All right, here we go, quiet. Hello, welcome to the Big Picture Podcast, where we take a look at the latest movie news, the films of today and yesterday, and put them all into some sort of context. You know, you've been here before, so you know that seated across the microphone from me right now is Film Buff Online, Wizard, and Comic-Con enthusiast as of this weekend. Where's your trees?
Hey, and seated across the microphone from me is Film Buff Online, contributing editor, general cheerleader, and... I can go into a Broadway show this weekend. Natasha Buttsky. Woo!
Yes, as we record, we are... I am just 36 hours away or so from being on the road to New York Comic-Con. I will be getting up at 5 a.m. to be there.
I will... I will give you a call before I go. Would you like that at 6 o'clock? Or not?
Ow. I guess that's a no. That was me throwing my phone at him. Yes, that large clunk was it bouncing off my thick head, apparently.
But yeah, excited for that. We're recording if people are doing a math backwards on Tuesday of this week, October 10th, and that means... Moonlighting premiered on Hulu. Oh, I knew that was the fucking coming.
Oh, this was a show that was very much part of the Zeitgeist in 1985, 867 launched the career of Bruce Willis. We would not have had Bruce Willis without this show. True. And it had kind of been out of circulation since the early aughts when they released DVDs for all five seasons, which have long since been out of print.
And guess why? Music rights. Oh, they figured that shit out? I...
They figured some music rights out, some others. They did not. Actually, I kind of understand, because one of the shows that I really love, which is hard to find, it's called Secret Diver Call Girl with Millie Piper. The first two seasons and the last season are available on physical media after it aired simultaneously with Forget Which Channel It Was in the UK, and Showtime here in the US.
But the third season, nowhere to be found. I've seen it, but it's nowhere. I was gonna say, did they ever released a season three or was it just released short and then kind of went out of print and they didn't work hard to bring it back? I think it might have something to do with the music rights, because if you, this is actually kind of funny.
So I have seen a version, I've seen the UK version of the first season, and I've seen the US version of the first season. The music is different in each season. So my brain is going, could that be a possibility of why season three doesn't exist? That may very well be.
It might have been too much of an issue to just do insurmountable. This is a thing we see with a lot of shows. Obviously, WKRP and Cincinnati, wall-to-wall music, because it's at a radio station. Miami Vice, another of the mid-80s shows that really brought a great cinematic aesthetic to television, and was a game changer that way, wall-to-wall pop hits.
So that has been a struggle to get out on streaming and on physical media at times. And like I said, the DVDs for moonlighting were released between 2003 and 2007, and hasn't been on streaming at all ever, hasn't been in syndication since like the early 90s, I don't think. Yeah, it's very strange for a show that had this kind of nuclear bomb impact on the culture, to kind of have been, yeah, to disappear. And I've talked to so many people, you, my friend, Mike, and some other people who are like, yeah, I've never seen the show because I haven't had the chance to.
I never even heard of it before meeting you. Which is surprising because I think it would be something I think maybe your mom would have watched back in the day. We didn't have a whole lot of access to television at that time. That's true, yeah.
And so I'm very excited that, you know, about a year ago, almost to today, the creator of the show, Glenn Gordon, Karen had gone on social media and said, hey, we're starting to try to figure out how to get the show back out there for people. And a year later, they went back to the original film Elements and did a 4K high-def restoration, which looks really nice, especially because the show would frequently kind of change its look in terms of like when they do a black and white episode or when they do a dream sequence episode. There's a dream sequence episode in season three that's directed by Stanley Donin. Okay, Stanley Donin, the director of Singing in the Rain.
Oh, yes. You know, he worked with Jean Kelly. And I didn't realize who the director was from. Oh, that's okay.
And so the show's look as great as it ever has because it's only ever been available in like an old school 4ADP, excuse me, standard death. I know you showed me a quick clip of it this afternoon, and it does look really good. Yeah, it's what I'm worried about is it works so hard to get this release after 40 years. Is it going to find a new audience without marketing?
Well, yeah, that's that's streaming for you. Hopefully, I think word of mouth. I think, you know, I've seen some pieces being written on certain sites on slate. I saw something.
I saw a couple of other pieces. We have a piece going up later on tonight or first thing in the morning at Film Buff Online. On the 13 essential moonlighting episodes, you need to see. I had a lot of fun writing that revisiting a bunch of stuff over the last week or two.
