Brandon Routh; his own Superman

This is Dan Jurgens, and if you want to have a good time, keep listening to The Krypton Report. Jason J. Lewis, the voice of Superman on Justice League action, and you're listening to The Krypton Report. Hi, this is David Patrick Wilson. I played Superman Clark Kent in the television production of It's a Bird, It's a Plane, joining every minute of being right here on The Krypton Report. Welcome to The Krypton Report podcast. I'm your host, Tyler, the Superman of Blue, and with me is my co-host in crime, the man who fights truth and justice.

Wait, that's a villain. I fight truth and justice? I probably fought for truth and justice. Fight for truth and justice. Mr. James Cole. What's up, buddy? Hey, how's it going, Tyler? And as part of our special with this being that, you know, every month we our goal is to get another podcaster as a guest. We have Mr. Perry Constantine. First time on this show. I've been on his show. Superhero Cinephiles. Welcome, Perry. Hey, I'm happy to be here. Glad to talk with you as always and glad to meet James. So looking forward to our discussion today. Yeah, it's going to be good.

If you haven't checked out superhero cinephiles, you should. It's great conversation with Perry and his guests. There are comic book movies spanning all time, basically. Pretty much, yeah. We got the stuff that everybody knows and the stuff that nobody's ever heard of. We cover them all. That's the best. I want to do, James, one year, you and I, we're going to dive into 90s comic book films, but we're talking The Phantom, The Shadow, that stuff. But Perry... I was waiting until we get through the DC stuff and we'll eventually expand. I love The Phantom with Billy Zane. The Phantom is actually...

legit awesome we covered that on the show about a few years back uh shadow doesn't hold up as well but the phantom definitely really hold up i think yeah the shadow to me even as a kid when i watched that movie i didn't see it in theaters i rented it and it's just something about it always seemed off and i watched a couple years ago with my buddy brian uh but check this out so 7-eleven used to have these okay my brother and i had them as kids but then my brother found one a couple years ago and got it for me for christmas Oh, nice. It's a scouring from the Phantom because we went and saw that in theaters and I really enjoyed it. So, but Perry, as a movie guy and a comic book guy, what are your current feelings on Superman 2025?

I am so psyched. Like, James Gunn, in my mind, can do no wrong these days. The Guardians trilogy is probably my favorite trilogy of the MCU. You know, other stuff he's done, like Brightburn, which he produced that. I'm not sure he may have been involved in the writing of that, too, but that was awesome. Because his brother. Loved. Yeah, yeah. And I think he was just involved as a producer, but still, really great in that. You know, he wrote the Dawn of the Dead remake. The Suicide Squad and the Peacemaker TV show. Loved both of those. I was totally surprised by Peacemaker. I was not expecting to like that as much as I did. But, man, I ended up developing much more respect for John Cena as well after watching that. Like, he's...

incredible performer, like really talented guy too. And that never really came through in anything I've seen him in before. I agree. And I think that like, uh, let's see, I saw a fast X or fast nine and he was just very boring in that. And that same year, I think when the suicide squad came out, I loved it. I said, that's the power of a director, knowing your actor and getting the, getting the performance and everything from them.

Absolutely. No, so I cannot wait for this. As soon as he said that he was going to be doing Superman, I was on board. Love the creature commandos. I recently finished that up a few months back. Thought that was a lot of fun. And just what we've seen from the trailer so far, the behind the scenes look, he definitely feels like he's got a handle on this character that no one's really had a handle on in a while in this medium.

You know, my I agree with you. My hesitation was, you know, we talked about this a lot before. James Gunn's done a great job of taking like C-list characters and like kind of tweaking them and redoing them a little bit and making them prominent, much like Peacemaker. But he hasn't directed anything with characters that are very well established. And that was one of my hesitance with Superman. I was like, can he go in there and not like James Gunnify, you know, the characters and just actually be able to find the voice of the characters. I mean, like nobody really knew, nor did they care about the Guardians of the Galaxy before James Gunn. And then he put his spin on it, you know, and now everybody loves him.

now everybody's like i am groot or you know i am james so yeah the um the the gunify yeah i mean you know suicide squad is really fun and it's an r-rated film in it and it um you know it's got a lot of like you said like c-list characters i mean heck most most of the people half of them who die are like d-list characters you know um but There's so much of that. And Peacemaker, too. There's just so much of that crass humor, that potty mouth humor, and a lot of that language. And that's just stuff that doesn't fit in most of the people who surround Superman. Most of the people who surround Superman and Clark Kent are in somewhat of a formal or professional setting. And that's not typically what goes on. So it just leads a little different way. I'm not hesitant about it or anything like that coming up. Like I said, he's...

He is the guy who gave us the Guardians trilogy and, you know, made you believe that all of those all of those aliens exist. And, you know, just leaning into that sci fi. Little Laura, she gets excited. She can't wait to podcast with us one day. My kids are here. It's the same way. Fortunately, they are out for the moment. My son might be back soon, though. So it's all good. He'll probably be charging at some point. This is a family podcast. That's what we try to keep it at. Because, you know, as you notice, my daughter came down. She'll probably come down again. So I'm going to probably come down at some point. That's just what they do. It's how it is. We just roll with it. My idea for the podcast is always like it feels like you're hanging out with your friends and like you're just in the other room like refilling snacks. So it's like you hear everything. You hear the conversation. You feel the tension of the kids bothering them, you know, and you're like just filling up the chips. I'm getting some more chips.

