Bontemps and Fedor

And now the low post welcome to the low post podcast recording Thursday afternoon this season is nigh approaching Tim Bontemps were gonna talk about the Eastern Conference. I love the Mets at didn't go well for the Mets this year from what I know But I love the Mets at I love the spirit Yankee's hat get you kicked off the pod Mets hat makes you an official friend of the podcast I'm a fan of all Mets fans going way back So I have a Mets hat on and I was glad listening to the low post the other day with our pal the machine when you reminded me that You're gonna owe me a hundred dollars, which is great. It's a hundred hours I didn't I forgot that I had so was it delightful the life will think to be reminded of so For people who may not may have forgotten or may have not listen yet to that episode Tim I have a bet a hundred bucks I have the Hawks finishing in the top five in the Eastern Conference very timely subject matter because Inevitably, I'm shorting probably one of the two teams we're gonna talk about on this podcast and maybe or both teams Or both if the Hawks are gonna make the top five while we're on that bulletin board material for Quinn Snyder and Trey young Tim Bontemps says you are a play in team at best sticking up on the bulletin board Did you see any of Atlanta's first preseason? I think only preseason games so far against the fight and Cleveland Cavaliers I admit that I have not had a chance to see that yet I was at three games last four days.

I don't be going to nets none of this man tonight So it doesn't matter the only thing that you missed of importance. Yeah, you have got to Google image Quinn Snyder from that game I'll do it right now. We know that Quinn Snyder makes Batman villain level faces at all times. Yes, the best faces in the NBA his hair is outstanding It's always in the same style.

He is now going with thick bright Atlanta Hawks red lenses or frames on his glasses I see this glasses. You know what tells me? You know what that tells me? He's ready to make Tim Bontemps eat his words and make me a hundred dollars richer anyway I just appreciated that you reminded everyone that you said top six and I would have been fine betting you on top six And then you amended it to top five just to make it harder on yourself at the time So no, I appreciate the whole recollection of it Some of us believe in Trey young and Johnny Murray and some about some of us think they're overrated and you know frankly play in Superstars you can fall into whatever cap you want.

We'll see what happens It'll be fun to follow so here's the theme of our Eastern Conference podcast And there are two teams in the east that we have not talked about at all really as basketball teams We have talked about them as would be trade partners trade Engagers and they are both massively important entities historically and presently in Eastern Conference and those are the Miami Heat who didn't trade for Bradley Beale Didn't slash we're not given a chance to slash who the hell knows what happened did not trade for Damien Lillard then did not trade for Drew Holliday right after not trading for Damien Lillard watch Drew Holliday go to the Boston Celtics watch Damien Lillard go to the Milwaukee Bucks watch Max Drew's go to the Cleveland Cavaliers watch game Vincent go to Los Angeles Lakers That's a whole bucket of oh for the Miami Heat the Philadelphia 76ers still have not traded James Harden James Harden still has not appeared in a preseason game nor is Joellen be they've played two preseason games already as a tater Nick Nurse I believe said yesterday after another preseason loss to paint and printed in the Boston Celtics that It's possible slash hoped for that both will appear on Monday night at Barclay Center against the Brooklyn Nets Is that correct? I asked Nick before the game once it was said they were not going to play if it was a fair Expectation if James and Jo I would play in Brooklyn on Monday a few days later Nick said that's probably a fair way to describe it But we're going to have a side bet. I don't know if I would put money on it. Oh, okay So I'm gonna bet right now James Harden is not playing Monday at the Barclays Center I don't know if he's going to play or not.

I I also like Nick nurse will not be betting on it I feel a lot better betting on the Hawks not being in the top five than I do betting on James Harden playing in a preseason game Let's be clear not betting on the Hawks you're betting against the Hawks against Trey young against Quincy I feel good betting against them being in the I feel good betting against them in the top five Much better about betting against them in the top five I do about James Harden being in the starting five on Monday This is the most irrational I've ever been about a team I've no reason really to be this off to this about the Hawks I'm now just having fun being this up now. I have something to root for I really have a root for now I'm invested. Oh god the Hawks are down five to Orlando in the fourth quarter I got flip over and see what heroics DeAndre Hunter has in his bag Look these teams are running out of time to make trades before the season It's time to actually talk about them as basketball teams that I want to start with Miami And I mentioned all the guys I didn't get and all the guys that left including two starters I Can't remember a team that had a more confusing single season than my slash post season than Miami just had and has a harder to parse Four years now behind them in the Jimmy Butler era It's why if you told me they won 42 games this year and barely squeaking to the play internment just like they did last year I'd be like that if you told me they somehow won 51 and were the third seed. I'd say okay To review last season the heat won 44 games lost to the Hawks the fight and Hawks in the play internment looked Like they were drowning in their own offensive incompetence in a must-win doer die game against the freaking bulls We're about three minutes away.

We're about three minutes away from losing a home game to the bulls. Do I make the playoffs? Literally, I was texting Someone who knows people on the heat being like are they ever gonna score a basket again? Like this is incredible and then next to one crazy and then they made the NBA finals in the regular season the heat were 26th in offense and 9th in defense Their point differential overall for the season was negative 26 They were the third team in the history of the NBA and the first since the 1950s to make the NBA finals with a negative point differential I mean that is the definition of an anomalous borderline black swan event In the playoffs their offensive rating rose from 1 12.3 in the regular season to 1 13.8 You would think it was higher like that's still not good That would have ranked 18th in the regular season and the reason they got to the finals is if you parse their offensive rating by series Even this team was inexplicable series to series against the Bucks 1 19 Shooting 45% from 3 against the Knicks 1 12 shooting 30% from 3 and yet able to survive because the Knicks were even worse on offense Against the Celtics shoot 1 17 43% from 3.

Yeah, we're in the finals We almost blew a 3-0 lead that Jason Tatum's main is ankle We win game seven heroes among us in the finals down to 105 34% from 3 in the last four seasons Their average win total Projected for 82 games to them or 72 game seasons is just 48 wins They have like these mediocre 44 win campaigns then they had the year They were the one seed of two two scenes ago with 53 wins 48 and 34 is their average record in the Jimmy Butler era I have no idea what to make of this team no earthly idea Tyler hero is back healthy playing pretty well in the preseason Josh Richardson is back. I think we may have a starting point guard competition between Josh Richardson and Kyle Lowry Which sounds crazy, but I think that's gonna be a thing Thomas Bryant is now their backup center Duncan Robinson is still here We're gonna see where Jaime Hakas and hit with high Smith and Nicole Yovich fit in the rotation We've gotten some clues in the regular season. They're over under is only 44 and a half So Vegas has them pegged a little bit below their average for the last four seasons I just don't even I don't even know I don't there's no walkie and Boston and the gap between them and everyone else has only gotten bigger Which is insane because we're talking about the team that beat them both in the playoffs. What do you expect from the heat?

That's a good question and it's gonna be one of the two points It's gonna be one of the more interesting questions in the Eastern Conference this year because like you said It is very hard to know which version of the heat is the real version I think we're gonna see somewhere in between what the heat ties in the heat flows I don't think they were a team that should have been fighting for You know should have been in the playing tournament last year there as you pointed out correctly They're off ends could never get out of gear really all season And I got out of gear for eight games for eight wins. I know that's it I expect them to be a little better on offense this year But look they there's a reason they were so interested in trading for Damian Lillard And it's not just the obvious that Damian Lillard is awesome and was a seamless fit for their team It was that you looked at their team and what was the problem They didn't have a guy you could constantly rely on to give you huge production from a scoring standpoint for as good as Jimmy is That's not he's not gonna give you 30 points a night That's not what he's gonna do same with Bambaya both fantastic players to terrific defenders do all sorts of different things with the ball But are not guys are gonna consistently give you 25 30 points a night Damian Lillard is you know Obviously one of the best scores ever and one of the best scores in the league right now And would have perfectly fit with what they need and what they're gonna do so I Think there's a reason they were trying to do that obviously they were disappointed that they were not able to do that as you said It's not really worth going down the road of why that didn't happen at this point But I think when you look at this group overall you go back to last season you talk about how bad How the highs and lows of their offense that really came down to gave Vincent and Max Drew's in particular were terrible shooting the ball The entire regular season and then they and Taylor Barton in different series got in tandem decently hot in the playoffs And that was what lifted Miami to the finals I think playing Duncan Robinson more this year will juice their offense a good amount I expect him to shoot pretty well. I do think that Jimmy and Bamb will be consistent I think Tyler hero will be a very good score for them on the wing I expect him to get better than he did was last year. He is obviously not a perfect player He has his flaws but he's a very good offensive player and I just think in general betting on Eric Spolstra and betting on their Infrastructure, I think they'll be in the top six and they won't be in the play in this year But at the same time They are not a team that I look at right now and see them as a serious threat to beat the Celtics or beat the box Or maybe even be able to beat teams like the nicks or calves in a playoff series because I think ultimately The reason they were trying to get Dame has not been fixed and their offense is not good enough for me to count on them to win a series Like that in the playoffs now they have several months to make a trade Maybe they'll make some upgrades during the season.

