This is a Global Player original podcast. Hello and welcome to the bonus episode of Your Rob about ADHD. I'm Lucy Breathwick. And I'm Sam.
This is. And we were talking to Mandy Alexander about a biggie when it comes to us, ADHD as ADHD tax. And she was great, wasn't she? Because first of all, loads of tips for how to deal with it.
But she also talked about a lot of other stuff that I'll be honest, hadn't even occurred to me, you know. Things like body doubling, you know, basically getting people involved in how you're failing and making sure they're keeping in line with what you're doing. And along the way, I mean, even before you get to body doubling, identifying the issues where you particularly fall over. What are your individual crisis points?
Yeah, because accountability is such a key point in terms of avoiding impulsivity, really, isn't it? If you know that you're impulsive, how do you check that? One of the ways is by saying, okay, what are the triggers for me? Is it boredom?
Is it sleep deprivation? Is it sadness that suddenly makes me go and spend? If you know that, then you almost just make a sort of check mark in your brain so that when you're in those situations and you open up an app on your phone and you think you're going to spend some money, it makes you just take that extra step and think, oh, hang on a minute, I've reminded myself that in this situation, sometimes I spend too much money. Equally, you mentioned body doubling, it's a form of accountability.
If you know that someone's going to check on you, then actually makes a different decision. And you talked about that before. You had talked about the fact that you got really, really bored once or obsessed with a particular toy that you were buying for your kids. So how did you do that?
Yeah, I've definitely got in that situation where I get a sort of, do you know what, the kids are collecting something and I get a collection bargain. It is impulsivity. It is a bit of a buzz from doing it and it often comes from boredom. And I think I did at one point say to my wife, actually, do you know what, I think I'm probably spending too much money on these toys if I don't think I really need to.
And it wasn't like I was getting rid of our life savings, it wasn't like I was getting myself in financial trouble, but it was at a point where I thought, I just need that check for next time to remind myself, don't do that, that's a waste of money, don't need to do that. Yeah, yeah. You see, I don't know, I don't know how comfortable I feel about having someone involved in my finances. I mean, I, you know, between you and me, obviously, and everyone else listening to the podcast, I, my husband and I each have what's called a running away fund, which sounds a bit weird.
But that, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's literally hard. I've never, because I refused for years and years and years to have, even had a joint account because I felt that that would be looking at what I was spending and watching what I was spending. And the idea that you would literally say to somebody, oh, watch me and what I'm spending, actually makes me feel really struppy. So I just think it's not your fucking business, why I'm spending the money that I've earned.
And, you know, it just feels completely wrong. So this situation I described, it's not about someone keeping tabs on you or somebody telling you what you can or can't do. It's recognising, particularly if you have a problem with spending, it's recognising that you can't always put the checks in yourself. And if somebody checks in with you and says, do you want to spend that?
Are you sure you want to spend that? It just gives you a moment to think. So it's not telling you you can or can't, it's putting a check in place so that you stop and think. Do you see the difference?
Mm, I do see the difference. It still makes me feel really uncomfortable. Okay. Yeah.
Well, maybe that's something to work on. Maybe it is. I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, you know, I, gosh, I can see why it would work. But it boils down to that not wanting to be told what to do thing again. And, you know, maybe it's because I've never got myself into deep, deep trouble financially. Maybe if I had, that would be different because it would mean I really had to find a means of staying in control.
And that, of course, is a way in which you can do that. You mentioned your emergency fund. I mean, you call it a runaway fund, which is probably another podcast in itself. I hope you won't get too deep into that.
But an emergency fund. It is an emergency fund. As a contingency. Maggie mentioned that as well.
It's a great idea. Yeah. You know, it makes sense. It does.
But, you know, then that's hard for us ADHDers, isn't it, to have... I mean, maybe it's a good thing that's called a running away fund. Because if I call it saving for roof repairs, I'd be less inclined to put money in. Oh, well, that's sensible.
That's giving it a name that, as I said, is taking ownership of it yourself. And saying, this is... I'm thinking of it positively rather than thinking it's something I've got to do. It's something I want to do rather than actually...
Yes, yes. And, you know, it is about having those safety nets and those checks and balances in place. The other thing I found really compelling or interesting about that conversation was the idea of shame. And also connecting the idea of shame to whether or not this makes us difficult people to be with in a relationship.
You know, whisper it very quietly. I hope that there are no normal ADHDers listening, frankly. Because it makes us dangerous people, surely, to be in a relationship, doesn't it? If we've got this impulsiveness around spending or this inability to keep tabs, all this forgetfulness to pay the parking ticket to turn up at the end of the parking time and then pay the ticket and then pay the fine in the time.
Will you ask a question? Do you believe that? Do you believe that by yourself? I think I do.
Well, you think you're dangerous to be around? No, no, no, no. I don't think I am. I don't think I am.
Because I do think I've got it in check. But I think if you are somebody who... Say, for instance, you're somebody who is a gambler. Put it that way.
Right, so I had a great-grandfather who was a gambler. And my grandmother's earliest memory aged four, she was on 12 kids, and her earliest memory aged four was standing on a station platform somewhere in Lincolnshire in the clothes that she was wearing with nothing. Because he had gambled away their home and their business the night before. I think he was a publican, I think, with a blacksmith's business at the back.
It's a good business. And he gambled the whole thing. He played three nights of cards and he gambled the whole thing away. Now, I look back and I think, did he have ADHD?
This was a man who was awake for three nights. Or did he just have a gambling addiction? Well, yeah, but are they not? I believe more and more that those things are connected.
