Did Don Draper really buy the world of Coke? Did Tony Soprano really die or just order more onion rings? Were those guys really in hell the whole time or was that just the audience? The finales of our favorite shows can make us argue, make us cry, and make us crazy.
From Spotify and The Ringer, I'm Andy Greenwald, and this is Stick the Landing, a new podcast where we'll be telling the story of modern TV backwards, one fade out at a time. Each episode, a guest and I will choose a celebrated series from history, from the 70s to the streaming era and beyond, and do a deep dive on its very last episode. Was it all a dream? Did it turn into a nightmare?
And, most importantly, hopefully learn about tomorrow's new shows from the way yesterday's ended. TV is a journey. I hope you'll enjoy this podcast about the destination. Starting January 17th, find Stick the Landing on Wednesdays on the Prestige TV feed, on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm John Fennessey. I'm Evan Fennessey. And this is the Big Picture Conversation Show about poor things. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Julianne Moore and Todd Haynes, the star and director of one of my favorite films of 2023, May, December.
Absolute pleasure to talk to you. I'm jealous of this one. Todd is a four-time guest on the show. This is Julianne Moore's first appearance.
They brought it. They were really fun and smart, as you expect them to be. Has Julianne Moore been on a lot of podcasts? I honestly don't know, but she was freaking good, man.
Yeah, she should be on Moore, I feel like. She's Julianne Moore. Yeah, very charming, very smart. I thought she had good answers for an actor.
You know what I mean when I say that? This is another thing. I didn't want to ask Julia Roberts this directly, but has Julia Roberts been on a lot of podcasts? I do feel like we are breaking the space with legendary actresses over 50.
Well, I agree with you. Thank you. I've been making an effort. Honestly, we've had Julie Louise breakfast this year.
Well, she has her own really good podcast. Yes, and you can tell when we spoke. I'm talking about it's not really their traditional media space. Julia Roberts is now on the cover of British Vogue, but also she did the Big Picture.
And I don't see them on other podcasts. I would say we are as important as British Vogue in the world of fashion. As we're sitting here dressed exactly the same. What are we wearing?
Shackets, you know? Some shacks on a chilly January. There's nothing about your lovely lightweight jackets. And I like both of them.
Sean, I believe you bought this one with me in Sweden. Bobby, do you want to share the... Oh, is that Dickies? It is Dickies, yeah.
I'm wearing a new Carver pant stick that I learned about from Sofia Popola, if you guys want to... Well, Sofia Popola and then my friend Lauren German, and then me. Should we start every episode describing what we're wearing? I am going to share some behind-the-scenes footage.
Actually, I'm going to share a clip because Sean and Bobby are sitting across from me, both in the studio today. What a delight. Bob, it's great to have you. Nice to be here.
And you guys look really cute. Thank you. Thank you so much. I don't have a good plan.
This is what we spend the entire morning doing. Every morning I wake up and I send a photo of my outfit to Bobby, even though he's in New York, and I say, what do you think about this one? And he says, that's exactly what I would wear. Let's do it.
Okay, that's cute. I like that. All right. Now that we know what we're wearing, let's talk about movies.
As a film we need to discuss today, we're going to have a long conversation about your response to the most poor things. Finally. So all of you can stop tweeting. Please stop tweeting about that.
It's probably the biggest movie of 2023 that we have not yet dedicated in episode 2. Because most people still can't see it. It's still only in 800 theaters. I do think it is expanding more over the next couple of weeks.
More people should check it out. We'll get into it shortly. A lot has happened, though, in the world of movies since we recorded on Sunday after the Golden Globe. So a few things to sort through.
One of the first things that happened was we got word roughly four days after our most anticipated movies episode that my number one most anticipated movie of 2024 has been undated. It's Mickey 17, Bong Joon-ho's film, which was supposed to come out at the end of March, and now is going to come out. What do you think? What do you think it will come out?
Closer to an awards season and or a festival. So here's the thing. So Mickey 17 is being released by Warner Brothers. Obviously, as soon as we got this news, everyone was just like, David Sazak, fuck off.
And let me, you know, from the bottom of my heart, join that chorus generally. A couple of things here. Like, March also always seems like a slightly weird time for Bong Joon-ho, Robert Pattinson, like, mega movie. I agree.
And Warner Brothers also delayed Dune 2 until March 2024. So I honestly think, like, just the moment that they pushed Dune 2 to March 2024, we probably should have been on our thinking cap and been like, okay, they're probably not going to do Dune 2 and Mickey 17 in the same month, just from, like, marketing resources, what have you. Now, there's still the possibility of a ton of corporate fuckery, and that would really suck. And once again, just, like, release Mickey 17.
But if they're delaying it to debut it, it can say, which we know if David Sazak loves. Yeah. And, or if they're doing it for the fall push, they're obviously with a strike also production. You know, who knows?
I think it's like, we want to be careful here. Like, everybody's on watch, you know? Yes, yes. But we don't need to have, like, it doesn't have to be full crisis yet.
