Black fatigue, White genocide — Ep.10 episode artwork

EPISODE · Jun 11, 2025 · 42 MIN

Black fatigue, White genocide — Ep.10

from Wrestling Darkness · host Eric Byler and Sisonke Msimang

Attempts to address racism are fruitless unless we find paths that lead to healing. This is one of many epiphanies I found in reading Sisonke Msimang’s acclaimed memoir, Always Another Country. We talked at length about South Africa and the United States, our two, sister nations each struggling to free themselves from caste systems that date back to colonial times.The emotional heart of Always Another Country is in South Africa, but Sisonke’s revolutionary father and accountant mother raised their three daughters in exile during Apartheid. Born in Zambia, Sisonke also grew up in Canada and Kenya before attending university in the United States.After the fall of Apartheid, Sisonke “returned” to a country she had not yet seen. She engaged in suburban turf battles with white South Africans during the historic presidency of Nelson Mandela, and through them, she learned lessons about herself and her country that are germane to the challenges we now face in the United States.In reflecting on her efforts and encounters in South Africa and in North America, she concludes that once we have created a caste system, it’s difficult to replace it or even change it very much. Rifts created by race and class, she finds, should not supersede our moral responsibility to one another as human beings. She writes that “decisions I make, even the small ones, like extending a hand in friendship, will make a difference in the long run.”In both the memoir and our chat, Sisonke holds herself accountable for wielding power and privilege not unlike that which had been reserved for whites in South Africa not so long ago. In part two of our conversation, I ask Sisonke if there is a “grain of truth” in President Trump’s assertion that there is a “white genocide” in South Africa. To support Wrestling Darkness, please become a subscriber (free or paid) and/or make a tax deductible donation.NOTES: * This episode was recorded before Mr. Trump sent the U.S. military to suppress immigration protests in Los Angeles. * I searched far and wide to find the right guest to follow episode 9 which also discusses race and racism. Of all places, I located Sisonke in Australia, a complete coincidence (I recently returned to the U.S. after six years Down Under).* Rev. Dr. William Barber II is mentioned in the second half of this episode. The interview clip I included is from a work-in-progress documentary called Blood Kin.* The film I mentioned that begins with “Learn how to speak English!” is called 9500 Liberty can be seen here. Get full access to Wrestling Darkness at ericbyler.substack.com/subscribe

Episode metadata supplied by the publisher feed · Published Jun 11, 2025

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Black fatigue, White genocide — Ep.10

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