on a run here. All fair.

All that said, Zach, when anybody was critical of the trade at the time it happened, I felt like it had more to do with first the go-bear Carl Anthony Towns fit. Number one, number two, how much? That's it. Just that.

No, I'm getting there. The first part was just to make sense. The meal was good except for the food. Everything else about the meal was great.

Line one of the critique was, is this the right move? Is this the right pairing? Line two was, oh, and by the way, they gave up probably way too much. But we never thought at that time, no matter how critical anybody was, fairly, that the reason it would actually backfire.

Now, listen, it's obviously been a rough ride the whole season. But the thing we would be remembering most, going into the off season, which should be coming very soon, I suspect for them, that the thing we'll remember most is not go-bears awkward fit with Carl Anthony Towns. It's going to be Daddy Punch, Kyle Anderson in the chest in the middle of a really important game in the last day of the season, and then jeopardized, if not sunk, their ability to actually get out of the plane to make the playoffs. So I'm just saying, in the grand scope of things, there was plenty to criticize from the start or plenty to question from the start about the rationale behind the deal and the scope of the deal.

And now we're talking about it through lens that we could not have anticipated. And I'm not saying that we knew that Rudy Gobert had some personality issues, right? We knew that people in Utah, it chemistry issues throughout the last several years. How much of that was due to Rudy versus Donna V versus anybody else?

You can try to parse all that out. But I think what this is showing definitively, vividly yesterday on National TV is Rudy Gobert has some things that he needs to work out if he wants to be a really important teammate for more years in this league. And the Timberwolves now have to regret every part of this deal, including what it's done to their chemistry, including what it's done to their potential postseason. I just, it's, I cannot recall a more ill-timed outburst.

I'm sure there have been some. I can think of a Maurice Dautamaar, bloodying his hand and eating stitches for punching a fire extinguisher on his way out of a loss in Miami one year. But the literal one, two punch of Rudy Gobert and Jaden McDaniel's on, in the middle of game 82, possibly sinking their play in hopes against a Laker team that is much better than their record suggests. I just, I don't know where you even begin if you're the term, well, I do want to say this real quick because I was listening to, to be ready this morning and Brian Scallabrian, obviously Scall knows this game and the ins and outs of team dynamics better than you and I do.

He's lived it. But Scallab was saying because of the importance of it, he thought there should be no suspensions as ours before the suspension was announced. I had agents and others tell me the same thing. And I'll just say this, like, and I respect where Scallab is coming from and I get it.

And as a pragmatic matter, I totally get it, right? Like the thing is to win, period, do what you got to do. But if you, as an organization, you're going to have any kind of values and principles and we talk about culture all the time, if you're going to stand on that stuff, then you have to stand on it regardless of what the consequences are. And for Tim Connolly and then ownership group, I admire the fact that they're willing to do what I would say is the right thing.

If it's the right thing to suspend them if it were game 43 and they almost certainly would, then you can't abandon your principles and your standards out of some craven attempt to win a play in game just so you can be cannon fodder in the first round anyway. Let's talk about that game because the Lakers are the other big winner here. They're playing game now, all of a sudden looks a whole lot different. Not that go bare in McDonald's or all-stars this year, neither of them was, but they're very good players and they changed the defense totally of the game.

And Jim McDonald's is the one who guards LeBron and when the bronze sits, Jim McDonald's guards Daniel Russell. That's how they matched up. They just played a couple weeks ago the Lakers won in Minnesota. And assuming, I would assume that the Wolves start some variety of a smaller lineup with Rudy out and my guess would be Connolly, Anthony Edwards, Torian Prince, Kyle Anderson, Carl Townsend.

And what that does is it gives you the flexibility to put Anthony Davis on cat and Jared Vanderbilt on Anthony Edwards, which are their two favorite matchups that they like. They put Reeves on Anthony Edwards a lot, but they can put more signs on him now because there's only one big guy that Anthony Davis has to guard. You don't have to put Jared Vanderbilt on cat or worry about who's guarding Rudy or whatever on the offensive glass. You can also get funky and put Anthony Davis on Kyle Anderson and let him roam and put Vanderbilt on cat and put Reeves on ant because they trust Reeves to do that matchup to hold his own against ant.

It just gives the Lakers more defensive weapons for already very good defensive team. And Minnesota now plays five out with cat and the Lakers are going to be switching a lot of at least some of the ant cat actions given some of the personnel I just described. If it's Vanderbilt on ant and AD on cat they can switch that here and they're a little bit LeBron will be around hanging around Kyle Anderson lurking around. It just puts a lot of pressure on someone like my colleague who is going to have a small guy on him all the time and will have to run more pick and roll with whether it's ant or cat to try and get mismatches, hunt the angel or rest a little bit.

It just removes so much of the size and versatility of Minnesota and just gives them fewer, I mean we talked about now as we already just had fewer cards to play and these single game matchups are about who can guard who can find a weakness, who can exploit it and they just have more exploited weaknesses now and less weapons. They do have ant and ant words in Carl Townsend though so you got a shot. No, look they still have a hell of a lot of offense out there and just shot creation and I don't think that the Lakers are going to roll them by any stretch and look back to the point of the Rudy Go Bear trade critique in the first place. It was always a bit of an awkward fit and they didn't even get a tough because Carl Townsend he sounds missed so much time this season.

They never really got enough time for those two to kind of figure out if there was a way to figure out their their partnership anyway. In some ways maybe this simplifies things for them. I'm not saying it's a good thing to lose Go Bear and certainly not a good thing to lose Go Bear and McDaniel's together. It's putting them quite a deficit and you know this is just one of the Lakers have really started I think to figure things some things out and get on a roll.

So it's going to hurt them but I do wonder in the alternate scenario where Go Bear is playing and they're still trying to figure things out while going up against you know LeBron and Anthony Davis in tandem whether they would have had an uphill battle regardless. At a certain point you just need the bodies and especially defensive bodies and so yeah they've certainly made the Lakers lives a lot easier. I'll be stunned if the Lakers don't win that game. I think the Lakers will be stunned if they don't win that game.

But yeah and it's you know I feel for the table's fan base and for that franchise on some level like I gave this I made this point somewhere last summer when the trade happened as this might have been my overzealousness to play doubles advocate in the wake of all of the backlash they were getting that the one thing I could say for is that I admired the ambition right I admired the swing for the fences. It was a too big of a swing did they send out too many picks did they send out too many players was it the right gamble arguably not but I admired the ambition there and also it's reductive to say well we're a team with some great offensive weapons and we just need somebody to turn us into a top 10 defense and really Go Bear is a walking top 10 defense that's what we always said news in Utah like I get it I get it in the abstract I got it in the abstract I understood it but what a terrible way for this to all go down and and if they're out as we suspect I assume you do too. Well we'll see. Well actually they get a second chance right they lose the Lakers they get a second chance to beat the winner of of Pelicans Thunder and and they host that game so and go bear will be back for that game but Jane McDaniel sadly will not.