Everyone can make the right decision still. I'm trying to keep the lid on this one in that way, for all the reasons that you just cited. There are a variety of reasonable explanations for why this has happened, but there is suspicion because there have been a few movies that have been completely mothballed by Warner Brothers in the last couple of years. There's a sense that, you know, tax write-offs and a concern about, I think in the Bong Joon-ho case, you know, let's be honest, Parasite introduced him to a huge new audience, but he makes really unusual genre movies.
His movies are quite strange. So because of that, I think there's a little bit of concern that there's a feeling that this movie might be too weird. I don't really know. I don't know very much about the movie itself.
I just really would like to see it as soon as possible. If it's going in Cannes, great. If it's going to October so it can compete the Academy Awards, that's great. I'd just like to see it.
Also, I was just going to say, this delay does also allow Robert Pattinson to take some parental leave, which is very exciting for him. I did not even know. Did you know that DMC Waterhouse had a movie? Yeah, it was great.
That's very exciting. And it seems like soon-ish, so maybe he'll get a little time. That's great. Are you working as a doula for their family or what are you going to do?
I think I would be great at that, honestly. Yeah, I have experience. I welcome it. Even though we won't be seeing Make B-17 anytime soon, hopefully we will be seeing a new movie from Paul Thomas Anderson.
Look at you. I'm just trying to stay on the train tracks. And I'm trying to derail you at all times. It is the ethic of this show.
And I'm trying to take care of everyone when we crash. Thank you. You have the medical kit and you're going to build us back up. So Bobby could be the doula.
Do you know what a doula does, Bobby? Not really. In the equation of Bob is a doula. He is taking care of two babies or mom and dad.
Well, the parents. I think doula really is supposed to be there for the mom. So mom and dad. I was making a joke about the environment of this show.
Are we mom and dad or are we babies? Well, that's really TV. Which of the three stars cast in Paul Thomas Anderson's next movie would be most likely to be the doula? Bringing it right back.
Sean Penn. And that's a movie I'd like to see. Paul Thomas Anderson is making a new film for Warner Brothers. He's in that film.
Will appear. Long, long, long rumored collaboration between Leonardo DiCaprio and PTA. PTA wanted Leo for Boogie Nights. He's been wanting Leo in a movie.
In fact, me and Bill Simmons spoke to Paul Thomas Anderson years ago on campaign trail for Phantom Thread about Leo getting one of his movies. Finally, he's in one along with Regina Hall, which is a long rumored, which is wonderful. Which is absolutely huge fans of Regina Hall in the show. And Sean Penn.
Fox and Paris with Kevin Costner still. Yes. Sean Penn also in the movie. He was in Licorice Pizza.
Did fine work as a William Holden-esque Sandin in that movie. Here's what we know about the movie. Contemporary set. This is the first time he's made a movie set in modern times since Punch-Round Club, which is over 20 years ago.
The movie in the writing about the film has been described as his most commercial yet. I've heard this movie has a pretty big budget. Warner Brothers would say that. Well, they kind of have to say that.
You know, the notable thing here is that Michael DeLuca, the executive, who is kind of co-chair of the film division at Warner Brothers, used to run New Line Films and gave PTA his big break with boogie nights. He is the executive who empowered him to make that movie and is well known for taking chances on wild young filmmakers. So in theory, that studio run by that person empowering PTA to take on a bigger project set in contemporary times with the biggest movie star on the planet. I mean, music in my ears.
This is incredibly exciting. The one thing that is interesting about this is that for the close PTA watchers, it has been long rumored that his next film is going to be an adaptation of Thomas Pynchon's Vineland. So Vineland is not set in contemporary times. It's set in the 1980s.
And it's a very unusual book with a lot of outlandish, almost like science fiction elements. So updating Vineland to modern times, perhaps a story a bit about the Reagan era to reflect, what, the Trump era? Like there was also a rumor about four or five months ago that this was going to be a more political film. That would be surprising for PTA who's not really open about those kinds of ideas usually in this film.
They're much more psychological, internal, emotional about guys breaking down. That's what he does. You know, I wonder why I relate to that. So I'm really curious about this.
I'm excited. You're really curious about a Paul Thomas Anderson movie? I don't know. This sounds fantastic.
I'm excited. Even more so than the usual, like Paul Thomas Anderson's making a movie about Scientology. Paul Thomas Anderson's making a movie about Couturier in London at this time. Like this one in particular, we've never really seen anything like this from him before.
So I'm excited. I learned this news from my husband who came into my workspace the minute that it was announced and I was at my computer trying to actually get things done for our family. And he was just like, hey, PTA, make a movie. And he was in it.
And I was like, uh-huh, uh-huh. And he's like, Regina Hall, too. I just kept talking. And I was like, get out of my...
I'm working. Leave. I will talk to you about PTA planning in the coming months. I think a little bit of psychological insight into this show is that sometimes some of your...
What I'll describe as general hostility towards me is because you're getting a lot of at home as well. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I understand. I accept.
