Ben Platt

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. Hi, Monica Badman. Hi, Dax Shepard. Today, we have a very talented young man, one of our youngest guests.

Yeah, he's a prodigy, one would say. He's a prodigy. He's a 25-year-old prodigy. Yeah.

You and I have not accomplished virtually anything at 25. No, no, just some farts. Have you been in your Mermaid commercial at 25? No.

Not even in your Mermaid. Oh, maybe. I can't remember. Okay, too far back.

Our guest is Ben Platt. Now, Ben Platt is an actor and a singer and a songwriter. He came into wide prominence in the Broadway musical Dear Evan Hansen, which he won the Tony for. Well-deserved.

I saw it on Broadway. It was unbelievable. Very moved you were. Oh, my God, yeah.

Impossible not to be. You flew there just to see that. I did, and I almost didn't get in because of the ticket. You had to print the ticket, and I didn't have the ticket printed, and I was panicked.

You had to go to a hotel to use their printer? Yes, and I was running through the city like a movie. Yeah, and even with that amount of post-traumatic stress, he's still a great memory. That's how good it was.

He also was in The Book of Mormon, a very popular musical. So good. The hit franchise, Pitch Perfect. Ugh, I love all these things.

They're all great. He has an album out right now called Sing to Me Instead. And then lastly, he has a new show called The Politician that will be on Netflix on September 27th. It sounds like a delicious Ryan Murphy show, and I hope everyone will check that out, and I hope Okay, okay.

It's fucking party time. Hi, Ben Platt. Hello, Dad. Welcome to Armchair Expert.

We're in a unique situation right now. Okay. To bring the listeners up to speed. Yes.

We don't know each other. We're from Shinola. Right. It was Kristen's birthday party yesterday, and I cold-tweeted you.

Just, I DM'd you. I can't even explain how loud I was. You followed me. Of course.

So that, right there, I was already feeling confident. And then I DM'd you and said it's someone's birthday on Sunday, and I think the biggest present I could possibly get would be your presence at the party. In my mind, I hate sending something like that. I'm like, oh, God, how annoying.

And then you wrote back, absolutely, what time? Can I bring a friend? I was like, oh, my goodness. And then you came yesterday.

Well, first of all, let's go through the tweet. When you first saw that were you like, oh, boy. Do you get invited to a lot of birthday parties? Not really.

You don't. And I met Kristen at my show at the Belby afterwards. Yes. She couldn't have been more lovely and complimentary.

And she also did hair at the Hollywood Bowl with my brother Jonah. So I already heard wonderful things about her. And I'm also a fan of yours, hence that I followed you. Oh, my goodness.

Parenthood is a big deal in my household. It is. Very big deal. Oh, that's really nice.

It's one of the only shows that we've all enjoyed together. Oh, really? Oh, that's nice. And I'm trying to think, because you're 25 right now?

Yes. You're 25. So what, 16 that came out or something? Yeah, like late high school, into college years.

I didn't go to college, but into that time. Well, you think you do six weeks at Columbia? I did. Yeah, so don't say you go to college.

I mean, you didn't do much at college, but you did go. I weirdly also did a production pair while I was there. Yes. One thing I accomplished on that.

Yeah, yeah. So when you met Kristen, I assume she came backstage after your concert. She came by that. Okay.

And you couldn't have possibly been viewing it because you were on stage, but she was Instagram storing. I saw the effect. Okay, you did. So you saw the effect you had on her.

I did. I wish so bad I could have the effect on her that you did. I mean, if I even have the effect. I guess you have other effects on her that I don't, so.

Yeah, but it balances out. They ran out of steam a decade ago. But your stuff is really right now, because she, I think, cried for 75 of 90 minutes from what I observed. And I can only think of a couple people she's really had this reaction to, and you and then Lin-Manuel.

Who also ended up arriving at the birthday. Which is so crazy. No way. And I assume you must know each other.

Yes, we've collaborated on the March of Our Lives song together. Yes. So yeah, you know, she really had a horseshoe over her ass. It was the best birthday anyone could have given her.

Also, speaking of, it's been such a long time coming because I tried to give the gift of you to her two Christmases ago. The gift of your lunch, I think. Yes. What method did you try?

Oh, I didn't have a direct contact. I was probably supposed to one of these people. I don't know. I was telling everything, but you were not in town, so it was a lot of scheduling.

Alas, I'm usually in NYC. Yeah. Do you live there? Yes, you do.

I do. And having grown up here, tell me why you like it there, and tell me if you think you'll stay there. I do think that I'll stay there. I've always sort of vibed better with there.

I think I'm generally a very frenetic and anxious person. Sort of type A quick moving stuff. And so I think when the place around me is also doing that, it's a nice match. You might think that something that's a little bit more sort of laid back and spread out the way that this is would have like a positive effect.

But to me, it sort of does the opposite. It makes me kind of more frustrated and anxious. It does. And also I think anywhere that's your hometown just kind of gets a bad rap.

Like I revert to my TH self because I grew up here whenever I come home and I feel like I'm sort of stunted whenever I'm back here. Yeah. Well, you can love where you're from and love the people. And also at a certain point in your life decided I'm leaving there and becoming someone different.

This is my case, leaving Detroit. Yes. And coming here and going, I'm going to become a different person. I'm going to pursue this other side of myself.

So then when I go back, it inadvertently reminds me of the old role I used to play and when I tried to escape. Feels like a couple steps backward. Right. And also just by virtue, like in the superficial sense, Broadway's in New York and live theater lives in New York.

And that's always my home base. So this is never going to be really a theater. So we've a couple of times worked there and had to stay for extended periods of time there. And always the first two months there, I'm like, this is the greatest thing in the world.

We must live here before we die. And then about month three, I start feeling like Algernon in a maze. And I don't see daylight half the day because it's only peeking through that. And I start getting real cagey.

Did you get claustrophobic ever there? Not really. I think there's enough reprieve areas. Like I live right next Central Park, so I frequent there quite a bit.

And also Prospect Park is really beautiful. And I find that I can decide on any given day if I want to feel like entirely anonymous and solo and alone or if I want to feel like surrounded by people and lost and lost stuff. Yeah. So you were born the year I graduated high school.

And as I warned you in the driveway, I'm going to uncover it and resent your youth throughout this interview. But yes, I graduated in 93. You were born in 93. You were just a tiny little baby.

Only for the second half of 93 too. Right, right. Late in 93. September 24th.

Okay, so that's when I'll be returning the favor and doing a chip striptease or something. I just want to know when I need to be like camera ready. Yes, that's the time. Okay, I'll start dieting.

