And now the low post. Welcome to the low post podcast on a Friday morning where, whoo, it has been a week, a month, I don't know, unlike any other that I can remember in the NBA to help us sort it out before I go through the litany of bad that is going on from Naples, Florida, with their old Rivas in the background as always, Bobby Marks and a snazzy striped golf shirt, how are you? I am good. It is not one brand that you don't like.
So I was fully aware before I got dressed for this podcast, what shirt not to wear and it is not that. I didn't want to take grievance from you. Thank you. We might grievance is actually a word that may come up.
We might be talking about the players association and these are the one, Kyrie Irving. Just in the last 24 hours, Miles Bridges currently unsigned, pleaded no contest to domestic violence in California. Baxter Holmes has that story. Hillary Cowthing, the former sports psychologist for the San Antonio Spurs, the alleged gold standard of sports and NBA team culture, sued the Spurs and Josh Primo after she alleges Josh Primo, whose agents deny this and his lawyers deny this, exposed himself to her nine times during team therapy sessions.
And that when she reported it, the Spurs essentially stalled, installed, installed, until they faced her out of the organization. Primo allegedly did this again to other victims in Minnesota, recently in Las Vegas over summer league. Again, these are all allegations allegedly allegedly. And finally, they cut him and we are now in for a very, I don't know what the right word is, Bobby, but something processed in the legal system, Tony Busby, her lawyer, who also represented the Deschaun Watson victims, has said that they want to pursue criminal charges against Josh Primo.
And among the allegations, it hasn't gotten a lot of play in this lawsuit. I read the lawsuit last night. They're accusing the Spurs of quote, turning a blind eye to indications that Primo was seeking sex rather than legitimate therapy. That will be spelled out further, I would imagine, in litigation.
And we are about to embark on this process of who knew what and when the lawsuit only makes clear that Brian Wright, the current general manager of the Spurs according to Ms. Cowthing and her attorneys knew about Primo's behavior. She reported it to him allegedly according to the lawsuit. He was the point person.
It's unclear if anyone above him knew, including our CB for Greg Popovich. And that is going to play out in its own way. But we have to start with Kyrie Irving. Kyrie Irving, boy, oh boy.
Bobby, you had a 10 minute clip on YouTube 72 hours ago, expressing, I think, disbelief that the league and or the Nets had not done anything to punish, I guess, would be the word, Kyrie Irving, after we all know the story by then. And in those 72 hours, Holy Cow has a lot happened. He held what I would describe as a disastrous and bizarre press session with the Nets beat reporters, where he said that the documentary that he promoted and whether he likes it or not, he promoted it, had some quote, unfortunate falsehoods in it, which is like an unfortunate falsehood is when I tell my wife that, oh, yeah, I already went to the grocery store, but I haven't actually gone to the grocery store yet. And unfortunate falsehood is not saying that the idea that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust is a lie.
And he then sparred with reporters, said that he knew the dictionary for some reason. That was relevant and refused to apologize or disavow any of the specifics in the documentary. The Anti-Defamation League returned his money, which is, you know it's bad when the charity is being like, well, we'd rather let your money on fire. And the Nets finally suspended him without pay for five games.
They moved at the union. By the way, Kyrie Irving is on the executive committee of the NBA player's union, which is a gigantic issue that no one is talking about on its own. Why is he there? How is he there?
How is that gonna go forward? They may challenge this on grounds that it's unprecedented for a player to be punished for speech. We'll see what happens. Whatever.
And then Kyrie Irving finally apologized last night. He was the word sorry in an Instagram post. He said that the documentary had false anti-Semitic statements. He takes full responsibility for his actions.
And let's see what else is in here. There was narratives and language about the Jewish race and religion that were untrue and offensive. And he did not, he had no intentions to disrespect any Jewish cultural history regarding the Holocaust or perpetuate any hate, which I guess, I guess I'm reading that as an acknowledgement that the Holocaust happened in Kyrie Irving's opinion. I'm not sure if it addresses the fact that in the book that the movie is based on, the Holocaust is like statistically minimized.
I don't know where Kyrie Irving stands on that is. And at some point, he's going to be asked point by point about what's in this thing. How you feeling today, Bobby? About all this.
This is your former team. And we don't need to go through the history of how they built this current iteration of the team and how it's failing and failed spectacularly. Just how you feeling? I probably feel the same as I did 72 hours ago.
I mean, I look at it as I appreciate the apology from Kyrie Irving. I just think it's a little bit too late. I agree everybody deserves second chances, but I think we're on like chances third and fourth. I was driving home last night and I was reading the press release, or not to press the article that was on ESPN.com.
And what was not in there was January of 2021 when he basically went on hiatus for two weeks, was caught out of party when the COVID protocols were in high alert, was basically fine in a substantial amount of money. And that really led to the James Harden trade. I mean, like that wasn't even in there. It's a good point that I forgot about in talking about how the nets for a hot second had actually built a super team that appeared super and sort of indicating that for all the disaster that's happening now, this front office, which Sean Marks said to helm with it, had done what it set out to do, built a team that looked for all its heads of purpose is like an unbeatable dominant force.
And I left out two things there, number one, they traded for James Harden, not just because they were determined to get a third star, which they were, but because their second star was completely unreliable. And that despite the fact that the Encore product was incredible for 16 games, it was hilariously predictable that the personalities involved would emulate this team. But please continue, I should have made those points more strongly the other day. Yeah, I mean, so that was one thing.
I mean, I just look at the whole big picture of it. I mean, I guess there's a lot of, for me, layers, I'm disappointed, I'm disappointed. Certainly I'm glad that the commissioner finally came out on Thursday. I mean, I didn't know what took so long there.
I mean, I don't know if they were waiting for the nets to basically handle this themselves. Certainly disappointed from the player's association standpoint where here's a guy who's vice president of the union disappointed with the players in general. I mean, we finally got a Robin Lopez retweet last night. I think he's the only player who has basically kind of endorsed, the some type of discipline here.