Yeah. But nevertheless, a new PTA movie is a holiday on this podcast. So we will probably close to track the production and releases of this movie. So the other thing that's going on is that Academy voting is starting today on January 11th.
Because of that, a lot of the guilds got their nominations out early in the aftermath of the Golden Clothes is leading the pack. Leading the pack? Yeah. What is our pick for animated film?
Nimona? Oh, yes. Right. Your team's pick.
Yeah, our team's pick. Yes. Nine nominations for Nimona. Sure.
The Netflix film that you have not seen and will never see. No, I'm going to see it. Oh, will you? Yeah, also, I forgot to tell you I saw Boy and Heron.
Wow. What? I do my job. Burying the lead.
I saw Boy and Heron. What? In a theater? I do my job.
Yeah. Oh, my God. In a theater. I like the grannies a lot.
Okay, yeah. Yeah, it was beautiful. What did you think of the Heron's teeth? Those were gross.
But beautiful to look at. I don't know. I get it, but also it's not for me. But I love you guys.
Is it the first one you've seen? I think so. It's probably the worst one to start with. I agree.
Okay. It's a... Well... I think I may have said this on the show when we talked about it, but I think if you watch like two or three beforehand and then watch it, you'll see that there's like a synthesis going on.
You keep moving the both of us for me. You know? I try it. You're discovering great art anew.
I don't know. I'm seeing it. Okay, okay. Yeah, that's too bad.
Well, that's a wonderful film. That is the leader in the clubhouse for the Academy Award. I thought the annies were kind of interesting because one thing that's never happened before in the history of that body, which is that both the Disney Animation Studios film and the Pixar film missed out on Best Feature. Wish and Elemental were not nominated for an annie this year.
I think the nominees I'm just going to stop my head here are Nimona, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, The Boy in the Heron, Suzume, and what was the fifth one? I'm opening it right now. Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse. Of course, Across the Spider-Verse.
Seems three out of five. Pretty good. Pretty good for you. Is that an all-time high?
I honestly don't remember the annie nominees of any past year. I usually see most of them by the time the Oscars roll around. You've seen Ninja Turtles. It was sick.
That was great. I also went by myself. I have to go by myself to all of these. In the future, we'll go to one together.
And then you can see my joy. We saw Spider-Verse. Yeah, that was nice. You were really, really happy.
That was a great day. You know, these nominations are interesting because it's obviously been a very troubled year for Disney, 2023, and this is one small little reflection of some of the challenges, some of the creative challenges, some of the corporate challenges that they're facing. I would be really surprised if Elemental was not nominated at the Academy Awards because Pixar's brand is so strong with the Academy. But if it misses in the animation, that's going to be kind of an earthquake moment for like, what are they doing?
And they need to rip it up and start again. I will say that Wish is going strong in my household. Oh, yeah. Every day, and I'm watching my daughter develop a relationship with kind of like, you know, an imaginary friend that is Asha, the protagonist from Wish, where she's like, I'm going to go sit and have breakfast with Asha, which is like an amazing thing that I'm witnessing happening.
And you know, for some kids, it's with Cinderella, and for some kids, it's with, you know, characters from One or Frozen. For Max, it's Snoopy. Snoopy too, very powerful. Yeah, Snoopy likes to dance to the Neckracker in our house.
The Snoopy from Maestro. Yeah, from Netflix. Let me thank you so much, Netflix, for that. Again, that Snoopy really just animated.
I did actually try to teach Knox with a vestibule this morning, but he just like stared at me. That's a lot of syllables. I know, and I actually was like, can you say who left Snoopy in the vestibule? And he was just like, and then he hit the Neckracker book button again.
Yes. Anyway, thank you, Max, you really made a lot of money. Give it six months. Knox will be there.
Who left Snoopy in the vestibule? Okay, in addition to the Annie's, we saw the DGAs. Yeah, I would say we're pretty chalky. Well, yeah.
We can talk about Maestro. The nominees for the DGA were Greta Gerwig for Barbie, Yorgos Lantz, the Most of the Four Things, Christopher Nolan for Oppenheimer, Alexander Payne for The Holdovers, and The Great Morton Scores, Stacey for Killers of the Fire Moon. Yeah. So I think this is pretty close to where we're going, and this is a pretty uncontroversial list, but historically, this being the director's guild of America, usually one nominee ends up getting swapped out here for an international filmmaker.
Right. I think the speculation is that this feels like a spot for Jonathan Glaser, maybe a spot for Justin Triez, maybe a spot for Celine Song. It's hard to tell if this is going to be it, but notably missing from this issue. Bradley Cooper.
Yeah. So do you think Bradley Cooper is not competing anymore for Best Director? Probably not, which I know is really tough for him, but it just, it does seem like things are going downhill fast for Maestro and its awards chances. And I feel terrible.
You feel terrible? For him, yeah. I just think that this continues to be one of the most fascinating psychological experiments that we've ever witnessed on the mid-stage. Chris was in here earlier giving me updates on the latest Bradley Cooper crying on a video with a major director in this case, Guillermo del Toro.