Maybe some of these guys will take significant steps forward Jaime Haka's has a groin strain, but the heat have been incredibly impressed with him so far I think I think he's got a chance to immediately play for them and have a role You know collari has looked good by all accounts early on like you said I don't think I'm not sure the expectation was he was gonna start I think you might start now So we'll in you know Tyler here I was talking a lot about being motivated coming in after a summer where his name was out there in all sorts of trade discussions publicly, so I Think betting against the heat has proven over time to be a fool's Aaron So I would say I'm bullish on them being in the top six But like you said if you're looking at it in the macro terms and you're the Miami Heat who basically look at things as winning a championship Or not I don't see them as a team that you can pencil in as being a likely threat to make the conference finals And so they have work to do if they want to get to the level there a custom to between now and then And yet you Tim Bontos Hater of the Elena Hawks just said that you don't consider the Miami Heat a threat to make the conference finals I understand that the two juggernauts in the East have completely revamped their teams and probably appear better On paper where at least in Milwaukee's case has definitely addressed the biggest weakness of their team not just on paper in reality Yeah, I understand that the landscape is different the heat have made the team that you just said is an unlikely challenge for the conference finals Has been in the conference finals in three of the last four seasons They've been in the NBA finals in two of the last four seasons in another one where one shot away from a third finals in four seasons Which is a long way of saying I think this team is Demonstrably a better playoff team than a regular season team I don't think there's any question about that I don't as weird as their roller coaster to the finals was last year Compared to what they did over the full dose a of 82 games I They are again It's not like they've never won more than 53 games in this four year stretch They've only won the equivalent of more than 49 one time and yet they keep doing this in the plastic They keep doing it. They're telling us that something about the way they play the way Jimmy and Bam play both ends of the floor The way Eric Spolster coaches is better equipped for postseason success than a regular season success if they get in I mean They think I don't even think they care if like Freaking prime Lulule Sindor and Oscar Robinson walk through that door They are not scared of the Milwaukee box. They think and punked in Milwaukee box anytime anyplace even though the bucks punk them out of the 2021 playoffs They're not scared of the Celtics. They're not scared of anybody And I do think the more I look at this team I mentioned they're over under is 44 and a half and I waffled a little bit when I had pelting on the other day I'm taking the over I think they're a little better than maybe people think because all the focus and we've been guilty of it too has been on Trade trade trade all too bad.

They have to bring Tyler hero back these starters left the door They actually are kind of deep. They're not sexy deep They still like you said haven't gotten a big-time score to even just like a big-time number code number two guy along with BAM I guess Tyler hero coming back as that guy And the hero thing so they didn't trade them. They didn't they didn't really go for Bradley Beale I think that was a vote of confidence in Tyler here I think from what I heard the heat looked at that situation and said we don't think Bradley Beale who's what seven years older than Tyler Hero is 30 million dollars better than Tyler hero going for we just don't think the upgrade is worth it the day in situation was They would have traded for David Liller if they'd gotten the chance I'm not sure they made their best offer. I'm not sure they're given opportunity to make their best offer I don't care to revisit it Drew Holliday came and went so fast I'm not even sure what the specific dialogue was between the two teams but like Tyler heroes good and If you project their starting five is let's say for now Lowry hero butler love because I do think they'll make Kevin love sort of the token starter at the four not token That's not fair they can start her at the four and BAM and then off the bench Joshua should say maybe that becomes Kyle Lowry at some point don't get Robinson back in the rotation Caleb Martin fixture Thomas Bryant at backup center and then you've got some combination of hockey as high Smith And I think we'll see Yovitch place of four alongside BAM specifically because of his shooting and BAM's ability to protect him on defense, that's like a decent amount of guys and Sometimes they're not gonna get that deep because I think they're gonna have to stagger Jimmy and BAM as much as possible in games It really matter.

It's like not it's not like it's a pretty solid team And just the last sort of bulwark of that is if you look at just hero butler BAM and Caleb Martin that force him was plus 10 per 100 possessions in a regular season and about that good in the playoffs plus 100 points in 520 minutes and just the hero butler BAM trio had a similar sort of fat number like that works And that makes Kevin loves minutes kind of the rickety part of their starting five like we'll see how much he's able to play But that's I think that's a solid team. I don't know what what it translates to in terms of postseason success I think they're gonna win more than 44 and a half games. Yeah, I would guess that they do too I would take the over I would bet on Eric Spolstra and I would bet on their infrastructure and like I said They do have some treating young guys They're high on and they are excited about having Josh Richardson back and like look I think they will have an up depth cobble together that they'll be a pretty good team and again like I said last year If you go back and look I think I don't remember exactly what Max Pearson gave Vincent shot But they shot poorly all season now as a huge part of why their offense was just really terrible for most of the season So I do think having up in Robinson. They were a lot heroes a really good shooter They'll their offense will be better than 26 It might not be 10th, but I bet it's in teens or the low 20s at the worst and it won't be in the bottom five And so they probably will be a pretty solid team But again, I think when you look at where the east is compared to the early part of this decade It's in the top end is much stronger When he got to the conference finals two years ago, they avoided playing Milwaukee or Boston until then when I got there in the bubble in 2020, obviously that was a bit of a unique circumstance all the way around So they definitely are a better playoff team than a better regular season team Jimmy Butler is in the top five guys who would want to have in a playoff series Eric's bolster is pretty much I think unequivocally considered the best coach in league at this point So you have all the pieces in place to make the kind of run that they have in the past and maybe they will surprise again But I just think ultimately especially with the moves that Boston has made I think the Celtics are the clear favorites to me to win the east and win the title And I think with name in Milwaukee even though I have some questions about their team I do think as you said it does solve the biggest issue They had particularly in that Miami series and they've had in the past Which is they don't really have the best theory of the case on offense late in games now the theory is given about the game And it's same time.