They might be connected. But I think it's important to say that not everybody who has ADHD is necessarily addicted to gambling. Not everybody is necessarily addicted to alcohol. Yes, people have impulsivity.
And yes, we are probably more prone to that. Well, we are more prone to that with ADHD. It doesn't suddenly mean that everybody with ADHD is a liability. It doesn't suddenly mean that everybody with ADHD is suddenly going to be completely unreliable when it comes to the limit.
No, and I'm not saying that. I know you're not saying that. I think it's important not to fear that either. I think to sort of get to a place where you think, oh, well, I've got ADHD, therefore I can't manage my money and I'm a bad bet as a partner.
I don't think that's helpful either. I think there are lots of things we can manage to do. And the things that we struggle with, we ask for help with. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I think ADHD in so many ways is a brilliant thing. It just really concerns me that this is the one area of our challenge or our challenges where it really impacts other people. It plays into that feeling of shame, doesn't it? It's that thing of, I've got ADHD and therefore I can't do certain things or perhaps, as you're fearing, I'm a liability.
I don't think everybody with ADHD is a liability. However, talking of shame, I don't want to accept the ADHD tax. I don't want to accept that I'm going to, you know, probably forget about a parking fine or that maybe I'm going to spend too much money here or there or I might accidentally buy something three times. I don't want to do that.
I want to be organised. I want to make sure that I'm on top of my money. The situation I described earlier with my wife wasn't because I was suddenly getting into massive debt was because I didn't want to waste money. And I don't like wasting money.
And I don't think the answer to the ADHD tax is just to say, oh, well, it's one of those things to chalk it up. Maybe it is for some people. For me, I don't want to say that. But I don't think those people are just accepting that they have an ADHD tax that they have to carry.
I don't think they can help it. I think that's where you and I may be are rubbing up against each other here is that I am seeing this as something which sometimes is uncontrollable. It's uncontrollable. And we can talk about the tips that Maddie gave us in a moment because there were some great tips in there.
But I do think for some people, those tips are impossible. I think it's impossible. It's all very well to say, diarise stuff, body double, all these wonderful things. I think for some people who have some form of ADHD, that's OK and it's doable.
And you are clearly better at it than I am. No, I wouldn't say that. But there are some people who find that literally impossible. I think that's a really good point.
And I think I have to say this carefully because I want to make sure that I am respectful of others. Yeah, you're right. Maybe there are for some people who this is really difficult. For me personally, I refuse to accept that it's impossible to manage my ADHD and manage parts of my ADHD.
And maybe I'll come round. But as far as I'm concerned, I want to manage my ADHD and I want to stop the problem behaviour. I want to stop the things that are causing me issues and causing other people issues. And so I'm not willing to accept that it's impossible to control the ADHD tax.
But that makes good things, Sam. And I think that makes you lucky because you are somebody who is able to put those steps in place that means all the life is. But you're somebody who's going, no, I'm not going to let this take over. I'm going to get on with it.
I'm going to make my life better. And I think you're extraordinarily fortunate that you're able to A, have that belief in yourself and B, follow through. But for some people, they can't. You know, for some people who maybe are overspenders, who, as Maggie talked about, goes online, orders stuff that's too big for them, forgets to send it back.
It goes beyond the date. Believe me, I've done that before. And I have had to learn that, you know, I've still got a box from last year sitting guilty in the corner of my room that I keep meaning to sell on one of the online selling websites. And I still haven't got round to that.
And, you know, who knows when that will happen. But it is about being able to follow through with that next step and doing it. And, you know, I'm lucky I can afford to shoulder the cost of that box sitting in the corner of my room. For lots of people, they can't.
Some people get into the most almighty trouble. And I don't know what we do about that. Is it time for these online clothing stores to have some sensibility to the fact that some people overspend sometimes? And maybe it's their responsibility to ask whether or not you should be sending that much to it once.
Or if you have a record for sending back stuff beyond the date, maybe they should be asking the questions, are you sure you're okay with ordering this stuff? Because you and I both know that there's a form of exploitation in that relationship, actually. If the individual is unable to follow through and do what needs to be done, it's not fair on them that they can't. It's not fair that they're being expected to do this thing which is actually impossible for them.
And basically, the company is always a winner. The individual is always a loser. And I think it's time. Just like we have got rules and regulations in place for online gambling because we know how tricky it is for people to stop.
Maybe we need a formal regulation for online shopping. Yeah, and you're right. It's identifying what's a problem for you, isn't it? And perhaps this isn't a big issue for me as it is for other people, but I've talked about my emotional regulation which is a big issue for me.
So yeah, I think it's knowing what your problems are. But Maddie has some fantastic tips, isn't she? She did. So we've talked about 40 doubling.
But all sorts of other little things. Diarising. Now, that's definitely something I do do. You and I talked before about how I failed to claim for my summer's work over working as a security guard.
I now have my invoice in the diary. And there are some months when I miss it. But it's in the diary every month to remind me the week before that I need to get it in because if it's not there, I wouldn't. I would completely forget.
So diarising, alarms for the parking tickets, things like that. Those were all great tips. And, you know, having a sense of letting yourself off the hook if sometimes you fall short, because we do, because we're human and we've got ADHD and if this is something that we're bad at, then do what we can like you were talking about earlier. But also be kind to yourself if it turns out you have a bad day and you've overspent on something.
You know, make a note of it, remember. But move on and don't beat yourself up. I totally agree with that, but I do think if these are a problem for you, ask for help. That's everything for today.
You can listen and subscribe to Your Wrong About ADHD on Global Player or wherever you hear podcasts. Thanks for listening. See you next time. This is a Global Player original podcast.