Important that he learned crane technique from Guillermo del Toro. Yeah, and it's just... Executed magnificently on the town sequence in Maestro. Yeah, it was wonderful.
Thank God for Guillermo del Toro. It's amazing. Meanwhile, he's buying a farm near Gigi Hadid in Pennsylvania. He's out still serving cheesecakes.
I don't know if he's near Gigi Hadid. She also owns a farm in Pennsylvania. Yeah, she does, yeah, for many years now, and that's where she spent the pandemic. What?
A farm in Pennsylvania? In like Amish country? I don't know the exact location. They should remake witness again.
Oh my God, they should. Yeah, it's tough. Also, the Eagles, that's just a disaster. I'm watching on Monday.
I will not, because I will have to be in charge of childcare while my husband has a breakdown. I tried to broker me joining the Philly Bros to watch the game on Monday with Eileen yesterday. Didn't go well. She did not think that was a good idea.
We're going to go out to dinner if you guys want to come. No, not me, not with the Philly Bros. You would not. Maybe you guys go out to dinner with Eileen and Allison and I'll join the Philly Bros.
I'm rooting for them this year. I have their back. Okay, let's talk about SAG. This is the biggest of the nominations from the guilds that we've seen.
I want to talk about specifically the nominations and also what SAG is now a little bit with you because I feel like it's changed a little bit and maybe not for the best, but we can talk through that. So, big misses we can talk about here. One, Past Lives, Anatomy of Fall, Priscilla, The Iron Claw, and The Zone of Interest, which just so happened to be five films from the Super Boutique Studios, one from Neon and four from May 24, not represented at all here, which I think signals that for all of these films that they're in a tough spot. Anatomy of Fall is in the best spot of these films right now in part because of its gloves wins and the critical acclaim that it's received.
These are critic films. These are not films that actors love as much, clearly, which I find interesting. Some of them are international as well, and that's also a factor when you've got an American guild-body voting. Though people have asked, for example, one of the big snubs is Sandra Holder.
She is a SAG member, as I understand it. She just is also a European actress. You can be a European actor and have SAG card, of course. But she was quote-unquote doubly snubbed because she was not nominated for Anatomy of Fall, and she was also not nominated for The Zone of Interest, and notably Penelope Cruz was nominated in her spot.
Now, Penelope Cruz is in Ferrari, which is an Italian-based film made by Michael Mann, the most American of directors. But Penelope Cruz is also a more well-known in a European actress. But giving an English performance. The Penelope Cruz nomination was actually the most exciting.
It was one I was not expecting. It's one that had been, I think she's been largely overlooked throughout this award season thus far. I said it on the show and we talked about it. I think she's amazing in that movie.
I completely agree. It's a part that is usually really bad in movies like that. You hate that woman or you're frustrated with her. It's underwritten.
She plays it beautifully. She's obviously a tremendous actress. I would be happy if she was represented at the Oscars there. She's obviously one of the greats.
She's won before. Aside from that, there were some head scratchers, I would say. Especially, you know, we've got Julianne Moore talking on the pod today. We recorded this before this act came out, but Charles Melton, not nominated.
In fact, Natalie Portman and Julianne Moore were not nominated. Can I pause the theory? This is a movie that is very mean about actors. Yeah, I mean, this has been the immediate conventionalism from everyone.
I think it's true. It's a funny joke. Is it real? I do think there's some truth to it in that I bet a lot of actors watched this and didn't get it or didn't get the appeal of it.
And I don't mean that they're too simple to understand it. That's not what I'm saying, but it's probably harder to connect to what this movie is indicting if you do it every day. Maybe you're not offended, but maybe you're just like, what is this movie? I think it's a head scratcher for a lot of people.
I actually talked about specifically some of the satirization of actors with Julianne and Todd. But it's notable because it's still considered a best picture contender. You talked about the Melton Wave on Sunday when we talked about the Globes and how maybe that's kind of dying out a little bit. Nevertheless, that's a really good movie.
Can I tell you why he's not dying out? Is Charles Melton showing up to awards ceremonies and parties looking unreal? Handsome fellow. Handsome fellow.
Also, the stylist has it on lock. He's really just like a lot of Clark Gable. He's a classical old school movie star. Really, really handsome guy who knows how to pose with a camera.
So that's exciting to see. I think he's going to be a big deal for a long time. So I'm not so worried about his awards prospects. I kind of think the Golden Globe nominations might have been better than the SAG nominations.
Yeah, they have more categories. We should have more categories. We should give out more awards. I'm generally for that.
I just think it's weird when you're like, you know what? Leonardo DiCaprio. No, thank you. What happened there?
I don't know. That one's really weird. I mean, historically, it took a forever to win an Oscar. I don't know.
Other actors, I don't get it. He has like the... Was he nominated for Titanic? That is true.
That is true. But he has, as I mentioned the other night, he has 14 Golden Globe nominations. Like he is one of the more recognized actors of his time. So...