Try getting a three-year-old to stop. Yeah. I know what that's like. Now, I want to say one thing, James. Did we talk about, did I do my rant? I made notes about it, but I don't know if I actually said it. That's how crazy my brain has been. Did I make a rant about directors who work with the same production people?

uh yeah i believe we i believe you said something about that a couple of recordings ago just how i thought he's brought over a lot of the same people that he's worked with on a lot of the because people are you know complaining about the cinematography oh it looks like guardians the costumes looks like guardians well he's bringing his same costumer he's bringing his same cinematographer he's worked with on previous films and it's the crew that he works with that he's comfortable with it's just kind of like how we talked about bbs felt more like a Zack Snyder film because he brought Larry Fong back. Yeah. Larry Fong was his DP on like every other movie, but Man of Steel. And that's why you can watch Man of Steel. I mean, sorry, you can watch BBS in Watchmen and they feel very similar because it's the same director, same costumer.

same cinematographer yeah it's like directors just have their people you know it's the thing that's kind of funny just this day this day and age with comic book movies and stuff they all everybody still calls it a costume you know when in the movie it's not a it's not a costume in the movie it's a uniform it's it's a tactical for some reason it's a suit for for whatever reason so i understand that it's a costume and they're playing you know they're pretending but um that's not the world that they're in it's supposed to be somewhat practical um and i mean just along the lines of the suit i mean You know, I seen recently pop up a couple of times people talking about the difference in Henry Cavill's suit and David Cornswept's suit right now. And, you know, me and you have talked about it and the way that it looks like he is wearing a suit. David Cornswept is wearing a suit and you can see his musculature through the suit, you know, to a degree. But honestly, it's the same amount of musculature you could see on any other version of Superman who is wearing spandex because you can't wear even spandex that's made by a costumer.

that form fits the body to show what they look like on, on the page. So everybody's like Henry Cavill's CGI. Well, and, and padded muscles. Well, no, all of his shirtless scenes were not CGI. That was, that was him. And then, and then in the suit, like I said, even with spandex, no matter how tight they make it, you're not going to get it to look like it comes off of the page. And that's what that suit was designed to look like. It was designed to look and mimic his musculature and, and look like it was a skin tight suit.

so you know what i mean it's it's like a little it's just a little bit of like you're you're you're thinking about it in one way just to have a negative comment about it and same thing with with corn sweatsuit you're talking people are talking about it in one way just to make it negative and not even thinking about like what's going on or what the look they're trying to achieve is on screen um there was a post the other day that said if you were Superman for the day, which one of these suits would you pick? And it was Corn Sweats, Cavills, and Christopher Reeve. And I was like, Corn Sweat. I was like, one. Corn Sweats looks the most comfortable. It looks comfortable. Two, I would feel very rigid and stiff. Like, Cavills always looks very stiff and hard to move in. I was like, and I don't have the body for tights, so I'm going with Corn Sweats. He's like, my body just cuts out Chris Reeves. Yeah, that looks like, the Cavills suit, it looks good on screen, but man, that thing looks like it's really uncomfortable to wear. It just looks like molded rubber. It's just like, nah, no.

His whole workout was he just put the suit on, just like moved his arms. And he was like, it's a workout. That's how he got ripped was just wearing the seat. Walking around in the suit every day. Also, people don't realize that the shirtless scenes he did, he bulked up specifically for those. When he was in the suit, he wasn't that bulky. Yeah, yeah. They trained for peak condition for those few days so they could shoot the shirtless scenes. Yeah, and also dehydrate themselves and all that kind of stuff to get them, you know, that cut. Because really, you know, guys who can actually lift a lot of weights, they don't look that cut. They look like they wrestle bears on mountains. Yeah. That's what James does. I try.

Don't let him fool you. Just don't let him go in the woods at night. You know the Revenant? James was the bear in that movie. You didn't know. But today, we're kicking off. As we are doing each month, we are going back and we are looking at the next iteration of the character. And we are up to Brandon Routh. In today's special episode, I have it titled... Drumroll, please. I just try to quote National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation throughout the year. Brandon Routh, his own Superman.

This is my guided notes that prove that Brandon Routh was not, that it's time to admit that Brandon Routh is his own Superman and not just a Christopher Reeve knockoff. That even in Superman Returns, he wasn't playing Christopher Reeve the way people thought. He is his own Superman. And that Superman Returns is an example of a soft reboot. So that's where we're going to start today. The first, a little bit of a history lesson. I did a deep dive in what I call flyby.

So here, for anyone who doesn't know, it's one of the most convoluted things in Hollywood history, I swear to God, that there was from like early 2000s till Superman Returns was released. There was production going in and there was the film that was supposed to be directed by McG and it was based on the script. It was supposed to be called like Superman, Man of Steel or something, but the code name was Flyby and it's forever known as Superman Flyby. And Brandon Routh screen tested for it. These are two images that exist of him screen testing for Flyby.

um it was the script based on the jj abrams story and basically what was happening is that this time and it's so confusing like i found a really great documentary like fan-made documentary on it that i listened to the other day of just all the changing of like directors from mcgee to um it was mcgee brett ratner and then brian singer and it's like they just kept changing things over and they were gonna go film in australia they had all this stuff going on and they they had a horrible time trying to cast superman And it wasn't until McG dropped out. The film was going to fall into disarray. And by that time, they'd already had a conversation with Bryan Singer. And he stepped in with a new script. And then he cast Brandon Ralph. And then they continued to make Superman Returns. So any just kind of thoughts from either of you about Flyby? I don't know a whole lot about Flyby. Just some of the stuff we've talked about. And, you know, I think I've seen like this image on the left that you've got. But the image on the right, I kind of like that suit from the angle, the coloring, the symbol. Not too bad.

i was gonna say the same thing i'm like why did they use that suit that looks that suit looks tight well we'll uh we'll talk about that a little bit because and that's where we go we'll talk about that um as we dive in but there's we're not i'm just gonna say this we're not done with flyby yet but we are for today was uh was flyby the one with the the kryptonian kung fu and like lex luther was like a cia agent who was a secret kryptonian and all that stuff yes yes yeah i'm glad we missed that i so my biggest uh hate on that script was the and his brother, and his brother was basically overthrowing his brother Jor-El's kingdom, and they sent Prince Kal-El off to Earth. And yeah, I'm like, no, I don't like them being royalty. X that completely out. The whole point of the story is Krypton has to be destroyed. Or you just lose part of the beauty of the story. But here we go, guys. Brandon Routh. There's his Superman. There's his Clark. Now, let's go back to this time. Perry.

How was your feelings towards this? How did you first learn about this movie? How are you feeling? Your hype? Everything. I was totally psyched for this film. I love the Christopher Reeve movies and the fact that Singer was going back to the Christopher Reeve films. And this actually, because of this movie too, we were able to finally get the Donner cut of Superman 2 as well was an added bonus to that.