You can bring as many other women as possible. Okay, great. So you grew up here and your father is Mark Platt. First of all, do you love or hate that any interview that you'll ever do will involve your father?

Is that good or bad love? At this point, it's good. At the beginning, it was a challenge because industry wise, people assume the worst and they think you've only got the opportunities you've gotten because of where you come from. And you've got the line and you've taken shortcuts.

And while I certainly learned a lot from my dad, and of course, was in rooms as a kid where I got to just be familiar with the way that things work and with the logistics of everything in the business and stuff. I think at this point, it's at least clear that I've got my own chops. Your dad can't get you a Tony. I don't think so.

Right. But for people who don't know, your father produced the movie Legally Blonde, La La Land, Mary Poppins Returns, but probably most significantly in your life, I would imagine is Wicked. Yes. Right.

Which I've seen it 29 times. You've seen it 29 times. I have seen it in London, Costa Mesa, Chicago, Australia, Broadway a bunch of times. And you were about 10 when that debuted?

I was 10. Yeah. Okay. And did you immediately love it?

Or did it represent something that was taking your father's attention away from you? Oh, no, I loved it. I also grew up loving Wizard of Oz. I'll take like an ounce of credit for my dad's interest in that book in the first place.

But like kids that young, I think it's like kind of the target. I mean, Wicked has something for everyone, but that is sort of the target of like awe-inspiring reaction to that show. And I think I was just floored by it and couldn't believe that my dad made it and also was dying to be in that community in that scene. So I think it was very aspirational to see that.

Yeah. And I assume you got to be around Chris in general. Of course. Yeah.

Well, my first job before even Wicked was when I was nine, I did music at the Hollywood Bowl before she had done Glinda and she was marrying librarians. I played her little brother. So I already knew and loved her very much. One of the most likable human beings on the planet.

It's hard not to be obsessed. And you could really underestimate her and then she opens up her mouth and then fucking roaring thunder comes out. Like six different sounds of roaring. Yes.

There's like four people in it. Yes. So you were around that. You just pointed out that you had actually done a play when you were nine.

So when did it start? Well, I started doing theater at a kid's program called The Idley School where all my siblings before me went. I have three older siblings, one younger. All three older ones are gone.

I started going when I was like six years old and like Cinderella and Oliver and like little kid shows and loved it. Not necessarily in a very discernible way from all the other kids loving it until I was nine and the Hollywood Bowl inquired to my program and was like, we have a bunch of kids for the band and for the music band and for Winthrop and all it. And I really didn't want to go. I got really scared.

I was crying out of my parents. I was like, I don't want to do this. And I think that they could sense how much I would love if I just got through myself off the ledge. Yeah.

As I walked in the room, I was bit by the bug and I felt completely home. You bring up the very hardest part about parenting. If they want to do something, you sign them up or you schedule the whole thing. And then a day before they just said they don't want to do it.

Yes. And you're like, at what point do I push them? It's an instinct thing. I think my parents generally have done a pretty good job of knowing when to put the band.

That's kind of the only time they really needed to put the band on. Once you got a taste of that sweet heroin out there. I was like, everybody's looking at me and wanting to hear what I have to say and say. And I can't believe that I can carry a tune.

Uh-huh. For the first time to be on stage in public to be at the Hollywood Bowl is pretty incredible, right? Yeah. It's 20,000 people or something.

I think that it's almost less scary for me. The place like that always has been less personal because it's such a faceless blog rather than 20 people up in your face. Right. So I think it was kind of a good icebreaker of just like, if I can do this here, I can do it anywhere.

Yeah. Later in this interview, when you perform Evan Hansen in its entirety, in front of just us four, it's going to feel pretty rough. Yeah. You did that.

And then you went to a performing arts school. I think you just mentioned the name of it. I was doing that program all through. Well, I went to J school for proper, like for like K through 8th grade, but always I was doing the after school program at the Adderley School.

And then I went to the high school at Harvard Westlake a studio city. They have a fantastic arts and theater program. That's kind of where I got solidified. It's also where I made all of my best friends that I still have.

So you loved that school? Love, love, love high school. Everything about it, every minute of it. Really?

I would go back. For me, Harvard Westlake is like, oh, it must have been so intimidating. There's like billionaires there. People are going on family vacations, like on a jet to a mansion on top of a mountain.

How do you behave in that situation? All those things. Like that's immediately where my mind goes. But you didn't have that experience.

Not really. To me, it was just all of these like-minded people who all thought it was so cool to have talent and be interested in art and be committed to the art and were as geeky as I was. And there's a classical choir and an improv group and a playwright's festival with student plays every year. And it was like a kid to kid like I just loved that everybody took me seriously as I did.

And of course, the reason we're having a program like that is because the school has a lot of money. So I've certainly taken that for granted, of course. Right, right. Well, I think you're right.

At least my school had about six dedicated theater folks and then three that weren't sure while they were in there, but they were there. So yeah, much different vibe at my school. Did your school have done the conventional like jocks and stoners? So no.

I mean, there was like, you know, the like popular girls-ish and there was athletes were treated very well and there was definitely football players, but it was like a comically progressive place in the sense that it was very cool to be gay or like very cool to have a buddy that's gay. You know, there was not really like a bullying situation really. And like even the kids that are like, you know, quote unquote nerdy sort of social pride kids all have their own group. Right.

So were you out in high school? Yes, you are. The whole ride. Yeah.

That's incredible. I'm locked into a point of view where I grew up in the 80s where it was very, very life threatening to be open to gay. Sure. There's still parts of the country where it is.

Yeah, because I saw a very ugly part of it. Sure. By my comparison in 2019, I'm like, this is looking pretty good. Yeah.

And then because of that, I'm not uber aware of what stuff still left. I guess in the same way that some people are like, oh, we have a black president. No more racism in America. We fix it.

So, you know, in some way, I'm like, oh, everyone get married now. We're good. Our kids can be open to gay in high school. We got there.

Right. But probably not. I'm a little delusional. I mean, relatively, it's nine day, of course, because everybody get married and there's a lot weeks forward.

But I also have only ever spent, you know, significant amounts of time in liberal bubbles. So I know what it's like still to be in Arkansas or Mississippi and there's still kids, you know, experiencing self-harm because of it or feeling like they can't be disowned because of it. Yeah. To be like the trans community, you know, getting murdered all over.

Like it's just, it's definitely not all the way there. Right. Right. Right.

But I mean, we're farther than we've been. Got Buttigieg up there on the stage, which is cool. And yeah, you know, I'll take it. There'll be a gay president in your life, I'm certain.