And slow mo will slow mo the agitator I don't say he's an agitator but he called it used some names and that's what Kylie Anderson does he's in your face he'll tell you like it is right to your face. It's really fascinating about that within the last couple of days there were actually and some people put some quotes out and I apologize for not remembering who put them out but it was you know we go bear complimenting within the last couple of days for a story that I can't remember it came out yet because somebody just tweeted the quote like hey I was working on the story really go bear complimenting how Kylie Anderson is this very direct blunt voice and leader for them and Kylie Anderson has taken on this really important role and you know it's always a fine line between teammates between friends for that matter when you're calling somebody out the line that you can't cross and you're not sure where it might be and maybe just a matter of timing maybe really go there just in a bad way at that moment but a team that you know has said otherwise we really appreciate Kylie Anderson's candor and his bluntness and his leadership and in that moment you know he crossed the line perhaps in a backfired it's well it Rudy was playing with back spasms or through back spasms last night which is you know I don't know how serious they were but they were they were there so I'm sure he took extra offense at having you know his his toughness questioned or whatever you want to say what what Kyle said and Kyle will step in now and probably Garth LeBron right from the jump and he's capable of that cat that probably means cat has to guard Anthony Davis instead of hiding out on Vanderbilt somewhere because they just don't have enough big guys like he can't put Torian Prince on Anthony Davis I don't think he could put Kylie Anderson on Anthony Davis and put Torian Prince on LeBron that seems bad too if Torian Prince even starts you just the trickle down starts to get a little a little troubling and the Lakers at home should win their starters have been totally dominant the wild card for the Lakers to me is always Vanderbilt and like when the spacing gets a little tight do they have enough answers off the bench they just see one or two guys off the bench to come in and make shots and if it's hot chamora that's great that means you can stay bigger and have hot chamora guard some of these bigger wings that LeBron maybe doesn't want to guard if it's small then you have Schruder or you have Beasley who kind of is a wild card for them and it's just you know it's LeBron at home with one game to be one team that doesn't give you a whole lot of reasons to have faith in it's sort of late game composure and it's a team that fouls the big Jesus out of everybody and does not get a lot of free throws and it's been well documented the Lakers are dominating the free throw game so it's like they're coming up to this game ahead 10-0 at home from opening tip so the one thing that Go Bear being out of the lineup does for the Wolves is their transition defense is just so bad when they have both the big guys on the floor which is typical of very big teams there's too slow to pivot from one side together so they at least you can't let the Lakers and LeBron get too many freight train buckets here you're just gonna lose but boy oh boy just what can you say what else can you say let's move on to topic number two on my ledger for today the Clippers my preseason pick to make the finals and I will continue to beat myself with a cudgel over that one because it does not look like it's going to come through with Paul George's availability for this series against the Phoenix Suns up in the air and boy oh boy will they miss Paul George in a series where they have to guard Chris Paul and more pointedly Devin Booker and more pointedly than that Kevin Durant and the Suns have still not lost with Kevin Durant on the floor none of the wins have been like super convincing but their big four is plus a lot in not very many minutes it looks totally dominant and Kawhi Leonard I don't know if you know this Howard even Kawhi Leonard can only guard one person at a time you can kind of guard like one and a half people at a time when he goes into full-on shark to post mode and he's just snatching the ball out of the air but and if he and if it's Durant if he's got a guard Durant and I would suspect they'll try Batum and just see if Batum can survive but if he's got a guard Durant that's just a lot to do man and we saw him do it against Luca for a couple of games the last time the Clippers tried to finagle with seating in the playoffs a couple years ago but I don't want to talk about that series because I'm still doing my work on that there was a whole kerfuffle yesterday on NBA Twitter and this was one of the rare days I was paying attention to NBA Twitter because it's like I don't really I had a bunch of games going in the background I don't have to dig too deep into the exes and those of these games it's just a result that matters let's have some fun about whether the Clippers should have tanked their game on purpose against Phoenix in hopes of finishing below the Warriors and landing in six which would have depended on the outcome of the Timberwolves New Orleans game had New Orleans won that game and the Clippers lost and the Warriors lost the Clippers would have dropped into seventh in the play in tournament and played I don't know who my brain is broken right now and and been in the play and now they won and the games are going on at exactly the same time there were even suggestions that that tylu should come up with a Jason kid ask plan to spill something on the floor to lay the game maybe have pay a pay I guess if the game was in Phoenix was I can say Chuck the Condor the stupidest mascot in the NBA could come out and cause a scene on the floor to just so they could get the outcome of the other game known and it did raise this question that I talked about Kevin Pelton last week about should they have just should they have just knowing that there was some chance Minnesota would win which they did and knowing that either way your your win outcome is facing this Phoenix team should they have just said you know what roll lose and we'll pay the price we'll pay the prices seven will pay the price they obviously chose not to I said on Friday with Pelton they will not do that no team is going to risk the play in let alone a team that lost twice in the play in last year but you know Bob Volgaerys is a very smart guy kind of made the mathematical argument other people have made this argument to that if you just sort of assign X probability to beating Phoenix in the first round and then X probability versus you know X probability of winning the play in versus X probability of winning Bob Volga like the math is kind of even issue theory what did you think I think people are overthinking it I want to make this quick point by the way on this subject because it also pulls in the Maverick situation which I know you're going to talk about with band McMahon later in the pod in it in it in it I love that we got the play in I think the play in has done a whole lot to make the last part of the regular season much livelier more engaging the stakes are great I mean this we had there was things at stake we had a bunch of you know Doug games yesterday with basically like you know combination of Glee rosters and like they look like preseason games but we also had a bunch of games with stakes right down to the last game that was played and that happens in large part because of the playing but what the play in has done to kind of warp our sensibilities in a way is that in a world where it's still the one through eight the Clippers could have just done that right the Clippers could have said screw it we'd rather if we lose and we end up seventh instead of six that's fine but better than being fifth and having to deal with the Suns and you're still a sort of a playoff spot in the Mavericks case the awkwardness and humiliation and everything else that they did and said that has gotten them in hot water and now has gotten an investigation. And I hope you didn't pay too much for your plane tickets across the Atlantic Ocean. Oh my.

But in a world where it's still just the one through eight the Mavericks would have already been dead in the water and they could just let go of the rope weeks ago and so it's just interesting to remember that not so long ago we had just a one through eight and it would have simplified some of these decisions and in that case if the Clippers won a tenth fate tenth of basketball gods whoever by messing around on the last day and losing a game that could have won because they'd rather avoid a matchup in the four or five slot fine but in this case act all respective to Bob Gares and others who were arguing this point like I don't think you mess around like the play in is at most two games and you know God forbid I do think that's key in Bob and others argument is that the Clippers would not have fallen into the single elimination part of the play and they had to change it to a massive massive difference. It is a massive difference but it's still the case where one bad game you know you win the first one fine you're in you lose the first one because something went wrong and now you are winner go home in the second one. I just I you're taking an awful risk I'd rather just assure myself of being in the playoffs having the whole week off by the way or at least not having games to play and being that much fresher especially for a team that's a veteran team that is always banged up and where your two stars are always hurt and they're still waiting on Paul George like don't don't add extra games that you don't have to play if you can avoid it so I thought they did the right thing and the idea that Tai Lu was supposed to be scoreboard watching what we're going to do you guys off the court in a hurry at the last second to go no no way we want to lose we want to lose how would that have looked in the wake of the NBA just announcing an investigation of the Mavericks or losing intentionally you're winning a game with five minutes left you yank everybody. That's part of the deal.

Remember two years ago I pulled this story on this podcast before someone within the Clippers was telling me about how they had kind of finicaled their way to play the Mads and I think what was the four or five series that year and then this person said yeah we think this is like a five game series for us and I said oh boy that dude over there in Dallas yeah I know I know he likes to have a good time off the court maybe he's not in the best shape maybe he wants to the refs all the time despite what Mark Cuban might tell you in very profane terms that dude's a killer you know why I'm a part of him and he almost took him out. Look again it would have been double elimination for the Clippers that's single elimination right still this is two games like you lose two games they just they lived this last year now Paul George you know missed missed the last game with COVID or I believe it was COVID I should probably check that but I believe so. There is some irony in some not too much but some because again I understand what been double elimination but in suggesting that a team that is trying its damnedest all out urgency to be Saban Lee and Darius Basley and damn near can't do it suggesting that that team about to perhaps lose a single one anything can happen game to Saban Lee and Darius Basley and Terrence Ross tank its way into more single-ish elimination circumstances there's a little bit of irony to that so I understand why the Clippers did what they did they do now land in what is a very tough matchup for them and for anybody else and a matchup that just screams Paul George Paul George Paul George like pretty much any matchup but particularly when you're trying to slow down those dudes but I just don't know short of getting lucky and having the NBA tip you two hours earlier which is not gonna happen for a West West West game to West games at the same time at the end I just don't know what you're supposed to do especially when you're not at home and you can't have Chuck the Condor run out or Steve Ballmer performed some sort of dance routine between quarters and I don't know I don't know what you're supposed to do. Where was it was it was it Phoenix where was it over the last shoot everything such a frickin blur somebody had like a speaker hanging by a thread or something didn't they and that is I just had to like pause the game to take care of something that was falling off of a scoreboard dude every time I go to a game there's a moment pregame where I'm sitting talking to a scout or something and I look up at the jumbo trunk and the thought crosses my mind like man I hope that thing doesn't fall.