And, you know, I love the two X-Men films he did, right? He did X-Men, he did X2. I'm a huge X-Men fan and I love both of those movies. So I was totally, even though, you know, this meant he wasn't doing X-Men 3, which was a bummer. I was totally on board for his Superman.

Yeah, I was following the news pretty closely as stuff was coming out. So I remember seeing this promo pic and the costume didn't excite me the most, right? I think even now looking at it now, I still think there are some issues with it. The trunks are too slim. The neckline's too high. The S shield is too small. I think the red's a bit too dark, but I like the new like little tweak on the S shield. I think that's cool. Also the S belt buckle. I've always thought that's kind of an unnecessary design choice whenever people do that. It's like he's got it on his chest. He doesn't need it on his belt buckle as well. We're kind of like putting a hat on a hat there, but.

When we saw that first trailer, I was totally sold with his Superman. And when we saw Superman Returns, I loved it. I saw it maybe three times in the theater. I loved it when it came out. Over time, my opinions cooled on it a little bit. A lot of the flaws kind of come out a lot more. But his Superman is definitely not one of them. I thought he was completely on point in this. Of all the actors who played Superman, none of them was robbed more than Brandon Routh. I agree. He did get robbed. So when they first announced this, I remember seeing the poster.

and being super excited then i remember seeing the teaser trailer that first one that like opens up on the kent farm i think it was my brother and i did a double feature we watched walk the line and then harry potter four and i can't i think it played in front of both of those movies and i you know what i didn't really have as much problems with the costume when i first saw it like i just was excited to see superman on the big screen because this was my first um big screen superman you know and then of course i was like okay over time i was like the shield's too small because he's such a has a long torso and i don't like the t-shirt style high neckline um but i just remember being so psyched and you know this this movie i saw in theaters like five times because it was one of those uh i saw it late at night but then like certain friends would want to go and then it was back when they would do uh 3d but it was only certain scenes were 3d so you'd be watching the movie then it would flash like put on your 3d glasses and i it made it so much more enjoyable and like the 3d scenes were let's see if i can remember him as a child running through the corn

the airplane rescue luther going to the fortress i know at the end with the kryptonite island i think there's a couple more what about the metropolis disaster scene was that one in 3d i i want to say yes but i don't remember um but it was it was exciting and i thought he looked really good you know and there's some things in the movie like we're gonna be doing a live watch here soon and we'll you know talk through those but i was just excited to see superman you know i um I've talked multiple times about how I went to Walmart and found that standee and of like all the Superman stuff. And it was just, it was so exciting. And like you said, any of the flaws in this film, none of them are to Brandon. They're all Bryan Singer.

But here's my yeah, they you know this the suit. I mean honestly with the suit for me It was always just the red was a little too dark and the cape looked heavy The movie was the movie was beautifully shot Brandon. I loved it and I mean I was super excited to see Superman on the big screen because I mean You know me and you were the same age I mean we weren't old enough to see Superman on the big screen You know none of those movies were on the big screen when we were kids We didn't get a friggin big-screen Superman until 2006 exactly and like here's some of the merchandise stuff i found like just like displays and stores and i have a couple more later but like the burger king cups the slurpee cups you know cereal like i just really love the hype for this movie uh but i have the the super i should wear my superman return shirt damn it i didn't think about it i just grabbed one um i used to have one but uh yeah it's um i think it got it got torn a while back so unfortunately i don't have it anymore but yeah i had one i wore it a lot love that thing i had one from hot topic and it was the softest most favorite superman shirt i ever had and my ex fiance took it i hope oh i hope she burns in hades for that um but it's just like i have so i don't have it on me but i bought the belt buckle for this movie it was my favorite belt buckle and i wore it till it broke and then

I found another one that was used and I bought it because I love the belt buckle. This movie holds just a special place in my heart for my Superman fandom. It just came around at the right time in my life when I needed this Superman movie. So even with its flaws, it holds such a special place in my heart. And I like the 3DS on the costume compared to just kind of feeling like it's, you know, we have examples of feeling it's sewn on like a patch. Then we have examples where it feels like it's just screen printed. I like it like this. I don't know about you guys.

I dig the shield a lot. Even now, I think it's a really cool... It's like a slight modernization on the classic symbol, and it works for this movie, I think. And even still, I think I kind of dig the design of it. Now, what did you think of his Clark styling? Just his Clark all around. So, I think...

from what we saw of it, his Clark, and this is the unfortunate thing is like, we didn't get to see enough of it, but what we did see of it, I really liked because I got some problems with some of the other versions of Clark Kent that we've seen. I think Christopher Reeve, you know, love his Superman, but his Clark is a little bit too over the top. And I feel like the whole point of Clark Kent is he is supposed to be this guy who makes it easy for Superman to hide among every, the metropolis, what I call metropolis Clark identity. It's supposed to make it easy for him to hide in, but it's kind of hard to, you know, hide when you are constantly bumping into things and you're tripping over yourself all the time. So that was an issue I had with the Christopher Reeve one. And then we got to like the Dean Cain one. I felt that he was, first off, you know, I'm going to say right here, I'm sure probably some of your audiences want to crucify me, but I hate John Byrne's Man of Steel reboot. With some exceptions, there's something to like about it, but I hate Clark Kent. Yeah. Yeah. I think that his Clark is way too arrogant. And I think the whole.

What I love about Clark Kent is I love it when he's got quiet confidence. He's not showy about it. And Dean Cain was way too showy. He came off as way too arrogant as Clark Kent for me, for my tastes. And then you have Henry Cavill. Didn't really have much of an opportunity, but there was not really much to his Clark Kent performance. Tyler Hoechlin kind of grew into it, and he had kind of this, which I do love Tyler Hoechlin's Clark Kent now, where it's kind of like the ultimate nerdy dad. His Clark you've got to juggle because so much of the Clark that we get is with people that know both sides.

And he doesn't have to play it as hard when he's in Smallville than when he's in Metropolis. And then we get the flashbacks of him in Metropolis. So you got to kind of roll with who he's around with his Clark. Right, yeah. But I think Brandon Routh is kind of what I think Clark Kent should be. He's the guy that you never know is there, right? He's like the ultimate wallflower. And I think that's the perfect trait for an investigative reporter. Because you know that famous scene from The Wire where Stringer Bell, he sees the guy written down. He's like, are you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy? He tears the paper out and he throws it away. I could imagine Brandon Routh's Clark Kent standing in the background there and then going over the trash can and picking it out.