That'd be great. I mean, we've probably already had a gay president. We've probably had a gay everything. Yeah, 100%.

You're the fourth oldest of five. Yes. That's real middle-y middle child. Was there any attention for you?

Did we craving a spotlight? No, I think I always had my own lane because I was working since I was a kid. I like was in my world while I was rehearsing things. I'm very much happy doing my thing or doing shows in my backyard or enlisting one or two of my siblings to do them with me.

And then I let the moments where I had performances be like, here's my moment. Yeah. I guess you had an outlet from a pretty young age to go get some of that tasty attention. Totally.

And all my siblings and I and parents love singing in theater and it's something that we always bond over. So that's kind of always been our brain butter of like being in the car and singing along to cast albums or whenever someone has a bar mitzvah wedding, we'll like rewrite a theater song to be about them. That's always our mode of communication. From an outside, it sounds like a really fun thing.

I'll also add, I think I told you yesterday when you came over that I had a couple meetings with your father. And generally when you go take general meetings with really huge producers, which father is one of the biggest producers. Sure. I think Wicked is the second biggest musical of all time behind Lion King.

It's a Goliath. Totally fucking normal guy. He stuck out as someone. He's a very cool normal dude.

He is. I've always been during the levels that he's able to reach while maintaining like a lot of integrity and not making any enemies and just being like himself. He tried to emulate that as much as possible. I'll apply to him this kind of thing that Jon Stewart introduced me to on Howard Stern, which is this rabbinical approach where it's like you're able to listen and actually just listen.

Yeah. Rabbinical is a good word for him. Okay, good. I know.

All right. So do you come out to your siblings first? No. So I called my parents.

I was on a school trip and there was some sort of scuffle where like there was like a misunderstanding about this kid making a comment about me being gay. Essentially, like it was being interpreted as a bullying thing. Like really the kid was just stating a fact and like he's my buddy. Okay.

And so I didn't want my parents to hear about that through the grapevine because of like our chaperones and stuff. So I was like, let me just get up ahead of this. I called them from the trip. And there was a very like a lack of surprise or real just we know.

And my mom saying I have a lot of books that I've been trying to read and I'm going to read them and you know. Just kind of the dream response. Exactly. Which I've of course taken for granted.

But I think that's part of the blessing is the ability to take it for granted is like not making that become a traumatic or like an impediment kind of a moment. Yeah. Just like a moment. I guess too there's a potentially awkward moment in that moment, which is we knew, sweetie.

And so for me, I would be a little triggered by like you can't presume to know everything about me. Even though they would be right, I'd be a little bit like, oh, did you knew? I mean, I spent most of my childhood trust with Dorothy from Wizard of Oz. Yeah, but I carried a purse around for like three years.

It was a really useful utility bag I had. I do always just wonder like if either of my children appeared to be gay, if I would be tempted to broach the subject with them. Right. Just to take the load off their plate.

And then what if I was wrong? And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What would you think about that? Just let the kid?

I really liked that they let me come to them first. Although I think that I had the luxury of them making it very clear in other ways that it would be not a big deal in the sense that they were game in my house for my whole life. And my dad works in the theater. And so like everybody who works in the theater is a game in.

Yeah, it's pretty high percentage. Before it was even like a sexualized thing. When I as a kid before I understood any of that, it was more of like a Ring of Keys fun home situation where I was like, I'm like that guy. I recognize that.

So I think it's a nice thing to just make sure it's like in the air that that's cool and we're cool. We have having people around there in the community. But I don't necessarily think it's like, you know, if you are gay, so you can tell me that's maybe what makes somebody recoil. I'm not encouraging any parents out there to go lasso a gay gentleman and incorporate them into your life.

But I will say your actions speak a lot louder than your words. So if you're saying, oh, we love everyone. Yet you look around the friendship circle and there's no one in there except for other straight white males. It says a lot, probably.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was a luxury. I had a very wide range of folks hanging around.

And then your brothers and sisters, I'm sure they felt similarly. Yes. That one took a little longer just because it's like they're your buddies. And so it's a little bit weird.

By the time I was in high school, I told all of them and we're little brothers gay too. So we've been able to sort of bond over that and have a very similar kind of sense of humor. It's really nice. So two of five, 40%.

40%. Okay. Now when you're 19, you go to college for six weeks. Yeah.

So basically I finished high school and was supposed to go to college that following fall at Columbia. And then I booked Pitch Perfect, the film, like two weeks before I was supposed to leave. So I just took like my duffels to Louisiana instead to shoot and deferred for a year. Uh-huh.

And then did a bunch of plays to fill out the rest of that year. And then I started properly the following fall with plans to go and lasted about six weeks. And then in the middle of October, I left and never. Okay.

And were parents fully supportive of you? pursuing a film and television? Very much so. I mean, I think the Pitch Perfect thing was not a big decision.

It was sort of like, it was a great studio film, great opportunity. A lot of my friends were taking dab years anyway, so that was an easy one. It was more of the leaving in the second place. That was a discussion.

Right. When you were at that age, were you singularly focused on Broadway? Was that where you wanted to go, or were you just as open to, like, starting to act in movies? I think Broadway wasn't always sort of my, like, passion project in the sense I don't think anything is, like, as ingrained in me as that, because that's what I was raised on, and that's what I feel, like, the most personal connection to.

I certainly was interested in doing as wide variety of stuff as possible, whether that's original music or film or anything, but I think I didn't have nearly the confidence in my ability to be in that arena, and so Pitch Perfect because there was a musical element to it, and because Jason Moore's writing, who comes from theater as well, was a really nice bridge of, like, oh, this is a world that I can feel comfortable in, and I started to love it just as much, but for obviously very different reasons. It's a different muscle. So now, I often contemplate what effect having money will have on my children. I feel like in the best version possible, they just won't be that motivated by money.

I guess that's what I'm kind of hoping happens, because I was only motivated by money still, to this day, I'm only motivated by money. Sure. So, when you have a family with money, when you take Pitch Perfect, are you aware of the fact, like, oh, that'd be great, I'll go make seven grand a week, or whatever the sag thing is at that point in your career? Are you going like, oh, I'm going to get my own money, or you don't even give a shit?

You're just going there because you want to be in it? Not quite yet. I think I was still in a very teenage mindset of, like, this is a great career opportunity, and let's get open doors and lead to other things. I think more so now, as I've started to live on my own and pay for my own home and things like that, I've started to take that into account.