And thinking about certain things and how people reacted to the show at the time and what makes an essential episode for that series. And the piece that I showed you, in case people are wondering, was from The Dream Sequence, Always Rings Twice, which is the famous quote unquote black and white episode from early in the second season, introduced by Orson Welles in his last film, The Parents. He died like five days after he filmed that. And then they dedicated the episode to him, which was very sweet.
In fact, if you find, there's an oral history of moonlighting as a book out there. And a lot of the people, basically they interviewed everybody except for this book. And there's a substantial couple of pages set to everybody's reaction to Orson Welles being on set, you know, for that short couple of hours that he was there to record that intro. That was really sweet.
You know, all these people like just like, oh my gosh. And I didn't even get to show you, they do a lot of stuff with the lighting. Like when Sybil Shepherd gets her close up shots, they do some old school Hollywood glamour lighting on her. That it is a little bit jarring when they cut back to a two shot.
But when it's just on her, it's stunning and beautiful. And this show was constantly behind schedule. But it's kind of, I mean, at the time, it was a horrible thing. It made the show late.
They never fulfilled a 22 season order and kind of made fans a little upset. But in retrospect, looking at how absolutely perfect it was, you know, these, you know, in terms of imagery, in terms of storytelling, it feels very forgivable now, 40 some years later. But there you go. So that's what I've been watching the last several days.
I started with Frazier a couple of months ago. I'm somewhere in season five. I got ways to go. I know the, um, you can't call it a fucking reboot anymore.
It's a legacy sequel. It's, it's, they're not going to get season 11 or whatever. Are they? No, it's 11 already happened.
But no, it's just fucking Frazier. Okay. Like there's no like colon and whatever after it from what I saw. So I probably will be getting to that until after I'm finally done.
And actually the only thing on television that I'm excited for this month, the return of the Gilded Age. Oh, okay. How have you been enjoying that? I loved the first season.
It's not now. Even though it is written by Julian Fellows and there is an argument that can be made for, uh, there are some slight similarities between like the upstairs and the downstairs staff. But I think it plays a little more also with, um, racial issues post civil war in America at the time. You're looking at the industrial revolution and how that changed the class system.
You're dealing with a society change. I mean, technically you kind of had something similar happening down, but it was so kind of specific. Despite the fact that it's a broad kind of similarity. It's a broad similarity, but with Downton, you are kind of secluded at High Clear Castle in the Yorkshire countryside.
It, the world is like looking at Shikshini and Makanakwa. If you guys know Pennsylvania, if you guys have ever been in Northeastern Pennsylvania, you might understand what I'm saying. You're out in the boonies. Yeah, it's like, okay, Shikshini is like a little tiny town and Makanakwa is where you go and you see Confederate flags being hung up over your local bar for a heads up.
We live in Wilkesburg in Scranton and this is like 30 minutes from us, which is concerning. Yeah, whereas like Scranton would be, say, London or New York City, which is going to have a different society shift and, uh, the idea where people are going to be a little more interested in what's happening in the now rather than what happened in the past. And we should name drop though that Kristen Ritter, the actress, is from originally from Shikshini and her modeling career started when she was spotted by a talent scout at one of our local malls. Yeah.
So, um, she's, she's wonderful. Memories of those malls. Yeah, which is kind of sad now. Yeah, I think the, the only store that really does well at the mall right now is, no, I was going to say the tumbleweed store because it just had tumbleweeds growing all the way through this place.
It's so, it feels so deserted. Cinnabon does pretty well. Oh, yeah, cinnabon. But this area doesn't have a lot of healthy options.
So, yeah, well, mall culture itself is kind of dying, which makes, which, you know, when I go back, okay, sorry, there was an episode of moonlighting that I watched a little bit of today that has them at a mall. And they do make a, there's like, they show up at a mall a couple of times to the series to run for various things. But also we have movies like even mall rats or fast times at Ridgemont High, which really kind of preserve that these things are like shopping mechas and people went there. And I don't know if it was Amazon and shopping via internet and having stuff brought to you that kind of destroyed that whole experience.
I think that's what started it, but I don't think that's what really killed it. I think it's actually now our younger generation who is looking more to not so much to fast fashion, although they do buy an awful lot of fucking sheen and fashion Nova. And I am guilty of that as I'm currently right now wearing a sweater from Fashion Nova. Honest though, this thing is really heavy and it's heavy and it's really pretty.
But and it's one of the more higher quality pieces I've ever received in my life from a fashion house. I ran this thing through so many washes and I don't have a single bit of pilling going on right now. That being said, it is they're looking for more recyclable materials. They're looking to kind of minimize the carbon footprint.