Yeah. I mean, that is the, the wallflower is the perfect because like there's certain scenes that he just, he falls in the background. You don't know he's there. You kind of dismiss him. He doesn't really stand out too much, but I love his costuming for his Clark because I love the tones, like the earth tones for Clark. So now this is part of my argument here. Okay. Look at the suit. Boom. Not the same suit, not even the same glasses and style.

Okay? This is part of my argument that Brandon Routh is doing his own thing. Okay. Now, here we have Jimmy. I never noticed this before, but he's a pretty stylish guy, is Clark Kent. He is. He has a nice suit. Like, his three-piece suit. So, let's talk about Jimmy Olsen. Either of you. Go.

So I thought Sam Huntington was another one of those things that I thought was a fun addition to this movie. I really liked his Jimmy. Sometimes maybe a little bit too over-exuberant with Clark's return, with the cake and all that. But overall, I thought I really liked his take on the character. So yeah, I dug his Jimmy. As of right now, I think he's the best Jimmy Olsen. I think it's between him and Jack from The Adventures of Superman. And I say that as of right now.

I was seeing like Skylar from from the new one. I mean, I do. I like I like Jimmy Olsen in this movie. You know, I love the actor as well. I mean, fanboys and being human and Detroit Rock City, of course, is it was I did think that, you know, he was a little bit hyper. It did. It did lend itself to that idea that he is this young photographer. But also, if he's been gone for the last couple of years, like.

He might have matured a little bit more. Not like he's this cub photographer intern anymore. That's a writing choice, I feel. Direction choice. Sam Huntington is not Mark McClure. He's not playing Mark McClure. Now, I want you to visual it real quick. Outside the Daily Planet right here with Brian and Ralph. Outside the Daily Planet in the Christopher Reeve films. Not the same. Top of the Daily Planet right here.

Top of the daily plan right here. Not the same. Now, Perry White. I think he's a tricky character to get. Because I think in today's modern world, we've been saturated with J. Jonah Jameson. So much that it's almost hard to not make Perry like that. But Jackie Cooper was always my favorite Perry. And Frank Langella, I think, is a very weak Perry White. Almost very forgettable. There's not really anything to his performance. Frank Langella is not playing Jackie Cooper. Okay? No, not at all.

He's very subdued as Perry White. And, you know, I'm trying to figure, because he was brought in after the fact, wasn't he? Because there was someone else that was originally cast for it. I'm trying to look it up and see who he was. He was a later edition. It's very tricky when you're looking at the casting because, like I said, it was Superman Flyby that rolled into Superman Returns, all kind of mixed together, and a lot of last minute changes. I just found it, and it was Hugh Laurie who was originally cast. Yes. That would have been interesting. Man, I would have loved to see Hugh Laurie play Perry White. He would have brought a gravity.

Definitely. Yeah. But he had a, he was, it was a how commitments to filming house through. He wasn't, he had to back out. But man, that would have been something if we could have seen him as Perry White. And I like Frank DeLangella, but yeah, he just doesn't really do much for me as Perry White. Honestly, my favorite is probably, I really like Lane Smith, weird Elvis obsession upside. I thought when I got into the Elvis obsession stuff, it got over the top. But besides that, you know, I really dug Lane Smith. Lawrence Fishburne, I thought could have done a good job, but I just hated the material he was given. Like the whole, you know, the American conscious died with John Bobby and Martin was just, that's not Perry White. Like Perry White's the.

the only one who'd be saying the opposite of that mm-hmm yeah um it was just like i said franklin jello to me was just kind of a very bland um now we're gonna get into lois lane kate bosworth my wife had a great epiphany one day and she's going to articulate that in another episode but i've always ranked kate bosworth at the bottom okay she was my worst lowest lane but then i talked with my wife because she's amazing and she actually pointed out and i agree with her now that amy adams is the worst lowest lane and kate bosworth is just right above her barely but just right above her um but kate bosworth first of all completely miscast she is too young looking like she looks younger than what she is okay like i understand you want to cast young because you want to build a franchise out i get that but she looks too young okay and she is not playing margot kidder okay no not at all

So what are your thoughts, guys, on Miss Bosworth here as our Lois Lane? Yeah, pretty much what you said. I don't hate her as much as everybody else does, but she's definitely not my favorite. I think she has a few moments here. Like, I think she's, she's got some degree of the tenaciousness, but she feels like she doesn't, the script doesn't really give her the opportunity to really push it further. Um, although man, Carrie Russell was considered apparently for this run. She would have been amazing. I think that's, that's what was more under JJ's toolage because, Oh, was that part of the JJ ones? Okay. Because, you know, he created Felicity and she was Felicity. Um, so she was, that's part of when she was in the, in the conversation. Like it gets really confusing, but yeah, she would have been much, much better. She just has the attitude to, she has the gravity to it. Kate, Kate Bosworth doesn't have the gravity.

Yeah, she was never my favorite, Lois, by any means. She didn't even really stand out in any way, really. And I don't know, her willingness to take her child into possible imminent danger was quite questionable. I'm sure she didn't expect to run into Lex Luthor at the time. Speaking of Lex... Yeah, she was too young.

I mean, she doesn't look like she could have a 10-year-old kid. Well, five, I think. Is that all he was? He's supposed to. He's only been five years. Oh, yeah. It's only been five years, yeah. And trust me, after having children and a five-year-old and stuff, you start thinking, hmm.

And that kid wasn't five. They were talking about his grades in gym class. I'm like, what five-year-old is going to gym class? What kind of school? There's no kindergarten gym class where they're getting a grade. Kindergarten gym is recess. Even Selah in her third grade still certain specials gets satisfactory or unsatisfactory. So yeah, there's no grades. Now, speaking of Lex, we have Mr. Kevin Spacey, who's really not playing at all Gene Hackman's Lex.