I mean, I still, obviously, have the blessing and the luxury of getting to lead with my creative foot rather than just with that, but I think I would love to be able to provide for my family, the life that my family provided for me, and so I'm certainly trying to keep that in the back of my mind, but at that point, I think it was more just about, I want to go do a musical movie with Anna Kendrick and Rob Wilson. Right, but it is still a self-esteem checkmark for you, like, oh, I made my own means, I paid for my own way, I completely passed something on to my children, that kind of thing, still, you still have that desire. 100%, particularly now with projects like Politician, which is I'm doing that for my EP on it, and I feel some ownership over it, and I feel like it's more of even like a principle thing to be properly compensated, like it feels more like an arrival point. Yeah, knowing your value.

So, you get Book of Mormon, and it's a Chicago production at first. Right, so we opened the production Chicago from scratch, which was nice, because we got to have a whole rehearsal process with the creative team to start from the beginning, as opposed to entering an already moving machine, and so I think the reason that my parents were okay with me going and doing that was because we would be reviewed, and it would be its own production, and it was a lot more effective than just going right to replacing. Yeah, so just quickly for the non-Broadway nerds in the audience, which I'm in that sector, so generally, when there's a successful play on Broadway, they just kind of pick it up and move it somewhere, and how does that work? So if something runs long enough, and they want to start opening other productions, they'll use the same creative team, same staging, same production, same costumes, it's the reproduction of the show, which is a new cast, but the upside of that is if you're starting a new company, then especially in a major city like Chicago or Los Angeles, you get reviewed by a lot of people, and it's much more of a sort of public...

Kind of a new take on it, right? Exactly, you get more of an opportunity to reinvent than if you're just replacing on Broadway, because in Broadway, you know, one or two actors are leading at a time, and you're rehearsing, you know, during the day in the theater when that cast is not there with, like, a stage manager and maybe, like, an associate director, just learning the track so that you can slot right in when that person leaves, as opposed to feeling like you're building a whole show from the ground up with a whole new group of people. So I think because I got to do that first and then go and replace in New York, it gave me much more of a lane to recreate the character for myself, because I was also replacing Josh Gad, who, you know, very well. And he was a crazy standout in that.

Unbelievable, and, you know, kicked off his whole generous career, but I think it was very clear from the get-go that I am not Josh Gad, and I'm not going to do that version. So I don't know that I would have had the opportunity to really build my own if I had gone right into the New York cast. So you had obviously seen the musical on Broadway. Oh, yes.

And you had to have loved it, right? Loved it. Me and my best friend Beanie used to listen to it on the way to school all the time. We loved it.

Yeah, one of only two musicals I've ever enjoyed. Really? Yes, Hamilton. All right.

Yeah, it had enough history. And I didn't see Dear Evan Hansen, so I just want to say it's not that I'm saying I didn't like it. I have heard Dear Evan Hansen upwards of 10 million times in my household, and I've watched my wife with a blank look on her face just sing every word of it to me, as if I'm not even there. But you're going to point out Beanie.

Beanie's coming on tomorrow, Wednesday. She's coming in this week. Yeah, she's the best. Did you meet her at that Harvard-Westlake school?

I did. Well, I met her in middle school. We both went to see a production of Company at Harvard-Westlake when we were in seventh grade. We met and like had this weird spark together, but then it was before like cell phones or anything or Facebook even, and so we just sort of said like, hope I see you again.

And then the first day of ninth grade, we were like, I remember you, I remember you, what's your lunch period? Seventh, mine, two, and then. Uh-huh. And then a love affair that won't be stopped.

Exactly. So you had seen it with Beanie and you obviously were pretty blown away by it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's one of the funniest shows you'll ever see, and it's just like a non-stop belly laughing.

It's hard to breathe. It's just really, really funny. I mean, it's Trey and Matt, so it's absolutely brilliant. And there's a line that got me in trouble on this podcast.

There's a line that goes, did you know that Jesus was born here in the USA? And I said that. Yes, but Mormons do not believe that he was born there, just that he came through here. But at any rate, I digress.

So when you got to make it your own, and did you feel, ultimately, did you feel great about it? Like, oh, I found a whole different thing to do, and it's working? Totally. When I was auditioning, I thought it was just a way to get in front of Casey Nicola and train Matt, because it was, everybody in the whole room was like mid-30s, bigger guys, look just like Josh, glasses, curly hair, and just me.

Every time there was a call back, I just kind of kept sticking around. I was like, this is nice that they're humoring me and letting me kind of figure this out. And then when I got it, I was kind of determined to make my version work because they had taken such a risk letting me, because when a formula works and you're just trying to reproduce it, it's rare that they'll go in a different direction of any kind. Yeah, I don't want to order a Big Mac and get fucking taco meat on top.

That's not what I'm expecting. Exactly. But I made the taco meat really work. Thank God they put this taco meat on here.

And yeah, it was really fun to get to have that middle step of working within a preconceived box but still having room within that to do my own stuff. So by the time I got to Evan and I'm doing something completely from scratch, it felt like a natural progression. Yeah, so when you did the Chicago production, did you think, I will end up doing this now on Broadway? Was that like in the stars?

It was the hope. I think once it was received well and once it was clear that my version of it really worked, and particularly with my co-star Nick Rouleau, who created Elder Price, which is the other co-star with me in Chicago, I think it was clear that the two of us had a good thing going. So I think the hope was always that they bring us over there together, which they did. Right, and then so that is your Broadway debut, right?

What is that night like? Really surreal. It's just the little things that I remember, like there's like always a chart in the lobby of all the cast members in alphabetical order of every Broadway theater going to and just having my little slide card in there was like a very weird thing to see and seeing my name in the playbill. And I don't even remember the show itself that night, but I just remember those little, like having my mic waiting for me and like a little pouch outside my dressing room door, like all those things that I'd always seen and hope to be part of and hearing like a half hour call on the intercom.

I was just like, this is heading in the right direction. Yeah, and now, I think this more pertains to Dear Evan Hansen, but there is a tradition that when other actors come see a musical or a play on Broadway, I assume they have to have some level of status to get over this barrier of entry. But it's tradition that they will come backstage after the show, right? So whenever I've been with Kristen, because she eat, breeze, sleeps, Broadway, she knows all the traditions.

She's like, well, we've got to go backstage. In my mind, I'm like, this person just put on a show for two hours, an exhausting show. The last thing I would want to do is have to have small talk with people I don't know. Please tell me what your thoughts are on that tradition.