So a lot of people are either buying fabrics that are they're spending a lot more money on not a lot of items that they're going to use over and over and over because they're trying to save our earth and save cash or they're going to consignment shops and thrift shops and buying in bulk but still buying things that they're going to utilize a lot and not creating more waste, but using what's already out there. A shift in how generationally people go about acquiring their wardrobe. Yeah, I could see that as a part of a reason why people would stop going to a mall. But it also doesn't help that our mall doesn't cater to the generation that has the money.
That's true too. That's that's an individual thing. I'm talking about mall culture in general though. You don't go to the mall to go to a bookstore anymore because you have Amazon.
You don't go to a mall to go to the record store because you have Amazon or iTunes and you can download that kind of stuff. I don't need to download it. It's just using Spotify like I have every song in my fingertips. Yeah, but we've actually gone to a record store and spent like an hour or two like just flipping through all the discs and looking at what's available and that's a great thing and I honestly sometimes I kind of miss that.
Oh, I miss it too and that's why every now and then I'll find a way to do it. But picking and choosing what you're going to purchase now, a lot of people want a more minimal lifestyle and I think that's becoming a case of you're going to laugh at me. Everything is getting more expensive. Apartments are getting smaller.
The prices for these apartments are astronomical. Yeah, let's do tell. Right now you cannot complain. I know.
I have a decent. You have a really nice sized apartment and a decent amount. That's decent comparatively to a lot of us. If I was finding this now on the market, it would be three times its price.
Right now you you have the NEPA version of what everyone in New York City is jealous of. Rent stabilization. It's not rent stabilized trust me. Oh, it still goes up December 28th.
I got a nice little letter from my landlord who's next door. It does go up, but it is a stable amount. They would be jealous. I would be happier if it didn't go up quite as much.
If it wasn't almost parallel to my normal job raise because it feels like I'm not, you know, I'm not gaining any ground in that. Everyone's feeling that. Yeah, I understand. But the issue with that is because everything is going up and apartments are getting smaller.
We can't fill it with as much stuff. I'm trying. I know you are fucking trying. I'm sitting it.
But yeah, no, I understand what you're saying. Which is why they're not spending as much or when they are, they'll save up for say three weeks to buy a very high quality blouse that they're going to use for the next five years. Obviously, when you're not spending and spending and spending malls and stores are going to go bankrupt. Yeah, it's an overall shift in consumerism, which I understand.
And you know, the music industry and the film industry can still sell lots of home video and lots of music to people, but yeah, it can fit all into a tiny little hard drive as opposed to having a wall full of records or something like that. Yeah, you know, so I love the idea of having my own personal library and stuff, but it may not be conducive to my living. Yeah. And all of that is kind of fed into, unfortunately, the decline of the American shopping mall, which is a shame because it was not just consumerism.
There was a community aspect to it. You and your friends would go to the mall on a Friday night or on a Saturday night, you know, and you'd go around and you'd see, oh, there's another group of people, you know, you talk to them, you know, somebody else from another school and you see them. You're going to see like the goth group walking down the street. You're going to see Jeff, you're new in town.
You're like, oh, skaters, you know, trying to do wheelies on their bicycle in the parking lot. Yeah, if you're new in town, you go to the mall and maybe you'll find your people like the goth kids or the skaters or, you know, the guys flipping through record albums at the music store or hanging out in the sci-fi section of the bookstore. My brain just did this weird combination of mall rats meets the Lost Boys. Oh my God, that sounds frightening.
Well, I think about like the character in the Lost Boys new to town, gets a crush on a girl, but almost immediately this group is like, you got to set a wheels, try to keep up with us. Immediately almost inviting him into the group. Yes. So that's what you triggered there.
And thankfully, because we see that kind of culture, it's kind of preserved in a way. It doesn't disappear as, you know, so many other American experiences, I think it disappeared before the advent of movies. So it's kind of great that we have these things. And so yeah, if you have, if you're my age and you're missing the mall, yeah, sit down and watch Fast Times at Ridgemont High or mall rats, or a number of other movies, maybe not chopping mall.
You need to. Tapping mall is not really the mall experience unless you were too or chased by it. That being robots with lasers. If you want something a little more modern, but still get that vibe.
Watch the whole third season of Stranger Things. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I will be here all week. That's true.
Yes. It takes place in a mall. Yeah, I know. I know.
I haven't seen it, but I know. Good Lord, do I know. You can't escape it. We will be fixing that.