I mean, this I can push back on because I do think when you take him to the fact that he's been in prison for five years, I think you could see Gene Hackman's Lex becoming Kevin Spacey's Lex, like after what he'd been through in prison. I could see that. So that's my pushback on that. Okay, I'll accept it. I'll accept it. What did you think of Kevin Spacey as Lex?

i loved his lex um you know caveat the dude's a freaking monster in real life but yeah i mean it's it's separating character this is separating artists from the art you know there are people that get brought up that have controversy around them because of things and we are only looking at the performance of the character uh not condoning any of the actor's behavior yeah yeah now i'm not i'm also i'm not the biggest fan of gene hackman's lex luther i like my ideal lex luther is more like the clancy brown version or like the michael mc rosenbaum version from smallville so so the whole like you know smarmy type of Lex Luthor. I'm not a fan of that, but that being said, I thought Spacey brought a ruthlessness to Lex that I thought worked when we're considering that this is supposed to be of a type with the Donner films. So in that vein, I like him as like a modern day version of the Luthor from the Donner films. I think that works. Especially like when he...

And just like some of the lines he has with Parker Posey, like the whole demonstration in the basement with the model. I love that whole sequence. The kryptonite Shiv, when he stabs, jabs into Superman, he twists it and breaks it off. And he says, and he hisses like, now fly. I love that moment too. So yeah, I'm a fan of his Luther.

Yeah, I'm actually a really big fan of his Luther as well. As a modern take on the Hackman version, he did a great job and he was ruthless. But I feel like if they would have given him more of the post-crisis Luther, Kevin Spacey would have killed it. He would have knocked it out of the park. He would be rivaled as one of the greatest Lex Luthors.

in any live action version of Superman. It would have been amazing if it was written differently. And it was amazing as it was. It was just trying to play off of the nostalgia and trying to just bring that to then. Bring 1978 to 2006. Picture the bald Lex Luthor with Kevin Spacey doing Frank Underwood, but with no Southern accent. And it would have been perfect. Okay. You know, it's kind of like, not to jump ahead another month, but like...

If Jesse Eisenberg had just played Mark Zuckerberg, his Lex would have been much better. No, I mean, like him with the, when they first showed that image of him with the shaved head, I'm just like, yeah, I'm digging this. I'm on board. And after seeing him in the social network, I'm like, yeah, he could do this. And then they just decided to go do a riff on Jim Carrey's Riddler for some reason. So I don't know what they were thinking. But I agree if Lex had been given more posts, because I think that's my biggest issue is we're trying, like singers playing with this, like, oh, I'm trying to pick up from the Christopher Reeve Donner films, ignoring three and four, but he's really not. And that's part of what I'm proving here.

yeah unfortunately with eisenberg i mean they were just kind of trying to go that tech bro way because it was the the thing at the time you know so he had to be this tech bro instead of being lex luther and it would have he would have done great as lex luther even with some of the quirkiness that he had but he just it was it was just some odd uh odd choices and and you know the way that they had to go with that little that tech bro kind of side right here ma can't not the same market okay i'm not playing the same off look at the farm okay look at the farm Similar. Not the same. Okay. Now, I had a version of this that had some more slides, but something happened and didn't save right, and I couldn't retrieve it. But I had scenes of Clark as a child. In the Donner films, they're growing wheat. It's wheat fields. In Superman Returns, cornfields. Okay? So not the same farm. Now, we're going to take a little quick sidestep as we transition, okay? This is where it gets a little nerdy, guys. You ready? You guys okay? Yep, let's go for it. Okay. The Multiverse, The Flash, Supergirl, etc. Now.

Here we have the two flashes meeting, showing that the Flash TV series connects with all of DC. Hold on, one second. Is this AI? Because I've never seen this Flash on the left. That Flash does not exist in my memory. You just forgot. I'm sorry. Yeah, I know. I know. But you got to roll with me on this. So Ezra Miller's Flash meets Grant Gustin's Flash. It's important here. Which then brings us to Crisis on Infinite Earth, which was Brandon Rouse.

return to the character and his swan song redemption okay um in this his clark let's look at his clark here very much similar to the clark we saw earlier okay he's now editor-in-chief he in here he mentions his son jason which was the name of the boy revealed to be his son superman returns he talks about how there was an attack and it killed everybody his costume for this being a great superman costume to me this is the number one if not number one number two best superman costume in live action But it's still reminiscent of Superman Returns in little parts. The boots are similar. The bodysuit style is similar. The 3DS. The trunks. I like these trunks better. It felt like they were definitely compensating for the tiny trunks in the Superman Returns suit. But it just feels like someone who's grown and matured a little bit just tweaking their costume. But how did you feel, Perry, when we found out Brandon was coming back and playing Superman again? Oh man, I was so psyched. Again, like...

at that time he was, you know, Christopher Reeve in a separate category, but at that time he was probably my favorite Superman actor. So I was totally on board with him coming back. And we saw that first image of him in the costume and I lost my shit. It was, he looked perfect. Yeah. And it's, and I loved how they, cause they said at the time, they said, it's just, he's just playing kingdom come Superman. So when we actually watched crisis and they'd weaved in all these things, like they brought, we brought in the kingdom come stuff. They obviously made him the, the same one from Superman returns. Cause he mentions his son, Jason, but two.

They also bring in, they also retroactively inserted Superman 3 into the Superman Returns continuity because he talks about how it's not the first time that I've gone crazy and fought myself. So right there, okay, that little bit there shows he's his own Superman. He's not just playing a version of Christopher Reeves. We're in the multiverse. He's his own Superman. You know, he, I wish he would have got more. I hate how they kind of wrote him out in the crisis, but you know, it wasn't his, he wasn't one of the prominent actors. He was just kind of a, he was there, but I love seeing him there.

I wish we would have gotten some sort of... Because they had multiverse stuff in Superman and Lois, so my biggest hope was that we would see some sort of crossover or something with the Brandon Rouse Superman coming into Superman and Lois or something. So I was really disappointed we never got to see anything more with him. It would... I mean, where they ended up going with Superman and Lois being on its own Earth, because that brings us to the next slide, where we have the post-crisis universe rebuild that the Oliver Queen Specter rebuilds. And then this is him back to having the yellow. This is him on the Earth now.