I made it known on radio during the week, just like, you know, there's, I think there's a certainly a different set of standards here when how we keep or look at different situations here. I think every, you know, if we're gonna talk about, racism and it's all across the board, it's for everything here. And I just look at the Brooklyn situation and I said it, I think Tuesday, like, like one's enough, it's enough. Like here's a guy, you basically, there's a court, there's a, you know, litany of things here.
And here's a player who's gonna be a free agent here. Obviously he's not part of your future or you would have signed him to an extension. I understand it from Joe Siz perspective. Like he's trying to educate him.
I guess that was the word was used on, on get up on Friday morning where like he's trying to, you know, before they took this point, he's trying to educate him here. But I think the worst word and I dealt with it. And I understand people out there saying like, well, you know, it's easy for you to say because you're behind a mic and you're like, calm and you're right. Like the worst word in the front office is desperation.
Like that is the worst word desperation. When I lived through it, I mean, I went through it, you know, we did a lot of desperate things in Brooklyn, trying to save our jobs, you know, when things were where we're back in the corner. And I look at this Brooklyn situation, what's going on there? I'm happy they suspended him.
But I do think there was a period of 72 hours where it was desperation, whether it be the Kyrie Irving situation, whether it be, you know, who knows what happens at Head Coach, what direction they go there here. But I'm at a phase or a point where just like wipe it clean here. Like what's the best for the organization is moving forward without Kyrie Irving. And you'll take your lumps during the year and that will certainly talk about Kevin Duran a little while here.
But eventually like the experiment of these, you know, the two guys together, like it's failed. I mean, I agree, hey, anyone would have signed those two guys in 2019 when the cap space like they were not questioning that. But eventually it runs its course and you have to move on here. And I just feel like Brooklyn is kind of just hanging on.
Hopefully that things will change. When I had Nick Friedell on a couple of days ago to discuss this, what I said was what Kyrie Irving says in the next is going to determine if not everything, almost everything. And I said, if he doesn't point by point disavow the hateful, vile, offensive, false stuff in this documentary, and even his apology, by the way, he says, I agreed with and disagreed with some of the stuff in the documentary. So that, you've got to elaborate on that at some point.
If he doesn't disavow that stuff explicitly, I said, all possibilities are on the table to me. Up to and including, I don't know if they would wave him, send him home, I think he's more mechanically easy, not maybe easy, but I said two days ago that his trade value is radioactive. I don't think anybody is touching him. I don't even think the Lakers would do it.
I said, so I said, I just don't know how you can introduce that at this point to your team. And now, then he talked. And the first thing he said was this press gaggle that was just completely bizarre. And he did the opposite of disavow, what was in the documentary.
And then that suspended him. If you told me today, then he apologized. He finally apologized on Instagram. Why you can't do that with your mouth?
I don't know. But he finally apologized on Instagram, which indicates to me, he has at least some interest in saving his career. Because when that suspension came across, my first thought, your first thought, the first thought of many people who hit my phone was, he may never play in the NBA again. This may be it.
And that may be what he wants. He's acting in such a self-destructive way that maybe he wants this. And so the apology indicates to me that maybe we haven't seen the last of him, the desperation you speak of to salvage this team, the desperation that we lead you to reportedly be close 72 hours ago to hire Ema Odoka coming off a internal scandal that caused him his Celtics job. That hire hasn't happened yet, by the way.
I think that's interesting. I think that's interesting. All that desperation would suggest that maybe we haven't seen the last of him, even on the Brooklyn Nets. I find it hard to imagine.
I guess it's not hard to imagine. People want to win. Anything's hard to imagine. But this, even if you put on your coldest, I see as persona, all I care about is winning games.
Even if you are having it in you to compartmentalize to that degree, winning games gets harder when every game is going to be a circus now. For as long as he's on this team, the T-shirts, the fans and the T-shirts are going to be there, the protests are going to be there, the questions are going to be asked to all of his teammates. I don't necessarily think it's super fair to ask every single player in the NBA to weigh in on high-reerving, but teammates sure, union members, or union executive committee members, sure. And if you told me right now, we never see him playing the NBA again, I wouldn't be, I certainly wouldn't be shocked.
No, I wouldn't be either. I mean, when you work, when you work in a front office, you've got blinders on. I mean, that's the reality of the situation. You have blinders on and you're worried about the now and not what the future is.
Zach, at the end of the day, the best thing for the Nets would be to just bottom out here and just have a fire sale. Because here's your year, and I know that the Rockets can have the right to swap with you this year. The Rockets are in the pole position right now at number one, I don't see that changing. And that could change.
Brooklyn can have a top three pick. Oh, the Rockets, the Rockets, the Rockets could have had Ben Simmons when they traded James Harden, skipping the middleman that was the Nets, or they could have wagered against the Nets. They chose to wager against the Nets, they chose against Ben Simmons, they chose to use the Nets essentially as like a middleman to fleece and holy cow, does all of those wagers look correct. I mean, they are sitting in pole position, they don't have to deal with the Ben Simmons situation.
Ben Simmons is completely untradable when you're talking about a fire sale. So yeah, the Rockets are in good position, I guess. It's like you can't even celebrate being a good position when they're in good position for this reason. But to your point, I think it's over.
It's just over. It's over for this Nets team. I don't see any way that it's salvageable. I don't see any way that they can build a championship contender from the ruins of whatever the hell this is.
I don't even know if they can bring Kyrie back on the team. Sean Marks is apparently speaking now as we're talking about this. I'm reading Nick Fiedel's Twitter feed. Sean Marks says Kyrie's apology last night was a good first step, but the organization wants him to take some more steps, including meeting with Jewish leaders before playing for the Nets again.