But speaking of films that were in the zeitgeist or pop culture things that were in the zeitgeist. Yes. Let's go to what we're going to talk about as a retro review today. And we're only doing it as a retro review because a legacy sequel is now out.
Well, I was going to say it's spooky season. But yeah, that's. Spooky is. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's the 50th anniversary. So if you hadn't looked at the title on your MP3 player or your phone or however you consume this podcast, we're talking about the exorcist. Yes.
OK. I have seen the exorcist a number of times. I've chatted with Jason Miller about this movie once. One of the great things about living in northeast and Pennsylvania.
Because you might have a chance to bump into father cars. Yes. Especially if you know where Jason Miller happened to drink all the time. Look, all I'm saying is I had to interview him for not the exorcist but for something else for the local newspaper and my editor said to me.
Championship season? No. It was a play that he wrote about coal miners. And my editor gave me the best piece of advice ever.
He said, when you're scheduling the interview with Jason Miller, schedule it before noon. Otherwise. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly what you think. Oh my god.
Exactly what you're thinking. But this was your first time seeing it. Yes, it was. Now your husband was between me and you at the movies.
Which is funny because usually I'm on one side and you know your hubby's on the other. So I didn't get the full entertaining show of you reacting to this movie. So tell me what were your immediate impressions of the exorcist? Red wings.
Red wings. Red wings. Jesus. The first thing my brain went to.
No, actually I thought it was extremely well done. It's not terrifying. Like I was walking into that thinking that I was going to have the worst nightmares of my life. Like that's what everyone has always built the exorcist up to to be in my brain.
Um, you know, obviously it's something that probably terrified them when they were younger, coming to it a later time because of those early memories. It's still scares them now. Uh, coming to it, I wasn't terrified. Were you expecting like gore or more gore or?
Fuck with my head. Okay. Um, like more psychological stuff. Uh, it's kind of hard to explain.
Cause I'm not quite certain if I have a basis for comparison. Okay. Um, that being said, I know what I would compare it to now having seen it in terms of how I reacted to it. Uh, and I would compare it to the original Omen.
Which I absolutely adore that film. When I was a kid, it terrified the hell out of me. As I've gotten older, I appreciated a lot more. And I actually just watch it for shits and giggles.
I actually scared the shit out of my coworkers the other day because, you know, it's the beginning of October. I'm going to celebrate somehow. How did I celebrate instead of playing like the Halloween theme or something cliche? I started playing Abbe Seitani and the person sitting next to me is a pastor on their spare time.
So it was amazing. I don't know how you remain employed there. Anyways, um, carefully, yeah. Okay.
Well, let me ask you this. You said you thought it was going to be more psychological. Yeah. Does, uh, do you, uh, where do you stand in terms of your personal religious beliefs?
If I make, if, if I may intrude, if you feel like, um, where do you want me to start? Um, well, you were raised Roman Catholic, right? Yes. As was I.
Okay. What was the last time you were to church? Probably, apart from funerals, um, maybe a year ago. Okay.
Christmas Easter Catholic then. I would say normally. Yes. I will a couple of years ago when I was working in Scranton on Penn Avenue, um, right across the street from St.
Patrick's Cathedral. And I did find myself drawn to it a lot more. And I would go in just to sit there during like evening mass or whatever. If I got done early with my job, but, uh, you know, that, that falls, by the way, side, and every couple of years it comes back.
I think it's more of a case that I enjoy the ritual of church. I don't completely believe in all the teachings. Okay. And I do find that if you are Roman Catholic, if you're raised Roman Catholic, it's kind of instilled in you that you have to believe in full doctrine.
You can't pick and choose. Yes. It's not if you try your, I've heard you've been being labeled as a cafeteria Catholic. Yeah.
But it, a lot of that doctrine, I don't think, um, translates to our modern day society. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Cause what I'm trying to get to is that being said, sorry, really quick. Okay. That being said, when I do attend, I am very rigorous in my worship when I go there. It's not that I, well, the moment I walk through those doors, I do believe.
Because if I didn't, why did I walk in there in the first place? Okay. I believe that there is something out there. I, but I also believe that I'm human.
And I don't have all damn answers. And me trying to explain it is me trying to say that I am a god. That's fair. Okay.
I see what you're saying. No, but I always put on my mantilla when I go to fucking church. Now, what I was trying to get at was in the last several decades, the United States has seen a drop in church going, um, a drop in people's, um, being identifying with themselves as part of specific religious traditions. So I was wondering if maybe a movie from 50 years ago works harder on somebody because they're a little bit more steeped in that Catholic tradition or that Christian tradition.