And then that Earth, you know, is created, the Superman and Lois Earth is created out of that. So this is our final image of Brandon as Superman right here doing the classic. Now, love it or hate it, this happened. Not a fan, but it's part of my argument. In the flash, it establishes the Reeve and the Supergirl are still on Earth. Okay. Love it or hate it, hate it and hate it. We all hate it. It happened. It's there. So that shows that their Earth is still alive. Okay. It's out there. Okay.

so right post-crisis i don't have my last point so boom my final point is because of that brandon routh is his own superman he's not in the continuity of dc he was playing his own superman on an adjacent earth he is not just christopher reeve right well the the the multiverse theory as it was anyways um something that we actually just uh which nobody's heard yet we talked about um Superboy going into other Earths. And the idea with DC, especially early on, it was the infinite Earths. And it's all of the... It's every decision that can create a new Earth. It's infinite Earths, infinite decisions, infinite possibilities. So even if at some point Christopher Reeve and Brandon Routh had almost an identical trajectory...

they would split um and and that's all it would take to have a new new earth where he goes his way where eventually he becomes something of a uh a kingdom come type superman uh which wasn't wasn't all the way like kingdom come because obviously when he went kingdom come he he disappeared he isolated himself a lot of other things happened and then in in crisis on the cw uh when when uh kevin conroy played bruce wayne and he had the kingdom come suit on for for bruce that it was it was also a different earth so it wasn't even the same earth where that you know where that superman and that batman were teamed up so i mean that diverges that even as well so exactly so there we have it brandon routh needs he needs to be looked at as his own version of the character that's that is my whole thesis here is superman returns with a soft reboot

in the spirit of what had come before on film. Because everything else that was trying to be remade, or every Superman movie they were trying to take, was trying to take it in drastic different trajectories. You know, we talked about the Nick Cage, Superman Lives Before, and that was trying to take it in different, and everyone was trying to spend some sort of new Superman property out of the death of Superman. And this came along and tried to take it back, but like I said, it is the same spirit, but it is his own thing. And Brandon deserves that respect.

of being his own superman and his film being looked at as just being a reboot i mean much like okay let's think about this with superman 2025 we know it's not an origin okay so you know in a way superman returns wasn't an origin it was just picking up and starting from a point um So, yeah, I mean, honestly, yes, it's the it would be like the first Superman movie. That's not an origin movie. You know, you know, the story of Superman, you know, that he would have potentially probably taken down Lex Luthor and he'd be in prison. And I mean, yeah, they give him the story. If there is any possibility that that Krypton still exists, he went out to look for it. And that's where you get him, honestly, you know, and I mean, heck, that picks up Superman many years down the road farther than we're looking to see where he's at coming up in the new movie this in July.

Yeah, so maybe my speaker's disconnected for a second there, so if I'm going over anything you guys had said, I apologize. Yeah, my whole thing with Superman Returns, and a few years back, we covered this on the show, and we're going to be replaying all our Superman episodes in the lead up here to Superman 2025. But one of the things I said is that it is, if you look at it as a direct sequel to Superman and Superman 2, it doesn't fit. There's a lot of parts that just don't fit together, beyond just all the design aesthetics, like you pointed out, but even just like their story beats, right? The whole idea of...

especially because this is pre-Donner cut, right? So remember, this movie was conceived of before the Donner cut. So if you look at it that way, you have Lois, that means that Lois had to have gone through that amnesia kiss, right? If you're looking as a direct sequel. So that means that she would have no memory of sleeping with Superman. So that creates a big problem when you get to the part about, she obviously clearly knows that Jason is his son because.

I don't know how the amnesia kiss works in that way, because when she gets the amnesia kiss in Superman 2, it seems like she doesn't know anything from the past few weeks. Right. Which is horrible. Which is horrible. And also, yeah, I hate the amnesia kiss for so many different reasons, but if you look at this as a direct sequel to Superman 2, then her thought at that moment has to be, did Superman rape me in my sleep or something like that? So that's one problem, first off. The second problem is just the whole...

just the whole timeline just like you said she is so young so she doesn't look like she could have had been a skilled like i could buy kate bosworth in a superman reboot movie as lois lane like fresh out of college like if you're looking like my adventures of superman type of take or something yeah i could buy her as lois lane there but as the seasoned veteran who's been who was a seasoned veteran five years ago no she's she looks way too young to be playing that part um and just so many things just don't fit together mostly has having to do with the kid stuff especially because you know Richard is under the belief that Jason is his biological son. That seems to be the key that we're given there. That seems to be what he's operating on. So that means that she would have had to have, as soon as Superman left, she would have had to have met Jason, started dating him, and basically have been in a situation where they've conceived a child right off the bat for this timeline to make sense. So the timeline just does not work. So yeah, I've never looked at this as a direct sequel to Superman 2. Instead, I've looked at Superman and Superman 2 as kind of being...

a loose connection point, like similar events happened in this universe that happened in the Donner films, but it's not a direct one-to-one continuation. And which is weird because that seemed to be what, for all of what Singer had talked about, he wanted to do like that. He didn't do it, you know, like he, he didn't. And now at, I do not remember where in the process, um, that, cause originally Jason was supposed to be Richard's son in most of the drafts of it. He was Richard's son, but then somewhere they decided now let's make a Superman son.

And I think it would have been better if it had just been left as being Richard's son. And I think that would have been a much more stronger way to go with the story. Because even if you're looking at things, Lois never really liked Clark. Even Margot Kidder's Lois, she never really took Clark serious and never really liked Clark. He was just there as a friend. She even says, well, Clark, he's Clark. So he's not winning any...

affection beats from her as being who he is. You know, Lois in the, I, you know, I never liked the relationship between Lois and Clark in the Donner films because she was just obsessed with Superman, like a, like a childish girl. She knew nothing about him or anything. And, you know, Clark slash Superman kind of just, you know, he knew it. He pulled on some, some heartstrings and stuff on her. So.

No, I agree. Margot Kidder's Lois has not aged well. She comes off across as way too starstruck and way too smitten when it comes to Superman. And I don't like that version of Lois. Yeah, me neither. I mean, the only close thing to that is Terry Hatcher's infatuation with Superman in that. But in that, you can kind of see that there is this level of attraction and lusting that she has for him.

she's not like that's the only thing um you know she she had some dimensions she had levels you know she cared about clark before she knew that he was superman um you know maybe it wasn't like the whole it wasn't like what we got in superman and lois but um it was closer uh but yeah before that yeah like he said margo she she could almost give you know clark not even you know two seconds out of the day um but as soon as, but as soon as he would, if he would stand up straight and take off his glasses, like he did before he slouched back down in the first movie, if he'd have done that, she'd have just been like, she'd have just been like Clark who, you know? Yeah. And yeah, it's, it doesn't age very well.