Marks said the organization never considered releasing Kyrie. I mean, I would have considered releasing Kyrie, but again, that's easy for me to say. But that's great that the Nets want him to do more than type in Instagram apology, which is the absolute bare minimum that any human being could possibly do. I just think it's over.
It's over and that's it. I just don't understand. I would have a little bit more, I don't know what the word is, belief that if Kyrie was under contract for three more years, or if he had just signed an extension like Kevin Durant did a year ago, I get it. Like I get like why you have invested $190 million.
Zach, he's a free agent in July. This guy is not gonna be here. Like I don't think, hey, I've seen crazier things. Maybe they feel like he's got a free sign because they can't and they'll be under the, over the cap and I can't, I mean, but that's another story.
But like, I just don't understand like the allure of, and like, why is everyone afraid of Kyrie Irving? Well, the allure of Kyrie Irving here. And we'll see how this plays out here. But you know, when the announcement that Brooklyn was close to with E-Mae earlier in the week, you know, everyone was saying, well, look what he didn't Boston, you know, what the plan I said on TV, I said like, there's no Marcus Smarder, Jalen Brown or Robert Williams or Al Horford.
Are they getting a whole all defense level roster to come to Brooklyn with E-Maeodoka? Or if you may have got to see me coming to Brooklyn, are they bringing like seven candidates for the all defense team there at white? Like the greatest charge taker in the NBA? Are they bringing him to?
Because I look at Brooklyn. I mean, Joe Harris, I mean, he's a shell himself and he's still trying to work himself back. Seth Curry is coming off that ankle. Who knows when whoever CTJ Warren, you know, Royce O'Neill, your third best player.
I mean, that's the reality right now. I mean, they had a bench that you line up out there the other night against Chicago of Yudawad and Nobi. You just play well, he is. Yeah, I mean, I think if Ben Simmons had 10% of Sumner's confidence going to the rim, he'd be playing better.
Yeah. So like, I just, I don't see a coach coming in here and all of a sudden fixing. And the Simner, the Simmons thing is, I mean, that's another podcast in itself. So yeah, I agree with you.
I think it's over. I think it's time to, you know, basically, you know, start selling off what you can sell off right now. Well, I think that's why we're gonna talk about Durant because I think I agree with you. And why is everyone so afraid of Kyrieving?
As you ask it, I think there's gotta be two reasons. Number one, they've just sunk so much into this team that there's no going back for this front office and they're not sure that they will be the ones that execute the rebuild you're talking about. Even though to their credit again, they dug out faster and better than anyone could have reasonably expected of the deepest hole in history of the NBA. And the other reason is of course Durant.
And if you think Durant is still tethered to Kyrie Irving, if you still think Durant is a top five player in the NBA, which he has performed like this season, although he doesn't feel quite as impactful somehow, watching the Nets maybe it's just because he's being tainted with the just unpleasantness all around the team, sort of unconsciously by me and others. Looks fine, there's a great player, four years left on his deal. And I don't know that that's the case anymore. It's not like I've spoken to Kevin Durant, but I can tell you that around the Nets, Kyrie Irving's completely checked out performance against the Bulls was very noticed and very disturbing to them, along with obviously the comments.
And Kevin Durant's already asked for a trade. It already happened. And I said over the summer, the idea that by retracting that trade request, I saw a report like this is a full four year commitment, like Kevin Durant to the team, you don't request a trade. And then be like, you know what, not only am I taking that back, let's get married for life.
Where I take it all back, let's till death do us part. That was a joke. And he's already requested a trade. He already requested everybody get fired.
I think that's where this is heading, because as you said, there's just nothing else to do. If this team is dead on arrival, if Ben Simmons is untradable, if Kyrie Irving is untradable, the only move you have is to get everything you can for the one beacon of anything resembling stability on your team. And I think two things have changed since the summer. Number one, their leverages hit rock bottom because of everything we're talking about.
And number two, if they had interest then, in only making a deal that kept them good because of all those picks out the door, because of Simmons, because of Kyrie or whatever, they had interest then in like, we can't just trade for picks, we gotta get good players, we gotta get to jail and Brown, we gotta get this, we gotta get whoever. I think now you pivot the other way and just say, we're done, the picks out the door are a sunk cost. Just like we considered them as sunk costs when we got here, we didn't worry about the optics of giving Boston a top three, a top one pick. We didn't try to win 35 games to give the number eight pick because it's less embarrassing.
We didn't care, we just moved on, pretended it didn't exist. I remember Kenny Atkins had said, it's the elephant in the room, we never talk about it. It's like we don't even talk about it, he told me that. And give us all the picks, all the swaps, all the young guys, just give us everything that we need to move forward.
And I think that closes the door on some packages that were discussed over the summer and opens the door wider to teams who did not have a shot at the rant in the summer. We'll talk about that later. Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN, all in one place, the ESPN app is your home and the fans of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network in service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN and limited as part of your TV package for no additional call.
Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all the ESPN, all in one place. Sign up for activate now. You mentioned Kyrie, there was agitation that from some players I remember Andreic Winala was the loudest.
That Kyrie didn't make the top 75 all time NBA list. Did you ever vote for that? No, I didn't. I didn't, I didn't vote him on my top 75 all time list.
And my reasoning was simple. He was in the process of destroying the Brooklyn Nets franchise after not destroying but undermining the Boston Celtics franchise after stopping talking to his teammates in his last year in Cleveland and requesting a trade out of Cleveland, which is fine, that's his right. You wanna leave Cleveland out? He's not the first, he won't be allowed to request a trade.
Seven time all-star, three time all NBA, not a ton of all NBA appearances. I voted him all NBA two seasons ago. I thought he deserved it. I don't remember what my ballot was the other years.
14,000 points, not a huge amount of points considering all the time he's missed. One championship, arguably the most consequential shot in the history of the NBA. And yet Cleveland did absolutely nothing before LeBron got there. The database of the Celtics and Nets being as good or better without Kyrie in the game and the lineup was kind of gathering steam toward the end there.