Oh, that is actually a really good question. I have actually been noticing an upturn on religion recently, but not in Catholic. More of the evangelical. Yeah.
A lot of people pulling away from the, the doctrine, they don't, it's not that they don't have faith in the faith. It's more that they don't have faith in the people who are in the faith. If that makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah. I can see especially over the last several years and decades. Organized religion is actually terrifying a lot of people. Yeah.
But the evangelical sect, I think, allows them a little more freedom. So it is there that they find their faith renewed and kudos to them. Yes. But, um, I don't think I had an issue with, uh, the faith aspect of this film.
It is kind of steeped in a particular time period. And when you think of exorcism, you do think of Catholic. You don't think of. Nobody else really has that idea.
Yeah. It is, it is part of a rigorous, um, no, no, my, my thought was maybe connected with people more, you know, 50 years ago, because they were stronger religious faith. Oh my god. Okay.
So you have not seen the new legacy sequel, Exorcist. I have not. And I have not heard good things either, but you, I know you went. I did recently see it.
And the answer to that question is in that movie. It's probably the only good thing really that came out of it. But I cannot answer that question without giving away some spoilers for the new film. Um, I actually can't.
Okay. If you are intending to see the new exorcist film and you haven't yet, um, in spite of reviews, you're still going to tough it out. Uh, skip over the next three minutes of this podcast. No, I'm not even going to answer it.
Okay. You're not even going to? No, I'm not going to answer it. Um, no, no, no, keep that in.
Oh, okay. Don't cut it. Okay. And don't cut me telling you to keep it in.
No, that there is a, I know that you down the line will probably go to see it yourself. Yeah. Which is why I'm saying, I'm not going to answer this, but once you see it, I will be more than happy to revisit that particular question. Okay.
Okay. Sounds fair. Um, okay. So, so what did work for you in this movie?
Okay. Honest. Everything. Um, I thought the performances were strong across the board.
Okay. Something did annoy me. And it is just a sign of the times. So I was trying to forgive it.
And I know how good of an actress this person is. Which is why another reason I was trying to forgive it. Ellen Bernstein, however, when she. There are times where her fear and her hysteria is almost melodramatic.
But that was the style of acting probably from the 70s and pre. You know that quick. Well, I'm not going to take anymore. Yeah.
Like it's just like Jesus slowed down. There's hysteria. And then there's are you, are we on a soap opera? Okay.
You don't want to be right. And I do feel like that there was this. Switch. And the switch didn't come until probably the late 70s to early 80s, where we started seeing go from heightened emotion to more realistic emotion.
She ride the strong line. But when she's begging Father Caris and a few others, she does go like off the rails. And I'm like, Ellen, my dear, I love you. I've seen what you can do.
Requiem for a dream. Nearly literally did me in. So bring it back. But then I have to remind myself that was 25 years prior.
Yes. Yes. Oh, that was the only issue I really had a problem with. Okay.
I was in. I was actually slightly impressed also with a lot of the special facts that were done. The Xers is twist. You guys watch Buffy, you understand the reference.
You can tell it's kind of a, I don't want to call it a robot animatronic. Yeah, dummy head. Yeah, dummy head. But it's in like a wider shop, but then they move in close.
And it's really, you know, her, but with a false, you know, back, you know, that she's leaning into basically coming in. I'm thinking of the wide. Yeah, the wide. Yeah, the wide.
But once you cut in, you kind of buy the whole thing because it's her. It's her face at that point. And 1973, you're pre a lot of those special effects. I mean, like by 12 years, like I'm thinking of Terminator.
A lot of those animatronics really starting to come to play. I thought this film was very fucking well done. Oh my God, the crowd walked down the stairs. Jesus.
And that was originally not in the movie. They shot it and then they said, no, it's not. They shot it and it wasn't blood that fell from her mouth. I've seen the original crab walk.
You know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah, yeah. That's more terrifying than the blood was. But you can't add that now.
No, even though they kept in the red wings and the crucifix. You know what I'm talking about. Yes. Yeah.
Um, I think they had tried to cut that for like a modern sensibility. I mean, the crucifix thing is. Those are iconic moments that have now been cemented 50 years. Yeah, but that was a delete.
The crab walk was a deleted scene. The crab walk was back in. Yeah. That was what back in though about somewhere in the early aughts.