That's a pretty good theory proven over time So I think the challenge is much higher for Miami this year to get there without a deal But I do think like you said ultimately I think they're gonna be better and look at the end of the day Yes, the heat didn't get damey and vote But the heat and I think rightly are just waiting for the next guy to come along because they're always going to be a team You can argue the two teams everybody's always going to want to play for are the heat and the Lakers And so the heat are waiting for the next guy to come along We'll see who it is But at some point they will get one of these guys to pair with their guys They have now and they will be right in the mix like they have been and we'll see if that happens over the next three months Or if it takes till next summer or if it takes longer than that I want to talk about hero You know, I said during the playoffs As they put together win after win after win Then I thought they were they were had become better off without Tyler hero I certainly don't think they would have made the finals Tyler hero was healthy I will say that Should not be pretty similar Tyler hero as a player I think he's a very good player But I think he has flaws and playoffs that could be exploited I said when rumors that he could maybe return at some point started bubbling up I said I kind of think they're better off for now without reintroducing that I was not alone and saying that lots of people said it was not like a scorcher from the low post podcast However, it did get back to a lot of people within the heap that I among others had said that And I got some pushback let's say and what I said during that time was certain kind of unique things unusual things happened during that playoff run that Um, rendered Tyler hero's absence less relevant than it might otherwise have been Uh, and and made it optimal that the heat could replace him with better defensive players Since if you if you play hero with love, that's two big weak spots if you play hero with robinson Which is something they've avoided here and there at least that's two big weak spots And the things that happened where as you said all of their shooters went crazy So there's 50% of what Tyler hero brings to the table taking care of by guys who are all significantly better defensive players than him Jimmy butler decided for about a two-thirds of the playoffs I can carry like a 38 percent usage rate and do it efficiently and not give back anything on defense So absorbing like an extra half of players extra half of starters usage rate There's like 30 more of Tyler hero's value sort of sopped up by other people and all of a sudden what he does is not as necessary And what he doesn't do the lat his lat his weaknesses on defense are no longer present It I think it made sense it like that particular team for that particular span of time Didn't really need Tyler hero. That's not to say the Miami heat franchise and it was never to say That Miami heat franchise doesn't need Tyler hero or that Tyler hero is not good Tyler hero is very good I think he's motivated and pissed off and is gonna have a good season And this team with shrews gone and vince gone and richardson in and young guys coming in who do not approve and track records With jimmy butler getting older and if he's gonna have that kind of usage rate in the playoffs He needs some other people to help him along the first 82 games This team needs Tyler hero And they also need him to rehabilitate his trade value a little bit and I think he's gonna have a good year And I think he's like a good I think he's a solid basketball where my number one not complaint other than the defense was I've always said this I want him to be a little less Hey, I want to run 40 pick and rolls a game and be the guy and shoot mid-range numbers And it's cool that he can do that and he's okay at it I want him to be a little bit more clay Thompson because he is an absolute knockdown elite shooter off the catch And even off the dribble And I do feel like he passes up pretty good threes When he's bobbing and weaving behind bam because he wants to do other stuff And if he just took three or four shots of game that are twos and made them threes I think that's better for him and I think that's better for the heat And that's my Tyler hero spiel Yeah, look Tyler here's a nice player the heat also were better off without him in the playoffs last year and they're better off the year Before in the conference finals when they played the Celtics and he got her in that series And at the end of the day when you're in the playoffs Thing i've really come to believe more than anything over the past several years Is the biggest thing you can do to enhance your chances of success is to avoid having any significant weaknesses at either end of the court Tyler is a very bad defensive player. There's like there's like one team maybe well that you can do that Yes, that's true But he's a very bad defensive player and is a target for the elite teams to go after like that's just the way it is now Maybe if he was out there things would have gone differently in The series in the finals last year or maybe they would have just went all the way through the playoffs and he would have been out there And it would have been fine, but I again both things can be true You can be a guy that has a weakness that causes you problems in the playoffs and also be a very talented player who helps you win a lot of regular season games I mean He said he said more than sure particularly in the bubble in the bubble. He was great.

Look on the hook elected We talk a lot about the minus of bonus right when it brian loves the minus of bonus We talk about this all the time. So bonus is a terrific player There's a bit of a tangent but so bonus is a terrific player But he has significant weaknesses that come up in the playoffs that are big reason why his teams are gone out of the first round When he and he's consistently been a very productive player a very good player a deserving all-in-b-a player Like so both things can be true. I mean Tyler here Averaged 25 and 4 and shot 38 percent from pretty much here in eight attempts a game That's a very good player. They also had a per of 15 or 14 6 which is average So, you know, which and again I know pr is not quite the same stat in in the ways that it was in the past But I do think that sort of exemplifies the yin and the yang to what he provides to a team Now when we're talking right now about the heat for the next 82 games Yeah, I think Tyler here is going to be a really valuable player and he's going to help them win a lot of games But the fact that Tyler hero is a critical part of what they're doing and he is a critical part deservedly So unless he takes really significant steps forward if he's your third best player I don't think you're sealing is that high so that and that's why the heat were quite ready Totally justifiably to turn him into Damien Lillard or some other player and by the way I wouldn't to trade it Tyler here on the back of your Bradley Beale Because I don't think if I'm a heat I would have cashed in my chips to trade for Bradley Beale When they have other guys that can come down the road that they could get later who will have I think be better players than Bradley Beale But that's the benefit that the heat have that a lot of other teams don't and so in the meantime They're gonna like you said they're betting on Tyler being better and motivated this year And look maybe Tyler will average 25 and 6 this year and shoot 41 percent from three and like you said Maybe he takes a couple less mid-range jumpers a game and gets his 3.8 even higher and is an all-star this year like maybe I'll take another step forward.

He's so super young. He's a really talented player But at the same time I do think part of the reason I am skeptical about their ultimate ceiling is if you're relying on him He has real flaws that elite teams in the playoffs can exploit Sure as do many Chlog guards and perimeter players and you know, that's people said that about your kitchen till it wasn't true anymore, right? But I'll say look the heat the heat look at everything from the prism of winning a title or bust, right? They're not they're not in the business of Getting to the second round of the playoffs or get into the conference finals That's not they don't view that as a successful season even if people think that it should be right even last year They're the eighth seed to make the finals not that they didn't enjoy the run last year, but I think they're actually disagree with you I think they're I think they're very proud of their finals run like they're proud I'm not saying they're not and they think they consider the season a success Well, maybe I I obviously they're proud of making the finals and they're proud of making the finals in the bubble But their standard is trying to win a fourth title So I'm looking at this to the prism of is this group good enough to get there and if not, why not?

And that so that's why that's why I'm viewing it that way I think the idea of hero on this team is if at go time We have butler we have bam. We have martin And whatever defensive point guard you want josh richardson who's super long for the position and Kyle lauer He's just a human fire hydrant with arms and legs and you can't move him Right, we can we can give him enough coverage that it's not that damaging and his offense will sing for us We'll see I'm going over on 44 and a half and I have like I thought milwaukee was gonna Wipe them out in the playoffs last year and that they were my pick to win the title the whole year The heat we're not good the whole year Like the heat were down 20 points in the fourth quarter of game four and game five They had jimmy butler and bamadabao on the bench for the first four minutes of game five down 16 And the box didn't score for the first five minutes of the quarter. I was at the game I will never forget being at the game It was one of the strangest games of ever been at it was unbelievable and jon has got hurt and the first and jon has got hurt And kala martin shot 70 percent in the conference. I hear about it It was it was the strangest it was the strangest most remarkable run They could have but I will maximize what they were I will I will never I think we say I will never count them out of a series They heat if they're healthy and part of their obstacle is that jimmy butler's gonna miss 20 games every year And then they're gonna have to tread water in those games in a regular season if they're in the playoffs healthy I am never going to do the thing where you pick a series and it's like oh it's for their team for two for their team You just move on.

You know, you're like, this is this is a move on Like nothing they do will surprise me at this point Their core guys are that good and that tough and that rock solid and I think this team It feels disappointing like they've taken a big step back and they're in trouble And yes, the two juggernauts at the top of upgrade. I think this seems pretty good Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy Please sit and sit play post taste view And enjoy via rail love the way This episode is brought to you by fed axe These days the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the track at a corporate lunch The real power move is leveling up your business with fed axe intelligence And accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks Level up your business with fed axe the new power move Let's talk about the other team that has Taken a step somewhere. I don't know maybe into dog poop the 76ers We mentioned before uh, we'll see if james harden plays on monday in brooklyn in the preseason game if he does not I think that's um, time to time to raise some alarm bells They're not already screaming loud that this could become an issue um The team now has um a whole bunch of new guys on the bench kelly ubre pat beverly Danny green is here again and playing kind of well for a guy who looks like his career might be sliding away from him Um mobamba's here jade and springer's a year older quarkmas is back in the Quarken around in the mix again paul reed is now cemented in as the backup center doc rivers favorite backup center paul reed And he's gonna play alongside you while and beat according to the nurse here and there okay Paul reed is three for 20 on threes for his career over three in the post-season.

We'll see um the we're again like This team with james hard and trying hard For a coach that he ultimately didn't want to be coached by anymore Was up three two with a home game against boston in the in the conference semis to make its first conference final since the alan That they were winning the game with six minutes to go I know and then jolyn beat then they forgot jolyn beat was on the team Well, let me just jolyn beat forgot that he was on the team Uh, he might have left the building he might have gone to the bathroom. I have no idea what happened My my point is Like it's like it's only the sixers like yes milwaukee is Different and probably better team. Yes boston is a different and probably better team If the sixers were just functional and normal and james harden was on the team in a fully engaged manner Yeah, you might slot them third in the east to start with and say hey, you know, they've got a lot of questions to answer Why is jolyn beat always hurting a playoffs? Why is this production not the same james harden had two good playoff games out of 11 and blah blah blah like if this were a normal team You would say hey, there's no reason why they're not an inner circle championship contender Like they might not they might be underdogs in a seven-game series against both those teams But not underdogs where it would be like a whale of an upset for them to win They're like a great team and now you have to sit here and project two different teams The one with james harden on it playing hard three really the dream one with james harden on it playing hard The one with james harden on it not playing that hard And I don't even know if he's even playing in that scenario And then the one where he doesn't play at all and they have to until they trade him Just have a zero from him and probably promote the anthony of elton into the starting five revamp their bench and all of that How are you thinking about this team and like how good are they if they do have to go through 30 40 whatever games with harden as a zero And not having traded him yet.