And now this, this disaster, this offensive thing, man, he didn't belong on that top 75 list. And I'll say this, like seven time all-star, three time all-NBA with baggage, you go through it. That 14,000 points, that's not like a guaranteed Hall of Famers of May. I know we're getting ahead of ourselves, but I've been thinking like if this is it for him, he never plays again.
Like what is his legacy in the NBA? It's really that shot. It's game five in the finals and he had 41 points. That's a legit, he was legitimately great next to LeBron James.
Everything else is like, okay, like he's an amazing dribbler. He's an amazing finisher on the rim. He made some good commercials in a movie that I guess some people saw. Like I don't really know what it amounts to a lot.
I don't know how much. We had a conversation at dinner on Thursday night. My 13 year old asked me that question, not top 75, but he said dad, Hall of Famer, right? And I said, I don't know.
Now it's too close to me. I know we are. It's just in the muck of it now. But yeah, but you laid it all out there because besides the the the the Bronniers part two back in Cleveland, what he did before Boston years, Brooklyn years, that body of work there, it's certainly suspect.
And as you said though, he was on a Cleveland team and I went to multiple finals. One championship hit the biggest shot, one of the biggest shots in NBA history against probably one of the greatest teams at time. And that story is probably for another day here, but it is an interesting conversation that we'll have whenever the day is that he's done playing. Could be now, could be in a month, could be in six months, could be in five years.
As callous as it sounds to talk about the next domino and the one that I spent all night talking to people with front office people, agents, whatever, is Durant. And the vultures are gonna circle on Durant. Those vultures expect the nets to put on a strong face for a while, to not rush it, to posture probably honestly that no, yes, four years left on this contract, just like over the summer, we got four years left, we control the situation, we're trying to win. We don't wanna do this.
I would guess Durant doesn't wanna just go out and do the trade request again because this is just also ugly. I would guess that he sort of skulks, not skulks, but just sort of sits in the background at least in this regard. Then that's also December 15th and especially January 15th, a whole slew of players become tradable that are critical here. So I don't think this is gonna be fast.
I don't know that it will ever really happen, but I know that the whole league is ready now to re-engage on Durant. And like I said, I think the landscape has changed. So you're the CBA trade guru expert. I've got my list of teams, some of them are duplicates from the summer.
You can start anywhere you want on the Durant trade landscape. Yeah, I mean, I think that as you said, like I don't think there would be a point where he does ask out, I think the schedule itself and it just take care of that. I mean, you look at what they have. I have even looked at the schedule by the character.
Yeah, I mean, here it is. Here it is, here it is, you've got Washington, Charlotte, when you can start with another decimated. Dallas, Nix, Clippers, Lakers, sack, Portland, Memphis, Philly. It's not easy.
It's not an easy schedule here. So when you look at the landscape of the league, right now you've got 34% of the players that can't be traded. You mentioned December 15th, January 15th, that will certainly open up based on players who signed as free agents here. It's interesting, you have to, you go back to the teams that we've talked about during the summer, like Toronto.
As Calciacum's point man, he's like playing like an all-in-b-all player right now. He's playing like a first team all NBA player right now. So that was the name we've talked about. Oh, by the way, Scotty Barnes, they laugh you right off the phone.
Don't even, don't even say the S word. Just call us when you're ready to not say the S word. I don't even think they would trade Cacum. You know, I mean, that would be a tough, that's something you, you know, like that, that wasn't it, that's not a shoe in here.
Well, and the Raptors are one of my teams, obviously for obvious reasons, even if they're not gonna include those guys, they still have all their picks and a bunch of salary that's at least interesting and all the swaps and all that social. Yeah, I mean, they take a call, I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, so Toronto, you're looking at, let's just say we remove Cacum, you're looking at OG and Trent, right, and the picks. I mean, that's kind of like that's the, in any of these Durant deals, though, Zach, I'm just thinking it's like, you gotta get point guard back though, somewhere, right?
Like I just look at, there's not, and that's the problem with the Irving situation is that, like you don't have like a Trey Jones in your waiting in your wings as your second, as your backup, your nice developmental piece, right? There's no point guard there. So that's why I'm looking at it. And I know that Toronto doesn't do that for you.
If I'm looking at Durant, it's like, I need something back, I need a point guard back here, but I mean- You know what, I need a drink. That's what I need, a drink. More than a young point guard, I need to go to the liquor store and get a goddamn crate of whatever my favorite drink is. That's what I need.
I've never really, I've never really two weeks into this season, I've already felt like, we already need all the all-star break. What the hell we thought Toronto? Oh, the point guard, honestly, like, yeah, what you're saying makes sense. At this point, it's just, I just need, I just need whatever helps me recalibrate my team.
And I don't know that I'm that concerned about it. What other teams that pick any team, I was gonna say, what other teams that maybe weren't in the heat of it in the summer might get into it now, or maybe one of those teams that you think has an even better shot now? Well, I mean, I think Phoenix, I think Phoenix is not, certainly, it can't be traded for, but I think they're working more from a position of strength based on everyone. We all thought that, based on what they were going to stumble out of the gate based off that Dow series, certainly the Sarva situation, everybody was not happy, media day, and now they are six and one second, yeah, second, third best team in the NBA.
So I think Phoenix, they've got all these inspiring contracts. All the picks, four picks, swaps. They can get up to Durant's number without including bridges or Aton, or you know, you mean you could, you want to do that or wait until January 15th and say this is what we have, but I think Phoenix would be certainly a team there. You know, it's interesting.
I think your first reaction some fans might have to Phoenix would be like, well, we're six and one, we don't need to do anything. And I think a smart team would actually think the opposite. We're six and one, but we're six and one, but your margin for error in the playoffs is so little. If we have that kind of opportunity with Chris Paul at age 37, you've got to consider it if not executed.