When they released The Exorcist. The version you've never seen before. Which means you can alter it because it's footage that no one, it had not become iconic because of the zeitgeist. True, true, true, true, true, true.
Um, Jason Miller, his first film performance. And it's I think phenomenal. I'm not just, again, not just saying. It's strictly fucking strong.
Or whatever. Yeah, it's amazing. He's heartbreaking when he's beating himself up emotionally about his mother dying. Um, I think he brings a humanity to a priest character that we don't see.
A fallibility. Yeah. Uh, you know, somebody who's constantly searching and questioning his own faith. Which I think is fantastic.
I think that happens a lot more than people like to think. And, uh, but it wasn't until. But it wasn't until really this movie that you see a lot of that. Okay, maybe in going my way with Frank, uh, with, um, being Crosby.
A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. But it's kind of.
It's kind of really disgusting. Yeah, it wasn't, it was very surface. This is really deeply psychological. And I think this is like kind of like a turning point for, uh, portrayals of clergy in film.
And I'm just kind of like. Like, I'm even thinking about other movies that portray clergy that were out around this time. Maybe a little bit before you would have something like where angels go trouble follows. Well, I'm also thinking about the lasting impression of that down to doubt.
Down to flea bag. Okay. Yeah. Like, I don't think we would have had that had not Father, Father, Kara's existed.
Which is interesting to me because when you, when I hear the exorcist and I think the priest. Until last week, I didn't even know Father, Kara's was a character in this film. When people. You just knew Jason Miller was in the movie.
No. Oh, you didn't. Okay. Wow.
So you really went into this blind. I really went into this blind. Okay. We all have our blind spots.
Everybody before you start yelling at your every player, your phone, whatever. It's not even that I had a blind spot. I knew of the exorcist. I had seen a couple of shots here and there.
I didn't know that there was a second priest. I didn't know that the second priest was actually technically the first priest. Mac, Max Von Sidow has such a strong choke hold over this film. Even though he doesn't, he appears in about four minutes in the beginning and maybe the last 20 minutes of the end between him and Linda Blair.
Those are really the only two names that I associated with the exorcist growing up when I, when I heard about it. Ellen Bernstein came a little later on in life, but until last week, I didn't even know there was a character named Father, Kara's. I didn't know that he played second fiddle in the exorcism itself. And I didn't know that he was probably the third major character of this movie.
So you didn't know that that as much screenplay, screen time as the other two women. So you didn't know that Jack Nicholson had audition for the role? No. And so I had Ryan O'Neill.
No. And those would have been terrible choices. Maybe Ryan O'Neill. Maybe.
I don't, I don't see Jack Nicholson. And this is still kind of pre-Jack Nicholson as Jack Nicholson in whatever movie he's in. Jack Nicholson. This is when he was still, I think, kind of interested in being an actor and not a movie star.
Yeah. So he, Ryan O'Neill could definitely sort of see there is a, an everyman quality to him. Jack Nicholson just has fucking crazy eyes that they do not. It's really hard to follow that look.
I just started watching Harper in the other day written by Noire Efron. Yes. It's on HBO Max. Oh my god, on Max.
You guys have a chance to check it out. Highly recommend it's practically autobiographical. Oh my. But, but getting back to here, I want to redo a quote from Jason Miller.
Well, that gave to me actually what we were talking about. The Exorcist is back in 2000. I wrote about it for local newspaper. And then also we, I repurposed the entire interview for a film off online.
And I want to get your reaction to what he had to say here. Okay. Okay. Quote, there's two ways to look at the Exorcist.
One way is that Father Carris gives his own life to save the girl. He jumps out of the window and Satan has been thwarted. The other way is that Satan really wanted the two priests and he just, and he was just using the girl as the instrument. He's up by seven points.
That's why the theologians got a little crazy about it. Because when they started looking at it at that level, they said, wait a minute, what kind of picture is this guy making? It's that existential ambiguity that makes it a go. You don't have that in movies anymore end quote.
So first of all, how did you read the ending of that movie? Was it Father Carris being a hero or Father Carris losing to Satan? Both in the same shot. Interesting.
So first off, let me preface this by saying that I had heard about a priest. About the priest in the ex, not a priest. The priest sacrificing himself to take the demon into himself in the Exorcist from a friend of mine. Because it was mentioned when we were doing Equus.
Okay. How these, the psychologist in that takes on the God and. Yes. In fact, I mentioned to this friend when I first saw the production that last week of Rehearsals.
I was like, is this riffing on the Exorcist here? And he was absolutely like, oh my God, yes. Yes, and he's in the script. So, but he said the priest.