Well, there's a whole lot to say about the sixers But let's start with the last part. I think there's two paths for the sixers and james hard I think one path is he plays and is engaged and plays for them I think the other is he doesn't I think if there's a some scenario where it's anything like the infamous Sacramento game in brooklyn or the games after the first Game he played that last year in Houston before he got traded to the nets. I suspect he'll just be sent home I don't think your best. Yeah, so there's not to me.

It's either one it's either he's good and engaged or he's not there So I think those are the two paths now as far as where the sixers stand I was with them last week in four colons Colorado Colorado state where they went to training camp and it was very strange Because the whole time both at media day and then in Colorado everyone was just waiting for the other shooter drop And for something weird to happen with james or some you know some controversy to erupt and As of now on thursday afternoon on the 12th of october, there's been none of that. He's been around the team for over a week He's been totally engaged. He looks really good in everything i've seen the limited time I've seen him on the court working out everything internally talking to people with the sixers. He looks great He's in great shape looks engaged, but nobody's smiling smiling a lot.

Yeah, he is and not blockers blockers clean Not talking to their lorry, but otherwise engaged and look no, but nobody knows how long that's going to last or what's going to happen Or whether he's gonna play whether he's gonna play on monday again like back to that, right? Like is he going to play? I don't know maybe so it's an incredibly strange circumstance to look at this team and not know if one of the pillars of the team Is going to actually be on the court or not now if you look at this group overall I think there's a lot of similarities between this team and the team knick nurse took over in Toronto A team that when he took over had repeatedly failed in the playoffs often in embarrassing fashion As you know as a Toronto partisan as you are They had all sorts of disappointing playoff exits La Pronto history to overcome La Pronto And they had Kawhi Leonard there who when it nurse got the job and then they traded for Kawhi They had no idea of Kawhi Leonard was going to play or what he would look like or whether he would stay at home Or whatever was going to happen because he wanted to also ironically be on the Clippers like James Arden And you looked at the whole situation and it was like well The rapper stuck this swing. They sort of have this year to go for it We'll see what happens and at that time That was the year I started ESPN and the two teams were picked to be at the top of the east were The Sixers with Ben Simmons and Joel and B to just got to the second round with those guys basically in the first playoff run And the Celtics who had Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward and Jason Taylor Brown and Alport for their supposed to dominate everybody And obviously by the end of that season the two best teams were walking in Toronto playing in the conference finals and Toronto Wanna beat them and win the championship we could do a two-hour what if on the Gordon Hayward season opening leg injury and Cleveland We will not do that now.

Yeah, that was the year That was the year before but But I'm saying like I think about that and how that changed the dynamics of the Celtics in the entire eastern conference Like once a week, I'll just be laying a bad thing about Gordon Hayward Which is I say it is not It's a strange thing to say but I know what you mean because it is one of the more important moments of the past 10 or 15 years in the NBA and it doesn't get talked about enough but that all being said To your point you put all that together the Sixers have a ton of talent They have a coaching knickers who's a proven tactician in the playoffs who might be able to boost them in some ways Where they haven't been able to get forward in the past. They've got the MVP of the league They've got the guy led the league in assists last year They've got Tyrese Maxie who looks like he could be a well I mean assuming James Harden is playing in this scenario They've got uh Tyrese Maxie who certainly looks incredible early in the preseason I think he's got a chance to be an all-star this year They've got versatile defensive players around him They've got Tobias Heres is a very solid two-way player on the wing now It's become a pretty solid defensive player after struggling that and that part of his game earlier in his career They have a really good deep team that would be right there in the mix at the top of the east If as you said you knew James Harden was going to be playing But instead it's the Sixers who are constantly in an absolute state of chaos And they are in a state of chaos again except right now It's this frozen animation state of chaos where everyone's just sort of waiting for the train to go off the tracks And to this point it hasn't and maybe it just won't I don't know but I don't think James Harden is getting traded to the Clippers anytime soon I don't think he's getting traded anywhere anytime soon And so as long as he's on the team he's sort of has two choices One is to play and be engaged and one is to do something else and go home And I don't know which way this is gonna go At least the white party was awesome. Look like a lot of fun Well, that's the other weird part about this is like he gets along with I mean the vast majority of the people around the team He's fine with so it just was the oddest It was very odd being around there for the past week and a half because It's just it's just been a lot of strange vibes, but then again, it's six or so. Everything is strange Oh, it's but didn't get the invite to the white party.

Maybe next year. Maybe next year Um Only the sixers that really should just become their slow. By the way those the sixers You one could argue and in fact, I will now argue they don't have a signature playoff series win Series win not individual game win series win since they made the finals without an everson What what give you a memorable playoff series that they've won in the last time? I mean the most memorable playoff series they've won was in Derek Rosegater.

It doesn't count Derek Rose Even a spencer hot with Spencer Hawes even on the team. I'm making that up even Spencer Hawes was not on the team Made out of another team even Evan Turner and Drew Holliday. No, we would have plugged we're not winning that playoff series of Derek Rosegater Game one. No, but that's what I mean that's this year is when they happen this year And it's partly because they're a high seat every year and it's partly what we're really seeing is they haven't gotten over the hump in the second round It's just a parade of like Bad nets bad wizards heat without you pre Jimmy Butler and the sixers had you It's just like a just a forget last year the nets were like triple-teeding and beat at half court because they had no other answer for him You know like I don't know, but I don't know the signature moments of their playoff series wins the last few years are Joelle having unfortunate injuries I'm hurting his knee last year when cam Johnson fell into him in Brooklyn We'll pass Cal hit him in the face with an elbow in Garbage time in garbage did not almost it was definitely in garbage time in Toronto like those are the signature moments from their playoff series victories the past few years Joellen beat regular season career 27.7 rebounds three and a half assists three and a half turnovers 50% shooting 34% on threes 54% on twos 27.9 player efficiency rating Joellen beat in the playoffs 24 points a game 11 rebounds 2.8 assists 3.6 turnovers 46% shooting 28% on threes 51% on twos 21.9 P.E.R.

27.9 regular season 21.9 playoffs health is played a large part of that He also just hasn't played well enough. Here's what the Sixers have going for them in this non-harden universe I would assume they start the season maxi melton tucker Harris in beat I think there's a chance at some point in the season the PJ Tucker starting thing becomes a discussion if he just is zero on offense again Obviously we know what he can do defensively guys like that are generally better use the starters because they get the guard the best players on the other team We'll see off the bench that leaves me. I'm assuming I got a stagger maxi and embed in most games Then I'm just sort of juggling your Beverly's houses paul reads and then whoever out of uber a green whatever wins minutes and maybe it changes Night tonight. That's a solid team last season maxi and bead on the floor harden off the floor if you look up these numbers 123 points per 100 possessions 110.6 allowed plus 12 in about almost 500 minutes That's your reason for optimism right there those two guys with supporting talent around them might be just damn good enough To not just keep you afloat until the harden thing resolves But to actually make you maintain a level of like really goodness while that happens And this is my favorite tyreese maxi stat and I would do it to this dude is poised for something Like all stars completely on the table like he could average 25 a game like you said With james harden on the floor Tyreese maxi ran 15 picking rolls per 100 possessions It's like a like a good like a good role player kind of thing secondary wing whatever I don't have the comps in front of me The entree might do that.