It's just hanging there it seems so precarious. It really does. I would make this point too though and like I get it especially if you're the Clippers right you brought together Paul George and Kawiliter you sent out Shay Gildes Alexander and a bazillion picks and you made this amazing two part move four years ago now and you haven't had anything to show for it and everybody's talking about it's all going to have been a failure it's all going to have been for not and so the last thing you want is to run into Kevin Durant and Devin Booker Chris Paul in the first round and possibly be a first round out I would just say in general if you don't I know you want to buy yourself time to get Paul George back but whether you lose in the first round the second round if you made the conference finals whatever if you eventually have to deal with this team and you can't beat them and your playoff run is a failure anyway I know the optics are bad when you lose in the first round especially when you have invested so heavily in two stars that were supposed to make you title contenders I get all that but there's a certain part of this too where again if you're weighing this whole like we're taking a chance we have to go through the play and you got a play you got to play right like eventually you got to beat good teams to advance in the playoffs so you either have confidence you can do it or you don't and yesterday was alarming by the way though that it took that much effort to put away the third string sounds was about it happens one game it happens and credit Russell Westbrook to Russell Westbrook and Kawhi carried him over the finish line rust with hustle play after hustle play I was wrong about his impact on the Clippers at least so far and they pulled it out and that happens there's also the school of thought that you're hearing on Bill Simmons is big on this like I think it was Bill Simmons and apologies if not but how I'd the idea that I'd rather play the sons sooner rather than later while Durant is still figuring out his fit with the team and before they get a groove I get that and you hear that every once in a while and yes it is unprecedented like like it's borderline unprecedented for a team to make a trade of that magnitude and win the title so there is obviously even with Durant there will be some fit in stylistic kick-ups whatever I don't expect them to be big but their history suggests there will be I'm still always of the school of thought like I'd rather put it off as long as possible I'd rather if I can finagle the brackets so that I can avoid the team that I really want to avoid it just gives more time for bad stuff to happen to their team and maybe bad stuff I'm in my team in the interim like my best player will spring and then go whatever I'm always there's no right answer but I'm always I always would always prefer like let's kick that can down the road it's like maybe we catch lightning in the bottle maybe someone punches someone on the sidelines on their team or punches the wall or punches the fire extinguisher or punches the gatorade cooler whatever we're gonna preview thunder pelicans which should not be forgotten but before we do that I want to take a detour into awards ballots it is 337 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on Monday April 10th my parents anniversary happy anniversary mom and dad I love you and I'm sorry and and ballots are due in two hours and 22 minutes mine is in it is in I have washed my hands of it I don't want to see it again I've already forgotten parts of it but it is in it is filed is your ballot in back the PR people are gonna yell at you if you don't get that damn ballot in Mark Mark restarted was texting me literally minutes before we can we you and I signed into zoom I've promised him it will be in by about 559 Eastern time if they're doing what's they're doing six what's the what give me give me your two toughest decisions and we'll see if I can we can talk it through and I will I will tell you what I did in these services so I will say it's not in yet but it's I've completed everything except for all NBA and I think I'm actually down to just the forwards on all NBA before you and I signed on and I will finish it up when we sign off Mark restart I promise you this will be filed on time I believe I'm for any one of the last to file I kind of take it as a point of pride now um so MVP was tough duh we all know that we've all argued and discussed it literally literally to death but that's not actually true I'm still alive it feels like we've argued to death it has been definitely painful the arguments but all NBA is has it's always tough there's always too many bodies that's fine that's why it's an honor I don't mind hard cuts what's made more difficult this year is that now more than ever in this era and I know the NBA is trying to take care of this in the CBA with minimum games and all this stuff and I don't think it's fine maybe it'll simplify my life I like that we have the judgment we can make the judgment but in other years that there were some obvious ones where it's like I can just cross a line through this guy because it's too few games and I can I can elevate this other person or I can recognize this other person the problem this year is so many guys who should be worthwhile who are among the best of their position and who had phenomenal seasons when they were actually playing played so few games and I've always been one who believes that it's it's okay to have the LeBron James exception or the Steph Curry exception they are all time greats and you and I've discussed this before and I know you've talked about this before too so it's just why because he's Steph freakin curry or because he's LeBron freakin James well both of those players are on my own NBA teams I won't say exactly where they're but they're both on LeBron you know there's the three all-time forwards in Kawai K.D.

and LeBron who played fewer games than ideally would like LeBron played the most games and significantly the most minutes of those three yes curry is curry and I have both curry and lillard on my own NBA teams lillard actually in 58 games played a ton of minutes like almost 20 point 100 some minutes curry played I think 1950 or something like that and the toughest cut after that in terms of the guys who had played like the 50 something games for me was Devin Booker at 53 games and I think about 150 fewer minutes than curry and I just concluded like he just wasn't quite as good as those as curry and lillard who played more minutes and games significantly so and we're just outrageously like those two guys are all time great players who played at pretty much peak levels for them so they're both they are both on my uh among my six all in the regards and Devin Booker apologized to them Booker who played at an all-in-bade level did not make it on my ballot. No um as of right now I don't think something to change I'm pretty I'm pretty set on these I do have curry and lillard both I do not have Booker and and and I'm not making apologies for it because Steph is Stefan, Dame is Dame and even if they only played a few more games than Booker it's a few games and those guys were playing out of standing level and they are absolute all-time greats and they deserve a little bit more consideration they have absolutely earned that so I've I had no problem there um LeBron is one I was still wrestling with and the thing is when you start wrestling with whether to put LeBron there still I don't there's no Anthony Davis exception he's not LeBron's level historically speaking or otherwise but you know games played it's comparable LeBron and 80 and 80's been really really important to the Lakers and has had a pretty fantastic season. Well here's 80's probably he's a center and I know he's listed it forward in center but that's bogus and it's cheating to list him as a forward just like to the Montes Obonos is a center you know pieces of center and beat is a center so AD to me I thought about sliding I don't I'm not in love with my 13 forwards and the two guys I thought about sliding in just because I thought they were phenomenal when they played this season for 13 forward were Anthony Davis and ultimately I decided no he's a center and he's not gonna make my three all-in-b-a-teens all-in-b-a-centers are in beat you'll get you in sub-onus. Agree.

And Jaren Jackson Jr. and I just decided I just don't think he's quite played enough enough minutes compared to these other guys who do who are all massive you know 25 and up scores and I love Jaren Jackson Jr. and I can talk about him later but I couldn't get there with AD. No and I did not either and I won't and I also don't want to shoehorn guys as long as the NBA is still sending us ballots and they still are at least now with two guards two forwards and a center on each team I'm gonna go by where those guys played the most and some you know some guard forward types do swing back and forth that's a little bit different but sub-onus has played nearly entirely at center and Anthony Davis has played nearly entirely at center and I'm just I'm not gonna mess around there I'm not gonna do the thing where people want to put yolkich and be on the same first team element it's stopped.

I didn't do that I didn't do that for him beat and I'm not gonna do it for yolkich which is my way of saying I'm not gonna reveal all my worst choices here because my dot com editor is really mad. I voted 2023 MVP Joel Embiid and I went Embiid, yolkich, Janus, Tatum, Donovan Mitchell that's my MVP ballot. Luke I fell off of it toward the end of the season I just don't think he can be on a team that finishes 11th and crack the top five in MVP there were other guys in consideration for the fifth spot. I don't we talked a lot about the MVP I articulated the case for Joel Embiid last week with Kevin Pelton I thought that was a pretty clear wink to where I was leaning so I don't really need to articulate that case.