So of course, through my own history of it, I had thought it was, that's one seat out. So imagine my shock when he dies probably about 10 minutes prior of a natural cause. What the fuck? During the final moment though, where he else take me, take me.
Yes, I did think that he was trying to be a hero. But I think he also at that point had fallen. Not, it wasn't sacrificial, he wasn't trying to be a martyr. The demon had also fucked his brain throughout the Exorcist, or through the Exorcist.
And he was feeling a ton of guilt and regret about people he couldn't save. So there's, there's that coin 50-50. Could be either him being a martyr, trying to save someone who is innocent, because he couldn't save his mom. Or there's a matter of, there's so much pain and guilt and regret on his shoulders that maybe he wanted to die.
Once he took the demon into him, when he jumped out the window, I actually thought the demon had caused him to do that. I know, I do realize that you can, you know, as they say in Doctor Who, you can make someone do the chicken dance, or you can't, you can't hypnotize in the death. Yes. So I don't think possession can do that either.
Wow, now we're just dealing with a hypothetical possible fantasy where you can make up the rules to suit your story. But also look at this. Why would, why would the creature want to kill their host? Only to have to try to find a new one.
That's the issue. That makes Father Cara's performing a heroic act. That's why I was very conflicted. You don't want to kill your host, because then you've got to try to jump and find another one.
And then jump and jump and jump. It's exhausting. But if you can hang onto your host for as long as possible, before that. Yeah.
But what would be the purpose of hanging onto a host? What's the purpose of possession? To find the one that you want to possess. And then what?
Why do you want to possess somebody? It depends on the entity. The entity obviously has a thing for religion. Why not go after the priest that was downstairs?
Why not go after the friend? Why not go after the mom? The mom's there all the time. The mom has a closer relationship with these priests and they do.
No, it bided its time and it drew them in like moths to a flame. Well, I think it was attracted, perhaps, to Father Cara's crisis of faith. And if it could do something to weaken his not believing God. Obviously, if you're suddenly confronted with a possession and a demon, you're going to go, well, obviously then probably God exists as well.
That's only going to strengthen your faith. But if you if you're confronted with something that makes you question certain aspects of your faith, though, like, why would God allow something like this to happen? Or my mother was a good person. Why is she in hell doing what?
Yeah. My mother is doing it. I know. Yeah.
Very iconic line, but we're not saying it on the podcast. No, no, no, no, no, no. But yeah. So there's, you know, there's a lot of interesting questions.
I think that this movie brings up. I think the Blair, sorry. Yeah, go ahead. I'm getting off with Jason Miller for a second, off of Ellen Burstein, the Maximus and Cito.
We cannot move on without discussing Linda Blair, the child who makes it all worth watching. Holy shit. It's an amazing performance. And it's one of the strongest child performances I think I've ever seen.
Because there's so much suffering. And it's not done up with, I mean, it's done up with some prosthetics and some makeup, but it's not done up with special effects and lighting and sound. And you know, you're going to have your jump scares. That's just shining it up with wax.
But if you take all that away, it's gritty, it's raw, and it's fucking heartbreaking. Now, here's the thing. And I've not searched out to see what she's discussed about her remembrance of the time on that set. But Miller, Burstein, others have said, Friedkin is not necessarily someone who understands the actor's process, doesn't understand that they like to rehearse.
He prefers just going on there and filming for spontaneity. And in this instance, in this film, Friedkin was known for like, shooting off a gun to get a starboard reaction out of an actor. When the actors are like, dude, we're actors, we can act startled. It's okay.
So I have to wonder, and I hope it's not very much. I have to wonder how much of those, not necessarily like, scaring the bejesus out of this poor little girl who's trying to act in this movie. But I have to wonder how much of her performance was based on how Friedkin... The external force works on these aren't sarcastic air quotes with actors or not.
So I don't know. That being, that's curious. Because honestly, I'm looking at her IMDB, and I'm not seeing a whole lot of other great roles here. Oh, she did a married with children.
You know, she was in a Perry Mason TV movie in 1992. Well, unfortunately, that's what happens when you do tend to get so much recognition for a single role that you become known for. It's hard to break out of it, particularly so young. Oh, I know.
I know. I feel bad for her, especially because she gave a great performance. You know? I received an Academy Award nomination for it.
Yes. But you also had like, Tatum O'Neill, who won an Academy Award, and still, I believe holds the record for the youngest recipient for Paper Moon. You also had Anna Packwin for the pianist, not the pianist, the piano. Yes.