Well, the lion's share of my experience with that tradition is Evan Hansen. And I would say in that particular scenario, it was an incredibly draining show to do and really exhausting and difficult to keep recreating. And so to me, it was like a beautiful relief to have people get affected by it every time they want to come back and share that because usually people at the end of Evan Hansen are very emotionally raw and very vulnerable and they want to just sort of hug and tell you their life story. And I think like that was very motivating and sort of helps to separate the shows when they're running together and you're doing it like hundreds and hundreds of times.

Yeah. So I always really appreciate it. I would say if the show that you saw didn't really move you or you didn't really care for it that much, then I don't think you need to feel like a service of coming back and like pretending that you did. Well, let me ask you this.

Did they ever come into like P.S. Tom Hanks as an audience? Yes. Well, when I was at Evan Hansen, I got a list every night before the show of all the people that were there.

Oh, wow. Quite a, you know, thing to see. Yeah, especially within the industry. Exactly.

My character spends a lot of time looking out at the audience and I would naturally spot people and I did not want to come upon people that didn't know where they were. Like if Meryl was in the crowd. Uh-huh I didn't want that. You take you out of your rhythm.

My cast did not agree. So I would get my own list and just know this is here and then expect that those people come back. But we have, you know, Beyonce and Hillary Clinton and a lot of heroes. And did Queen P come backstage?

She did. Wow. She did. There's a lot of evidence.

Oh, my goodness. So, yeah. So people come back and they're like, oh, great show. And you're like, how do you take compliments?

I'm horrible at it. I look around and like hold my hands. And it's a hard balancing act. I mean, by a few months in, I was sort of like, okay, yes, I like what I'm doing in the show.

I'm happy to say that. For me, I would rather a long, satisfying hug than like a deep conversation about how much you love it. Yes. It's just hard to respond to that kind of feedback.

I know it's sad, right? It's stay tuned for more. I'm sure. If you dare.

So Queen B came back. Was there anyone that came to that show that you were just a diehard fan of growing up? I was number one. She's like, I freak out for her.

I got a haircut that day. I did an extra voice lesson. Oh, wow. But other than that, Manny Patinkin, my favorite musical of all time is called Sunday Park with George.

And he was the original George in that. I used to watch the PBS taping of that all the time. And he's very much my idol, very much an inspiration to why I wanted to do musical theater in the first place. So for people that aren't super into theater again, Manny Patinkin probably most famously was in Princess Bride.

Yes. And then Homeland. Oh, yeah. And then Homeland.

Yeah. So when I started watching Homeland with Kristen, I was like, oh, it's the guy from Princess Bride. No, what? No, that is Manny Patink Yeah.

And he was the original Che Guevara and Evita. He's like a rampant of Broadway. Exactly. He's a musical theater legend for sure.

Right. So yeah, I was just very floored by that. What was it about his stage persona that you like so much? There's not a lot of roles in musical theater where men are given the opportunity to be vulnerable.

I think that there's a lot of like very gravitas-filled leading men in a lot of roles that have, for women that have a bit more like emotional complexity, which is another reason musical theater is an amazing place, because I think they've always been way ahead of the game as far as portraying women. But I think when I saw him, there was such a complexity and a sadness and like a real, like fully formed human to his performance where I was like, oh, the fact that this is possible in the context of the musical, it's not just like, I'm here to save the day. Exactly. Which there's room for that.

You know, the Shakespeare event. Well, let's call him the Michael Jordan of it. I was giving actors like tons of complexity to work with. And I think I was just really moved by that.

And also by the piece in general, because it's sort of in a medicine, it's very much about what you sacrifice to be an artist and what you give up to love what you do and to always live somewhat in your mind in what you're doing. Let a piece of you always be taken by that. And how does that affect your relationships? I think from a very young age, I knew that it was going to be a big part of my life.

And so I think I always was conscious of that. And so when you meet Mandy, what's your approach? Because you want him to love you, right? You want him to say, you're the next me and I love you.

Yeah. We had this thing called the quote unquote blue room, because blue was like the color of Evan Hansen. Basically just agreed where people would come and meet and all the cast couldn find their way there after we've taken off our makeup and stuff. I went there and he was gonna be there.

There's always a pretty annoyingly large crowd in there after the show. And he was really quiet. And I went over to him and I didn't really say anything. And I was getting very nervous.

He hated it. He hated it so much. And then like four or five minutes later, he passed me and said, do you mind if we go somewhere private? He's like, um, wherever you want.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll go to the sunken place. So he went to my dressing room. And he just was like, you know, I'm floored by what you did.

And I'd like to follow whatever you do after this. And oh, wow, really, really, very pitch. I wrote a lot of journaling that evening. It was really everything I hope for him.

They really think Kristen Bell. I don't know that I met her when she came back. Oh, really? I don't think so.

She might have taken the weird approach that Monica and I stand by, which is we ignore the people we love and hope that they'll eventually come down. I'm too scared. I sometimes don't approach. Like I saw Hunter Schaefer on the street.

Did you watch before? Yeah, on HBO? She's like this unbelievably gorgeous, brilliant trans actress. And I just love her on the show so much.

And I saw her on the street. And I was like, I'm gonna go up and say something. And I was like, you know what? I'm too afraid I can't.

And also maybe she'll think it's cooler if I don't. Yeah. But I saw her again and I did take something. I mean, I always take it to her miss.

I personally, there are versions of it. I'm sure you get the two versions of being recognized and bothered that are great and versions that are like soul crushing. So I always want to live in the first category. Also, there's a difference between coming up and trying to explain that you've been moved by something or something that's affected your life and just coming up and like really wanting that pick for you.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is my favorites are the ones that come up and just want to chat. And that's the end of it. That's what I would say.

I'd way rather talk to you for three minutes than take a 30 second picture with you. Without saying name. We're not going to say names. Okay.

Can you think of the weirdest thing someone that was famous came backstage and said you would? Okay, good. Okay, good. 100%.

I won't name her name. She said to me, she came backstage, she liked the show, she was crying. And then she asked me, you know, what do you do to decompress afterwards? And I was like, oh, I go home and I order seamless and I watch Parks and Rec and Funnie and Light and just get back in the group.

And she's like, yeah, I know, like after I work sometimes when I'm in a hotel, I'll just order a bunch of chicken wings. And I really love to leave the bones of the chicken wings under the bed for me to try to freak her out. Oh, no. What?

Oh, that's very nice to meet you. And then I shit in the pillowcase and just really tear the place out. I wonder if when she slides those chicken wings under the bed, like she feels a sense of decompression and relief and she just falls into a quick slumber. But again, a tradition like that to put chicken wings under the bed of a hotel room.