Now, Brandon was Superman until he wasn't Superman Returns. It did well at the box office, but it didn't do what they wanted it to do, which is a shame because one, the movie was criticized for having no real action villain. They tried to bring back like Luther still trying to do land scheme plots. And, you know, it really didn't give Superman an adversary that modern audiences in film would want to see. and you know much like x-men brian singer had said well that'll be the sequel you know and brian singer is not an action director okay um so that that needs to be made apparent but yeah even x2 being so much better than the first one the action is not like the biggest or the best compelling part of the movie you know brendan routh was superman up until uh was it 2010 i think is when they officially said because the sequel for man or for uh was going to use like man of steel it was going to have that terminology in it um

I think one thing was supposed to be that the crater he threw into space takes orbit and starts growing new Krypton was going to be was one of the storylines that was tossed around as an idea. But, you know, they were working on the sequel, but it just one of the negatives that went towards the film was they had spent so much money on the stop, start, go for the other Superman projects that they push that money into like the numbers of this budget, wanting this film to do enough to recoup all that. So it ballooned this film's budget past what was actually spent on making the film. and that hindered it and so it was i believe it was in 2010 when they officially announced that they were going to do a new reboot and it looks like singer's contract expired in 2009 okay um and and then singer okay so yeah it's roughly around there so yeah something around there it's it's kind of muddled here in the wikipedia but yeah around 2009 is when his um

Oh, sorry, that was Ralph's contract expired. Ralph's contract for a sequel expired in 2009, and then Singer dropped out of the sequel to direct Jack the Giant Slayer. And then at that point, they kind of decided to pivot and to do the reboot. So Band of Steel was officially announced August 4th, 2011. So that was the official, this is where we're going, we are completely rebooting it. And that's when, you know, really, Brandon was Superman No More.

And also too, like there's some weird things, not only the fact that they folded in all the development hell budget into the cost of this movie, but they had spent their money in some really weird ways in this movie too. Like they, they had like these tiny little, like this, they had like these tiny little, the S shield is like incorporated into so many different parts of the costume, like even on the soles of the boots and all that. It's like, nobody is seeing that stuff. We don't have to go to that level of detail for this. I think they also had like all, they had commissioned like all these different newspaper articles for the newsroom headlines too. And it's just like, this is at some point you are just literally burning money here. You don't need to put all this stuff into it. It's like the,

So another podcast I host is about Japanese movies, and we talked about the film Red Beard that was directed by Kurosawa. And Kurosawa wasted a lot of the budget on things that never ended up in the movie, like making sure they were period-era medical instruments in the drawers of the medical cabinets that are never opened in the movie. Oh, jeez. I mean, next year we'll talk about a movie that just peed on its budget. But you were saying, like, I read something, or I watched, I was listening to something, we were talking about his costume, like Brendan Rouse and how, like, the fabric was. It was difficult, like, to move or something. And I was like, why are you making the costume out of this?

why is the suit being made they had and how many different how many different suits they had to make hundreds of these suits that cost you know high volumes of dollars i'm like then you're obviously making the suit wrong and then you know what's crazy is in some points of the film he wore contacts they try to make his eyes blue or they try to touch them up and then like there's some shots they just didn't do it like like even here like this scene is him as clark his eyes are a little bit different colored than him over here superman um and there's shots in the movie that are prevalent his his hair his spit curl was a hairpiece like if you watch the making of you can see where they had those hair pieces to attach and put in um why wouldn't you just use wax or yeah you know that is not necessary so you know i just it's like you said they wasted money in weird ways instead of being conservative i mean so they filmed in australia and they filmed in australia because it was a lot cheaper okay this is before everything was filmed in georgia um and that was one of the reasons why mcg dropped out and all this but this land where they get they actually paid harvested and grew corn like it was just a field of nothing they actually grew corn

to make the cornfields and everything and i'm like i'm looking around my front yard and walking around ohio like you could literally just come here and film how could that be how could it be i don't understand how it's cheaper to film in australia and grow corn than it is to just do it at an actual cornfield in ohio or in illinois or anywhere in the midwest it does not make any sense that's why they filmed in iowa for man of steel you know hey man that's that's america for you for the last 60 plus years i just feel like you know there was I mean, I know that if you didn't tell me it was filmed in Australia, I wouldn't really know by looking at it. But there is a different feel towards the outdoor scenes and stuff like that than there is in other films. So all in all, like you said, I think Brandon Routh was a great Superman. I've had the pleasure of meeting him once before.

I think he's my favorite Superman actor in the sense that I feel like he still embodies the role and always has a certain sparkle in his eye about it. And you see him pop up on discussions and everything more than a lot of other actors who've played the role in the character. And I think it's always a blessing to see just his love for it, even after all this time. And even after being cheated out of a sequel and kind of being disregarded. Almost forced out over at the CW is what it kind of sounded like there towards the end when him and his wife were leaving. Yeah. Well, I mean, the CW is going downhill. But, you know, I just I love that he got to come back in crisis and kind of give a hey, guys, this is how I am kind of swan song to his Superman. And I wish, you know, James and I don't know if you ever watch Titans. Oh, yeah.

like when they introduced Superman, like that he was there in the last season stuff, James and I both wish they would have just brought Brandon Ralph in instead of stunt casting, like a pair of boots on Titans, you know, and the scene where Superman's teaching Superboy to fly. We both wish they had just brought Brandon Ralph in for an episode and he had been the Superman to Superboy. You know, we both had thrown out when they brought in Naomi, when they were doing that show. And in the first episode, you see like Superman, which was just like a blur, you know, like, well, maybe they could use Brandon Ralph again. Like we both had really hoped that they would find ways with all these DC properties that were kicking around and teasing Superman that, there'd be another chance for Brandon to really, you know, do the character. And, um, yes. And that was, that was at the time where, where, you know, they didn't want to have all these different versions or, and, and you can have, you can have this. Yeah. So we, we lost him there. So I'll jump in while he's getting, um, but yeah, I had the, the same thought, like, you know, when they were doing the flash, that.