If the idea that they could do it without Aton or bridges, and I'm not even sure that that's, I don't think that that's like Aton, and I don't think they view him as a great piece that they could flip down the road. Bridges is playing out of his mind to start the season. The idea that they could do it without including either of those guys is like, I mean, that's absolutely a no brainer to me, but yeah, don't get back into it. Yeah, I mean, we'll see where this Boston team goes, right?
I mean, I think if they, I mean, they'll be better than a 500 team, but if they feel like he is a missing piece, I would certainly think the Celtics revisit it. You know, I would think Jalen Brown, I don't think that, I don't think that that's a good thought. I think the Celtics even revisit it to be honest with you. I think the Celtics just say we made the finals.
Yeah. Jalen Brown is playing really well. We've just gone through our own organizational trauma. We're not doing this.
By the way, quote from Kevin Durant, it's shoot around today, Brian Lewis from the New York Post tweeted this just now. Durant, I'm not here to judge somebody or talk down on the life or how they feel their views. I just didn't like anything that went on. I felt like it was unnecessary.
I felt like we could have just kept playing basketball and kept quiet as an organization. I don't really know what that means. I mean, basically we just wanted to sweep it away for Joe side, basically pull Kyrie into an office and just reprimand him without anybody knowing. And then again, here we go for another quote, our producer, Dan, is sending me this.
This is this is Durant again, according to Brian Lewis at the New York Post. This is the way the NBA is now, the media, so many outlets now and their stories hit pretty fast now. So that's where all the chaos is coming from. Everybody has an opinion on the situation and we're hearing it nonstop.
The chaos is not coming from the media. The chaos is coming from inside the house. This is like when Durant said before the season, why are you guys going to keep asking me about my trade request? Because you requested a trade, because you're one of the 10 or 12 best players in the entire history of the sport.
And when someone of your caliber, with four years on their contract, that day just signed. As A to be traded and B for the higher ups on the team to be fired, I'm sorry to tell you that that's going to get more coverage than Nick Clackston's pick and roll defense and how that might fit with Ben Simmons. I'm sorry to tell you that the chaos has been completely self created by Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant. And when he was there, James Harden, by quitting on the team, but he's not there anymore.
Like, there's just, I don't know, I just all of this stuff, all these comments are like, can we just play basketball again? Can we just talk about basketball? Even Sean Marks of the day, can we just talk about basketball? Sure, your player just tweeted out a movie that denies the Holocaust.
Sorry that for a week, that's kind of a big deal. Yeah, I mean, we could have talked about basketball if he would handle the press conference last Saturday, the right way, or if maybe the next day would have come out and kind of apologize. All I wanna do is talk about basketball. Yeah, I do too.
I mean, I don't, this is not enjoyable. What were we talking about? The Suns? Yeah, the Suns, cool.
The Suns are really good. Suns are good. Well, I mean, we're kind of going back to some of these, you know, we're talking about going back to New Orleans again, right? Oh, New Orleans.
New Orleans was hesitant to trade Ingram the first time around, if not out in a no on Ingram, which I said at the time, boy, I would, I think I'd be tempted to pull the trigger on that. Now it's like, how about the Lakers pick looks like more valuable than Brandon Ingram. So how about we just give you all the picks, some young guys, some salary matching, which we have in spades. And we have C.J.
McCall and Brandon Ingram, Kevin Durant, Zion Williamson, whatever else is left over. Yeah, that's 150 million bucks for four guys in a small market that's gonna have some tax issues down the road. But I mean, I don't, if I'm New Orleans, you have to think about that. If the cost is just the picks and the swaps and a couple of young guys that are interesting, and I don't have to give a BI, like, am I'm, is my team the title favorite?
Like immediately, I don't know, the NBA's so top two, right now they're there, they're at the top of my list. Same with Memphis. Memphis, oh, I mean, that's, that's an old team, you know, without the Warriors pick top four protected, the Warriors are three and seven or three and six or whatever the hell they are now after another loss in Orlando last night where Steph Curry looked amazing and they still lost. Got the Warriors picked, got all my own picks, got swaps.
Hey, you can't get Jaa, you can't get Bain, you can't get Jaron Jackson Jr. You don't like that? Too bad. Here's everything we got to offer.
Like if I'm Memphis, like, that makes me the championship favorite, maybe I have to think about that. Yeah, I mean, here you go. I mean, Ty Jones, Dylan Brooks and Danny Green and Mike Hicks. Good bye, enjoy Brooklyn.
Yep, that's Joe Johnson one. Joe Johnson one said it's not that bad here about Brooklyn. It's not that bad there. Enjoy.
I forget about that. They should just change that to their slogan. I've said it before, like things are so bad there that they should actually just make that their slogan to counteract the badness of it. They're just gonna be re-prequered.
What about the Warriors? We can't, we can't. Oh my God. We can actually trade that, I'll go right because these extension is downward.
Can't they trade, don't they, who's that? Wiggins. Wiggins can, no, because they added years, they added, even though they're down where they added the, the, the extra years. So he's, you know, they really just have the young kids and Green and Thompson and all that stuff.
I don't know. That stuff. Well, they owe that pick though. And a bunch of these teams would have to amend picks that they owe.
They'd have to get other teams to amend, let me make protections and those other teams would just be sitting there like, I'm what you can give us. I'm sure Daryl said in Philly think, hmm, Tobias. Oh, stop. Stoxy.
They don't pick, they, well, they have one pick to trade, right? But they have to amend like two other picks to one. I don't think that does anything for you. Oh, stop.
Stop. Can I give you, so I have a list of three teams. Yeah. Or do you have another team on hip?
No, no, no, no, go ahead. I have a list of three teams who probably couldn't have gotten in it in the summer that if I'm them because of where I am on my timetable on what I've got and they're changing needs if this ever comes to fruition. And again, remember what I said earlier, it's going to be a while if ever, but I just don't see another endpoint is realistic, honestly. Um, my, my, my kind of favorite is not favorite, but I will tell you this, they're going to call first call I got to make is I got to call the Knicks.