I don't know second the entree hunter mentioned Uh with james harden on the bench So it's 15 on the floor with james harden on the bench 58 picking rolls per 100 possessions That's like tre young chris paul almost luka level of volume And he held up more than well at that level of volume as I've said before I that split is Unusual to the point of being a total anomaly. There is not a player who? Whose role changes that dramatically based simply on the presence or absence of a teammate I think he's ready for 58 picking rolls per 100 possessions as long as i'm bead is the screener i'm like 40 of them Um He's the best thing the sixers have going for them now tomorrow probably in five years is tyree's maxi Look, I think if you told me right now the james harden was banished and not on the team this year I would 100 percent guarantee tyre's maxi's making the all-star team if he was healthy I think dewolam bead has been on record is saying he would be motivated to make tyre's maxi all-star this year I don't think it'd be a small part in that but it's also as you said I think tyre's maxi is ready to do that and as you said he is maybe the fastest guy in the league with the ball and sands Or either way but especially with the ball and sands might be the faster in the air and fox He just he is like a strict lightning down the court every time and nick nurse wants him to be pushing a transition all the time The other thing i'll say as a bit of a hot take is I think you make a decent argument that the sixers could be better off Even this year Having danthey melton next to tyree's maxi than having james hard entire maxi together Because I think having danthey melton a very good defensive guard a perpetually underrated guy next to maxi guard the best defender on the other team It's a solid spot up three points shooter shot in your 40 percent leisure from three i believe um I think that fit is much better and then to your point you're just giving the ball of tyree's maxi for 35 minutes a game and letting them go And so I would be more than fine with that if I was a sixers and to your point The best the sixers have set themselves up right now to go in next summer with these two max hour slots in theory To pursue star players to play next to jwala beat and tyree's maxi So why they're not going to give tyree's maxi this extension right well the best way to sell yourselves as a destination next summer Is to have tyree's maxi become a bonafide star this year and elevate himself into the discussion with guys like LaMella ball and tyree's albert and and these other young rising point guards around the league and be like hey Yeah, james harden's gone but come play here with you while i'm beat in tyree's maxi name your star wing slash You know power forward free agents that we can come into slot next to these guys on the perimeter And then with those four guys you hope to be right there with seems like milwaukee and boston next year to compete for a title Like that's the that's the argument if you're trying to make it if you're the sixers So I think the sooner they can get to that the better now. I also went trade james harden for A minimal return which I think right now is what's on the table, but I i'm with you.

I think tyree's maxi looks ready to go And I would be trying my damnedest if I was the sixers to turn the team over to him as fast as humanly possible Because that is the path to them getting where they want to go ultimately like we were just talking about what's our hero Obviously, I think maxi is a higher level player than hero because of some of the things he could do Athletic layer on another level But if he has all these reps this year with the ball that gives him a chance to maybe take a leap to another level Then he is now and that is the way I think this team gets to Championship contention. Um now if you don't know james arm is totally bought in this year It was gonna be around and everything it was gonna be like a wide he was gonna play it all out this year Then yeah, I probably would swing on it because I do think with james out there They've got a shot but if it's anything less than that I would be Trying to get it to tyree's as much as possible and turn this team over to him because like you said going forward That's the guy with joell that this team is going to be built around and it's part of the reason that they'll be able to convince joell That he should stick around there if they're able to well and talking about melting You just nailed sort of the ultimate dilemma of the team which is can they defend well enough with maxi and harden on the floor And not only that but you know the trickle-down effect of that was always well to buy his heres is having to guard guys that you know Probably not that he's not qualified to guard him He's a little overstretched defensively guarding some of the guys he had to guard And so then you have to have tucker on the floor, which hit you know hits your offense a little bit And I always like the lineup of maxi harden melt and harris and bead But you know defensively they just I think they thought it was too small Maybe didn't have enough life in it whatever but and then you just hit the needle that they're trying to thread here Which is salvaging this season? While maintaining the flexibility to upgrade with cap space in the off-season either via trade or via signing for agents While also all along having joell and bead be like yep, we're good enough that i'm content That is that's like three needles to thread at the same time and by the way Like jew holiday was going to be one of their free agency targets the odds of him hitting the open market just went down significantly You know you can care or not about what kiwai and paul george are saying about how much they want to stay with the clippers And they came here to be clippers and until the ink is dry on a contract They're potential free agents But if they're true to their word and the clippers are true to their word and the clippers have a good season to share You start to go down the line of like who exactly are we getting with this catch in there? Other guys the raptors guys we've talked about it before but I do agree with you like I don't think this is a Bluff by the Sixers in terms of we're not trading James harden for a return that we deem unsatisfactory and getting us a James harden level player via trade or via this direct trade I think they're prepared to wait until at least December 15th when the league's trademark It really opens up because all the players who signed in the off-season are most of them become trade eligible again until until then Newly signed traders are not trade eligible and I honestly think like if maxi and beat are healthy They'll be pretty much okay win loss-wise in that span It's more like vibes-wise if James isn't playing and milwaukee's 25 and five and boston's 25 and five and fillies 18 and 12 You know What are the what's the mood around the team gonna be that's that's a bigger concern Yeah, I mean look two years ago Tyrese maxi was handed the ball to start training camp by doc rivers when ben simmons wasn't there I was like you're the point guard of the team right he's a significantly better player now than he was then They didn't have the Anthony melton on that team and Joelle I think is a better player now than he was then made you know at least slight improvements to his game That seemed like 51 games would change harden not showing up until mid-February and then working his way in over the next six weeks Right, so I think this team could win more than 51 games If they don't have James harden around it all this year now again It's sort of a similar discussion to what we talked about with Miami and that I think this team could win a lot of regular season games We have a really good team finish somewhere in the top three or four in the east Uh, and then they're gonna get to the playoffs and their top end is probably not gonna be good enough to once again Get out of the second round and we'll be back talking about the sixers in a similar vein that we have in the past next summer When they go into the summer and try to thread this needle and improve the roster and for aid See like you said either by trade or signing guys, but I do think the team is gonna be really good And if they're two main guys are healthy like they're gonna soar a ton of points and they're gonna win a lot of games So, you know, it with all the noise around the sixers It's very easy to forget and everyone is guilty of doing so how good this team is and has been for years now But it just comes along with so much noise and controversy and drama that it sort of gets overshadowed that they are always winning 50ish games and they're always one of the top two or three seats in the east and they're always in the mix to Advanced in the playoffs and then they get to the second round and they don't so You know, it's fitting that we're once again having the same conversation about this team that could win it Could win the east could be right there, but has all this drama will they be able to resolve it?

Well, they not what will they do? I mean, it's going on five years being around this team on a regular basis And it's been the exact same thing the entire time well with all sorts of other Shenanigans throwing in twitter accounts shirt collar. Oh, no, I mean drop There's always controversy and drama that the the explanations for why it's happening always changed But the constant is there's never peace and quiet. There's always chaos and there's chaos again now.

Well We shall see what happens But these two teams Miami and Philadelphia are about to embark on a basketball season as basketball teams as they are currently constructed And it was time to have a discussion about them as currently constructive You'll see how long they maintain their current forms, but the season is starting and Damien Luller's not walking through that door. It's not walking through that door and Any door either door and James Harden is in the Sixers are trying to find a door Everything's locked and I fell off all the doors are gone. Blake Griffin's chair is barricading the door Whatever's happening Tim Bontemps. You can hear him on the hoop collective.

You can read him after lots of games in the Eastern Conference He's got something up seemingly every day on good old ESPN calm. Let's go Mets. Thank you, sir. Of course, man This episode is brought to you by defender With its six hundred and twenty six horsepower twin turbo v8 engine The defender Akka is taking on the Dakar rally the ultimate off-road challenge learn more at landrover.ca Amazon presents jeff versus taco truck salsa Whether it's verde roha or the orange one for teff trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a frame thrower Luckily jeff saved with amazon and stocked up on antassids ginger tea and milk habeniero more like habenier Yes, save the every day with amazon Alright, let's preview another eastern conference team We haven't talked much about the cleveland Cavaliers and to do that one of the best guys covering a team anywhere in the NBA of cleveland.com christfied or how are you sir?

Second great, man. How are you doing? I'm hanging in so let's review the cavalier is traded a whole boatload of draft picks for dot of Mitchell the Utah jazz are sitting there owning all The Cavaliers first round picks pointedly from 2025 to 2029 They won 51 games behind a quartet of darius garland Donovan Mitchell evan mobley and jared allen Donovan Mitchell made first team all nba. I think correct.