I'm comfortable with the vote I think the last five weeks has just been all Embiid for various reasons that again I've already kind of articulated I know I know the not excuses but I know the reality of Denver situation having locked in the number one seat but I voted MVP in the end and I think he's deserving and I think he is going to win and maybe easily. I believe our ballots are identical so I guess that's my way of confirming who I voted for. The luke thing was interesting by the way you know you talk everybody talked about Embiid and Dazim so I don't even need to go there but you know my ballot I think is exactly the same as yours. And I have I had Mitchell in that fifth slot after you know like luke was on my theoretical MVP ballot in some spot all year every time bontamps called up for the straw poll or texted for the straw poll I think I had look at there somewhere but the gas we finished to their season is one thing I also ended up looking this up because you know we have a kind of a sliding scale right winning historically with a couple of notable exceptions and you know how I feel about the wins part of MVP winning has historically been a really really big part of this more so at the top of the ballot than the bottom and four and five is where you kind of reward other people who might have had outstanding seasons but maybe they weren't quite as outstanding or their team wasn't quite as that but I was curious like were there even any top five finishers in the MVP race in recent years from a losing team and I didn't go back all the way because I could have been here forever but I went back a good 15 years and I did not find a single top five finisher in the MVP from a losing team in the last 15 seasons.

I was going to guess maybe Kevin Love from like the 2012 Wolves when they would go like 40 and 42 every year and they'd be like plus eight with Kevin Love on the floor and minus 45,000 with Kevin Love on the bench but not even him huh? They were over 500 some of those years too. They were over 500 even if he cracked. I don't think he did crack.

I went back to like 0708 or somewhere in that range and I did not find anybody from a losing team and so I thought you know what that's good enough for me like Luke is incredible. He's a phenomenal player. If you're starting a team tomorrow he's one of the first picks you're taking but that was just such a ghastly humiliating end of their season and you know if you can't even make a play in you're not in the MVP discussion anymore. I'm sorry.

The last thing I'll say in MVP that I think I neglected to say last week and making the case for him beat is he actually leads Yolkitch in a couple of the advanced stats this year and is much closer in others than he's ever been before. Like the last two years two things that Yolkitch said going for him is number one a substantial minutes advantage. Doesn't have that this year. And number two all of the advanced stats and I'm not dumb.

I know that you can't look at any one of them and say that one is ironclad. That one is right. I don't have to think anymore and use my brain for critical thinking because Snorp tells me that this guy's number one and that guy's number two. No but when 15 Snorp's all tell you the same thing you have to at least acknowledge their existence and listen to them not listen to them but acknowledge their viewpoint on things and their viewpoint is different this year.

What was your other what was give me one individual award forget the all NBA all defense all rookie one of the six individual awards that you that you fretted over the most of the individual awards that I've read it over the most I'm scrolling back through. Most improved is always difficult but you know I'm fine with where I went there. Six man wasn't all that big of a deal. I don't know that I don't think I'd struggle with the top line on any of these I struggled with like only coach of the year ballot.

I think my grandma when unanimously at the stage but I was struggling with the two three there's always like six seven eight coaches that are worthy of recognition and I really want to get Michael Malone on there and at the last minute I swerved. So again my fourth place on a three man ballot. He has done an incredible job. I give him some he's been on my ballot before and I give him some love in my honorable mentions this year.

There are two ways you can look at the nuggets right. Well not two. I find the last five weeks of nuggets basketball somewhat troubling. I cannot just dismiss this as this team in early March whooped Memphis locked up the number one seed for all the intensive purposes and has been snoozing through the remainder of the season.

There's some snoozing going on. They will there's a chance that Denver comes out in the first round of the playoffs just like a like a house on fire whipping the ball around cutting dunk in talking trash and like oh oh that gear was sitting here. I'm slightly worried I'm slightly worried about the nuggets and I'm not saying that that's a reason to have all my own it's just you jod my memory of a nuggets thought that I wanted to get across. I voted for my ground.

Yeah and the thing is you know over the last couple of years as people have weighed yolkach's MVP candidacy and a lot of the times it's been strengthened by the fact well he's missing Jamal Murray Mike reporter junior or he's you know it's the lacklustre supporting cast it's all the volatility they've had around him and you know it speaks well of yolkach that he has been able to elevate and also speaks well of the coach who has kept his team on track and found good combinations even when he didn't have good options. And I just think his voice there too like you know that's a team that can be kind of I don't know what the right words you take on the personality sometimes of your best player right and yolkach is laid back is even the right word but there's a certain that you don't feel that same intensity off of him as you feel off of other dominant players in this league sometimes. It's a different kind of style that he plays even just his demeanor on the court but Malone is like fire and brimstone sometimes and I think they need it like I think he's the right coach to try to keep the fire lit there sometimes and so I think that's an aspect of it too. B.J.

Picker's staff ended up my number two and Mark Dagnol whose last name I never feel like I'm pronouncing correctly and it has a lot of consonants and vowels in strange places and looks like it should be pronounced with some kind of French accents that I cannot pull off was my number three. I'll have the beef Dagnol please the beef Dagnol with a little ojus. That's my exact coach of the year about it. The two that I struggled with most individually and I will just talk very briefly rookie of the year and defensive player of the year.

Rookie of the year is the one I'll say who I voted for. Last 50-something games of the season. Jellin Williams 15 and a half points a game way better shooting than Palo bank arrow. Last 50-something games of the season Palo bank arrow 19 points a game way worse shooting like 40% 30% compared to 50% 40% than Jellin Williams.

And so you ask yourself 53 games like three and a half points like that's all you're gonna vote for Palo bank arrow because of three and a half points that's it. I ended up voting for Palo bank arrow because obviously you cannot dismiss the first 25 to 30 games in which he was not dominant but really really good. And something that a couple of coaches said to me is I was thinking about this. Something I'm aware of but I haven't lived it and so I don't know how it feels.

But they said you know what Jellin Williams did in the last 50 games. Absolutely tremendous. The guy looks like he's gonna be a star. You are correct to be really really high on him.

You are almost correct to just vote him rookie of the year which I really came close to doing. But you can't underestimate the physical toll those first 30 games took on Bancaro a rookie working as a number one option and looking really really good. And conversely the toll they did not take on Jellin Williams who was probably fresher by Game 40 and Game 50 than Palo bank arrow was having not had in fact Jellin Williams came off the bench for the first 15-20 games of the season. So I voted bank arrow and my ultimate litmus test was just nerfed under the head in five years which of these guys is most likely to be like an all NBA superstar.

I think it's still bank arrow and I think that we'll remember that from his rookie year the moments where he showed that. So that was that was when I deliberated really hard on and when I first filled it out of the edge of Williams and I went back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and I ended up at bank arrow and actually feel I feel okay about it. I went bank arrow Williams and Kessler in that order. So it's funny because we talk ourselves out of things sometimes over time because I think we have gotten smarter about how to process all this over the years in the age of analytics and social media and more discussion of this.

We have I think all tried to not be too beholden to just the wrong numbers like okay who's the rookie of the year? It's whoever scored you know 20-25 points a game whoever was leading score among the rookies is the rookie of the year. Who's the six man of the year? Who's the highest score?

Like and the pushback in this era has been more to the game the discoring and by the way the efficiency matters and you know usually it's especially with rookie of the year. High pick bad team gets a lot of shots okay you don't want to be that reductive and you don't want to reward a guy just for taking a lot of shots but that's not really what bank arrow did but I also do think in defense of kind of the older model of this of what the rookie of the year is he had the entire franchise on his shoulders like yeah more shots yeah more opportunity yeah more responsibility. I even I even spoke back on that a little bit because Franz Wagner and Wendell Carter Jr. and Mark L.