If I'm this team that I'm going to, I'm going to lead a little bit of a lot of suspense up to this. Got to call the Knicks and say, Hey, I owe you a first round pick. It's like top four, team protected top 12 top 10 top eight. We got to make an unprotected so I can trade all the rest of the picks three picks, three swaps, literally every other player on our team except the guy with the node trade clause.
Come home to Washington, play for the wizards, play with Bradley Beale. We don't care that we have no chance to win a championship immediately after trading all of this stuff for you, Kevin Durant, because we have Bradley Beale, you, maybe poor Zinca stays here. Maybe not. We're going absolutely nowhere as a franchise anywhere.
Anyway. So we might as well have some fun and give ourselves a shot at having a top five player for the next few years. Why not? Yeah, why not exactly take Avdia take hot chamara take Johnny Davis who never plays take take Kissberg take Kyle Kuzma take Kissberg's bandana Take whatever take his headband take whatever you want.
No, I want to keep Kuzma I've a Kuzma seems just like a delightful guy to have around I want Kuzma around Well, you got all the money I mean Barton and all that group that will get you there and goodbye. It's not that bad there goodbye You'd have to call New York and hey, by the way, we're gonna get Kevin Durant when you might have a man in that pick What do they care and then the nicks and then the nicks would be like wait a second. Wait a second We have all the pics. We have all we have a million pics our own pics Who poo protected pics from like nine other teams?
We didn't want to trade all that stuff all of it for time of the Mitchell can't trade Mitchell Robinson till January 15th None of our veterans are really gonna be exciting to the Nets like they're not gonna look at you Let's random though. We can flip him for a couple picks down the row But hey you want you want eight picks and four swaps and some salary down the line We got it. Why not we were we got a little embarrassed by whipping on Donna Mitchell even though there was division in Organization about whether that was good or bad and maybe it was good Donna Mitchell's ball in the hell out for Cleveland Which we're gonna talk about shortly. Why not?
I bet you quit in Grimes would be available now. Oh God Can they start going grounds when he comes back because they're starting line-up stinks again And I don't know that he would change that but just like let's try something else. Let's try something else Yeah, I don't know about New York though. I mean I know they have if it wasn't it didn't say New York on the front And they didn't wear it across a bridge.
They have everything all right. I mean that's basically they have everything to offer Do you have a Cinderella team? No, it's just anything. I mean I went through it.
I was looking like Portland There go you got my lesson and talk me through Portland. Yeah, I mean This is all probably this is all after these restrictions are lifted here But you know and they would have to lift protection Oh Chicago top 14 first protected first for the next six years So they had to lift the protection off that but if I'm looking at their roster I mean the shade and sharp off the board does he you know is he off the board and any deals here? They're young prized rookie here and you know, they've got salary fillers, but like, you know Josh Hart guys like that, you know those rotational players. I know I certainly wouldn't want to you know I would put Jeremy Grant deal sure they put their equivalent positionally.
That's an awareness I got $20 million on halfway to the salary. I mean Grant. I mean is this too much is Grant Hart and sharp too much I really do like shade and sharp. Yeah, that's a lot and obviously we're implying that all three picks three swaps Whatever is it involved for?
Yeah, I do I do think they would partly pull Simon's off the table Simon's camp between to when January 15 anyway No, you have to consider the problem with nurk itch with putting nurk itch in is I have no center at all Like I drew you banks and small ball vives like Winslow and trend in waford who hasn't been playing this season Do I need to get claxin back? I mean I find it hard to believe that nets are going to draw a claxin line in the sand Do I need to get do I need to find another center somewhere? Probably do I care necessarily? That's a lot though sharp sharp I love I like what I've seen from sharp so far Grant Grant is you just say I'm getting to rant anyway So I don't care Hart is a good a good starting rotation player for them You have to think about it.
I mean look you paid Damien Lillard all this money He's 30 what 32 something like that is gonna be 36 by the end of this contract is making $60 million So you're in for you're in for whatever the phrases the penny or a pound or a nickel or whatever the hell the phrases You're in for a lot you might as well be in for a lot more that was my other Portland Washington are my are my like maybe didn't have the juice in the summer Yeah, and if I'm to rant honestly Left the Warriors actually don't people are hammering him for leaving the Warriors I get why he left the Warriors as a human being like I completely get it Hitched his wagon to the Kyrie which has been a catastrophic mistake in an attempt to make a franchise his own to win quote Unquote his championship even though he is a two-time finals MVP I don't really just as he always says I'm Kevin Durant like I don't think he needs any sort of validation But I understand the human craving for I want to shake something that's mine or go to a place that I can make mine If I'm him, that's all I care about I don't care about whether I don't care about geography. I don't care about market size I don't care about anything all I care about effort this is put me in a place where I can win with people who are supportive and Available and reliable and fun to be around well. He just said it. Hey, I don't see his way back.
Well, there you go All right, can we switch gears or was there another next thing you want to talk about before a sinkhole opens underneath the Barcly Center Honestly, if you told me that was if producer Dan sent me a text right now There's like a link to it weeping like a sinkhole has been spotted next to the Barcly Center I would be like oh another day for the nets. I said that I wanted to cleanse the palette with something that wasn't this And I think my original plan for this podcast was to talk about like five different Eastern Conference teams that are interesting We'll get to that next week We're gonna talk about one yeah Talk about one because that team is six and one Just beat Boston for the second time in the season and overtime in an absolute thrilling Everything that we do this job for kind of game huge shots big time shots big time blocks dunked the tie the game at the end of regulation All of it the Cleveland Cavaliers fresh off trading the whole kitten kaboodle for Donovan Mitchell has barely been able to play there starting five 28 minutes for garland levert Mitchell Mobley Allen Seventh in offense third in defense again outplaying expectations on defense third in net rating behind only the bucks and the sons who are 13 and one Combined all of their big man combinations Mobley Allen love Allen love Mobley are good to very good Everybody is shooting over 40% from three minutes ridiculous Dean Wade Dean Wade spot starter Dean Wade the starting line up with Dean Wade For garland is plus 19 and 50 minutes plus 23 per hundred possessions Dean Wade is plus 65 for the season That's a top 10 mark Dean Wade for all your accounting. He's been weighed good things happen What do I always say good things happen when Dean Wade is on the floor? They don't even have Ricky Rubio And the vibe the vibe is is just they look They just look like oh you thought we were playing for a couple years from now watch us now They look awesome.