How does that even develop? Like, did she like one time she left them just at the end of the bed? She's like, I feel a little bit better just having the chicken wings there. And then it progressed.

They spill one time. Did she knock the plate off the bed and then kick them under the bed and then check the best night of her sleep? Like, well, how on earth did she come up with that? I got the hell out of there as soon as the bones were brought up.

And do you think in any way growing up around people helped you keep that experience somewhat right sized? Yes, I'm sure. Yeah. Because I had like, you know, because Lili Landa's like recent, her family were coming over for the Shabbat when I was nine and ten.

Right. They always felt like normal human beings to me rather than these like, I mean, people like Beyonce will always be, you know, as she should in the room she enters. But generally it allowed me more comfortability of trying to just like person to person connected to people. Yeah, because the dangerous thing for me has been, so I grew up, you know, worshiping Burt Reynolds, smoking the band is my favorite movie.

I do a movie with him when I'm 29 and he comes to like me a lot, invites me to lunch and stuff at his house. And while that's happening, I feel spectacular. But then the next morning when I wake up, I'm still seeing the exact same version of myself that I've assessed to be good or bad or, you know, lacking in some way. Like it just doesn't have any residual effect for me.

Right. As much as I want it to. Like you want to hear like if Beyonce loves you, you should feel fantastic the remaining days of your life. That's true.

It doesn't really have that potency, does it? No, I mean, Evan Hansen was a very particular experience because I was like, really working myself to the bone doing it. And like, I kind of put the volume down on everything else around me in life just to be doing it. So I felt like that made me feel the feeling of accomplishment, like I'm doing what I can.

It's a successful thing more so than the people that I admire saying like, right. So let's get right into your Evan Hansen. So this, you started basically in 2014, right? You start, you're a part of workshops and table reads.

Tell me how early you entered that process. So the first kind of beat of it is that I was 17 before any of this. And I auditioned for Dogfight, which was the musical that Pastor Paul wrote before. And I was like, why would I not give this a shot?

So I went in and I sang this very esoteric musical theater song and went really well. Of course, we didn't get it. I got a Facebook message from Benj and Pasek, who's the lyricist of the show. And he said, we love to audition.

We think you're great. We would love to work with you in the future. We have this thing down the pipe that's like, we're interested in like, stay tuned. And I was like, that's really nice, but there's no way in hell.

Like there's no way. And so I didn't hear anything for a while. Then when I was in Book of Mormon, both of them reached out to me and they're like, can we come see you in the show? And they did.

And after the show, I was talking to them and they're like well, we have our first reading of this piece and we'd love for you to come and do like a cold read to see how the fit is like. And I was like, oh, great. What's the battle? What's the character?

Nobody would tell me anything. They don't want me to have any information. For all I knew I was like playing like a Southern, like a drug addict. White nationalist.

I was like, I hope I have whatever accent is necessary. And it was the first time they ever opened it up with actors and read it. And so we went in a room and we had like a three day, very short first reading. And I think just immediately there was a real synergy between me and the character and also just the rhythm of Steven Levinson's writing, who's the book writer of the piece.

And then progressively over the course of the next two years, every month or so, we'd have a slightly more involved reading. Whether that was a little bit more of a cast or now we stand with music stands and perform for a few people. And now we do like a little blocking. And then we did a production in Washington, D.C.

to give it a shot. And then we did a production off Broadway. Yeah. So throughout the process, do you have any anxiety?

Like, oh, God, they're using me to kind of shape this thing. And then who knows, they'll recast me. Or did they early on promise you like, oh, well, we're gonna do all this with you. Was there any part of that felt like?