Folks are not like dopes those guys are good players it's not like he's out there just like I got these 35 shots a game he's in that gave me pause. He's not a barren team by any stretch. But when you occupy that position when you've been drafted in that position there is something that comes with that there is an extra pressure and a responsibility with it. Besides also look he played his ass off in a variety of ways he wasn't just out there as some like volume shooter right so that's where you don't want to get too caught up in the numbers if it's a good guy just to your point this is gonna sound dumb he looks the part and by that I mean he's physical he's smart he's agile and he's incredibly skilled skilled enough to walk in the league and on one possession run an inverted pick and roll and score on the next possession screen and a traditional pick and roll and score or make a read on the fly spraying the ball out to shooters on the next possession facilitate from the elbow like the guy can do everything on offense already and so he got my vote.

Okay let's do can we do so many previews? Yeah absolutely and I'm glad we didn't have to go too deep on MVP because I think we're all sick of it by now and I did people that I'm seeing I did write a good like 2000 words last week for GQ.com on the idea of voter fatigue which I'm saying is not really a thing and it kind of maybe is like a tiny tiny bit but it's mostly because of Chrome alone a thousand years ago and I don't think it's applying to this year and if Joe if you don't get to play whatever else you want it's not going to be because of voter fatigue. Again I made the case last week if you want to hear the case you can listen to that or you can read my comment that comes out in a couple days. Mini preview, Thunder Pelicans the 910 game in New Orleans are the Pelicans going to do this again where they come from the play in graveyard and roar their way into the playoffs.

I think this is going to be a fun game. We have two fantastic defensive matchups out of the back. When Oklahoma City has the ball the slithery, ungraspable like trying to catch a fish with your bare hands. Shay Gilder's Alexander will be guarded by Herb Jones.

Woo! When the Pelicans have the ball Brandon Ingram will be guarded by Ludort and there's going to be a lot of Shay and BI hunting for matchups that they like for Shay. I think that's going to be let's see if we can get poking at Jonas Fowlan. You want to see this a little bit in the pick and roll?

I guess I'm going to make range numbers. Can I get big JL Williams, the other JL Williams some threes and some of these games come down to like those big JL Williams have a random four of six game for threes. One game, it's one game. Something that will come down to you watch the film.

SGA likes to find CJ McComb and say where's CJ McComb? He's a little this guy. You got all these other switchy dudes your Trey Murphy's your herbs, you know you're Larry Mase is a fizzet center. I don't like those guys.

Give me CJ McComb. And BI is going to do the same thing. He likes Isaiah Joey likes to do. I think they should make sake Shay work on defense go at him a little bit.

These teams don't shoot threes very well. So the spacing's going to get cramped. They both get to the rim a lot. My favorite stat of this game is that the Pelicans have the worst field goal percentage allowed at the rim on defense this year.

IE teams shoot like a gazillion percent against them at the rim and the Thunder who get to the rim a lot have the worst field goal percentage at the rim on offense. So it's the immovable object against the whatever the other thing is of rim incompetence. Is that a lot of other. I am picking the Pelicans to win this game at home.

I think they're deeper and fresher. The Thunder are really kind of with home gray not all year who's scolutated and Kenridge Williams who would be super useful for them in this game as a small ball five. They're kind of like a thread bear team and they're even playing they're even just saying like to hell with let's just put our five best guys on the floor even though they're all guards which is giddy, Shay, Jalen Williams, Dort and Isaiah, Joe Offdebench and let's just lay a fly. I'm going to pick the Pelicans to win this one.

I think that's right. I feel like these plans might they could be kind of just a coin toss. In some respect, but the Pelicans have I haven't I haven't gone and looked at the numbers for playoff experience deficit here, but CJ McCollum's been a bunch of playoff games and he won he won a game seven in Denver man when Dame was out of gas CJ McCollum driving across the finish line for the Blazers. And there's a lot of youth on this team too, but I mean you've got veterans and Ingram and Valenschunas and guys who have been around a bit.

The Thunder are still pretty young as they're like a single I'm looking outside of like Dario Sowridge. So anybody with the. He's been there back up five lately and he's actually okay. So anyway, if the other thing you mentioned Valenschunas if I'm New Orleans, I'm I'm speeding him the ball early making making Jalen Williams rookie Jalen Williams guard him in the post making Dario Sowridge guard him in the poster.

You got a front and we got to get shots elsewhere and Herb Jones is on one right now shooting threes. I think the Pelicans are going to win an end of wonderful season for the Thunder, but what the hell do I know how we're back? It's just one game. But we got those matchups are fun.

Herb Jones against Shea and Dord against BI and those have been the primary match ups in these games. That's fun. I like it. It's fun.

Once again, the play is fantastic and the stakes. Listen, I understood. Neither of these teams are having their years or their lives made or broken on one play in game, but sudden death is fun and work work. Yeah.

I mean, obviously there's one big missing character here other than Chen Hongering and that's Zion and I keep saying this on TV like Zion has played 114 games in four years, 114 in four years, including playoffs, which he has played none. At what point is just a crisis for the Pelicans? At what point is this endemic to the experience of having him on your team? I don't mean that default him.

It's just is what it is. He doesn't play and it's hard to build a team around someone who doesn't play when he plays his. He is absolutely worthy of being someone you build a team around. He's that good.

He's Lauren's tailor mixed with Shaq. You can't keep him away from the rim. I just we keep getting these updates and every update is the same as we ramping up. You know, we're going to give you further updates later and not ready to play yet.

I was like, at what point? I work as suggested they should try to trade him. I get why he's saying that. It's just would be an all time low kind of to trade him at.

But like I do think we're reaching the point where the Pelicans need to have a hard conversation with themselves with Zion with everybody on the team. What do we do here? Like how do we plan our next four years at this point? There's it's funny because there's a couple of these quandaries around the league, right?

Mavericks have this massive quandary. I think with Kyrie Irving having, you know, traded away all these assets to get him. And if he walks, well, great, you've got Capron, but you've got nothing around Luca. And but if you do resign him, depending on how long, like there's a lot of risk that comes with reciting.

Like that's a quandary. The Zion quandary is the single biggest quandary I think of any team with star player in the NBA and maybe of the last 10 or 15 years because yeah, his ceiling is perennial MVP candidate. And his his floor or his basement is what they've experienced for the last four years where he's just never healthy for any length of time. And he's already maxed out, super maxed out, mega maxed, turbo maxed, whatever he's got.

He's got making every dollar you can possibly make in the NBA system. And even if you like, I could make the theoretical argument, I guess per casa, I missed that. The theoretical argument to trade him, I would get because you've got a cornerstone all star in Brendan Ingram and a guy who plays flirts with all star caliber play in C. Jim McCollum and a bunch of really good young players.

And if you could trade Zion for anywhere near his value, you'd get a bunch of other cool stuff to put around those two players and you'd be in great shape and you'd have a lot more reliability in your core. But I don't know what anybody would give up for Zion, right? Like it's that'd be a really interesting hypothetical to start throwing at GMs right now is what if he were available? What would you be willing to give up?

And I'm not sure there's a whole lot than anybody would. That I'm not ready to go there yet. Yeah, let's do a quick quick preview of heat Hawks. Do you have any heat Hawks thoughts other than the heat beat to the heart of the Hawks almost every guy at the end time they play?

I kind of listen, this is a mercy killing. They just put the Hawks out of their misery and let them go into their off season deal with their quandaries because if I'm doing the all NBA all quandary list, Tre Young is creeping up the standings. I got a weird gut feeling here. Oh, I got a weird gut feeling.

I don't like it. Hawks in the upset. I don't like it. I don't feel my brain don't feel good about it.