What is struck out to you about the Cavs? I what it's what struck me is well a no garland. You know for basically from the Toronto Yeah, whole season. Yeah, one game and up until you know coming back for that the Boston home game You know the mid the knock on Mitchell was always you know all star, but is he a top 25 player?
You know top 20 player. I mean he's right now He is playing at a high level I think the thing what stuck out for me is that you don't have to be so reliant on Caris Laverte like you're You know what you're gonna get like you're gonna get that game in Boston last Friday where he goes for what 40 plus? And then you're gonna get the night the next night or the two nights later when he's gonna go over nine or four for 12 like It's a nice piece to have You're right Dean Wade. I'm gonna ask Kobe all my want to Dean Wade Jersey for my office like put that baby up here awesome By the way incredible extension for the cast right now lock him up at six or seven million years He's just a good basketball player like I people think I'm joking about him because I have my little dean Wade jingle and he's like the second d-way that he's played for the Cavs and stuff She's a good like good things happen when he's on the floor because he's good at everything He's just a pretty good player at every facet of the game.
Yeah, I mean and you mentioned Ruby out Well, you know, he's he's not on the court. I'll be back eventually here. I just there's just a pot There's just like so much positivity coming out of there. Um, you know, you know, you know, you know the Moby Island combinations, you know But Mitchell has really taken his game, you know to a different level I mean, and there's there's still gonna be nights when you're getting an 11 for 27 like you're still gonna get that here But they fight and they compete and they're in every game and that's all you can ask Mitchell is averaging 31 points on 48 percent shooting 44 from 3 50 percent 52 percent from 2 I think he's played People will say this isn't a high bar and it's not I think he's played the best defense early that I've seen him play probably since his rookie year There were a couple possessions in that Boston game The reason one where he had he had to guard Tatum on switches because they were going after him He denied an entry pass force a miss like was physically botting him up This is the by far the best defense liver has played I've never seen him defend at this level and they're asking him in games like this to defend he defended Tatum for Some of that game and Mobley defended jail and Brown for a lot of that game because Mobley is that versatile and cares Well, Bert held up like he held up.
He played pretty well. He's handsie. He was feisty He's averaging six assists a game which a lot of that was because Garland's out But it's nice to see him sort of engage it more of a facilitator What am I favorite stat at the season talk about unsustainable? He's shooting 48 percent from three and 21 percent from two That's like that's just a little strange Yeah, I mean the vermin to play at the end of I think it was the end of the Friday night game last week here Like there was two like all NBA type defensive plays that you know It was it was a steal and then a three to tie the game here, but I mean Kevin you're gonna get your you know You're good Kevin love games, too I mean that's the you know, it's great like it's amazing how this league works act like three years ago We're talking about Kevin love right like buyout guy.
He was outwardly miserable. Yep miserable member He'd shut to the inbound pass and cost them a game in Toronto remember What he was so angry that sexton was not passing the ball that he stood in the lane in Philadelphia for like nine seconds and raised His hands so that the rest would see that he was committing a three second violation committed a three second violation out of protest I'd never seen that before I've said it before for him to be happy and productive in Cleveland on a good team in 2023 is one of the best and most unlikely stories in the NBA Yeah, I mean I didn't think it would happen I mean I thought he was gonna be the next guy that was gonna be sent away and we were never gonna hear about it He'd be you know He would be signing like them for like Blake Griffin in the Marcus Aldridge, you know for the minimum again here But he's accepted his role and he knows his role But this team is I think this is sustainable I mean of course he's got to stay healthy here and as we said like you only had we've only gotten garland for two games Like that's that's the beauty of this team. He's good man. I love garland.
I love garland Offensively the fit has been absolutely seamless Defensively you haven't felt this kind of lack of size on the perimeter that that everyone kind of feared is there undoing Against the best best teams everyone thought they would be pretty good Although I underestimated them I picked them like seventh in the east and I think they're gonna be better than that in part Because I kind of out of deference to Brooklyn gave Brooklyn a top six but not top three seed Miami I gave a top six seed out of difference to their track record They always seem to prove people wrong there kind of up or down even Philly four and five hardens out for a month We haven't talked about that It's gonna be really interesting by the way to see how Philly plays without harden because they'll probably play faster with a little more Oomphil more zip a little more maxi. Yeah, a little more Harris who's just a spot-up guy now It's gonna be to see sort of how they play and if if the verve and sort of spirit of the team gets a little little feisty Or without harden I don't mean that it's a slight on harden He just wants to walk the ball up and play harden ball which is super effective I just it's just it's just gonna be interesting to see how they look I think you're gonna see you know I know it was only a preseason game, but the preseason game against Brooklyn I think it was the first game of year where you had basically your full dose of Tyree some actually I think that's probably how you are going to see yeah, they're gonna play fast You're basically going to give him the keys, you know as far as to do whatever he wants and You know that's that's what my expectation is here is that he's kind of played a little bit passive with harden You get him be back eventually. I mean you'll get him back and then you get you get a you know You mean you're gonna have to get more from Tobias than more than just a commentary player Melton's been a great fit there using him as like a screener and a roller for hard and that's finishing Let's go back to Cleveland my favorite possession of that cab Celtics came the other day two days ago feels like nine years ago They were I think up one with about 40 seconds left in the game and Mitchell was cooking Mitchell. I hit like two step back three So he was it was it was Mitchell's game Garland brought the ball up This is one of those things.