I super don't get that. It's very confusing. I also thought Mark Ruffalo, who we will talk about a bit at length when we get into Four Things, being snubbed is also bizarre. Another case where I'm like, a supporting performance is critical to the movie that it is supporting.
Well, it's also very weird that Willem Dafoe, who's also wonderful in Four Things, was nominated. And Ruffalo wasn't. And I would argue Willem Dafoe, who's always great, is doing something similar to what we've seen him do before. Yeah.
Whereas Ruffalo is doing something I'm not sure I've ever seen him do. Like a broadly comic period piece performance. Whereas Willem Dafoe's playing a craggy, monstrous, confused, you know, like the light has the shadow of the vampire. That's what that character is.
Anyway, we'll get into that movie very shortly. No Greta Lee and no Sandra Hallers we mentioned in Best Actors, which is really a shame. No Andrew Scott for all those strangers. Which I'm still rooting for.
I still would like to see how it is. It's still, not everyone's seen it. It's not completely, it's not a wide release yet. It's moving.
He has also just been out on the award circuit, seemingly having a wonderful time. Just like in the best way. He was like in every photo from the W performance issue party. Oh yeah.
Like literally just like, and then, oh look, it's interesting. Having an amazing time, looking great. He's wonderful in that movie, which I hope people get a chance to see. So if all those people missed, that means a few people we weren't expecting made it.
But I think the big winner of these nominations for SAG was American Fiction, which didn't win any award that the Golden Globes was basically unheard from. And got three nominations from SAG, including Best Actor, Best Supporting Actor, and Best Ensemble. Best Supporting Actor was a surprise seeing Sterling K. Brown, one of your favorite performances.
He was wonderful. So that's just like a nice thing. I completely agree. My thoughts on this are I would prefer to see Dafoe go out, Ruffalo stay in, and Sterling K.
Brown also get recognized because he's so funny. And so they're actually very similar to the role that they play in the movies that they're in, Sterling and Ruffalo. Like they're comic relief, but they're also like a critical emotional turning point for the lead character. Like they force a realization upon the character.
The other thing is that The Color Purple was nominated in Ensemble. I would say 10 years ago, if you looked at this, you'd say, this probably means it's competing for Best Picture. There's now usually a movie that like Babylon was nominated for Best Ensemble last year and had basically no chance to get recognized in the big awards of the Academy, which is of course a crime. And the Academy should all be imprisoned.
We're looking into it. We're still pursuing all of our legal options. I have already spent north of $12 million on legal fees trying to get the Academy buried under the jail. But we're still working on it.
Bob and I are working on it. I'm on the run from the IRS because I won't pay my taxes. I'm putting all of my money towards this game. It's just dangerous when the two of you are sitting so close to each other.
That was one of the ones where you had like a full breakdown for no reason about how bad it was. And both Sam Asmile and I were like, well, I don't know. I want to know what happened. Yeah, I don't know.
I thought it was terrible. I do think that the four front runners are undisturbed here after that. Gillian Murphy, Lily Gladstone, Rob Downey Jr. and Damon Goddard-Randolph.
I would agree. The only thing I was thinking about, and maybe I was thinking about this because we're about to do a whole thing on four things, is that last year at the Golden Globes, Kate Lynch won in drama, Michelle Yeoh won in comedy, and then Michelle Yeoh won at the SAG Awards. And that was when it turned. And we were like, oh, this is going to be Michelle Yeoh.
So if Emma Stone wins at the SAG Awards, that could be a real thing. I think Emma Stone is wonderful and I'll be pretty bummed out if she wins over Lily Gladstone. But it's possible. And I think that's how it would happen.
I wonder if that is, what do you think is the closest race right now of those four acting categories? I think Best Actor is probably a little closer than we think. It's probably Gillian, but Giamatti's there. And I think Damon Goddard-Randolph is a lock.
Feels like it. RDJ, I get it. That is probably happening. But there's been so much other category changes in there.
I'm not totally sure. You never know. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's always a few things that happen that we don't see coming where they developed very late. The biggest one, of course, is Andrew Rysborough.
But let's not forget Judd Hirsch, Ryan Sager, Henry in the past. These performances that were nominated that I would have never predicted. Or it would have been 7th, 8th, 9th on my board. I would really like that to be the entire cast of All of the Strangers.
That'd be exciting. That movie needs a crown as well. I think that's about to happen. But you never know.
We're going to do it next week, right? Next week we're going to talk about All of the Strangers. I think that's pretty much it on SAG. You know, this is a weird body.
Who's going to do the I am an actor this year? Who do you got? You could see Giamatti doing this. Yeah.
It was honestly a little obvious. Yeah. You know, like, I don't care. The twist on that.
The twist was campaigning. Yeah, it was campaigning. But the In-N-Out is such, like, a common thing at this point. Like, he's really working with high respect.
But I did like the twist of the two burgers and fries. So the In-N-Out fries are not worth the carbs. He's familiar with the game. You know, he knows what to do.
Can we, Bobby, I started this with you on a text chain, but I want to make this public. I want to put it on the agenda for the auction. Can we talk about protein plates at Sweetgreen and general bulking nutrition? Sean is at the bottom of the line.