Hawks over what is Hawks over what is the impulse or data point here? I just I haven't been the heat have not given anyone a huge reason for them to be optimistic that there's like a big run coming here. I mean, they were the number one seed lecture. I was like, it were one shot away.

You got to forget that you were the number one seed last year, the seven seed this year. I think, you know, the Lowry thing, I don't think he's reclaiming his starting spot and if gave Vincent and Tyler here on Max Drew's are all on the floor together, the start games, which is the way they've been going recently, I got a lot of spots to pick at if I'm an opposing offense with talent and the Hawks have talent. And the heat have really defanged that talent by just blitzing the hell out of Trey Young, throwing different looks at him. Sometimes they'll drop, sometimes they'll drop on the side, sometimes they'll play zone.

He just doesn't know what's coming. If he trusts his teammates and they make enough threes, I think they can win this game and it goes against every bit of common sense I have because you have the historic matchup. You have one team is tough. We know that the other team is just been mired in controversy all year and drama and all that.

And Jimmy Butler to win the game feels like a good bet. Like he'll just he'll do the thing where he holds me like, all right, do I just have to get to the foul line 17 times in a second. I'll get to the foul line 17 times. My gut says this is going to be a really competitive game in the Hawks and I win.

On talent, I think that they I think they're I got his Jimmy Butler's going for like 35, 10 and 8 or something and the heat when I'm not I'm just saying everyone's pending. I already see the segments like should the Celtics be scared of the heat or the Celtics in trouble in the first round like I'm not pen and penciling in the heat in the seventh seed right now. I know their offense has been playing better lately, but I you know, the Jimmy Butler matchup is a problem for Atlanta. I would watch on John Collins may be starting on Jimmy Butler if they start the Max Drew's lineup with Max Drew's at the four because there's no one else really for for for John Collins to guard.

I thought the heat might start Caleb Martin because he's overstrews because he's guarded Trey pretty well, but we'll see and Jimmy Jimmy can guard the John Tameri to his garden really well. He can guard anybody. I don't know. My gut is my gut is smelling a little cooler.

Howard Beck you wrote for GQ this week on voter fatigue. You mentioned it before I read it and you're going to be writing for them throughout the postseason, correct? Yes, so we'll be covering the playoffs for GQ over the next few months and then beyond that we'll see. Thank you, sir.

Read everything Howard does at GQ. Listen to him whenever he talks, including on this podcast and in other places, Mr. Beck, I'm sorry to increase you with a what up. I will do it next time.

I'll see you soon, my friend. Appreciate it. Thanks, Zach. All right.

Well poor guy, Tim McMahon, you can't there's no end to this for you. There's no end to the podcast appearances. There's no end to the TV appearances. There's no end to any of this in your life because every week it's something different with the Dallas Mavericks.

And since we have last talked about the Dallas Mavericks, I can't even bear to list all the things that have happened to them. They lost their protest. They lost a whole bunch of games. Then they won a really inspiring game to stay alive in the play and race.

Right after Lucas rallying crime. We will not shut it down as long as we have any help go on. Then they lost on purpose to keep there or give themselves an 80% chance of keeping the top 10 protected pick that they owe the New York Knicks. In between all that, we don't need to rehash it, but Mark Cuban gave a long media session in which he tried to explain away the jail and runs in debacle in ways that really did not make sense.

And I think conveniently obviated some interesting facts and timelines and all that. I think I used that correctly. I don't care if I didn't, you know what I mean. I have heard some of them have heard it, but it's not going to work.

I think it's possible I use their wrong. And then the league announced that they were going to investigate the Dallas Mavericks for holding all their players out except for Luca against the Chicago Bulls in their second of last game of the season. And Luca played a quarter in a minute because it was Slovenia at night. Hope he didn't spend too much on your tickets as I said before to Slovenia.

And he'd given the big rallying cry. And so now they're under investigation. We can talk about whether we think that's fair. And then I get the FBI involved.

It's going to be a really difficult investigation to handle. I mean, wow, what's there to do there? We'll get there. And then Kyrie Irving skipped his exit interview.

I do want to clarify his exit interview with the media. I don't think he skipped out on the front office as far as I know or coaches. He just didn't talk to the media. Okay.

Pawns. And Luca in his exit interview with the media took issue with your reporting. Oh, that's the first. Even though let's be clear what Tim McMahon reported.

I'm trying to make sure everybody was. Well, you cannot overestimate the degree to which people will see it here only what they want to see here or in this case what they don't want to see. I don't know what it is. You reported that the Mavericks or some sources within the Mavericks have a fear that if things don't change that Luca Donchich may begin the process of perhaps requesting a trade as early as the summer of 2024.

You did not report that Luca Donchich and his agents Bill Duffy and Sutter have gotten together and begun to plot this out because they have not done it to my knowledge. All you did was say this team feels the same emotion rationally that any team in its position currently would feel these are the Luca Donchich. Absolutely. If the Mavericks weren't worried about Luca Donchich requesting a trade at some point in the life of his contract, they would be complete doofuses.

Doofuses is a great word. Nobody calls anybody doofuses anymore. I don't know if we should or not. I don't really know the origin of doofus but I just like the way it sounds.

I should look it up. I'll look that up and obviate when we're done here. But yeah, right. I mean, honestly, to be clear, I didn't put this out.

They're like, oh my gosh, what a revelation. This was in the 13th paragraph of a, it was packed in the context of what an awful season it was. Here's what it can mean. Here's what the matter is.

Here's the concerns moving forward. And like you said, this is common sense. Do you follow the NBA? Did you see what went down with Andy Davidson New Orleans with James Harden Houston?

Kevin Drain actually screwed up the timetable because he got out with three and a half years left in Brooklyn. But summer 2024 is when Luca would have two years left on his contract because we all know the player option, whether he can be ecstatic about thinking about that point or not. He's not picking up that player option because he's going to make a ton more money than that option is for that fifth year. So you've got 2024 of two more years left and you don't.

If they have another miserable season next year, why, how couldn't he think about man? Dude, we're not any better off six years in my career than we were when they got me as a high lottery pick. Like, what are we doing here? How do we do tick?

Tick tick. Yeah, that's all it is. And like Zach, have we talked about this all year long? Yeah.

Have honestly people in the Mavericks talked about it all year long? We talked about it. You and I, since the second it became clear Jalen Brunson was going to New York. Whenever that was and however you want to relitigate that and I do not want to spend any time on this podcast relitigating all the **** that has gotten Dallas to this point, all the decisions, all the drip drip drip of talent out the door, all the talent that never came in the door because of drafted free agency decisions and mishaps, all that.

The second Brunson was gone. The conversation went from the back burner, which is already a burner. Back burner is a burner. You can cook on the back burner up to the front burner and it's been on the front burner ever since and now the front burner is turned up a little bit.

That's all. Yeah, no, it's it's hot. It's hot. Look.

And you know, as we discussed yesterday with Luke, it's not like the Mavericks have never won. They went to Western Conference finals in the last year of his rookie deal. Like then when the next step is not even a step back, they got knocked on their asses this year and ended up in the ditch. That's the only way to describe making a massive risk of a blockbuster trade mid-season and then tanking in the last couple of games.

The trade neither of us like to be clear at the time. Right. I understood the desperation then by the way, the desperation to make that trade is all part of this broader conversation that we're having. If they don't feel like, dude, how do we get a coaster?

How do we get a coaster? Oh, God, we can't pass on a chance to get a coaster even with all the risk that that trade was made in large part because of this pressure that comes with having Luca on the roster. And it's a blessing and a curse. Would you much rather have this pressure than not?

Obviously, but it is pressure. Can you take me through the whiplash of inspirational win against the Kings? Everyone going all out to Thunder beat the Jazz and a game that was by the way competitive for about three and a quarter quarters because the Thunder are not limped to the finish line, but like it was not unreasonable. It would not have been unreasonable had Dallas not punted early to think, yeah, the Memphis beat team, they might have a shot to beat the Thunder if the Thunder feel pressure in that last game.