I voted him first team all nba 18 Oh second team. Well, so again the words just going in and I'm I voted him first team Um some some other people apparently did not uh and they had the number one defense in the nba The number seven offense the number two net rating and all it got them Was an ass kicking in the first round of the playoffs at the hands of the brutalizing rebounding new york nicks And all that got them now is a whole lot of pressure on this season more pressure than you would typically face for a young rising team Because looming all over all this is Donovan Mitchell's potential extension. He's eligible for one now He's already said he's not gonna sign one now. Maybe in the off season um Sell them.

Do you see a team that is young and they're not all in because the the disaster scenario where they they kind of flame out again this year Mitchell signals, maybe he'd want to leave Mitchell does end up leaving again. This is the disaster scenario I'm not saying it's going to happen likely to happen 10% likely i'm not saying any probability on at all I'm just saying it is a scenario They still have darius garland and evan mobley at least and that was one of the reasons they jumped all in for don Because they feel like we are insulated from a brooklyn netz style Disaster. Oh my god. We're coughing up top five picks because this straight went haywire But there is a lot of pressure on this team to erase what happened in the post-season They doubled and tripled down on putting shooting around the two big men because their offense just could not function It was just strangled in cramp space.

So max truce in likely starting georgniang in a key backup big man Isaac at corros future uncertain they're playing fast. They were last in pace last year christopher I forgot about that they want to play fast and fly and shoot early threes What are the early returns? What's the mood around the team? How have they how have they in camp talked about the fallout from that playoff series and how they're going to pivot away from it because it was bad It wasn't bad and I think everybody would admit it was bad to zach players coaches front office members they all look at the season kind of in two separate ways right 51 wins One of the best regular seasons that they've had in the last decade The best regular season obviously that they've had since the LeBron James era A lot of positive things that they got out of that regular season a lot of positive things That they were able to learn about themselves in that regular season But you mentioned it before one non competitive playoff series against the nix where they got manhandled and they led for 49 total minutes That's it in those five games.

I'm surprised. I'm surprised. I were gonna say 49 total seconds Well, they won one of those games. That's a little bit skewed more skewed than people would realize They know that they just didn't play their best basketball And they know that they had some flaws that were exposed by the nix in that series And they hope that they went out this off season and they addressed them They believe that they're more ready for a playoff series because they went through it They saw it they understand what it takes what's going to be required Like they got the experience and then Mobley got the experience he needed darius garland got the experience He needed jared ellen got a little bit more playoff experience, which was also needed So, you know Two different ways to look at the season now they come into a season zak where they know they're good They know they've taken the steps that they've needed to take in the regular season Their judgment now comes in the postseason and everybody is talking about how they're going to use what happened against the nix as fuel And as a lesson and it's all about putting that together now How are they characterizing and how would you characterize what happened to their offense during the playoffs?

And obviously stuff happened to their defense doing mitchell robinson getting every available offensive rebound for the nix and just absolutely Punking jared ellen But I asked because all the a lot of the focus has been on What can they play these two bigs together? Yeah, the spacing was just so cramped, you know, they the nix with blitz garland and mitchell Evan Mobley would roll into open space or jared ellen would roll into open space except it wasn't open There were just too many bodies everywhere Evan Mobley couldn't make a floater to save his life the interior passing lanes weren't there I think one of the things they learned is they simply cannot play a koro mobley and allen together It just does not work, but um in all the attention on the big men and the spacing I feel like it's gotten lost at donald and mitchell shot 43 in the playoffs in 29 from three Darius garland shot 44 from the play out for the play out in that series 39 from 3 but 47 on twos Um, they averaged almost eight turnovers combined between them like they did not play well Well enough and I realized that all of those things interact Right like if you can clog the lane on the big guys and the other three guys on the floor Things get more difficult for the guards. They end up having to take some four shots at the end of the shock lock But I also wonder like how are the cats digesting all this because this is like you will run into matchups regardless of who the big men are Where an undersized back court as explosive and talented and creative and garland is one of the most creative passors and ball handlers in the league Underrated I think in that regard they just run into defenses that are bigger longer and force them into just taking really difficult shots Like how is the whole for yes the big men there was a lot of focus on that But how is how have they navigated the whole sort of ecosystem of what happened to their offense I think the way that they're looking at exact is we're going to try and make things easier on darius garland endowment mission Because I think even though the calves had a top 10 offense in the regular season They also had flaws. Everybody knew what those flaws was not enough shooting not enough spacing too much of a cramped court Like going into that series against the nicks there was a legitimate question about What were the calves going to do at starting small forward?

Are they gonna start Isaac a corner? Are they gonna start? Um Carrots the vert. I think I go back to more Stevens like what are they going to do there?

Osmond was the main character in the only game that they won in that series That's right. Are they gonna start teddy osmond and get a little bit more spacing and some off-ball movement and stuff like that So they green played In the playoffs. Yeah, right. That was a real thing.

It was a real thing They knew going into that series act that new york was going to put a ton of pressure on darius and donovan And they were going to commit a lot of attention to slowing those guys down And they thought at some points that they were going to have enough to combat that They were excited to use evan mobley in four on three situations and see if they could tap into his playmaking and his passing He looked like he wasn't ready for the moment. Everything was moving a little bit too fast for him So when they started setting screens with evan and he was getting the pass as the outlet and he wasn't making the right decisions The calves are like oh boy. Now what are we gonna do here to adjust to that sort of thing? So if you think about this off-season just as a whole Like yes, darius and donovan are great.

They're the engines of the offense But it's all about trying to disguise diversify and make things easier on those guys max drew Being in that starting lineup is going to create more space more driving lanes for them The attention that the nix paid on darius and donovan sending that extra defender Teams are going to think twice about doing that because of the shooting that surrounds because of the elements of max drewce and the attention That he commands from an opposing defense And then they're trying to use evan mobley more as an offensive hub so that they can take darius and donovan off the ball So that eyes can't just be focused on them in a static position Right, they're trying to push the pace and get easier baskets and make quicker decisions in half court situation So that they can't just bog down and then have darius and donovan have to go and create something out of nothing So everything as weird as this sounds because darius and donovan are so great on their own Everything has been designed to try and make things easier on those guys So that offense isn't as much of a chore and they don't have to carry as much of a burden As you're saying all that the word that started buzzing in my head was unpredictable I thought their offense was just way too predictable. It's just high pick high pick and roll high pick and roll high pick and roll And when you give a smart well coach defensive team Up the same thing over and over again, they're just going to be too good unless your spacing is just outrageously good And this was the opposite scenario and you mentioned putting the ball in mobley's hands like I mentioned that during the playoff series I think so so unpredictable means sometimes we're just going to run like hell and take an early three or see what we can get in semi transition Like they didn't do enough of that Sometimes it might mean and this is what I mentioned put the ball in mobley's hands and have garland and mitchell screen for each other and run those like Warrior style split actions not every time but like once every six possessions throw it in there Instead of the same pick and roll over and over again running on the left side swing it to the right side Have if Jared allen setting the screen have have garland smash his guy with the screen on the way up to donovan mitchell to get the defense disrupted Like you're just wasn't enough and like honestly saying all this we've been focused on the players I think this is a big year for jb bigger staff, too I think it is um and every judgment for jb, too Just like when it comes to the cabs is going to be about how he handles the playoff environment Can he look better in a seven game series can he make the adjustments quicker? Can he make um better in game decisions the way that time tibido did I think jb would be the first one to admit and the cabs have come out and said it as well They were outplayed in that series no doubt about it They were out muscled in that series no doubt about it But they are out coached in that series as well The nix had a clear edge on their sidelines that the cabs could do nothing to make up for so it's a big big big big season for jb I think it's a big season for the organization as a whole but jb Specifically and if exactly do not get out of the first round of the playoffs If they do not take another step as an organization given everything that they've invested into this roster given all the resources that they gave up In order to get down to the midgel changes are going to happen. I don't know what those look like Um, I don't know what that is ultimately going to mean There are a lot of factors in play, but a first round playoff exit will not be tolerated Well You know perk I think is mentioned on mba today that anything short of the conference finals is a disappointment for the cabs And I keep pushing back on that and being like perk that means they might have to beat like boston or mil wonky in the second round of the playoffs I think that is um an optimistic scenario I do think Again, it's rare to say this about a team so young depending on health and where they end up being seated and all that They have to win a first round playoff series Unless they get some weird scenario where one of these are like harden comes back 30 games left in the season and the sixers are somehow like a random six seat or just something corral the miami Just sort of crawl does the miami crawl into the playoffs and just all of a sudden jimmy butler hits four threes a game So there are mitigating scenarios, but if it's a matchup like it was last year against a team that is was frankly beautiful I picked the caps to win that series they have to win a playoff series because I do think Regardless of all this I think these guys are gonna win a lot of regular season games I just I just think they're deep they're loaded They have four really good players not with standing what happened to jared out in the postseason and his current he has ankle Dream right yeah bonkers in his ankle.