You guys can talk about this anytime. But on a precious recording of an auction episode, which is coming to the listeners in five days, you want to spend time on protein plates? There's actually plenty of time while we're doing, like, a psychological warfare. That's true.
That's true. Body will come prepared to compactly communicate this information. Okay, great. I'll be able to listen.
It's just, like, are vegetables out? You know? Maybe. Not for me.
You know, fiber is important. Right, right. Exactly. But I was like, what are we doing here?
It's just protein ingredients. Like, what? Don't you need vegetables to be healthy? I guess.
Okay. I don't know what to say. We're going to talk about vegetables. No, that's not true.
I'm a vegetable consumer. I love cauliflower. So this is not Adam. Broccoli to me, it's like I put, like, an alien plant in my mouth.
It's like I went to Mars and I discovered a new creature. You need this. It's good for you. When was the last time that you tasted broccoli?
Oh, fairly recently, because Alice loves broccoli. So you're trying it, because it might have just been like the way it was being cooked was not. I get what you're saying here. People have been trying to eat broccoli for 41 years.
Like, it ain't happening. Like, we're good. It's a wrap. Like, I eat a lot of healthy food, actually.
I love healthy food. You kind of remind me a little bit of the Emma Stone character in Poor Things. You know, like, you've matured in some respects, and other things are still lagging behind. I mean, choose to eat broccoli.
Broccoli, incredible segues. The power on that side of the table is really, really beautiful. It's much easier in person. Okay, let's talk about Poor Things.
So, Poor Things is, I think, the eight feature films directed by Yorah Zanamos, who is, I think, considered one of the European masters. A Greek filmmaker who's kind of moved to England and America to work with English-speaking actors. This is his first movie in five years since The Favourite, which was his most commercial yet, widely lauded by the Academy. This is a movie that Emma Stone won for, right?
Or is it La La Land? She won for La La Land, but Olivia Colman. Olivia Colman, thank you. This is a bit of a reunion with his dream team, obviously, Robbie Ryan, coming back to shoot the film.
It is, how would you describe this movie? Would you say it is a fantasy? Would you say it is an allegory? Would you say it's a, you know, Emma Stone, notably identified as a rom-com on the Colman Colman's telecast?
What kind of a movie is this to you? It's sort of a fairy tale, almost, like a, as you noted here, like a weird steampunk Victorian fairy tale. Yeah, yeah. It's a fable, right?
It's a fable with a lot of things we're not used to seeing in fables, with sex and absurdity and a bit of violence, and it's a quote-unquote crazy movie. That's how it has been described. This is the craziest movie of the year, which I'm not entirely sure it's that. I think in some ways it's more conventional than it's being described as, but it is very audacious in its design, and in some respects its story.
It's also very indebted to, like, the history of movies, like, it is a history of, like, a creature storytelling. This could have been a girl about the horror movie, honestly, based on the way that the story unfolds, but you've got this critical collaboration between Yorba Sontimos and Emma Stone, who now is their second feature, we know they're doing a third, they've also already done a short film. This is, like, a Scorsese De Niro thing that's happening. Like, she clearly has lashed on to something with him, he's lashed on to something with her, they found each other at a good time.
What do you think of poor things? I liked it a lot. I really, so I saw it at Venice, I'm sorry, I think this is probably the last time I'll say that sentence, so y'all. I know, we'll see.
Well, for this year, anyway. I played Taps, like, this is the last time I'll say the man to saw a movie at Venice. But so I saw it, I wasn't there for, like, the very first wave of the festival screening, like, I wasn't there for the first screening, and it debuted pretty much simultaneously at Venice in a Telluride where you were, I think you saw it there as well, and Emma Stone was famously, like, in attendance at Telluride, like, as a civilian watching movies. But so there was this kind of, like, big, immediate, oh my gosh, poor things, it's like, the movie of the year, and, you know, and it was about six weeks after the Barbie wave, and there are some really obvious comparisons to be made here, just in terms of this, I suppose you could say whether it's a feminist coming-of-age story, or just, like, a girl creature who's got to learn some things about the world.
A wacky sex comedy starring Frankenstein. Right, and so I would say that the initial critical reaction was just like, wow, poor things, this is, like, the best thing that's ever happened, and so I went in, like, 24 hours after that, and with, like, a lot of anticipation, and a little bit of skepticism, because once you say Frankenstein, I'm like, all right. Would you say that you were Yorgos Long the most, setting aside the favorite, which I know you love? Yeah.
Would you say you were Yorgos Long the most fan? Yes, I really, also, I love The Lobster. Okay, I mean, I love The Lobster. You like his tone and his storytelling?
