Bonus: Listening, Trust, and the Future of Faith with Josh Packard

QUICK SUMMARY: What if the biggest obstacle to ministry isn't a lack of resources, programs, or content — but a missing system for actually knowing the people in front of you? In this bonus episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Josh Packard, sociologist of religion and co-founder of Future of Faith, for a wide-ranging conversation about one of the most urgent challenges facing the Church today: how to do genuine relational ministry at scale. Drawing on years of research data and his experience at Spring Tide Research Institute and NCEA, Josh explains why trust in institutions is collapsing — and why the only antidote is time spent in a real, consistent relationship. He introduces practical tools anyone can download free at futureoffaith.org, shares why Gen Z isn't "leaving the church" (their parents already did), and makes a compelling case for why AI will only make human connection more, not less, essential. If you work in ministry, Catholic education, or any field that depends on reaching young people, this episode is required listening. ABOUT JOSH PACKARD Josh Packard is a sociologist of religion and a former professor at the University of Northern Colorado, where he taught applied sociology. He was the founding executive director of Spring Tide Research Institute, one of the most respected sources of data on youth and faith in the United States. He is now co-founder of Future of Faith, a nonprofit dedicated to helping ministry leaders build scalable relational tools grounded in a theology of sacred listening.   IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE: 1. Trust has collapsed — and that changes everything2. Relational ministry needs a system, not just good intentions3. The Text to Connect tool4. Belonging before believing — and time before truth5. Gen Z didn't leave — they were never there6. The Church's strongest offering may be its most overlooked7. AI will deepen — not solve — the relational challenge  0:00 — Introduction: Who is Josh Packard, and what is Future of Faith? 2:15 — The Core Problem: How do you do relational ministry at scale when people only trust what's right in front of them? 5:30 — The Free Tools: What the Future of Faith listening tools are and how to download them at futureoffaith.org. 10:30 — Text to Connect: A step-by-step walkthrough of the emoji-based check-in tool — and how a color-coded Google Sheet can transform youth ministry. 14:00 — The Youth Minister's Dilemma: A real-world portrait of a minister running on voice memos, Apple Notes, and reactive attention. 20:00 — Sacred Listening vs. Ministry with an Agenda: John challenges Josh: can you really listen without an end in mind? 23:30 — Time, Trust, Truth: The framework that flips the church's traditional approach: belonging before believing. .31:00 — Tarot, Crystals, and the Spiritual-but-not-Religious: Why young people are finding spiritual systems on TikTok that the Church hasn't figured out how to offer. 39:00 — Young People Aren't Leaving the Church: Josh pushes back: their parents left. The generation the Church is trying to reach was never there. 42:00 — The Church Is Answering Questions Nobody Is Asking: John on the disconnect between pulpit priorities and what young people actually need. 57:00 — AI and the Future of Trust: Why artificial intelligence will push the locus of trust lower — toward one-on-one relationships — and what that means for the Church.   MEMORABLE QUOTES For sharing on social media or in...