Yep. I think like they're a pretty good bet for 50 plus wins again And it's almost attributed to them that they're gonna win 50 plus games get the third or fourth seed And no one is gonna care until we see what they look like in the playoffs They should almost take that as a compliment frankly. Yeah It's interesting zag because you can't make too much about what you see in training camp in in the preseason But they seem committed to these changes Stylistically that we've all talked about that they need to make so that they're better equipped to handle a seven game series In the first preseason game against atlanta They pushed the pace they ran after mrs And makes they had 24 fast break points a number that they topped us twice in 82 games last season Right they took 48 threes in the first preseason game. Their most in a game last year was 50 Evan Mobley being as involved as he was offensively getting the number of touches that he got in that game against atlanta He just wasn't used that same kind of way throughout the course of the regular season They had 30 assists on 40 made shots.

There was like ball movement cutting They ran some sets with max drus and down vin Mitchell together max drus darius garland together Even last night in their second preseason game against orlando They put down vin at one elbow evan mobley at the other elbow They put georgian yang in the corner max drus in the other corner And they ran at darius garland back cut for a wide open layup like those kinds of offensive actions Are now going to be available to them the style that they're hoping to play offensively is now going to be available to them Because the personnel that they have like they ran so much pick and roll last year and they became so predictable offensively last year's act Because that was their best path to offensive success, right darius and daven are elite pick and roll players Jared alan's an elite pick and roll big They don't have bigs like joell and beat and yolkich where you can just run the offense through them over and over and over again And have it be diverse enough that it is going to attack and defense the way that it needs to They didn't have like great cutters great off ball movers like staff and clay and some of these other guys around the NBA So they did in large part what their personnel dictated them doing on the offensive end of the floor Um now they have different personnel now they can vary their lineups now They can vary their looks and they believe the calves knew deep down that they were a flawed team And some of those things could have been exposed in the playoffs and they knew that if they ran into the wrong match up It probably wasn't going to go well for them Now this front office and this organization feels like the changes that they needed to make stylistically and with the personnel have been made They addressed many of their flaws and they believe now they're good enough to win a first round playoff series So with that belief in mind if they don't it's going to be a huge disappointment a huge slap in the face And that's where like you said change is definitely going to come So you mentioned how they looked in the preseason so far i watched the hawks half hawks him I'm not going to commit to a full preseason calf's hawks till i'm not going to do it But you know i'm underlying everything you're saying is because Jared alan's hurt Evan Mobley's playing center essentially every minute he's on the floor with four perimeter players and sometimes four shooters Around him and the numbers suggest um the mobley alan duo was fantastic in the regular season last year didn't work in the playoffs The numbers also suggest um lineups with just one of them. So alan at center no mobley mobley at center no alan We're also both very good although the mobley ones wobbled a little bit on the glass And I think um the reason I didn't end up voting evan mobley defense player there I came very close was I think he the physicality of of some players some bigger players Not even just centers was a little much for him on the glass in an interior and like he's just he's just not quite at that All position it doesn't even matter you have me guarding level of a jaren jackson jr Which is fine. He's was 21 years old or whatever last year I am wondering and again alan's injury has sort of complicated this question Are we going to see less of them together and more of them separated with like a georgian yang at the floor even a struce At the floor are they going to go all in on shooting to that level? I think it's going to depend on the match up.

I think it's going to depend on the situation But i'll say this zach I think they they believe that they're better equipped to do that right? I think if you go back to last year and you say to yourself well split up jareden And evan because you need more spacing you need more shooting then you have to come back and say Okay, then who are you going to go to if you move evan mobile e to the five who you're going to go to at the four You're going to go with a little more sevents like kevin love who was playing as bad as any player in the nba before getting bought out by the calves Dean wade who started off great then got hurt and then Make me do the jingle don't make me do the dean wade jingle that is captivated to nation I can't you know what I can't do the jingle. I can't do the jingle. He's back in the rotation That's exactly right You know it was tough mentally for him with kevin leaving in the buyout and he wasn't the the way that he needed to be physically Um, and I think that that heard his confidence both of the factors Yeah, shoulder injury some kind of yeah Shoulder was wrecked and it was to a point zack where he just like couldn't lift it to a certain level So shooting was difficult rebounding was difficult and every time like he took a hit on it He was worried that it was going to be even worse So like that's the point If you just like don't have better options to go to the calves just swallow the fact that we're going to give up some spacing We're going to give up something offensively, but we're going to be so dominant defensively Now they can sit there and say well if we move evan to the five and we split those two guys up We're gaining something we're putting niang at the four and we're gaining spacing and shooting and a three-point threat or you know This version of dean wade might be a little bit better than the version of dean wade that we saw in the second half of last year Or maybe we go super small and we try next truth at the four something that they did in the first preseason game against atlanta Having more reliable better options I think is going to allow them to look at the situation and say There is something that we're going to gain by splitting those guys up and it's worth it Now the trade-off is defense.

They were number one in defense last year Which was really I mean for all the all the kind of negativity about how their offense were formed at the playoffs and jb Bigger steps coaching the playoffs like really shockingly amazing outcome to be the number one defense in the mba And giving up as many offensive rebounds as they gave up to still have that kind of defense Tells you how good their first shot defense was well and there's if you look at the shooting numbers There's no fluke in is to it It's not like they got lucky with the point of threes or mid-range numbers They're like they got no luck in that sense at all. We spent the whole season lecture. Who's the fifth guy They don't have the fifth guy. Where's the three and D guy?

Well three and D guys are really hard to find They all make once they're off the rookie contracts like 30 million dollars Just get three and D guys on the wing Play the three and the four a corals three point three pointers didn't come I mean teams just leave him wide open. That's fine You could tax open space and dust up in transition Struce is a three and some D like maybe passable D on the right night. Okay. He's tough.

He's strong He's not like throw him at Jason Tatum and Jalen brown and and hope for the best kind of thing But he's all right What is their level of concern about maintaining? Let's say a top five defense and and the level of concern about okay Once we get into the playoffs it is about matchups and if we meet one of these apex wings, what are we going to do? So I want to paint a picture for you because you brought up Isaac O'Korro and how teams just ignore him The difference between what can be possible for this team with Max Drew's versus Isaac O'Korro to me is striking and it's highlighted by these numbers So on catch and shoot threes alone The average distance of the defender from Isaac O'Korro was more than nine feet Is that that is the length of a boa constrictor? I believe it was the largest such distance in the whole NBA for any shooter I believe it was fourth fourth.

Okay fourth on catch and shoot threes alone For Max Drew's the average distance of the defender was a little bit more than five feet away That was the 23rd highest. It was in the same realm with clay Thompson Steffing curry and kd led the NBA in terms of In terms of shortest distance. It was about five feet five point oh two or something along those lines So it's just a different level of gravity that Max Drew's is going to bring to the table And I think there's a philosophical shift a slight philosophical shift here zak because their defense first jb loves defense He's talked about not taking a significant step back But I think they're okay with taking a slight step back defensively If they're going to gain significantly on the offensive end of the floor For the first couple of years of jb and while they were trying to implement their system And put a culture in place everything was about defense defense defense defense the lineup decisions that they made were so much about defense And now I think they're ready to make more offensive-minded decisions Which is why I believe max is going to be in the starting lineup Which is why I believe that george nyang might finish some games at various points throughout the course of this season Could could nyang play center something he could some in the right matchup for sure Um, I think dean wade could play the three in some matches don't get me too excited. Don't do it to me Don't do it.