But for being going back, I mean, Shirley Temple got an honorary Oscar as a child actor. But once they reach a certain point, you have to somehow transition from child actor to adult actor. Not everyone can make that leap. After Anna Packwin got her nomination and her win, there was a dry period while she was going through puberty, where she was doing like, okay, I was doing this small bit and doing this and this.
And then she did like a teen film called She's All That. If anyone here knows it, that's sarcasm. But it wasn't again until Rogue in the first segment film in 99, where you start seeing, okay, here she comes. Here comes adult Anna Packwin.
She's finally getting some roles with at least a little bit of me, Don. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's always been the case. I mean, we look at Abigail Breslin.
Okay. Fantastic actress, particularly when she was younger. Oscar nominee for Little Miss Sunshine. She's still working and she's still doing good work, but more in B level stuff now.
She doesn't have the work that she probably deserves. It is a tough transition to make for these actresses. Is there sure Ronan is somehow managed yet? Yes, yes.
But she also went through a small dry spell after retirement, where she ended up in like City of Ember. Well, no, I wanted to be in City of Ember, am I wrong? And The Lovely Bones. She gave a fantastic performance as the Stanley Tucci, and the only Oscar nomination he's ever received.
Which is a shame, because Stanley Tucci is amazing and like anything. Even when he's in a crappy Transformers movie, he's still like, I'm like, dude, it's a Transformers movie. It's a Transformers movie, you don't need to be this, you know, amazing. He's always good.
Yeah, he's ridiculous. But what I'm trying to say is making the transition is hard, and it is a shame that we did not see more of Linda Blair, because what she did in this movie was fucking brave for a child. Like I've seen child actors in horror films before, God knows we all have, but there is a level to which they just can't move past. I would say probably the only child performance in a horror film that gets to this level, maybe Hayley Joel Osmond in the success.
Six times. It gets close, but it's not quite there. And I think it's more because of what she says, what she does. Those are moments that you cannot replicate.
No. You haven't been able to replicate it since probably the mid 80s. We're just so polarized as a nation that doing something like this is, you just can't do it. I don't know, I think you could still make a movie like this today.
But you'd have to lose those particular moments, the moments that really show that this child actor could be something more than just, I'm a child. I think that might be a shying away of just trying to, by the studios, of trying to do material that would be difficult. Not, you know, they want to smooth off all the rough edges on things anymore. And they don't want to offend.
And this is the movie that fucking offends. And has some really rough edges too. Yeah. In terms of the difficulty of the complexity of the characters.
And yes, it needs to be there. And I have a feeling, you know, somebody would turn the script into a studio today and they'd get a note back of like, can we make the possessed child more likable when they're possessed? You know, it feels like a really stupid studio note that you would get for the Exorcist today. Yeah.
Well, I want you to hold on to that. And when we come back, hopefully next time, I believe we're doing Speria versus Speria, are we not? Yes, we are. Fucking finally.
I would like to talk to you. Oh, wait. No, no, no, no. What?
I'm sorry. I know you're going to Comic Con. Yeah. And we are recording Sunday of this coming weekend because we have to go see.
Oh, that's right. We are taking a break from spooky season this year. And yes, we did decide we were going to try to do a harthing every week of October this year. But as we are making, yes, we are taking a small break this coming week to discuss.
What could be a shift in a film cinema going culture? Wow. You put a lot on this movie. I'm putting a lot on concert films right now as Beyonce is also.
That's right. Releasing her film as well. We are going to see Taylor Swift's the era's tour film that is being released every time. Everybody's going to see it.
But we will be here next week with. Yes, but first, but when we cut when we do that in the news section, I do want to bring up a couple of really great observations you made tonight about where the exorcist, if you tried to make it now, how would it go across? Hopefully by then, you will have a chance to go see. I'm hoping to.
We will see. And there's two questions in there. I think you will have great answers too. Oh, thank you.
But I think that about wraps us up for this episode. Remember, we are now on iTunes and Google Play. So you can either use the link in the show notes post or head directly there, search and hit subscribe, baby. And if you like what you've been listening to, please leave a positive review because that always helps us connect with new listeners.
As we said just a few moments ago, next time we'll be back to talk Taylor Swift, the era's tour, Swifties, Beyonce's upcoming concert movie as well. I'm actually going to do something bad, but how does it feel so good? And that'll be a great discussion as well. I'm hoping.
And that'll be all right here on the Big Picture podcast. And you have a good night. Like the lady said.