Like that wouldn't have been a crazy outcome even if Memphis Zamiran sat Jackson sat everybody. I can't go off the junior baby. You got a shot and the Thunder are not blowing up. Jey Lee, look at the air.

Is it just as simple as the Thunder won that game and that was what they were waiting on? Like, can you just take me through how? And then they sit everybody but Luca, which is obviously then becomes clear that's for Slovenia night. So I get that.

But is there, can you add any, any clarity to me? And I don't think it was just for Slovenia night because again, if we're going to go through the whiplash, we've got to start with, there's this kind of, I'm going to call it a trial balloon that's sent up about, Hey, and as my tank this last week of the regular season, that talk starts getting out there on Monday, Luca, who very rarely talks after a home practice talked Tuesday and he had something he wanted to say. And that was as long as there's a chance, I'm going to play. I wasn't part of that discussion.

And they know not to basically they know not to come to me with that discussion. Like I'm playing even if there's a little chance, a slim chance. Okay. And then, he doesn't play, who's going to yell at the referee?

Is there an easy day at work? Oh, I thought he might get teed up during that last little quarter that he played and just go ahead and serve a suspension, but he didn't. So you have that and then, you know, he talked a little bit more and talks about, you know, he was like, transparent as he is. Hey, no, there's not confidence.

How could there be? He said nine at 10, it was seven at a time. And, you know, chemistry is just not the same this year. And that's when I said, well, how much you guys miss Bronson?

Cause everybody knows what Bronson meant to that team that was around them. And he just looks so pain and he said a lot. I just kind of shake his head. So then we go the next day, Mark Cuban, who has not been available to the media very often.

This has been a pretty significant shift really over the last couple of years since Nico Harrison got hired. He makes a point to kind of scroll out and make himself available about two and a half hours before tip talks to media for about 45 minutes. And his agenda was the Bronson Blaine basically shifting it off. You know, all the Bronson's fault.

You want to keep Kyrie, but then I think he kind of put himself in a little bit when he wouldn't flat out say, hey, we're not going to get out big, which he said about Bronson last year. Didn't that be true? What are you too old for you to blame your own failures on your parents or for people to blame things you do on your parents? I feel like the time limitations passed on like, oh, Rick, Bronson told Jalen what to do.

And that's what happened. Well, it'd be clear Jalen's not blaming his dad. Jalen's happy. Jalen is having a borderline all NBA year for a fifth seat of the Eastern Conference.

That by the way, I think it's going to, well, we'll see where Randall is. I think it's going to be competitive series. I was going to say, I think that might be the best first round series. It's going to be a fun one.

And then, you know, about Lucas long term kind of optimism for the franchise. I thought he would really hit this one right on the money. Basically, I'm a paraphrase, but he said, I think he wants to be here his whole career, but we've got to earn that. We've got to earn that.

It is a direct quote. So the fans need to listen because he's telling them that they're worried. He's telling them. Yeah.

He's stating the obvious. And what he, you know, it's a tough question to answer because like, what do you, you can't say, oh my gosh, we're terrified, but you also can't say, look, it's going to be his whole career because then look, it's like, oh, wow, you're taking me for granted. So, you know, it's a tough question to answer. I'll acknowledge that.

But I thought what he said is 100% accurate. Then they go out, they beat the Kings. Cattery goes bonkers in the fourth quarter, scores 19 in the fourth quarter. And you know what that might have ended up being, we'll see how things play out.

But that might have ended up being Kyrie Irving's last moment's wearing a Dallas Mavericks uniform because Friday, they made the decision to pull the plug on the season. And I was shocked. I'm not going to lie to you. I was shocked when I got the alert for the injury report Friday morning because everybody was listed as, you know, they were ready to go guns and blades and they're going to play everybody.

And as you mentioned, they've lost jazz, they've lost the previous night to the thunder. So that was, you know, it was when or be eliminated and they knew, hey, OK, so you win so for now you're limited. Anyways, the percentages said this was the rational move for the Mavericks to make. You laid out the pick protections of New York.

If you're top 10, 80% chance, you keep it. If you're not, it's like an 8.7% chance. They were tied with the Bulls for the fifth best odds. So losing to the Bulls is like a double whammy in the tank direction you're trying to go.

The only reason I was shocked by all this was because Luca had been so firm, so adamant. And by his standards, really was a rallying cry. You know, he even mentioned like, I always say, you got to believe, like I said, we were down two O against the Suns last year. You know, you always got to believe when you got any chance.

69 bets, baby. There you go. And then obviously they lose those last two. Luca did come out for exit interviews and ask Luca, like, what changed from when you said that Tuesday to Friday?

And he just said, I didn't like that decision. That's it. Like, well, were you involved in it? Did they discuss it with you?

He's like, yeah, obviously. And basically just said, hey, we came to an agreement and essentially they did something he didn't want to do. And what it comes down to is this. Obviously the Mavericks are walking on eggshells with Luca.

Like we can talk about any team that he, you know, once you get to certain statuses, superstars, franchise, walking eggshells with these guys, just the way it is. The decision ultimately was, hey, Luca might be pissed about this right now, but the only chance for his long-term happiness is for us to really make drastic progress building a roster around him. And dude, if we don't have a top 10 picture this year, oh boy. So they felt like essentially, you know, Luca ultimately, what he wants is as much talent around him as possible.

And sorry that Tankton's got to be part of that process, but they felt like that was the position they put themselves in. To be clear, the difference between 10th and 11th in the lottery order is as gargantuan as it gets. So currently you just said that you want to top 10 protected pick, yes. Yes.

Currently, they have, as you said, a 79.8, 80% chance, we'll say, of being 10 or higher. Had they just went up in the standings, slouched down in the lottery to 11th, they have a 90% chance of picking 11th or higher. I mean, that is a stark, a percentage difference that you're going to get. It's why they did it.

We all know why they did it. They had someone, spitballing with me yesterday saying, you know, the Mavs, it's rational, Zach, it's rational. I'm going to give you a hot take here, Zach. The Mavs are closer to winning a title now than they were in the conference finals last season.

And I said, they were fine. They weren't by definition. Like eight wins away from winning the title last year. That's insane talk.

That's insane talk. But it's some people think that. But look, if someone told you to make a man, amen, there's a 20% chance you're going to get struck by lightning today if you leave your house. But you really had something you wanted to do.

Like you had tickets to the Super Bowl or something like that. It's like 80% chance you can go watch the Super Bowl and sit in a suite. 20% chance you can get struck by lightning. I'm guessing you're staying home.

Yeah, plus, honestly, I don't want to sit in traffic anyway. So yeah, I'm definitely sitting in the middle. My point is I haven't gone back to research yet. Given the humiliation and the embarrassment that they suffered or inflicted upon themselves to get to this point, I don't know that there's been a team in the lottery.

There's obviously teams with hopes, right? Like Bobcats way back when in the AD draft, they went in hoping, right? But everyone has hope to leap up to number one and number two. Everyone at the bottom has that every year.

I don't know if there's been a team that's going to have the butt cheeks clenched as tightly out of fear of that 20% as the Dallas Mavericks. Whoever is there represented in the lottery room in May, I want to sit next to that person because I want to see the tension on their face because 20% is non-trivial. It is non-trivial. And if they end up fork-in this pick over on top of all this, that is just an all-time moment.

And I'm not saying I don't know. I have no rooting interest. I'm just saying like people are acting as if they've kept the pick. 20% is not nothing.

20% is something. And listen, people in Dallas, longtime Mavericks fans know all too well how cruel lottery but can be the Mavericks have quite literally never moved up in the lottery. And there have been times when, you know, like they were awful. I think they had like the second best odds and moved down to four in the Shack Draft, for example, even in the Luca Draft, they tanked.

Even paid 600 grand for Blurton on Dr. J's podcast that they were tanking. And they end up with the third best lottery odds. They got bumped down to fifth and had to give up next year's first round pick to move back up to get him.