Yes, and I also tend to like the things that he is interested in, I mean, like, The Lobster is his version of a romantic comedy, right, like, the favorite is his version of Mean Girls, like, Doctor, oh, well, it is, like, Doctor, Doctor Youth is, like, his version of, like, the, you know, coming-of-age, like, family story, not like, that's, like, a very fucked-up version of it, but. It's his days and confusion. Yeah, he is, like, making, he's interested in genres, like, genres that I'm interested in, and so this, to the extent that it was compared to a monster film, I was like, well, that's, you know, not as much my cup of tea as a romantic comedy or Mean Girls. So, so I was like, I both had, like, major expectations going into this and a little bit of skepticism, and I walked out being like this, I mean, that's just flat-out great.
Like, it is, it is just so well-made. The Emma Stone performance is lights out. She's so, so good. And obviously, like, you, Sean, in particular, talked about how she's, like, one of the great movie stars, but she's, like, unbelievable here, like, the physical comedy, like, the emotional, like, the arc that she goes on and what she communicates, the way that her face looks on the screen, and they're, like, they're a lot of close to this movie.
Like, really, more so than in many other love close films, but you understand why, because of the way that her face just holds the camera. So, she's amazing. Production design, and specifically the costumes in this movie, are unreal. I'm also a fan of Tony Macamara, so I thought it was, like, very funny.
I just, it's kind of undeniable. Like, it is just very good, and it's not that crazy. I mean, I guess it's crazy, but it's more just amusing. Well, it features, you know, if you go through this conversation, we will spoil it a bit.
I don't know if, but in particular, the thing that is quote-unquote crazy about it is, it is one of the more daring performances of sex in a movie by a movie star who is as well-known and accomplished as a film. It's very, very unusual for an American movie star to be in, like, 14 sex scenes in a movie, and as new as she is in the film, and as pointed as the film is about the act and meaning of sex. That is a huge part, and the kind of, like, epiphanic realizations that come from her sexuality. It's just not something we see in American movies.
We talked about it in the Fair Play episode last year. In particular, it's gotten more small-tee conservative in the last 10 years. So, that aspect of it is quote-unquote crazy. Everything else in the movie feels like it was on the most budget to me.
It's a very particular tone that he attaches himself to. His sense of humor, I like a lot, and I thought the movie was very, very funny. I would not, you know, you put it at the bottom of our outline. Thank you for charting the outline.
That was very helpful. I had some time. I lost our time. It was really amazing.
I just had 45 minutes, and I got a manicure, and then I did this outline. It means the world. I can't wait. Thank you, Richard James.
Immediately after the Oscars, we'll be doing this full-time, so I'm very happy about that. You asked, sort of, like, what is your power ranking of the films? I'm still a little like, this is not my favorite. I mean, that's why I put this there, and I saw it again yesterday, as did you, because we hadn't seen it since the summer.
In five months, yeah. And it's incredibly good, and I would say, lags a little bit the second time around. It does, it does. And again, some of it is just, your taste may vary, and I'd rather have Olivia Colman and Rachel Face and Emma Stone yelling at each other with Nicholas Holt and Bill Allen being confused, rather than a bunch of dudes and Emma Stone, even though she's transcendent, and it's really, really funny.
So that's just a preference thing. Yeah, I think some of it is, it's clearly a movie with a point and a point of view, and because of that, once the point of view has been communicated to you the first time you watch it, you're like, okay, I got it. Yeah. Like, I got it.
In a weird way, I was like, there are too many sex scenes in this movie the second time I watched it. And it's also really surprising, the first time, you know, it's not like, like we said, it's not like crazy, like, oh, I mean, I guess there is a little bit of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they did that, but even in the sex scenes, they are in that typical Yorizont's way, like, many of them are sort of deadpan or absurdist. Yeah, and there is, they're not presented with that, like, American Puritan scandalization, even though everyone else, it's Victorian, so everyone else is, like, scandalized, and part of the point is that Emma Stone's character, Bella, is just like, well, this seems great, can we do more furious jumping, which is just really funny. And she doesn't know that you're not supposed to masturbate, she doesn't know that you're not supposed to talk about these things, she's like, this is great.
But, so it's all presented in a way that is not what you expect, which is interesting the first time, and then the second time, you're like, in on the joke, and you're like, oh, okay, like, that's good. Yes, there is not good quality to watching a second time. The first time. The first hour to me is a revelatory movie.
I think brilliantly staged, very funny. You're kind of craning your neck to figure out where they're going with this thing the first time you see it. The other thing that I really like about this movie is that it's like a wonderful first act about parenting. You know, the Godwin character that Willem Dafoe plays, who is a kind of mad scientist who is interested in revivification and cadavers and human combinations, kind of an Island of Dr.
Moreau kind of figure who's like fusing two different kinds of creatures. He is essentially dad and God for Bella, which is one of the best recurring business. I laughed every time she called me. It's so funny.
It's just a very, very clever way to make the point of the movie, which is that, you know, man, old men, they are godlike figures of our world. They are the people in control. They are the people who dictate sexual mores, who dictate our philosophies, who dictate our social way of living. So that's obviously, that's like the critical idea in the most movies, which is that every movie he makes, he is asking you and makes you ask yourself, why are things this way?
Why do we do things this way? In Dogtooth, it's largely like verbal. It's what words do we use and how do we use them? How does that dictate the way that we go through society or don't go through society?