Nothing would have saved that movie. Yeah, I would have come and directed it. I would have come and directed it for free. Yeah, Jesus Christ. I would have written it for free too. But instead of doing these weird CGI desecrations of Christopher Reeve and George Reeves and the weird Nicolas Cage thing. And Nick is right there. And Nick even said he filmed scenes for it. He filmed, he actually filmed scenes for that. And they didn't use them. So it's just, you know, there's, you talked about wasting money.

That movie, to me, when you look at how it was made, wasted so much money. From shooting to building the neighborhood to the whole having to use the volume stage to have Ezra and Ezra. How they did that whole thing using that technology. That was just a complete high price tag that didn't need to be. But no, back to what you said. Yeah, when you're doing the multiverse, Brandon could have been the Superman that pops up and things connecting the multiverse and bringing them in. And it would have been something special to see.

So I just, I think he, he got the, he got the, you know, crap into the stick. Absolutely. Yeah. No, again, you know, I maintain no, no Superman actor has been robbed more than he has been. It's just, you know, even, even Henry Cavill got to have, you know, he had his whole trilogy. He got to have his, he got to do two versions of justice leaks and get two different, two different performances of the character in that, in those two different versions too. Cause we're going to talk about, I have a nice little, yeah, he was a different kind of Superman in the, in the waiting cut than he was in the, in the Snyder cut. So he got to do his classic Superman even like Ralph never really got that chance. Cause in.

Superman Returns, although he tried. You can see him trying to kind of do his own thing, but you can also feel the hand of Singer pulling him back and saying, no, make it more like Chris. Make it more like Chris. It makes me wonder if we could just go in and recut that entire movie with other takes that maybe Brandon brought something like, okay, Brandon, do a take how you would do it. All right, now just give me a take of how Chris would do it. And Singer always chose that. It would be awesome to be able to go and see if there's alternate takes that are more him putting his own spin on it.

but we will next month everybody we will be doing our no surprise our discussion on the cavalier and i will end with an interesting um perry was touching on it how um in some ways superman returns and man of steel are intertwined in a battle and i'll explain that more next month but i just feel that you know for everything that's wrong with superman returns story-wise and stuff like that none of it falls to brandon he is great in that movie i do enjoy it for him i haven't watched it in a while um i've had the itch to watch it but i've been holding off for our upcoming live watch because I really wanted to bring as much kind of fresh, haven't seen it in a few years perspective to that. And that's coming up here soon. So final thoughts, Harry, you go first.

I think we said it all. He was robbed. I still would love to see him get a chance to play Superman again some way, somehow. And so hopefully we can see something happening because obviously they're probably going to have some multiverse stuff given James Gunn's obvious affinity for the Silver Age stuff. So maybe we can see him pop up again at some point in the future. Maybe eventually we will get a crisis on infinite earth and he can play like the Earth 2 Superman or something. I don't know. He'd be old enough by then for sure. I'm just at the point where I want my Superman to step back into the light and be like that hopeful icon, not as much the...

beaten down by everyone around them. So, James, final thoughts on the era. Anything to do with the Brandon Roth era. Your excitement of, you know, the Burger King. Your excitement of just seeing Superman back. The summer of 06 is one of the best summers of my life. For different reasons, but Superman being one of them. Yeah. I mean, like I said, it was the first time I got to see Superman on the big screen. I was really excited for it. I had... The first time...

Was I muted? Could you hear me? No, you're good. It froze. I clicked my headphones to make sure. First time getting to see him on the big screen after being a lifelong Superman fan. The movie was beautiful. I still think the movie is gorgeous.

the the cinematography the the action the bit of action that it does have um you know i think brandon routh did a very good job uh i thought his his clark was good he wasn't as he wasn't like bumbling um and uh you know his his superman was he just he had such a genuine characterization a genuine portrayal you know of of just this this quiet confidence and goodness in the character So, you know, I have an affinity for Superman Returns. You know, it's it has, you know, kind of soured, cooled, not soured over the years, but I could still put it in and watch it anytime. And.

was really excited when he came back for crisis. Uh, I wish they had done more, but you know, uh, it was, it was super girls run to be in front. It was super girls turn to be in front. And they did have Tyler coming up as, as Superman adjacent to her. So, you know, he wasn't going to be like a big person. He wasn't gonna be coming out and taking the role of Superman away. Uh, I, I would, I would definitely want to see him play some sort of portrayal again. If there was a right fit for it, I,

I like Brandon Ralph as as Clark as Superman, you know, as as you did say, I mean, he did get shortchanged more than anybody, you know, no matter how badly Henry Cavill got screwed in the last couple of years or the last handful of years or damn near his entire time playing the character because of Warner Brothers and their knee jerk reaction at every single reaction. He still got years and multiple films to play the character in different ways, you know, in and build him up, whereas Brandon did not. Yeah. That's a great place to put it. Perry, thanks for joining us. Go ahead and plug your shows. Let people know where they can find you. So yeah, the things that'd be interesting to most of your listeners are the Superhero Cinefiles podcast, SuperheroCinefiles.com. It's also SuperheroCinefiles.com on Blue Sky. Tyler's been on twice now, I believe. And we're going to be replaying some of his episodes. We're going to be doing in the lead up to Summer of Superman because I'm going to be busy with day job stuff. I am going to be re-releasing all the Superman episodes we've done up until this point. So all those are going to be coming out starting very soon.

So you can listen up to all our Superman coverage in the order that those movies were released in. Tyler's been on one of those. I'm not sure if he's been on this show, but I know you've been on his show. Anthony Desiato's been on one of those too. A bunch of other people, a lot of great guests on for those. Yeah, so a lot of fun in that. And if you like Japanese movies, I also host another podcast called Japan on Film where we talk about Japanese cinema. And I'm an author. I've got some superhero books out there. You can find information about that by going to superhero cinephiles, or sorry, by going to PercivalConstantine.com. That's my author website. Go there. You can even get some free books. I got some free stuff that's available for people. You just sign up and you get some free stuff.

All right, man. Thank you for being here. Japes, as always, way to be great. And remember, look up in the sky.