The lottery has been a cruel, cruel bee to the Mavericks. And hey, maybe that means they're finally doing some good luck. I'm not quite sure the way that they went about getting the 10 best odds is one to generate good karma. But moving down again would just be an absolute disaster.

Why do you think the league is investigating them and do you think it's fair? So I think that the league is investigating them for primarily because they were so brazen about it because it was so embarrassing for the league. Their pride and joy is playing. Hey, you know, the terrible teams might tank, but the teams, you know, we're going to have more teams that have a chance.

It's going to prevent tanking. And then the Mavericks base said play in. You don't want to play in. You want to freak in lottery people.

You talk about it. You talk about it a lot. Honestly, because Jason Kidd didn't use the word tank, but he said a whole lot of words that can be boiled down to those four letters. Basically, my boss has told me to do it.

This thing that we're doing. He called it an organizational decision, you know, essentially to prioritize the long-term interest in roster building over the slim chance to make him the player. He was honest. So I think they're being investigated because it's the first rule of the tank club.

You don't say you're tanking, right? And he said this was an eco-harrison decision and a Mark Cuban decision. So was there an NBA team governor, as we call them now, that has been fined over the last five years for publicly admitting tanking? Oh, there is one.

It's Mark Cuban. So there's history there as well. But listen, I'll say this. If you're going to say, well, because they tanked when they still had play in chances, that's the difference.

I've got a lot. I have good relationship with a lot of people in the Utah Jazz Organization. I'm here to tell you, you can look at the Jazz's injury reports and do your own math. That's why this investigation thing, like really, what do you investigate?

You know what happened? What are you going to do about it? Like, whatever you just immediately decides it's on them. Well, that's not an act like you need to go higher fricking, you know, the watergate reporters to get to the bottom of this thing.

So there is a difference both in timing and in optics of a team with a chance with one day to go or two days to go, pumping on that chance. But there's only a difference in timing and optics because the Jazz and the Blazers, who damn near signed you and me to play the last couple of games for them, there's only a difference because those two teams pulled the plug earlier for whatever reasons, Damien Lillard, this, the AFRED assignments injury, not one. They were smart enough to just, well, everyone's looking over there, they'll pull the plug. And so by the time you get to this high profile moment, the decision has already been made you already forgot about it.

I don't know, there is a difference between hanging around, hanging around, hanging around and then pulling the plug at the last minute. There is a difference because they had more of a chance at the end, but only because they didn't pull the plug earlier. So I don't know that there's enough of a material difference. And I think you nailed it.

Also, is it worse to compete until the 81st game or just to pull the plug about like whatever the 60th game, like I'm sorry, what Portland tank lasers have done the last two years? Honestly, if I'm in the league off, some say, Hey, do we need to somehow come up with rules requiring a Glee player to be a, you know, to have certain statistical requirements to be signed to attend a because this is a two year old trend. Portland has been one of the primary teams to do this, but they're intentionally signing Glee players who aren't very good and playing them heavy minutes. The NBA did not claim North think that they had eradicated tanking with the play in tournament and even just isolated the revised lottery odds that came before the play in tournament.

They didn't claim that. And I wrote a piece analyzing the revised lottery odds when they happened. And I said, this is designed to eradicate the ugliest, just we're going to win 15 games this season tanking. I'm not going to be very successful at that.

But I said in that piece, there are going to be teams who bail out with 20 games to go because now there's a big profitable difference between ninth and fifth and Portland tank their damn way all the way to fifth in the lottery. And that's exactly what happened. And there is a difference between doing that with 20 games left and one game left. I just think it's a difference purely of timing and strategy.

The effect is it looks worse, but I'm not sure it's worse enough to marry the investigation and to your point, the reason they're being investigated is because they talked about it. That's if they just not said anything, I think the NBA would probably have privately called them and said, look, man, this sucks your spit in the face of the play and they would say, look what the players did and that would be the end of it. But they talked about it. It looks worse, but what's worse for the integrity of the league, a team that is tanking for months or a team that's tanking for days, neither is great.

And the NBA has a massive tanking problem. I would challenge Adam Silver and other people in the league office to figure out a way to deal with it. Our colleague Tim Bondt, who actually has a very interesting scenario, I suggest you have him on at some point and run through it. If he never comes on, he's too busy.

He's never comes on. He's too busy with the hoop collective. I ask him that I can't do it. I'm recording that.

I can't do it. All right. Everybody's not as nice as I am. I tell you I like the wheel that I want to do the whole draft thing.

That's a nice look. At some point, let's have a summer conversation about that during slower times. My thing with the draft and changing the draft and equalizing the draft and eliminating the lottery and just let the best team pick whatever it is, is you have to, those are abolishing the draft, having it be free agency. Those are all interesting ideas that are worthy of interrogation.

You just have to ask yourself this question. Are you comfortable with the best team getting Victor Wienbanjama? Are you comfortable with the team, with the Warriors getting Scoot Henderson? If you are, then by all means advocate for the most dramatic changes possible.

But a lot of those changes are going to crack open the door to the juggernaut just got the best guy. And I'm like, hey, what that's fine. If that makes you a little worried because of talent and balance and all that, that's a different thing. The other thing with the Mads is this.

There was a lot of Twitter clowning. And again, I was active on NBA Twitter. So I really am. A lot of people clowning the Wizards.

And here's hashtag so wizards and other 35 win season or whatever it is. And Tommy Shepard did his media today. And I saw a quote about how he was disgusted and disappointed to be 35 and whatever he was. And everyone's response was, what kind of team did you think you built?

Man, it's the same goddamn team every year. You just hear a play in your boss every year. And I don't know that you can mock the Wizards for being this mediocrity that seems satisfied with its own mediocrity and urge them to pick a direction by which you're really saying get worse because the Wizards don't have the capability and assets right now to get better. And then, Tisk Tisk the Mavs for protecting their own future.

Now I understand. You can circumstance their different timings different. Their paths here are different. The Mavs had an actual base of accomplishments last year in the Conference Finals at the Wizards.

So I get it's all different. I'm just saying if you're mocking the Wizards and tisting the Mavericks, there's a middle ground where you can do both of those things. It's pretty narrow. So again, I think that what the Mavericks did was embarrassing.

You can criticize it, but you have to understand the logic. The way you really blast the Mavericks is, dude, you've got an MVP caliber superstar who turned 24 years old during this season. And you were that bad after you traded for another All-Star mid-season. After you made a massive risk of a win-out deal, you were that bad.

So we're tanking at the end of the season made sense. That's the problem. I can't wait till we can talk about a different team than the Mavericks. Which is true.

I'm heading to Memphis this weekend. We can talk about the Grizzlies. Because I don't want to talk about the Rockets either. God bless Stephen Silas.

Didn't work out. That's over. I'm a fan. Great guy.

We have no idea how good of a coach he is because he never had a chance. What did Tillman for Tina say at Mardi Gras, a praying for Victor? Right. It was more like this.

Ready for Victor. Well, a cup in hand. I don't know the lottery gods. The lottery gods are fickle.

I don't know if they respect that sort of blatant pandering. We'll see how they treat the Mavericks. Yeah, the lottery gods might like Mardi Gras. They might like to party.

I still think the basketball gods, the lottery gods, all the gods. I just think when Manama's going to say Natalia, I've said that for... I sound like a moron. Obviously, I'm in the drawing room of yours.

I see what it is. My gut says the Spurs are going to win Manama. Victor comes to Texas. I'm going to have to have a chitchat with bosses as far as exactly what my life looks like.

I think that's that. But I don't know if in the drawing room, I don't know what happens if you have a bathroom emergency, if you're allowed to leave the drawing room. But man, if the Mavs come up 11, 12, 13, 14, who's ever in there for the Mavs, that person might want to vomit somewhere. I'm going to have my eyes on that person.