extended audition for it as soon as we got to the dc workshop and the dc show or at least i was like contracted to no matter where it moves from here forward i'm doing it i think the first reading certainly felt like one big audition for everyone but i think it was just really apparent to me and everyone that it was a perfect match i didn't really feel any kind of fear about that and also the writing kept shaping around me and around my interpretation of the character and focusing in more and more structurally on evan and also sort of literally comedically on me so i'm playing to your strengths yes i could feel i was becoming like a part of the fabric of the piece and i didn't feel worried about well that was gonna be a question i asked because you were young how old were you then 21 uh yeah like 21 okay so how comfortable were you at that point being vocal about what direction it was all taking by like year two by like the fourth or fifth round of workshops and reading stuff i did feel that i had like a voice and i mean i wasn't on the creative team necessarily so at a certain point you have to take changes and do what you will but i felt very heard and respected i also think that they knew that i had a very particular understanding of the character in a way that no one else did because i'm the only person to ever inhabit him and felt that i understood what would feel honest coming out of his mouth so if i ever had like a real glaring issue they would listen which i really appreciated a lot and made me want to only do projects after that where i felt like i had a seat at the table as far as a collaborator and i always wondered if in theater because there's so often these plays already been done before the text is the fucking text it's now biblical you know what latitude actors have i think more when you're creating a piece from scratch because i mean when you're replacing something there's nothing you're doing what you gotta do but when you're creating a new piece particularly one that's not based on any other previous material you really have a voice i think particularly in this situation there's only eight actors there's no big ensemble there's no dance numbers it's just eight characters yeah and so i think they would really hear us out as far as like this doesn't feel honest or this feels over rocked or this feels separate yes and to you know to a degree at a certain point it's like they have to look at the piece as a whole and you might lose some monologue you really love because it doesn't work in the rhythm of the show but i think the best stuff and part of the reason that Evan Hansen turned out so well and felt and feels so authentic is that it was built around particular human beings because by like the third workshop so we had seven of the eight of us in it and we have been in it the whole time right so we really built it for and around us and it's a super emotional play right as my wife has explained it to me she's like i don't know how he can cry and sing the way he does because you're basically not supposed to be able to do both at the same time like she'll even point out when we're watching like award shows where someone will be singing one of their songs but they got emotional just because of the moment of it and then your voice stops working in the way it becomes unpredictable a bit right so how did you navigate that it became like a muscle memory thing by the end a lot with my voice teacher named Liz Kaplan who i still work with all the time on any music stuff and on my tour just yeah i think it's i mean like a very graphic literal sense it's all about like when do you drain the mucus that's created by the crying and finding the times to do that so it doesn't get in the way of the sound you're making yeah stuff like that but like theoretically when you cry and you're everything is raining you're creating all this like resonating space up in your passages okay so it's actually not a terrible time to sing high about these songs when you describe because there's all this cleared out right so what i don't know that everyone recognizes is the schedule i would never do it i just would never do it not for a billion dollars so yeah i mean you gotta have this it's like an olympic dream sacrifice all things for this one single moment one million percent you're living in service of the two hours each night your whole day is about those two hours right and your whole week is because you do what eight shows a week eight shows a week tuesday two wednesday thursday friday two saturday sunday you have mondays off uh so in let's say my friend sean hayes was in a musical i should have said i like that one too yes it was fucking yes charismatic and cute and i loved it um but you know i hung out with him a couple of times while he was doing that a he was a human zombie i mean he just had zero energy when he wasn't doing that and then just protecting his voice at all times which i would find as a blabbermouth would be the hardest part i have to like put my fucking personality in a vault for a year exactly that's why it's not really a sustainable thing to do always which is why i've been really happy to be able to put my foot into the pool of film tv and virtual music and other things it just takes over your whole life and you can't you know you have to sleep a certain amount take supplements and physical therapy and voice lessons and your diet changes and you can't go out and you can't drink and you can't is there a team of people helping you do all that stuff yes i had a physical therapist a voice teacher i had like a nutritionist i had an ent on call at all times to help with like oh i feel like i have a sinus infection let's get an antibiotic yeah you must be living in a constant panic that you'll get sick i'm a hypochondriacal like anxious person all the time that's one of my biggest sort of hurdles so it was exacerbated by like every morning just like you know first thing you do when you wake up is just like am i feeling anything does it sound good and so like the morning after i had to finish to wake up and like hear that my voice was shot and be like oh i don't give a fuck oh yeah that's got to be so liberating so i'd love to do a straight play because it's like you get all the joy of that experience and like the theater and doing show and having a live gratification but then you can go have a drink and scream it doesn't matter because he's talking right and now what is the nutritionist doing like no dairy is he no gluten no acids how long before the show should i eat like how long before bed is it okay to eat like oh and what kind did you develop any habits that you were able to take on into your yeah i didn't really eat dairy anymore at all okay just was creating so much mucus and i also just found like as a jew my stomach was happy without it right and try to avoid it whenever possible okay but i brought everything else back i mean i couldn't say goodbye to like tomato sauce forever right right that's hard did you find it interesting because you saw it right i saw kristen sent me to new york to see you i think i think yeah she liked it so much she got home and said monica you're going to new york just to see this yeah and it was maybe like your last week or two weeks it was the very very tail end i got into the tail end yeah i'm not gonna tell you how much you told me we're not supposed to do that but tell me look at me and tell me how much you like okay it was life shattering no it was unbelievable and i did feel like how how can he be doing this every day multiple times a day it was astonishing but when you were developing the character clearly this character has gone through a vastly different high school experience than you but you still felt super connected definitely there was a lot of ways in to him for me he's a very anxious person i'm very anxious person i think a lot of trouble connecting which obviously on the surface i do not given that i'm performing all the time but i do feel like outside the realm of performing and acting and seeing my own music i do have trouble sort of opening up to people so i can very much relate to that and then as far as like him as a particular kid i definitely drew on like kids that i knew from high school yeah who had a similar energy and similar walk-in wore like sad gray new balance shoes sure yeah kind of stuff but i had definitely ways in also the sort of best and worst part of a musical is that you get to sing so much because like obviously we're saying that affects your life very much but also in any other art form there it gives you like a different window into the soul of the character like the way that character sounds and sings is like another dimension to them yeah like it's like the way that he sounded was like kind of the last layer of the cake of like knowing who he was cool and just because we've talked a bit on here to the boredom of the listeners who aren't actors um the different ways to get into being emotional while working and some people work physically in right there's some people that will just start mimicking crying and then the physical cues of that will actually elicit the real emotional response or you can work backwards and trying to get emotionally first so was some of it helpful that like the structure was there and the muscle memory was there and then singing and this part of the song is emotional and did it work that way for you for sure i have to be emotional a few times in the politician and the tv show that i just made and that was for me a lot more challenging because you're just picking up in the middle of a given day and having to place yourself in the middle of a story in a particular spot when you're done you could have just done the birthday scene exactly seen before 15 minutes later walking down the hall like talking and making jokes and then the next day was like me stopping my mom like walking away from me for moments like that it's a lot more for me like listening to music and like getting myself in a headspace but the luxury of a musical or any piece of theater that you're living in chronology and you get to go through the journey in your body gets used to like the peaks and valleys of that you're telling the story in sequence exactly so like both my mind and my muscles knew exactly where in the story we were at all times and on top of that you have the luxury of like a very beautiful string section playing emotional music and bringing things well the audience is probably reflecting the emotion that for sure also because i would you know in that very sort of emotional section of the show i'm looking at a family that's finding out this horrible truth that i'm having to tell them so i'm watching this mother and father and this girl that i'm seeing in the show i'll you know completely break down because of what i've done so that helps too there's all sorts of layers i mean any given day you have to hang on house or in the zone you are sort of how dropped into the story where you have to pull a little bit more on like personal things or a little bit more on muscle feelings i think it kind of varies day by day but generally it became like clockwork how many performances you end up doing between the three productions combined 700 some oh jesus christ i'm gonna be crude i