And also, it's what our God telling us is the right thing. Exactly. And this movie is very much kind of, it's not just in conversation with that movie, it's like the sequence of that movie in some ways, because the Godwin character, who has, and now we'll kind of get into some spoiler territory for the story, has saved the Bella character, who is not actually Bella, she's a different woman, who has thrown herself off of a bridge. And while she's done so, we learn that she was pregnant.
And in his attempts to revive her, he performs, I guess, a surgery in which he removes the child from her body and removes the brain from the child and also removes Bella's brain and then replaces Bella's brain with the child's brain. That's a few surgeries. A few surgeries, multiple surgeries. Now, all in a day's work.
This is the part of the podcast where you realize that this movie is not real and is an absurdist fantasy. And so people who are reviewing this movie and are like, I found this offensive. That is an insane take, because this is obviously a ridiculous movie and a ridiculous conceit, and we are in the land of creatures and ridiculousness. So I find the outrage about the movie, whether you like it or not, to be super weird and dumb.
I'm not even aware of the outrage. There is a sector of the internet. Are they mad because it's like, why did you do that to the mom or the baby? Well, I think that there's, I think one strain of it, and there are probably many strains, but the one strain I've seen is the idea of a baby, a child, having a kind of sexuality.
That is the most upsetting to people. Oh, come on. Which is weird, because obviously what happens is that we see Bella, when she receives the baby's brain, God starts raising her. And he's raising her in the best way he knows how, which is to say not very well.
But Emma's own performance as a zero-year-old, as a one-year-old, as a two-year-old, as a three-year-old. It's very familiar. It's very accurate. I know.
Isn't that amazing? And you know what's really amazing? It's like the first time I saw it in us was like 18 months, and now he's almost two. And I was like, wow, we've really tried to develop it here over six months.
I had the exact same feeling watching it last night. It's so funny how close it is to the things that little, you know, the babies do. Emma Stone is a mother now, of course. Does Emma Stone have most of kids?
I don't even know. I think he does. The way that she's doing is almost like an acting class, like a seminar. You know, like you would do when you're learning how to act in the theater.
But the fact that they're able to render it as entertaining, funny, you can sit in a movie theater and watch this, and not the most boring, droning, like I'm watching videotaped actor classes is kind of unbelievable. I mean, it's a testament to Emma Stone's charisma and personality and comedic timing. She's able to make it interesting while also doing this thought experiment. I think the world that is created around her makes it seem not like that hokey, like be a tree, be a tiger.
I mean, you're talking about the acting school because of the set design and the way the film is shot. You know, you very wisely identify that there are some visual ticks that on the most really relies on the fisheye lens camera, the like absurd angles at which she shoots characters that I think also helps you get invested in this in a way that another filmmaker making a movie and having an actor make that choice just might not work very well, might seem stupid. But it really is like watching a two-year-old. She sells it.
I think that's one of the reasons why it's one of the performances is that she's so believable as a two-year-old, which is not easy to pull off. But anyway, God is sort of raising her the best way he knows how. He takes on an assistant played by Rami Youssef in a very funny performance. She's wonderful.
Yeah, so good. For those of you who have not seen Rami, wonderful TV show that he was a star of. And we start to see the coming of age starts basically once Rami arrives, which is that Rami has fallen in love with this like five-year-old child in the body of Emstone. And then everyone sort of starts falling in love with Bella.
That becomes part of the parable about women moving through the world and the way that they encounter men who only want one thing from them. And shortly after Rami's character enters the house, God starts drawing up a plan for Rami's character to marry Bella. And in doing so, they encounter a lawyer named Duncan Wedderburn who's played by Mark Ruffalo. And that man had great names.
All the names are so good. A lot of alliteration as well. When Mark Ruffalo comes into the movie, the movie starts to transform a bit. It goes from this story about a baby girl learning how to live through the world to, you know, I guess it's adolescence is really what the movie starts to become about.
Like, how do you see, because Ruffalo obviously also falls in love with her and then whisks her away to Lisbon where he can have his way with her essentially. And she's learning about the world, not just sex though, specifically sex. And the movie does a great thing. The first section is all shot in black and white.
And then, you know, there's a Lisbon title card and cut to the Furious jumping, a.k.a. them having very acrobatic sex and it's in color. And it's like the movie turns to color once she does about that. I mean, it's really, it's really, really good and very funny.
But she's also learning about everything from like the weird parts that they eat to, you know, she wanders around Lisbon. She sneaks out while he's napping in this immaculate outfit. The clothes in this movie are out of control. They're so good.
The costumes are by Holly Waddington. And this one in particular, she's wearing yellow silk shorts that are maybe supposed to be underwear in the Victorian getup. But anyway, she's wearing the shorts and these white heeled ankle boots and then whatever like shoulder, you know, Brandon Flowers thing that she's doing because that's sort of the silhouette of the movie, you know, like pad tassels, lots of shoulders, lots of bolero type like feather. Anyway, I was just like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen.