Building a big, abundant, clean grid

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.volts.wtf/subscribeJane Flegal has worked inside philanthropy at the Hewlett Foundation, industrial emissions policy at the Biden White House, and carbon-removal market development at Frontier; she's now a senior fellow at the Searchlight Institute, writing some of the smartest climate policy analysis around. We cover a lot of ground: industrial policy versus market approaches, what the IRA got right and wrong, philanthropy's proper role, data centers and the case for an infrastructure fund, and behind-the-meter gas, among other things. This is a long one, and spicy!Chapters:00:00 – Introduction03:11 – Flegal's thesis: building a clean grid fast enough to power growth06:29 – Why she rejects degrowth09:27 – The Roosevelt essay: climate as more than a market failure13:30 – Why clean energy underuses its political muscle15:24 – Industrial policy and the green spiral theory of change20:40 – Was IRA the right approach?22:12 – Lily Bermel's paper and the fight over what survived23:21 – What she would have done differently under IRA30:11 – Philanthropy, Silicon Valley, and what government is for33:29 – The epistemic crisis inside environmental NGOs39:09 – The abundance movement and what each faction misses44:16 – What establishment Democrats get wrong on climate46:06 – Why issue polling misleads50:34 – Republicans and the Cold War analogy52:47 – Data centers and the American Grid Infrastructure Fund59:13 – Affordability politics and who pays for the grid1:08:14 – Emissions, behind-the-meter gas, and flexible load1:13:57 – The clean firm debate: storage plus transmission?1:20:14 – Capacity markets, ERCOT, and the case for planning1:24:32 – Utility incentives, public power, and affordability fixes1:35:55 – Permitting reform and the land footprint asymmetry1:41:05 – NEPA reform and the political window1:48:21 – Where fresh policy thinking comes from