don't want to get 706 blowjobs from a hot person there's nothing i want to do 706 times there's a lot of times where there rides back to your apartment where you're like well i'm glad queen b wasn't at that one of course there are times i feel like that was a piece of shit and i hated that but when you're doing something that many times like the smallest variation so you can feel like earth shattering yeah oh that left and land or like that there wasn't as much of a pin drop silence in that moment you're just like oh it sucked yeah and the other person coming and seeing it for the first time i have nothing to prepare this was great yeah you probably can't help but start comparing every audience the very best one that you ever had million percent i would imagine if you're doing the show on a day that the stock market crashed you know x y or z things happening in the zeitgeist then obviously people bring that into the theater with them don't they certainly i mean even if it's raining outside or like right everything is affecting it's a matinee in the afternoon and like the energy is always but that's also the nice thing about theaters that it's like malleable and changing and does that help prevent with boredom because did you get bored for sure and with that piece of work there's just like too much to do and too much to bite off it was more so like i don't want to do this today it was like how do i get myself up the hill today what was the hardest snafu that happened in these 700 shows to overcome i'll tell you right now one of the worst moments of my whole life we were in dc it was opening night in dc and the new york times critic was there first time we're being reviewed and you know if new york times review makes a break whether we're coming from here okay show it's going really well we get to the scene where there's this big dinner scene like in the middle of that one where the show really kind of takes off and like sets in motion it's where and starts to lie to the family and it's this big song and the whole show takes place on these discs that fly in and out and the disc is coming out for the dinner and it like shutter steps and then breaks and like a bunch of cups fall in water and we have the stage manager comes over we have to walk off stage wait for them to reset i was literally like banging walk the theater right it was awful where you have to be like no more moving fucking pieces let's get this fucking thing yeah i mean i mean my very limited experience with just doing sketch comedy on stage i lived for when some fucking calamity happened because now everyone's got to like truly improvise and pull this thing off again the role you had maybe didn't allow for this but i've certainly been in the middle of a sketch that i've done a hundred times where i'm like fuck i didn't put money in the meter i wonder if i can run out there but you know i'll actually be thinking about something else while saying my lines there's there's always a danger of getting on autopilot and the few times i've ever had like a flub or like i've gone blank it's because i've been autopilot and then suddenly come back to where i was like wait a minute what did i just say what do i say next where like and then there's just a white room for a second you're like oh i've done this a million times what do i can say what do i why is she looking at me like i'm supposed to say something yeah so it's so hard not i mean especially over and over again like your mind especially that second show on the day i would imagine it's like oh god here we go again now when you said you also had a physical therapist what was that person helping you with so evan is super like hunched over and like kind of the opposite of what's healthy posture for singing so she would help me kind of realign twice a week a lot of like cups and acupuncture and like any adjustments cracking at all oh yeah oh wonderful did you love those it felt like a real reset because your body feels like kind of shoveled by the end so it's a nice back to the top now while you're doing that does it take away your interest in going to see stuff no i mean my favorite activity in the world is to see theater i see everything i possibly can what it takes away is the opportunity to see stuff because you can only see things that have a varied schedule from you right like 90 probably shows have the exact same schedule so i could only see things that would have sunday night or that like had like a special like actor's fun performance on a monday night or something i could catch uh-huh so that's the worst part getting to see other things but anytime i'm not in a show i see i try to see every show in the season right and now after the show would you go to these bars where the other actors go no you don't because you got to be on vocal rest yeah like a mormon i used to go out because it wasn't the strength of the part but but not and i would go i wouldn't go to the stage door i would sneak out the lobby right in the car and go were you in a relationship during that no i mean i dated around but no nothing there's no room for like because you can't right yeah unless i had already been in one and that was established there's no room if you did have a partner it'd be someone with such low self-esteem that they were happy with the fucking leftovers of you and that really wouldn't be an equal partner i mean yeah that's always been the biggest challenge i mean that's kind of the most intense version of my experience with that but always i think it's probably the hardest thing to find people that are okay with the fact that like i put the work and like the investment in that in the same realm as like spending time with people that i love like see my family right right it's that's like a piece of the brain that people have no relation to the arts can't really understand yes but you always just pick the human beings like certainly at the end of the day yes but there are times when to make myself a happy person you can invest in when i do it yeah and i don't necessarily think it's so unique to this profession there's lawyers that like yeah so and i bet this is where you have the perfect dad for this i would guess because perfect for most things well yeah you're young and you're at 25 you probably should just be singularly focused on climbing whatever mountain but do you feel the lack of roots in your life does that ever come to bear on you do you have periods where you're like oh my god that's great and fulfilling but now that i'm here sitting still i'm like i don't know what the fuck i am yes and no yes as far as like i don't love that i've chosen this profession where like the longest i've ever known what's gonna happen is like a year in advance i just don't know what life looks like anywhere past that so that scares me a lot i think the nice thing about my family is that they're all here in la and they're all together it's a very grounding thing to know that they're all here and that helps me feel like i do have anything where to get upended or something horrible you know i always have that as like a home base and i'm also very blessed in that being in our group from our west like our best friends is all in new york together and we've really stayed sort of very close and had each other's back and we are each other's sort of community yeah in all the ups and downs and everybody's on their own paths yeah that's really nice and it's also lucky that it happens to be mostly other artists and i mean a lot of actors a couple directors and playwrights so you're all understanding of each other's lack of attention at times exactly as a lack of attention we're all saying like in any given month someone can be riding high and someone can be like questioning whether they want to do this like yeah we've been in all places stay tuned for more armchair if you dare have you considered again i think you're too young still for this i don't want you to consider this but have you thought wow at what age will i maybe pick someone over the work no i more so have thought about when will i choose the children over the work right i mean i would obviously like anyone like to find my companion but i also think even more so than that i definitely like to have some children so i think if it gets to a certain point i just would make room for that yeah but i'd also like to still believe in my rose-colored glasses 25 year old mind that like whoever i find if they are the right person they'll be on board for a year of me being around 20 percent and a year of me being completely out of sight like i think uh-huh hopefully that person would understand yeah i'm a little worried that that person has doesn't have their own life i just i disagree with you because it's like you and motorcycles like kristen is gonna let you go do that because it's part of your identity who he is is that that would be removing him from yes but you did just compare three weekends a year to a whole year yeah i know i just mean whoever his person is is gonna have to get on board with that because i think that other person's also gonna have to have a brother play running at the exact same time so that neither of you want to be bothered well yes or at least definitely have something that they're equally passionate about because i don't think i'd ever be deeply attracted to someone that didn't have something well that's kind of what i'm getting at is like someone who can just go along for that ride right that's a uniquely hard dynamic i think because you want an equal and an equal generally isn't going to be like yeah cool so i'll be with you this year and that next year and the year after and you know they're going to have their own life too yeah well there's kids there i think that they're allowed to hold me accountable that's for sure but i think they should also understand the way that you pointed out it's like but even now in the next couple years of like this is the time to invest in this kind of thing and be as selfish as possible yes i think you're doing absolutely right so for dear evan hansen you won a tone you won 2017 best actor in a musical how did you take that i grabbed it from tfa okay that's great all i wanted to know is just the actual logistics of taking possession of it nobody were you able to go like i deserve this i did feel earned in the sense that i felt like i really gave my all and sacrificed a lot to do it yes deserve is hard because awards are so arbitrary and there's so much politics involved I've seen products of my father's that not happened for reasons completely irrelevant. So it's like, I think more so than caring about getting the word, I cared that the community felt that it would have been crazy if I didn't. You know what I mean? Yes.

If they would have been like, what the hell, why not? That made me feel great. It's like, everybody understands that I care a lot about this and that this was a good match of character to me and that this was the right moment. So then the winning, it was just like, cherry.

Yeah. And now I assume that it's still going on, that musical and it's been recast. Many times. Yeah.

Many times. I think they're on their fourth album. And have you gone to see any of them? Well, both of the two immediate successors were two very close friends of mine, Noah on a Sunday.