It just makes you feel like alright seven games in but the spirit of the steam is right Garland brought the ball up and sought Mitchell out so you're cooking this I'm the incumbent all-star guard I don't care like we share this team right now. You're rolling here you go kicks the ball to Mitchell on the right wing The defense kind of loads toward Mitchell including Garland's guy kind of sits not quite at the nail is Garland fades to the left wing but close and I expected Mitchell because he's cooking To just say I don't care how many how you load up on me. I'm cooking I'm done with Mitchell I was brought here for this for this shot for this moment I just made a bunch of these he kicked the ball over to Garland instead and Garland shot I think it missed and Lavert came in and stole an offensive rebound out of our first hands like a gritty tough play I loved everything about that possession that possession just sings out this team feels really good about itself and for now It's unselfish supportive of each other caring about the right stuff. I loved it into your point like there are not any red flags That suggests this is totally unsustainable.
I mean their three point shooting is gonna fall off a little bit They're shooting like 42 percent weight is shooting 56 percent from three. I mentioned Lavert and opponents are only shooting like there They have the fifth lowest. I think opponent 3 point percentage, but they're a good defensive team I don't think that's gonna like skyrocket. I think this is just a good team That's gonna be better than I thought they were I think it's an awesome.
It's an awesome story how they have rebuilt themselves out of out of the LeBron era out of what look like a like not not a great situation It's in the Mitchell trade. I loved it at the time for them. It looks great Yeah, I mean them and Toronto are my two favorite teams to watch. I love watching Toronto I wrote about Toronto today.
They were huge last year and they're even huge right now with this colloco kid who's just plots out This one they put Scottie up point guard with Van Vlito They had a they played a lineup the other day that was Trent Siakam as the two guard basically It doesn't even matter Trent Siakam Bouschee a Chua colloco Like you can argue Bouschee a Chua and colloco are all centers like I understand Bouschee's skinny and she was like six eight That's just crazy time and it works it works They don't know one plays like Toronto and Toronto's good and Scotty Barnes Hey, look the numbers aren't gonna jump off the page He's everything like 16 a game It's taking a little too many like 21 foot long twos and I don't even care because he's starting to stretch his jumper He's starting to stretch his game that kid is gonna be a many time all-star in the NBA Yeah, I mean you look at their depth charts tilted. I mean it's tilted like one way and you would say like well There's no back-up point guard is no back up to but it doesn't matter because how he's using all these guys They're all basically interchangeable Siakam's the backup one guard if Malekai flinner bantan Delano bantan don't play Siakam or Barnes becomes the backup one guard that said man if they just ever got their hands on just pick a Pick a good stabilizer. It's like a tie-is-Jones or a month anymore It's like a super high-level backup one car. I know my thing worse is starting for the Zards that would help them But yeah, they're there they're wildly up and down But when they're rolling like they play the Hawks earlier this week at home and they just ran Atlanta off those steel after six I had to snap today They're averaging 10.8 steals a game no team has average more than 10 and a half since the 1999 sixers They're averaging 26 fast break points 26 number two in the league is at 18.
It's just ridiculous how they play Ridiculous it is I mean it they'll be in the thick of it They'll be in the thick of this top six in the east Oh, I had them as a lock for top six. Yeah, and stir nights with our offense looks looks bad It looks not bad just like there if you make them play in the half court It's a it's a slow down ugly game for them somewhat by design, but still sometimes ugly and unproductive, but yeah, they're good man They're good But Cleveland that win against Boston for two hours or however long it took me to watch that game It was just so nice to blot all this other stuff out. Yeah, watch an awesome basketball game between two awesome teams Yeah, I mean in I mean it is nice, you know, I mean even the other night we saw New Orleans Lakers It was a fun game fun game watch right just stick. I mean talk about a team Matt Ryan I mean you think the Lakers said Brooklyn like a like a fruit basket.
Thank you I mean look Russ off the bench something a lot of us have been calling for for a long time It looks a lot better than Russ and the starting five I saw Russ AD and LeBron have played like single-digit minutes together as a trio the last couple games that's probably the right formula and Those two top guys are so really good like they shouldn't be as bad as they were despite the fact that they still can't shoot I mean nobody on the team can make a three-point shot still yeah, that's it'll be interesting to see how they play this weekend I'm kind of excited to have them normal and stable for a little bit Bobby Marks, what are you working on anything? We should be on the lookout for oh Well, I've been you know the windy Tuesday column, which I really enjoy kind of guess being a like a I guess guest calm this weekly We wrote about the lawyers tax situation and maybe a proposal Maybe you give a little bit of reprieve last week and which will probably get shot down and we'll figure out what we're gonna Write for Tuesday. Maybe the word desperation and how it's a dangerous word. Yeah, that's Wendy's new column It's kind of like a who collective meets meets the traditional column thing.
I'm liking it Yeah, I'm liking it. Um obviously you can listen to the collective usually Tuesdays and Fridays wherever you get your podcast I'm just reading ads for other people's about yeah, we've got an win Then we also got a victor and scoot a little trade guide come out on November 14th So we're gonna put the contenders and the wildcards in there, you know as far as work What teams are looking like you know 1520 games in whoa? Boy those Vegas games when it was when by when by yamma mania Feels like a long time ago sure does the biggest story in the NBA was it was a French kid who's gonna be incredible And now it's now it's not so Bobby Marks invaluable to all of us I can't even I people would would be shocked to know how often I text you cap related questions And you've always been so helpful. It's such a delight to talk to you Thank you for wearing an appropriate shirt today and and have a good weekend down in the sun floor.
Thanks