I'm gonna keep bringing you up deep-weighted. So you do well. It's a deep-weight is de-weighted important to think about for me I mean look, I mean I I find de-weight extremely important But you know you look at their rotation. I agree with you streuce is gonna start I find it puzzling that they just haven't come out and said that yet So it's the four core guys and streuce and then the bench like the way they stagger the minute you keep Often keep one of garland or Mitchell on you often keep one of allen or moblion I would say the top three bench guys.

I would just maybe i'm wrong or levert Who's fine yang and a koro that gets you to eight because I still think they have to give a koro shot Because his defense is and his open core plays that good That's eight If you're really really serious you could just limit it to that eight nobody does that in a regular season You go nine ten whatever who are guys nine and ten is like tied your own gonna get a shot is a backup point card like How does that work? Yeah, I think tied your own and I think damey and jones depending on what happens with Jared allen And I think the way that they're going to look at that nine ten zak is like It depends on what they need on a given night, right Maybe they need some more ball handling and they go to tie Jerome Maybe they need some more floor spacing Um size and they go with dean wade Maybe they need to have some facsimile of jared allen certainly not the same player as jared allen But some of the same skill sets as jared allen and they go to damey and jones Um, I think it's just going to vary night by night. Um, maybe possession by possession match up by match up Um, but at the very least zak they have more nba playable guys that they can go to right there nine ten Is not like 13 14 from last year It's like a legitimate nba player that they could go to and tied to rome is somebody that they may have to rely on a little bit More than they thought when they signed him zak they signed him to be ricky rubios understudy Everything last year from the calves their messaging about ricky rubio was wait until year two when he's further removed from the torn ACL When he has more competitive game reps when he's coming off a world cup experience That's all something that they were banking on with ricky. Um, now he's not around right now They don't know when he's going to be around.

Um, there's no clarity whatsoever from either side of when he's going to be around And you have to think about What version of ricky the player are you going to get even if he does come because he hasn't played Much basketball um during this absence and the last version of ricky rubio that they saw couldn't even be played in the series Against the nix he looked like a shell of himself. He looked like he was in a bad place physically and mentally So tied to rome is probably going to get more opportunities than the calves thought they were going to have to give him and probably more Than what ty thought he was going to get when he signed with the calves and they like him They think he can do some of the things that they need from a third guard or emergency backup point guard But the value in the way that they constructed this roster to zak is that if they just have to stagger down And darius and make one of them the de facto point guard I think they're totally okay with doing that And I think that's part of the reason why last night down with mitchell played into the second half of the second pre-season game Because it was a different look that they wanted to they wanted to evaluate I think ty Jerome's an NBA rotation player. Yep. I've always had a soft spot for Damien Jones I don't I don't even know why because he's a sneaky good passer from the high post And if they're gonna play him as it's like emergency backup center if jerry alan's hurt for a little bit And I think he's gonna be back fairly soon from what I read I hope they Try to lean into his passing a little bit just to see like all right guys cut move like other guys cut move The other thing I forgot to mention is and I'm curious to see if you've talked to the coaches about this or how much we're gonna see this I mentioned the wing defense in the tatoms in the browns of the world and like yeah Nobody has players who can defend like the bucks had drew holiday to defend jimmy butler and it and jimmy butler like was a human volcano for Four wins in the playoffs and it didn't matter that they had drew holiday But you would still like to have somebody who's decent enough that it's not like an absolute crisis every time those guys touch the ball Yes, some instance.

Yeah, and I've said for a while now I like the idea in doses And only when alan is also on the floor to patrol the back line of trying mobly in that role And like it requires shifting struce onto alworford or whatever version of like a bigger player that you think struce can hide out on I like that idea only when alan's on the floor because if mobiles beat there's got to be a real protection behind him If mobiles the center and there's no other big there is no more protection Is that something the coaches have like you've seen it in flashes if they talked about that is that a tool that we're gonna see I think so I think there are different aspects to evan that we're going to see in year three that we haven't seen in year one and year two We talked about the offense and using him as an offensive hub and the cabs are going to run some d.h Oh stuff with evan mobly and max drew's and put evan mobly in the bay I'm on a biotype role on the offensive end of the floor But I think they're going to give him more responsibility on the defensive end of the floor is that if they believe That the rest of the defense isn't going to suffer by taking him out of the pain Right like there's always a give and take with every decision that you make There's always a give and take with every lineup construction you try and use and if the cabs are going to try mobly Out there on the perimeter against some of the better wings because they don't want to give that match up to max drew's or they don't want to give that Match up to down vin mitchell Then they have to believe that they're gaining enough there and not suffering when it comes to protecting the point paint because so much of Their defense is designed around to all defensive type players in jared and evan and what they can do in the paint and around the rim Um, the other thing I will say zak is that The cabs coming into this year They don't want to cross match as much and I think they're going to ask their individual defenders darius down vin max drew's Take your own man and see if you can handle that particular match up because I think they believe going back to that series against new york And I believe that they're right on this that a big part Look, they're offensive rebounding the number of offensive rebounds that they gave up was just Saggering and there were so many layers to that and yes jared alan got pushed around and evan mobly wasn't physical enough and that's part of the Reason why I put on seven pounds this past offseason and lived in the weight room So there was an element to that But the schemes that they ran defensively played part in new york just controlling the glass About 50% of the offensive rebounds that the cabs gave up in that series against new york came after a blitz Having evan go out to the perimeter as the second defender on jail and bronson or jared alan go out to the perimeter and be the second defender On jail and bronson and those guys were scrambling to try and get back into rebounding position It's very very difficult to do that because the nicks are hunting garland and they like the bronson garland match up or they like whatever They hunted I thought the cabs perimeter guys one of the stories of their season was Laverte mitchell garland three guys who have reputations as as offense first players and our fantastic offense player offensive players levert up and down Obviously all bought in on defense and grinded and got around screens and blew up dhos and bought into the made the rotations And then they ran into a match up where it was like that's cool that you guys do all that stuff We're just gonna take jail and ronson and have him beat the hell out of you because he's bigger Not big or just stronger and bulkier than you and there was just no It doesn't matter how committed you are to the team concept if you're switched on to jail and runs and he can just overpower you Yes, so because of some of those things that happened in the next series It's not entirely well that series happened this kind of way so everything that happened in that series We're gonna try and do the opposite or we're gonna try and change from that but you have to learn from that right So like the things that they tried schematically put their bigs in a very very very difficult position They put their defense in a very difficult position So coming into this year they're gonna ask dairies to take some defensive match ups That maybe they haven't in the past and max troops guard your own position down I'm a Mitchell guard your own position And if it doesn't work the way that they want it to and it's not effective for the defense Then at the very least they have an option like Evan Mobley Where if he has to go out to the perimeter and guard some of those apex wings that you were mentioning I think they're willing to give him a chance at that kind of at that kind of match up more so than what they have in the first two years I think this is a this is a really gonna be a really fun team to watch not only because they have this sort of supernova talent And dairies garland is crafty and they have stars who are fun to watch I think there's a lot of just sort of every game I'm gonna just be looking for stuff to project forward like this work Does that work? What's the tool they can use in the playoffs? They're gonna be really fun to watch and look people can hear by the stature sighting by the exes notes you're citing Chris feeder covers this team like unbelievably well If you're not following him on twitter if you're not reading a stuff at cleveland.com you need a subscription do it do it because You're not getting Isaac a koro shot distance and calves exes and ores and how they did this in the nix series And what they did up high impacted their rebounding it wasn't just Mitchell robinson beating the hell out of dair down. It was all this other stuff.

You're not getting that elsewhere So chris um, thank you for spending some time with us. Um everyone what's your twitter handle at chris feeder just my name Easy and or your x handle. I'm sorry Yeah Uh follow his stuff It's just a second to none and we'll have you back on when we get maybe 1520 games of a sample size But I know you're busy you've been traveling around you got a little kid Thank you for making some time zach man always enjoy it have me on any time Baseball fans the espn app has all of espn all in one place the espn app is your home to thousands of live events espn shows and originals across every espn Networking service and now you can check if you already have the espn unlimited as part of your tv package for no additional calls Visit activate dot espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up then start screaming in the espn app It's all the espn all in one place sign up or activate now